#thingsfromthesea

[arofili]

I really like your fan casts for Gondolin. It's nice to see some that aren't full of white people. Disappointing to see you pushing the Maeglin being tortured narrative as canon, though. Apart from that, I really like your Gondolin head canons, it's my favorite location in Middle-Earth and you make it feel rich. Cheers.

First of all: It wasn't weird when it was just one ask, but when I got two more, it did get weird. One ask would have sufficed; several made this feel very accusatory. Especially since I suspect that the three asks (well, four, but one got sent twice) are either from the same person or from the same friend group. When I respond to "you" I'm talking to the three people as a group - or, if you're actually one person, just to you in particular.

Secondly: Honestly I'm impressed that anyone is actually reading my headcanon disclaimers because, while I'm having a lot of fun with this project, it's a lot of writing and quite self-indulgent and I'm not so vain to assume people care as much about this as I do.

Thirdly: I do appreciate that you like my fancasts, thank you for that.

And to address the actual question...

The quote you provide is as follows:

Maeglin was no weakling or craven, but the torment wherewith he was threatened cowed his spirit, and he purchased his life and freedom by revealing to Morgoth the very place of Gondolin

There's a few things going on here.

1. It's popular fanon that Maeglin was tortured. It also frankly just makes sense, especially given that this is part of the text where the narrator feels the LEAST reliable to me. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to not remember this specific quote while writing my headcanons down, especially when I've been clear that I am mixing canons and disregarding them when I feel like it.

2. I am not "pushing a narrative" here, and I'm kind of offended to be accused of that. At worst I mixed up canon and fanon, which is hardly a crime.

3. Okay, sure, Maeglin wasn't explicitly subjected to torment. But he was explicitly threatened with it, which while you might disagree, sounds a lot like psychological torture to me. That's not much of a stretch. And given that he was also "no weakling or craven" that threat much have been pretty fucking intense.

(My actual headcanon for this situation is that Maeglin wasn't physically harmed (or at least not that much), because they needed him to go back to Gondolin and not raise any suspicions by looking all beaten up, but Sauron is an illusionist and Morgoth has a thing for curses and neither of them are nice people. It's absurd to me that he wouldn't be tormented in some way - and mental torment absolutely counts.)

4. Just because something isn't explicitly stated within the text doesn't mean it's not worth taking into consideration when you're deciding your personal canon. The implications are so heavy here that I can't in seriousness dismiss them.

5. Maeglin was canonically captured by orcs and taken to Angband. You can't tell me that didn't involve a violent altercation, with him at the mercy of the orcs. Even in the version where he's quick to offer up information about Gondolin to his captors, before he even gets to Angband, he's already been defeated at that point.

6. From The War of the Jewels, "Quendi and Eldar":

The implication that as opposed to Celbin the Moerbin were allies of Morgoth, or at least of dubious loyalty, was, however, untrue with regard to the Avari. No Elf of any kind ever sided with Morgoth of free will, though under torture or the stress of great fear, or deluded by lies, they might obey his commands: but this applied also to Celbin.

(Celbin = Calaquendi, Moerbin = Moriquendi; emphasis mine)

Tolkien might make a distinction between torture and "the stress of great fear," and they are different things, but they're both going to cause massive psychological trauma. Even if we concede that, okay, it's not explicitly stated that Maeglin was tortured, I don't think that means anything WRT Maeglin's guilt. He did not obey Morgoth willingly. He did not have a good time in Angband.

You didn't state in your ask why you're asking about this, but given that you sent three messages and accused me of "pushing a narrative" I'm less inclined to think you just want to know what is and isn't canon. I think the question of whether Maeglin is evil is really what this is about, and that's not an opinion I'm going to budge on.

TL;DR: Okay sure, there's a quote that says he was threatened with torment but doesn't say he was actually tormented. I can update my post to mention this, as I honestly did not remember that specific quote. But I think that it's still very much a possibility, even an implication or a likelihood, that he was tortured - that torture may have been psychological in nature, but it's still torture.

[absynthe--minded]

I'm sorry, SHIPWRECK? Please tell me more about what you think happens to my boy Voronwë?

(this is mostly headcanon. the bulleted list is drawn from HoME drafts, the rest is all me.)

so to start with.

something is Deeply Wrong with Ossë.

like. this part isn't even me extrapolating or anything.

Ulmo tells Tuor that he can't stay near the coast too long for fear that Ossë will overhear their conversation and get angry.

Ingwë, in the earliest information about the War of Wrath, tries to sail from Valinor (I think, the wording was confusing) with Eärendil and Ossë wrecks their boats because he's got some long-standing beef with Eärendil.

