#there was just no nuance to online criticism at all back then bc of the twitterfication of everything

[uopenthedoor]

the way people never gave girls the same treatment they gave mad men. even tho both are just prestige shows from the 2010s about privileged white people living in nyc in a very specific subculture/time period and their stupid lives and nonexistent moral compasses with very strong writing acting and cinematography. but let me just mind my business

[neotrances]

What opinion?

on my old blog i was talking about the porn industry preying on marginalized communities namely corporal giants knowingly hosting trafficking material / underage material / swarms of incredibly racist and bigoted content and ignoring the people begging to have their content taken down / introspection of the content being hosted on their platforms and how different irl sex work (stripping, full service, escorts) is from onlyfans and essentially how different irl sw is from camming regarding basic risk and battery ect ect and ppl got rlly mad about it but my main point is not that swers cant make choices or shouldn’t have the right to make their career however they see fit bit that the industry is deeply misogynistic in nature and saying so is not an attack on them but rather a criticism of why sex sells, namely the discussion had points about the differences of how statistically transfems swers have a wildly different experience with sw compared to people who offer services solely online and we should be listening to experiences from all sw and not just online creators who have the opportunity to screen and choose clientele that many irl swers do not have, only bringing this up bc of seeing mutuals comment on a post where the op centers men who pay for sex services and incels (they specifically mentioned incels im not just calling these clientele incels) as ‘sad’ and in needing of defense for mild mockery, which to me i don’t find the act of purchasing porn or paying someone for sex inherently harmful to a degree but i don’t understand how mildly being like “lol this guy had to pay someone to sleep with him” is bad or evil especially when the op themselves mentioned incels in regards to who could be clients as if being a self identified incel isn’t an inherently misogynistic state, yadda yadda before someone gets mad no im not a terf, trans women r women, and trans women across the board make up a large portion of irl sex workers specifically bc of facing transphobia that often makes it hard for them to remain in the regular workforce, feminism has to be intersectional or it is meaningless, criticizing industries that are built on the backs of mostly women is not an attack on women who participate but just a criticism of how they are often not protected and subjected to unfair treatment by their bosses and the police force, i think my experience of growing up and mainly seeing curb escorts in my community as well as being trafficked myself has given me a lot of ig perspective? i think the convo is more nuanced than “all clients are saints and if u joke about them being lame ur just a misandrist / hate sex workers” and i also dislike how a lot of the conversation centers online sw when a majority of swers are irl workers, not to say online sw isn’t real and has no risk but that it is a different ball park

[ugisfeelings]

Actually, I regret that ask. I don’t want to excuse the anthropologists and linguists, and thinking back over what I wrote that’s kind of what it sounded like I was saying. That is not what I meant to say.

,I’ve always found Kroeber allowing the Smithsonian to take Ishi’s brain after death disturbing and unforgivable, but I think it’s easy to simplify the story of Ishi’s years at Berkeley.

Gerald Vizenor, an Anishnaabe scholar of Native American studies at Berkeley has written a lot about Ishi, and his life at Berkeley, and about the choices he made about how he presented himself and how he told Yana-Yahi stories.

There was a terrible imbalance of power inherent in the dynamic where Ishi was living in essentially a foreign culture and needed to rely on Kroeber, Sapir, and the others, but at the same time he was also invested in their project of “preserving” his language and culture. (Of course salvage ethnography does not actually preserve culture— recording isn’t enough. You need living, thriving people, and you need to dismantle colonialism.)

hi! thank you for writing and if it is okay to publish, i did not interpret your reply as an excuse for anyone and upon rereading my own post addendum, realize i myself did not responsibly articulate ishi’s time at berkeley with all the proper historical contingencies and respect i had wanted to. yes you’re right, ishi’s actual story is much more complicated than just the set of discourses i referenced and i was careless and obfuscatory in my shorthand (’studied,’ ‘specimen,’ ‘display’-- these were not the contemporary language to describe his tenure there until after death n i shouldve said/cited more). im glad you brought up gerald vizenor bc he was among the first to propose renaming a uc building after ishi, and i wish i had thought to at least link his incisive essay, “ishi obscura” (2001). anyways there’s much to address that i took for granted in my post, and i hope i can take this as an opportunity to clarify a bit here and direct to more sources—

first, to explain my own point of entry into this ‘discourse,’ i initially came of awareness about ishi’s story in 2020-- namely during the messy back-and-forth abt removing kroeber’s name from berkeley’s anth hall, to which my anthro/lit friends n i closely followed from the east coast as we engaged in our own institutional battles against [redacted]. much of the blog posts, internal documents, op-eds, and other journalistic coverages are still up online, which i revisited while drafting the post. they formed a lot of the more recent conservative “scholarly” perspectives insisting on ishi’s so-called happy “celebrity” status and kroeber’s “disordered mourning” decision to remove ishi’s brain, which i found myself unconsciously arguing w/ within the post lol (this is all from nancy scheper-hughes). this obvs came at the expense of fleshing out ishi’s own participation in sharing his cultural knowledge and hermeneutical agency in narrativizing his life story, but vizenor and norman denzin (building on vizenor’s ishi and the wood ducks, which i dont have a linked copy for) have made critical efforts to recuperate and deconstruct those figurations.

i did write up a longer summary abt the impact of ishi’s death on the kroeber family, which was indeed devestating for kroeber and which leguin was likely most intimately impressed by and thus likely affected her public discussion later on, since she was born long after ishi’s death. i deleted it bc there’s a plethora of (understandably) sympathetic explanations for the kroeber family’s ‘silence’ on ishi, and i didnt think it productive to rehash scheper-hughes’ already tortured, naval-gazing apologia circulating on behalf of kroeber (and  which the kroeber sons themselves vociferously protested in their edited volume together). i can link some of the 2020 coverage but imo there are better and yes more ‘nuanced’ discussions of kroeber’s legacy not coming from a white woman anthropologist terrified of the ‘cancel culture’ mob.

and as you pointed out, there exists long and rich traditions of rigorous, indigenous-based critiques emanating from anthropology and linguistics. the traumatic conditions that kroeber, the boaisian school, and salvage ethnography emerged from and of their own fraught interventions into racial discourses at the time. ishi’s relationship with kroeber and their posthumous representations has been extensively re-evaluated, re-staged, etc--including kroeber’s sons editing their own collection of essays in 2003 after ishi’s repatriation. more recently, indigenous visions: rediscovering the world of franz boas (edited 2018) curates provocative perspectives from indigenous & black scholars.

finally-- i dont have a bg in literature nor do i read leguin’s fictional writing extensively by any means so i cant speak too much further abt her literary development and its critical reception aside from the anthropologists’  perspective (rip). i think my suggestions abt leguin’s latent politics came off as polemical and ungenerous, but i do consider myself indebted to her essays n shorter works for introducing me to anarchist politics and humanist inquiry in anthro. i recommend her books to students curious abt speculative fiction and radical worldmaking (which we should continue to do btw, learning abt kroeber should encourage us to read leguin not put her off), which is why i think it’s critical we not only explicitly "acknowledge” ishi as i concede leguin did (altho i rlly did use those examples to highlight how thin those mentions are but would b interested in more substantial writing on the matter given her brothers’ involvement) but encourage an analytical repertoire to think with the larger politics of representing ishi’s lifestory as intimately bound up in leguin’s own reckoning with civilizational-racial discourses and indigenous epistemologies... and perhaps to exercise some caution abt potentially espoused universalisms (there r some rlly interesting altho idk how persuasive anthro-based rebuttals against fedric jameson’s historicist analysis of her work). idt we should b as concerned abt morally evaluating her writing for evidence of settler ‘complicity’ and ‘exploitation’ (i semi-regret using that language now in the context of leguin’s own mediations), as i am abt how we should understand how leguin’s proximity to colonial abuse is inflected textually and animates the political horizons of her own literary narrations-- and our reception of it. it rlly is not abt her anymore but how we interpret certain so-called silences (again, not always ‘bad’ or complicit)--which is why im drawn to jameson’s ‘critique’ prev bc unless ive been misreading it completely (note 2 reread), actually appreciates n takes seriously the conscious world-production moves made by leguin’s the dispossessed and id would like to see a similar literary treatment of leguin’s anth debts too.

