#these shows are not interchangeable. you cannot say they are just because you don't like the most recent (and currently popular) one

[vulturevanity]

I think everything I want in madoka is in madoka actually, and the other shows have different things I want from them also

[dr-spectre]

RANT POST ABOUT CALLIE AHEAD!!!

I need to get some old and built up feelings out of my chest before i explode into a trillion pieces, if you do not wish to see a LONG rambling about me getting mad and rageful about this important character to me then by all means skip over and have a good rest of your day or night!

If you can handle me getting a bit pissed off and mean then keep on reading!!

This will also be a VERY LONG POST!!! Because I have a lot to rant about. Some of it i have talked about before many times but i need to talk about them... Again..

So anyways. If you wanna move on, that's okay, if you wanna stick around? That's all good as well!!! I highly HIGHLY encourage you to read all that I have to say. Okay? Thank you!

You know, as someone who has put in a lot of time and research into Hypno Callie and the others. What I've come to notice in media is that people tend to use the words mind control, brainwashing, hypnosis, influence, indoctrination, corruption, all interchangeably despite each word having vastly different meanings and connotations and effects.

Brainwashing has been used as an incorrect word to describe a lot of these kinds of plots in TV, movies, games, etc. and it really bugs me personally. Like, if you see something as clearly hypnosis, they explain that it is hypnosis and there is a hypnotic element at play here, you cannot just slap the word brainwashing onto it. It's like if I called a mango an apple you know? Or if I showed you a squid and you called it an octopus and you were REALLY adamant that it's an octopus.

Another example, if there's mind controlled zombies that are being controlled by aliens or something, slapping the word hypnotised or brainwashing onto that scenario is stupid because they clearly explained it in the story with evidence that it's straight up direct mind control and nothing else.

This doesn't just to apply to Splatoon btw, this annoyance goes for every other time a "mind control" plot has occurred in fiction.

I don't wanna sound rude here, I really don't! But guys, do you realise that we have this cool thing all across the world called a language? And languages have words in them!!!! And words have meanings in them that are brains understand and interpret!?

If I say the word "fluffy" what do you think of? "Fluff, fur, cute, huggable, adorable." You think of cute fluffy things, yeah?

If I say the word "hypnosis" what do you think of? A trance like state, a weird altered state of consciousness, maybe even a weird sleep/flow state?

If I say the word "brainwashed" what do you think of? Cults, militarily, experiments, evil, etc.

You guys see why I take issue? You guys see why I am extremely picky and laser focused on people's word choices when it comes to Callie and what happened? You guys see why I get really angry when people who do fuck tons of research into the events of Splatoon forget that languages exist and fail to see things past a fucking Wikipedia article?!? Is it seriously THAT hard for some people to say hypnotised?

I don't even necessarily blame most people for the words that they use, they don't know any better! And you know what? That's okay! I don't wanna get mad at SOME people since that word has been used incorrectly in media for a long ass time. And you wanna know another reason why i don't blame the casual fan or someone not in the know that much too? Because even the SPLATOON DEVELOPERS use brainwashing to describe Callie which is just... from my research and posts, incorrect.

I have yet to find a single person who can confidently explain to me that Callie was actually brainwashed and provide evidence to me to prove their points. Cause all I see is people just saying that "oh, a wiki and an artbook said so, so it must be true." Instead of looking at the actual game and looking at Hypno Callie's personality, behaviour, actions, etc. and comparing them to regular Callie.

Why do you think 99% of people call her Hypno Callie? Like there's a reason as to why her name is that in most circles... Have you ever talked to someone who calls her brainwashed Callie? Probably not...

God... I'm really sorry if i come off as some gatekeeping fan or elitist snob or some shit. I'm not trying to be and i don't wanna be like that. I wanna educate people, make people think of a different perspective and make people think a little more you know?

I'm just getting tired of it all... It affects how I see Hypno Callie and the events of Splatoon 2. I can't enjoy it when some people throw out these certain words, and it makes me feel so sad and terrible. And not in an engaging way, just a sadness that fucking stings my chest and I'm SO SICK OF IT!!!!!

I just despise this notion in the Splatoon community, Inkipedia, YouTube videos, social media and official sources that Callie was kidnapped out of the blue when she was alone and Octavio forced the shades onto her, brainwashing her and removing her memories. I hate it so much. It's something that truly fills me with great sadness and pain and pure anger. Callie is a comfort character of mine and to hear that scenario for her in official canon is just... no. I can't accept it. I refuse to accept such a vile and awful thing. It makes the Octarians more evil and way less sympathetic that way too, it makes DJ Octavio's eventual redemption make less sense because in one game he's this fucking monster and the next he's like "Hey guys imma help you out!" It makes his character incredibly inconsistent at that point.

it makes his appearance with Cuttlefish at the Grand Fest feel less satisfying because there this huge black spot on his character from Splatoon 2 where he apparently did something truly evil and unredeemable. Why would Cuttlefish be okay with standing next to a man who """kidnapped and brainwashed"""" his grand daughter?! I don't care about their history together, if i was Cuttlefish and I heard about that kind of event for my grand daughter, I WOULD NEVER FORGIVE OCTAVIO!!!

Hypnosis by nature is less evil and has more nuance and agency for Callie and the Octarians. Sure it's still fucking bad but not as extreme and dark as brainwashing is. The two terms are so vastly different and using either word willy-nilly is extremely annoying and frustrating to me.

Hypnosis ≠ brainwashing and you cannot prove to me otherwise. You literally cannot mind control someone with hypnosis, that's not how it works. They are so opposite of each other it's actually insane. I DON'T GET WHY PEOPLE USE THEM INTERCHANGEABLY ALL THE FUCKING TIME?!?! WHY?!?!!? Is it a lack of knowledge?!? Lack of caring?! Is it because of how hypnosis is portrayed?!?!

And the whole "Callie was kidnapped/abducted." My god... Do people understand what words are coming out of their fucking mouths?

Callie was more than willing to join the Octarians and she said to them "okay fine I'll hear you out." That is not KIDNAPPING!!!!!!!!!! THAT STATEMENT MADE BY CALLIE GOES AGAINST THE DEFINITION OF THE WORD!!!!

I don't know why they say this in some official sources either, i don't know why Inkipedia lists it on their pages. i don't know why fans keep wanting to push this idea that Callie was kidnapped, is it because an artbook said so and nothing in the game? I don't know why timeline explainers and people who do a fuck ton of research into Splatoon push it too. If Callie was kidnapped you figure she would mention it. But she doesn't!!!! Marie does and says she was brainwashed in the North American (NoA) localization, but of course she would think that and from her perspective she would figure that is the case from her limited knowledge of what happened to Callie.

God I just.... I hate it when people say Callie was brainwashed. I fucking despise it. It makes me so violently angry and upset and EVERYONE WHO HAS A LOUD VOICE IN THE COMMUNITY SAYS IT!!!

This doesn't even impact just Callie. It impacts the entirety of the Octarians as a species and DJ Octavio too. I LIKE DJ OCTAVIO!! I THINK HE WAS FUNNY IN SPLATOON 1! I like his role in Splatoon 3 and how he redeems himself and how he appeared in the Grand Festival with Cuttlefish. It ties back to before the Great Turf War when the Inklings and Octarians were on good terms and now finally that peace is back....

But this enjoyment... this appreciation of his character growth gets ruined because of the shit Nintendo did and what the fanbase did when Splatoon 2 rolled around... I can't enjoy Octavio as a character anymore because of the notion that Callie was brainwashed by him.

I can't look at his inkipedia page because IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH THEY SAY HE BRAINWASHED HER!!!!

And don't you EVEN MENTION the line "I remixed Callie's brain!" My brother in Christ, that is not only a call back to a line he said in the final boss of Splatoon 1, but it's also because DJ Octavio is a.. idk... DJ!!!! A DISC JOCKEY!!!! In the NoA version of Splatoon, Octavio's personality is very loud and in your face, compared to his more sinister and intense personality in the European and original Japanese versions. This serious personality was only given to Octavio finally in the NOA version of Splatoon 3 ROTM where his personality actually matches his Japanese and European versions from Splatoon 1 and 2.

Octavio says puns and musical terms to describe shit in the NoA versions of Splatoon 1 and 2. Remixing by definition is taking a song and altering it to make something new. What is Hypno Callie? A REMIX OF CALLIE!!!! It's Callie but she's more aggressive, emotional and impulsive. And you know where we've seen this remix of Callie before? IN SPLATOON 1!!!! IN THE SPLATFEST DIALOGUE!!!!

Octavio didn't literally mean that he "remixed her brain." via actual brain, washing. He just means that he gave Callie a new twist, and Callie in her hypnotic state was like "okay fine I'll hear you out."

Octavio hypnotising Callie who wanted to help the Octarians anyways out of her own free will, planting suggestions into her head that SHE HERSELF ACCEPTED AS DURING HYPNOSIS, SUGGESTIONS GIVEN CANNOT GO AGAINST THE PERSON'S MORALS AND IDEOLOGIES!!! So that Callie would be more likely to stay in Octo Canyon and not decide to suddenly run off as Callie was under a lot of mental distress and emotion from her busy and lonely life, and allowing Callie to put her influence onto Octo Canyon to help his people and boost motivation, fits more in line with Splatoon as a series and Octavio as a character than the whole "he brainwashed Callie" bullshit that has plagued the internet for 7 years and continuing. Why do you think Callie is so chill to see DJ Octavio come back in Splatoon 3 huh? Why do you think she misses shaven Octarians in ROTM? Why do you think she calls Octarians cute? Hmm... I WONDER WHY?!?!?!

