#there’s one where kakashi is basically telling rin why she’s important to him/that he cherished her

[dopeydi]

Been looking at some kakarin on pixiv by japanese artists (there’s a couple and they’re so good esp where the trio is alive and well 🥹) and its interesting the different ways it gets translated depending on the app/site you use 😆 I get the gist of the situation tho, but I really wish I could read the intended wordings of the creator 🥹

[aloluptitude-blog]

Oil and Water: An Obito Uchiha Character Analysis

The following are my scattered thoughts on the layout and progression of Obito Uchiha's character. I’ve previously posted this a while back on a forum like a year ago but found that I wanted to share with a wider audience, if I should be so fortunate. With that out of the way, here we go. And warning, it’s quite long.

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The first lesson Team 7 had to learn as shinobi was teamwork. They initially all fought for their own self-interests, which prompted Kakashi to tell them about the memorial stone.

Later, once Sasuke and Sakura sacrifice their food for Naruto, Kakashi unexpectedly passes them and reveals to them his philosophy in life.

His mystery is further compounded with the reveal of his Sharingan, as well. Kakashi is built up as a man of mystery throughout Part I, and after the Third Hokage's death he is shown mourning at the grave of someone called Obito in a very somber scene.

(Note that the chapter in which Obito's name is first mentioned is the chapter in which Akatsuki first shows up. Likely coincidence, but interesting nonetheless) So, tons of shit happens, and the darkness in Sasuke grows. He eventually abandons Konoha to join Orochimaru. The cast is left crestfallen after his betrayal, with Naruto promising to bring him back no matter what. The chapter in which this resolution occurs, releasing shortly before Kakashi Gaiden, starts off with this:

The remaining pages revolve around Naruto's conviction to keep his promise to Sakura, and about comrades who have fallen into darkness. I hindsight, this was effective and subtle foreshadowing for Obito’s role to come. Next, immediately sandwiched between Parts I and II, we have the Kakashi Gaiden, revealing the character of Obito for the first time and showing his role in shaping Kakashi's life. Obito's character, from beginning to end, centered around the themes of injustice and cherishing one's comrades.

He not only vowed to "crush" the shinobi that diverged from his dogma, but he was able to gather the resolve to kill someone in order to protect Kakashi (this was likely his first kill). At this point, it is of course important to touch on Obito's love for Rin Nohara. Obito was a kindhearted Uchiha with big ambitions to be Hokage and end the war. But among the prestigious Uchiha clan, he was a washout. A disappointment. For a long time his only real support was Rin, and so he became attached to her.

Obito's insistence on rescuing Rin in the Gaiden was not, however, just because of his feelings for her. They played a role, but she was also a comrade of his, much like Kakashi. They did, however, play a larger role in his request to Kakashi. Obito ended up being smashed by boulders in the process of saving Kakashi. The two had formed a bond by then, so he entrusted his eye to Kakashi, telling him they would "see the future together". Even though he had been very mature throughout this experience, however, Obito was still a child at heart and told Kakashi to protect Rin at any cost.

Now, it’s very important to note Obito's last thoughts before being supposedly killed.

His most desperate wish is to survive so he can spend more times with the people he cherishes, which will become his main drive when rehabilitating in Madara's cave. Afterwards, a battle ensues and Kakashi moves to protect Rin. He later wakes up with Minato sitting beside him, and wonders if he survived. 

However, he was not the only one to survive. Obito found himself in a very similar, but less fortunate situation:

He awakes in an underground cave with Madara Uchiha. He is relieved to be alive, but is constantly driven by the desire to return to his comrades and protect them with his newfound power. Madara reacts to this by telling him his hopes are futile and reality is cruel.

But Obito, of course, would not pay heed to this until much later.

The only thing giving Obito hope and strength during this drawn on underground recovery, with half a body and surrounded by strangers and pessimism, is the thought of returning to his comrades. That thought is what keeps him going during his time spent down under.

Obito's most prominent trait for a while now has been hope. He's put all his being into reuniting with his comrades and escaping from this creepy geezer. But the reality ended up being far harsher.