[idk-my-aesthetic]

I know you meant well on that post about fandom racism, but white people should just reblog posts about racism without adding their opinion as a white person bc there is nothing you can add as a white person that a POC hasn't already said (and the fact you're coddling and centering racists over POC who are harmed by racism in your addition and making a slogan about real police brutality that kill's people about fandom is not helpful) and you look like your actual concern is wanting to be seen as a good white person instead of just listening and boosting POC.

Hey! Thank you for the ask and I appreciate the criticism. I do see your point but I also think there’s a few elements of nuance that weren’t in my original addition that might clarify some stuff

First is something that i don’t expect you to know from just glancing at my blog bc i don’t really talk about it, but I run a small tik tok page where Im mostly known for talking about antisemitism in different forms of media, including social media. (Well that’s what I did do for about two years, from October last year to late winter this year I was mostly talking about the genocide in Gaza before I pivoted mostly to just signal boosting fundraisers in the last few months, so if you want to see any of that content you have to scroll wayyy back) (its @ bluepluto on tik tok if you want to like. Fact check or something lol)

Anyway i bring that up because i specifically have been the target of a great deal of harassment for calling out antisemitism in media, so when I give that advice I’m not coming from a place of someone who’s never been negatively impacted by this sort of thing, I’m speaking as someone who has been directly affected and directed targeted by that sort of harassment, both in online spaces and actually in real life. (Long story short in middle school was bullied by half my school for wanting to send the principal an email requesting that they no longer use a deeply antisemitic book as a Holocaust learning material.)

My intention in that post was mostly to give actual actionable advice to hopefully prevent that sort of harassment in the future. I didn’t think it was necessary to bring my personal experience into the matter because trying to talk about it is very rambling and unnecessary in my opinion, and I’m already a very long winded person as you can see

I also get uncomfortable bringing up antisemitism when it hasn’t previously been mentioned because there is alot of nuance when discussing the jewish experience in the western world and how it relates to racism (like really deeply nuanced even trying to say “there’s nuance” in a way that can’t be misinterpreted in five bad ways is giving me a headache)

Anyway i don’t expect anyone to know that because i very literally didn’t say it, I just wanted to express where I was coming from.

I’m not comfortable deleting the post unless the OP asks me to, which they can do for any reason. Even if they just think like “@idk-my-aesthetic is a dumbass and I don’t want their words on my post” I’d be happy to delete it lol. (That’s an exaggeration for the sake of humor I’m not actually accusing op of thinking anything like that. Excuse me as I over-clarify because of my anxiety.)

(A bit off topic but it’s kinda ridiculous that tumblr doesn’t have any ability for the OP of a post to remove or at least hide unwanted reblogs, I’ve never considered before how much easier a system like that would be.)

Anyway uhh yeah! If you read all that I applaud you cus I talk way too much. If you have any issues with anything i said here I encourage and welcome any more criticism. If you think I’m completely off base I’d genuinely like to hear why because I do try my best to make an effort to listen when possible. (I mention that because I don’t want people to think I’m acting above them or anything).

I am going to check my notes real quick to make sure op didn’t ask me to delete that reblog bc I did explicitly put in my tags that if they wanted me to delete it I would, but then I’m probably gonna straight up pass out because it’s 4:48 and I’m very barely holding on to consciousness. Have a good day/night!

[crow-ter]

how can you dismiss "some images of dead ppl" aka hundreds and hundreds of images and videos of adults and children sick and starving, horrifically injured, or dead as just propaganda? don't you think that's your propaganda working on you to just dismiss those?

This is like one of the only asks that seems like a genuine question, so Ill answer it.

Im not dismissing the footage of war and ppl suffering that are real. People ARE suffering. Im dismissing the tons of footage that was taken from Ukraine, Syria, etc, and claimed as gaza, to paint a picture. Or the way ppl try to defend terrorists that either attacked/murdered civilians or used them as shields as some brave freedom fighters that did no wrong. I dont remember ppl being this outraged when Hamas attacked, raped and tortured innocent civilians, paraded their dead and mangled bodies on the streets and then kidnapped another 200. I remember rather vividly how many people celebrated it, and still do, and it was completely socially acceptable for whatever reason. And instead of going after Hamas and their atrocities and realizing how little they care about their own prople to do this, y’all are sending death threats to jews online. All the aid thats been going to gaza for 20 years, can you guess where it went? There is a very simple way to stop the current situation immediately, and its giving back the remaining hostages and ending Hamas. That’s literally it. You can come and say that Israel is not accepting hostage deals and Israel has illegal settlements and Israel this and Israel that, and to some extent, some of that is true! But guess what? There is usually (not always, and Ill get to that later) reasons for that! And all those reasons come from centuries if not millennia of history, decades of this specific conflict, and lot of nuance, that I cant write even an oversimplified version of it, yet the average tumblr user suddenly considers themselves an expert on! Its easy to simply look at it from a lense of “death bad” and claim moral superiority bc guess what, yes, death bad, but so is literally everything that preceded it. Also if you think Im the one brainwashed by propaganda here… I invite you to look online, literally everywhere. When I say westerners dont understand shit about whats going on here, I mean it. People think Israel is some kind of China type government that brainwashes their people to be zionists or whatever, when people here are probably the number one critics of our own government. Nobody talks about the protests that were going on here and all the struggle to fight our stupid government for years. Do you think we like Netanyahu? Every damn day I pray he gets the Rabin treatment. Do you think we don’t criticize the IDF when it does bad shit? The IDF has sooo much to be criticized for, I promise you, but it’s usually none of whatever the anti-zionists keep crying about. Its a war. What do folks expect war will look like? Its literal hell, ofc it is. Israel didnt start this war, and yet people expect it to be the one to lay down arms? It literally started because of the October massacre. Did you tell the same to the ruzkis that attacked Ukraine? Should Ukraine also stop fighting back already bc then less ppl get killed? The only reason why Israelis are not dying in masse is bc it cares for their own, and built the means to over the years. It took decades of fighting, massacres, and wars, with the sole purpose of “survive. Because nobody else will save you out there”. That is not the case for Hamas. Hamas never cared about their own people, and I hope ppl realize this soon, and start to go after them at least half as much.

[storybookprincess]

I agree with you so much, one girl on Instagram just said “I don’t wear makeup” that’s it, that’s it, no follow up insults, nothing and yet she was still treated like a pick me and got a bunch of “ooooooh quirky 🙄🙄” or “it’s always the ugly bitches” responses. It was painful to see.

i’ve seen similar things & i think it mostly just boils down to the fact that the social internet is where nuance goes to die

the original criticism of the “not like other girls” mentality does have merit. it’s basically just an identification of a common form of internalized misogyny—lumping all other young women into a shallow monolith with little to no differentiation or depth & identifying yourself as one of the few girls with any sort of complexity or value is indeed a shitty, misogynistic, and self-aggrandizing paradigm. but instead of actually analyzing why statements like “i’m not like other girls bc i don’t waste time doing my hair. i read books instead 🙄” are harmful & coming to that conclusion, the entire thing gets flattened into “a young women saying she struggles to fit in is bad & worthy of scorn!!!!” we’ve completely lost the plot by that point. we don’t actually understand why the “not like other girls” mentality is a problem, so we can’t determine when or if any sort of criticism of a similar sounding sentiment is warranted.

on a similar note, i saw a creator i follow online draw some fire for selling pride flag merch back in june. they got a pretty hostile anon along the lines of “i really hope you’re donating the proceeds you get for that merch to give back to the communities you’re profiting from,” to which the person was like, “i’m a queer small business owner. i’m giving back to the queer community by making sure i can pay my bills this month.”

