#this is about cullen and evangeline in particular

[niofo]

bioware be like, there are some good templars out there! and then point to a bunch of worst templars ever.

if you can't be bothered to actually write a redemption arc maybe just pick one of the few templars that don't have a long rap sheet of being a horrible person.

[bogunicorn]

This is a Good Thread that touches on an issue I find with DAI specifically in a way that might speak to either a lack of funds and development toward dialogue, or the games being rushed or something, and it's that DAI in particular has big ideas for the characters and struggles to stick the landing. They do it a lot, and a lot of those gaps are implied to be filled in the timeskips (either between the main game and Trespasser, or in Cullen's case, the skip between DA2 and DAI). I think it's most egregious with Cullen and Dorian, but you see it in Sera, Cole, Cassandra - kind of everyone, honestly.

They also hide so much in the supplementary materials that game-only fans will just never see. A lot of people don't even realize there are books and comics! And I think that was kind of find until post-DAI, because now there's a lot in the comics, and Tevinter Nights is almost required reading as a bridge between Trespasser and DA4.

Consequently: When Dorian goes home and becomes a magister, he frees all of his family's slaves and becomes a prominent member of the political party that's pushing for progressive changes in Tevinter. Even if he isn't full enlightened on issues of slavery, racism, and class, he's at least putting his money where his political mouth is. And you would have no idea of that specific and very telling action if you hadn't read Tevinter Nights or specifically went to look up what he was doing in the short stories. It's such a demonstration of his change in viewpoint that it honestly should have warranted mention in Trespasser when you talk to him about his father's death and what he means to do afterward, rather than just a vague "you inspired me" thing.

In a way, I wish that Bioware would either go all-in on the supplementary material being necessary and give them more marketing, or take the stance that you have to be able to play the games without ever reading a book or comic and properly write in the important parts. Things like Fiona being Alistair's mother, the full context of Celene and Briala's relationship, more explanation of Rhys and Evangeline, more than passing mentions of things that got a lot of focus in the books. The problem is that the supplementary material is often written after whatever game thing is squared away (such is the case with the Alistair/Varric/Isabela comic - that was written after DAI, but was published before DAI), and to that I say... well, then maybe you need to better take that into account then.

Hopefully the big gap between games tempers this a bit? But I'm not sure. I think we're most likely to get the strongest ties between the Netflix show this winter and DA4, because animated shows also take forever and a day to get made (or at least less time than comics and definitely tie-in books). The TV show has so far kind of been presented as a bridge story that's more accessible than books or comics, at least.

I love DAI and I love all the inner circle members, I just have such mixed feelings about these big, deep character arcs they clearly had in mind vs. what actually made it into the story.

Time for a rant based on a post I read, about Dorian.

Dorian is gay. His character arc is abut that, among other things, but mostly about homophobia, trauma, abuse, acceptance.

He is also racist. He wouldn't think of himself that way of course. He doesn't think slavery is good, but it's also not that bad. Besides, not all slaves are elves, right? The fact that most of them are elves is just, well, inconvenient.

He is a gay man with racist values.

I have met many, many gay people who also happen to be racists. I have held a gay mans hand as he cried about how unfair it is that he's treated badly because of his attraction to men, something he didn't choose, it's just who he is, and then later hear him go off about arabs because he didn't like that the new neighbors "ruined the neighborhood". (They went for a walk outside his house and he didn't like that he could see "immigrants" from his window.) It makes no sense of course, but to be part of an opressed group isn't a vaccine against asshattery.

