#there’s a reason why zhu yan fears li lun taking yichen from them

[haifoct]

let me kiss your brain, because, seriously, EVERY WORD in that post about LI Lun IS ON POINT!!!

Was Li Lun behaving like a murderous toddler throwing a temper tantrum? Yes! But he had some good reasons to do so!

Regardless of their "romantic" relationship, ZYZ and LL were first and foremost, friends, who spent 30k years together. Even though they disagreed and even though ZYZ always felt like being a demon wasn't good enough, he wanted to be human, LL still accepted that.

Did LL overreact by killing those people in the clinic? Yes. But, if I saw my people- including children- in cages, tortured, I'd probably snap too. Plus, it irked me to no end that ZYZ was too preoccupied with being outraged at Li Lun for killing guards instead of actually helping his fellow demons. "I will protect the Wilderness"- proceeds to do absolutely nothing crying over two killed torturers while LL does all the protecting.

Then ZYZ proceeded to touch the unknown burning thing and ended up mortally wounding Li Lun. And then sealed him in and deprived him of any choice. And did he go to talk to him after? Nope. No explanation, no "get well" card, nothing. Heck, I think even a shouting match would've been better.

Even if he never went to LL because he was spiraling into depression, that doesn't explain the whole "holier than thou" attitude he displayed throughout the show. Did LL kill humans? Yes, but so did ZYZ (example- that bureau guy whose heart he exploded to prove his point). And then had the audacity to taunt LL and call him names when in reality LL was right in most of his accusations- of ZYZ being a hypocrite, liar, traitor, etc. I'm sorry, but while LL is absolutely NOT free of fault, ZYZ has no right to pretend he is any better.

But the worst of all is that when he got a chance to make up with LL, he let his pettiness and anger get the best of him. He failed to say ONE SENTENCE (we will put your soul into a piece of wood and you will recultivate again in 100 years) that would've made a whole lot of difference, and in the end, he indirectly caused Ying Lei's, Li Lun's, and likely Bai Ju's deaths.

Literally, all they had to do to get LL to stop his antics and even become THEIR ally was for ZYZ to say "sorry I set you on perpetual fire, bro. I missed you". But the "hero demon" couldn't even do that...

If anything, Zhuo Yichen was the one who showed more compassion and kindness to Li Lun than his supposed friend ever did. No wonder Li Lun shifted his focus to him in the end.

It seems that ZYZ was inherently biased against being a demon and valued humans more than demons. Perhaps, it was because of him being the vessel of malicious energy, so he juxtaposed that unfair twist of fate onto all demons (as in, he would not be in that situation if he were a human). Perhaps, he also realized at some point that he could not have the same range of emotions as humans, so he perceived himself and other demons as less. And Li Lun was the personification of demon-ness and all that ZYZ hated about himself, and he couldn't overcome it. Plus, it seems that all demons have a problem with dealing with complex emotions like grief and rage; this is why, in the end, among all of them, ZYC is the most mature one even though he is only 24. If only ZYZ had one tenth of ZYC's maturity and compassion to his fellow demons, the whole story would've played out very, very differently.

And this is why I want to write fix it fics now

Thank you SO MUCH for your addition, especially for bringing up their very last chess match. It’s probably the only moment that makes me genuinely, fucking angry at Zhu Yan. I can even understand his reaction in the clinic—but this? He wanted to be human so badly that he put his pride above everything else, lmfao. How pathetic, how frustrating it was to see him so desperately refuse to call Li Lun his friend, refuse to say that he cared for him, that he didn’t want him dead, that he had a solution. It’s so sad that Li Lun was always open and clear about his grievances, he always used his words to explain why he’s angry.

I guess if Zhu Yan admitted that he cared for this unhinged one, it would show him in the bad light.

I don’t care; I don’t even think he "indirectly" caused Ying Lei’s death. He literally killed him, period. Xiao Zhuo and the rest of the gang were the ones who told Li Lun about the root thing, and the fact that we see Li Lun IMMEDIATELY stop struggling? He went, Oh… sure, I’ll go into the root, we can draw. (Also, if Zhu Yan cared for Li Lun, he would’ve put him in Cheng Huang’s sundial and grown him for 100 years as an apology for the pain. What is 100 years to a 30K-year-old demon? A mere blink.)