Is Octavio still bad? Yes! Did he use Callie to benefit his people? YES!!!! Was Octavio being manipulative and selfish? FUCK YES!!! HE'S THE ANTAGONIST!!!! I AM NOT RESOLVING THAT MAN OF BLAME!!!! DONT GET MY WORDS TWISTED!!! HE'S STILL BAD! just not unredeemable... because once you say he brainwashed someone and forcefully removed Callie's memories like a pure evil monster, then you have a character who is pretty much unredeemable at that point. You have made him cross a line that he can't turn back from. You implanted these disgusting and disturbingly sexual suggestions about Octavio and Callie and her outfit. Why the FUCK do you want that? Why?! Why do you wanna even suggest the idea that Callie was forced to wear skimpy clothing against her consent and knowledge? Do you know how fucking DISGUSTING AND EVIL THAT IS?!?!?! FOR A SERIES SUCH AS SPLATOON?!?!?! DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA ON WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO FUCKING IMPLY HERE?!?!?!

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?!?! GOD!!!! WHY DO YOU WANT THESE AWFUL THINGS DONE TO CALLIE AGAINST HER KNOWLEDGE AND CONSENT IN THE MAIN TIMELINE!!??!?!?!?!! For AUs I get it, it's your right as a fan to make fanfiction and explore darker topics. I personally won't read it but I won't EVER stop someone from making a darker AU. It has its place in the community and I 100% respect it with all of my heart. I truly respect those who make dark AUs and darker takes on Splatoon because I'm sure it's fun and interesting for some people. To each their own! I actually like hearing my friends talk about Fuzzy AUs and stuff like that, given the time and place, darker toned AUs are something that i find really interesting but I'm not super duper in love with them.

But don't you DARE put these disgusting and sexual undertones about Callie and the Octarians in the main canon. Fuck off. Don't you even try and suggest that the Octarians are this purely evil race that forced Callie into a revealing outfit while she was completely unaware and it was against her consent. And that they just grabbed her... god... Jesus Christ man. Fuck. I hate thinking about that so much dude.

This type of scenario that people push did NOT happen.

THIS DID!

I'm so angry. I'm so sorry for this giant humongous rant. I care a lot about Callie. I only want the best for her. I only want a more engaging and more in-depth take on Splatoon 2. I want to enjoy Tidal Rush, I want to enjoy Spicy Calamari Inkantation, I want to enjoy Fresh Start, I want to enjoy the Bomb Rush Blush remix like how i enjoy Unconscience by Marina Agitando. I want to enjoy Hypno Callie in general, BUT SOMETIMES I JUST CANT AND I GET SO SAD AND MY CHEST HURTS!!!! This has been going on FOR SOOO LONGGG!!

I keep making all these posts about Callie because I still see that kind of bullshit being thrown around. Imagine having a perspective on a character you really love and you try and hold on to it. But everyone else around is pushing that perspective down and you feel so sad and stupid and ridiculous... And so your only option left is to scream and bark and yell....

I am literally gonna keep ranting until I can see the word "brainwashed" in media without having a fucking heart attack. I wanna just be able to enjoy Callie's arc and see it for what it truly is...

A story about two cousins drifting apart... Callie becoming so popular and famous... and lonely... that she became so mentally distraught and overthought everything. She did something incredibly irrational. She went to Octavio and the Octarians. Octavio knows that Callie can be a huge help to him after his loss and so he enlisted her help. And she just said, "okay, fine."

She was given hypnotic shades by Octavio in order to keep her more under control as she was ridden with mental illness and could leave Octo Canyon at any point with her overthinking. But he did NOT put her under total control and brainwash her, he needed Callie's influence for the Octarians, to decorate bases and add her touch into their music. The Octarians became happy and more motivated then ever. He didn't need a drone to help him. He needed, CALLIE.

However... Callie, in the canyon, lost herself, she gave into bitterness, hatred, sadness, anger... She knows who she is, but her memory is so cloudy and muffled by emotion and the shades... She needs help... Proper. Help. You can hear it in the songs found within the Octo Canyon, her reversed vocals sound so sad and deeply emotional...

When Marie arrives, Callie is mad at her, she wants nothing to do with her. But when Marie shoots the shades off of her, Callie is still dazed, upset, emotional, sick, she dances and continues to sing back against Marie's desperate words and pleas... Marie only wants to repair their broken relationship and lend out a hand to her cousin who needs to see the light....

But, when that heavenly melody echoed in that stadium, it was like a rushing tide of memories and feelings flooded into Callie. All of her and Marie's time performing, hosting news, celebrating Splatfests, and arriving to Inkopolis for the first time, came back to her and dispelled the darkness in her heart.

Callie heard the melody and went "wait... This isn't me! What am i doing!? YEAH! I REMEMBER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

And well... The rest is history, the pair healed their relationship over the course of a few years and are stronger than ever.

They fulfilled their fresh start, they helped redeem an angry vengeful man from the past, they inspired the present with Off the Hook, and they planted the seeds for the future in Deep Cut.

and they won the Grand Festival... TOGETHER!

Well... At least that's MY interpretation on things ;). And i want my interpretation to be held strong in my head... I'm tired of getting chest pains man... I'm tired of feeling this sadness and pain... I'm tired of going on Inkipedia and seeing that FUCKING word. I'm tired of being scared to watch YouTube videos focusing on lore and the story of Splatoon because deep down i KNOW they will say that word that has such fucking horrible connotations and meaning behind it...

Anyways. I think I'm done. I think I'm just in a huge ranting mode and I had to get it out, my autism was really acting up and i wanted to vomit this stuff out of me. I hope you guys feel what I'm feeling and if you have a character who you feel similar towards, let me know! Let the anger out. Okay?

Have a Callie for sticking around and actually reading. You're amazing.

[navree]

How do you feel about the Nettles situation? 👀

As mentioned, haven't been watching season 2 and only been "keeping up" with it in that I see what the beloved mutuals are posting about it on Tumblr (and the occasional errant tweet from the fucking bad take brigade that is fandom twitter), so from what I know the Nettles situation appears to be that they're cutting her completely and just giving her storyline to Rhaena? Well the way I feel about that is that I think it fucking sucks.

The big thing for me is that the entire rationale for cutting Nettles and just substituting in Rhaena really smacks of racism. They couldn't be assed to do anything for Rhaena, so they just took the only notable Black character they could find and just went "well Nettles is a Black girl, and now we've made Rhaena Black, so it's the same thing" without thinking about the fact that Nettles and Rhaena are two very different characters with very different places in the narrative and aren't just interchangeable, and that it's fucking weird that you immediately got rid of a woman of color because you already had what you deemed to be a sufficient amount. The lack of care shown to Rhaena, specifically the version of Rhaena that the show created, is astounding, and it feels really weird that it's existing for one of the already few Black women in the show (it's something I've already talked about, that the show made changes without then thinking about how things come across in the real world to the viewing public, like Ryan Condal saying that women lie about being victims of gendered violence or making the Velaryons Black but then putting significantly less effort into them than their white counterparts, or not even thinking about how Targaryen-Velaryon intermarriage would make the current Targs visibly mixed).

Giving Rhaena the Nettles plot doesn't make sense for two main reasons, even beyond the BTS decisions that I outlined above: 1) you can give Rhaena an entirely original and interesting plot if you bothered to actually care about her or in giving Black women something to do in your show 2) Nettles has a very specific impact on the story that cannot be removed without drastically changing the history that's been set in stone.

So, point one: an original Rhaena plot. I've said this before, but it's a very critique that book!Rhaena doesn't actually do anything. She just kinda sits around in the Vale having her hair brushed for a year until the war's over. That's a bit boring, I don't mind the show deciding to change up what she does so she actually has shit to, like, do. But let's look at what the show crafted with the Vale plot before they just punted Nettles to Rhaena. On the Vale's side, the show has created a situation where their loyalty to Rhaenyra is extremely flimsy and quite likely to vanish at a moment's notice. Rhaenyra's husband, her major partisan, was infamously shitty to the Vale, he constantly degraded the region in open court, and then murdered one of Jeyne Arryn's vassals in cold blood, his own wife, for no reason. And not only that, he wasn't even remotely punished for it. Daemon's bad reputation in the Vale for what he did to Rhea Royce, and his treatment of her throughout their marriage, and the lack of accountability in that, should absolutely make it so that anyone in the Vale would be leery about allying themselves with him. Then, Jeyne gives Rhaenyra the Vale's allegiance so long as Rhaenyra sends a battle-ready dragon and dragon-rider to protect them in case the Greens decide to invade and force their submission. But after Rhaenyra's envoy promises her that, Rhaenyra backtracks, and instead sends her a teenager and three little kids and a baby dragon and some dragon eggs. That is insulting, that is a violation of the promised agreement that came at the cost of the Vale's allegiance to Rhaenyra, that alliance should absolutely be on the rocks. It makes sense for Jeyne to be as annoyed with the Blacks as she is in the show. And on Rhaena's side, she doesn't have a dragon at all, and she is undervalued in her family as a result. Her father straight up doesn't care about her and neglects her because she doesn't have that symbol of Targaryen supremacy within her, her sister may love her but doesn't value her much as a person (considering Baela is absolutely fine with Rhaena getting sent away to play nursemaid and doesn't even bring up Rhaena being the Lady of Driftmark even tho she has a claim through Laena and Hell, even being Luke's intended), Rhaenyra literally doesn't see her as worthy of keeping around since she just shunts her off not even for her own safety, but so that she can ensure the safety of Rhaenyra's sons. And that's weighing on Rhaena, it's been weighing on her since she was a child, she's only ten when she talks to Laena about how Daemon doesn't love her because she doesn't have a dragon, and those feelings have only grown as she has, and as more indignities have been heaped on her.