So, about Dorian. Or about any character, in any sort of media, but right now, about Dorian. He is a character. He is not a real person, but he could be, because there are many people like him. He is a character that many people like, but then he has this very awful trait where he kinda defends slavery. That's not something you can just accept. But you like him! Oh Lord! This won't do! Someone is at fault. It must be the writers. They wrote him badly. Why would they make you like a character who has traits that you associate with bad people? They must think it's good to be racist! If it was another character with other hypocritical beliefs, perhaps we could blame the fandom for making him seem more likeable than he truly is. Anything to avoid the truth:

Characters are part of a plot. They aren't seperate from it. The story doesn't exist without characters. A well-written character brings something new to the table. (Or something old, perhaps, but they can't be ignored.) They aren't people. They represent people and ideas. Dorian represents breaking free from tradition. He is heterodox, rebellious, loud and (seemingly) proud. He is also stuck in his old ways. He loves tradition, as long as said tradition doesn't hurt him. That's fair. Unfortunately, quite a lot of traditions that don't hurt him happen to hurt other people, and this doesn't seem to bother him much.

It's MEANT to make you uncomfortable! Because if you haven't met someone you like who also happen to be a really not that good person sometimes, you haven't met a lot of people, or you are that person. (We will all be that person at some point, that's life, and growth is a fantastic thing baby!) You will meet people who seem amazing, until suddenly they say or do something so far from what you consider right that you won't know what to do. If the first time this happens to you is while you're engaging with a made up story, congratulations. You now have the opportunity to sit with the feeling and really feel it, think about it, be frustrated about it. Because the person that did this to you is just a story. It's not someone you have to work with every day, or a close friend, or a partner, or a family member. If you don't know how to deal with it, you can just pretend it never happened, which is what a lot of people do irl. Sometimes that's the only thing to do, but a lot of times we're afraid of the consequences of speaking up, and many times we're just confused (cognitive dissonance). If you speak up, they might change, or not, but the traits that made you like them will still be there. They will still be cute or funny or helpful or whatever, while also being hateful and mean and rude. You won't stop liking the good things about them, but you can choose to distance yourself from them if you like. It will probably hurt.

Dorian is a good man and a bad man at the same time. He is contradictory. He is a reminder that all of us have biases, that freedom should be for everyone and not just ourselves, and that we're all just one cultural shock away from discovering that our belief system is fucked up. He is also well written because you couldn't pay me to write this at 3 am unless I was bursting with thoughts about this character. I have so many more thing to say about the theme of his story and how well it fits the story about Thedas and all its conflicts but we don't got time for that!

[aurianavaloria]

Character Analysis: Of Cullen and Lyrium

*Disclaimer: The following is my personal opinion on Cullen’s lyrium “addiction.” This is merely my own understanding/analysis of the situation. If it aids in your own understanding, great! :D But it really is just my own thoughts on the subject, which I thought I might share - it’s been nagging me as I work with it in my fanfiction, Metamorphosis, and it helps to see it all written out.*

**Spoiler Warning**

-------------------------------------------

Templars and their lyrium leash is certainly something that is a difficult subject to tackle, whether you’re just trying to understand it in your own head or write about it in your fanfictions. Throughout the Dragon Age games, we’ve been given a few examples of how lyrium affects Templars, and each one is slightly different. Thus, it seems like an inaccurate generalization when the Templars (including Cullen) are collectively painted as “lyrium junkies” or the equivalent of real life drug addicts, because each Templar’s reaction to taking the lyrium appears to be fairly individualized. Let me provide a few examples to illustrate my point:

It is implied that all Templars eventually lose their minds to lyrium at some point in their lives, primarily in the form of dementia that seems to naturally worsen with age. Some Templars, though, aren’t able to handle it very well early on and become “lyrium-addled” (see Garin from Orzammar for a comparison), suffering these effects at a much earlier age. A prime example of this type of reaction is Ser Carroll’s state of mind. It is implied that Carroll’s system was either too sensitive or incompatible with the lyrium on some level when he first began taking it, resulting in his “addled” state that we see in Origins. Before his joining the Red Templars, this state apparently deteriorates even more, including very strong hallucinations. This particular category of reaction is not something I will discuss later, but it is interesting to note.