more or less, the person who sent this anon had clearly seen criticisms of big corporations, like disney, selling pride merch & then pocketing the profits, which are fully warranted. but instead of stopping to think about why that’s actually a problem, they flattened the entire thing to “anyone who sells something with a rainbow on it must donate the profits!!!!!” there was absolutely no nuance or appreciation that no, a queer small business owner selling some pride merch is not the same thing as a megacorporation engaging in rainbow capitalism.

anyway, sorry you got more than you bargained for in this answer. this is just something that’s been brewing in my mind for a while & i wanted to express it. at the end of the day, i think all of us need to think about, analyze, and understand ideological positions before we just mindlessly adopt them & wield them indiscriminately against others, bc i am getting very very tired 😂

[sandsofdteam-moved]

takeaways and lil analysis on change my clothes bc wow

after both Mask and now Change My Clothes I’ve gone into a rant channel and just word dumped about the song so I figured why not put it on the internet? 

analysis ramble below the cut! mostly about the lyrics but there’s a blurb on the music too <3

I'm not even gonna get into the lyrics yet because there is so much to unpack but musically it's such a vibey song. I genuinely cannot find a better word for it, it feels homely but professional, but something that could very easily be made acoustic (and there is potential, Alec can we trust you with this?). I love the syncopation during the verses, it adds to the stream of consciousness feel that the verses have. I really like the underlying guitar as well! It's very Alec Benjamin and fits both of their voices perfectly— this was some really great mixing by whoever put this together because there’s a sharpness to Alec’s voice that is mellowed by the softness of Dream’s, especially in the second chorus. Heart eyes all around :D

Lyrically this song hits in every aspect, not only hitting home aspects of depression (which Mask also touched on) but for any fan of Dream there's a lot of nuance to them. To the first point, it makes clear that anyone struggling with this lack of motivation isn't alone, but reminds the subject of the song that "you miss all of the shots that you don't take" as a comeback to all of the negative thoughts that the first half of the verses introduce. The bridge especially emphasizes this, saying that it's better to try and fail than to not try at all. It's okay to take the little steps and that'll get you to the larger goals that you have.

For fans of Dream, the verses and bridge can be seen as very personal and kind of like a secret message: for one, he has talked in the past about not being totally certain about his success on YouTube when he first started the Dream channel. He put up a front and had a "fake it 'till you make it" attitude, which I think the first verse really emphasizes. It's him convincing himself that it's worth trying to achieve what was his childhood dream. 

The second verse is about the speedrunning controversy, point blank. He was convinced that his numbers and by extension himself were in the right. But he talks about the humiliation he faced at the expense of holding him accountable for his actions. The word accountability even falls perfectly on 1:16, which is the version in which the disputed speedrun was played on. The verse also talks about his struggle to go outside as a faceless creator— he's said in the past that he rarely goes out with Sapnap and barely leaves the house, so he doesn't leave his comfort zone. But as the pandemic seemingly begins to either stagnate or get better, he's branching out and becoming more confident in posting pictures of himself online, putting his emotions out in vulnerable songs too.

It also feels like him hearkening back to one of my favorite Dream quotes of all time: "Biggest lesson from it all for me was to never assume that someone has malicious intentions even if their actions seem malicious." He has learned that maybe his hotheadedness from last year maybe wasn't the best way to go, and that he's learned from the criticism and utter humiliation that he went through at the hands of the larger internet. He had to learn how to calmly talk to people that didn't like him, and to understand why someone was criticizing him rather that flat-out denying it.

He also has said how he's putting his all into what he's doing— he's essentially living out his childhood dreams, and he wants to keep the ball rolling on that. The bridge touches on how he needs to break free from any of his inhibitions and keep trying out new and better things, whether that be music, variety on stream, branching out to a wider range of people business-wise, etc. He also drops a lore bit on the 7 month anniversary of him getting put into Pandora's Vault, with the lyric "I'd rather fail than spend my life in a jail of my very own creation" because he's done that. In more than just roleplay. That line is accountability 100%— he wants to acknowledge whatever he's done and show that he's outgrown it and that he's not a static person but one willing to remedy whatever got him in trouble, into 'jail', in the first place.

Long story short, Change My Clothes is probably my favorite Dream song so far and it feels so personal on the ‘your struggles aren’t isolated’ but also the ‘this is what I’ve learned, don’t make my mistakes’ level while being a vibe and a jam

[classicslesbianopinions]

You come off as really white saviory and culturally Christian-centric with your "um religions are important to The POCs Of Color People so you aren't allowed to critisize them uwu". I had to leave my country because the state religion (forced upon us by colonizers bc yes Christianity is a colonizer religion that demonized our indeginous ones) considers me an abomination worthy of lashings and imprisonment and corrective rape. The most anti religion people I've met are queer Immigrant survivors with religious trauma, not white Reddit bros who only care about sounding intellectually superior online.

We have a voice too and we exist. Don't silence us with your patronising Noble Savage rhetoric.

thank you for sharing your experience-- i like... agree that i am probably the wrong person to have any of this discourse, i've really just been reacting to things people have been saying in our notes and now i've wound up here.

however i'm a little baffled by your "religions are important to the pocs of color people" thing here just because like... i don't think i've mentioned people of color? i think i mentioned antisemitism and islamophobia in the tags of that one post, and looking back i definitely should have phrased those tags differently/less flippantly, so i apologize for that. otherwise i haven't mentioned any specific groups, but the reason i care about this and talk about it is that religion is important to me personally.

when i talk about religion i'm largely informed by my experience growing up in a secular christian family, not trusting religion because my only impression of it was christianity, which i never vibed with, and eventually realizing that religion can be positive and healing, that i value religion and want to be in religious spaces, and that i would like to convert to judaism. when not informed by my own feelings and experience, most of what i say about religion comes directly from what i've seen and heard from others in my research towards that end. specifically, there is a lot of violence against jewish people simply for being jewish, and being blanketly anti-religion feeds into that.

i don't think religions or religious people are or should be exempt from criticism. i've been very purposeful in specifying that my issue is with people who are blanketly and without nuance against all religion-- that doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't criticize specific religions or specific religious people. you absolutely can and should. christianity more than deserves criticism. that's not the same as being anti-religion.

and of course i'm very sorry that happened to you, anon, it's absolutely horrible. people have done terrible things in the name of christianity, and it's unforgivable. i hope you have found/can find some kind of safety. thank you again for sharing your experience.

[magic-can]

I'm coming from the Dream thread because I saw scumbags saying horrendous things to you for questioning a narrative, just want to say that you're great, thanks for being level-headed and calm, and hope you have a great day/week/life <3

Oh yeah, they’re also talking about me behind my back (one of them blocked me but immediately before that they replied to me and I used a separate link to their blog bc I was curious about what they said and they were just. straight up lying about me and for some reason they’re bringing my religion into it) but like. the whole thing really doesn’t bother me except for the fact that 1. I have a feeling they’re stalking my blog and 2. I honestly feel bad for them and other people like them.

People who are obsessed with online discourse are very destructive to mainly themselves, honestly. I say this as someone who used to partake in it all the time (and admittedly, I got involved in it again recently but that’s just the thing. I was having medication withdrawl and was hating everything and felt like being self destructive again. Not an excuse but an explanation and I’m pointing out that I know from personal experience). Your critical thinking skills are destroyed, you assume anyone with a nuanced perspective is fence-sitting and/or your enemy, you take minor things such as blocking or not responding and assign unneeded meaning to them, etc. etc. That’s not a way to live life.

Of course, that’s not to say that online discussions should never happen or that they’re all petty, it’s just that a lot of them are and come from wanting to feel like doing something meaningful without actually doing anything at all.

