#there’s so much to be said about gods and their manipulation of the agency of mortals and of abuses of power and the humanity of it all

[dancingafterdark]

oh my gosh! thank you so much for your lovely (and very thorough!) reply! i had already perused a few of your linked metas, so i knew i was talking to one of the very few season 2 stans i’ve seen online and didn’t want to risk coming off as if i was barging into your house and being a bitch about it — like i said, i actually don’t HATE season 2, i just have an issue with certain plot points/characters that end up breaking my immersion a lot more than season 1 — which, contrary to all the hype surrounding it, was NOT a perfect masterpiece unworthy of critique either (nothing is), so it’s interesting talking with someone who actually prefers season 2 over 1. I’m actually curious about your tea regarding said specific character that “tainted your enjoyment”, because i think i have had a similar experience regarding one character in particular throughout the entire show, including s1 and i actually think s2 wrote their character better conceptually if not with the. best execution, but i shan’t say their name aloud lest i get eviscerated :skull: 

okay, okay: looooong, rambling, semi-coherent post/response incoming, so I’ll just put this here and here we gooo~

Re: the fandom (and show’s) downplaying of Jayce’s trauma, analysing Jayce’s most infamous moment, and Jayce’s s2 writing in general:

I heavily agree that episodes s02e07-9 did a MAJOR service in helping “fix” Jayce’s reputation and gain him more grace/sympathy compared to how he was received in season 1 — note that i wasn’t HERE when season 1 aired, i hopped on only about a week after the finale aired and binged both seasons in about three days, but i have heard the stories and witnessed the Jayce Wars — and while i jokingly say i hate him and Viktor and Mel could do better by getting with ME instead lmao, I don’t. Maybe this is a controversial take, but I think he had one of the more consistently written arc of any other character in this show across both seasons, even as you pointed out, his writing in Act III is. questionable, and it’s NOT because i think he’s Christian Linke’s self insert either: his mini “corruption arc” in s1 was very tightly written even if it left me frustrated at him, which any good show is supposed to do, especially in the hyped Morally Grey Show™ with (allegedly) morally grey characters. I say people downplay his ravine trauma because i HAVE seen firsthand people disregard things such as his disability, saying that a broken leg isn’t “a big deal” — which I WILL blame on the show for being kinda bleg regarding its treatment of other freshly physically disabled characters throughout the season such as Salo or Jinx — and also viewers not having a good grasp on HOW long Jayce was stuck down in that pit; a sadly reoccurring pattern for the show, as I don’t think some people understand how much time actually passed in Acts II-III of season one either, and that has led to an exaggeration of just how much time Jayce had spent on the council alongside the scale of his political influence, and i think season 2’s execution of its VAGUELY A FEW MONTHS LATER timeskip between acts wasn’t handled as gracefully compared to the seven year skip in season 1. This is also why i argue we could’ve and should’ve had more episodes, to help better convey the passage of time beyond [shudders] music video montages, but i’m getting off topic.

It’s strange to see how...flippant the fandom is regarding the treatment of Jayce’s psyche, particularly due to his upbringing, and that has led to him being treated less sympathetically compared to other, more “pitiable” characters like Viktor or Jinx; i’m especially perplexed how the fandom took him accidentally killing a child during the Shimmer factory raid and ran with it to paint him as this psychopathic kid killer when, not only was he visibly distressed even long after he did it, it was an essential moment of character growth alongside a turning point in his arc — alongside the infamous bridge scene:

Yes, the blockade was objectively an awful thing to do and a gross usage of his newly-gained political power, as was his comments regarding how Viktor violating it affects his image and that people from the undercity are “dangerous”, and this is something show and character himself in the scene acknowledges was a step too far, but i think people zero in on him showing his ass towards Viktor (an offense punishable by death on its own) and not on the contextual reasonings as to WHY he put up the blockade in the first place; again, i think this is people forgetting how long season 1 realistically is, because chronologically, just a couple of nights before, a known terrorist not only had broken into their lab and made off in possession of what is essentially a magical atomic bomb powder keg while almost murdering his best friend/little sister in the process and said terrorist will go to commit a massacre on that very bridge while almost murdering his best friend again only a few hours following his and Viktor’s argument — a massacre he gets a VERY up close and personal view of the aftermath of the next morning, mind you (i know we’re all ACAB here and love Jinx, but, again, I think the fandom and the show later on kinda forgot that she was objectively a villain in season 1 — a complex and VERY sympathetic one, mind you, but a villain nonetheless), and you add on to his already established overprotectiveness and his distress over Viktor — who he had recently learned was on death’s door and is already critically frail in body and health — already having disappeared without a trace (“he does that sometimes”, he says while brooding in the forge, with a very deliberate closeup of his frustrated and conflicted expression) and his added conflicted feelings and the pressure put on him following his dethroning Heimerdinger and becoming the new, as Mel points out to him, “the defacto head of the Council” when he was, even just a few nights ago, simply a celebrity figure who doesn’t fully understand nor is particularly interested in playing politics, then I think writing all of THAT down into a timeline puts his more questionable actions during even that scene into perspective just as much as his unchecked Piltie privilege, even if it does make me want to tear my hair out and punch him in the teeth during the scenes where he shows his ass — which again, as frustrating as he may be, is a GOOD thing, because having a negative reaction to a character doing/saying something awful, even in the heat of the moment, as intended shows the strength of the character writing throughout the series, and it once again points to one of Jayce’s most evident fatal flaws:

The man wears his bleeding heart on his sleeve and he WILL jump into doing reckless/harmful things for the sake of his loved ones, even if it hurts them in the process — it’s basically the thesis of the entire damn show, as Singed directly points out (“Why do we commit acts others deem unspeakable? For love” and…god, not on topic with this conversation, but I adore the Jayce/Silco/Singed parallels woven throughout this series so much, I wanna chew on it)

This is a nuance, and feel free to disagree with me here, that I feel gets kinda skewered in season 2, particularly in Act III — and not just with Jayce, but he’s the subject of this discussion, so I’ll be focusing on him here: we start off incredibly strong with the nonconsensual necromancy highlighting just how far Jayce will go to in the name of “saving Viktor” and while I lament us not spending more time with either character to explore their processing of his actions, I think it’s, as you pointed out, Jayce’s writing and specifically his incredibly cryptic lines throughout Act III that really gives me pause. I feel like the writers were trying to have their cake and eat it too by having Jayce play at being Viktor’s morally opposed enemy for a bit while also holding the plot twist regarding Jayce’s actual intentions a bit too close to their chest, because some of his lines during the council room fight just seem. I don’t know, kinda detrimental to his end goal? That is why i don’t personally like his attitude or dialogue during the fight scene: sure, seeing him act all aggressive is (and i will be shameless here lmao) hot as fuck, we have external factors to justify his behaviour such as him being keyed-up while being caught mid-arguement with Mel + the Mage spamming the PTSD flashback button on repeat, and his lines make sense for that scene in the moment — but in hindsight, with the context of his promise to the Mage being not just to atone for their actions and prevent the robot apocalypse, but to also bring Viktor back to his humanuty, constantly being on the offensive when he’s still not too far gone yet is only going to push him on the defense and, oh, look at that: he’s now fully abandoned his humanity for godhood all because you blamed him for abusing the connection you tethered to him via the Hexcore without his consent, told him he was basically dead to you, and shot him AGAIN — and now you wanna appeal to his inner humanity with puppy dog eyes, an ethics debate, and a “i know there’s a part of you still in there”?? jesus christ, Jayce; viktor, please, stand UP—

(Then again, I think the writers also forgot about Viktor’s ✨magic touch✨ as well, or simply didn’t properly establish how that ability was limited as he further “evolved”; another point to THIS SHOW NEEDED MORE GODDAMN EPISODES: I would’ve KILLED for the time at the commune to be spread out over more than a single episode, if only to more properly establish Viktor’s limits — perhaps as a two-parter? Oh, to dream. So I make a conscious effort to tune out all but only the most shiptastic dialogue and behaviours during that scene and choose to focus on Viktor’s glorious thigh action instead, lmao—)

And yes, HARD agree that the show kinda just…skips over Jayce’s attempt early on, especially since it’s heavily implied that he successfully went through with it in the happytimes AU; yet again, another reason why I’m baffled why the fandom fixated over his accidental killing of a child to paint him as a murderous kid-killing madman as it’s made clear that his negligence in handling his crystals leading directly to the death of a child — even in a freak accident he couldn’t have prevented unless he knew that said child was planning on breaking into his apartment with the intent of robbing him blind — would have contributed to his spiraling mental health and decision to end it all just as much as the political fallout and scandal of a Zaunite child dying on topside grounds and his subsequent exile; now, whether or not this universe’s version of Viktor tried to or could even make it in time to prevent him from jumping is another story, but, as Mage Viktor said, in all timelines, in all possibilities — this is just one path that didn’t end happily for our men of progress. Now, I DO have. hm, issues with the finale having three of our four main characters who have expressed suicidal intentions throughout the show choosing to heroically sacrifice themselves for “the sake of others/the world” as the culmination of their character arcs, but excluding that fact that Jinx’s survival and basically guaranteed return is the worst kept secret in the writing room, I can’t feasibly see Jayvik’s arc ending any other way either: even if we did go down the path of “friends to lovers to enemies” that their League counterparts did or how the released initial storyboards were implying, I cannot see an ending where one killed and then was forced to go on living without the other as a happy ending, or even a satisfying one — their stories are simply too connected to have ever ended any other way if they had to die.

Speaking of…

Re: mage viktor my beloved, fate, tropes + storytelling, and a big ball of timey-wimey…stuff

again, this is another case where i’m probably seeing the more critical posts on this matter or am simply spending too much time on arcanetwt (do NOT recommend: your brain will turn to mush and leak out your ears just ten minutes of scrolling “hot takes“, save yourselves—); actually, funnily enough, there actually has been ongoing debate over there regarding the Mage twist, his actions, and the exact same trolley problem you had brought up for the past couple of days. Now, I LOVE the twist personally and am fascinated by Mage Viktor, for reasons I’ll further detail below, but for the sake of argument, let’s entertain the idea that the Mage deliberately doomed Jayce and had been playing an active role by pulling the strings so that Jayce ends up playing the exact role he planned for him (he didn’t, but let’s pretend): I still don’t like this take because it essentially robs Jayce of all of his agency. Furthermore, arguing over whether or not who “doomed” who in this equation misses the point of their story entirely, and that point is: Jayce and Viktor’s paths were always destined to end this way.

Jayce was already doomed with or without Viktor’s influence, and vice-versa: whether he dies alone with his also dying mother in a freak blizzard without ever having been touched by magic, or by taking his own life once his research and scientific pursuits backfire onto him, and likewise, Viktor was doomed to die and go down a dark path in hopes of prolonging his lifespan even if Jayce never merged him with the Hexcore; and while you can argue that, what with their being infinite possibilities, there are hypothetical timelines where Jayce and Ximena never got trapped in that blizzard and the former went on to live a happy, successful life as a blacksmith or merchant following in the footsteps of his father, or Viktor never left Zaun, continued to work with Singed to perfect Shimmer, and was able to heal himself that way — all very fun “what-if” AUs to explore — I feel that focusing on hypotheticals still misses the point of the Mage’s words: “in ALL timelines, in ALL possibilities”. And I have reasons to take his word for it because, while he may be an all-powerful time traveling god in this form, he is still Viktor and therefore he is still a scientist at heart, which I feel quite a few people in the fandom ignore: we have no reason to believe that he has not exhausted every possible option or factor across all of time and space only to come to the same conclusion — no matter how far their paths diverge, Jayce and Viktor will always inevitably meet at a fixed point of origin that will lead to the end of the world. That’s why I don’t personally fw the whole “the Mage is manipulating Jayce to clean up his mess” take or the sentiment that “well, if the Mage never gave Jayce the rune in the first place, this never would have happened” because, well, for one, I highly doubt this was an outcome Mage Viktor even wanted to come to in the first place — look at his expressions in that scene in the finale, the inflection of his voice — but also, once again, this take robs Jayce of his agency throughout the entirety of the show, and I. don’t like that. With or without his emotional support shiny rock, Jayce would’ve either gone onto be so enchanted by magic that he’d try to recreate it, or he’d be dead: the rune played very little of a part in that process because Jayce Talis, alleged himbo, is above all else: 1) INCREDIBLY intelligent and was able to successfully recreate the runes he’d seen the Mage produce down to a science despite only seeing them briefly when he was only three apples tall, alongside nearly having already cracked Hextech before he met Viktor that fateful day, and 2) INCREDIBLY stubborn and headstrong: once he has a goal, he sets his mind to it and with or without the rune, he will find a way to bring magic to the world, goddamnit, even in a roundabout manner. Both him and Viktor connect so well because they are stupidly determined in their aspirations and enable the shit out of one another when locked in a room together despite their drastically different paths in life, like two magnets destined to meet despite their contrasting charges, which is why the twist works so well in my opinion: hell, even our Viktor, in his dying moments in The Message Hidden Within the Pattern, comes to the exact same conclusion (“...two sides of the same coin, inextricably bound…”) even if the message he gets from it is: emotions and humanity sucks and is the root of all evil, good intentions be damned, i’m ascending to the divine bad news about the divine—

