#this episode was so lovely and fascinating and sweet and i love tuvok so much

[leohtttbriar]

ELANI: If Vulcans don't feel anything, does that mean you don't love them?  TUVOK: My attachment to my children cannot be described as an emotion. They are part of my identity, and I am incomplete without them.  “Innocence,” Voyager

for all that spock was conceived and framed as the voice of abstract reason in TOS, the way they created the biology and culture of vulcans is so much more sensual than it seems most star trek productions want to explicitly depict. by my read of this alien conceit, they have to be the most sensual based on the fact that they are portrayed as the most in control. this requires a conscious awareness of the body and its movements in the world and its internal functions and its relationship to other bodies and what it means to sense anything at all, how to categorize it, how to draw meaning from it, etc.

anyway it makes me emotional that this is the language tuvok uses to describe his devotion to his children. it always annoys me when fans and showrunners alike make the “unemotional aliens” into the “repressed aliens”, implying the absence of an emotion expressed is always the utter smothering of it. but this small description (“i am incomplete without them”) could be argued is either about an abstract expression or an embodied one and i think it really tries to imagine what it means to define oneself through Logic. and it’s not less for not being a love “felt” or even named “love at all—it’s interesting and good.

[autisticburnham]

for the ship asks, pick any of these you feel compelled to talk abt!

mariner/boimler, mariner/t'lyn, t'lyn/tendi, tendi/rutherford, mariner/tendi, boimler/rutherford, mariner/ransom

I actually just answered Mariner/Boimler in the last ask!

Mariner/T'Lyn, I ship it

1. What made you ship it?

Empathalogical Fallacies!!!! Mariner being the one to figure out what was going on and knowing exactly what to say to make her feel better? It was wonderful and I hope we get to see more episodes with them paired up

2. What are your favorite things about the ship?

Disaster girl x disaster girl my beloved ship dynamic. The ways they both struggle with emotionality pair together in such an interesting way, they could easily make each other better or make each other worse, but most likely will do both, and I'm so excited to see it happen

3. Is there an unpopular opinion you have on the ship?

I don't think so? I don't think the ship is popular enough to have established popular opinions about it. I will say I hope we get to see more of T'lyn supporting Mariner in the future- there's a pattern with fictional interracial relationships where the black character will provide all the emotional support for the nonblack character and get little to none in return. It's way too early to say that Mari'lyn falls into that, but I really, really hope it doesn't in the future

I'm gonna do all the others too, but under a readmore

T'lyn/Tendi, I'm gonna go with I don't ship it, though I used to

1. Why don't you ship it?

This is difficult to put into a dichotomy of do/don't ship it because I don't not ship it, it's just that my enthusiasm has definitely waned. I certainly wouldn't be mad or say it was out of character if they did get together, but it's not something that I'd describe myself as shipping anymore.

During the break between seasons 3 & 4 I was very excited about the little hand hold, but Tendi's enthusiasm and effort to become friends felt to me like she was ignoring T'lyn's boundaries. Which made it feel a little like the Tuvok/Neelix dynamic, a dynamic which I despise. Tendi/T'lyn certainly aren't that extreme, and it's clear that Tendi's gonna work on those boundary issues, but it was enough to put me off it for now.

2. What would have made you like it?

I still could very easily like it in the future, I just need to see more of Tendi respecting T'lyn's boundaries

3. Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it?

It's certainly full of potential! Like I said, I could easily ship it in the future, and even as it is now, they clearly care about each other and have settled into a sweet friendship

Tendi/Rutherford, again, this is complicated. I don't ship it romantically, I think they should be in a QPR. So I'm gonna hesitantly go with I don't ship it

1. Why don't you ship it?

Parth Ferengi's Heart Place. They were so uncomfortable pretending to be a couple, and while you can certainly read that as "they both like each other and are nervous about the other one finding out," it very much read to me as "neither of them are interested in each other romantically, but they don't want to hurt the other by addressing that because they are so enmeshed in each other, they are partners, but discussing a romantic aspect to it could fuck it up."

2. What would have made you like it?

Again, I don't dislike it and I wouldn't be mad if they got together, but given my current reading of the characters, I think they work best as platonic partners

3. Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it?

Yeah, I love their relationship! They're definitely codependent in an unhealthy way, but it's fascinating to watch

Mariner/Tendi, I have no easy opinions. I don't ship it anymore, but I used to

1. Why don't you ship it?

I was so hype for them for the first season or so, even before the show started. This was one of the first promotional images for the show

and I was immediately like "The girls are looking at each other? Lesbians💚❤️" And I drew fanart for them during the break between seasons 1 & 2, but over time my enthusiasm for them has really waned, just because we don't ever see them together by themselves. When they are together, it's part of the group, so I don't have a concrete dynamic to hold on to for them. And I can only be excited about a dynamic that only exists in my head for so long

2. What would have made you like it?

Seeing them together!

3. Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it?

I love them! I just need more of them!

Boimler/Rutherford, I don't ship it

1. Why don't you ship it?

Like above, we just don't see enough of them together. I can see a version of them I would, but that version doesn't exist in the show as of yet

2. What would have made you like it?

Same as above, seeing them together.

3. Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it?

We do have a bit more of them together than with Tendi/Mariner bc they hung out together while the girls went on their trip with T'lyn, so I will say little fucking freaks (complimentary) about their Mark Twain bit

Mariner/Ransom, I don't ship it

1. Why don't you ship it?

While most of the time I don't have a problem with trek ships of different ranks because most characters are pretty chill about it, they've made it clear Ransom is Mariner's direct superior, so I'm not personally comfortable shipping it. I'm also not overly fond of mentor/mentee ships, which they're starting to fall into. I don't think there's anything wrong with shipping it or anything, it's just not for me.

2. What would have made you like it?

I don't think I could. The entire structure of their relationship puts me off from reading it romantically. I guess I could like it in a fucked up watching a car crash way.

3. Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it?

I really like the growing friendship they have, and they clearly have fun together, even if that fun mostly consists of pissing each other off

[clementine-kesh]

for real though i know i say it all the time but janeway and harry’s relationship is so fascinating. out of everyone in the main cast they’re by far the most starfleet (with the exception of tuvok but being a vulcan he’s kinda got his own thing going on) and it’s clear from very early on there’s a strong sense of solidarity between them because of that. in a lot of ways they’re each other’s connections to home, to something familiar out amongst the unknown, and their relationship very quickly grows into something much more than just a captain and her officer.

it’s shown over and over that harry sees janeway as a parental figure (see the thaw, favourite son) and similarly it’s easy to tell that janeway feels harry’s the son she never had. in disease she even states outright that she feels differently about him than the rest of the crew, more protective and caring of him in a very maternal way. i think it’s very telling that the “bad things happen to harry” episodes often end on him and janeway having a conversation about what just happened. he goes to her seeking guidance, wisdom, and comfort and she’s always there to provide it.

this dynamic is great and very sweet of course but there’s also an element of tragedy to it which lies mainly in two places. first of all, they’re both very similar people, empathetic and ambitious and loyal to an often destructive end. i think that’s part of why they clicked so well, janeway sees a younger version of herself in harry she feels the need to protect. unfortunately, that also means she holds him to a higher standard than the rest of the crew. in a way it’s like she’s looking to him to be an example of a model starfleet officer because that’s something she feels like she’s lost. which means when he does mess up she reacts more strongly than when other members of her crew mess up.

again, disease is a bad episode but it’s very telling of the nature of their relationship. like, tom also has a tryst with a random alien women that causes a diplomatic incident in season one and janeway does not care. meanwhile when harry does it she’s angry at him in a way we rarely see from her! and poor harry’s there trying to get her to see beyond this image of him as the model officer she’s built up in her mind to the person underneath. like yes he messed up but he’s only human and he’s still young. the weight of the expectations janeway’s imposing on him must be absolutely crushing!

the second tragic thing about their relationship is that harry looks up to her for an example of the kind of captain he wants to be someday. which is all good and reasonable except that janeway has the biggest martyr complex in the galaxy and loves taking huge risks, so of course harry’s gonna do the same at every single opportunity in order to prove himself. from almost staging a mutiny to erasing 15 years of history to deploying the janeway maneuver (threatening to blow up his ship) the moment he gets his own command. and poor janeway has to watch the person she feels especially protective of get himself into these dangerous situations because he’s imitating her own self-destructive behaviours, which only contributes to her guilt over the whole situation. it’s a vicious cycle that neither of them can quite find a way to end.

i think the fact that they’re both trying so hard to do right by each other only to have it lead to destructive consequences is what really makes their relationship so compelling. they clearly love each other and have a very deep familial bond but unfortunately they’re in a terrible situation and neither of them are in a healthy place mentally to be able to be rational or normal about their feelings. ultimately, there’s more good than bad in their relationship but it’s the nuance and imperfection that makes it interesting.

[ussjellyfish]

Hey hi! I'd like to request the fan asks (favorite male character, favorite female character etc) for ST:TNG or ST:VOY, please (your choice)!

I had this ages, and then got distracted and it's such a nice ask! (thanks for your patience! and asking!