As for Dream himself, I think it’s funny that people are acting like I’m defending him just because I have even a remotely nuanced perspective. I’ve said multiple times that I don’t like the guy and am weirded out by a lot of his behavior. Plus I think that fans of the DSMP who are also critical of him (yes they exist) do a lot more for bringing awareness to the really bad things he’s done than people who tell kids online to kill themselves for simply watching anything DSMP related.

Sorry for the rant, I’m just frustrated about online discourse. Thank you for your kind words. Things are…a mixed bag for me rn but looking up in the long run, thank you for the good wishes 💜 same goes for your kind anon, you seem to be a very gentle soul and your compassion is needed in the world

[nimbus-tatze]

so the lab grown meat post ( https://nimbus-tatze.tumblr.com/post/639887396603920384/ok-so-lab-grown-meat-i-hate-with-a-passion-the ) gained a bit of traction and I decided to adress how to approach agriculture, some of these technologies and how to help out rural communities, thanks goes to @lordofthechips

Mostly I've listed attitudes/mindsets you may want to adopt to a certain degree, depending on your circumstances and beliefs. Anyone can add if they have good advice, but essentially 'get rid of animal ag' ain't it.

Don't generalize and try to look for nuance, especially coming from the locals/experts. Influencers aren't experts. It'd be lovely if more of us try to let rural communities make their own decisions and don't talk over them. That includes online posts.

Instead of always looking for new answers, look for older ones as well. There is a reason many traditions have become traditions. As you lose them through modernization you lose generational knowledge. Not a call for bigotry in case that's not clear.

Agriculture is different in each case. Don't try to make one solution fit every case or judge them if they don't. Hating animal agriculture is one thing, but when you want to get rid of it you include indigenous people, poor people, etc. There is a reason these people continue to do it that way and they know better than you why.

If you have the time/opportunity try to help out on a farm for a while, especially during harvest, feel free to do so. It's a great way to learn, get into conversation with farmers and the community (think about all the people you meet on the way, those working in the small shops you might need to go into to grab a snack etc), and make connections.

Look up CSA farms in your area. Community Supported Agriculture. I don't know how it works elsewhere but where I live we come together as a group, pick a farm, and get into an agreement with them to have an exclusive relationship as consumers with that farm. That means we as a community are their sole customers, but we agree to financially back the farm on a yearly basis (or 6 months and so on, each agreement can be different). So we agree on a price and pay that even if there is no produce/products yet. We don't have to pay every single time we get food, can make requests to grow certain cultures or apply certain practices, and can also frequently visit the farm. If the harvest is extra good that year, we don't have to pay more. In return the farmer is financially insured against stuff like a few years of bad harvest or issues with livestock, can get additional funding for expanding their operation etc. It's oversimplified here, and there are varieties so if you like to learn more about the german model you can look for SoLaWi (Solidarische Landwirtschaft). In my case farmers drive their stuff into the city for us on specific days and in locations close to your neighbourhood and hand you a box with what you want.

Don't talk over people in their own field. Don't go into the field with the intentions of a missionairy. You wouldn't try to teach a virologist about Covid. I hope. Even if you have reason to believe that person is wrong about the point they make, don't try to disprove it, that's the job of other people of the field. And they already make sure to disprove what's wrong.

essentially like the point above but If you decide to quote someone from the field don't do it against someone also from that field. Don't direct indigenous quotes at me to discredit my indigenous experiences for example, especially if you aren't indigenous yourself. That's a conversation for us. Also each tribe/scientific field is different (look Point 1).

Look outside the western world and if you have the means to travel pls visit not just the popular tourist sites. The villages/towns can tell you so much more than I can in a post. Try to have a local host you if it's not too difficult for them.

Don't dismiss rural folks as dumb/naive/racist. Doesn't mean bigotry isn't a problem, but try to pick out what they are saying about rural communities and ag in particular, bc they're still locals and still know more about local circumstances. Stay on topic.

Be suspicious about feel-good-uwu-stuff. It doesn't always have to be bad, but if what you're looking at primarily adresses your emotions you wanna be suspicious. Like cute animal videos, anthropomorphism especially, tech that seems to magically solve an issue, that stuff.

But also, even if you feel suspicious about tech/agriculture/etc keep it mind it might help others out. I highly criticized lab grown meat from an ag engineering perspective, but also mentioned it is probably amazing for healthcare. Some gadgets we might call lazy, but they can be incredibly helpful to disabled people and so on. Let's try to keep a door open with the benefits other people in mind

I'll add constantly seek education to this list BUT I don't recommend specific documentaries or books, bc they can be misleading especially if one misses out on pre-info that those forms of media built on. There can be a lot of emotional manipulation, weird framing, and so on and even with factual statements it's easy to frame smth wrong, check out the entire dehydrogenmonoxid=water project a student tried out.

Not to say there isn't good stuff out there, but pls don't get caught in echo chambers. If you have access to academic sources try to use them, even if they're more 'boring'.

TL;DR: don't get polarized, use nuance and talk to a variety of people and leave the job of 'correcting' experts to other experts.

(Also it's a bit hastily put together, so I hope it answers the question, lemme know if not precisely enough!)

[fairycosmos]

i feel so bad about people making fun or rupi kaur :/ i do not like her poetry but i get paranoid when i see ppl making fun of others online esp to such a extent (they are viciously tearing her apart) bc an artist i knew years ago (painted & wrote stuff, was mildly famous) got made fun of like this and they killed themselves :( and now im paranoid about it. did u see that tik tok that is going viral?? imagine thousands making fun of u like this. ive gone thru this and ive harmed myself :(

i get what you mean, yeah i did catch that tiktok omg. i’ve always gone back and forth on this in my head cuz it’s kind of a nuanced convo to me. on the one hand, if you want to be a professional writer and put your work out there and profit off of it - and if you’re lucky enough to even get that chance - then you have to take the criticism that comes with it. even better if you can apply it to your craft to improve. and any artist knows what they’re letting themselves in for when they make their stuff public. if she was in a place mentally where couldn’t handle it, it wouldn’t be smart to pursue it in the first place. plus some of the commentary i’ve seen surrounding her work is very valid. like the accusations of plagiarism, the technique behind some of her poems being shallow and contrived yet initially lauded as ground-breaking and deep etc. it’s fair game to poke fun at that, or to state your feelings on it, imo. that being said, she is definitely singled out more than most and i think that’s a side effect of her work being overly popular on instagram back in the day (que people who have to hate on all things popular, especially things enjoyed by or pertaining to young women.) i don’t think disliking her poems warrants sending vitriolic hatred her way either. so weird. i understand your concern bc like, ppl always take it so far on the internet esp tiktok/twitter, and you never know what could tip someone over the edge. there needs to be a clear distinction made between commentary/opposing opinions and personal attacks. i’m not sure how badly they’re tearing her apart because i’ve only seen the one tiktok, but if there’s genuine hatred being directed toward her as a person then idk i agree. people need to get a hold of themselves and learn how to approach discussions like an adult. you can criticize someones work, even call them out if they need to be called out, without being super cruel - at least in this context where as far as i know, she’s not causing serious harm to anyone. it astounds me how quickly that’s forgotten in online spaces, even at times by myself. i hope she has a decent support system around her and isn’t exposed to the comments that just cross the line. and i hope you’re doing better these days love. you’re clearly a caring and thoughtful person and i’m really sorry you’ve had ppl be so mean to you. it honestly says a lot about them and nothing about you. especially if there’s a hate train or if it’s a trend to hate something in particular. that’s where ppl get a sense of self esteem unfortunately. sending love x

[mouthfacedickrat]

I’m tired of discussions abt paganism/Punk rock/witchcraft/history/insert other hobbies “poisoned” by the far right. Every time someone tries to say “those guys are assholes, they’re not my friends, and they aren’t representative of this subculture/interest” they get accused of using the no true Scotsman fallacy. That’s... not how that works.... Obvi someone who talks abt what “real” witches or whatever do is in fact employing a logical fallacy, but ppl who just want to say “I’m not a nazi, and in fact I hate nazis and don’t associate with them” have not done anything deserving of snide replies about how obviously this is the real character of their subculture and they’re just in denial.

