#there would've been NO 'forgive <3' bs!

[sighonaraa]

can't talk right now babe i'm thinking about the season 3 we could have had if jamie had found out his dad was in rehab during episode 1.

[transterrence]

1. Is John irredeemable to you? If so what would've been a better fitting end to him? 2. Would the story be better if he literally wasn't in it? 3. Who would you have take the spotlight if he was gone? 4. Would anything he does change your mind on the character or nah? 5. Do you dread all of his current and future arcs or do you have hope they will deliver? 6. Do you think his redemption is bs? If so why? (2/2)

1. is john irreedeemable to you? if so, what wouldve been a better fitting end to him?

no, i dont think hes irreedeemable. i dont really think anyones irreedmable ?? i think hes definitely done bad things, but you also have to take in count his situation, his trauma, and mentality/mental health/state of mind. this of course doesnt discount all the shit hes done-- but no i dont think hes irreedeemable. also, his ending i think was done very well as he's currently on the tough road to recovery- and thats the best end you could ever give a character like him.

2. would the story be better if he literally wasn't in it?

wh- what ?? the story is about him. in the end, hes the main character and the storys about his turmoil and past and character growth. there is other stuff with spectre and ember that doesnt directly involve him, but the story surrounds him. i think i definitely prefer other characters over him just as a personal bias and id love to see a side story with them, still, its johns story. it wouldnt be the same without him. also, without him, so many people would be different. seraphina would still be stuck in the endless spiral of dissatisfaction, and characters like remi, blyke, and isen mightve never questionned their moral compasses + the hierachy.

3. who would you have take the spotlight if he was gone?

again, i dont think the story would be better/the same without him. theres no one id want to take his place, but out of personal bias- probably isen LMAO. hes just so skrunkly 🥺🥺

4. would anything he do change your mind on the character or no?

i dont really understand this question ?? of course my opinions on him will change as he grows and develops !! itd be strange for my opinion on him to stay static. i think that what i think of a character can always be swayed based on canon developments with the character + other people opinions. anything he does will change the way i see john, whether negatively or positively

5. do you dread all of his current and future arcs or do you have hope ?

i dont think i necessarily "dread" them. personally, i look forward seeing how he grows and develops, and im curious how uru will write him. i think im a bit uncertain with how uru will treat him just because of how characters/archetypes such as he are usually treated, but so far imo uruchans done a very well job of handling him. i definitely have hope for him in the future-- i dont think ill ever 100% forgive him to what he did to my blorbos but im still looking forward to his character development and growth !!

6. do you think his redemption is bs ? is so, why ?

okay i definitely dont think its bs. i think his redemption was very well executed and realistic !! i do believe he can get better and that he can redeem himself in some ways, but his actions are his actions, if that makes sense. i like that not everyone has to forgive him, and not everyone will. i think that yeah he did shit things, but that doesnt mean he cant improve from there. redemption really is just an improvement and an acknowledgement of your wrongs, i suppose.

--

ty for these questions !! they really made me think on how i felt ab him. feel free to send in more if youd like and make sure to take these with a grain of salt since i am human and i am somewhat biased

also sorry if these dont make sense its almost 3 am rn GHVBDJSJ

cant believe you made me think so much ab this stupid greasy mf smh 😔 /j

[jean-swolo]

THOUGHTS ON THE RISE OF SKYWALKER (AND HOW DISAPPOINTED I AM IN JJ AND HIS CREW)— AN ESSAY

I'm going to rant on tumblr instead cuz i was late to the twitter party and frankly no one cares about a new account so here goes-

but before that- 📢LOOK AWAY, SPOILERS AHEAD📢

1) apparently jj abrams can't differentiate between emotional and upset because all I've been feeling since i walked out of that damn movie was disappointment and utter heartbreak

2) the writers did the movie h o r r i b l y. every single character were mistreated. from the main protagonists to the side characters- (shivers) the whole story was a fanservice mumbo jumbo, cramped into one, huge hot mess. it's like they've fckin ran out of ideas and decided to pluck ideas from every subgroup in the star wars fandom and just threw it into this heap trash of a movie.

