#this book is my villain origin story

[markantonys]

i'll be interested to see if this holds true for WOT s3 since the s1 finale had so many extenuating circumstances and can't really be included in the comparison, but based off of the s2 finale, i believe that season finales tend to bear the brunt of "It's Different From The Books!" ire because they are the culmination of all the smaller changes made throughout the season.

this turned into a bigger analysis post than i expected lmao par for the course with my blog! read on for exploration of how the 2x08 conclusion of each season-long arc is the the most emotionally satisfying conclusion and/or the most thematically appropriate conclusion possible based on the show's particular version of the story, plus a bonus tangent on the nature of adaptation.

for a finale episode, the writers' prime concern 100% has to be "wrapping up all the season's arcs in a way that feels satisfying with everything that's happened in the first 7 episodes, using the book version of the finale event as the framework" rather than "recreating the book version of the finale event exactly as it is with all the same scenes and themes". the nature of storytelling inherently means that every single person who tells the same story will focus on different themes (just think of how many versions of the hades & persephone story there are), and a good adaptation knows that being internally consistent with its own Emphasized Themes is more important than copying-and-pasting scenes from the source material without making any changes to account for the specific way this adaptation is telling the story.

(but a lot of people can't even get past this first point because they don't understand that this is how adaptations - how storytelling in general - work. like, person B literally cannot tell the exact same story that person A told without putting their own spin on it. it's not possible! unless they're simply reading out the exact words that person A wrote, which can't be done when putting 14 massive books into maximum 64 hours of tv. so many readers like to meet this point with "but why does the books' version of the story need to be changed at all?" which is just a non-starter because a) medium differences require a ton of changes, and b) even if no changes were *required*, they would happen anyway because that is human nature when it comes to storytelling. when it comes to story-listening too! ask a hundred different book fans what WOT is about and you'll get a hundred different answers. rafe & co can't possibly make an adaptation that captures every single reader's idea of What WOT Is About, and nobody in the world could ever re-tell the story of WOT in the exact same way that RJ told it, not even the most die-hard book fan; all rafe & co can do is focus on making sure the show honors the core of the books' story while also telling a good story in its own right, independent of the source material.)

i was a classics major, okay? it gets to me! anyway, corralling myself back on topic.

for 2x08, it's very telling just how far Minority Reader Opinion deviates from the general audience opinion. general audiences fucking LOVED this episode (it's the highest-rated on imdb out of the entire show, currently at a 9.0; most episodes are in the 7-8 range), but a bunch of readers call it disappointing and one of the worst episodes of the show. if it was actually a poor quality episode of television, the general audience ratings would reflect that too (as they do for 1x08, currently at a 6.4 (i personally think 1x08 gets way more hate than is deserved and i thoroughly enjoy that episode, but i accept that's just me)), but they don't.

so what does that mean? to me, it means that 2x08 is objectively a very good episode of television which general audiences found satisfying, but which some readers disliked because it prioritized the emotional & thematic needs of its own version of the story over the exact nature of the falme events in the source material. which is exactly what a good adaptation should do! if you forget the books and just look at the show (which the vast majority of viewers are doing), then every resolution that happens in 2x08 is the most satisfying resolution possible and/or the only resolution that was thematically permitted for that particular season storyline.

egwene: her season arc was about learning to stand on her own two feet and not cling onto her mentor figures or compare herself unfavorably to others. thus, her freeing herself from the a'dam is the most satisfying possible conclusion to her season arc. nynaeve and elayne freeing her in the books is nice, but in the show version, thematically, it would've undercut egwene's Overcoming Impostor Syndrome arc to go "yeah actually it's true that she's not good enough on her own and when it comes down to it she does always need nynaeve to help her out". that version worked in TGH where she didn't have an Overcming Impostor Syndrome arc, but it wouldn't have worked in the show where she did. (but, yes, egwene learning in 2x08 that she doesn't have to rely on others is a double-edged sword, which nicely sets up her later-series struggles with trying to shoulder too much herself and not letting even her friends or partner help her.)

