#this is about Hélène Kuragina

[princesskuragina]

cradling characters with codependency issues gently in my arms and saying you're probably right, no one else will ever love you, no one understands you like they do, you're the only people who have ever been and will ever be there for each other, you'll be alone forever without them, you should probably do murder-suicide about it—

[kinglindwyrm]

wip:-)

[helenekuragina]

FIONA GAUNT AS HÉLÈNE KURAGINA IN WAR AND PEACE (1972)

[officialleotolstoy]

ahem ahem. periodic reminder that hélène kuragina is a victim of domestic abuse and while she did do bad things and you are not obligated to like her it is in incredibly poor taste to make posts about how you wish she had been killed by her abusive husband. send tweet

[agiluvs]

ive been constantly arguing with my irl about hélène kuragina... tough world out there for a hélène apologist :-(

[misrepresentedmorallygrey]

PROPAGANDA

Caroline Propaganda

"this is a new opinion to me personally. However i do like it. Caroline Bingley was a Mean Girl TM to the Bennets, it is true. but like she was only really wrong about Jane and Elizabeth, and that motivation was jealousy and self interest (towards a socially acceptable goal). Jealousy because they were getting attention from her boys, Charles and Darcy, and self interest because she had a plan to secure Darcy's hand in marriage which did not involve either Jane (or Lizzie) getting married. Yes she was rude in leaving Netherfield and dismissing Jane when she got to London. But none of this actually justifies how much hate is directed towards her by the fandom. She was just trying to do what was expected honestly and she wasn't even the worst offender in the story. That would be Whickham. Even Lady de Bough and Mr. Collins are arguably worse towards the Bennet family than Caroline and Caroline is matching her sister in almost all of these offenses. We forgave Mr. Darcy for his part in convincing Bingley to leave, why not Caroline? it seems like she made her amends. AND Caroline even warned Lizzy about Wickham when not even Darcy, who had kinder feelings towards her and more credibility on the issue at large, did!"

Helene Propaganda

"while already being a character whose narrative purpose was basically to show how much leo tolstoy hates women, the fandom makes it so, so much worse, playing up her supposed "villainy" over that of even what tolstoy writes. constantly i've seen people say that she deserved being threatened and almost killed by her husband because she's? a bitch, i guess? like her husband literally throws a marble slab at her and yells "i'll kill you!" at her and tolstoy implies that if hélène hadn't run away he literally would have and i've seen people say that they wish he had solely because their marriage made him unhappy, when the marriage wasn't her choice either. later on in the book, she aids her brother, anatole, in an attempt to elope with the female protag and i've seen people say that hélène was Worse than anatole, the one trying to elope w/ an engaged girl solely because he wanted to sleep with her, because hélène should have "known better" while anatole was just a stupid guy... do they not see how fucked it is to excuse a man's direct actions and blame it on a woman for not stopping him? any defense of her character is constantly met with people saying that she's one-dimensional and not worth defending because she's meant to be an antagonist — without looking at the fact that she's written that way because she represents what Tolstoy, a misogynistic old man, hates in women. with literally the slightest shred of context it's obvious that she is not the villain tolstoy makes her out to be. how a fandom in 2023 shares the same beliefs abt women that a man in the 1860s does is completely baffling"

[nastasyafilippovnabarashkova]

2 (pre-relationship), 6 (general), 7 (love), & 11 (domestic life) <3

-@remedy-ships-it

2. What was their first impression of each other?

Like everyone else who goes to hélène’s social gatherings I think she’s intelligent and witty but I would recognize that she has a lot more to her than her public persona and so my first impression is I Have to get at that woman and find out who she really is. Her first impression would be “who invited that obviously poor student to the tsar’s ball and why is he speaking to me?” and she’s amused. Of course