Onto the matter of WHY people seem to dislike the twist that i’ve seen firsthand, it usually comes down to a few crucial factors: “it should’ve been [insert other League character] here instead” or the OP has many gripes regarding the time travel part of it all, which…yeah, I get it, even if I disagree. I usually see people argue that Viktor was never planned to be the Mage and that the twist was a retcon based on the fact that some redditors (of course) claimed that the leaked model of the Mage in season 1 heavily resembled Ryze + connecting his established LoL background regrading his handling of runes, to which…okay, ignoring the fact that I am a filthy, disgusting CASUAL who has never touched a league of legends in my life and whose eyes glaze over when skimming the wiki pages, people are aware that creatives can just…put things into their projects deliberately to throw off the audience, right? Have we forgotten Alex Hirsch faking an entire leak controversy to protect the most important plot twist of his show because he and his team had already noticed that viewers were not dumb and some had even already figured out the reveal only eight episodes in (and this was in 2014, mind you)? The point is, these creative teams know that viewers are not stupid and made a point to leave just as many clues hinting towards Viktor being the magic from the beginning than they did it being Ryze or any other League character not directly involved in the story they’d otherwise have to scramble to introduce: from the use of his and Jayce’s leitmotifs throughout the essential scenes to the blatant foreshadowing of Viktor being represented by the magician card. Furthermore, there are more direct character motivations behind this writing decision that are also crucial as to why the “Viktor shouldn’t have been the mage” argument falls apart to me personally: why the hell would Jayce have listened to anyone other than Viktor? We’ve seen firsthand how defensive Jayce gets towards anyone that dares to even question Viktor’s safety, so why would Jayce listen to a random stranger — even one who had saved his life in the past and directly inspired him — when he had Heimerdinger, his mentor, exiled for simply threatening to have the one thing that could save Viktor destroyed? And furthermore, why would someone like Ryze, who knows firsthand of the danger of the runes’ power, entrust the fate of the world, let alone hand one of to a random child without another word or warning him of the dangers of pursuing magic? I also feel like some people interpret the creators’ comments that “the only one who could defeat Viktor is himself” as meaning that if Viktor wanted to prevent the robot apocalypse, he should have interacted with Viktor directly instead of relying on Jayce, rather than the fact that this much older and wiser version of Viktor has recognized that Jayce truly is the only one who could reason with Viktor and help him see his humanity because he realizes now how much Jayce well and truly loves him.

But even then, I feel all of this this is still ignoring the crucial elephant in the room, and that is:

Arcane is, first and foremost, an adaptation and as any good adaptation should do, it needs to be easily accessible to casual viewing audiences as it is to hardcore fans as to not alienate or confuse non-League players.

Granted, I also feel the advertising of Arcane as a wholesale prequel to LoL rather than as what it actually is — an AU — to play just as much as fault as it is mismanaged fan expectations: even in season 1, there are quite a few major writing decisions that contradict established League lore such as Vi no longer having amnesia a writing decision i’d have preferred given how dirty the actual writing of the show did her, the distinct lack of heavily pivotal characters such as Blitzcrank, Zeri, Ezreal, Camille Ferros, Stanwick, etc., Piltover being connected to Zaun through the bridge rather than being built directly on top of it, or Viktor’s transhumanism dabblings being more biomechanical/magic based rather than the traditional cyborg narrative of his League counterpart, etc. and all of this contributed to the slightly more high concept elements in-line with the game narrative introduced in season 2 such as the Black Rose plotline not being very highly received by casual viewers on the account of it being “too confusing” and people generally not liking having to do homework to understand basic plot points (speaking from experience as an MCU survivor lmao) — so why the hell would the writers take the time and risk with the already crammed finale to make the Mage anyone else other than an already established character in the narrative for a little bit of fanservice, especially with the story they wanted to tell?

I mean, hell, I’ve already seen a semi-popular(?) Arcane focused video essayist (whose name i won’t mention but you can find relatively easily) in their critique of season 2 bemoan how “complicated” Jayce and Viktor’s plot is in s2 compared to the more “relatible” conflict of the sisters because it focuses on concepts like fate and time-travel and, well…maybe I’m just a stupid English major, but I don’t personally think jayvik’s narrative is any more complicated once you divorce it from the more high concept magic and fate elements — but then again, this same person complained about the finale following basic, “predictable” tropes and conventions they thought Arcane (y’know, the steampunk sci-fi fantasy television show) was “too good” for, so what do I know? i’m not a YouTuber, lmao. Point of the matter: I do feel like people forget that Jayce and Viktor are also the protagonists of this story, so of course they would play a crucial role in the magic-centered element of the plot that they kickstarted in the first place while the sisters’ conflict is more intimate and family-oriented — you don’t have to like it or wish it went another way more en route with your theories, but that is just how this story was told. Ah, but I think i’m harping on this point enough as is.

Regarding time-travel plotline, I’m going to be blunt here: I don’t care for them, but I also care even less for nitpicking them — even the most tightly written scripts involving the matter can have plot holes or contradictions. Considering Ekko also deals with time travel as his power-set, I’m less bothered about it and the multiverse being explored or crucial to the plot of Arcane than other people. Sure, you can argue that Mage Viktor’s existence is a paradox or whatever, but choosing to get hung up over the schematics rather than the actual themes of the story is…eh, it’s not something I have the energy for, but other people are allowed to analyze as they wish.

Re: the goddamn music video montages

I don’t have much to add here: i’m just happy to meet somebody else who didn’t enjoy the fucking music video segments lmaoo; sure, stylistically, they’re incredible (especially the watercolour one, holy shit) and most of the season 2 soundtrack is absolute bangers so I can understand wanting to show it off — and if you allow me to put on my tinfoil cap, I suspect the increased use of them in season 2 versus season 1 to be a budget thing, considering there were allegedly already crucial cuts being made in the writing department alone, but that’s just a theory (a gAY THEORY-). I just. don’t like them: rushing through crucial scenes like Vander’s recovery process, the timeskip, Isha bonding with Jinx, or like, everything involving Vi, her time on the Enforcers and the fallout her Act I ending, all scenes that imo should’ve been properly spaced out into their own arcs, alongside them quite literally giving me a headache from overstimulation. The over reliance of them is also strange considering season 1, unless my memory is betraying me (it’s been a few months since my last rewatch, admittedly) there was only two flashy music video segments in the entire season and both were in episode 7: all the other scenes that showcased the soundtrack either had them simply as background tracks or the songs were diegetic [shudders in arcanified Imagine Dragons cameo]

re: MOAR EPISODES + the future of jayvik

i agree that even season 1, for as tightly written it was to support its three act structure compared to season 2 imo, also suffered from a critical lack of episodes — i really wish we had more screentime dedicated to Vi readjusting to life after spending seven years falsely imprisoned in high max solitary confinement or exploring her relationship with Caitlyn (sorry to be a hater, but i was not invested in their relationship because of how rushed it was in s1, which was why i was so excited going into s2 seeing where it would go…welp-), everything involving Mel and her relationships with Ambessa and Jayce (as well as them establishing the Black Rose stuff much earlier in the narrative), and, like. just anything involving Sky so that her fridging is a little more palatable [sighs and takes a drag of my cigar] oh, if only…

I also agree that season 2 definitely added a lot more context to moments of s1 as well; granted, most of these are in relation to jayvik because I am filthy shipping trash lmao, and there are some elements added that I’m personally not a fan of such as Vander and Silco’s additional backstory, but considering Arcane was the first major project for a lot of the writers on staff, I can only hope they take the criticism they’ve already received and apply it to other future projects set in this universe — including knowing how to pace out their elaborate stories a bit better. Regarding the possibility Jayce and Viktor returning in these proposed spin-offs, I actually think there’s a lot of narrative potential to explore with them once the adrenaline high of, y’know, saving the world wears off, especially since I’d think they’d have a lot of unresolved trauma they’d also have to unpack and work on — Jayce’s time stuck in the ravine, Viktor regaining his humanity or being permanently stuck in his Herald form and having to readjust after being stuck in the arcane under the influence of the Hexcore for so long, Jayce having gone back on his word and his guilt over hurting Viktor several times even if it was to save him, possible jealousy on Viktor’s part towards the Mage and trying to figure out his own magic if he still has it; all avenues that I adore reading about in post-canon AUs that i think could make for juicy spin-off material, just as long as the writers carefully read the Do Not Separate label before proceeding.

On a lighter note, I once read someone propose that if they were to return in a future spin-off, that they’d only appear on screen via random background cameos a la Rapunzel and Eugene chilling in Arendelle in crowd shots during the first Frozen movie, just living their best life and being in love, and I think that idea is fucking ADORABLE (even if the writers are too cowardly to actually do it). But as it is, i’m largely satisfied with the ending we have for jayvik for now <3 after all, what’s a sweeter ending than tenderly holding your partner in the infinite embrace of the arcane?

OKAY! I think that’s all i’ve got in me for now (who knows: i might remember something i forgot at three in the morning lmao) — i’ve had to retype all of This at least three times because tumblr decided it’s allergic to me interacting directly with this post at all 🥲 bless you for such a lovely, well thought-out response! I hope what I added to this dialogue doesn’t read weirdly; I originally sent my ask while en route to a doctor’s appointment to get a nerve block injection in my head and now I’m recovering from it with an icepack in one hand and my phone in another, so things may sound a bit jumbled rn. Lovely to meet and open this discussion with all of you; I love this show so much, and even my more negative criticism comes wholeheartedly from a place of love for both this world and these characters, but I’m also incredibly shy irl, so interacting directly with the fandom is a herculean task for me 😭 so thank you for having me — I really do appreciate your perspective! i may be more critical of season 2 than you are, but I really think having an open dialogue really does help the fandom as a whole, as well as introduce me to so many fascinating people in the process!

(p.s. i know my handle is a bit of a mouthful, so for brevity’s sake — you can call me MK <3)

I think one of the biggest missed opportunities in S2 imo was not making Jayce’s time in the ravine a bottle episode. As it stands in the show we got, I’m fine with it being where it is and think the “Jayce in dark souls” contrast with Ekko is hilarious, but i think even cramming it in like they did has led to some viewers downplaying his trauma and the vague timeline of events only being segmented a la montage didn’t really help — and that’s not even getting into Mage Viktor’s role in all of this. It’s obvious when some people haven’t rewatched the show in a while since it came out, since there appears to be this narrative being spread around now villainizing the Mage, saying that he had “doomed” Jayce either through giving him the mission in the first place, or is trying to paint Jayce as a victim who only stayed with Viktor out of “obligation” for his mission or even people saying that he had groomed Jayce (god, I hate how flippantly that word is used nowadays), and I think that’s because, even foregoing the twist at the end, we just didn’t spend enough time with the Mage to establish his motivations even for a bait and switch. Now, while I know not a lot of viewers like him, either because they think the twist is stupid or they’re just salty it wasn’t Ryze (as if shoving in more League lore would magically fix the writing or pacing problems this season lmao), I actually think Mage Viktor ended up being one of the more compelling characters for me to come out of s2 because of how little we know about him and how he got where he did, but obviously not everyone feels that way and while I’m not saying the writers should’ve showed their hands entirely — because, regardless of the logistics, that reveal still was one of the better executed imo and hits incredibly hard, especially on repeat viewings — I also just wanted to see more of this character and the eerie, desolate world that Jayce was thrusted into.

There’s also the meta reasoning that we, the audience, would simply have more time to sit on the information being processed before being thrown back into Plot Stuff™: I hate the internet for what it did to the word “filler” and acting like character focused episodes over strictly plot-driven episodes is a sign of bad or “lazy” writing, because even in a show as plot heavy as Arcane, allowing moments of reprieve actually allows your audience to process what’s being shown onscreen rather than having a million things thrown at you or having crucial character arcs condensed into music video montages — lemme also just pour one out for specifically my girl Vi real quick because she was done so dirty. Now, you can argue that we simply just didn’t have enough time to explore little moments of R&R with the characters (ignoring the fact that s1 was also nine episodes here), that just points to the crucial problem of s2 in my opinion in that we simply had too much stuff going on. In a perfect world, to me anyway, we would’ve had at least another season or the finale releasing separately to the rest of the season as a two-hour special. Now, while I didn’t love s2 as much as s1, I also don’t think it’s unsalvageable or ruined the show either — in fact, there’s a lot of moments I love conceptually or standalone, and that’s why I think the choice to prioritize twists/big moments over smaller, more intimate character scenes hurts all the more, but with whatever ends up coming out of this universe in the future, we could wind up looking back at this season with a newfound appreciation. But if this is the last we see of Jayce or Viktor — if not forever, then for a while — I’m saddened that we weren’t allowed more time with them, especially since the core emotional moment of the finale hinges on them, and even on repeat rewatches, it’s very evident that the writing of Jayce especially in Act III is heavily reliant on the execution of the twist and even then, some of his lines are still confusing to me (“everything you did to these people you did alone” is one that confounds me, even from a place of rationalizing Jayce’s cryptic behaviour throughout the last two episodes as a front for toxic yaoi’s sake). All this, and I feel like letting Jayce have a moment to really reflect on him murdering Viktor and maybe even giving him a moment with Ximena was such obvious tearjerker material that I’m shocked the writers didn’t go for it.