rand: his season arc was about learning to lean on others and not isolate himself or try to protect his friends by withholding his burdens from them. thus, him failing to defeat ishamael until all his friends come to lend aid in various ways is the most satisfying possible conclusion to his season arc. rand defeating ishy singlehandedly in the books is nice, but in the show version, thematically, it would've undercut his Learning That Strength Is In Numbers arc to go "yeah actually it's true that rand is capable of winning his biggest battles all by himself and thus it's no problem for him to push his friends away". given the themes that s2 emphasized for rand, the only appropriate finale outcomes were either success with his friends' help or total failure on his own, and they chose the former. (that being said, rand pushing his friends away is a continuous issue for him throughout the series, so i doubt he's perfectly learned his lesson after 2x08; we shall see!)

interesting to note that rand and egwene have inverse arcs in a way (foils!) and that some elements of their book falme climaxes were swapped, and that the way the show has done it subverts the expected gender roles. typically, men are expected to be Lone Wolves and women to be Team Players, and the WOT books absolutely play into these stereotypes throughout the series (sometimes intentionally as social commentary, sometimes unconsciously as an accepted truth of the world), but 2x08 and s2 more broadly did the opposite with our yin-and-yang co-protagonists. it's egwene who has the arc about learning to be a Lone Wolf and rand who has the arc about learning to be a Team Player. and imo these subconscious gender role expectations are a part of why some readers (esp reddit) got SO heated about "how come egwene can succeed by herself but rand can't", because it feels Wrong to them and Not How Things Are Supposed To Work (they've never questioned why rand can succeed by himself but egwene needs her friends' help in TGH, or all the other times in the books when men succeed by themselves and women succeed by relying on each other). but it's a totally apples-to-oranges comparison because egwene and rand had totally different season arcs and focal themes (but many paralleling & foiling moments within that), and so they each get a conclusion tailor-made to their individual stories.

mat: his season arc was about realizing he's a good, worthy person, finding the inner strength to overcome his worst impulses and temptations, and coming through for his friends after leaving them at the waygate. thus, him getting his Big Damn Hero moment with the horn of valere, getting validation that he is literally a hero, and overall spending the episode doing all he can to support his friends is the most satisfying possible conclusion to his season arc. (but stabbing his bff just as he was flying on a confidence high and trying to save the day was a downer note to end on, so we've complicated his relationship with heroism and set up some more internal issues for him to wrestle with next season.)

perrin: his season arc was about learning to acknowledge his inner wolf but also coming to regard it with fear and to believe that wolf & human sides can't coexist and he must Choose One (.......suddenly being struck by the bisexuality metaphor of it all. nice!) thus, him giving into violence to murder a human to avenge a wolf is.....well, it's pretty upsetting for him and serves to reinforce his growing belief that his two sides can't coexist, but thematically, it's fascinating and sets him up for some really great internal (and external) conflicts in s3. he's just gotten what he thinks is pretty strong evidence to corroborate ishy's claim that embracing his wolf side means embracing the shadow, so he's set up for a season 3 of deep-diving into his relationship with violence and his inner wolf. it's also a neat parallel with 1x08: there perrin's avoidance of violence allowed fain to escape, whereas here his embracing of violence has traumatized him (again), so our poor guy is really feeling conflicted in the pacificism-or-violence question because both sides seem wrong to him right now. huh, i guess perrin's full-series arc is about finding a middle ground rather than one extreme (pacifism/tuatha'an/human) or the other (violence/aiel/wolf). i feel like i've just had an epiphany lmao this is why i love the show! it tells the same story as the books, but tells it in a different way that makes me think about it differently and gain new insights!

nynaeve: her season arc was about learning that she, on her own, as she is today, is not enough to protect her loved ones. this is a tough pill for both her and the audience to swallow! but it's needed for her character, and we see it in the books too. nynaeve has an incredible amount of power, but she's terrified of having that much power and wants to pretend it doesn't exist. she's resistant to change, she's used to being in charge, and she's very "my way or the highway". these are all things she needs to grow out of (or moderate, at least) in order to be able to step up and do her part for tarmon gai'don. she has to learn how to embrace her power instead of being afraid of it or being too stubborn to let other people guide her and teach her, so s2 shows her what happens if she doesn't, first hypothetically in the accepted test (everyone she loves dies because she's blocked and refused channeling training) and then for real in falme (she couldn't help elayne fully or rand at all because of her block). so her 2x08 conclusion being Total Failure is not emotionally satisfying, no, but it's thematically exactly what she needed and will goad her into facing her block head-on next season. thematically, like rand, nynaeve only had 2 options for falme: break her block and succeed, or retain her block and fail, and it was too soon for the former (we gotta let her cook a while longer, plus the story will become too easy if nynaeve, or rand, reaches supernova capability too soon), so it had to be the latter. if the show had gone with a third option of her succeeding without breaking her block, then that would've taught her and the audience that it's fine to leave the block in place and she doesn't need to challenge herself to grow as a person, because when it TRULY matters she can always get around the block.