6. What’s their relationship with each other’s families?

I haven’t made a family in lore but since I’m in the city for school I probably don’t have any family with me. But with hélène’s famillyyyy. Her brother Anatole of course is my bestest friend we are very close. And I knew him before her so that got me into her good graces quickly. The other brother ippolit and I would also get along very well he’s silly. I would get along with her father for appearances sake but also do passive aggressive stuff to him because he’s genuinely awful. And mommy Kuragina I would also be passive aggressive until she proves she’s willing to be Better. But I have hope for her we could have a good relationship I think. However her parents would most likely be predisposed to not liking me bc I’m besties with the least favorite child:-( and bc I’m poor

7. What are their favorite things to do together?

TALKING definitely. At first mostly gossip abt the war/shared acquaintances but I’d want to know about her real feelings and how she’s doing and everything about her life I think we could delightful hours long conversations into the night about her feelings. I’d also love to get her to go do stuff that’s not just Social Obligations. Like go exploring in the woods together on her estate and stuff like that:-)

11. Who likes to dance?

OF COURSE hélène is SO SO SO good at dancing she is ALWAYS dancing she dances with Thee most important people in Russia. And I’m mediocre at it and she would be like >:( I’m not going to be seen in public with a bad dancer and make me take lessons and stare at me coldly if I made a mistake. 🤤❤️

[dolokhoded]

thinking about the kuragin siblings but funny this time cause of how tolstoy's like "hélène could say the stupidest shit you've ever heard and everyone would agree with her" and "ippolit has never said anything comprehensible in his life but people just let him cause he's silly" and the absolute intellectual GOLD of a conversation between hélène and ippolit

[tolstoys-nemesis]

Hélène is a slut

Hey, remember that one shit post I made ages ago about the use of semantics and grammar in the Great Comet “Prologue”? You probably don’t in all fairness because it got a solid 0 notes. HOWEVER, I did say that I had an entire essay draft in my notes and honestly I can’t cope anymore. So here comes my bottom shelf textual analysis! Buckle up, this is gonna be dull.

In “Prologue”, all the named characters are introduced by their name, their relevance to the plot, and most of all, a defining attribute that sets the foundation for their character. For example, “Natasha is young”. Youth is connotated with innocence, and by extension, naivete, and these traits are the “fatal flaws”, to use informal terminology, that drive Natasha’s arc forward. The traits associated with the characters are largely either positive (”good”, “hot”, etc) or neutral/euphemistic (”young”, “plain”, etc). They are also almost exclusively adjectives. There are only four characters whose attribute doesn’t tick both of these boxes: Andrei, Nikolai Bolkonsky, Pierre, and Hélène. The focus of this essay will be on Hélène, as she is an especially note-worthy exception, being the only character described by a single word -- or rather noun group in Hélène’s case (while Pierre is introduced in the “Prologue”, he is not defined there, but rather, his persona is put in question, before being lengthily described, though never defined, in its own song), that is both outright pejorative, and not an adjective (Andrei is defined by a neutral adverb; his father by a pejorative adjective). Hélène is defined by a noun that is not only negatively connotated, but also a slur. It must be borne in mind that the characters are not merely introduced, they introduce themselves, in the third person. The change from a consistent use of adjectives to that of a noun creates a dissonance on its own. However, that change alone would be more likely to feel like a cheap thrill for the audience at best or a mistake on Malloy’s behalf at worst than a cause of tension. However, because the noun is a slur, because it is spoken by the character about herself, and because it is the focus of the sentence -- Amber Gray makes a point of stressing the word, perhaps more than any other performer does for their own character, the effect created is two-fold: on the one hand, because of the violence of the term and the fact that the word is used as self-description, the listener is shocked and personally involved, but on the other hand, the use of the third person gives a sense of detachment and objectivity that is reinforced by the indicative present used in all the similarly built sentences of “Prologue”. The final effect is cathartic.