Gah, my apologies for rambling so much in your inbox. I’m genuinely not trying to be a negative nancy like how a lot of people are about Arcane s2 and act pissy because the show didn’t go in the direction I wanted — writing is my passion and all of my critiques come from a place of genuine love. I guess I’m just throwing this out there for the sake of discussion? Do with this what you will, I’m just some random nobody on tumblr.com XD

Ooooh long ask - I love it! I will try to respond to everything you wrote, but incase I miss something - apologies in advance <3. Since you were mainly talking about S2, I have to give a little disclaimer: I am one of the few people on here (at least from what I've seen) who prefers S2. I wrote a #personal post about why that is; if you are interested you can find it on my profile, tagged as such. TL;DR I am NOT objective when it comes to S2 or S1. Because while the first season objectively has less flaws, there is one character that tainted my enjoyment of it on my first my first watch ( I am still debating on wether I want to get into that on my blog in a post someday, but that's neither here nor there). So yeah, just a heads up that I am somewhat biased :) I think one of the biggest missed opportunities in S2 imo was not making Jayce’s time in the ravine a bottle episode. As it stands in the show we got, I’m fine with it being where it is and think the “Jayce in dark souls” contrast with Ekko is hilarious, but i think even cramming it in like they did has led to some viewers downplaying his trauma and the vague timeline of events only being segmented a la montage didn’t really help — and that’s not even getting into Mage Viktor’s role in all of this

I adore bottle episodes. They are usually among my fave ones in any show, because the reduction of elements really allows good writing to shine. So, a Jayce ravine bottle episode? Hell yes. About downplaying Jayces trauma - I still think that episode actually helped make people like Jayce more than before (which is not saying that the montage etc was the best way to do it) - whereas most viewers on the first watch (including me) completely glossed over the fact that he tried to kill himself in S1 and failed to empathize or even understand Jayces character. I wrote a whole post about my thoughts on this - I hope it's okay if I just link it here. It’s obvious when some people haven’t rewatched the show in a while since it came out, since there appears to be this narrative being spread around now villainizing the Mage, saying that he had “doomed” Jayce either through giving him the mission in the first place, or is trying to paint Jayce as a victim who only stayed with Viktor out of “obligation” for his mission or even people saying that he had groomed Jayce (god, I hate how flippantly that word is used nowadays), and I think that’s because, even foregoing the twist at the end, we just didn’t spend enough time with the Mage to establish his motivations even for a bait and switch. All I can say is that arguments about who "doomed" who are really irrelevant when it comes to Jayvik. Idk if it's a perfect analogy, but it kind of reminds me of the trolley problem - there is no correct answer. Should mage!viktor have let Jayce die as a child? Should he not have saved him from suicide later? What about how Jayce doomed Viktor and by proxy himself, by ignoring his wishes? I think there are several valid positions for people to hold about this if they want to philosophize about what they would or would not have done in either one of those situations. BUT you shouldn't project it onto what the show explicitly depicted: Which is a) Jayce looking in awe when he sees mage!Viktor and neither scared nor angry b) Viktor giving Jayce the choice to leave and c) Jayce clearly stating that he wants to stay with him. Now, while I know not a lot of viewers like him, either because they think the twist is stupid or they’re just salty it wasn’t Ryze (as if shoving in more League lore would magically fix the writing or pacing problems this season lmao), I actually think Mage Viktor ended up being one of the more compelling characters for me to come out of s2 because of how little we know about him and how he got where he did, but obviously not everyone feels that way and while I’m not saying the writers should’ve showed their hands entirely — because, regardless of the logistics, that reveal still was one of the better executed imo and hits incredibly hard, especially on repeat viewings — I also just wanted to see more of this character and the eerie, desolate world that Jayce was thrusted into I am not sure if the majority of people really dislike the reveal, or if it is mainly those who are more involved in fandom or league lore. At least from people in my real life, I have never heard anyone disliking the reveal - quite the opposite.

Speaking for myself, I’ve never liked time travel plots — they often feel like a lazy cop-out. That said, this one actually works. It ties together several elements the show had already set up, and does so beautifully through a single character. Mage!Viktor’s message distills all the other storylines into one simple, tragically unsatisfying — yet strangely life-affirming — truth.

I also find it interesting that while he’s literally a mage, he actually aligns more with the archetype of the sage. To me, Commune Viktor embodies the show’s magician archetype (as hinted at in that one Sevika scene with the cards), whereas Mage!Viktor represents what happens when that magician archetype becomes too successful in reshaping the world. He even says as much himself. It really makes me think about how Viktor cycles through multiple archetypes over the course of the show — always orbiting around the hero archetype embodied by Jayce.

Sorry for suddenly going off about archetypes — but all this to say: Mage!Viktor doesn’t deserve the hate he gets, in my opinion. He’s a smart addition to the story and leaves a strong impact despite his limited screen time.

There’s also the meta reasoning that we, the audience, would simply have more time to sit on the information being processed before being thrown back into Plot Stuff™: I hate the internet for what it did to the word “filler” and acting like character focused episodes over strictly plot-driven episodes is a sign of bad or “lazy” writing, because even in a show as plot heavy as Arcane, allowing moments of reprieve actually allows your audience to process what’s being shown onscreen rather than having a million things thrown at you or having crucial character arcs condensed into music video montages — lemme also just pour one out for specifically my girl Vi real quick because she was done so dirty. Again, I am all with you on this. Filler episodes only feel like "filler" if the writing isn't on point - and because Arcane has skilled writers, I think their work gets better, the more it is allowed to breath. I am also glad you mentioned the music video montages. I am not a fan of those. They are very cool visually - hats off to the animators - but that's it imo. I also know they are a staple in the show, but I do wonder if both seasons wouldn't actually be better, if they replaced those with other scenes. As for Vi, all I am going to say is that I hardly remember her in S2. I think that speaks for itself. Now, you can argue that we simply just didn’t have enough time to explore little moments of R&R with the characters (ignoring the fact that s1 was also nine episodes here), that just points to the crucial problem of s2 in my opinion in that we simply had too much stuff going on. In a perfect world, to me anyway, we would’ve had at least another season or the finale releasing separately to the rest of the season as a two-hour special.

When I finished watching S1 and was talking to my friend who had recommended it to me, I remember saying how I felt like the show needed two more episodes (therefore making it 11) to really work for me. So S2 definitely could have done with at least 2 more, but realistically more like 3-4. I have to say though, while I was watching I didn't really feel like there was too much going on for me plot wise. I enjoy when the world opens up and the scale becomes bigger. The thing is though, back then I didn't know there wasn't going to be S3, so I got excited about the new things they threw in because I thought I was watching the midway point of the story - not its conclusion. So yes, agreed, in a perfect world Arcane would have had another season. I am still hopeful that they will give us what was missing in the spin offs (more on that in the next paragraph) Now, while I didn’t love s2 as much as s1, I also don’t think it’s unsalvageable or ruined the show either — in fact, there’s a lot of moments I love conceptually or standalone, and that’s why I think the choice to prioritize twists/big moments over smaller, more intimate character scenes hurts all the more, but with whatever ends up coming out of this universe in the future, we could wind up looking back at this season with a newfound appreciation.

This is exactly what I’m hoping for too — especially because I had a similar experience with Season 1 while watching Season 2. The added context really elevated a lot for me. And now, Season 2 itself has so much potential to be elevated by the spin-offs. I just hope they do it justice, because honestly, S2 is special to me — and I don’t want it to remain just potential. But if this is the last we see of Jayce or Viktor — if not forever, then for a while — I’m saddened that we weren’t allowed more time with them, especially since the core emotional moment of the finale hinges on them, and even on repeat rewatches, it’s very evident that the writing of Jayce especially in Act III is heavily reliant on the execution of the twist and even then, some of his lines are still confusing to me (“everything you did to these people you did alone” is one that confounds me, even from a place of rationalizing Jayce’s cryptic behaviour throughout the last two episodes as a front for toxic yaoi’s sake). All this, and I feel like letting Jayce have a moment to really reflect on him murdering Viktor and maybe even giving him a moment with Ximena was such obvious tearjerker material that I’m shocked the writers didn’t go for it.

I feel like I end most of my metas by pointing out how there is so much more to be done with Viktor and Jayce narratively. That being said, if I was a writer I'd be a lot more confident on what to do with Viktor after the finale, than with Jayce. Partly, because of what you described - some of the things he says and does in Act 3 are...strange.

You can tell the writers wanted two contradictory things at once: tell a story about how Jayce has come to understand Viktors importance to him and the lengths he is willing to go to for that but also not make it too obvious because then the finale will lose its emotional impact. I think the only way to rectify this, would be to show more of his conversation with Mage!Viktor and that somehow explaining why Jayce was putting up the "toxic yaoi" front as you accurately called it lol. They could still do this in flashbacks in a spin off - or maybe even in the form of dialogue with Viktor, who knows. Unfortunately, I see one more problem with Jayces as character (that I don't see with Viktor at all) - because they kind of wrote themselves into a corner when they completed his arc with "now, all i want is my partner back." and him succeeding in that. Because assuming that him and Viktor are not somehow separated after the finale (which I'd hate because their dynamic after what happened is too interesting to be left unexplored), he has everything he claims he wants. And if a character has everything he wants, what is there for him to do?

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy post canon fluffy cottage by the stream AUs, and I'd watch the shit out of that if it were a show, but realistically, it's not something that will ever get made. I am not saying it's impossible to create a new plot line for Jayce - because he is an interesting character - but it isn't the easiest thing to imagine because of how murky they kept his inner workings in S2. Gah, my apologies for rambling so much in your inbox. I’m genuinely not trying to be a negative nancy like how a lot of people are about Arcane s2 and act pissy because the show didn’t go in the direction I wanted — writing is my passion and all of my critiques come from a place of genuine love. I guess I’m just throwing this out there for the sake of discussion? Do with this what you will, I’m just some random nobody on tumblr.com XD Please don't apologize - yapping about Arcane and Jayvik and writing is all I want to do on the internet these days, so thank you for giving me the opportunity to do so. I really really enjoyed your ask. You also don't come across as a negative nancy at all - as I said, everything you pointed out makes absolute sense to me as a S2 stan lol. I can see that it is flawed and I am happy to discuss those flaws, while loving it regardless. So yeah, thank you and if anyone else has anything they want me to ramble about - ask away!

[yukioos]

Omg can you pls do a writing with Kirishima where reader has her face covered w/ a mask as part of her costume but never removed it and one day she reveals it and everyone is shocked on how pretty she is? Thank uu <3

eijiro finally sees you with your mask off

kirishima didn’t know you were enrolled as a full-time student at UA until he saw you at fatgum’s agency with tetsutetsu. before, he only saw you at the provisional hero license exam, entrance exam, and sports festival. you passed all of them with flying colors and not once did he see you without your mask.

he only saw you with a white, porcelain doll mask. he knew not a single thing about you but yearned to. you were a mystery to him, one he needed to solve and get closer to. so when he saw you sitting around fatgum’s agency with amajiki, kirishima gasped.

he asked tetsutetsu in a hushed tone, “hey, isn’t that girl in your class? i’ve only seen her once or twice in competitive events.”

the metal man grinned back at him, “yeah, that’s y/n. i don’t know what’s going on with her though, we hardly see her too. she seems to do well on tests and stuff, but we don’t know what’s up with her. let’s go up to her!”

kirishima shrugged and walked alongside him to you and amajiki, who was looking down at the ground in embarrassment. he probably stuttered while talking to you, and he was even more shy now that more people were coming over.

you glanced up at your classmate and a bit with red hair, who you assumed to be kirishima. tetsutetsu had talked about him and their similar quirks. now that you thought about it, kirishima was handsome up close, and he had part of his hair shaped into two large horns.

a smile came to your face, and he asked, “hey, you’re from class b, right? i’m eijiro kirishima from class a! i don’t see you around a lot, but i’ve been wondering, what’s your quirk?”

“doll manipulation. it’s random, but i can turn anyone i want into a doll and turn any doll i want into a human, and i can control them. in my opinion, it’s convenient—” you spoke quietly, staring into his red eyes. he then understood why you wore a doll mask.

“y/n, amajiki, you’re patrolling today! can the two of you take on thugs if you need to?” fatgum’s announced, voice loud and clear as he stomped over to you.

the two of you nodded, and you walked away without saying a word.

but days passed, and kirishima still couldn’t stop thinking about you. he had even more on his plate, as he was to attack overhaul and find a little girl named eri. she wasn’t in a safe spot, and he hoped he would see you too, maybe you would help them out with the battle.

many heroes were at the scene. before you all split up, kirishima saw a sliver of your white mask and yelled out your hero name.

you turned at the sound and gripped your belt, then murmured, “what?”

he spoke, “do good in there, alright?”

you paused, nodded, and then walked off. what were you supposed to say? god, fatgum was right. you really were spending too much like amajiki. you were basically turning into him.

hours had passed. grueling pain and blood sat on your hip, which was bleeding at an insanely fast rate. your mask had broken during battle, so you just decided to take it off there, although no one saw you without it. you quickly fled the scene after chisaki was defeated.

you stumbled, murmuring curses when you heard your name being called out again. it was probably kirishima.

you turned around, and he halted in his tracks.

he’d never seen your face before. he stared at you like you were the most beautiful thing he saw. your eyes were tired, bright with happiness yet so dark, your skin was a pretty shade, and a few freckles kissed your cheeks.