Obito's entire world was shattered in this instant. The power he had entrusted to his newfound friend Kakashi to protect Rin was robbing her of her life (Obito’s Sharingan perfected Kakashi’s Chidori). Not only did Obito lose the one he loved, but his view of the world was shattered. All his hopes were crushed in that instant. But what happens here is one of the key differences between Obito and Madara. Obito does not lose hope in the world; he denies that he has it. He refuses to accept the reality before him.

Obito was in an unfamiliar place in unfamiliar circumstances, and his life just fell apart before his eyes. His immediate response is to reject what he sees. In contrast, Madara slowly but surely lost hope in the world over time. He accepted what the world was (or rather his perception of it). Obito couldn't. He never developed, or had time to develop, the mental state for it.

The person he loved most was killed by his best friend, and all his efforts had proven useless. Unlike Naruto, Obito was alone, and the people he did have, well it's self explanatory what happened there. Obito from this point on started operating in the shadows towards the completion of Madara's plan. Obito's general persona from this point on slowly becomes more detached and warped. He gains a sarcastic/sadistic bend to his personality and becomes increasingly divorced from reality, as he has abandoned (or rather surpressed) his hope for the world.

He still is fixated on and values camaraderie, but it's not in the same way he did before. It's more self-serving now.

He values loyalty, so long as it's loyalty to him. However, when double-crossed he will be merciless. The seeds for this were planted earlier though, albeit in a more innocent form.

This is an important divergence from Madara, who didn't really care about the loyalty of his comrades so much as their usefulness to him. As seen by him giving no shits when learning of Nagato's betrayal and not caring about Obito having his own plans either.

Obito's also become quite deluded by this point, choosing to consider the real world and its inhabitants "fakes" and the Mugen Tsukuyomi world to be "truth".

Basically, he considers bonds and interpersonal relationships to be a farce, because he believes the world will sever those ties, without fail, and cause people to sink into despair. Thus, uniting together would eliminate that and create harmony.

The way Obito sees it, this shinobi world that doesn’t align with how he thinks things should be is “false”, and the Moon’s Eye Plan / Tsuki no Me Keikaku is the remedy. The thing is, while Obito did initially defect due to the shock, trauma, and despair induced by everything to do with Rin’s death, he still did not have the hardened outlook on the world he would display in his adult years. As he made moves towards the completion of his plan, Obito observed the shinobi world's workings and it only served to deepen his conviction.

Obito, though not as far gone as Madara, steeped himself in the darkest areas of the Shinobi world. What he saw just reinforced his belief, or rather he made it so. He surrounded himself with fallacy (his identities of Madara and Tobi) and negativity. Even when seeing the brighter aspects of the world, Obito would brush it off. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias This shared outlook on the world may be why Obito considered Kisame "the person closest to him".

So, we’ve established what Obito is like by the time the main story unfolds. However, something starts to happen in Obito after Nagato’s betrayal at the end of the Pain Invasion arc.

Obito is bothered that Nagato, who was quite similar to him, was convinced to switch sides. This sort of reignites the doubt in Obito's heart, and so he goes to ask Naruto about it. Naruto, the boy who was so much like Obito and inherited the younger Obito’s ideals by way of Kakashi.

Of course Naruto cuts him off, and so Obito gets no immediate answer. His anxiety and anger towards Nagato and fixation on Naruto escalates when he fights Konan.

This, of course, would come to a head in the Fourth Shinobi World War, where the two shinobi finally clashed head on and pit their ideologies against each other. Interestingly, Obito also sees himself in Sasuke. Both were motivated by the death of someone they cared about, but chose to nullify their sacrifice for the sake of their personal ideals. Compare the following pages 

to this exchange

Obito was asking Sasuke if he had the resolve to shit on the sacrifice of someone he loved for the sake of his own motives. Basically asking if he was like him. And well

Obito’s corruption of Sasuke is even a direct mirror of when Obito awoke in a cave with Madara, who had sinister plans of his own for Obito.

So yes early as the Gokage Summit arc, the conflict in Obito was making itself apparent. The fight Obito attempted to orchestrate between Naruto and Sasuke was a microcosm for Obito’s own inner conflict that would come to a head in the War Arc, specifically when Kakashi and Guy arrived on the battlefield to help Naruto.

He struggles harder than he'd anticipated in his battle with Naruto, who begins to gain traction in their clash and amasses chakra from almost all the other biju as well as finally synching with Kurama.