I am so tired of everyone bitching about how “we” haven’t done enough to keep right-wingers out of “our spaces.” This is such a weird take. One cannot control the actions of other people unless one 1) knows who they are and 2) has the power to persuade them by either words or force. We usually cannot prevent random violent white people from doing internet research on punk music or WWII. We can beat up and shun shitty people when we encounter them co-opting our interests irl, but you are in fact unlikely to casually run into these shitty people because oh, idk, they probably actively avoid you and vice versa, since aside from your one interest or subculture or whatever, y’all have n o t h i n g in common.

And when you do encounter these ppl in real life? From each according to their ability, my dude. Why are we yelling at sickly teens on the internet about their failure to regularly beat nazi ass??? These dickheads run in groups, and are usually armed. Fuck them up when you can! Absolutely! I’m just tired of the mindset that we all seemingly have a superpower that allows us to instantly push nazis out of our spaces. That one story abt a bartender kicking out a nazi skinhead is inspirational, but can we please use critical thinking? That story is about a person who situationally HAS the power to kick that guy out, and it’s JUST one guy. Yeah you have to kick out the first nazi to make sure their friends don’t start coming around, but you have to 1) know they’re even there 2) recognize they’re a nazi and 3) have the ability to deny them access! How does this lesson translate to the internet??? Ban them from your forum? (assuming you even fucking run one or have mod powers anywhere online) Oh, you mean the way everyone worth a damn is already doing?? They’ll just fucking make their own, and tech giants have shown time and again that they’re not interested in shutting right-wing extremists down. And irl? What do you think will happen to you if you walk your happy ass up to a tent full of odinists at a ren faire? That battle is the organizers’ to fight, and if they’re not willing to fight it, they’re not “us” and you’re not in “our space!” You’re just accidentally in a nazi space! Woops, don’t do it again, I guess (at least not without some friends backing you up). 

The truth is, people who aren’t nazis already do not tolerate nazis in their spaces. That doesn’t stop the shitheads from running away to their own turf and continuing to loudly and publicly misappropriate others’ symbols and activities. I think the real problem is that when they do this, people consistently give up their subcultures, interests, and religions. It’s not when fash take an interest that the thing dies, it’s when you give it up out of cynicism and fash are the ONLY ONES still talking about it! That’s when you’ve actually lost your shit for good. And getting mad at ppl for not magically reaching in the heads of extremists and yoinking all the cool interests out of there is facilitating this. Y’all are the very problem you’re bitching about. You’re mad at people for “failing” in some nebulous way at a task that a) doesn’t exist and b) shouldn’t even be anyone’s primary focus. Keep being a witch or a history nerd or whatever. Do it loudly, and publicly, and set a good example for others who are interested. Otherwise, I guess you can keep letting nazis chase you from your own culture while self castigating bc you didn’t somehow prevent a white supremacist from googling “cottagecore aesthetics” in the comfort of their own home.

This post is not for sophists and petty discourse-jockeys to clown on. This is an argument on which you must be --> this nuanced to ride. Don’t fucking send me messages or comments about how I’m saying it’s ok to use swastikas bc they were appropriated. I’m not saying you should use hate symbols that will cause other people to fear for their life in your presence! I’m saying stop giving up your normal-ass interests and activities to shitty people. And for fuck’s sake stop harassing people who are obviously not far-right, just because they like My Little Pony or Greco-Roman architecture or something. Stop it. Get some help.

[edwardsvirginity]

a short(er) twilight-themed guide to my dissertation on memes

for anyone who wants to know why and how i wrote 8k words of academic theory on memes, but doesn’t actually want to read 8k words of academic theory on memes

so to begin with, a meme is really hard to define. this part is pretty boring if you don’t care about linguistics, so just take my word for it. i ask a lot of questions like “is a meme still a meme if” (no one shares it, no one makes different versions of it, there’s no standard format for it) and the answer is “sometimes! but we can’t tell you when!” and i also ask “how do you know when you’re looking at a meme?” to which the answer is “you just do! except when you don’t. that happens too.”

so basically, memes are like porn, you know them when you see them

then i talk about why it’s hard to study memes. this is fairly obvious if you think about it. imagine trying to find out the source of a random meme. and then every iteration of that meme anyone has ever made. then how popular each iteration got. how one iteration inspired another. how many times each iteration is reposted by someone else without credit. THEN, attempt to do that for every meme in existence. actually, just try and get a definitive count of how many memes exist. then, realizing that’s impossible, attempt to choose a “random” selection of memes to study not influenced by your personal online world. attempt to study memes that you don’t even know exist bc they don’t exist within your highly-customized online world. basically, memes are a rabbit hole and i don’t even pretend to do any sort of formal semi-comprehensive study, because i do not hate myself.

ok, moving on. i’m actually trying to write this post based on what I remember from my dissertation, which i haven’t reread in... a while. but i like to think i have a fairly good grasp of it bc i wrote it.

so basically the most important part about memes is that they function on at least 2 levels. let’s say there’s an active level and a passive level. the active level is the conversation you THINK you’re having when engaging with a meme. the clearly stated point/idea of the meme. the passive level is all the assumptions a meme is making in the background that, if you are not actively challenging, you are endorsing.

let’s see some examples.

this is a meme *i* made, so i’m gonna put myself on blast here

So the active level of this meme is the text/the point i’m trying to make, which is basically that bella is horny. but like, so horny that she’s willing to throw everything else in her life under the bus for some sexual satisfaction. i feel like this is fairly clear and most people interacting with the meme would consider that what the meme is about. we’re having a conversation about bella’s insatiable thirst for sparkling penis when we engage with this meme. 

sort of an in-between level that provides us with further information about the point i’m trying to make is context for the meme/meme format. this meme format is about someone choosing between a good thing and a bad thing. they’ve got the good thing, but they’re tempted by/indulging in the bad thing anyway. it’s fairly reasonable to come to the conclusion that i’m judging bella, when you combine the meme context with the actual text. i’m not only interpreting bella’s behavior here (she eschews her loved ones for sexual gratification), i’m also giving it moral value, labeling yeeting herself onto that dick = bad, building/maintaining relationships with friends and family = good. however, if you’re not familiar with this meme and it’s format, the fact that i’m throwing shade at bella is less clear, even if you understand how i’m interpreting her behavior. 

now on to the passive level of the meme. this meme makes some ASSUMPTIONS, and in engaging with the meme you’re validating those assumptions as “how this thing is/how the world works”. so here are a FEW of the assumptions this meme makes: 1. this is a man with his girlfriend checking out another girl. 2. the girlfriend is angry/jealous of her boyfriend expressing interest in another woman 3. everyone in this photo is heterosexual 4. men are always checking out other women/otherwise unfaithful, and this is normal/funny 5. this “couple” is monogamous 6. the “boyfriend” is relatable and we understand and condone his actions 7. maintaining a relationship with the “girlfriend” is a good decision and pursuing the girl in red would be a bad one

these assumptions might seem fairly clear, obvious, and straightforward, but they are ultimately, assumptions. we know NOTHING about the people in this photo and are projecting relationships on them. and clearly, we’re projecting some pretty intense gender and relationship roles on to them. and it’s necessary to accept those gender and relationship roles as “truth” long enough to understand the meme, because otherwise the meme wouldn’t make any sense, because the person who made it (me) made it with the understanding that you would be operating with the same set of assumptions about these people and their relationships as I am. understanding of what i’m trying to say with this meme is dependent on understanding and accepting the assumptions i’m handing you with it. 