So you have Rhaena, who isn't really valued by the people around her or considered necessary for the war effort, in an area where the emotions are ripe for turning against Rhaenyra and maybe even siding with the Greens. So why not have Rhaena change it? Instead of having the Vale stay loyal for no reason in spite of their very legitimate issues, have Rhaena forge a relationship with Jeyne. Have them get a personal connection to get Jeyne more invested in the Blacks' victory. Have Rhaena work essentially in administration, use her connection to the parties on Dragonstone to enact more firm promises for the Vale, in writing. Have Rhaena become essential to Rhaenyra getting to keep a foothold in Westeros, since most of the South (should be) allied to the Greens, the Riverlands are under Daemon's purview yes but he's not trustworthy enough for that to be an assurance, and the North is loyal to Rhaenyra but still taking its sweetass time doing anything. Have Rhaena find her own worth within in her in the way she helps the war effort not with a dragon, not with the way others have told her she could be useful and necessary, but with a way she's found for herself. Have her grow internally in the process, and become more confident and self-assured. There's a plot to give Rhaena in the Vale, but it's not Nettles's, it should be her own, crafted out of a care for her as a character and to give her a story of her own rather than slap someone else's to her because you were being lazy.

And speaking of Nettles, cutting her is ridiculous because she is absolutely essential. It's because of Nettles that, ultimately, things end the way that they do for a lot of characters. And that is because of her very specific connection to Daemon. Nettles joins up with Daemon after the Blacks take King's Landing, and it's soon very clear that these two have a very, very strong connection ('oh because she's his daughter' considering that Daemon seems incapable of loving any of his children, nah, I've always been in the romance camp for these two), especially on Daemon's part. And that strong connection, combined with Rhaenyra's distrust of dragonseeds, leads Rhaenyra to demand that Lord Mooton break guest right and kill Nettles, to stop her from "stealing" Daemon and then betraying Rhaenyra the way Hugh and Ulf did. Daemon finds out about this and, to save Nettles's life, helps her escape, in a goodbye that left Nettles upset and Daemon evidently heartbroken, considering that Caraxes starts screeching like a banshee as they leave. And that is what then spurs Daemon not to return to Rhaenyra's side, but to instead strike out and try to kill Aemond, and thus leads him to his own death in turn. Which leads to a loss of power for Rhaenyra which culminates in her fleeing King's Landing for Dragonstone where she's killed which then leads to Aegon returning to King's Landing only for the Northerners to attack which leads to him dying (I'm a proponent of suicide theory) which leads to Aegon III becoming King and etc etc.

You see how Nettles's existence starts the ball rolling for what becomes the next two hundred years of Targaryen, and by extension Westerosi, history? She's a very specific person, and you can't replace her with anyone else. Daemon has shown absolutely no care or consideration at all for his children by Laena, so there's no reason for him to be anywhere near as invested in Rhaena as he was with Nettles ('oh but Rhaena would have a dragon' well Baela already has a dragon and that didn't stop him from punting her to Driftmark so he could devote his attention only to his pureblood Valyrian sons and still not giving any kind of a shit about her at all, he's a bad father even if his kids have dragons). Rhaenyra's mistrust of Nettles is fueled by her mistrust of dragonseeds, but Rhaena wouldn't be a dragonseed, she's Daemon's trueborn daughter, so that's not an issue. Nor is Rhaenyra necessarily gonna be worried that Daemon is falling in love with his own daughter and thus falling out of love with her, or then try to go "well then the only option is for me to murder Daemon's daughter" as a result. So there'd be no strong connection motivating Daemon to value Rhaena so highly, there'd be no betrayal from Rhaenyra that gets Rhaena sent away and motivates Daemon to pull away from Rhaenyra and instead keep on fighting even if it means his death, and with that, there's no way any of the historical facts can proceed the way that they do. Nettles can't be Rhaena, she needs to be Nettles. She is her own person, with her own specific impact on the narrative and the characters within. And yes, F&B is a narrative, it's formatted like a history book which makes for good thought experiments and injects ambiguity within certain elements, but it's still a fictional story dreamed up by George, who then put characters in that story for a reason.

Not to mention, Nettles and Rhaena are very different characters? Like, they have incredibly different personalities. Rhaena's we haven't seen much of, because the show has suffered in characterizing the younger TB characters as a whole and is also just really bad in characterizing the Velaryons specifically (hm suspicious). But based on what we have, Rhaena seems a bit quiet, a bit subdued, prone to shyness, and generally favoring a more traditional femininity than we see from even Baela. Nettles meanwhile is coarse and rough and loud and unapologetic in that, she's not timid but in fact fearless and bold. Rhaena is a highborn daughter of a prince, stepdaughter to a queen. Nettles is a homeless whore's daughter who grew up poor and on thin means struggling to survive. Which is why Nettles is able to claim Sheepstealer, having to grow up the way she did with the experiences she had gave her an industriousness and a way of problem-solving that allowed her to figure out how to win over Sheepstealer, a wild unclaimed dragon. She used her wits, as she likely so often had to, growing up the way she did, to figure out that Sheepstealer might not like people but he likes a certain kind of food, and thus create an association in his head of Nettles=that food he likes by bringing him sheep until she gained enough of his trust to claim him as a dragon to ride. Rhaena doesn't have that industriousness because Rhaena, like 90% of highborn nobles, has never had to actually fight for anything ever. She's never had to really problem solve in a blunt way for anything, let alone her own survival, that might then inform how she might try to do something as daring as claiming a wild dragon. I mean, Hell, Rhaena gets told out loud "hey if you want a dragon you need to claim a dragon, earn that right" by her own mother who did the exact same thing, and then spent ten years on Dragonstone twiddling her thumbs, I guess, since she never thought "hm let me try that".

Like, these are different people, with different personalities and different upbringings that shaped them in different ways, and thus have different relationships and impact the story in different ways. You can't just smush them together, it doesn't work. It's bad writing that is going to really wreck a lot of the future storytelling in some key ways. It shows a stunning lack of care towards not just a pre-existing Black character, but a Black character the writers themselves created as well, along with a lack of creativity and imagination on their part, and overall laziness that was already a bit present in season 1 but got kicked into overdrive in season 2 and has become endemic to this show overall. It's bad, it's dumb, it's lazy, it's borderline racist, and I don't like it.

(also there's a potent symbolism in rhaena's dragon hatching on its own and that she's called morning, after the dance killed so many dragons and created so much death and doom for house targaryen and the survivors that remain, but fuck the symbolism too i guess)

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

If you had to pinpoint the main issue of MLB, the root of all evil if you may (aside from Astruc), what would it be?

If we're going super high level, it would be narrative consistency (I believe this is a synonym for "narrative coherence" or, at least, I've always used them pretty interchangeably and googling one finds you stuff on the other). I wanted to get an official definition of this term and wikipedia gave me this from a larger article on the theory of narrative paradigm:

Narrative coherence is the degree to which a story makes sense. Coherent stories are internally consistent, with sufficient detail, strong characters, and free of significant surprises. The ability to assess coherence is learned and improves with experience. Individuals assess a story's adherence by comparing it with similar stories. The ultimate test of narrative sense is whether the characters act reliably. If figures show continuity throughout their thoughts, motives, and actions, acceptance increases. However, characters behaving uncharacteristically destroy acceptance.

I also found a pretty good overview of the topic on the blog of a random editor. You can follow that link to read the whole thing, but I wanted to highlight this section on characters as I thought it was particularly relevant to the stuff I talk about on this blog:

Your characters will have their own personalities and behaviours that the reader will become familiar with as the story develops, so if you deviate from these patterns, the reader will notice. That’s why it’s important to maintain character consistency – that they would act in a way that is right and in keeping with their personality, rather than making them act out of character to make elements of the story fit.

As you can hopefully see from the above sources, the stuff I've talk about on here, and just generally thinking about the show, most of the issues with Miraculous have to do with the show being narratively incoherent. Characters do whatever the writers want them to do. Plot lines get dropped and picked back up then dropped (Lila) with no rhyme or reason. Big, meaningful setups lead to nothing (Gabriel learning all the temp heroes identities). Twists come out of nowhere (Kagami being a senti). They all indicate that something is majorly wrong here.

I am not involved in the production of this show, so I cannot tell you where all of these issues come from. It may be that the writing staff doesn't know what they're doing or it could be that unknown forces like marketing are driving the writers to do things that they'd rather not or it could be a mix of the two. For example, I'm pretty sure the magical charms we get in season four were only added to sell stuff like this and this, which is why I try to approach this show without pointing fingers at anyone too specific unless there's some hard evidence to back up what I'm saying. All I know is that this show has a massive writing problem and I'll end with a little advice on how I avoid this issue. It may or may not work for you. It all depends on your writing style.

When you sit down to write a story, it's very normal to not have a clear path for how to get from story point A to story point B. You don't need to find that path before you start writing. You just need to keep in mind that B is your goal and start figuring out how to logically get there.

I often describe this process as taking a journey with a known destination, but no planned route. However, just like with a road trip, the further you go, the more limited your options become because of the choices you made. If you skipped stopping at an interesting city or landmark, you can't change that fact and we're not turning the car around just so you can get a picture next to the big ball of string. You had your chance and you missed it. Accept that and move on.

Similarly, as you write your story, you have to own the choices you've already made on your journey. If you choose to let a character in on a massive secret (Alya learning Ladybug's identity), then you have to fully own how that choice would impact all elements of the story (Alya's opinion of Lila) not just the short sighted elements you wanted it to impact (note how Lila's not a thing in season four? Almost like they didn't plan out how to handle her and Alya at the same time?) Own the route you committed to and find a way to tell the next part of the story in a way that feels like it's on the same route and you'll be fine.

Does that mean occasionally having to give up on cool ideas that you really liked? Yep, but that's the nature of story telling. It's part of the reason why people are told to "kill their darlings." That's just a thing you have to learn to do if you want to be a good writer.