These past few panels are from Chapter 573, which contains Naruto’s comrades running to his aid and ends with this panel

You’ll see later why this and a later panel perfectly bookend the meat of Obito’s journey to find himself again. Now, Obito still manages to somewhat retain his composure in this chapter, but by the time the story next cuts to the battle his detachment has lessened. His lunatic rantings increase in intensity, and he becomes more invested in Naruto and Kakashi. He was probably having those Rin flashbacks people love to criticize too but they couldn't be shown then for obvious reasons.

Once his mask is finally broken, Obito can no longer really run from his insecurities and grief. After all, now that he's unmasked he won't be able to escape more personal questions from Kakashi. He has to address things in more detail than he’d like to, at least to some extent. Although, he initially maintains some remnants of the detachment he'd held til then.

However, he soon fights Kakashi one-on-one and his rage boils to the surface.

Now I only posted enough of this to get the point across. But this man really beat the living shit out of Kakashi. He’s angry, despite his prior claims to have cut himself off from personal ties. At any rate, towards the conclusion of their scuffle, Naruto joins in and starts touting his resolve to protect his comrades and defeat Obito and Madara.

Now, it's around this point that Obito really attempts to crush Naruto's ideology, as it's basically his own (formerly of course). But Obito desiring to twist Naruto and in turn solidify his own conviction was first hinted during his fight with Konan, where he swore to "fade him into darkness".

He believes Naruto, and basically every shinobi, is destined to turn out like him (scum, basically. At least, I doubt he meant everyone would become a psychotic masked murderer).

  Itachi earlier foreshadowed this same thing to Naruto, warning him of what would happen if he forgot the people that got him where he was.

Obito recognizes that Naruto's ideology was basically the mirror image of his own, among their other similarities. By this point his resolve has wavered a good deal, so he resorts to trying to break Naruto's spirit in order to convince himself his path isn't mistaken.

This is a good time to bring up something I don’t think I can fit anywhere else. While trying to convince Naruto to abandon reality, Obito brings up the deaths of Minato, Kushina, Jiraiya, and of course Neji. All things caused, directly or indirectly, by Obito himself. This is why the act that Madara orchestrated Rin’s death is irrelevant. 

It’s beside the point of Obito’s despair and I dare say if he learned of this while still “evil” he wouldn’t have changed. He didn’t even like or trust Madara to begin with. It was the fact that such things occurred at all that raked at Obito’s mind. After all, it’s not like Obito has never manipulated people for his own ends. 

So this moment is more meant for Madara’s development, because it demonstrates his extreme arrogance which is shattered when he is betrayed by Black Zetsu and learns he was the biggest pawn of all.

Anyway, soon enough the Ten Tails starts to go out of control. This prompts Obito to commence with his plan of making Kakashi stab through Madara's puppet seal, which would enable him to become the Jinchuriki.

I'm pretty sure I've covered all the relevant characterization focused on in his battle with Kakashi in previous parts of this, so I'll just speed ahead to after that. Obito comes out of the Kamui dimension and is immediately assaulted by Madara, who wants Obito to Rinne Tensei him.

This point marks an interesting shift in the way Obito is portrayed. He is seen struggling against Madara's rods and relying on the memories and thoughts of his former comrades to propel him forward and resist the takeover.

It’s moments like this that almost makes him feel like the protagonist. But even with that, Obito still retains a villainous aura, as seen when he confidently declares that the war hasn't reached its end.

Yet even after succeeding in becoming the Jinchuriki, his ego was still under siege by the Ten Tails. And once more he draws on his memories of his comrades to resist and regain control. This frequent blending of heroic and villainous portrayals makes his eventual change feel even more organic in my opinion.

Obito's newly acquired power makes him the focus of the war, although Naruto, Sasuke and others start to gain on him and even the playing field. Obito becomes more agitated at Naruto and his constant interfering with his aims.

His frustration and fixation with Naruto has grown to an insane point. And it started with something so small and seemingly trivial:

So anyway, Obito continues to question and nudge Naruto in order to reach a conclusion about his own choices.