and again, these ARE assumptions. take away the text, and there could be plenty of things going on in this photo. it’s possible none of these people are in romantic relationships, and this is a guy with his friend/family member, and they like to hold hands. this guy could be whistling at a dog he sees on the sidewalk because he wants to pet it, and the girl in blue is mad because they’re in a hurry. the girl in red could be his ACTUAL girlfriend, whose self esteem he’s boosting, and the girl in blue could be some random girl who wants his attention. this could be a couple in an open relationship, but the girlfriend is in the middle of an argument with this guy about something else. the guy could have shoulder checked the girl in red and is looking back to say sorry, and the girl in blue is mad bc shoulder checking this poor girl was a rude af thing to do. 

the reason why we don’t think any of those things ^^ upon seeing this meme is bc we live in the patriarchy. however, unfortunately, by sharing this meme uncritically, we’re also reinforcing the passive ideas within it, that men are unfaithful and it’s no big deal, that women are always competing with each other, that heterosexuality and monogamy are standard and correct. 

let’s look at another meme.

i didn’t make this one, i found it on a really cringy list of (old) twilight memes

active level of this meme: kristen stewart never smiles

in-between context level: this is the “most interesting man in the world” meme, where, bc he’s so interesting, he rarely has time to do normal things, and when he does them, he does them in a weird way. so according to this meme, kristen rarely smiles, and when she does, she does it in a weird way

passive level: kristen stewart SHOULD smile, and the fact that she doesn’t is weird/bad. WHY she doesn’t smile, and WHY she should, is left to viewer interpretation, but the implication is she’s doing something wrong. this meme wants you to fill in the blanks with the idea that kristen stewart is a bad actress because she doesn’t smile. it also reinforces the idea that women are SUPPOSED to smile and not be serious all the time. you could even go so far as to assume this meme is condemning bella’s character as a whole for being overdramatic and not smiling, playing into the narrative that women are hysterical and get upset about things that aren’t a big deal, and we shouldn’t take them seriously. personally, i think kristen’s acting in twilight was spot-on and super nuanced, and it was true to bella’s character that she didn’t smile often. i also think that kristen as a person smiles a reasonable amount and is only criticized for not smiling bc ppl so heavily associate her with bella. but if i were to share this meme uncritically, i wouldn’t just be reaffirming the (false) idea that kristen stewart doesn’t smile, i would also be reinforcing the idea that women SHOULD smile all the time, kristen is a bad actress, and bella is a bad character. i could go further into the sexism of all that but this is already long. 

HOW DID I GET AWAY WITH WRITING ABOUT THIS FOR MY MASTERS DEGREE?? 

basically, while you think you’re engaging in a conversation on one level with memes, you’re actually engaging in a lot of conversations. when it comes to political memes, often the “passive” levels of the memes come with a lot of ideas about how the world is or should work, which you reinforce when engaging with those memes. these passive assumptions shape the conversations we’re having, and the kind of policies we’re willing to support. memes come encoded with opinions on gender, relationships, race, sexuality, class, etc, and and make declarations about how these things DO or SHOULD work, shaping our own personal understanding of them. a meme that makes donald trump look stupid is advocating for different policies/political decisions than one that makes him look dangerous. and if all of our memes about trump focus on him looking stupid, we put more political effort into addressing that problem than the problem that he’s dangerous. memes can be used to challenge norms/question widely accepted ideas (here’s an example i literally just made):

but they can also be used to help people internalize ideas/messages that they wouldn’t be willing to accept uncritically if those ideas were presented in a different format. sometimes this is good, if you use memes to help people internalize good messages, like self-love. however, unfortunately in recent years this has mostly been used to radicalize lonely men, who internalize increasingly more hateful assumptions in memes and don’t realize that they’re doing it, because those messages are not explicit. just look at how pepe became a hate symbol. if you laugh at enough memes that operate on the assumption that women are sluts, you’re gonna start believing women are sluts, and are gonna be more likely to laugh at memes that imply that women are bad because they’re slutty, then that since they’re bad they don’t deserve rights, etc. 

basically, memes shape our understanding of how the world works because they make assumptions about how the world works that we have to agree with in order to understand the meme. when these assumptions involve identities or politics, they affect how we understand those things, and what conversations we have about them.

and that’s basically my dissertation on memes, minus a lot of other discussions about pop culture, humor, and group formation. 

any questions??

[fiovske]

This is me being awkward and emo and loving you already

Submitting because it’s so freking long whoops…This could be a pile of dumbass statements, tbh I’m just overemotional sometimes (and we Italians are known for sucking at foreign languages so I cannot guarantee that what I wrote makes sense), so I apologize in advance :’)

ok now that I’ve read your adorable tags I just HAVE to tell you this because believe it or not I’ve been thinking about sending you this message for like, the past 10 days or so (but I didn’t wanna sound awkward or anything): it’s such a pleasure seeing you on my dashboard. You represent everything I love about fandoms.

You see, I’m a lil weird… I hate every kind of conflict, both irl and online. Fandom wars? My nightmare! I often see posts written by/for antis where the only way to defend a character/ an actor/ a concept, is to destroy another one. And not only I dislike it, it also makes me very VERY uncomfortable and it’s what usually ruins a fandom for me. Of course calling out toxic behaviours is okay, but other than that I find the whole ‘antis vs stans’ culture very unsettling (rn I’m thinking about Steve and Tony in particular because you recently stated that you don’t like Civil War and I couldn’t agree more).

But your blog is just the opposite! I mean, aside from the excellent quality content, you never reblog/write anything negative. Instead, you choose to analyze characters and situations in a positive and critical way, and whenever you reblog something vaguely more ‘aggressive’ you always clarify in the tags that your own point of view is actually far less extreme. For someone like me, that means the world. I genuinely find your blog somehow soothing, like a wonderful and peaceful place (now you know what I meant when I said I was afraid to sound awkward lmao).

And since your blog says a lot about you, all the things I’ve just said apply to you as a person as well. I can’t say I know you, of course (tho I’d love to), but I’m pretty sure you’re just as soft and respectful irl as I imagine you to be.

I love and cherish every one of my followers, mutuals or not, and that’s a fact. And needless to say, all the people I listed in my post deserve that spot. But know that even if we’ve never actually had a conversation, you have a special place in my heart (aaaand again, a w k w a r d  girl alert!), and that you’re one of my favourite people here.

Idk if you were serious about the friendship thing and I understand that creating a real friendship online is difficult for loads of people, but if you were serious I look forward to be your friend :’) <3

– 

ok @godisavalkyrie I dont even know where to start okay, so I’m gonna make points in the order of how I go thru the paras bc aaaaa

ok first of all, I love seeing you on my dash cause you rb sUCH amazing stuff and also when I see you reblogged the stuff I reblogged it makes me feel this dsjkgkd happiness like “aaah yes, I have pleased The Friend” kind of emotion OK, you’re just so smart and so wholesome on the internet I lov u big time OK

and lol i’m awkward as hell so dont worry if the conversation ever gets weird its bc i dont know how to carry a conversation but that doesn’t mean I dONt wanna be fRIENDS ok we gOT THIS

and oh yea, antis of any kind are just the worst like if u dont like something then fiNE! dont like it, but nah they’re gonna make blogs and stuff to make specific posts to POST hate and that’s the lamest fucking thing like wow you’re talking this way about fictional characters pleas chill go eat a pizza or something idk stop being so hateful jesus fck

oo ya I totally get ur conflict point bc some days im like that but some days my impulsive ass is ready to fight lololol srri I’m 5ever bitter with CW dsngkdsngk I think the writing could have been vastly more nuanced but well, Marvel had a plan and they tried their best lol. Your stand on the whole anti vs stans thing is so justified bc honestly it gets very very toxic in the fandom it’s suffocating like people are rude to people for NO reason but simple dumb hate it’s absolutely ridiculous.