[omentranslates]

Not gonna bother titling this ok so at Momocon yesterday they showed a relationship chart that showed both the English and original Japanese text and I have some INSIGHTS (JUST INSIGHTS) about how they translated it and they're mostly superfluous but I have rabies about this anime SO

YOU CAN VIEW THE CHART IN FULL HERE AND IT'S FROM THIS SUPER COOL LIVETWEET THREAD BY QUINN

OK SO HERE'S MY OBSERVATIONS:

(+) in Knives's line about Vash the language implies that Knives believes Vash has already been brainwashed not that he's in the process of it and also that the brainwashing IS his love of humanity. Lit translation including every word: "Wants to save his younger brother who has been unfortunately brainwashed/mindcontrolled into follies such as loving humans" (does not specify that loving humans is the only "folly" actually uses particle that suggests there are others and Vash is doing multiple things Knives disapproves of (you could probably use a more normal word than folly like literally just foolish action but I like folly bc I think it has the same weird vibe as 愚 which is part of the word he uses in JP))

(+) in JP the same word is used for mindcontrolled in Livio's line is used for brainwashed in Knives's line about Vash

(+) part of Vash's line to Wolfwood is left out: "thinks he's an intrinsically good person AND wants him to be good again, Lit. translation "wants him to return from bad back to being good (of his own volition)"

(+) phrasing that they translated to irritable is 気に食わない, I JUST HAVE A DIFFERENT PREFERENCE I JUST THINK THIS PHRASE HAS A VIBE THAT GOES A LITTLE BEYOND "IRRITATED" my personal favorite eng equivalent is "unable to stomach" if it was my tl I would say: "because Vash's pacifist ideals run contrary to his own beliefs he cannot stomach them"

(+) the section they titled Fanatics in JP is 狂信者 (lit. fanatic, never seen 狂 used in a way that wasn't negative) instead of 崇拝者 (more positive connotation ig, lit. worshipper) and they seem to be using these terms kind of interchangeably bc they also in the description of the Eye of Michael use the word 崇敬派. Legato notably calls the cult 崇拝者 in episode 6 and Roberto uses 崇敬派 to describe them in episode 5 and I FEEL like I remember the subs translating that part to fanatical or fanatics or something equally negative but I can't remember and I can't check the episode for a while so don't quote me if I'm stupid I also don't remember where or if they say 狂信者 in the anime they probably do but I wasn't looking out for that one sorry this is literally just me rambling abt word association than something more comprehensive

OK THATS ALL I HAD.

TO BE CLEAR I DONT MEAN TO CONTRADICT ANYTHING THE OFFICIAL TEAM HAD TO SAY OR ANY CHOICES THEY MADE WITH THE TL NO DISRESPECT INTENDED WHATSOEVER I AM JUST YELLING ABT STUFF I NOTICED

[loveislandthegame]

my overall thoughts on season 7, writing edition: what in the world ? 😭 i cannot believe i thought this season was gonna be good. i’ll be joining rohan & S2 MC in the circus, since FB made me look like a damn clown. i don't even know where to begin

being a casa girl had so much potential, and it was something that a lot of players actually wanted, even before FB started doing these themed seasons. they really fumbled the bag here

i enjoyed casa amor. the guys were all unique, had their own dialogue, and it was cool to see their pre-established relationships (alex being the villa dad, bryson and rafa being partners in chaos, the beef between bryson & joyo) then we arrived in the villa, and it all went downhill from there:

everybody became an empty husk, so they could be forced into interchangeable roles: uma’s partner, bonnie’s partner, OG LI’s ex, loved up couple (summer/joyo or #rafne) to name a few. FB’s lazy asses ruined their own characters . why is alex, the supposed level-headed & mature one, being petty & childish af in my playthrough? 😭

MC literally had no thoughts, head empty. we barely participated in any of the challenges and games. it felt like we didn't do anything besides "get pulled for a chat" by your LI or the girls

the LI personality merge in this season was the worst it has ever been. all they do is agree with whatever you say, or tell you how great you are (gone are the days of LIs having their own interests, & getting extra dialogue because of that, like levi with artist MCs)

same problem as the most recent seasons, where MC doesn’t have friendships. she has a forced bestie, then potential LIs that sit around waiting for you to pick them, choose them, love them (they immediately disappear if you don’t pick them)

the plot made no sense at all. being a casa girl means we miss out on the first half of the season, but there were many different ways they could've shown what happened before we arrived (it couldve been something as simple as MC watching the show at home or during the jeep ride to the villa. lol) the timeline was inconsistent, so much important information was paywalled, and i’m pretty sure FB was just making shit up as they went along, since the drama with stephen and OG LI's ex genuinely came out of nowhere . he wasn’t previously mentioned in the beach hut, casa amor, nothing . his only purpose was to make the OG girl look bad.

speaking of the OG girls, what a disappointment . before we got to the villa, i honestly thought they were hinting at estelle and/or willow being LIs . even if they were forced to be our rival, they still could’ve had an interesting character arc . it would've been a lot more fun if she was like allegra, rather than OG LI's equivalent of suresh

i was gonna write, "why tf did she even make it to the finale?" but the answer is obvious : for the gem scenes. every damn volume, it's pay diamonds to upstage her, pay diamonds to clapback, pay diamonds so “your man” doesn't turn his head 🙄 it's already stupid enough, but it makes even less sense if you're not pursuing your OG LI

which leads me to the biggest problem of this season, the lack of branching. you're given the illusion of choice, everything leads to the same outcome . i didn't think it could get any worse, until i saw what happens when you choose the money . does your LI storm off? nope. they make you do the treasure hunt anyways...to win you back ??😭 MC should've called security on their ass

s7 had a promising start but ended up being a flop. it was better than s5, but that's really not saying much . i wish FB would just take their time—s1 and 2 had a whole year long gap between them. but it's clear that rushed seasons are gonna be the norm, season 8 is dropping in february . capitalism ruins everything luv x

[midnight-scugs]

Machines of Wartime AU character study #1: Unparalleled Innocense

Buckle the fuck in folks this is gonna be another long one because I'm passionate about how I characterize them here. Long post again, so more info comes after the cut. Note for reference and clarity that throughout this post UI will be referred to with they/ae pronouns quite interchangeably, so instances of either set are in reference to them.

No real major content warnings here, although I'll give a small warning for self destructive behavior, as well as a more minor precautionary warning for brief mentions of neglect and dehumanization from their admins.

UI is, essentially, a high energy constant stimulation seeker at their core, and a lot of what they do shows it in some way. It's a major reason (along with far less personality shaping going into their generation) behind why they used to be quite mean here before making steps towards improvement. They were never taught a healthy outlet to seek stimulation, so they will try pretty much anything to see what sticks; pretty much anything that gets a form of reaction from others is included in what does stick.

Spreading rumors and other bits of info makes people react, whether good or bad. This means results. People who learn them often further spread them. This means even more results. And when you build a reputation for yourself as "the mean rumor spreader", these results will get back to you all over again. Messages, reactions, more people coming to them to start shit; it's all results and reactions and stimulation. It's an easy way to get what ae want... even if it means people thinking less of aer for it. But hey, can't get lonely if you're constantly too stimulated or too busy seeking more of everything to really think about how nobody quite genuinely likes you! It's easy when you don't let yourself focus on feelings, just shut down any attempts at self awareness!

The reason they're like this, in reality, primarily comes not from being truly mean or spiteful at their core, but just from being built in a way where lack of proper guidance or true care from their creators after creation has left them both feeling a little abandoned ("why bother behaving when nobody cares about me anyway") and physically incapable of tolerating understimulation ("if I'm not doing enough it almost physically hurts"). They have incredibly high processing power; a measurable amount more than even Pebbles, and Pebbles and UI are respectively the first and second iterators of their generation to be created. If they're not using enough of that processing power, it drives them up a wall a little; they genuinely cannot stand being in a state where they're not receiving enough stimulation of some sort. They hate boredom and lack of activity and even just sitting still for too long. Movement, sound, reading messages, running 5 background processes at once, taking on multiple high intensity projects, whatever; it's all the same as long as it gives aer what their systems crave. More stimulation. And saying and doing shit to get reactions is heavily related to that; it's negative stimulation seeking behavior that was never properly taught as "don't do this it's not healthy", because quite frankly aer admins don't care what ae do, as long as ae have a high work output. They're just an iterator after all, right?

And then we come to why they're not really like this anymore, way more toned down in how they act. One big reason is simply time and maturity; they've gained more life experience and kind of just grown away from this sort of behavior in favor of better outlets. They're still young and reckless, but not as overwhelmingly so after a good few decades of time to live and grow. They've seen that it makes people not like them to act like that; even now they still have no real friends due to their reputation. It makes them lonely now that they've calmed down enough to actually think about how others view them instead of living in the moment; they don't want to be lonely. They don't want to be sad. Ae don't want to experience negative emotions, because feelings as a whole tend to be very intense for aer and bad ones really suck to deal with. And they want to get away from these feelings.

Another big reason is because of Pebbles, as was alluded to a little in this post. He's their partner, he cares about them, and they care about him too. For one thing, they don't want their own behaviors to reflect poorly on him by proxy; they're self aware enough now to see that this could happen, and they don't want anyone else to be made to feel like a bad person simply because of being associated with them. They don't want this for someone they love. For another thing, he honestly just makes them feel seen. He can see that they struggle quite badly when understimulated; but unlike aer admins who simply ignore anything that's not work and results and responsibilities, he actually cares enough to help them find a healthy outlet to, well, actually properly stim instead of leaving them to seek unhealthy, and ultimately self destructive since it blows up their ability to maintain friendships, methods. He views them as an entire person deserving of respect, not just a machine with a purpose. That's why they're actually together quite a lot; he's willing to give them what they need to get that stimulation in a more healthy way, whether that be engaging them in direct conversation or letting them constantly fidget with his clothes or just giving them a good squeeze because ae like the feeling. He loves them and cares about them and will go out of his way to keep them happy and engaged and focused on more positive outlets. He involves them in projects a lot because they're actually a very good worker when they care about the task at hand, and they love being delegated tasks to engage with! Giving them more tasks + generally more ideas on how to properly and healthily stim is exactly what they need, and he gives it to aer. It's a big part in why the two of them have a very strong relationship now, the level of genuine care and respect they've cultivated for each other.