And YES, Xiao Zhuo was incredibly kind to Li Lun. Despite saying he never understood him and never would, we know damn well that’s not the case. Baby Zhuo Yichen spiraled into loneliness, bitterness, isolation, and hatred toward Zhu Yan and demons—until Wen Xiao’s words about snow eventually melting brought him back (the same way Xiao Zhuo’s words sobered Li Lun and left a mark on his soul). I’m forever grateful to our precious Zhuo Yichen for forming his own opinion about Li Lun. (Isn’t it fun that he never told the gang about his encounter with Li Lun by that river?) 

Zhu Yan’s hatred, his harsh words, never affected him. Zhuo Yichen understood Li Lun. His journey with Li Lun is one of the most fascinating and interesting. No wonder our director grabbed the two actors and put them in another series together — he’s one of us, a shipper.

I absolutely adore you pointing out Li Lun being everything Zhu Yan hated about himself. His harshness with his former friend comes from his self-pity and self-hatred.

His words, "Li Lun, you’re bitter I have everything, and you have nothing." Despite it being awfully annoying in the moment due to Zhu Yan literally not hearing what Li Lun was telling him, it made me think it’s Zhu Yan trying to convince himself.

And even worse, Li Lun is proud of being a demon. He loves the Wilderness, he loves his home, he loves his people. There’s nothing he loves more than being a demon. He even turned the human he liked the most into one as well.

Zhu Yan is not as broad minded as Wen Xiao claims him to be. He very clearly has his biases. Always thinking about Zhu Yan murdering Xiao Pagoda Ghost that played with them in Li Lun’s illusion. That was awfully cold blooded! 

They’re tragic, indeed, and my heart breaks for them both. However, it makes me incredibly happy that Zhu Yan learned from his experience with Li Lun and stood firmly by his new friends’ sides. And I’m happy Li Lun found one Zhuo Yichen and one little Ying Lei who cried for him and were kind to his pain.

[sombredancer]

Let me rumble in your ask box. First of all, your Li Lun series is what made me stop from being a total ZYZ lover and THINK, and OH BOY, how wrong I was in my first assessment of the characters, so THANK YOU.

I now find Li Lun a much more compelling character than ZYZ. ZYZ suffers from both internalized inferiority complex (stemming, probably, from him being the vessel of malicious energy and blaming it on himself being a demon) and superiority complex (humans are better than demons, and everyone who disagrees is a loser). He has a borderline split personality where his inner demon ZHu Yan is in direct conflict with his humanized version, Zhao Yanzhou (the name btw is Baize Goddesses' dead brother's). The whole fallout with Li Lun is not as much because Li Lun murdered a bunch of humans, but because Li Lun represents everything that ZYZ hates about himself (being a demon, being wild, wanting freedom and lack of control, etc) and is trying to suppress.

ZYZ is very hypocritical. He pretends to be broad-minded, poised, and noble but has no problem killing a random human to prove his point or demons (like a little Pagoda demon). He is very condescending to Li Lun even though every single thing Li Lun says ZYZ is (liar, betrayer, etc) is true.

What's even more interesting, instead of trying to sort it out with the friend he had for 30k years, he spends his time trying to prevent Li Lun from establishing a connection with ZYC. Why? Because, as he said once, "I have everything and you have nothing, and you're a loser" - this is his attempt to prove Li Lun and what LL represents is the "losing" side and his own choice of becoming a human is the right one.

Now, back to Li Lun- he is wild, untamed, betrayed multiple times by ZYZ , And yet. Even though he is positioned as a villain, all it takes to bring him back to the good side is a talk with ZYZ/ZYC. Which, BY THE WAY, could've happened much earlier, and could've been handled much better. He constantly talks about wanting to kill ZYZ's friends but in the end only kills one, and only when cornered. He also inadvertently HELPS them to grow and face their worst fears.