It is worth asking why Malloy chose to define Hélène thus. After all, her brother, Anatole, who is also married, has a much longer list of sexual prowesses than Hélène and yet not only is he defined by a positive attribute, it directly relates to his promiscuity. By doing so, Malloy reveals a perverse double-standard that was already present within Tolstoy’s work and remains an issue to this day. One could argue that this analysis is irrelevant, as the issue of slut-shaming is never explicitly addressed. However, the difference in attitudes regarding Hélène and Anatole’s behaviours lingers throughout the show. The apotheosis of this comes in the Off-Broadway version of “The Duel”, where Pierre and Dolokhov make light of Anatole’s sexual drive, but a cheeky comment from Dolokhov and his closeness to Hélène is enough reason for Pierre to challenge him to a duel (a very poorly viewed thing to do under Alexander I’s reign). It is often pointed out that the scene from War and Peace from which the duel is inspired takes place much earlier in the story. The change is rationalised by the fact that Dolokhov is the more relevant of Hélène’s two main lovers to the plot of Natasha, Pierre and the Great Comet of 1812, and the inclusion of Boris Drubetskoy as a main character would have made the show more complicated for the uninitiated audience member to follow. However, Malloy also takes this opportunity to introduce a skeptical modern commentary on Tolstoy’s portrayal of female sexuality. This is achieved quite skillfully throughout the show: Malloy leaves his commentary to the subtext, and neither he nor Gray makes Hélène out to be entirely innocent, what with “Charming”, Hélène’s 11 o'clock number, being an almost trance-inducing, spell-like piece of music, and the choice of having Hélène played by a dramatic mezzo (or alto, for non-opera purists), a voice type historically associated with seductresses and evil female characters, are deliberate ways in which Malloy exposes Hélène’s dubious morality.

Dave Malloy's characterisation of Hélène matches the one exposed by Tolstoy in War and Peace, however, he manages to subtly insert modern criticism of the original text, successfully breathing new life into the story.

[princesskuragina]

If you ever feel like asking me how I know something extremely specific that I have just confidently stated about minor character you just need to understand that she told me personally and that I hear divine voices also. Like Joan of Arc.

[youandi-indefiance]

Pierre: You promised Countess Rostova to marry her and were about to elope, is that so?

Anatole:

[helenekuragina]

FIONA GAUNT AS HÉLÈNE KURAGINA.

WAR AND PEACE (1972):  REUNIONS.

[officialleotolstoy]

There’s a post going around about the circumstances of the duel in Great Comet and I didn’t want to sidetrack it but I can talk about the changes all day so here goes nothing

(This isn’t vagueing the people in that post or anything, I really just didn’t want to make it insanely long with my own comments)

One of the things that really surprised me was seeing the amount of people who don’t think Hélène and Dolokhov are having an affair in Great Comet. One of the things I don’t like about Comet is how it removes a lot of the nuance around the duel circumstances. They’re pretty clearly having an affair - or at least some sort of illicit physical interaction - in Comet. I’m well aware the Comet fandom has a tendency to erase Dolokhov and Hélène’s relationship for the sake of Danatole and Maryalene, but that’s a fanon specific thing. Comet canon is relatively clear about the affair, especially in comparison to the book.

In the book, we never get to see them interact. Their affair is just a rumor Pierre hears and it’s sort of up to the readers to decide what we think happened. Dolokhov is still obviously trying to rile Pierre up by implying he’s sleeping with Hélène, but his claims might not be based in reality at all.

This means that when Hélène defends herself to Pierre after the duel, she has some plausible deniability. I’m not going to get into my personal headcanons, but it’s super important that she hasn’t been confirmed to even be flirting with Dolokhov at all. Comet’s portrayal of her as a whole is atrocious, and showing her and Dolokhov all over each other right before the duel frames it as “look at this slut cheating on her husband right in front of his face! Isn’t she so evil! Pierre SHOULD defend his honor!” Which is not fair to her at all. Even if book Hélène was having an affair, she was at least classy and discreet about it. Comet Hélène is portrayed as being entirely in the wrong in the situation of their affair, while in the book it’s very much Pierre’s problem (neither of them acted like saints in their marriage, but I’m talking specifically the duel) and Pierre himself admits this later and even tells Hélène she has nothing to apologize for.

This is part of a pattern Comet (and every adaptation I’ve seen tbh) has of demonizing Hélène to an unfair degree. Tolstoy does this too, but even he gives her some credit here. I get that for Comet, part of it is the compressed timeline and focus on Pierre as a main character but still, I think Hélène could have been treated a lot better. (Literally I will never forgive him for “Hélène is a slut” you could have picked LITERALLY ANYTHING and you thought she would go with that?)