Now, the "my ninja way" thing may come off as bullshit and might not seem like a good answer. But the thing is, Obito isn't asking Naruto how to fix the shinobi world's problems. He's simply trying to see if he has the will to persevere no matter what the world throws at him. And by this point, Obito is almost convinced. Obito was never about grand visions concerning villages and government. That was Madara. Obito was always more intertwined with the personal aspect of suffering, which is why Naruto’s refusal to break infuriates him. Before:

After:

By this point Obito's resolve has wavered considerable, resulting in his defeat.

So this is the part where the main "TnJ" or "Talk no Jutsu" stuff comes in. Through the contact between their chakra, Naruto and Obito enter a sort of shared mental space. There, having connected to his memories, Naruto confronts Obito, frustrated that someone so like him turned out how he did. A lot of the shit discussed has already been covered though, so this'll be brief. I'll just post some interesting tidbits I may not have covered well enough earlier. First is this:

Obito viewed himself as the second coming of the Sage. Looking solely at the first image, you might think he was referring to Madara. But as shown in the second from his talk with Naruto, he really was referring to himself. He also refers to Nagato as the “Third Sage of the Six Paths” after his fight with Konan, presumably as someone who also carried his will.

Why did he not include Madara as a Sage? Well for whatever reason, Obito never seemed to trust Madara. He never wanted him revived, and has stated he never saw him as an ally

Might have something to do with that puppet seal Madara planted in him to prevent him from becoming the Jinchuriki himself. Another interesting point in Obito’s talk with Naruto is this parallel with the Kakashi Gaiden. Chapter 241: 

Chapter 653:

Slick. So at the end of this talk, Obito is more conflicted than ever, and with the combined power of both Kurama and the Allied Forces, The Biju are released from Obito. It works well thematically as an end to Obito's threat, because Naruto both utilized the power of all his comrades on the battlefield (in the ultimate triumph of Obito’s original philosophy over his new one), and Kurama's power, which was originally placed in Naruto for the purpose of defeating Obito in the first place.

Having been definitively beaten, Kakashi has a final talk with Obito about the path he chose. 

And guess what the chapter ends on?

Our friend, the panel from Chapter 573. Fucking slick and thematically poignant. At this point, Obito finally accepts that his path was wrong, and the whole Nagato thing that jumpstarted his indecision is given a conclusion as well.

He resolves to give his life to Rinne Tensei his victims in the war, but Black Zetsu intervenes and forces Madara's resurrection. Obito is put out of commission for a while, but eventually regains his senses, and uses Madara as a means to steel his resolve. Sure, he had switched sides, but he was mellow, depressed, and wrought with guilt. He didn’t even believe himself worthy of redemption.

But by talking with Madara, Obito contrasts Madara's ideals with that of Naruto (and also his own original ideals), and finally reclaims his identity as Obito Uchiha, resolving to do his best and end the war.

This layout with Obito caught between Naruto's (in actuality his own) and Madara's ideologies is a small scale representation of a major theme of his character. Same with his fascination with Naruto and Sasuke, seeing a part of himself in both of thmm. Obito is the man on which the core of the Naruto series hinges. Even how his literal physical body was half Uchiha and half Senju DNA. He has always been a man of duality, represented by his association with the concept of Yin and Yang: 

Yin and Yang, or as Obito himself is fond of saying, Oil and Water.

Obito proved to be an extremely valuable ally in the fight against both Madara and Kaguya, and gave his life one more time to protect Kakashi, Naruto, and Sasuke. He fought on with everything he had to redeem himself for even a fraction of the damage he’d done. He died not as the Masked Man or the harbinger of calamity, but as Obito Uchiha. Obito, in my opinion, is the best written character in Naruto. There’s way too much unjustified hate and too many misconceptions about the character. I put this together out of my recognition of that and desire to share my passion for this boi. Thanks for reading all the way through (if you did) or even reading just a bit.

[lazuliblur]

Obirin manifesto

1) A disclaimer:

I have a huge soft spot for Rin and Kakashi, but Obito is my precious baby. I feel like the manga mishandled him at times, but whatever, that does not change the person he revealed himself to be throughout the series. I have spent a lot of time pondering the dynamics between these three and their individual personalities and I will try to be objective, but my views on Obirin are inevitably colored by my personal interpretation of them.