Just imagine if ZYZ doesn't let his petty anger win and tells Li Lun that the plan is to put him back into his root and let him re-cultivate? That would prevent Ying Lei from getting killed, pull LL firmly on the good side, and potentially prevent Bai Ju from getting killed too (because now they would have 3 demons and a mountain god fighting the big bad).

Also, in the whole story, it is Li Lun who drives the changes and makes Zhuo Yichen evolve. (This is by the way why I prefer LLxZYC to LLxZYZ or ZYZxZYC). It is violent, it is painful, but in the end, it is LL who pushes ZYC out of his comfort zone, makes him confront his fear, and lose control only to regain control and autonomy, and "beat" the destiny later. And, in return, it is ZYC who, through being human and compassionate, pulls LL from the brink and shows him there's another way to deal with his emotions. They save each other, even though neither originally plans to do so.

I think, the redemption arc for LL is so convoluted because by that time he let go of ZYZ and shifted his focus on ZYC. ZYC is the character who showed him compassion and understanding. I Know ZYC said he doesn't understand LL in that alley talk- but I think he did. He was also the one who cleaned up ZYZ's mess and sorted it out with LL and the root.

I think, in the end, the two characters who experience growth and profound change are Li Lun and ZYC, and NOT ZYZ. He remains frozen/stagnant in his self-hate even though he stops being suicidal at some point. His inner conflict between the demon Zhu Yan and the humanized demon ZYZ is not resolved even in the very end.

This is also the reason why we are not allowed to see the natural progression of a situationship between ZYC and LL- because if it were given more time, we would see them drawn to each other, and ZYC realizing LL was right about ZYZ. And, of course, from the storytelling perspective, you can't let the beast steal the love of the prince away from the princess he is supposed to save.

It would also put into question the whole "destined soulmates for the win" narrative. No matter how much the show tells me that the destined ones are the true love, it shows quite the opposite- the original Baize goddess and her demon, Zhu Yan and Li Lun, ZYZ and Wen Xiao- they all were, to some extent, destined- and they all ended up in a tragedy. And they want me to believe ZYZxZYC will be any different? Even though their ending is somewhat optimistic, ZYZ did not overcome his internal strife, which would put him on a collision course with ZYC just like it put him against Li Lun decades earlier. ZYC and Li Lun are similar in that they accept themselves for what they are - and this is something ZYZ is innately against. This isn't bound to end well.

I honestly wish the show handled Li Lun's story much better. We had so many wasted opportunities- from the hilarity of the chaos LL, ZYC, and Ying Lei would've caused (just remember the episode where LL goes on a bro trip to the brothel in Bai Ju's body), to ZYZ maybe getting off his high horse and admitting his mistakes - and growing through it, to Wen Xiao realizing that just because she has hots for ZYZ doesn't mean ZYZ is blameless and always in the right, to ZYC developing even further with the push from Li Lun, to Li Lun himself dropping his disdain for humans and realizing there are bad ones on both sides. Then, maybe, his sacrifice would've been much more meaningful. Or, maybe, it wouldn't have been needed at all.

But, alas, we got what we got, and now we are reduced to writing fix-it fics )))

Welcome to the Li Lun club! After my metas, I can't ship LLxZYZ anymore, too... While I discussed the plot with my friend, we agreed that ZYZ has inner homodemonphobia, that's why he hates LL so much for no reason. As for "ZYC pushes LL towards redemption because he shows him some other way" - it doesn't work. Humiliation is not the way of showing understanding or another way out. But I agree there was a lot more potential of developing good relationship than between LL and ZYZ. And I disagree there ultimately was a single character who gets character development. ZYC began loving ZYZ almost immediately, I didn't see him overcoming his painful past (but he was the closest to the character development). LL stayed the same - he wanted ZYZ and did everything to have ZYZ by his side, his mindset stayed the same. ZYZ was stagnant, indeed. LL and Ying Lei exist in this show just to be humiliated, maybe it somehow should make us see ZYZ and ZYC in a good light, but for me it doesn't work, because I'm not interested in ZYZ's and ZYC' characters and feel narrative injustice towards LL and YL sharply.