They're actually getting a lot better now! They've mostly moved away from the more toxic sorts of behaviors they used to display, since they now have much better outlets. They're not a completely different person personality wise; they're still quite socially driven, and ae do love a good bit of interesting information. They're just mature enough now to not spread things they shouldn't. Ae still don't have true friends really, but they're working towards that and finally starting to gain acquaintances who actually like them and value them for who they are as a person. And they're a lot happier for it; they feel seen and valued and like they have actual reasons to try and be better now. They are loved, they are seen, and they are better off for it.

TL;DR UI is essentially a high powered supercomputer with ADHD that went completely unmanaged for a long time, and as a result they started seeking out negative stimming behaviors. They were never shown anything more healthy as an alternative. They matured over time and were finally shown better stimming methods by someone who cares about them, and it's helped them grow and improve a lot.

[amphiptere-art]

So I just want to explain how relationships in the arcade are going to work. Unfortunately I can't find my original post on it. So I'm going to go out to the best of my memory of all they said before. Arcade is going off of quite a bit of relationships statuses I've already said I believe for the Sun and Moon show. Put these are just more finite.

I also will be going over the exact relationships between the characters in arcade. So stick till the end for that.

So arcade relationships.

So let's just first list off all the different types of familial-esque relationships You can have in arcade. There is-

Company, Creator/caretaker, built for, spoken, code shared, Code offspring.

I will be going over all the relationships above by importance to robots. Or how related they are considered under these terms. The first one here being not related, and the last one being definitely related.

Company

Company or as it is sometimes termed by animatronics as model. Is by far the least looked at aspect of relationships between robots. Most robots don't even consider this one looking for partners or family. This is mostly a human term. And for short point of history robots under humans would also believe in this sort of relationship. Although that has long been abolished.

Essentially this points out that every robot that is similar is exactly the same. They are the exact same shape, model, starting parameters, everything. This sometimes would even extend towards every animatronic underneath the company name. Meaning that no animatronic under a singular company could have a relationship by using this terminology. Which is exactly why it was quickly thrusted out as a term for free animatronics. It was just too constricting.

Creator or caretaker.

This is another mostly human term. Most humans believe they are under the right to be called a father towards a certain animatronic. And while some animatronics do share this relationship with their creator or caretaker. Many do not. This was mostly abolished by free animatronics. And for those animatronics that did feel that type of relationship towards their human creator/caretakers. They switched over to the spoken terminology. Anyone can reject anyone using the creator/caretaker terminology.

How this type of relationship works was mostly like saying you had a parental figure. Basically they were the most prominent figure in a robot growing years. And while some animatronics try to use this terminology upon others they created once they earned freedom. It is mostly considered a old term and a human term. Animatronics that do use this term on other animatronics aren't considered related unless it is accepted as a spoken term. As those types of relationships have been mostly replaced with the spoken term.

Built for.

This term is a little strange. The easiest way to explain it is that it is animatronics that are built to be siblings or related. To some animatronics it is humans way of forcing relationships on animatronics since they cannot reproduce similarly. This term has not been completely abolished. Mostly because it is correct in the fact that robots do struggle to reproduce in a meaningful way. But it also is one of the easier ones for old animatronics to separate. While this term does exist and persists. It has been mostly replaced by the spoken terminology.

The easiest way that most animatronics see this relationship. Is that it is similar to cousins. Usually these animatronics have spent a long time with their built for animatronic siblings. So that mental relationship is very strong. And while some will still stay with built for relationships. Using interchangeably with the spoken term. Plenty of others will simply separate under the terms that they are still family. But distant now.

Spoken.

This is by far the most lively term used by animatronics nowadays. This is mostly how animatronics that were related to each other, or wanted to be related to each other express that. Spoken does not usually have to have any connections other than the fact that you must have known the other animatronic, or a animatronic wants to be included in a family. It also is how most animatronics will expand family trees.

Spoken is usually used in referencing to direct family. There are spoken siblings. Spoken parental figures. And this can also include spoken cousins. This also relates to adoption like scenarios. But! Once you are spoken as a family member. Any other animatronic that is accepted into that spoken family, or is able to have a code share or offspring. Are all related forever! While there is no drawbacks. It is considered very bad to get in sexual relationships with spoken family. It is to remain fully platonic.

Code share.

Code share and code offspring are very close. The only difference is that one acts more like offspring and the other acts more like a mixing of blood. It is considered a level up for those who use the spoken terminology. This also kind of work towards animatronics that duplicate one another. Although there is discussion that that should be more so a code offspring than a code share.

Spoken and code share terminologies are exactly the same. It is for those who want to be considered direct family under whatever circumstance is. The biggest difference is that usually this is the spoken parental figure, sharing their code with everyone in their spoken family. Becoming a code share family. It is by far the most accepted way to become a parental figure to a bunch of animatronics. Although this is currently not exactly the easiest thing to get to without having prior coding knowledge, or the payment to pay somebody with that knowledge. But it is slowly becoming the norm and easier to access.

Code offspring.

Currently. This is the only specific terminology for animatronic relationships. This usually means specifically a child of an animatronic. While there is spoken words That can mean the same thing. Given that there is a parental spoken word. This is the most legitimate way for animatronics to actually have a child that isn't through an adoption like circumstance. Most spoken children are simply adopted into a family. At least by human terms. Having a code offspring is entirely saying that you have a animatronic baby that can soon become a child. And while animatronics are still figuring out how to craft a animatronic that can mature in a human like fashion. There are some that exist.

Like I said. This literally just means that an animatronic has a child. A literal baby that becomes a child. It is most prominently made by mixing two animatronics codes together. Or by using one's code and modifying it slightly to become a child. Which is why currently the duplicate of yourself is questionable if it is a code offspring or code share. Many people currently are voting on code offspring. But many are saying it's just a code share. Either way. There is undoubtedly going to become more terms the more stable this type of animatronic reproduction gets.

And that is the entirety of every single familial type relationship animatronics can have.

Now because it is going to be asked. This is only pointing out how animatronics see each others as fathers, mothers, cousins, and siblings. Other than the currently abolished or mostly abolished terms. Anyone that is considered a built for, spoken, code share, or code offspring to each other, cannot get into sexual relationships. This includes animatronics that are waiting for a confirmation on spoken family, and anyone down the long train of spoken family up to a certain point. Similar to human incest levels.

It is currently acceptable for animatronics that are underneath the same company, or are underneath the same creator/caretaker to get into relationships. Although if your creator is an animatronic. It is usually acceptable to switch over to the spoken term. Although there currently are no laws if they do not accept the spoken term. They simply just haven't been fighting over it. Most have switched over to the spoken term, but have distanced themselves as close family. Usually to the levels of cousins. <This will become law eventually. Just not currently at this time.

Onto the specific relationships in the stardust arcade!

So I'm going to list out everyone's specific relationships to each other. Now because these animatronics do come from different Pizza plexes. There are certain relationships that will not be listed. So technically I will be adding relationships to (characters family), but I won't be listing it out. Just the knowledge that they have extra family. Also I will be using the spoken family terms. As they are the most accepted. I will simply put in () marks whether they have a specific reasoning or differencing terminology why they are related.

All right, Let's get started with this party.

Blackstar, eclipse, and black stars family are family. All considered brothers. (Black Star code shared with eclipse.)

Planet and her human caretaker are family. (She uses the spoken terminology for her human caretaker. But the caretaker still uses the old one.) She is attempting to become spoken family with eclipse and Blackstar. It has yet to be fully accepted. Waiting on Blackstar.

Arcade Sun and Moon are family. They are brothers to each other. (They usually refer to themselves as built for brothers.) They are currently attempting to get planet into their spoken family. It has yet to be accepted.

Blood Moon and Pluto are family. (They are technically built for family. But they exclusively use the spoken terms.) Pluto has yet to fully word out that he is spoken family to Blood Moon. But they are considered spoken family until he is able to deny or accept.

Nova and Nova's family are family. (Nova and Nova's family are built for family. Although it is mostly a spoken distant cousin relationship.)

Jack o Moon has no family. (Used to consider himself creator/caretaker family with other animatronics. But when that term was abolished, No one else accepted his spoken family terms.) Is currently looking to get spoken family.

[a-frog-in-a-bog]

We were mutuals for a while and I did really like your blog, but I really can’t tolerate panphobia. I saw a post you reblogged about phrases (that aren’t really used in the pan community anymore because of new understandings of the gender spectrum and trans people) and how they’re inherently biphobic.

Posts like that, stereotypes like that are harmful and make me scared to identify as pan within the lgbtq+ community and I will often just say I’m queer and call it a day. Bi/pan people have more commonalities than they do differences. To me they’re inherently interchangeable and the only difference is what word you feel comfortable identifying as.

Panphobia from people within the community mirrors biphobia in and outside of the community. We experience the same injustices you do, it’s just a different term. I don’t tolerate biphobia, panphobia, aphobia, or any other kind of intercommunity hatred. I’m rooting for every sub-community that are overlooked or villainized. So I wish you and yours the best, but I cannot follow you when you’re reblogging harmful posts like that.

sorry for not answering sooner, for some reason tumblr decided not to show me your ask until today. anyway pansexuality is inherently biphobic and transphobic, the modern usage was literally coined by ppl who thought they were special for being attracted to all genders, even trans ppl, unlike bisexuals. of course bi and pan have more similarities than differences. they're the same fucking thing. the only difference is that bisexuality has always meant "experiences both same and different gender attraction" whereas pansexuality has begrudgingly changed definitions every time a group they offend says "um hey why do you consider trans women to be a different gender than women?" or "why do you feel the need to specify that your sexuality includes attraction to nonbinary people as if other sexualities don't?"

at this point bi and pan mean the same thing bc as pansexuals have begrudgingly cut off all the bigoted parts of their definition the only part that remains is the "attracted to all genders" part which is literally just another way of saying "attracted to same and different genders". y'all just took the long transphobic way and decided to throw bisexuals under the bus while you were at it. now the mainstream assumption is that pansexuality is a more inclusive version of bisexuality or that bisexual is an outdated term.

i see the "well i'm just more comfortable with pan" excuse a lot. but why? why are you (general) uncomfortable with bisexuality? you already admitted that pan is the same as bi so why are you more comfortable calling yourself one but not the other? why are you more comfortable aligning yourself with a sexuality that has transphobic and biphobic roots instead of just embracing a label that has meant attraction to all genders for over a century and has such a rich history? and finally, why do you consider someone calling out pansexuality's problematic rhetoric to be bigotry?