“you’re beautiful, y/n!” he blurted out, blushing once he realized what he said, “sorry— i couldn’t help myself. i know some ladies get upset when men comment on them like that, i won’t do it again!”

it was almost as if he was begging for your forgiveness, and you weren’t even mad.

“it’s fine, kirishima. i don’t know how i’m going to get a new mask now,” you grumbled during the last part.

“if you don’t want to show your face, i could get you a simple surgery mask to walk around in right now!” he suggested, sharp teeth shining in the sunlight, “and please, call me eijiro.”

you grinned, “i’d like that, eijiro.”

hope u enjoy!! y/n can’t handle all that

[somuchbetterthanthat]

Obsessed this morning with the fact that Martin is set up as Elias's enemy, not Jon. Jon might be the one who goes to Daisy first to figure out a plan to get rid of Elias, but Martin is the one who stands up to him and "defeats" him using Elias's general methods of manipulation. Martin is the one who "really wants" to kill Elias in S4, and do not do it only because that's also what Peter wants and he realizes that's sketchy. Something Elias was betting on. QUITE LITERALLY.

Jon is furious at the beginning of S5, but I don't think he talks about killing Elias -- he says he's so angry at him, he says he wants to hunt him down but! he doesn't say kill. MARTIN, throughout alll of S5, is the one who insists they're gonna get there and kill Elias. In fact, when they talk about Jon stopping to go on a murder spree, Martin is the one who insists "but we're still killing Elias, right?" and Jon says "..sure" but it's quieter and more hesitant already. Martin readily admits he fantasizes about killing Elias then kissing his boyfriend on top of his corpse in victory!

Martin is supposed to be Elias's enemy!! ELIAS considers Martin his enemy -- absolutely not Jon, not really. "Where is Martin?" he asks. "I thought he'd be the one to do the deed" he says. INSANE!

You know what is also insane? Narratively Martin has a chance of killing Elias twice and refuses, leading to ConsequencesTM. First time he stops Melanie from doing it, second time he goes against Peter's plan and doesn't do it himself. Narratively, you would expect that the third time the charm. In fact, I think Elias would have find poetry in it -- and Martin maybe not the satisfaction he'd hoped for, giving up a part of himself and dirtying his hands at last killing someone he really wanted dead. There's a world where that IS narratively satisfying, in fact (Martin killing Elias forgetting about ConsequencesTM and seeing his boyfriend immediately ascend ultimate monster godhood instead...)

but no. after all this. Jon does it. of course Jon does it. WHO ELSE but Jon could do it?? Jon said it himself! He's the only one who can. Cause Elias and Martin might be pit against each other, but this is about Jon reclaiming his agency at last.

Elias didn't think he'd be able to do it; i doubt Jon thought for the longest time that he'd be able to do it, because -- here's the thing, when he kills in S5 he says it's vengeance: only killing those who hurt him. and it makes him feel worse. which is why he hesitates saying yes to killing Elias again: cause what else would killing Elias be BUT vengeance, for everything he's done to Jon??? I feel it's why Jon DOES manage to kill Elias: because he convinces himself it's not about him. It's about everybody else. And he can do that. Killing Elias becomes not personal, but necessary.

...And I don't know where i'm going with this now i'm just rambling. God there is a world where I can see myself liking s5 so much more. BUT I LOVE THE ENEMIES DYNAMICS BETWEEN ELIAS AND MARTIN AND THEN JON COMES WITH THE STEEL CHAIR IN THE BACK OK

[ittybittyremy]

All the details Bells Hells know about Cyrus' death & everything surrounding it

I've been seeing people wondering/forgetting how much Dorian has told Bells Hells about the circumstances of Cyrus' death. So I've decided to go through the episodes!

A couple disclaimers before I start:

Orym shouldn't have made that comment to Dorian. Even if he didn't know all the specifics, knowing Dorian's brother died recently (and at all for that matter) should have stopped him from making that theoretical. Even if Cyrus' death had nothing to do with the gods, it would still be an inappropriate thing to say. He could've made that theoretical to anyone else in that group but he said it to the person with a recently dead family member.

Even though it would be beneficial for Dorian to tell BH (and for BH to learn/understand) everything about that day, he doesn't have to (and` shouldn't be forced to). Plus, it's very in character for Dorian not to tell them.

I don't want to see any comments saying "well it's implied," "BH should be able to connect the dots," or "BH should get the hint because of how Dorian has been acting." I'm bad at picking up hints irl so I won't fault BH for not connecting those points.

This post is about what Dorian has explicitly said (even though I did add a couple parts where he implies what happens).

This is all under the assumption that Dorian has not told BH everything off camera.

All timestamps will be based on the YouTube VOD.

I may miss a couple tidbits so sorry in advance.

Now to the actual information

Episode 93

Cyrus died (3:43:24)

Two of Dorian's best friends became the champions of the Matron of Ravens and the Spider Queen (3:43:28)

It all happened yesterday (3:43:38)

Opal is "not really" okay (3:43:45)

Cyrus died in battle "if you can call it that" (3:53:36)

Until that day he never thought real evil existed (3:53:46)

What he saw in the previous couple days does was "irredeemable" (3:53:55)

They tried to help Opal (3:54:59)

Dorian knows that there are forces enacting on the world that go "deeper than [he] imagined" (3:55:05)

Fy'ra Rai stayed with Opal (3:55:16)

Dariax is "all right" (3:55:20)

Opal is alive but corrupted (3:57:04)

Fy'ra Rai may be walking down the path as Opal (3:57:12)

Episode 94

Dorian doesn't explicitly mention it this episode but there is a moment where he hints that the prime deities may have somehow been involved.

"If you are relying on the help of the gods, champions, I can't say that I trust them anymore" (2:30:17)

Episode 102

No explicit mentions here BUT we begin to get Dorian's opinions of the gods. That's not what this post is about so I will move on

Episode 103

More of Dorian's views on the gods and we finally get another (sort of) explicit mention

"The last I conferred with a god, they cared very little about the feelings of anyone around us." That god being the Spider Queen (1:37:01)

The reason I say "sort of" is because Dorian doesn't say this is in regards to Cyrus' death (even though we the audience knows this). Orym and Fearne could've easily assumed that this was in regards to their EXU times.

Episode 109

Get an idea of what "getting dark" means. Matt describes Opal as "a humanoid shape of white hair and a black crown dripping and black oil and ichor. Opal stands dark and still" (2:19:13)

"Opal the Twice-Crowned, born a fractured, dual soul. A being of unknown potential, manipulated by cult and betrayer gods alike to walk a violent path without agency, a pawn for the gods and their whims." Raven Queen describing Opal (2:19:32)

Opal has a spider form (different from three-armed Opal) (2:49:20)

Episode 110

Dorian remind Bells Hells that Opal is now the champion of the Spider Queen (51:29)

Laudna says "hang on, because didn't, the last time you saw Opal, wasn't she trying to brutally murder you?" (52:22). I guess BH knows it was the Spider Queen? I'm a bit confused because Dorian never explicitly told them this but maybe it was an off screen thing

Dorian: "I'm not certain any information we would get from her would be particularly reliable" (52:30)

What does Bells Hells know?

As far as they know, the day before Dorian reunited with Bells Hells:

Cyrus died in a (sort of) battle.

They tried to help Opal but she is corrupted, she is still alive though

Fy'ra Rai stayed with Opal

Dariax is safe

Opal and someone else are now the champions of the Spider Queen and Matron of Ravens.

Dorian discovered real evil existed

The title "Opal the Twice-Crowned"

Opal's spider form (but different the three-armed Opal that Dorian saw)

Opal is not a reliable source of information right now

What does Bells Hells not know?

Wildmother refused to help

Matron refused to help

The Spider Queen killed Cyrus (? tbh i'm confused about this one)

Dorian came here because Opal casted mass suggestion

Dorian abandoned Dariax

Opal's memories are either gone or altered

Opal with three arms

The whole Ted thing

And much more

[whysosincere]

Much Ado - A Mortal Kombat Fanfiction

For the lady Mortal Kombat fans who would like to read about dangerous, competent men in conflict, and a woman caught in the tempest.

Chapter 1 - Ensnared

Next Chapter

It is said that the crack and roll of thunder is caused by the beating of drums in the heavens, signaling ominous portents said some, a simple display of the thunder god’s pleasure or ire claimed others. Mortals had called him by many names: Indra, Zeus, and Taranis were just a few. The Japanese had bestowed the titles of Kaminari, Raijin, and during this degenerate age where he had been enticed to make himself known, the name that had invoked his appearance was “Raiden.”

Lord Raiden was considered by the few mortals that knew him as a magnanimous, if slightly distant, being of great power, with an affinity for displays of martial skill. Though he called himself the god of thunder, his existence had spanned eons, from times before spoken language, longer even than the roil of atmospheric energies upon our sphere circling the sun.

He was originally hewn from the very fabric of reality, electricity given agency by the Elder Gods themselves in order to serve as the protector of one of the facets of existence, known as Earthrealm.

Since days uncounted and ages unnamed, Raiden presided over his charge. Sometimes capable of thwarting existential threats to the Earth, other times observing the catastrophic changes that came with the turning of the age. The former, he preferred, for it proved more amusing.

As empires would rise through the glories of kombat, and fall under their own weight, he enjoyed the passing of each age as one might regard the turning of the seasons. Mortal lives passed before him like autumn leaves upon the river of time, beautiful in their transience.

Raiden had never ventured too close to the beings that facilitated these transient moments in the grander flow of time, in truth, the thought to do so had not occurred to him. During times of roiling storm and crashing lightning, the ever changing spirit of the rushing winds would rend and soar through the tempests, wreaking havoc and earning reputation among the mortals as the “brother” of thunder and lightning.

His “brother”, thought Raiden, was of a different stock, as he observed from afar the shameful lack of tact displayed by the winds. They seemed utterly obsequious in comparison to Raiden, who preferred to keep his distance, and his indifference, and thought himself the better for it… until one fateful afternoon.

Rarely was Raiden’s presence called upon by name, save for ceremonies and rituals of worship, or beseeching of mercy. What many mortals did not understand was that the entity called Raiden did not control the natural atmospheric phenomena of the Earth. He did not wield lightning; he was lightning. This fact was tangential to the existence of weather itself. Raiden was less an event, and more a concept. A primordial expression of the living entities that populated the realm, and a representation of that which enabled all life through structure and substance.

Thus, when hearing the name which so many mortals had bestowed upon him, so forcefully and confidently invoked by a person of great power, his attentions were focused to a single point. It was this fateful moment that his ire was piqued by an obnoxious challenge. “Raiden! God of Thunder, hear these words! I have traveled through your lands, spoken your language, and your religions to deliver this message. I ask of you… Accept this invitation and compete in my great and noble tournament! Or do you fear the dangers of Mortal Kombat?”

The decrepit soul-stealer, Shang Tsung, was not a stranger to Raiden, for his inferior command of life’s energies had long been observed by the protector of the realm.

Shang Tsung, like other mortals of great renown, could tap into, and manipulate the same humors that enabled the existence of physical form. But the thunder god was petty, and considered his magics unimpressive. In truth Raiden disliked Shang Tsung not only for his sorcerous nature, but for the fact that his ambitions often stretched beyond his means, and had recently brushed infuriatingly close to a neighboring realm’s affairs; those of Outworld.

For Shang Tsung to so brazenly insult lightning and thunder, it stirred something in Raiden that he had not the experience to overcome. And without hesitation, felt himself pulled together in thought and intention to strike upon the mountainside near the sorcerer. Electricity coalesced into beating heart and straining muscle, the perfect image of The One’s divine design reflected in all things, wearing imitations of the simple white and black effects he had observed from the mortals that engaged in his most favored of ceremonies: kombat.