3) what happened to ben... baby boy I'm so fckin sorry they did u this dirty. i can't even explain it. it's like his whole arc was meaningless. it didn't make fckin sense the way jj ended him. he's been ABUSED, BETRAYED, MANIPULATED, GROOMED INTO SOMETHING HE NEVER WANTED TO BE AND YET HE'S PROVED THAT HE'S STILL GOOD. He's hurt, scarred, sacrificed himself for the person he loved, and he got it. He got what he wanted after almost 30 years..... aND LOST IT WITHIN 30 SECONDS BECAUSE HE'S DEAD. HE'S KILLED OFF AND BRUSHED AWAY AS THE LAST TRUE POWERFUL SKYWALKER THAT EVER LIVED. ben, kylo, adam. baby I'm so sorry you don't deserve this mess-

4) rey. Let me just say (and I'm being brutally honest here) rey just doesn't feel like rey in this movie. i feel a lack of character from her in this movie. she felt off. like it really wasn't rey and she was possessed by something. the way she fckin fled after ben disappeared... it just... it felt like she didn't love ben as much as ben loves rey but i refuse to believe that because rey initiated the kiss, she's been the only one to believe in ben other than leia, she's the one who sought ben out from across the freaking galaxy and put in the arms of danger to guide him back to the light, and the way she smiled when she was ben came back to save her... it really doesn't make sense. and Rey's ending- fck. imagine if harry potter ended with harry living back under the staircase. yeah. that bad. daisy, rey.. I'm so sorry

5) the reylo. it's finally canon. it's finally here in its purest form. wE FINALLY GOT A KISS--- BUT AT WHAT COST????? I'd rather have a jyn and cassian v2 if i knew the end was like this. they were each other's halves. even palps said it himself, they were two halves and their force is strong enough to give life. if that ain't powerful idk what is but the way they separated... i refuse to believe this is the end of reylo but fck, thinking rey never got the family she longed for and almost got it in ben before he was killed off- rey will be spending the rest of her life thinking of what they could be, and the thought of ben just stares and smiles at rey with so much adoration and longing, like he's memorizing every inch of her face before he... makes me fckin sick. the story's just rude and cruel and jj has been spewing bs throughout the whole press tour. and I can't help but hate him for it.

6) the title of the movie itself is a giant mistake. what the fck is a rise of skywalker when there's no skywalker left to actually rise??? and no, someone taking their name, let alone the one taking it is a descendant of the person who dedicated his life to destroy the skywalker family... it's just r u d e and condescending af. it would've been better if rey took tha 'solo' name instead bcs then it makes sense, she'll be continuing Ben's legacy, t h e i r legacy.

7) the ugly, sad, and depressing message of the movie. It probably goes like this-

Once you're a villain, you die. No redemption. Redemption is dying because you don't deserve redemption, forgiveness, and second chances because you're bad, despite whether it is your fault or not.

And that love is hopeless. So, very hopeless. You can never get a happy ending. Everything you'll ever love would just die away and you'll be left alone again. Do not ever love.

👎👎👎👎👎👎 jj did the worst thing a director and writer could've ever done. thanks for ruining not only the sequel trilogy, but the entire star wars saga. thanks for making all 9 movies meaningless. thanks for the heartbreaks you've given to all of us fans.

[zukoshotleafjuice]

The funniest thing about june teasing katara and zuko about being a couple is that she just sees a pretty girl and an attractive guy, both looking almost the same age which immediately makes her go "you two must be a couple" and it just reminds me of zvtara shippers, you know what i mean? I'm convinced one of the reasons a lot of ppl ship them is bc of their looks. katara being the female protagonist and also a pretty, smart and powerful girl & zuko, despite not being the male protagonist, being the most attractive guy in the gaang. Boom, a "bomb ass ship". It is worth to recall that "people ship zutara bc they projected onto katara and had a crush on zuko". And if they say they don't ship them for that reason, then it's bc they read too much between the lines in every interaction they have. So, back to june, she didn't even care if they had chemistry or if they were friends or anything, she just straight up teased them about being a couple lmao. Because in all honesty zvtara can be an appealing ship in anyone's eyes but THAT'S IT, it doesn't go further than that. I can be testimony of that😅Before even watching the show i was like june, one day i saw a zk fanart and was like "wow aren't those zuko and katara from atla? They look so good, she's gorgeous and he's hot" i already knew kataang was endgame and that mai was zuko's love interest but seeing zuko and katara together was pleasing to my eyes. However once i watched the show for the first time (2 months ago i think) i realized there was really no romantic chemistry between them, nothing, literally nothing, i mean, i wasn't even waiting for the zvtara content in the show that made ppl ship them so much, i was actually very neutral about ships, i couldn't care less about them, but i still realized nothing was happenig between them and that it was obvious since book 1 ep 1 that kataang was endgame. Zuko and katara were two teenagers from opposite sides of a war that tried to kill each other multiple times and when zuko changed sides they developed a completely platonic relationship. As i said, people either ship them because it's an appealing and aesthetically pleasing ship (water/fire, enemies to lovers, opposites attract, the common red & blue ship) or they just love reading too much between the lines, OR BOTH, because they were so thirsty about it they ended up convincing themselves there was romantic tension between them, that they liked each other and that zvtara was scrapped when it was never planned in the first place. Not to mention the reasons why they claim zvtara should've been endgame are based only on symbolism and things they have in common that are just so ??? Random. e.g. (i saw these on a post on facebook and the comment section was hilarious, it was full of ppl being sarcastic about it & making fun of it) saying they should've been canon bc:

1. "They both lost their mothers at a young age" (?)

2. "katara was good but had rage in her heart and zuko was bad but had good in his heart so it was like yin and yang, and that was the main purpose/topic of the show" (?)

3. "they both had alter egos (painted lady and blue spirit)" (???) this one sounds like saying maiko was canon bc zuko worked in a tea shop and mai worked in a flower shop😂

4. "Zuko was the only one who supported katara in taking revenge on her mom's assassin" (?) if you ask me, that just proves zuko is not right for katara, he led her to do something she was gonna regret later (not trying to hate on zuko, i love him, and since i love him i acknowledge his flaws. I understand why he thought it was the best thing to do, he's an impulsive and resentful boy (he would've done the same if it was his mom) and he noticed how thirsty katara was for revenge, ofc he wanted to help her + he wanted her to accept him and thought it was the right thing to do in order to gain her trust, but it wasn't) unlike zuko, aang tried to make katara come to her senses and do the thing that was best for her: forgive and let go, and it was basically what she did at the end. She didn't do what zuko expected her to do. She did what aang expected her to do. She didn't forgive her mom's assassin, but she forgave zuko, and she didn't do THAT thing she (and aang) knew would regret later. Aang knew katara and what was the best thing for her to do.

5. and the most ridiculous one, "they both saved each other's lives in the final agni kai"(???????) and the funniest part is that it was followed by "WHAT MORE PROOFS DO YOU WANT???". Honestly wtf did ppl expect? Did they expect zuko to stand there and watch katara die? Did they expect katara to just stand there and watch zuko lay on the floor & die? And this has been said a million times and i am going to join and say it once again: zuko would've done that for ANYONE from the gaang, he would've done the same for toph, sokka, suki and aang. Because he learned to care about them. As for katara, she would've done that for anyone too wtf she healed aang once too and even brought him back to life. (I wouldn't be surprised if zk shippers used that as a parallel for romantic zvtara proof bc they're just like that💀)

There were more "reasons" but they're just so stupid and taken out of context like "they care for each other" & "katara was the one who encouraged him to talk to his uncle" like yeah that's what friends do. Basically all zvtara shippers do is REACH.

Also, i just can't see it happening. I like the enemies to lovers trope, maybe if the writers really intended to make it canon, i would have been down for the ship, it would've been interesting to see how it developed, but,, they didn't, and later i came to the realization that if it would've really happened, it would've been so... weird. Time to bring up the "colonized and colonizer ship" and how some ppl feel uncomfortable about it. Besides the fact that a relationship between zuko and katara wouldn't have worked (they're incompatible af, katara is a girl with a strong character and zuko is a guy with anger issues that takes everything personal, they'd be at each other's throats 99% of the time) it's just weird to think that katara would choose to marry a man from the fire nation, the nation that caused a big war that traumatized her, the nation that took her mother away from her. Imagine katara ruling along with zuko a nation she despised for years. Fire lady katara doesn't sit right with me, and i'm sure it doesn't sit right with a lot of ppl as well. I don't see katara doing that, and yes, i know she forgave zuko, but still, she would've never done that 🤦🏽‍♀️ i think it would've been so OOC tbh.