[theopolis]

Hi! I was just wondering - what do you think about Dane Dehaan being Harry Osborn? I love this movie with my soul, but can't rewatch it because of Peter's horrible atitude to Harry. It just breaks my heart everytime I think of him just did nothing to try to safe Harry's life.

I retain my opinion that Dane DeHaan was very well cast as Harry and I would absolutely love to see him have another crack at it in a different project, but the movie's treatment of his character starts out a bit of a hodge podge, and ends up being deeply disappointing.

On one hand TASM actually attempts to give him a somewhat better defined inner life than the Raimi movies did. Whereas Raimi Harry sort of just had a vague insecurity around not being good enough in his fathers eyes that was only pinned on his lack of smarts or academic success in the first Spider-Man - something that, aside from omitting a lot of crucial context from the source material, was never explored further in the subsequent installments of the franchise, where Harry's inner turmoil was only used to fuel his conflict with Peter - TASM Harry is very driven by his abandonment issues and bitterness over being disregarded and "thrown away", as well as a desire to escape his fathers legacy throughout the whole film.

I think while both of these struggles have their roots in 616 and could be compelling things to do with the character, TASM, despite actually implementing more of Harry's frailty (though that could have been an acting choice on DeHaan's part, which would be another reason to praise him in the role) ultimately ran into the same issues as its predecessor by leaving out Harry's true thematic core, his fear of and revulsion towards his own softness. The usual adaptational nonsense really, but at least there's potential to build on. Until...

The movie takes a complete nosedive wrt Harry at the end by essentially using Goblin Sr and Goblin Jr interchangably and placing him in Norman's narrative role of Gwen's murderer. Here's where my good will with the writing choices comes ot an end.

Now I'm not gonna get into discourse of when a villain, broadly speaking, is or is not redeemable, because I don't think it matters to this conversation as much as the following does; In the source material, the purpose of Harry as a character is essentialy to showcase the value of vulnerability, and the instrument through which that message is conveyed is his relationship with his foil, Peter. Whether or not TASM Harry can be redeemed in the audiences eye, his relationship with Peter has clearly crossed over into being unsalvageable. There is no convincing way for the tenderness Peter extended towards Goblin Harry in the comics to exist and ultimately save the day in this franchise post TASM2 ending. On that same note, another crucial thing to critique is that not having it in him to actually take a life - as much as the occasional comic that does not care for Harry as a dynamic supporting cast member with narrative value seems to disagree - has been a consistent trait of his in the source material. This matters, because it's one of the defining pieces of characterization showing how his soft core makes him both "weak" and "strong"

I will say that I disagree with you on Peter's attitude towards Harry - I think the movie and Garfields performance make it clear that Peter has very warm and sentimental feelings towards Harry and wants to help him, even if he cannot see a safe way of doing so. The issue is that TASM2 is juggling a lot of things at once, ends up putting the "Harry is terminally ill" thing on the backburner for a long time, and then essentially uses this fault in the script as a plot device; Harry is tired of waiting, he's gonna resort to desperate measures!

In the end, I like the idea of TASM Harry. I like what he could have been, I like the inklings of a better treatment for his character in the first half of the movie. But what he ended up being is unfortunately very, very far removed from that and the only reason I'm not actively mad about it is that TASM is rather inconsequential in the current state of the Spider-Man franchise - It's not ongoing, nor well loved by a bigger portion of the fanbase, the only thing about it that really remains in public conscious is Andrew Garfield's Peter.

I personally have deeply mixed feelings about the franchise overall, for all kinds of reasons. I can see why you say you loved the movie, because I think it has some themes that it very much commits to and manages to tackle in an emotionally resonant way. It's just that Harry's character isn't really included in any of those themes and ends up being sacrified for them instead.

[commsroom]

sorry if u answered this before but do you hc Eiffel as any particular race? I know him being white would probably match how he sees himself as the everyman. But on the other hand he gives me light skin vibes and I can't explain why. (Also no matter what he has long hair but curly haired Eiffel just speaks to me)

mm. i know you're just asking for my opinion, but that's a complicated question. and i am not the right person to be talking about this, so please take it with a grain of salt. one of the few legitimate criticisms i have of wolf 359 is that it's a show about personal identity, resisting dehumanization, and recognizing that other people navigate the world in different ways, but it tries to be raceblind. which. it can't. particularly when something like minkowski's identity as a polish immigrant is addressed.

i think one of the reasons that wolf 359 characters feel as real as they do is how collaborative the character development process was; they are really roles that are shaped by and belong to those actors. lovelace is played by a black actress, cecilia lynn-jacobs's input determined a lot of things about her, and the audience reaction to lovelace getting shot near the end of s3 was the way it was because there was an understanding of her as a black woman. whether she was initially written to be black is kind of irrelevant in that case, i think - she still is, and she resonates with people that way.

but every other main character in wolf 359 is played by, and similarly influenced by, a white person. and that's a problem. no matter how you approach it, wolf 359 is not a diverse show: if they were written as non-white, then being played by white people would be a problem. raceblindness also enforces a default assumption of whiteness. i think if eiffel wasn't meant to be read as white, then there are aspects of his character arc, his assumption of himself as the "default" person and general ignorance of how it feels to be "other", that probably could've been explored from a different angle.

i know people who see him as white because of that, and i know people who see him as another race because of how they connect with him as a character. and i can understand both perspectives on that, but i don't think there's a right way to approach it. i think the show unfortunately, in this one specific way, kind of dug its own grave. gabriel urbina has said however you see these characters, that's correct, and i can agree with the sentiment, but it's also mired in a lot of difficult context, because these are specific people, and these things should matter to them. it can't be interchangeable, and so it can't be that ambiguous. it could be handled a lot better. and based on his more recent work + politics, i wonder if he would've approached it differently, if he had all the information then.

about how i see eiffel: i've said many times before that i see him as a man who could be reasonably played by zach valenti, so the eiffel in my head is white. the eiffel in the art i commission, or the art where i'm like "oh!! eiffel!!" is not necessarily. the second most eiffel-like guy i can think of, who i also use as a reference sometimes, is iranian. but for me to say that eiffel was iranian is not really a claim i think it would be right for me to make, and i think it is probably not true.

the main features that i think eiffel must have are dark, wavy/curly hair, prominent nose, noticeable body hair, generally expressive. he absolutely cannot be light haired, clean shaven, or pale. and from a general standpoint, like... a wide variety of men could meet those qualifications. i don't want to reinforce an assumption of whiteness, but i'm also extremely wary about treating race as functionally cosmetic, since. again. it can't be. no show is removed from real life social contexts, and wolf 359 is about a lot of very real things.

i think if you do interpret eiffel as specifically a cis, able-bodied white guy, there's something very real and very unfortunate about the fact he initially ignores lovelace and hera, two marginalized women, and seeks reassurance from minkowski that they were overreacting. he listens eventually, but the person who gets through to him is presumably the Next Most Visibly Privileged Person, and that's... hm.

[theitcharchives]

I caved. I watched Loki S2

Loki season two was fine but too many of you are being insufferable about the series itself and its lore. Timelines and universes are not interchangeable things–a universe contains timelines according to the series' lore itself and I don't understand how people do not understand this. MCU Loki now holds the timelines of 199999. Quit throwing the 616 thing around (looking at you Feige) and talking about "worlds". Variants are the same people across timelines according to logic, that's why some of the Lokis in S1E5 (iirc episode number) made no sense–Mobius did.

The first season remains one of the worst things I've ever had the misfortune to see, so to say I'm pleasantly surprised by the second is something.

Be warned–pleasantly surprised does not mean "omg it's perfect" it means "I did not expect this measure of respect for character and narrative, there's some good points and there's definitely bad points".

Still, the first three episodes were boring. The narrative in them and in some places of the second three was clunky. Things were underexplained and impersonal, both rushed and scattered. X-05 did not appear outside of the first season premiere, not even the first season proper (according to the internet because I indeed had zero recollection of him and refuse to rewatch S1) yet the second season treats him as if the audience is familiar with him–and it's confusing as heck. I cannot even properly recall what exactly happened in those episodes because it was so clunky and scattered and half explained. Especially the characters and their goals and stakes. I barely cared for Loki's, let alone anyone else's–well except Ouroboros. I love that guy.

Wow, we have to save all these freed timelines? Sure. I mean it's the right thing to do, so let's do it. It would've been so easy to actually get the audience to personally care–have Loki realize in those infinite timelines, there were some he could be happy in. His mother, his brother, even his father to whom his attachment is not resolved, there had to be timelines where they were happy and safe, perhaps even with him. In some of those timelines, Loki gets his revenge on Thanos, he gets to heal. He comes to term with his birth and heritage, he remedies the wrongs he has been done and has done to others in turn. Yes, those timelines deserve to exist, because Loki should know he deserves to be happy too. His "friends" too. Those stories deserve to exist.

Speaking of under-explained... so at one point Loki just... gains control over time jumps? Like that? Did I miss something in the whole thing? Like if it's because it's him, according to The Who being what is important ("in magic", I would have expected) then say it.

Some pieces were predictable. The whole interrogation of X-05 match one and two, the ending path itself (I was surprised by the tree thing though), Loki pruning himself (did that scene really need to be drawn out like that? We get what's happening, get on with it).

Some pieces were drawn out like the self-pruning, like retrieving Victor Timely. The whole time I was like "You've seen him, you can block objects in mid-air and teleport people in cages, snatch him and throw him in a portal so he can see the TVA instead of just talking to him and convince him–why does he need to be convinced?? Show him!!?" Details like these, like the machine that makes the shrinking cubes being left at all in the cell, Ravonna not actually looking to see if any other minutemen were considering her offer before compressing them all (I guess they had to slim down the cast, but man), Loki the Jotun with super strength having to run kilometers to catch one human–silly.