Another reaction to lyrium is the addiction to the raw power it provides, which is especially evident in the codex entries about Red Templars. This is the addiction to the substance itself and the “high” it produces - the feeling of being able to defend against any and all magic, and perhaps more. Red lyrium seems to have a stronger effect in this area than regular lyrium and gives the Red Templars their sense of invincibility and world-changing power. Some Templars become addicted to this particular effect, and of course, require more and more lyrium to achieve it, thus quickly spiraling into the above effects of dementia as well as paranoia and/or complete insanity, if not outright death. Red lyrium, naturally, has worse ultimate effects, which we see in-game.

Finally, there is the reaction that appears to be no reaction at all...until the Templar in question has no access to lyrium. It is mentioned that lyrium is to be taken “like medicine,” and it seems that some Templars possess either enough natural resistance or discipline (or both) to endure/ignore/grow accustomed the aforementioned addictive effects of the substance itself when they have a regular supply of it available. They can take it day to day without problems and function as normal, at least until age begins to become a factor. However, when it becomes dangerous for these Templars is when their daily allotment runs out. According to Ser Evangeline (Asunder), a Templar can only last about a week or so before the withdrawal symptoms begin, which can also lead to insanity and death. This category is significantly different than the second.

And it is this third category in which I believe Cullen falls.

There are several key points I have noted that make me think this.

Firstly, Cullen speaks about lyrium addicts without including himself in the discussion, especially when talking about Samson and the Red Templars, IE: “I knew he [Samson] was an addict, but this.” One could chalk this attitude up to denial of his own addiction, but that does not seem to be the case judging from the dialogue alone. On the other hand, since Cullen has also voluntarily stopped taking the lyrium by this point, it could also be this simple fact that is being used to make the distinction between them. However, in my view, through Cullen’s own words, a clear line is drawn between his personal experience with lyrium and that of Samson and other “truly” addicted Templars; he verbally separates himself from them. [Side note: It is interesting that red lyrium doesn’t have the same transformative effect on Samson as it does most other Templars, despite his addiction to lyrium in general.]

Moreover, AFAIK, Cullen never once is depicted as abusing lyrium or needing/desiring to increase his dosage amount, nor does he seem obsessed with the power that lyrium provides or the abilities that come with it. Thus, Cullen does not seem to match that second category at all, making it unlikely his “addiction” involves the powerful effects of the substance.

Secondly, from what I understand from the dialogue in-game, Cullen is able to abandon the lyrium “cold-turkey.” There is no weaning that’s ever discussed, just complete and sudden quitting (which happens off-screen, presumably prior to the events of the game, but is mentioned after the arrival at Skyhold). Additionally, he is well aware of what will happen when the lyrium is completely out of his system, and he’s fully willing to face it - his desire to be rid of it is that strong (another contrast to that second category). He sees it not only as a detriment, but also as a chain holding him back to both a past and a future he wants nothing to do with anymore.

Thirdly, Cullen does not fear withdrawal because of what might happen to his person - that he makes crystal clear when the Inquisitor finds out about it. What he does fear is not being able to do the job he swore to do when the Inquisition began. His struggle with withdrawal during “Perseverance” is less about what is happening to him personally and more about his ability to command possibly suffering because of it. It’s not the lyrium itself that bothers him, but the results of the lack of it on his job. Again, the argument could be made that his whole monologue is a cover for his want to use it again (including possible hope that the Inquisitor will give him permission take it when his conscience won’t allow it), but considering how upset he is by it all (and his reaction if the Inquisitor does encourage him to take it), that seems highly unlikely.

So, in my view, Cullen’s “addiction” constitutes nothing more than the endurance of withdrawal symptoms and all the fear and pain that comes along with it. That is not to say that what he is going through is not serious or significant; it most certainly is both. But, IMO, he cannot be classified in the same vein as a “junkie” or a “drug addict,” because all the evidence indicates the contrary. He does not abuse lyrium or show an inability to stay away from it - it is the withdrawals that threaten to cripple his ability to lead that affect him so much. At his most critical moment, all he needs is someone to tell him he can make it through it and convince him that he will be OK (and so will the Inquisition).

Just my two-bits. :P