That being said, The Duel is one of the greatest songs in the history of musical theater thank you and goodnight

[computernerdjohanssen]

Great Comet Character Analysis (Hélène)

So, I did end up writing this instead of doing work for school, I’ll probably write the rest of them over the next couple weeks, but this is the Hélène post bc I love her & I feel like she can be super misinterpreted!

Disclaimer: I never saw Comet live; I’m just working off of a couple boots & 4 years of listening to the soundtrack plus a tiny bit of the novel & the official Great Comet book

So, the general characterization of Hélène in Comet is that she’s selfish and cruel, putting herself and her happiness first, BUT when you look a little deeper, you can see how bored and tried of this life she is and how her actions are really motivated by some kind of compassion

So, in War & Peace, Hélène is trapped in her loveless marriage primarily bc her father (Prince Vasili is the worst) wanted to get his hands on Pierre’s title and fortune

she and Pierre were never in love, and in Comet we see how toxic their relationship can be since Hélène constantly mocks him by verbally insulting him or flaunting her extra-marital affairs publicly

 However, Hélène does at least care for her husband, since she fears for his life throughout the Duel, pleading with him to not accept the challenge & screaming as Dolokhov shoots (emphasized further on stage as Hélène grabs at Pierre’s arms and bends over the railings during the duel in grief)

whether you want to attribute this to fear of losing her status or wealth is up to you, but I think it’s more compassion since she later risks her title trying to obtain an annulment from Pierre in the book

also, very interesting is how Hélène only screams for Pierre, despite the fact Dolokhov is the only one who actually gets shot. She only dismisses him, telling Anatole to take him away and then never really interacts with him again until the Abduction

the end of the Duel is one of the most notable points of Hélène being done with this kind of life; how defeated/resigned she sounds when calling Pierre a fool, the aggression in “it’s a gift” wow I love Amber Gray

Of course, one of Hélène’s most notable plots is her very public affair with Dolokhov (the motivation behind the “Hélène is a slut” line for the most part) but honestly, they barely interact beyond showing off at the Opera and during the Duel, Dolokhov is more of a distraction for Hélène than anything else

 in the end Hélène is only portrayed as a “slut” due to her affairs (just Dolokhov in Comet but there were others) but, I still love how Dave Malloy shaped Hélène someone who has embraced her sexuality with pride, she’s a badass, no one can tell me otherwise

Hélène’s main relationship in the show is really with Anatole, her brother, who she clearly loves more than anyone (I’m not touching the incest thing thanks) & throughout the first act, Hélène goes along with/encourages Anatole to pursue Natasha despite knowing better bc she knows it’ll amuse him

she & Dolokhov have clearly dealt with Anatole’s obsessions before, I doubt Hélène knew the full scope of Anatole’s intentions at first, if at all (Anatole takes money from her, it’s never implied she gave it or was aware of the plot to elope but she’s not totally innocent either)

during the Ball, Hélène is the last to stop playing her wine glass after Natasha & Anatole kiss, and repeatedly encourages Anatole throughout the ball despite knowing Natasha is engaged

she coerces Natasha to the Ball on Anatole behalf (literally all of Charming is for Anatole’s sake), she carries Anatole’s letter giddily across to Natasha (with a quick stop via an audience member), etc.

Hélène’s involvement in the whole Natasha/Anatole disaster can really just be seen as a source of entertainment for her, it’s amusing for her to watch her brother act like that and so Hélène encourages it all for the sake of her own enjoyment (“how the thought of throwing them together amuses me”

 when the abduction goes south, Hélène is protective of Anatole and wants to shield him as much as possible (she calls for him during Find Anatole and tries to calm him, then Anatole collapses into Hélène’s lap as Pierre enters their home)

Pierre tears into Hélène once he finds them, but she puts herself between her husband and brother in a last attempt to protect him (in boots, you can see how threatening Pierre is to Anatole & the terror that crosses Amber’s face)

when Pierre first responds to Hélène, you can see Amber cradle Lucas’ face and whisper to him to keep him as calm as possible before pushing him away as Pierre walks towards them