i’m gonna cry this is the fucking sweetest thing anyone’s ever said to me gosshhhhh I try to keep my blog the kind of thing I’d come back and enjoy going thru and feel good about i’m so happy to hear you like it aaajkkfhsgj catch my brain machine breAKING skjgkg <3

aaaa what’re you tlaking about online friendships are THE JAM I’ve met a couple of people here online that I’m ready to die for and i know online friendships are hard to sustain but i gUESS WE’RE GONNA FIND OUT BC guess wHAT WE’RE FRIENDS NOW (if ur ok with it plsss)

You’re legit one of the kindest sweetest people I’ve met on this hellsite and I’m so glad to have met you the fact that you tag me in those posts like shit that’s too damn soft ughhh it makes me so emo everytimee I’m just,,,, really overwhelmed,,,, know that I LOV U and we can be awkward together BABAAEEEEYYYY

[elftwink]

i don't think trans*ndrophobia truthers realize that they also make it Harder for some transmascs to talk about our experiences properly - personally it's become a lot harder to talk about my experiences with both transphobia and misogyny as a transmasc m+f multigender person bc every discussion inevitably becomes some form of justifying "trans*ndrophobia" as a term, or someone pulling the ~we ALL experience transmisogyny~ shit. people insisting on terms like "trans*ndrophobia" and etc

(2) really just feels like trying to establish another form of binary tbh; transmisogyny as a term exists bc there's countless statistics and years of evidence setting it as a form of oppression apart from other forms of transphobia, but now people are just scrambling for an oppression label for the transphobia every "type" of trans person experiences. it just doesn't sit right (sorry for the rant in your inbox btw, it's relieving to see smn else fed up w the "trans*ndrophobia" crowd lmao)

yes exactly my thoughts on it; the attempt to create some kind of universal transmasc oppression alienates people who don't fit that kind of framework. and it this point it's often difficult to even talk around it because if you try someone else hops onto your post and attempts to stuff you into that framework. admittedly this is often well-meaning but the fact that they don't view that behaviour as derailing the conversation to me is what has always indicated that they don't care about the nuances of that convo anyway, unless it can be used to further validate what they already believe.

one thing that really drives me up the wall about it is when you read posts about the term by people who use it, it feels like they're not willing to acknowledge that a lot of the pushback is from other transmasc people (or they don't realize, or whatever). instead it's framed really vaguely like "oh they're trying to take away our language" presenting 'trans*ndrophobia' as some topic that unifies all transmascs while only outsiders push back, thereby further proving how oppressed transmascs are and how much "we" need the term. i.e. "if it wasn't real, why would people hate us so much for suggesting it was?"

only that's not what's happening. this is a purely intracommunity debate that exists at this point almost solely online in primarily transmasc circles. most of the people who speak on it are transmasc, most people who form an opinion at all are transgender in some way. while i can't read anyone's mind and am not accusing anyone of intentionally misleading people, it does get a bit frustrating to have people act like i'm in the in-group (and therefore agree with them) while attributing my actual opinions to some nebulous "them" in an equally nebulous "us vs them" depiction of the situation. it allows them to feel like they're speaking for the good of all transmascs while ignoring whoever doesn't already agree with them. and it allows them to severely dramatize and play up what is, at its core, online tumblr transmasc discourse. which isn't to say it's not important but that i resent reading posts about how not using a stupid term many of us don't even like or find useful presents an existential threat to the transmasc community when really it's like some transmasc people said "i invented a term lets use it for xyz" and other transmasc people went "i don't like that and think it's bad for abc reasons" and that's literally where we are now. it's dishonest, regardless of whether it's intentional, and it demonstrates they're not really paying that much attention to any criticisms (but what else is new in this community lmao)

you're on the same page i am re: labelling although i think the establishment of any new binary is accidental and probably not even noticed because it's really buried in this idea of 'everyone deserves to have a label' which is then obfuscated by saying "everyone deserves to have language to talk about their experiences" (which. lmao. i guess we never were able to talk about our experiences before this term was invented, what, less than a year ago? a couple years ago? okay); at its core it's a deeply self-centred analysis of oppression. it's honestly frustrating to even bring up any facts or try to make a counter argument because it doesn't and will never matter bc they will never ever address these criticisms head on. bc it's simply so much easier to willfully misunderstand what transmisogyny (the term) means and the significance of it, and characterize any dissent as some kind of censorship or silencing or transmasc voices. if you can fold in any genuine criticisms of your views and behaviors and make them synonymous with the marginalization you face, you never have to deal with the substance of the criticisms. i have yet to see anyone give a satisfying rebuttal to any points about transmisogyny, and about 90% of the time they miss the point entirely and default back to "if trans women get a label we should get one too". which is both childish and also does not address literally anything anyone is (or at least what i personally am) actually arguing. like we're going "it's not necessary and is often harmful to make up terms for different 'versions' of oppression. the reason some people have those highly specific terms is because in general that language is used to describe power systems, not directly apply to interpersonal experiences (though it often can be applied that way)" and they're like "but i want a specific term for my oppression to indicate it is also unique and important" like. nobody said it wasn't and that is so beside the point i'm gonna explode

[longlivefeedback]

hey! so, i'm sure this is something that's been discussed, but i can't find any discourse on your blog. i'm a fic writer and NOTHING annoys me more than the "don't say anything negative" attitude toward fanfiction. if someone leaves a comment that says "i loved your fic but i'm curious as to why character didn't do [x] since it seems a little inconsistent..." or "loved it! just wanted to point out a couple small inaccuracies that most people won't notice but since i work in this field..." (1/?)

it shows me that the commentor was paying attention and thinking about my writing, and isn’t that the ENTIRE point of posting your writing online? i’ve run across quite a few writers who will criticise any criticism or less-than-effusive comments, and it just really, really annoys me. the main reason i think is bc i legitimately LOVE fanfiction—it’s my preferred thing to write/read over original fiction bc it allows me to focus on just exploring the characters since people are already(2/?)

familiar with them/the canon verse. it’s why i hate that it isn’t taken as seriously as original fic, and i really think this culture of “don’t engage unless you only have good things to say” is one of the reasons it just isn’t taken seriously. ofc, not saying that you should just point out all the flaws, but some polite, helpful concrit or probing questions in addition to praise?? makes me really happy tbh. idk maybe i just take it too seriously but (¾)

it REALLY bothers me, and so i wanted to read some debate on this matter from both sides — not just writers, not just readers. this my extremely long-winded way of asking: do you guys have any posts like this?? (4/4)

LLF response: Hi Anon! We do have some posts about commenting culture and a brief guide to supporting authors, as well as reblogs on a guide to reviews and an overview of fandom commenting. Assuming you’ve looked through those posts, the reason why you cannot find anything that addresses your specific concern (i.e. questions in comments bringing up inconsistencies or trying to understand why a character appears to be acting OOC) is probably because LLF has been primarily concerned with broad structural changes and feedback initiatives thus far and the topic you raise, while valid and important to feedback culture, is a bit too nuanced for the current focus of this blog.That being said, I think that your ask brings up some interesting assumptions and perceptions that are critical for fandom health and which I can give my personal opinion on under the jump.

Full disclaimer, the following is my (mod dragonling’s) personal opinion and interpretation of the ask.

1. i’m a fic writer and NOTHING annoys me more than the “don’t say anything negative” attitude toward fanfiction.

This to me is indicative of differing expectations for fandom. Let’s say that instead of fic writing, we’re all chefs (or people who make food) here. We each make a dish and now we want to share it with the world. Do you (A) take it to your friend’s house where they are holding a potluck celebration; (B) set up a stall at the state fair; or © enter it into a cooking/baking competition ala Chopped where 5 star judges and food critics will sample your food? Depending on where you take you food, you would expect very different reactions.

Generally speaking, you would probably want your friends at the potluck to thank you for bringing something and compliment you for how delicious your dish is. If you were still fine tuning your recipe, you could let them know and maybe they would be able to say one or two things they liked or didn’t like about it which you would file away for the evening, to be looked at for the next time you made something.