Another thing i laugh my ass off at is when they say "zuko should've chosen katara instead of mai" as if they were ever in a relationship for zuko to say "ok imma choose katara i wanna be with her". As if katara was EVER an option for him. They never showed interest in each other, what's not clicking?????? And zuko only had eyes for mai, not to mention that despite zuko and mai had a rough relationship, no girl would've dealed with zuko's bs better than mai. Can you imagine katara dealing with zuko blowing up over everything? Because i can't. Also people saying things like "zuko deserves someone who is always there for him and listens to him" (and ofc they're talking about katara) like, ok, you hate that katara is aang's "therapist" but you want her to be zuko's therapist. Logic? Where? And I do remember mai being a supportive gf and trying to cheer him up multiple times. Did they watch the same show as me?

Zvtarians try to play the victims about how they were "robbed" bc some voice actors shipped them and from what i've read people who worked for the show suggested to go for zk, but that's stupid, it doesn't count as "they planned it but scrapped it, we were robbed". The only word that counts are the creators' voice and they have stated they were always rooting for kataang, so no, you were not robbed.

People are just so in love with the idea of zuko and katara together they really convinced themselves it was likely to happen. Honestly zvtara it's a fine ship as fanon but ppl ruined it for me and what i hate the most is when they ship it and hate on aang and mai at the same time and make them look SO bad to invalidate kataang and maiko. Saying aang is abusive and mai is toxic is complete ✨bullshit✨ and lastly, it's ridiculous when they say the creators were cowards for not making it canon. They're cowards for not fulfilling your greatest childhood wish? Something they never planned? It is THEIR show. If you hate sm how things turned out then quit atla once and for all and go find another show that you know is gonna give you what you expect,,, it's tiring that they've been crying about it for 15 yrs , like, i joined the fandom recently but i can imagine how tired old atla fans must be of this.

OK so I have a lot of thoughts about this and firstly,,,anon I appreciate the dedication that it took for you to write  this, and I agree with many of your points. However, the attitude I have on this blog towards Avatar ships is far more neutral than what you’re saying.

Ultimately, romance is not and never was the focus of Avatar. Romantic development was always secondary or tertiary plot, and the entire show was far more focused on platonic relationship development. My attitude towards shippers on here - including Zutara shippers - is that people can ship what they want, as long as they’re respectful of each other and of the other characters that “interfere” with their ship. End of the day, shipping is irrelevant to the core of the show. 

People shipping something because they find it aesthetically appealing is honestly,,,fine. Personally, I think it’s reductionist, but I don’t care if you do because everyone has the right to enjoy media however they want to. 

That being said, we absolutely should call out racist or problematic tropes that we see, including ‘fire lady katara”. I also agree that it’s upsetting when people bash other characters in order to further their ship, as much of the bashing is also pretty racist and/or misogynistic. Calling that out, however, is separate from calling out every single person who happens to enjoy certain ships. 

“She didn't do what zuko expected her to do. She did what aang expected her to do. She didn't forgive her mom's assassin, but she forgave zuko, and she didn't do THAT thing she (and aang) knew would regret later. Aang knew katara and what was the best thing for her to do.”

I understand where you’re coming from, but I honestly disagree with this take. Both Aang and Zuko were approaching the situations from their own life experiences, but Katara didn’t do what either of the boys wanted. She chose her own path, by both sparing Yon Rha’s life but also refusing to forgive him. The episode is about Katara and her personal trauma and its focus should not be on her relationships with either Zuko or Aang. 

When I make posts such as this, it’s less about hating Z*tara and more about how this fandom focuses all its attention on romance and shipping, to the point where if you acknowledge a relationship’s importance it’s assumed you pair the two romantically. I don’t read Zuko and Katara’s relationship as romantic (for reasons that it would take too long to explain here), but their relationship development is extremely important, the two of them share tons of parallels and the final Agni Kai marks the culmination of both of their character arcs. Yes, Zuko would have taken the lightning for any of the characters, but it’s thematically important that it was Katara. None of this inherently means it’s romantic, but refusing to acknowledge the significance of the relationship between them is equally reductionist. 

This isn’t an attack on you, anon, and you’re 100% allowed to have negative feelings about a ship. But at the end of the day, it’s not worth getting this worked up over. If I were you I’d focus more on creating/consuming content for a ship you like than bashing ships you don’t!