Favorites from TNG and VOY: (so under a cut but I got wordy)

Favorite Female Character: When I was very little, it was Deanna, because she seemed so nice and had a great smile. I also have a difficult relationship with my mother.

Currently, it's Beverly Crusher, because she has this crappy self-made vibe to her, and she rocked the single mom thing and that's my life so...she's also funny and has this fragility about her that I find fascinating and compelling. Part of her has retreated, she's known loss, she's also so kind and empathetic and caring. She'd be an amazing Captain and should show up in new trek as one.

Favorite Male Character: My favorite TNG character has fluctuated. It was Riker when I was very small because he was funny and kind and I was rather afraid of Picard, he was so serious. Data was my brother's favorite (and I have three brothers so we share things but all having different things). Geordi was middle brother' favorite, then youngest brother liked Worf.

I had a Picard is so soft actually, period when I was really into Picard/Crusher, and he's VERY hard to write because he's so intelligent and thoughtful and well-read.

Now, I'd definitely say Riker, and that's so much because of Jonathan Frakes, who is wonderful and charming and funny, and how Riker is such a sweet family dude in Picard. There's this earnest softness about him that I find so appealing. He's also a good friend and a good lover (so kind) and I have funny thoughts about the time he and Beverly (he was Odan, but still) had sex because they're so siblingy. (tangent). Riker.

Favorite Season: Five! it's five. There are some awesome episodes in 5, Power Play, Conundrum, it's one of my go to favorite seasons, the hair is good, the crew gets to do cool things. (6, 4 and 3 are close runner ups.

Favorite Episode: Remember Me, because it's Beverly out of her element, alone in a very scary place, and she uses her brain to figure it out and saves herself. Damn. Also there's a very nice hug at the end.

Favorite Cast member: Dammit TNG, why do you have the nicest most wonderful cast? A tie between Gates and Frakes. They're such sweethearts.

My Favorite Ship: (Enterprise E so fantastic). Currently, Troi/Riker because they're doing really great things in Picard, and they had this gentleness. They were always okay with each other. When they saw other people, when they were lost, somehow, they always worked it out. Brilliant. (shout out to Picard/Crusher for also being so caring and kind to each other, you can tell they're very good friends.)

a character I’d die defending: Beverly Crusher, in a heartbeat, with essays.

a character I just can’t sympathize with: I am quite over Data he's nice but I'm so done with his pov. There's so much about him and I just...

a character I grew to love: Nechayev, because there's so much sexism behind how she's treated in the narrative and she's really just doing her job, well, at a very high level. Also Shelby, she's really interesting and I would have loved to see her again.

my anti otp: Picard/Data, Picard/Q, I find them both really dull.

my favorite female character: So so many options, it's Janeway, by a tiny bit because I love Seven and B'Elanna and Kes, but Janeway, just because she went through so much and made it in the end. Her autobiography also went a long way towards really bringing her to life for me.

my favorite male character: Tuvok, he's the loveliest space dad, trapped on a ship with ridiculous emotion beings, and he's so dedicated and caring and occasionally funny, such a good friend to Seven and Kes and Janeway and B'Elanna and Tom and he's just great.

my favorite book/season/etc: Four, I think? Year of Hell, One, Demon, Omega Directive, early Seven of Nine adapting, Janeway not that broken yet. It's a fun season.

my favorite episode (if its a tv show): Macrocosm, the flashback Janeway fights viruses and is a badass in a tanktop just always pleases me. It's so Star Trek.

my favorite cast member: Jeri Ryan, had to deal with so much and is so kind caring, funny, supportive, brilliant. All the love for her.

my favorite ship: Chakotay/Janeway was a big part of my formative years of fandom. They're wonderful. I think in some ways it's Janeway/Crusher now, because of how important it would be that Janeway date someone who wasn't her subordinate (and I like they're dynamic, yes I've mostly made it up, but that's fun).

a character I’d die defending: Tuvok, in a heartbeat.

a character I just can’t sympathize with: I loathe Neelix with Kes because he's had so much experience and she's SO young. I also don't connect with the Doctor at all. He's so rude and awful and entitled and self-centered and there are so many episodes about him and I just don't like him.

a character I grew to love: Seven of Nine, I just didn't get her at first. She was cool but the struggling to be human hadn't really clicked for me.

my anti otp: Janeway/Kashyk, so many of my friends really enjoyed it, I find him annoying. It feels self destructive of her.

favorites!

my favorite female character

my favorite male character

my favorite book/season/etc

my favorite episode (if its a tv show)

my favorite cast member

my favorite ship

a character I’d die defending

a character I just can’t sympathize with

a character I grew to love

my anti otp