other characters get appropriate resolutions too! moiraine and lan get to work together to succeed after being at odds and failing on their own all season (rand foils!). elayne gets validation that she is an essential and trusted part of the friend group after feeling like somewhat of an outsider earlier in the season. ishamael getting vanquished and lanfear betraying him only to be betrayed by him in turn is exactly where their mutual mistrust was leading them (and it shows us why it's so important that Team Light be able to work as a team rather than as self-interested individual operators; the contrast between ishy & lanfear looking at the seals together while plotting to betray each other vs. rand standing on the tower with all his friends behind him makes me cry your honor. imagine hating that ishy's defeat was a team effort, could not be me!)

(it's also worth noting that the characters who had the least individual success/victory in 2x08 (nynaeve, rand, perrin) are the ones who will have the biggest individual storylines in s3 (tanchico & moggy, waste arc, two rivers arc), whereas the characters who had the most individual success/victory (egwene, mat, moiraine, lan) are the ones who will be taking a bit more of a backseat (of course they all have their own stuff to do, but none of them is *the* lead character of their TSR/s3 traveling group). this is intentional!)

so there you have it. 2x08 is adored by the general audience, and it's because of this: it gives us some damn satisfying conclusions to all the season arcs (and some exciting and visually stunning battle sequences to boot), and all the viewers who AREN'T beleaguered by "But The Books!", which is most of them, recognize that for the good storytelling it is. i for one will always care far more about the show telling a good story within itself than the show being identical to the books, and rafe & co will too, as they should.

the only downside to the episode is that, yes, it is quite cramped for time because there are a lot of arcs to wrap up. this should be less of an issue in future seasons when the season finale isn't "every single major storyline converges in the same place at once". for example, judging by the "goldeneyes" episode title it seems s3 might split it up so that perrin's conclusion in the two rivers is in 3x07 while other conclusions in other locations are in 3x08, giving each more breathing room. whereas 2x08 had no choice but to stuff everything in that episode into that specific episode because it's not like perrin could just do his falme stuff an episode early and take a nap while everyone else was doing THEIR falme stuff in the next episode, nor could the full falme sequence have been split into 2 episodes since that would have disrupted the flow of the story. the only solution would be for 2x08 to be extra long, which is nice to imagine, but we all know that streaming shows almost never deviate from their set episode lengths and so there isn't much point sighing about "this episode should have been 90 minutes long!" because that just is not on the table, never has been, and never will be. the first step to being able to jive with an adaptation is making peace with the limits of its particular medium!

plus, the only things i might deem "missing" from 2x08 are non-essential (ingtar darkfriend reveal - that is NOT important fight me, it's only important in the books as our first example of a morally-gray shadow-aligned person but the show has already been doing that in spades) or will likely be included in 3x01 (the gang spending some time together to breathe and process and catch up). at the end of the day, the show is always going to need to be paced very very tightly with not as much breathing room as those of us accustomed to entire books dedicated to reacting to the previous book might expect. and 2x08 did manage to pack in a LOT of character work amidst all the action and did a good mix of resolving s2 arcs while leaving some unresolved to carry into s3 and introducing some new arcs/issues/conflicts, all within 70 minutes, which i find pretty impressive. in conclusion, 2x08 my fucking beloved <3

[mossiestpiglet]

oh so its not even subtle about it???? the message is explicitly “if you are fired just shut the fuck up and be happy” ?????

Im fine writing this essay saying “this book is corporate propaganda but also really bad at it” even though that isnt the prompt, the problem is idk how to do that without implicitly or explicitly calling my professor a dumbass

[purplepenguintime]

ok the ending of The Wild Robot… destroyed me but it’s ok! Roz will find her way back to the island eventually! And everyone will be waiting there for her!

Everyone will…

wait-

ROZ ROOOOOOOOOOOZ PLEASE HURRY BACK YOU HAVE LIKE A YEAR PLEASE I CAN’T TAKE THIS-

[anghraine]

I saw a post that was like "P&P is about a man listening to the love interest and unlearning his toxicity" and it's similar enough to many others I've seen that I'm just ... aghhhh.

ffs Elizabeth is not the love interest; she is the protagonist of the damn book and P&P is primarily about her character and development and experiences. If you care more about Darcy's, okay; that doesn't mean it's what the book is about.