Idril and Tuor sail and get within sight of Aman with Voronwë (and sometimes without) and then Ossë freaks the fuck out and Suddenly Storms

Eärendil and Voronwë (in the drafts where he doesn't sail with Idril and Tuor) try and sail without the Silmaril and get wrecked because of Ossë

Túrin tells the elves of Nargothrond that if they flee to the coastal havens they'll be trapped between Morgoth and Ossë

in conclusion: what the fuck, actually, is going on with this guy

so I think that Ossë sabotaged Idril and Tuor's voyage to Valinor, leading to a storm and a wave coming over the side of the boat and sweeping everyone overboard.

the reason that Tuor passed out of history and is no longer accounted among the Edain is because he was trapped under the water on the seafloor by a pissed off vengeful Maia, who proceeded to tell Ulmo to go fuck himself, and started something of an underwater war because he was done pretending to be loyal. Idril washed up on the beach of Tol Eressëa, alone and uncertain of her husband's fate. Voronwë was saved from drowning by Ulmo, who offered him a job of some kind.

I haven't really fleshed out my thoughts on this conflict/intra-oceanic war, but I think it's probably got something to do with the drowning of Beleriand, though I think a more immediate reason why the continent sank was because the Valar kept destroying landmasses to move the coastline closer to the front lines.

[gsglove]

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Another #study of the #cuttlefishbone that has been #watermarked from the #undulation of #thesea

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[fishyfavourites]

This one also

[absynthe--minded]

because @thingsfromthesea also asked about Tuor’s early life -

Annael and his band were... decent? parents?

they weren’t really ever intending to be the village raising this particular child, especially since they were basically living in Mad Max World

Morgoth was actively poisoning the land, just by virtue of having unrestricted access to it, so food was hard to find and there was always the danger of being caught by Lorgan’s people or by orcs

Annael’s folk were in just as much danger as Tuor was - he would have been (and was) enslaved by Lorgan, but they would have been sent to Angband as laborers.

I think they kept him alive, and fed him, and did their best to safeguard him, but I don’t think there was much love between them and their human charge. Unlike with Maedhros and Maglor and the twins, there’s no mention of love growing between Annael’s band and Tuor, and unlike Thingol and Túrin, there’s no guarantee of safety and security or promise of kindness and social standing as a full member of the group (whether or not you think Thingol followed through on this is a matter of interpretation, but these things do exist in the text)

I think Tuor saw himself very much as an inconvenience, even though I don’t think he was ever treated that way directly or told he didn’t belong

It’s hard for me to be pro-Annael when there’s no mention that he loved Tuor and cared about him (imagine Maitimo leaving Elrond and Elros behind if they were captured by Easterlings. You can’t. Because he wouldn’t. But Annael did.) but also, the world is falling to pieces, and everybody is coping with way too much trauma but no therapists. but also, Morwen loved her kids, and later, Tuor himself loved and supported his son even after the Fall. So...

[absynthe--minded]

Do you have any headcanons about Voronwë's relationship with Tuor and Idril? Or if you don't care about him, about Tuor's youth?

I’m sorry I’m laughing because “forgetting Voronwë” is a state I perpetually live in but he’s great

so I think he’s actually kind of unusual in terms of the friends Idril and Tuor make? they’re very extroverted people who love hosting dinner parties and Voronwë is sort of a weirdo who stares at the sky while everyone else discusses the upcoming festival and talks about how space might be an ocean rather than make small talk

he is, however, Tuor’s absolute best friend, and the one person Tuor trusts with the lives of his wife and son. the fact that he’s the one who was charged with keeping them safe says a lot

and I mean Tuor married a psychic and he sometimes speaks with the voice of an ocean god so all things considered this is Not Weird for him

Tuor writes music that Idril and Voronwë duet on to sing, and Voronwë has a horn made of a seashell of some kind that he can play melodically

Idril and Tuor love Voronwë dearly and open their home to him, but they’re not in a triad situation - it’s just not how they are. The married couple cannot fathom being any other way, and Voronwë loves them platonically.

When they were all on the beaches of Sirion, Voronwë would go looking for pebbles and pearls and other random shit and make art out of it

He sailed with them to Aman, or tried to - there was a storm that swept them overboard (another headcanon for another ask, perhaps) and he was saved from Ossë’s wrath by Ulmo, and entered into the service of the Lord of Waters

Living in trans-dimensional ocean halls is very much his ideal best life though so he’s happy

[arofili]

Hi. I'd like to apologize for the ask I sent about the Maeglin thing. It was ruder than I meant it to be. I wasn't any of the anonymous people, but for my own behavior, I apologize. I have a lot of personal stuff tied up with that character and I wasn't acting rationally or nicely. I really do like your head canons and fan casts. Happy to disclose my personal trauma if that would make you feel more comfortable with me following you. Just let me know.

Thank you for your apology, it means a lot. There's no need to disclose your trauma, that's your business and you have the right to your opinion regardless. You're welcome to keep following me if you want.

(Posting this publicly so folks know I bear you no ill will!)

[fishyfavourites]

I think this is the best photo I've ever taken

[fishyfavourites]

This one time I made a video of all the jellyfish I took a video of. 

Aww yiss.

[fishyfavourites]

I love this picture so much I can't even

[fishyfavourites]

And this one yes

[fishyfavourites]

I think this is the best photo I've ever taken

[fishyfavourites]

TELL ME HAVE YOU SEEEEEN THE MARVELOUS BREADFISH

SWIMMING IIIIIN THE OCEAN WATERS

[fishyfavourites]

feel like organizing my entire blog into tags

maybe not