#thingsfromthesea

[arofili]

I really like your fan casts for Gondolin. It's nice to see some that aren't full of white people. Disappointing to see you pushing the Maeglin being tortured narrative as canon, though. Apart from that, I really like your Gondolin head canons, it's my favorite location in Middle-Earth and you make it feel rich. Cheers.

First of all: It wasn't weird when it was just one ask, but when I got two more, it did get weird. One ask would have sufficed; several made this feel very accusatory. Especially since I suspect that the three asks (well, four, but one got sent twice) are either from the same person or from the same friend group. When I respond to "you" I'm talking to the three people as a group - or, if you're actually one person, just to you in particular.

Secondly: Honestly I'm impressed that anyone is actually reading my headcanon disclaimers because, while I'm having a lot of fun with this project, it's a lot of writing and quite self-indulgent and I'm not so vain to assume people care as much about this as I do.

Thirdly: I do appreciate that you like my fancasts, thank you for that.

And to address the actual question...

The quote you provide is as follows:

Maeglin was no weakling or craven, but the torment wherewith he was threatened cowed his spirit, and he purchased his life and freedom by revealing to Morgoth the very place of Gondolin

There's a few things going on here.

1. It's popular fanon that Maeglin was tortured. It also frankly just makes sense, especially given that this is part of the text where the narrator feels the LEAST reliable to me. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to not remember this specific quote while writing my headcanons down, especially when I've been clear that I am mixing canons and disregarding them when I feel like it.

2. I am not "pushing a narrative" here, and I'm kind of offended to be accused of that. At worst I mixed up canon and fanon, which is hardly a crime.

3. Okay, sure, Maeglin wasn't explicitly subjected to torment. But he was explicitly threatened with it, which while you might disagree, sounds a lot like psychological torture to me. That's not much of a stretch. And given that he was also "no weakling or craven" that threat much have been pretty fucking intense.

(My actual headcanon for this situation is that Maeglin wasn't physically harmed (or at least not that much), because they needed him to go back to Gondolin and not raise any suspicions by looking all beaten up, but Sauron is an illusionist and Morgoth has a thing for curses and neither of them are nice people. It's absurd to me that he wouldn't be tormented in some way - and mental torment absolutely counts.)

4. Just because something isn't explicitly stated within the text doesn't mean it's not worth taking into consideration when you're deciding your personal canon. The implications are so heavy here that I can't in seriousness dismiss them.

5. Maeglin was canonically captured by orcs and taken to Angband. You can't tell me that didn't involve a violent altercation, with him at the mercy of the orcs. Even in the version where he's quick to offer up information about Gondolin to his captors, before he even gets to Angband, he's already been defeated at that point.

6. From The War of the Jewels, "Quendi and Eldar":

The implication that as opposed to Celbin the Moerbin were allies of Morgoth, or at least of dubious loyalty, was, however, untrue with regard to the Avari. No Elf of any kind ever sided with Morgoth of free will, though under torture or the stress of great fear, or deluded by lies, they might obey his commands: but this applied also to Celbin.

(Celbin = Calaquendi, Moerbin = Moriquendi; emphasis mine)

Tolkien might make a distinction between torture and "the stress of great fear," and they are different things, but they're both going to cause massive psychological trauma. Even if we concede that, okay, it's not explicitly stated that Maeglin was tortured, I don't think that means anything WRT Maeglin's guilt. He did not obey Morgoth willingly. He did not have a good time in Angband.

You didn't state in your ask why you're asking about this, but given that you sent three messages and accused me of "pushing a narrative" I'm less inclined to think you just want to know what is and isn't canon. I think the question of whether Maeglin is evil is really what this is about, and that's not an opinion I'm going to budge on.

TL;DR: Okay sure, there's a quote that says he was threatened with torment but doesn't say he was actually tormented. I can update my post to mention this, as I honestly did not remember that specific quote. But I think that it's still very much a possibility, even an implication or a likelihood, that he was tortured - that torture may have been psychological in nature, but it's still torture.

[gsglove]

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Another #study of the #cuttlefishbone that has been #watermarked from the #undulation of #thesea

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[arofili]

Hi. I'd like to apologize for the ask I sent about the Maeglin thing. It was ruder than I meant it to be. I wasn't any of the anonymous people, but for my own behavior, I apologize. I have a lot of personal stuff tied up with that character and I wasn't acting rationally or nicely. I really do like your head canons and fan casts. Happy to disclose my personal trauma if that would make you feel more comfortable with me following you. Just let me know.

Thank you for your apology, it means a lot. There's no need to disclose your trauma, that's your business and you have the right to your opinion regardless. You're welcome to keep following me if you want.

(Posting this publicly so folks know I bear you no ill will!)

[fishyfavourites]

I think this is the best photo I've ever taken

[fishyfavourites]

This one time I made a video of all the jellyfish I took a video of. 

Aww yiss.

[fishyfavourites]

TELL ME HAVE YOU SEEEEEN THE MARVELOUS BREADFISH

SWIMMING IIIIIN THE OCEAN WATERS

[fishyfavourites]

feel like organizing my entire blog into tags

maybe not