Yes, Darcy listens to Elizabeth's criticisms despite the circumstances and that's good. But that framing makes it sound extremely one-sided, yet Elizabeth's arc (which, again, is the main focus of the novel) is contingent on seriously considering what Darcy says and drastically overhauling her conceptions of pretty much everyone involved. The listening goes both ways!

Not going to lie, "toxic" and its variants are losing all meaning for me at this point.

[s-ewell]

"Darling, darling," she murmured, "I live in you, and you would die for me, I love you so." A "Carmilla" piece inspired by Klimt's famous painting "The kiss".

[sejjiplinth]

sejanus and marcus truly have one of the most insane dynamics from the franchise, like i have never been this crushed over a story between two characters in my life. 😭

i was really expecting the movie to take advantage of their past, to bring that raw emotion to the screen. because even after a whole DECADE, sejanus still remembers and cherishes marcus for what he did for him when they were children. marcus helping sejanus with his hurt finger on his own, showing him kindness, never left him. sejanus never experienced that level of generosity in the capitol, i don’t think he was treated that way ever again.

it breaks me reading their scenes in the zoo and during the questionnaire, because sejanus so desperately wants to make amends with him. but marcus has made up his mind, he doesn’t say a word to him, he doesn’t trust him, and he never gives in. the plinth’s are despised in two, sejanus being his mentor won’t change that. sejanus bringing him food, and offering it to him multiple times won’t either. sejanus goes as far as to ask coriolanus to trade tributes because marcus being his tribute is taking that much of a toll on him, while he clarifies that it’d be terrible with anyone, it’s marcus that brings him so much emotional distress.

marcus’s torture being displayed as a message, but also to get under sejanus’s skin… dr. gaul teases him about marcus’s disappearance, (most-likely) knowing they’d already caught him. and looping back to the reaping, strabo buying the district two boy… done only to shove it in his face that he could never go back to two. sabotaging him with marcus seems to be a common theme.

when marcus dies, sejanus honors him. sacrificing himself just to do so. he’d planned to die in there with him, too. and if coriolanus hadn’t been sent in, it would’ve worked. when he agrees to leave with coriolanus, he doesn’t want to go without marcus’s body.

marcus, undeniably, had a very large role in sejanus’s actions, in his resistance, and once he was gone, sejanus doesn’t have a purpose to live anymore. he tells coriolanus in part three that after the arena, he had planned to end his own life, one of his reasonings being because of what happened to marcus. and that was not the first time he’s considered suicide over marcus’s fate, he feels that guilty over him.

sejanus still keeps pictures of marcus, takes the childhood class photo where marcus is standing behind him to district twelve. ma comments on how she knew marcus’s dismay “hit him hard”. coriolanus calling sejanus dramatic over going into the arena, and sejanus reacting as if coriolanus had slapped him across the face.

they met for the first time in district two, then again in the capitol, and eventually in death. just . MY GOD!!!!!!!

[sourscratched]

crumpled pocketful of offbook scraps that are just so wildly clashy and have nothing to do with each other but uhhhh. Enjoy i guess

[verecunda]

Drunk on power as I block yet more people for saying Charles Edwards is too old/blonde to play Celebrimbor.

[moe-broey]

GOD I would HATE to be stuck at a family dinner with them 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 I would NOT fucking survive, the vibes alone would do 1000 points poison damage to me 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

Also JUST. JUST.

THE VIBES. ARE RANCID. SHARENA DARLING YOU DESERVE SO MUCH BETTER THAN THIS (ALFPNSE TOO BUT DEAR LORD. Sharena LITERALLY was just told to Don't Speak Unless Spoken To RANCID. RANCID FUCKING FAMILY)

[theejaguar]

Thinking about GtN again and...

Gideon narrates in 3rd person because she doesn't perceive her own individuality and her status as a person, being abused and having her worth attributed to a weapon - a thing - all these years.

"Gideon" is supposed to be a person, so her mind separates her thoughts and actions and feelings like she's observing the person she's supposed to be.

It's a highly subjective third-person narrative because, had Gideon not been objectified and abused since childhood, it would be first-person.