2) The facts:

Obirin was never unquestionably confirmed in canon. One-sided Obirin (or unrequited Obirin on Obito’s part) was unquestionably confirmed in canon. Mind the distinction. These facts are more or less set in stone and the lack of indisputable confirmation does not make the ship incompatible with canon.

3) Rin is an important person in Obito’s life and has been since very early on.

Chapter 599 shows the tail end of their entrance ceremony at the Academy. Kakashi is there too, so they were, at most, five years old. Did Rin know Obito before this point? If you want to speculate, then there is a chance that yes, she did, since she seems to know who he is when he shows up. Whether this was their first meeting or not, however, matters little. Rin took it upon herself to hold on to Obito’s Academy entrance papers, something that she was under no obligation to do (she could have left it up to the teachers) and that no one else seemed to have any interest in doing (the other children walk past Obito when he arrives, without pausing to greet him or tell him anything about what he missed). Rin does worry about filling him in and the joy in Obito’s face makes it clear that he appreciates the attention and the trouble that she has gone to.

4) Obito’s interest in Rin stems from the fact that she sees him.

Here is a lonely kid, a bit of a screw up, who suddenly meets a pretty girl who was kind and helpful when she didn’t need to be. She did not scold him for being late or resent the task of delivering the papers to him. Rather, she acted like there was nothing wrong about his being late and worked with it: “you weren’t here, so here are the things you missed.” Of course he liked her instantly.

Let’s face it, the Leaf is not a shining example of a tolerant society that protects those that are less fortunate. Obito was an orphan who lived alone and apparently had no caretaker or guardian or adult supervision of any kind (do not talk to me about his anime grandmother, that arc directly contradicts the story and is rubbish). He did not have a lot of sources of affection. We are not even sure if he had any real friends besides Rin and his rival Kakashi.

His love evolved from that foundation of friendship in the purest, most natural way: Rin was nice to him and treated him decently when others would not, so she became important to him. She eventually became his favorite person in the world. Call it a self-centered love if you want, but what love isn’t just a little bit selfish? At the end of the day, you can’t help but love people that somehow make you feel good.

5) Is it a healthy kind of interest? Kind of.

I have seen people call Obito’s love abusive and manipulative. I do not see it. I cannot even understand where the idea came from. Whenever they are seen together, he is nothing if not gentle and supportive of Rin and doesn’t press her to do anything. Just consider operation “give Kakashi a present” (chapter 599). When Rin’s invitation to meet alone turned out to be about Kakashi, Obito pushed down his disappointment and did not get mad at her. He might have been upset that Rin only wanted to do something for Kakashi, but deep down he could recognize that her idea was a good one, that it was something a good friend would do and he didn’t make the slightest effort to change her mind or undermine her plan. Proof of that was that he admits to having spent a long time thinking about what would be an appropriate gift for the great Kakashi himself, before deciding that nothing short of a sharingan would do (chapter 243).

Her friendship was freely given and Obito cherished it. He probably often wondered what he had done to deserve it (he even cries when he realizes that Rin actually listens to him and cares about his safety – see chapter 653). He does, however (and unfortunately for the whole Naruto world), have a tendency towards exaggeration and obsessiveness.

Rin was possibly Obito’s only friend, definitely his best friend, one who showed him kindness and who made him feel like there was nothing wrong about who he was. It’s only natural that he’d want to hold on to that connection and, given his obsessive nature, he held on to it hard. He clung to “the one beam of light in his dark world”. That makes him flawed, but it does not make him an offender. He did not manipulate or blackmail Rin into becoming his friend, nor did he force her to do anything that she was unwilling to do.

5) How interested in her is he then?

Before falling into Madara’s hands, I almost hesitate to qualify Obito’s love for Rin as romantic. He was under thirteen years old and they had a war on their hands. I doubt he had even entered puberty, despite the very deep voice he was initially given in the Kakashi Gaiden animation (wtf), so how could he comprehend all the dimensions that exist in the love one adult feels for another? No, I am convinced that his was a young type of love. He was probably just leaving that stage where “love is gross” and discovering that it would be kind of nice if he could have Rin all to himself. He wanted to kiss Rin’s photograph, not masturbate to it. Those feelings would have only developed as he grew older and matured.