When Pierre gets close, Hélène throws herself over one of the banquettes to protect herself from his path, raising a hand towards him as he passes by (this behaviour implies that Pierre had raised his hand to her before, or that she knows how dangerous his temper can be. Dave actually included this in an early version of the song, referencing how well Hélène knew Pierre’s rage)

When Pierre says “amuse yourself with women like my wife” during Pierre & Anatole, a spotlight shines on Hélène and she stands from the stairs in defiance, looking real pissed about how Pierre believes she should be treated

 “reflection of that base and cringing smile, which Pierre knew so well in his wife”, not only does this line further vilify Anatole but strengthens the similarities between the Kuragin siblings and how selfish Hélène can be too

 As Anatole makes his exit, Hélène runs down the stairs to get one last look & collapses over the railing like she does during the Duel. When the lights come back on, she glares at Pierre for abusing her brother & chasing him away

Hélène then sits beside one of the onstage tables for the rest of the show looking v depressed, and starts crying as Pierre confesses his love to Natasha which is so heartbreaking

in the end, Hélène is a more complex character than most people initially think and god bless Amber Gray for portraying her so magnificently

[andrei-nikolayevich-bolkonsky]

Cool things from seeing the Great Comet live (in no particular order)

SPOILER WARNING!! Also this is based off my personal experience, so it may be different for others! ----- -walking through the theatre onto the stage -old Russian war songs like 'katyusha' being played over the speakers before the show and during intermission -the air raid sirens to tell people the show's starting -In the opera how Natasha being in 'a state of intoxication' involves her seeing Andrey being killed by enemy soldiers -LUCAS STEELE'S HIGH NOTES -Dolokhov's boot strap things that go up his legs -THE ENSEMBLE -Balaga being so utterly chaotic -Anatole's narcissism -The whole theatre having a blast during the abduction while violently shaking their egg shakers -the dumplings -pages of war and peace being flung at you -Dolokhov spitting all over Anatole's face during Preparations -the costume design -Anatole flirting with audience members -Anatole holding the 'WOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAHHHHH' in the abduction for like thirty seconds -Anatole being drunk basically the entire show -Anatole -Hélène's look of terror when the elopement fails -MARYA D. -prince bolkonsky greeting Natasha in his undergarments -Paul Pinto as the servant during the private and intimate life of the house -prince bolkonsky hitting his powdered wig and powder flies out -the opera singers -Everyone wearing golden bear heads while dancing (I believe during the ball) -every single one of marya's entrances -HÉLÈNE. -Dolokhov skipping along the stage while screaming at Anatole -Hélène and Dolokhov getting touchy feely right in front of Pierre -Pierre basically just being in His study the entire show -The whole cast running around the entire theatre, including up in the mezzanine -"TIME FOR CHURCH" -did i ever mention anatole -Denee's childlike innocence as natasha -Andrey appearing in Natasha's memories and she always reaches for him as he runs away -The strobe lights during the duel -Pierre standing completely still to let Dolokhov shoot at him -Pierre hunching over before realizing he wasn't hit -The costume/prop design during the duel -some ensemble members being paired with partners of the same sex while dancing -Natasha poisoning herself with the super electric part of Pierre and Anatole -Anatole's green coat (not purple anymore) during the abduction -Anatole not letting Natasha leave during the ball and they end up kissing -The audience needing to pass Anatole's love letter to natasha -SONYA. -Sonya taking Natasha's letter out of her sleeping hand before reading it -Anatole striking poses when he enters during the opera -the guy who plays the announcer at the opera/the guy who gives Pierre Marya's letter is so good -"what.... whaT.... wHAt.... WHA T?!" -THE BAND/ORCHESTRA -the moments that rely on audience participation -people with eggshakers accidentally moving during a quiet song (myself included) -Natasha and Sonya's reactions to the opera -Pierre basically saying "fuck you" to Napoleon

[persaephone]

me thinking about hélène kuragina and how she deserved so much better