[aceoffangirls]

Still crying and upset that Bellamy and Clarke didn’t end up together

[nellasbookplanet]

Having finally read the Nimona comic (it’s very good, everyone please go read it) I can’t help but find describing it as being about the power of incredible violence to defeat an authoritarian state, as I've seen done, to be both kind of misleading and ultimately reductive to the story as a whole.

Yes there is incredible violence in the comic and it was in the end what tore down the corrupt system, but it was also Nimona's downfall, destroyed her relationship with her only friend (and led to her (temporary) death by his very hand as he could no longer stand by her and her actions, even as he never judged her, recognized her role as a victim and tried to save her until the end), put countless civilians in danger, and ultimately did little to nothing to address how to actually fix the problems of the system to keep them from returning. In fact, Nimona as a character shows little interest in fixing anything. She suggests killing the king and having Ballister take his place, despite Ballister neither wanting this nor having the experience to pull it off (and would, in fact, only result in replacing one king with another rather than lead to an entirely new system, as is often the case with bloody uprisings). When people start dying from the illness they spread, Ballister wants to immediately stop it; Nimona suggests they let more people die to further rile up hatred and anger against the institution. Nimona isn't a good guy looking to save people; she's an angry, hurt girl looking to hurt those who hurt her and those who have the potential to hurt her in the future (even when Ballister is one of those people). She is the villain the state turned her into.

And that is kind of the point I see the story making. Not 'you need incredible violence to tear down an authoritarian state' as something good and celebratory, but rather 'an authoritarian state will ultimately lead to its own downfall by creating monsters of its own making, and while said downfall is needed the fact that it has to happen at all is deeply tragic because there are no winners here'. Nimona isn't a villain-villain (the true antagonist is obviously still the Institution), but she isn't a hero either. She's a tragic figure with a tragic end that the state brought upon itself by mistreating its people. She doesn't stick around to help rebuild and heal, and she doesn't (to our knowledge) get to see her home become a better place. It's a bittersweet end where the very person who tore down the oppressors is too broken to enjoy the end result. It isn't a story about rebellion, it's a story about the inherent and justified self-destruction of authoritarian systems.

(Writing it out like this, I realize that, thematically, it’s very similar to n.k. jemisin's broken earth trilogy, which you should all also read because it is incredible and not very friendly to authoritarian states.)

[separatist-apologist]

ok from the posts I've sampled so far I understood that you like star wars. but, do you like all of the movies or only 1-6? do you like characters Disney has come up with and what is your favorite? I haven't watched the acolyte but I have a guess that hot angry dude is the one

but my most important question - do you like reylo???

The last time I even HINTED that perhaps reylo was not for me, I got my shit rocked by said shippers. So for legal reasons I LOVE reylo, it's a groundbreaking ship that was massacred by Disney and they are a nice bunch.

I am meh about what Disney's done. A lot of it his nostalgic slop but I feel like you can't say thst without being lumped in with the racist fanboys that never shut up. Star wars is SO BIG and there is so much room to tell new stories and I am tired of all the clone wars tie ins. Let them REST.

I do like 1-6, and 7 is fine. 8 is whatever to me and 9 is unwatchable imo. The acolyte was fun because it was set in the High Republic, centuries before the start of Episode 1 and it's a bummer it was scrapped

[utilitycaster]

I should also note: if anyone is looking for comforting words from me, you are coming to the wrong place. I love character death, drastic changes, combat, tension, and stakes, and most importantly I find the show to outperform fan theories approximately 99.999% of the time. I thought Fair-Weather Faith in Campaign 2 (ie, also got the ominous tweet treatment) fucking ripped. You are anxious. I am merely regretting that it's dark and rainy and I don't want to put on real clothes again to get good snacks. My only concern is that I might need to call it before the break if the break is at like 12:45 am for the third time in a row. I want there to be a cliffhanger that lasts two weeks due to next week being Candela Obscura episode 2. And as always I think creators can, should, and must be more hostile towards their audiences.

[alectology-archive]

people when they miss the fucking point -> reading wot and not getting the obvious critique of toxic masculinity, isolationist individualism and the dangers of authoritative figures presenting themselves as redemptive figures and choosing to idealise it instead.

[gothyanki]

thinking about her (Gith the Liberator)

Thinking about how much I wish she were the deliciously messy, morally complex, and believably motivated protagonist of a Space Lesbians vs. Empire trilogy instead of a flat villain/historical footnote in the Fiend Folio. Unfortunately, DnD.