Air filled his lungs, sinew pulled his diaphragm, and the electricity that coursed through every fiber of his flesh amplified the voice of thunder and lightning’s first uttered words:

“I fear no mortal!”

~~~

That fateful meeting had been so long ago, there were few beings in existence that could recall it, but the enmity between the two, sparked from that day, had only grown in breadth and intensity with the passing of time. Much had happened since, and most interestingly, Lord Raiden had chosen to retain his physicality.

Originally created for the purpose of participating in Mortal Kombat, Raiden had not intended this human body of his to remain for as long as it had. He had convinced himself that a body of flesh and bone was simply a tool; One that he would discard as soon as its usefulness had expired.

However, there were always reasons anew to retain this physical burden, an endless supply of excuses at his disposal. He enjoyed the thrill of victory, and although having learned a terrible lesson having heedlessly chased such addiction in the past, now stirred a completely new sensation.

It began as a minor irritation, easily dismissed, but eventually grew into something that could not be ignored.

The thunder god found himself consistently drawn out of his meditative states by a feeling he could not begin to adequately describe. It were as if every time he had finally settled into the right frame of mind for communing with the Elder Gods, that precise moment invited a swell of warmth in his chest that cut short his breath.

He would soon be drawn from his place of contemplation, and find himself gazing over the horizon from atop the Sky Temple terrace, or observing the rolling mountain parallax from his isolation within fen or forest, with no adequate explanation for having sought out the natural beauty of the physical world he now suffered.

Time and again after enjoying the feel of the sun on his flesh, the pleasing sound of a mountain stream in his ears, or observing the gentle sweep of reeds dancing in the breeze, his attentions would be jostled upon the realization that he had once again been thoroughly lost. Pulled from his original meditations for seemingly trivial matters. He began to suspect foul play, some trickery weaved by an ill mind which seemed to continually elude his vigil.

This vexation then struck him midst an intense bout of kombat; a great honor among the Wu Shi Academy faithful. Liu Kang and Kung Lao had been blessed with the favor of the thunder god, and had received training directly from Lord Raiden throughout their lives. The other monks of the Academy were grateful for even a single sparring session. Lord Raiden, having charged and parried with increasing flow to the point of that harmonious elevated sensory state that all warriors strive to attain, grimaced in concentration as Liu Kang’s impressive martial prowess demanded his full attentions.

At his fighting peak, when naught but the compression of bone and sinew and the flex of muscle should have occupied his thoughts, Raiden suddenly felt as if he were no longer standing within the Wu Shi Academy tournament ring.

Without warning, the storm warrior followed the completely illogical impulse to its conclusion, and disappeared from the kombat ring, striking through cloud and sky until he coalesced in thunderous crash near a lonely temple on a rain-soaked mountain north of Japan’s ancient capital.

The rain was rushing in torrents all about him, and the gray mist washed the surrounding pine forest in layers of blue shadow. As Raiden’s senses filled with the smell of the wet earth and crisp pine, the sound of the water cascading from the eaves of the isolated wooden temple drew his eyes to a single figure standing within its protective veil.

It was a woman. A mortal woman, lost in her own meditations.

Unaware of Raiden’s presence, she drew a steady and long breath and seemed to inhale the very sound of wind, stone, and water harmonizing together within the storm.

Raiden’s gaze narrowed and focused with the slow rise of her shoulders and subtle tilt of her head, until sound, light, and sensation were tunnel… only released by her soft exhale.

Finally freed from the unexpected snare, he fled.

A second bright flash and cracking roll of thunder bid the woman’s eyes to open. Her surroundings were unchanged, with only the smell of ozone divulging the surprising proximity of two bolts of lightning, which left the fine hairs on her skin standing.

The forest continued its performance with the wind and rain, and unbeknownst to the woman, she now held a silent, and captive audience. Next Chapter

[ineffable-endearments]

I was rethinking the bookshop meta I wrote a while ago and realized I was not thinking big enough.

The bookshop has always been Aziraphale's version of Crowley's plants (his trauma reenactment), but also, absolutely everything Aziraphale does in Season 2 is a re-creation of Heaven's role. Crowley's behavior also encompasses everything, not just his plants.

I've seen it suggested that centering Aziraphale and Crowley's trauma histories is reducing their characters to behaving like just reactive victims instead of survivors with agency. Or worse, it's "excusing bad behavior." I don't agree with either of these, because I feel that part of Good Omens is about how large, powerful systems affect individuals, and so the context of every character's decisions matters a lot to the overall themes of the story. Everyone starts out working within a system they believe to reflect reality and then has to learn how to break free of it. You cannot really illustrate that without having the characters start out being genuinely trapped with different ways of coping with their reality.

This is an attempt at a pretty big-picture meta. Although it isn't a plot prediction, it's how I think some of the series' themes are going to progress. It starts out perhaps a little grim, but in the long run, it's how Aziraphale's character growth and relationship with Crowley can simultaneously be massive for them as individuals, a crucial part of the overarching narrative message of the series, and symbolic of a change in all of Heaven and Hell, all while allowing the themes to continue to prioritize human free will.

In short, it's about Aziraphale's problems, but it's also meant to be an Aziraphale love post.

All of the below exists in tandem with Good Omens as a comedy of errors. Just because there are heavy ideas does not mean they will not also be funny. Look back on how much of Season 2 seemed silly until we started to pick it apart! One of the amazing things about Good Omens is how it manages to do both silly and serious at once! (I feel like that's maybe a little Terry Pratchett DNA showing through. "Laughter can get through the keyhole while seriousness is still hammering on the door," as Terry himself said.)

Aziraphale has really embraced his connection to Crowley in Season 2, and he has also become considerably more assertive toward Heaven and Hell. These are both major growth points compared to the beginning of Season 1.

However, again, we have the concept of growing pains...Aziraphale is starting to re-create Heaven's role in his relationship with Crowley and humanity. It's really obvious with the Gabriel argument and the I Was Wrong Dance, but I think we see it all over the place: he seems to feel any serious dissent is a betrayal. He also seems to assume there's a dominance hierarchy and he, of course, is on top. Now that he's decided to take control of his own future, then surely that does mean he's the one in control, right?

With all that said, he still seems to have trouble being direct about the feelings that make him most vulnerable. He manipulates people and engineers situations in which he can try to get his emotional needs met rather than saying things outright (case in point: the Ball).

Like I pointed out in the bookshop meta: subconsciously, he's playing the role of God, modified with what God would be if She were everything he wants Her to be. He's generous, almost infinitely sweet, always does what's best for people...or, at least, what he believes is best for people. During the Ball, Aziraphale influences the people around him to be comfortable and happy even when they're not supposed to be, and he limits their ability to talk about things he thinks are too rude or improper for happy, formal occasions.

Doesn't this pattern sort of make sense for an angel who's just discovering free will? Like, at the end of Season 1, he made an enormous choice to stand against Heaven and realized he could survive it. Now he's gone a bit overboard with exerting his own will. Unfortunately, while he's learned to question upper management, he's still operating on a fundamental framework of the universe where there have to be two sides and there has to be a hierarchy. Also, since Aziraphale is on the Good side, he of course has to gear his desires into what's Good rather than just what he wants, so he sometimes thinks he's doing things for others when really he's doing things for himself. (For example, matchmaking Maggie and Nina started out as something he wanted to use to lie to Heaven, but by the time he was commenting "Maggie and Nina are counting on me," he seemed sincere, like he had genuinely convinced himself this was for them and not for himself.)

Aziraphale knows Heaven interferes in human affairs, ostensibly on God's behalf. He thinks She should be intervening in ways that are beneficial. What I believe the narrative wants him to learn is that God and Heaven shouldn't be manipulating people at all, not even for Good, and in fact there is no real meaningful hierarchy.

Anyway, a top-down, totally unquestioned hierarchy is the primary social relationship Aziraphale has known, and it's certainly been the dominant one for most of his existence: you're either the boss or the underling, and if someone seriously questions you, they don't have faith in you - they don't respect you.

No, his relationship with Crowley has not always been like that, but they've been creating their relationship from whole cloth, so how would he know it shouldn't become that way, now that it's "real" and out in the open?

No, human relationships aren't like that, but Aziraphale clearly does not see himself or Crowley as human. As the relationship approached something that seemed like it must be "legitimate," Aziraphale would naturally look for a framework to fit it to. And again, the only one he has is the shape of "intimacy," or what passes for it, in Heaven. What has "trust" always meant in all his "legitimate" relationships? It has always meant unquestioning obedience, of course. What have the warm fuzzies felt like in Heaven? Well, praise from the angels above him is nice, so that must be it, right?

Aziraphale even describes being in love as "what humans do," separating out that relationship style. Someday, I think he'll realize he favors the shape of love on Earth, something that's more inherently equal, more give-and-take. Look at how he idealizes it from afar at the Ball. But I think that, like Crowley before Nina pointed it out, Aziraphale maybe hasn't 100% grokked that it can and in fact should work that way for him and Crowley, too. Just like people can desperately want to dance without knowing how to dance, or can desperately want to speak a language without knowing the language, Aziraphale does not instinctively know how to have the kind of relationship where he can be truly vulnerable and handle Crowley's vulnerability as well.

Aziraphale is downright obsessed with French, known as the "language of love." He's trying to learn it the Earthly way. He's not very good at it, but he wants to be.

This pattern is still present during the Final Fifteen even if we assume Aziraphale is asking Crowley to become an angel again out of fear (and I find it very hard to believe that fear doesn't factor in at all). He's still building his interactions off of that Heaven-like framework: he asks Crowley to trust him blindly, he tries to assume a leadership role with a plan Crowley never agreed to and couldn't follow anyway, and he tries very hard not to leave room for an ounce of doubt. He also suggests making Crowley his second-in-command and obviously does not register that this could possibly be offensive. Again, I think this is because for Aziraphale, there has always been a hierarchy in Heaven, it's started to transfer to his relationship with Crowley, and breaking out of that assumption about relationships is going to take more processing than a single argument can do.

As I mentioned in another post, I don't believe Aziraphale had a real choice about whether he accepted the Supreme Archangel position. I think he could sense that he was not getting out of it and chose to look on the bright side, to see it as an opportunity. And instead of looking realistically at how that would feel to Crowley, he tried to sweep Crowley up to Heaven with him using toxic positivity, appeals to morality, and appeals to their relationship itself. Again, mimicking what Heaven has done to him.

To me, "they're not talking" is a big clue that Aziraphale's approach with Crowley is going to be the mistake the narrative really wants him to face. "Not talking" has, thus far, been presented as the central conflict of Season 3! After losing the structure and feedback Heaven gave him, Aziraphale started creating Heaven-like patterns in his relationship with Crowley, and breaking out of those patterns is what he needs to do. Discovering first-hand that Heaven's entire modus operandi is bad no matter who's in charge is how he can do it.

Look, either you're sympathetic to Aziraphale's control issues or you're not. Personally, I am. He's trying so, so hard to be good. I think trying to figure yourself out (which Aziraphale is clearly doing) is hard enough, and when you start balancing what you want for yourself, what you think are your responsibilities, and what other people are actively asking of you, you're bound to fall into the patterns that have been enforced for your whole life or for millions of years, whichever came first.

It is very easy to assume that people should Just Be Better, but it's not actually that simple to be a thinking, feeling person. My anxiety tends to move in a very inward direction and Aziraphale's moves outward. But I'd imagine the desperation and exhaustion are the same.

Unlike Nina, Aziraphale became a rebound mess. I don't think it occurred to either him or to Crowley that there could be any soul-searching, anything but carrying on with the new normal after their stalemate with Heaven and Hell.

Now, instead of getting rejected by Heaven and surviving it, Aziraphale needs to be the one to reject Heaven. It needs to be a choice. And that choice is going to come from realizing that Heaven isn't just poorly managed but also represents a bad framework for all relationships.

How could this happen? Good question. We're obviously not supposed to know yet, although I think picking at existing themes within the narrative could possibly give us hints.

It's possible Aziraphale's character development trajectory will be akin to Adam Young's in Season 1. Please see this stellar post by eidetictelekinetic for more thoughts about it, but basically, in Season 1, Adam saw that the world was not what he wanted it to be and decided his vision was better; as he ascended to power, he took complete control over all his friends and then soon realized that's not what he wants because there's no point in trying to have relationships with people who can't choose you. It's that realization that leads Adam to conclude he doesn't want to take over the world and to reject the role he's expected to play as the Antichrist. Maybe Aziraphale's trip to Heaven is an attempt at a control move during which he'll realize he's defeating his own point.

Aziraphale clearly wants to be chosen. From the very beginning, he's wanted to be special and cared for - just like Crowley has.

Incidentally, I think Aziraphale and Crowley are going to represent pieces of the bigger picture here, and this - first imitating and then rejecting Heaven's relationship style - can both symbolize Heaven's transformation and directly start it (probably in an amusing, somewhat indirect way, like when he handed off the flaming sword to Adam).

If I'm right - which I may very well not be - I think this would all be so, SO cool. Like, "An angel who is subconsciously trying to be a better God" is a concept with so much potential for both tender kindness and incredible darkness. Add to that the comedy-of-errors aspect of "...but even deeper down, he'd much rather just be super gay on Earth" and you have, in my opinion, a perfect character.