What happened afterwards is a different story. His innocent and straightforward nature coupled with his less than stellar intellect made Obito an easy target for Madara, who used his connection to Rin to break him and reshape him as he pleased. If Rin wasn’t already the center of Obito’s universe, Madara would have had everything to gain by making her just that. He wanted Obito’s feelings to run as deep as they could, his obsession with Rin to be as intense as possible, before snatching her away – and Obito, as innocent and dim as he is (bless him), saw no reason why he shouldn’t run with his obsession. Madara exacerbated what was already there. Obito was the pawn in that relationship, not the chess master, even when Obito believed that he was calling the shots.

6) Rin’s interest in Obito is not like Obito’s interest in Rin.

In chapter 653, you can tell that Obito is already head over heels about Rin. He tries to make himself look cool, like he would be a good catch, coming up with the ludicrous idea that saving him is the same thing as saving the world. And what does Rin do? Well, she finds it as ridiculous as any normal person would but, once again, she accepts his actions and works with them: “I believe in you and in your dream, so I’ll stand by your side to make sure you don’t do anything stupid and are well enough to accomplish it,” is what she basically tells him. She is his friend.

Was Rin aware of Obito’s feelings? It’s possible that she was and never acknowledged them so she wouldn’t have to hurt a friend, but most likely not, given the way she reacted when Kakashi told her about it after they believe they have lost Obito (chapter 244). She may have known it subconsciously, but her infatuation with Kakashi blinded her to what other boys thought. Does this “blindness” make her a bad person? Absolutely not. There was a lot about prodigy Kakashi for a young girl like her to be fascinated about.

She does, however, deserve kudos for the extremely mature way in which she handled her crush. She could so easily have neglected Obito to endear herself to Kakashi but did not. Kakashi was constantly criticizing Obito for his failings, but, rather than automatically agree with her crush and put Obito down, Rin played the peacekeeper instead. She tried to convince the boys to get along and cooled their tempers when they started arguing. She continued to watch over Obito and spoke on his behalf (see: “saving you is the same thing as saving the world”), regardless of the impression that this might give Kakashi about her. She was a true friend to Obito and showed real character and self-possession in how unconcerned she was that supporting a male friend might hurt her chances of becoming another boy’s girlfriend (especially one with such an intense dislike of said friend).

7) So... Obirin?

At the time of the Kannabi Bridge mission, Obito was crushing on Rin and Rin was crushing on Kakashi. It is possible that her love for Kakashi took a hit when he admitted that he would have left her in enemy hands if not for Obito’s insistence, but who knows? Who cares? It has nothing to do with her feelings for Obito, which did not go beyond a very solid friendship. At this point, we have a one-sided Obirin.

Did that ever develop into a “two-sided” Obirin? The thing is, we don’t know anything about what happened in the months between Obito’s apparent death and Rin’s suicide. It’s possible that nothing at all changed in how she felt about Obito. She believed him dead, after all, and it would not exactly have been a healthy response to fall in love with someone after they had just died. On the other hand, it’s also possible that she had some sort of epiphany and realized that she had never loved Kakashi at all, but had merely been attracted to him – that she had been star-struck because of his genius and that Obito had been the true, good friend who had been at her side all along. Who is to say that she could not have realized that those strong feelings she had always held for Obito were, in fact, not platonic, but romantic in nature?

We see Rin again only in the afterlife, as she welcomes a redeemed Obito. I do not see here proof of anything either way. She might be the friend who has come to extend Obito a kind hand, knowing that no one else would be there for him and knowing all the hardships that he has endured (she was there for Kakashi too, when he died at the hands of Pain), or she might be there as the girl who is finally ready to return the love that she knows Obito feels for her. Both interpretations work and are consistent with what the manga shows us. The readers can choose which one they prefer to see. It is entirely open-ended. (I lean more towards the first.)

Obito’s love for Rin is not abusive or gross. Before Madara entered the picture, it was actually a very pure and sweet story about two kids trying to hold on to something good in the middle of a bad situation. Obito never spoke against Rin, to her face or otherwise, never took advantage of her and never raised a hand against her. He was manipulative and dishonest about a lot of other things, but not this – never this. Rin was sacred to him. When it came to her, he was the one who was manipulated.

tl;dr: Facts are facts (but they are not the alpha and omega of anything). Rin is awesome (but kind of blind) and Obito is obsessive (but not abusive). No one is perfect.