Things that were left out–Thanos, completely. The Jotun heritage. Loki being the scapegoat child in the narcissistic royal family, all his conditioning. It is said he wants a throne, it is never acknowledged why: being groomed to do so since childhood through mentions he was born to be a king, upbringing, education, treatment by family and society. The gender fluidity and sexuality, though with the MCU's regard for those things, it's likely better they left them alone–though the lack of shapeshifting was miffing. New York was handled better than I would've expected, but still breezily.

Now to be fair, many things were good. B-5 outright stating that the pruning the TVA does is an atrocity and convincing others. I'm ambivalent about Loki and Mobius–their relationship in the first season was a terrible one, but they genuinely roped me in in the second. Some things were funny in that delicate way that doesn't need clownery and one-liners that I'd been missing ever since the first two Thor movies. Ouroboros (especially in episode 5–ouch, too close to home). The soundtrack, amazing. The acting came across as more heartfelt. I even managed to tolerate Sylvie in the last few episodes–and oh yeah, leaving romance of any kind out, completely. Thank fuck. Loki actually being the main character of his own series. The fifth and sixth episodes. The sets, the props also felt real. The final outfit is growing on me. The dialogues, the interactions, the camera work, my gods, some parts were amazing. I am willing to rewatch it to make more sense of things, and look at other MCU works to see if it will impact them. I had given up on the MCU–Loki roped me in, Loki gave me back some interest when I thought it was dead for good.

Oh I'm still mad all my searches for comics appearances are cluttered with MCU stuff. I'll be mad until it calms out. "What if it never-" then I guess I'll never stop holding a grudge and complaining.

In the end, I'm just glad Loki got his not-terrible ending. I don't like that his final choice and chance was to sacrifice himself and all his needs for others, sitting in a tree holding the 199999 universe's timelines together, alone after saying teary eyed that he doesn't want to be alone. But it's still better than how he was treated and discarded from T:Ragnarok to Infinity War, and it doesn't exclude Loki from showing up again, some way or the other.

Obligatory link to the Loki comics reading list.

[alitgblog]

volume ix thoughts wooooo we're out of casa

first off, return of a legend: the beach hut

i was fully expecting the compatibility test to be more like the season 1 compatibility test with the zodiacs because that's fun but i guess that's less of a pot stirrer than a fun game to have. though the narrator poking fun at it i guess is making fun of the fandom for thinking it was gonna be horoscopes 🤣

so very obvious ass test though especially with the two answers only about the two guys you're pursuing, which I think is a missed opportunity to throw more lore about the guys in there. or at least make it not as obvious? really goes to show how surface level the characters are compared to, say, the Mr. and Mrs. Challenge towards the end of S2

I'm going for Jin and Max rn so I thought it was funny their personalities were boiled down to "funny" vs "extroverted" and my MC had to pick between the two as if they were mutually exclusive

anyway just nearly got Jin lmao

I'd like them to stop with the Claudia/Theo storyline because it feels like they've already decided they're done with each other and are ready to move on? However, Claudia being compatible with Theo on paper but like not really feeling it is an interesting idea. Like she feels she's got no other option to stay safe except for him and they like each other enough. Meanwhile Bea's settling for Liam because he's shown any interest in her at all. (Let them date each other if MC can't! They deserve better!!)

also I know that I joked about Theo being just some mildly attractive white guy to fawn over and settle for but the way that Claudia is just settling for him? actually upsetting like I'm so sorry, Theo 😟 I didn't mean it I thought he was fine after the first dates 😖

Hari mention! I was pretty sure the game forgot about him lmao

anyway the compatibility thing still doesn't make the most sense because like,,, why did all the guys get the Villa girls and none of the casa girls? I just think we should stir up some shit. I know it's annoying but it is the perfect opportunity to try to make Emel angry at Oakley again by saying he's most compatible with some casa girl. And she can show growth by not getting upset this time.

idk why but Kyle's poem to Emel is giving wannabe rap crew vibes (i.e. I'm missing S1 I'll take what I can get). Also, Claudia said he's giving game player vibes?? I'm actually so upset with how the LI's are all interchangeable because simply this cannot be the same Kyle y'all are fawning over (it's not 😭)

I'm kind of curious what it's like replaying on a straight route bc personally my heart hurts every time they show Claudia's little sad face but like I have to talk to Max it just makes more sense because MC can't couple with Claudia in stick or twist

Close your eyes and pick at random is actually hilarious as an option for stick or twist and I almost did it

i've already said my piece about Sienna, I love her design. I will admit though, her open mouth smile is a little stilted but people get botox so... not out of the ordinary lol. The bigger problem is how her hand on her hip is a little fucked up (color in between the lines, fusebox!)

as someone not on a Theo route, I really don't understand why he's sticking with Claudia unless he's got some personal turmoil he's working through and trying to actually reform his player ways. And I wish MC could talk to him as a friend and we'd see that. like in the way S2, you get to know Rocco's insecurity about never finishing university and Gary's anxiety even if you aren't on their routes

Anyway I'm still upset at the forcing MC to couple because she's single thing. They could've still had her coupled with Jin (or even with Hari it would work) and then she can either walk in single or with a casa boy. And then she's the main character: just say that the single islanders don't get dumped post casa (like it's SUPPOSED to be) because in that situation, she's the only one! Or if you need the numbers to be right, literally Emel is right there. She can come back to Oakley later if anything

still not the best stick or twist could've gone in terms of drama (or maybe that's just bc I've been looking at spoilers), but compared to S5-6, not too bad (I assume also s7 but tbh I did stop right at stick or twist for that season)

So fyi when I played Casa, I had my MC go for Shawn most of it, and then last minute switched to Max because I remembered she's a musician and I thought that would be cute. That being said, I wish it was like in the too hot to handle game where you unlock certain dialogue if you happen to have something in common with a character. Because why is Max explaining music stuff to my musician MC?

is Hari not an LI? Because they made him seem like one and then just all of a sudden we're not talking about him, it's only about Jin and Casa Boy. And I'm fine with not all the boys being LIs, but it is odd the way he's just shoved to the side in the story

Okay so I'm writing this as I'm playing and it seems like maybe he is. They just forget to mention him most of the time.

Hari and Hazel are a hot couple though. like I don't love Hari's design but like if he was drawn better?? I see it.

the swimming game is a fun idea but imagining everyone splashing around to get to MC is so funny. like I can hear it in my head and it's not the best game, but for the fictional game in the app it's fine.

although why tf is Theo suddenly interested in MC? I haven't been romancing him at all but for the chat at the pool I couldn't decide between any of the characters I'm actually kind of interested in so I had MC go talk to Theo and then he was also flirting? then the pool game he also thinks MC has the best chat?? sir I barely know you

omg not emel deflecting the drama to Claudia (and it's about her hookup with MC???) oof this is the drama I crave I think we're gonna need a movie night soon

so not too bad yet I just hope these storylines can come through!!

[scummy-writes]

🧸 🥑 🐝 and 🌸?

- 🏯 anon

Ohhh, I havent had a '[blank] anon' in a while! Thank u!

🧸 ⇢ what's the fastest way to become your mutual?

I think that depends on how you define 'mutual'. The cold cut standard definition is two blogs following each other, but to be blunt I don't follow many blogs. With my current main account, I follow...200 people? And I would say only 20% is ikefandom, and 70% of the other blogs are inactive or barely post.

I have a lot of people i am close to or friends with, but we don't follow each other. I still call em mutuals though since 'mutual' seems to be interchangeable with 'friend' now.

Anyway, fastest way- unsure! Just start chattin with me and see if we hit it off. I tend not to follow a lot of people because I genuinely cannot tell if people want me interacting with them, or because they reblog a lot from people I am not fond of.

🥑 ⇢ you accidentally killed somebody, which mutual(s) do you text for help?

@crystal13unny HAHA she has Connections.

🐝 ⇢ tag your biggest supporter(s) and say one nice thing about them

This may be a bit of a cop-out answer, but I have a Lot of people that I think support me. There are usernames back from my mysme days that will randomly show up in my notes again and say something nice to me, there are folks who will leave lengthy comments to let me know they enjoyed what I wrote, there are people I chat with who I can pitch an idea to and they'll support it, theres the random kind anons, everyone who reblogs and likes my fanfics, etc... it just goes on and on, to where I'd at least wanna tag 20 people, and its. 2am right now.

I consider folks like that to be my biggest supporters, and longterm friends who enjoy supporting me as well. I am very thankful towards yall!!!!

🌸 ⇢ do you have any pets? if you do, post some pictures of them

Vic :)

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

(non spn watcher here) when did destial become a canon love story with writer intent? like was there more destiel-ness in the season leading up to the nov 5th confession?

Okay *cracks knuckles*.

First and foremost, I'm gonna tell you about my SPN history. I started watching SPN and got caught up with the show while s10 was airing and was watching live until the end of s12. I gave up specifically because Castiel's s11 plot proved to be just on the side of too miserable for me, and s12 didn't really make it any better (Cas dies at the end of that season). During this time, and until Nov 5th 2020, I was solidly on camp "Dean and Cas are never going to be canon just because of what SPN is fundamentally as a show, and even if they did, I cannot imagine a situation where it would be a good thing for Cas given SPN's track record on how they treat the angel."

When Nov 5th happened I was sucked back into the show. In preparation for the finale I watched all of s13-15 in the two weeks between the confession episode and the finale. Again, my perspective going into this endeavour was still very doubtful and pessimistic, specifically on the Dean side of the equation.

The beginning of s13 was a bit of a shock to me, honestly. It starts with what the fandom calls 'The Widower's Arc'. I think this was the arc that most solidly cements the feelings from Dean's side. It was so vehement in pointing out that Dean feels for Cas in a way so distinguished from how Sam does. In the very first episode of the season (so the first episode I watched after going back into SPN), Dean quietly wraps Cas' body with a curtain all by himself in a sunlit room. And I go Oh. Okay.