I think this could work for Crowley as well. It's obvious that in the Good Omens universe, at least so far, Hell is all about detesting humans and punishing them; Satan seems to genuinely hate humans (unlike in some of NG's other works). Our perspective on this could change, but it potentially puts Crowley in a complementary position to Aziraphale, as a demon who is trying to be "better" than Satan. But this isn't about being "morally better." It's about things having a point. Crowley's exploits usually have a point: they test people. And you can pass his tests! He sincerely likes making trouble, but Crowley doesn't live to punish.

But, once again, the above paragraph would describe a transient phase for this infinitely charming character. Because, again, I think the point will be that in the end, Crowley's deeper-down desire, moreso than testing Creation, is watching it grow with a glass of wine in hand.

[blues-valentine]

Dune Spoilers:

I like the Dune book series - it’s one of the first sci fic books I ever read and we all know they're the blueprint. And Deni's movies are a visual masterpiece. With that being said, I have some issues with the movies because of their use of Arab culture to build their world while most of their cast and staff isn’t even middle eastern. But I don’t feel I have the authority to talk about it so I’ll refer to some posts. (x x x)

But with a lot of criticism I disagree with the takes about the movie showing us a "white savior trope" and I don’t want to yell that media literacy is death when it comes to analyzing entertainment but yes because Paul Atreides is being portrayed as a cautionary tale since the very first introduction to Dune in the movies. Chani starts the movie explaining Arraki’s story about being invaded and under the ex rule of an imperial house and asks the following question: “Who’ll our next oppressors be?” while cutting directly to Paul and starting his journey. Paul isn’t being shown as the white savior that will free the Fremen from the imperial rule and get them the paradise they see in the prophecy. He quickly becomes a power hungry leader with a god complex and I think Dune: Part Two heavily showcases this transition. Paul spends a lot of time denying what he could be and when he has the ability to see he can win and rule the world - his greed takes over.

Paul’s ascent to power in the 3rd act isn’t even being portrayed as a good thing — it’s supposed to be dark and full of warnings about the tyrant he’ll become. It’s there in his scary speech and Chani’s face. Both Paul and Jessica are being shown as manipulative people that are leading the Fremen into false hopes and religious fanaticism. Paul knew from the very start that the Bere Gesserit were planting ideas on the Fremen about him being the one - and he knew he needed to convince the remaining doubtful people of the prophecy if he wanted them on his side for his revenge. He was using the Fremen for his vengeance agaisnt the emperor. And he might’ve fallen in love with Chani and genuinely believe his place is at Arrakis' but he quickly transforms into the Messiah that plays into people’s false worship. He knows the easiest way to control the Fremen is by playing into the prophecy.

Paul’s Atraides isn’t about a hero’s journey but mostly the journey of an anti hero. We are not supposed to think he is the good guy. In the books there’s this important quote from Frank Herbert’s himself: “No more terrible disaster could befall your people than for them to fall into the hands of a hero.” because Paul isn’t there to save them from colonialism just replacing their old oppressors (Harkonnen) with him.

And I was pleasantly surprised with the changes in Chani’s character by her having more agency by being a freedom fighter and the only one seeing the wrongs in the increasing fanaticism towards Paul and the dangers this means for her people instead of playing the passive girlfriend that sticks by his side despite him becoming everything he swore won't be like in the books. And I really hope they change some parts of her arc in the last movie and she goes against him. Or at the very least have her still present a strong opposition to his world view. It would turn their relationship more interesting than her spending 12 years as his concubine wanting to bear him children and dying for it. I think Denis seems to be planning a better way to portray the women in the last movie and I can't wait to see what he does with them.

I just feel like people will get to Dune: Messiah and be so confused as if Paul going into a dark path and becoming Arraki's next oppressor wasn't pretty much there all along.

[dr-spectre]

also it's a random thing but I've realized people have been using brainwashed wrong too

Brainwashing has nothing to do with actually mind controlling people and has everything to do with propaganda. And being told it constantly

For context -

<- the actual definition of doing something

if we use this definition instead of how literally everyone uses it (ie. It's just a replacement for mind controlled)

Then honestly callie being "brainwashed" makes more logically sense if you treat the hypnoshades as consistently feeding her propaganda. It's not literally taking over her mind she's literally probably being played octavios music tbh

Because it's canonically a thing that octavio uses music for propaganda

TLDR: even by LITERAL INSISTENCE INKIPEDIA DEFINITIONS that she id "brainwashed and mind controlled", she can not be mind controlled. Realistically if Callie was brainwashed that means she was just fed propaganda about Octarian.

So people can't argue that she was forced into that outfit she wears in splatoon 2 still because she probably chose to wear it maybe as a strange solidarity idea. It's not about being forced to wear something... Like that. It's wearing a uniform.

Uh that tldr is too long:

Etldr: callie can't be mind controlled no matter how much people insist, brainwashing literally is about propaganda and not "oh no my memories are lost I can't feel ::((("

You literally cannot force her to not have autonomy no matter if it's "brainwashing vs hypnosis"

It's NOT MIND CONTROLLL 😭😭😭😭

o god this is super long

I actually got a comment that was VERY similar to this!!! Someone (I forgot who) said, "I'm gonna think of cult brainwashing instead of sci-fi brainwashing for callie for my own sanity."

From my knowledge, the term brainwashing has always been this general term to describe mind control plots and shit like that and people use it poorly and wrongly. And THAT'S where my anger comes from. Because people wanna make Callie's arc in Splatoon 2 way worse, more disgusting and less interesting. It's so SOOOOO annoying and disregards any sort of arc that Callie could go through....

The word is either used in cults, or military experiments, or family drama of "you're brainwashing my child!" Or sci fi lazy bullshit where it's just "mind control and you lose all of your autonomy and memories" aka Winter Soldier, Widowmaker, etc. It's such a general term that has a trillion different meanings and it's fucking frustrating as hell.

If I try to look at Callie’s story through the lens of "standard" brainwashing where it's just psychological manipulation and propaganda from the Octarians and Octavio, considering that he is known to use music and other things as motivation to boost Octarians.... then... I actually wouldn't have a problem with people using that word... maybe...

Because Callie STILL had some amount of agency and autonomy, even with the shades on, she couldn't have been forced to do anything against her will cause of how hypnosis works. She still heard out the Octarians and listened to their propaganda. Was Octavio still in the wrong? Yeah! DUHHHH!!! NO FUCKING SHIT SHERLOCK!!! HE MANIPULATED A MENTALLY ILL SQUID WOMAN!!! YOU THINK IM RESOLVING THAT MAN OF BLAME?!?! FUCK NO!!! But in that scenario it's WAYYYY LESS EVIL than what the fuck people and Nintendo tried to suggest that they did. I dont wanna believe that Octavio immediately grabbed and then "brainwashed" Callie with the shades after she said "okay fine I'll hear you out." And then "kidnapped" her and her memories were wiped... Ugh. (Fucking Nintendo bro god I hate them...)

It would also help explain WHY she doesn't feel any sort of trauma or suffering from those events and why she finds the Octarians cute and why she went with Octavio to the Low Water party. She probably felt sorry for the Octarians and wanted to help them willingly because her life beforehand was shitty and she was alone... Octavio probably didn't need to do much to convince her, too, which is kinda sad... She probably doesn't feel regret or pain because, well, she was going through a rough period and she wanted an escape, so the Octarians, in her mind, were the only way out...

However.... I can't see that word the same anymore, and every time that I see it, I ALWAYS think of the bullshit sci-fi definition and people just LOVEEEE TO USE IT AS A CATCH ALL TERM!!!! IT'S REALLY REALLYYYYYY ANNOYING!!!!

That word has actually caused me physical reactions when I hear it, like I was in a family dinner and one of my parents used that word and like... I fucking tensed up and felt stinging across my entire body, my heart was pounding and stuff. NO THAT ISNT A JOKE! THATS HOW FIXATED I AM ON THE STUPID SQUID LADY!!!!

Idk if I will be able to comfortably use the word "brainwashing" to describe Hypno Callie because that word has been fully engrained to me as the sci fi. one, rather than the general cult one with more autonomy and more room to dive into depth and character change.

I guess you could say that Nintendo have... BRAINWASHED me into believing that the word is only used as a way to say mind control and "oh no I lost all of my memories!!!" Heh... Heh... eh.... I wanna die.

I fucking hate Nintendo bro. I hate them. So much.

Oh Nintendo, when I find you I swear to go-

[nightcolorz]

I am sooo frustrated by how a lot of the fandom talks about Louis in a way that always centers his victimhood. Jacob Anderson has put so much effort and talent into portraying a nuanced and complicated character, and people steamroll right over what he has to say about Louis's motivations to portray him as this totally passive person with no control over anything. He absolutely uses Armand's sexual trauma to gain emotional leverage, and we should be able to talk about that without having to excuse it or constantly reinforce that Louis is the BIGGER victim, so his own boundary-crossing or manipulative behavior is irrelevant.

YESSS!!! A THOUSAND TIMES YES!!! omg thank u anon god ur so right I’ve been sayyyying this!! It’s genuinely fucking weird and icky to me that just because Louis was a victim of abuse fans act like he is only ever capable of being a victim of abuse without any agency or capacity for harm. He is such a varied complex character and the fact that he was abused is a piece of a huge puzzle, not the entire picture.

I’ve said this before, but I think that part of this as u perfectly put “constant reinforcing that Louis is the bigger victim” is because it was a huge theory/interpretation that Armand was going to be the even more abusive even more manipulative “lestat part two” after his reveal in season one, and there was a ton of fanfic and meta written with this assumption, and now that season 2 is out and the portrayal is wayyy more complex and Armand isn’t an unambiguous evil but also like an abuse victim himself who is being manipulated by Louis, these people who were attached to their post s1 one theory that Armand was gonna be the ultimate bad and Louis was going to be trapped in victimhood r still clinging to that interpretation and finding absurd hoops to jump through to still justify it as correct. It’s rlly annoying!! 😭😭 as an Armand obsessed freak who has been insisting that he is more sympathetic and complex then he was being given credit for after his reveal, it’s insane to me to witness the show justifying my interpretation and fans r STILL sticking to their shallow read of two amazingly varied characters

[tsutsumi-kurose]

tbhk 119 thoughts!!

[shows up to the red house a week and a half late with an iced coffee]

lol lots of thoughts this chapter!!

i think one of the most prominent questions of this chapter is about the status of kou. it seems our boy is definitely possessed, but how possessed? is possession a switch that turns on and off? to me, it seems like there are parts of kou that are genuinely him in this chapter, but he's definitely not acting of his own accord. can the entity possessing him change the strength of its control from moment to moment?

i don't really have an answer, but i noticed a parallel that might hold some clues!! i thought kou smiling and pointing nene in adult amane's direction seemed very familiar...

he looks strikingly similar to the tsukasa we met in the first red house arc!! the pointing is the same, as is the wide eyed, somewhat vacant sunny disposition. this suggests to me that kou is currently filling a role similar to the one tsukasa filled in the original red house arc, sort of a wishes tour guide, or lure. they both know what the person they're showing around wants, and they're taking them right to it!!

i don't think they're exactly the same, though... i get the impression original tsukasa had a little more agency than kou does here. original tsukasa got a wish granted and even got to leave of his own accord!! whereas kou seems more in between. he seems to have more of a distinct role/job than the people who came to the red house and never left, and he still has aspects of his own personality and relationships, but he's definitely being controlled.

it does seem like the entity has a lot more strength in this new timeline, but I also wonder if it was always capable of this—what happened to all the original red house victims? did the people originally trapped in the red house ever get puppeted around? or did no one worth manipulating show up before kou and nene?

i also love how this parallel seems so similar bc of how familiar but not quite right the behavior is for both kou and tsukasa!! tsukasa was a smiley, helpful child before being possessed, and likewise, at least around nene, kou is usually cheery and helpful too!! so that makes it difficult to tell how much of their personalities are lingering vs what is the doing of this entity that grants wishes…something that is supposedly helpful and would make people happy…

speaking of happiness!!

this is my other favorite parallel from this chapter:

of course. of course! of course i'm happy, of course i love you. isn't it interesting, what adult amane's "of course i'm happy" seems to suggest about amane's "of course i love you"? I find it really interesting that when four-year-old amane said this, he probably really meant it!! but tsukasa thought he hated him. when the entity says “of course I’m happy”…well, does the entity mean it? seems very pointedly deceptive, but I suppose it’s not off the table that the entity may genuinely believe people are happier this way

I’m also interested in hearing the entity talk through amane, given that supposedly whatever changed didn’t affect anything before the twins’ fourth birthday. so that would suggest the god still learned its speech patterns from tsukasa:

it would be so devastating if possessed amane’s false “of course I’m happy” was truly an echo of how tsukasa interpreted amane’s “of course I love you” as false ):

i'm also interested in the fact that amane was visited on his fourth birthday...when the clock clearly said 1968 when the clock keepers went to the past.

the way adult amane covers his face when recalling this memory is also very similar to how hanako covers his face when talking about using the clock to change something in ch101, which makes me think the change was very possibly 1968 amane’s doing. this figure we see talking to four-year-old amane could be a 1968 amane, and maybe he changed something on the day of their fourth birthday.

which would mean he changed something about the day tsukasa got sacrificed... that would be devastating, because it doesn't seem like tsukasa ever came back. I can’t really imagine how intentional that would’ve been on amane’s end, but i could see amane trying to stop tsukasa from sacrificing himself and the entity seizing on this and causing more complications... hm...

final parallel bc this is where I start crying

just two cuties in the red house in separate timelines ready to alter reality to be whatever will make amane happy :')

they both love him so much!! they're the same!!!<3

but with an important distinction in approach, which is that nene tries her best this chapter to get amane's input on what his happiness looks like and how he'd like her to go about supporting that vision!! i'm really interested to see what a wish given with permission looks like... and how might it alter the outcomes? may not work out, but a round of applause for her doing her best at communicating lol

"or was life still difficult after all...?" analysis OVER i have to go cry again <3 goodnight <3

[miracletyrant]

Arthur Lester and living for someone else: an essay I dreamt up while I had the flu

First, some clarification: when I say living for someone else, I mean taking them into consideration in your life. It is not about catering unhealthily to them, or enslaving yourself to their whims. living for someone else is the difference between feeling love for someone and acting on it. It's about treating love as an action.

In episode 31, we learn a lot about Arthur's past. While Bella was giving birth, he said to James, "I can't live for someone else!" and he wasn't wrong. He loves Faroe, even if he didn't love Bella, but he didn't truly live for her. Don't get me wrong; he wasn't a neglectful father. He was kind to her and tried to spend time with her. Ultimately, he made few sacrifices for her, but not none.

Once she was gone and Parker had helped him restore his will to live, he found contentment. And this is the most important part; he wasn't unhappy living for himself, having no one worry about where he was or what he was doing, and having no one depend on him. He was fine.

But he wasn't thriving. Guilt and loss aside, he was living the life he would've, had he never gotten Bella pregnant. And yet, despite everything, despite knowing that he prefers a life lived just for himself, Arthur still said that the time he spent with Faroe--for Faroe, so to speak--was the happiest of his life. He didn't allocate much time to that selfless joy, the joy of telling fairy tales to his little girl, of dedicating time to her, but he was happier with her than he would've been without her. Happier carving out a piece of himself and giving it to her, sharing it with her, hollowing out a space in his world for her to be safe and loved in.

But he did cave to himself. He didn't dedicate as much to her as a father should, because he didn't want to live for someone else.

Cut to episode 20. This is a different Arthur than the man who fathered Faroe. This Arthur has lost absolutely everything, except John.

Arthur has made up his mind. He knows he can't beat the King in Yellow, but he also refuses to let him have John. He knows that John doesn't want to return to the King, and he knows John doesn't want to die. But John has no real agency over his fate, as he is trapped within Arthur. John can't fight back, and he can't run away. The only way he can be protected from those terrible fates is if Arthur puts himself aside entirely and thinks only of John.

So he does. He faces the King, knowing that he might die, knowing that he might fail, but completely unwilling to make a call that would doom John. And the King sees that. That's why, during the confrontation, he says to Arthur, "You despise me... and yet you love him."

That line. That beautiful, poignant line, spoken so contemplatively by the bloodthirsty god of madness. He seeks to understand Arthur, to manipulate him, to find his true intention, and that is what he finds. "You love him" means "You act singularly out of love for John, with his best interest at the core of your every decision."

He knows, because of this, that he has lost. So he chooses to take out his anger on Arthur instead.

It would've been easier for Arthur to give up while his bones were being broken. He was helpless to stop the torment, but he knew he had the knife. He could've killed himself once he realized that he was going to be subject to eternal torture, and it would've made sense. But he didn't. In fact, he begged John not to return to the King even while screaming in agony, even knowing that if John left, the pain would end. Because John's fate mattered more to him than his own. So long as he endured, John would live.

It wasn't until he realized that John was leaving, sacrificing everything for him, that he decided to kill himself. If John was doomed regardless, then this way, at least he would be free from the King. And if Arthur's motivation was at all unclear--perhaps he was sacrificing himself because of all the people the King would hurt once fully restored--he clarifies it later, in season 3.

"I died for you. For a fucking voice in my head, that stole my eyesight. I fucking died for that. Do you have any idea how insane that sounds?"

It does sound insane. But he doesn't even mention the even crazier thing he did; being willing to live for the voice in his head. To live through unfathomable agony and terror of the King's torture, just to protect John. Dying for him was his last resort, because he shares a body with him. Dying for John could only save him from something worse than death.

This means that in order to love John, Arthur has to live for him in every way possible. He has to care for himself in order to care for John. He has to do things he doesn't want to do--like maybe one day sit through a film he can't see--to care for John. Every single experience--good and bad--that he has brings John life and humanity, and every good thing he does shows John how beautiful the world can be. His patience and forgiveness helps John to grow his own sense of compassion.

The core beauty of their relationship lies within this, at least for me. Arthur Lester, a man unable to live for anyone but himself, is put in a position where everything he does has a potent effect on a lost fragment of an eldritch being. And despite what that being is, despite the bloodlust and violence of his entire existence, he slowly becomes someone so full of love and compassion that he can hardly stand to ignore a person in need. Even before growing close with Arthur, he knew compassion from his new desire to grow. He wanted Arthur to spare the wraith in season 1, because he wanted to know that monsters can be saved and redeemed. And he kept growing from there. John shed his first ever tears for an innocent animal. He looked through Arthur's cruel words in season 3 and understood that they were fueled by self-hatred, and he stuck by him and refused to let him drown in his darkest moments. He was willing to risk everything for strangers victimized by a terrible monster. He begged Arthur not to take the stone from Mr. Scratch, because in doing so, someone innocent would have to pay the price.

Of course he isn't perfect (ahem, that whole thing with Oscar), but he has been loved enough to be transformed completely. He has been loved enough to return that love, not only to Arthur, but to people he doesn't know. Because Arthur lived for him.

[curioussubjects]

adding thoughts to this post re: what john epler had to say about the after-credits scene in veilguard:

really do think the negative reaction to it has been a bit disproportionate considering the actual content of the scene. epler's point about word choice being deliberate so as to not negate the agency of the characters in dragon age very much tracks with the story.

the important thing to note is that each and every moment depicted in the scene comes from each character making decisions that are in accord with their worst instincts: pride, greed, the desire to exert control over others. at the same time, many of these instincts are born of trauma, of losing one's way, of some twisting one's primal survival instinct into complete selfishness.

these flaws have been shown in every game to be doorways for corruption. particularly, they have been shown to make individuals weaker to possession. but while possession can (and often does) lead to a loss of agency, the path to that end is littered with actual choices influenced by spirits who exploit a person's worst fears and qualities.

and while spirits are the most similar dynamic, at first glance, to what seems to be happening in the after-credit scene, it's not in the least exclusive to spirits. people lead people astray all the time. thedas is no stranger to manipulation subtle and over alike.

the entities introduced in the scene aren't some special omniscient omnipotent masterminds nor are the people of thedas mindless pawns. much like the tevinter magisters listening to the old gods weren't forced to enter the black city, they did that themselves with the encouragement of the old gods.

dragon age has ceaselessly made the argument that power isn't the same as godhood, and these mystery entities are no different. and idk yall but people can make choices and retain their agency even if said choices were influenced by others in myriad ways. it's not a fun thought, but it's still true.

yeah so in short i dont think the scene is negating every game that came before; instead, it's adding another layer to the events, another way in which power can be abused, but the lesson remains the same as it always has, which can't be better put than in tevinter nights: "there might have been a better choice, said a thought [contemplation] had not been allowed." and not because of some nefarious entity, but because the easy lie of inevitability is comfort in the face of choices one regrets. (aka the plot of veilguard)

[21loveatfirstsight]

Agatha is a genius witch part 2

I just rewatched it so why not. For convenience, I will name some info so I don’t have to rewrite it everytime:

Agnes: Agatha while under Wanda’s spell.

Nosy Spell: Wanda’s spell, or Agatha’s subconscious mind filling in the world of the spell.

Episode 1: Without her power and under Wanda’s spell, Agatha can still sense magical activities. And she is quick on action too.

1. Wanda’s death and the Darkhold.

The fight at Mount Wundagore would probably only known between Kamar-Taj and S.W.O.R.D (I don’t know what agency is still standing now, I don’t watch much); because quite frankly, that kind of news (witches/sorcerers exist, universe traveling, etc.) is not something you just drop to the public population. I suspect that Strange and Wong might not even disclose that information to non-magical users. So how could Agnes know? Remember that when Herb said “Oh, she’s really, most sincerely dead”, it’s from Agatha’s pov, while under Nosy Spell. And after Agatha wakes up, Westview people are still afraid of even speaking Wanda's name.

Wanda destroyed all copies of the Darkhold from every universe. Again, Strange and Wong might let others know that Wanda is dead, but there’s no need to go around and PR the (past) existence of Darkhold, because god knows what will happen. So how could Agnes know?

2. Billy being a witch.

Preferred when she “interrogates” him, there is a spelled dialogue “It’s ink from the fingerprinting” from “Teen”. Like I said in a previous post, her subconscious mind knows he is a witch, or warning her more like, because Agatha lives and survives by killing witches, of course she will learn to notice who is a witch.

3. The talk with Herb.

The moment she wakes up, she appears angry while asking Herb for information, but as Herb seems confused, she quickly changes the way of talking to fit Herb’s “sheep” mind and gets information she wants (aka she doesn't want to waste time on explaining her situation).

4. Rio’s domestic banter, aka literally playing with Death.

Now we know Rio is Death, we should all agree that if she wants Agatha dead, she could do it with Agnes. “You can’t kill me. It’s not allowed.” - This could be a seed for future reveal, or it could mean Death can’t go around, actively killing people. She’s a guide to the afterlife, not a killer. So Rio’s visit is a rescue and warning mission. This is the result of Rio visiting:

It’s Rio’s power that breaks through Nosy Spell after Billy loosen it.

Agatha knows the Salem Seven is coming for her ass.

My conclusion is, subconsciously, Agatha still has her sense when it comes to magical activities, which is honed after years and years of practicing magic. Or, the Nosy Spell using Agatha’s memories and sense to fill in her world, much like how the Hex environment and people are based on Wanda’s memories of those old tv shows, changed and reflexed by Wanda’s emotions; and because it based on Agatha’s sense and memories, the moment Wanda died and the Darkhold is destroyed, Agnes’s reality changed to fit with her sense, aka she knows what happened.

Episode 2: Agatha’s detective and manipulation skill at work.

1. The talk with “Teen” - She knows Billy is lying or hiding something from this exact talk.

From how Lilia and Jen behave, it's common knowledge to avoid Agatha Harkness - the witch's killer, if you want to stay alive. So what is wrong with this kid? If he knows “an egregious amount” about her, he should have stayed away. Does he have a death wish?

“If you’ve got the goods to break a spell cast by Scarlet Witch” - same point from my previous post. Why has no one tried to break Agatha out of Nosy Spell or kill her while she is under its influence? Because (and this is my assumption) 1-No one has Chaos Magic, 2-Nosy Spell might hide Agatha’s location as well. And from episode 9, we now know it’s Rio’s power that actually breaks Agatha out. So Agatha knows this kid has Chaos Magic, and she knows he was lying about wanting to get more power.

But with the Seven coming, she needs to put the “Teen” mystery on hold. The “Nope. Too risky. No time” is more for her than for “Teen”. Remember, the last time she tried to mess with a young Chaos Witch, it didn’t turn out well. But she kept him by her side for the future when she got her power back and killed the Seven.

2. She suspected “Teen” is Wanda’s son the moment she picks up her pendant.

While being emotional and looking at Nicky’s hair, Agatha snaps back at Teen, asking who he is. Because it suddenly clicks for her. 

Chaos Magic is not some random magic. Wanda, who has it and is still an inexperienced witch, is capable of extraordinary creation and has her own chapter in the Darkhold. And she knows Billy has Chaos Magic. So someone who has Chaos Magic suddenly spawn between her 3 years gap. The possibility that he's related to Wanda is there in Agatha’s mind.

So she kept him by her side, to deal with him later when she had her power back. That’s why the “protective” behavior: telling people he’s her pet, familiar, etc. So what’s about the black heart thing? She knows “Teen” has a sigil on him, so the black heart should be him (can’t be Rio because Death can’t take a side), and she hides it not because she wants to protect him, but because she can’t have him down there with her and the coven when they sing the Ballad, aka when she tries to provoke witches and steal their power. She failed to absorb Chaos Magic once, god knows how this could turn out.

3. Gathering her coven quick and effectively.

Agatha needs Lilia’s power, that’s why she comes to her first. Divination witch is gifted talent, so she goes to the best near her. That’s why Agatha actually tries to convince Lilia to join/to help her with her coven list, by answering her questions.

With Jen, clearly Agatha doesn’t like her, so maybe she also doesn’t like the idea of absorbing Jen’s power, but the list said she needs Jen. So Agatha half-asses “convince” Jen. Noticing with Jen, all Agatha did was provoke and humiliate Jen to get her to join, and when that didn’t work, she quickly gives up because she doesn’t have time to work on Jen. It was Billy who got Jen to join but this belongs to a different post.

Lilia and Jen know Agatha’s reputation, that’s why with them, Agatha can’t use her manipulative tactics. But she can be with Alice, who is a young witch (probably around 20s-30s), so she did by using her “familiar”, Toto (lol). When Alice protests the idea, Agatha thought over and decided that she doesn’t need Alice that much, because a young witch doesn’t have much power for her to drain anyway.

She did make a mistake by telling Lilia how her power works tho.

4. The door to the Road appears, confirming “Teen” identity to Agatha.

(Now we know the Ballad to the Witches Road is a con Agatha run to take the power from other witches. That’s a crazy and success con I must say)

Agatha knows there’s no Witches Road, as she continues telling “Teen”: “The Witches’s Road doesn’t exist” - She told him at the start of the episode. So when the door appears, she knows it was created from thin air, a spontaneous creation, by Chaos Magic.

And she knows everyone there, all definitely don’t have this kind of power. So it leaves “Teen”, as he running into the scene.