This vibe does wane after Cas comes back and regular SPN hijinks ensues. S14 actually ends with Dean and Cas fighting and Dean doing his usual Dean-isms. 15.03 is when that fight culminates: they break up and spend a couple episodes apart from each other.

15.09 The Trap features Dean and Cas in purgatory, and this was Truly An Episode. They bicker through-out the entire thing and are pretty pissed at one another, but then Cas gets taken, and Dean desperately prays to him, confesses his anger issues, forgives Cas and asks for forgiveness back. Later, they reunite, and Cas acknowledges that he heard everything Dean said.

This episode is so interesting to me because it culminates the Dean and Cas fight-separation-reconciliation plot of s15, and in doing so confirms it to be as important as it is. I cannot point enough that the plot reasons for the stuff happening in 15.09 is so pointless. They go to purgatory for a fetch quest for an item that can be interchangeable with literally anything else, specifically to put Dean and Cas back in purgatory (a meaningful place for them), have them be separated, and have the prayer happen. The whole point of the Dean and Cas portion of the episode is to do character work. We don't even see the scene where Cas finally gets the thing they're here to acquire in the first place. That's literally not the point. The point is Cas and Dean's story. S15 is the last season of a show with so many big things to wrap up, and they make it a point to have Dean and Cas go through a half-season arc that DOES occupy so much of the season and brings a new openness, vulnerability, and room for development into their relationship.

So yeah, before 15.18 there WAS very visible marks of the fact that Something was gonna happen. Interestingly enough all those marks were pretty dean-centric. I would say s4-10 destiel is the audience being inundated that Cas loves Dean. S11-15, ESPECIALLY 13-15 is so very much making it known that Dean loves Cas too.

On a related note, on Nov 21, 2020, a post is made here on tumblr claiming that around Dec 2016 (S12 was airing at this point), Warner Bros. conducted a market research about Supernatural, and from this person's experience, specifically about Dean and Cas and Dean's sexuality (link to a post that confirms the information in the post to be true). This market research was during the time leading up to s13, which I think does mark a big change in how the love between Dean and Cas started being framed by the show as something Dean both feels and is also aware of.

So, to answer your questions.

Was there more destiel-ness in the season leading up to the nov 5th confession? Yes.

When did destiel become a canon love story with writer intent? It became a canon love story by S15, but the writer intent to make it canon goes way back to s13 but probably even s12.

- Grey :))

[thevillagequeer]

Please don't think just because Destiny's Children turned into a cult of personality, they didn't follow the typical counterculture talking points of that era. Spirituality, sexual freedom, civil rights, women's equality, definitely liberal drug use on the followers' part, and you better believe Dave wasn't the only one who heard Klaus' warnings about the Vietnam war -- he had those statistics right at the top of his head. Also keep in mind the first major protests didn't start until 1964.

Oh honey darling sweatheart, no no no, i am so sorry its your ask that is going to be on the recieving end of this onslaught you've just walked into the intersection of everything that makes my brain go brrrrrrr 

First of all, if we are going with the rule that klaus can't take part in things that hadn't at the time he was dropped into the past, he certainly cannot be starting a hippy dippy cult. Hell, he shouldn't be strutting around looking like a hippie either! 

If the beatles are still in liverpool, don't even think about the age of aquarius, you get what i'm saying?.  

Hippie culture was so heavily tied to the anti war movement for a multitude of reasons, you can't have the culture of one without the other. Its the same with music, its the same with the rise of cults in this era, it all ties back back to each other and none of these things were as we know them today until the mid to late 60s, certainly not prior to 1964 and definitely not 1960

So if its historically inaccurate to have Klaus fighting against the war in Vietnam in 1961, it's just as inaccurate for him to have started up a cult. 

But, for me at least, that doesn't matter one bit.  Because Klaus isn't a person of the 60s.  He was born nearly 3 decades after the fact. Everything he knows about this time, save for his ten months in the war itself, is how the rest of us learned.  Books, movies, music, the odd recollection from someone who lived through it, perhaps.

When you take someone with ideals influenced by a time or movement and put them into that time before those beliefs were created, it's nigh impossible to keep them from bringing those ideas in too early.

Its a common trope in time-travel fiction, but it's because characters are human. 

Most of them, at least, want to make the world a better place, and being put in the past feels like a key to that, because for once, you have a cheat sheet. No one knows what's going to happen in life, but now you do.  

Humans also love to impress.  They will play Chuck Berry at their parents prom years before it's released.  They will show someone the palm sized computer they can keep in their pocket that has more technology in it than what sent man to the moon.

And do we really think Klaus would be taking note of historical accuracy? The love of his life has less than a decade to live before dying tragically, he's just seen the world end, and for all he knows, he's the only one of his family who made it. If he knows there was a movement to stop the war, why the hell would he care if he joins it a couple years too early? 

Though, to be fair to the point, I will dive in a little bit to how the cults of the 60s functioned with the aesthetic Klaus and his followers adopted as well as with the anti war movement.

As you mentioned, all of this falls under what we now call the counterculture of the 1960s. It was called this because quite literally, it was *countering* the culture of the time.

the world the flower children of the 60s were born into was tight laced, kept up appearances, and abided by strict social rules.  they danced the foxtrot, they starched their shirts and sent their boys off to die.  

everything they did from then on was to fight against that. it was all an act of rebellion, an act of rejection. the status quo they were dying for needed to know they were not abiding

That's why the aesthetics of stereotypical cults and hippies were and honestly still often are used interchangeably, because a lot of cult leaders would use theseaesthetics and buzzwords to draw young, passionate folks in.

now, given how Klaus has an almost reverse view of all this, entering the decade with the knowledge of how it ends, this is how I can see him accidentally attracting a following by just bringing forth what the 60s were getting to, only sooner.

Because, honestly, if we are talking about cultural shifts and all that jazz and how that spurred these touchstones forward, if especially in line with season 2 of tua, the shift started when Kennedy was shot. That;s the turning point.

(As a history goof, i would argue that the real linchpin was the assassination of Robert Kennedy, not JFK, but we're not really talking about history history rn lol even though this is incredibly long already and I do apologize I just loveeeee this shit)

So, if Klaus wouldn't have been allowed to be an anti war activist prior to 1964, he couldn't be a cult leader in the way he was either. Because technically, historically, the true unrest of the 60s that spurred the attraction to cults, that got these social movements into unruly high gear, doesn't happen until the Hargreeves are all back together and Klaus has abandoned Destiny's Children. 

Charlie Manson wasn't getting shit into gear until around 1967 and the other well know American cult of the time that *did* run at the same time as Destiny's Children, the People's Temple (Jonestown ring any bells?) was specifically run as a Christian community under the guise of being marxist liberation. And they weren't even doing traditional cult shit until the mid-60s either. 

Now, onto Klaus. In s2, the cult is not much more than set dressing. It gives them a cool place to stay and a handful of characters to interact with. Either way you slice it, it was an underused aspect of the season.

But more importantly, what was the role the cult was supposed to fill in the story?

in my opinion it boils down to these points:

Klaus is a charismatic little bitch and he can attract all sorts of people to him with insane ease

Klaus is not good at dealing with things and instead throws his energy out to externalities, obsessions even

He needed to be infamous

Lets take stock of Klaus within the first days of arriving in Dallas, 1960

he is 59 years in the past with only his ghost brother 

they have just come an earth literal seconds away from total annihilation

days before his sibling ended the world, he was actually much closer to the time he is in now.  he's just spent 10 months in Vietnam, 1968

the last days in the war, he lost the love of his life to a gunshot wound to the chest.  he bled out in his arms.  

he's wearing bowling shoes

Literally, though, from Klaus' own words, we know he has never loved anyone like he loved Dave.  And now, he has nearly a decade to prevent his death.  

As viewers, we can see starting Destiny's Children as a distraction on Klaus' part, and that's understandable.  Who wouldn't want a lighthearted distraction to the tune of the summer of love? (which, again, wasn't until 1967 but..)

But, if we're to believe Klaus' goal of keeping Dave alive, shouldn't we also be inclined to think that maybe, even if it wasn't his intent, he was a bit too passionate about the cause to be read as anything but an anti war activist? That even if he tried to just blend in, he'd end up getting a little too heated in conversation? A little too pointed in what he said to kids debating on enlisting? Things that when overheard time and time again, would make certain people think he had a certain agenda?

Because really, what about Klaus in season 2 makes him a cult leader? The throngs of people? Fine, but why are they following him? The wild outfits? Sure, but that's just Klaus, isn't it? Even his followers seem to have taken more from him than he ever led them.  The whole time, it seems like Klaus attracted people with no intention of spreading shit.  He needed food and a place to stay, so he groveled.  It grew from there.  He got in over his head.  Because Klaus is smarter than he realizes.  Who the hell can accidentally start a cult? 

Anyway, its a disservice to the character.  because yes, its impressive, but what did it really do to further the character? we don't even get to see how it affected his relationship with substances! we are just told he's sober.  sober in the 1960s. in a supposedly hippie cult.  okkkkk. 

the plotline and concept on the whole just doesn't check any boxes and it doesn't add any depth.  that's why I am so critical of it.  I don't care if Klaus had a go at being an asshole cultist that he'd have to atone for, just if it's done well.  And it wasn't.  And I honestly do not believe it is in Klaus' character to act in that way.  That's why I think it would have made more sense for him to have ended up as an accidental activist rather than an accidental cult leader.  Because it'd be just as selfish– he'd be in it for one person and one person only. But maybe it wouldn't stay that way.  It'd lead to the same reach and infamy, without the blurriness and crude steterotyping and reliance on cheap humor.  

This got verryyyyy long and I bet it also makes 0 sense, but I do not have the braincells to try and make it more lucid, I'm sorry.  I just love both these topics very much sooooo a lot of words.  

If anyone ends up actually reading this you are amazing and I love you and we should probably be mutuals and talk