Given her unique power, Agatha lives and survives by talk her way out or in of stuffs, so naturally she gets more information out of single conversation, and thinks of any posibilities there'll be for her to use. Billy's Teen persona is not even a match for her.

(Of course the "keeping him by her side" is backfired because then she starts to truly care about him like her son)

[thedarkdisgrace]

Here is my thread from twitter i wrote about my theory about Fyodor’s ability not working on ability users. I wanted to get this posted here before we learn even more about it than in the next chapter probably lol I’m probably wrong given how old Fyodor is there’s probably plenty we don’t know and haven’t seen yet. But I still think this is interesting to talk about :) (Also I had more images to add but I will have to wait till i have access to my PC to add more cause the mobile app won’t let me)

—

So what if Fyodor can’t use his ability on ability users? We haven’t really seen him use it on other gifted, we’ve seen him shoot/manipulate gifted but not use Crime & Punishment on them.

People he did use it on were normal people and the people who have touched him & lived are all ability users.

—

If Fyodor has used C&P on an ability user, please let me know but I can’t find a particular instance he does.

Either way, his ability is probably something he either is consciously controlling or the ability itself is selective in some way with normal people because this kid touches him with a cloth.

—

Meanwhile this agent has gloves on but Fyodor still kills him with C&P. So, clothes/cloth isn’t the difference on its own.

Like i said, it’s gotta either be he *does* have control in some capacity or Crime & Punishment is selective on its own, regardless if it affects gifted or not.

But even if it is selective or controlled why never use it on the gifted?

The people he claims to want gone the most? It would also make sense why he really wants the book to write ability users out of the world. If his ability doesn’t work on them, maybe that’s why he see them as sinners.

If Fyodor has an ability he believes is a blessing or something that’s “holy”, something bestowed upon him by god then him believing ability users are sin/sinners because that “holy” ability doesn’t work on them could make sense. It’s why he wants the book to completely erase them.

But also, a different extension of this is maybe Fyodor views the book as holy because of its power. Maybe someone say, stole the book to create ability users. Fyodor would want to correct that “sin”. And maybe his ability doesn’t work on anything made by the book, thus why it doesn’t work on ability users.

But that aside, either explanation could also explain Fyodor’s fascination with Dazai (aside with his intellect), Dazai’s a walking contradiction.

The ability user who cannot be unaffected by abilities. Fyodor may even see it as Dazai can’t be touched by their “sin” and maybe is tied to the book in some way. Of course such a thing would grab his attention.

It could also explain Fyodor’s reverence for Sigma, a being created by the book. He seems to hold the book in high regard & even Ranpo himself says the book was created by smth “greater”.

If Fyodor sees the book as a tool from god, he would think highly Sigma being born from it. Similar in the way he may view Dazai

I don’t believe Fyodor did anything to Sigma. (Addition to this repost: I still believe this. I still think it’s just information overload. That’s why he’s not waking up with skk. We were told about this for a reason and given Fyodor is old af it makes sense he as SO MUCH information to go through)

As Ango explained, you can pass out from too much information & Atsushi passed out from a small amount.

Sigma requested to know *everything*. I think Fyodor knew what he knows would fry Sigma’s brain. That said, I think Sigma will wake up.

(Again, addition to this repost: now that we know it’s like hundreds of years of information of course that would be hard for his brian to process)

(I will add to this next bit because we have more information from chapter 113.)

Whatever Sigma learned, he knew he had to tell the agency right away. He obviously knows more than just how Fyodor’s ability works but i’m sure he thinks the agency needs to know something *specific* he learned about Fyodor and/or his plans & ability.

(Addition: It’s interesting Sigma said this given he’s only *just now* going through Fyodor’s memories and seeing how old actually Fyodor is. I wonder if that is what he wants to tell them or if it’s *how* Fyodor is so old that he feels must be shared with the agency. I feel it’s definitely Sigma wants to tell them that he knows *how* Fyodor is that old. As he says “I know *what* Dostoyevsky really is. Not who, *what* he is. Interesting.)

—

Back to the main point, assuming his ability wasn’t used on Sigma (it wasn’t), Fyodor hasn’t used his ability to kill ability users.

He shot Dazai’s accomplice, he “shot” Katai as well. He manipulated Ace into killing himself. He wanted these people dead, why not use his ability?

Chuuya & Nikolai touched him without anything happening. Of course like I said, Fyodor can either control his ability or it’s selective on its own. So he could’ve chosen *not* to use it on Chuuya & Nikolai or for some reason his ability just didn’t care about them.

But still, why hasn’t he used it on other gifted? Like the first 3 i listed, he wanted dead right? He also choses to manipulate gifted like Mushitaro or mutilates them like Ivan & we’re not sure if he touched them or not. If he himself did the surgery on Ivan he had to have touched him.

Even with Shibusawa, Fyodor cuts his throat. He doesn’t try to use crime & punishment. Of course, Shibusawa was “dead” already so it could be a different case.

He also never went up against Natsume directly in untold origins, although in the novel Fyodor is only eluded to and we never see. But maybe Natsume is “that man” Fyodor refers to. (Though now it could be Bram given 113?).

You could also throw in Fyodor stabbing Mori instead of using his ability on him in there. But in this case Fyodor’s objective was to pit the ADA & PM against each other so they would take each other out. Though there’s an argument he still could have done that & kill Mori here.

But let’s just assume he didn’t want Mori dead because of his plan to pit the two organizations against each other. So, I won’t touch more on Mori other than he must’ve touched Mori when he stabbed him, but since Fyodor seems to have some control over C&P let’s also say he just didn’t activate it here.

No one knows how Fyodor’s ability works aside Fyodor himself (Sigma might know now, we’ll probably know in a chapter coming up).

Even Dazai, which is why Dazai hasn’t wanted to give him the opportunity to touch him. He’s see what we have, people touching him & dying. So until Dazai knows for sure how his ability works, why risk touching him.

That’s why Dazai was hoping Sigma would help (assuming we believe Dazai when he says he doesn’t know how Fyodor’s ability works).

Sigma should now know both Fyodor’s plans & his ability & i’m sure he’s going to wake up and tell skk. Then Dazai will know.

But what if Fyodor was secretive about his ability because it doesn’t actually work against gifted? He wants ability users gone & it only benefits him for people to believe he can kill anyone with a touch. So why wouldn’t he play into that assumption?

We also haven’t seen too much of his interaction with other DOA members (Addition: aside we now know Fyodor and Bram go way back and Bram may even know more about Fyodor's ability, but he might not). We've only seen Nikolai & Sigma & we only see Sigma touch him once, to get information & Nikolai holding his hands. Nikolai admitted he doesn’t know about Fyodor’s ability either, hence saving Sigma to help.

I believe Fyodor would want to use his ability on gifted if he could, like Ace or Katai etc. People he knew he wanted dead and wouldn’t serve another purpose. But he doesn’t seem to use it. (Again if we have seen him somewhere use it on an ability user please let me know). But since he doesn’t seem to use it on gifted, maybe he just *can’t*.

He could just be choosing not to for all those instances for one reason or another & it does work on gifted and we just haven’t seen it yet. We just don’t really know but I’m sure we will soon.

This is just a fun theory, one that will probably be proven wrong to be honest haha so take it as you will. Everyone has their own interpretations and we will find out in canon soon enough.

[unnamed-atlas]

Not to be back on my analyzing the permit office conflict through the lense of real world politics bullshit again but. There's something really interesting to me about the ways that these types of conflicts on the server will come so close to actual commentary and then break down into little family friendly easy to swallow centrist conclusions at the end as everyone comes together to wrap up the storyline because like. Everyone's friends and they don't want to portray any one side as being fully in the wrong, even when one side actually is when you apply any real analysis to them.

Like. The permit office were blatantly evil for the vast majority of this storyline. They were an unregulated government agency with their own personal police force who used that police force to commit violence against their political opposition and scare those on the edges into complying. They created their own personal prison island on the edge of the world to isolate their opposition from the rest of the population and when their enemies were doing a little too well out on said isolated prison island they sent out one of their men to psychologically torment them with more indiscriminate violence to coerce them into complying through terror. They used emotional manipulation at every turn and made interacting with their actual systems of governance as difficult and tedious as possible so that no one would bother to challenge them.

The No Poe might've been unorganized, especially in the beginning under Jev's leadership, but they didn't do much more than some recruitment posters and some harmless pranks before the permit office escalated things to Exile. Jev never brought their demands to the permit office properly but they were simple and genuinely good ideas. Distribute duplicate permits to promote competition in the shopping district and bring down prices. Distribute those new permits through permit master. It wasn't until the permit office made Jevin a martyr by exiling him that anything escalated on the no poe's end, and even then they attempted to have peaceful negotiations to put an end to the whole thing and the permit office responded with resolute violence. They hunted Joe Hills for weeks, killed him a dozen times, took his gear but made him return theirs, play respectable so that maybe they might listen to him. All while tormenting those they'd already exiled.

There is no question when you pay attention to this conflict from the beginning that this is a story about authoritarian violence and the people it's being enacted on, their struggle against it.

But you get to those resolution episodes and suddenly everyone is on the same page that both sides are in the wrong. Jevin was crazy from the beginning, he was poisoning people's minds. Sure the POE took things a little too far but they were justified in their escalation in response to the No Poe. Ren and Cleo deserved exile for their prank. The collateral, all the people they exiled just to flex their power, are just that, collateral, it's fine, no hard feelings. Really let's all put all this behind us. It's fine. We all made mistakes, we can get along again. And it is this sudden strange tonal dissonance. Because everyone still agrees the permit office has to go. The members don't even want to work there. But they can't exactly say. Why. Because the permit office weren't any more in the wrong than the no poe, right?

There is a ghost of authoritarian violence hanging over this resolution and none of them will look it in the eyes because they've locked themselves into a medium where they can't. They have children in their audience who won't understand. Who will be upset if their fave is punished for their actions or truely treated as a villain by their friends. It's also just. Not that serious. They all know that. They're doing play pretent in a video game for entertainment. We all know that it's not that serious. But god. If you look at it a bit closer. It sure could be.

[babyrdie]

Kind of rant

I swear I don't understand the logic behind seeing the Paris and Helen situation as Helen going willingly, but still refusing to think that Helen is capable of being selfish, impulsive or careless. I think people are trying SO hard to avoid blaming the war entirely on Helen (which really wouldn't make sense) that they avoid any possibilities of her having negative characteristics. Like, if she decided to go with Paris without being kidnapped or manipulated into it, I'm sorry…but she was definitely selfish and careless the moment she decided to do it. Even if she didn't think of something as drastic as a multi-year war, she's certainly smart enough to know that the queen of a kingdom disappearing with a foreigner during what was supposed to be a moment of xenia wouldn't result in anything positive, especially since the king of said kingdom is only king because he's married to her. She was by no means disposable, and Helen certainly knew that. If she decided that having an exciting adventure with Paris was more important than Hermione, then yes, she was wrong as a mother. If the reason she wants this is because she wants kleos, then this implies that Helen wants a war to bring fame to her, and therefore she is still selfish if she wants the suffering of so many people in order to gain glory. No matter how you look at it, from the moment Helen is 100% active in this decision, she really was a person with quite negative characteristics, even if Helen later regretted it. Just because she wasn't the one who literally killed people doesn't mean she wasn't wrong.

And the arguments in favor of her being 100% not to blame in this scenario are weak. It's always about how the male characters did worse. Yes, the male characters did worse. They were much more selfish and violent, yes. Does that change anything about Helen? This isn't about them, it's about her. Even the Trojan women were able to see that both Helen and the Achaean men bore degrees of responsibility for the destruction of Troy, even if they were different kinds of responsibility and even if they still acknowledged that it was decreed by the gods (which, by the way, they did. See how Tecmessa, for example, sees her slavery as something permitted by the gods). If people can like these characters by accepting that they took negative actions, even much more negative than Helen's, why do people only like Helen if she's a saint? Either she's isn't wrong because she was kidnapped/manipulated and therefore has 0% guilt or, even though this decision was hers, she's still not to blame because… well, there's no reason, people just don't want to admit that her having agency implies some guilt. Troy was going to fall anyway because it was doomed, that doesn't take away Helen's responsibility any more than it takes away Paris's.

If we are to claim that a mortal has no responsibility for their actions because fate was already decreed or because the gods had a purpose, then at this point no one is to blame for anything. At this point, then Medea isn't to blame for what she did to Pelias, after all Hera planned for her to be his downfall. Neoptolemus isn't to blame for destroying Troy, after all he was destined for it. Achilles and Agamemnon aren't to blame for both being selfish in their debate over Chryseis and Briseis, after all The Iliad says that Zeus planned it. Clytemenstra isn't to blame for her murders, after all the House of Atreus was already cursed and Cassandra saw it was fate. Jason isn't to blame for abandoning Medea, after all her being destined for Achilles in Elysium already implied that they weren't meant to last by fate. Patroclus isn't to blame for being reckless, after all Zeus wanted it that way. Pentheus isn't to blame for his own death, after all Tiresias had already seen the consequences. For this purpose, Creon is also not guilty of anything, as Tiresias had also seen this in the future.

Fate and gods interfering are basic concepts in Greek mythology. Helen and Paris aren't at all special in this regard. If we were to use this justification with them, we would have to use it with practically everyone because, in Greek mythology, all mortals are subject to it.