However, if you were at a state fair, even getting your dish looked at by the crowds of people milling around would be an achievement. If someone bought some of your food, that would be fantastic! If they bought it, took a bite, and then told you how tasty it was, even better! Those people that bought your food, went away, and then came back to tell you how much they enjoyed it or came back to buy some more and brought all their friends with them are heaven sent angels. You probably wouldn’t expect anyone to say anything negative about your food because even if you were still fine tuning the recipe, a state fair is neither the time or place where any sort of meaningful culinary discussion can really take place on a consistent basis.

The situation would be different if you were at a cooking competition. There, you would expect these food experts to pick apart your food. Maybe not steamroll and chew you out ala Gordon Ramsey, but even then if that’s what you were expecting and the kind of feedback you respond best to, then sign up for a competition he is judging at. Perhaps you don’t want to just be yelled at, but would actually like to be coached, then maybe enter a competition with more of a mentoring element versus cutthroat competition.

This all really boils down to knowing who your audience is and your expectations for them. I would say that posting to ao3 is closest to the state fair, and is why the “don’t say anything negative” attitude is perfectly acceptable and even encouraged. The fact that this annoys you indicates that there is some disconnect between what you really want and where you’re going in order to get it. I think that we can all agree that going to the state fair and expecting Gordon Ramsey to show up and tell you why your dish sucks is just…not going to happen. Even more, it’s something that shouldn’t happen. What if you were at the state fair to raise money for charity? No well meaning person is going to tell you that your food sucks and that you should do better and if they do, they don’t mean you well.

So, rather than get hung up on the “don’t say anything negative” attitude in fandom (which, I may add, is there and has been cultivated for a reason), take another look at your audience and your expectations. If you want criticism that is helpful and of good quality, go to an editor or join a writing group. If you want to give criticism, find someone to beta for where you can cultivate a relationship that is mutually beneficial. Don’t be a Gordon Ramsey walking around at the charity fair of home baked goods giving tips to the local families trying to raise funds to repair their schools. Be conscious of the fact that people write for different reasons, and that while some may be okay with great advice being shouted at them, for others, it is a nightmare. Be kind and don’t show up at the wrong party.

2. “i loved your fic but i’m curious as to why character didn’t do [x] since it seems a little inconsistent…” or “loved it! just wanted to point out a couple small inaccuracies that most people won’t notice but since i work in this field…”

I understand where you’re coming from, Anon, and the two examples you mentioned evoke an important point of why it is so difficult to give criticism online. Your questions attempt to illustrate how one might leave a comment that shows that the reader was paying attention and thinking about your writing, and from your ask, I can only assume that you would be thrilled to personally receive either of those comments. To assume that others would be similarly thrilled, however, is fallacious and a dangerous assumption. What works for you, may be hurtful to others. You pointing out “a couple [of] small inaccuracies” may be you being genuinely helpful, but to the author, it may come off as a reader assuming that they didn’t do their research, a reader being a know-it-all, or a reader missing the forest for the trees, especially if this is your one and only comment in a long multi-chaptered work.

Of course, things get even more nuanced when we consider context. Your comment about inaccuracies may be the best thing ever if the author specifically asked for guidance on this matter, or if you have a long standing relationship with this author and somehow commenting in ao3 is the way you beta for each other, or maybe this small inaccuracy is actually a big inaccuracy and you’re just trying to be super tactful about it… I could go on an on and on about it, but how you say things is often just as important as what you say, and in writing, where we do not have the benefit of verbal and visual cues, expressing what you mean becomes even more complicated.

Which is another reason why “don’t say anything negative” is the default. It’s harder to ruin someone’s day with only positive statements, especially when you don’t have the time or platform to really explain yourself and have a meaningful conversation with the author. This Anon’s view on concrit is worth pondering. If you don’t understand or agree with this sentiment, then the conversation we should be having is not “why doesn’t anyone leave concrit” but rather “what is concrit?” 

3. i’ve run across quite a few writers who will criticise any criticism or less-than-effusive comments, and it just really, really annoys me.

Going back to expectations and audiences; remember which party you’re going to. Also, what may seem like just a less-than-effusive comment to you, an outsider who stumbled upon this one comment thread, may actually be a long antagonistic war of words between author and commenter spanning many years, fandoms, and fics. I don’t know. It could happen. Maybe you just have a higher tolerance of trolls and criticism than the rest of us.

It’s certainly happened to me and Rose here on the LLF blog. Either we read the same ask differently or just have different reactions and ways of responding to things that tick us off. Even if we have a shared goal and have known each other for awhile, we’re both different people. It’s not reasonable for me to try to change Rose’s responses to match my own exactly. Just because you care about fanfiction so much doesn’t mean that everyone else does or should as well. If this is something that really truly annoys you and you are trying to see both sides of this issue, I think that you’re on the right track and want to encourage you to keep learning and thinking about it.

4. it isn’t taken as seriously as original fic, i really think this culture of “don’t engage unless you only have good things to say” is one of the reasons it just isn’t taken seriously.

I am not a literary expert, and cannot really opine on how fanfiction is viewed by traditional literature or whether a fantasy AU is better/worse than a published fantasy book or how they relate to the writings of Homer. I also am not sure what you mean by fanfiction not being taken “as seriously as original fic.” Certainly you take it seriously. I take it seriously enough to spend my free time on it, and I take fandom seriously enough that I am spending time I could be using to write fanfiction to help run this blog. If you mean that publishing houses will not pay any attention to a fanfiction story, I would agree because why would they? Fanfiction is, by definition, derived from original fiction. Publishing houses are after new and original content because copyright is a real thing.

Even then, let’s look at Fifty Shades of Grey. It’s Twilight fan fiction. Is it taken more seriously than Twilight? Why or why not? How does it compare to Harry Potter, or Pride or Prejudice? Reading and writing are such personal experiences that I hesitate to say that one piece of writing is inherently better than the other. Hence, I do not think that fan fiction’s audience who “don’t engage unless you only have good things to say” is a problem. To me, that’s like saying “anime isn’t as good as non-anime cartoons because people who watch anime don’t speak English.”

5. not saying that you should just point out all the flaws, but some polite, helpful concrit or probing questions in addition to praise…

Yes, agreed; and if this is what the author has asked for, please go ahead! However, please also remember that not everyone knows how to ask probing questions, give helpful concrit, or even be polite. Sometimes, they aren’t even trying to be rude. It just comes off as such. Maybe the commenter is having a bad day and can’t word right. Maybe the author is having a bad day and can’t read anything without their own personal negative bias clouding their perceptions.

It’s one of the things that we are trying to address at LLF so that these barriers are lower. It’s one of the reasons why some things (native comment templates) just will not work for AO3, because tone is hard to convey, nevermind that your audience probably numbers in the millions, each with their own personal biases and understanding of language. We know that even with giving kudos, people mean different things. Think about how difficult it is to convey sarcasm in writing. AO3 already receives flack for their kudos message, which is the way it is because can you come up with something better that will not tick off anyone? Maybe people want to be polite, maybe they want to be helpful, maybe they just don’t know how. We’re trying to change that and trying to give people the tools to help them comment: LLF Comment Builder, LLF Comment Project, in-line commenting (these tools are mostly focused on how to give positive comments because from the feedback we’ve gotten, people have a hard enough time doing that as is.)

But hey, if you want something for concrit or how to ask probing questions, don’t wait for us. Look up a good guide and reblog it. Encourage your followers to ask you questions about your writing. Write your own guide to commenting. Go. Be the change you want to see.

6. do you guys have any posts like this

So, after all that, LLF may not be the blog for you if you are interested in hearing as many opinions as possible about this topic. However, I would highly encourage you to check out @ao3commentoftheday, which has already hosted quite a few asks about this:

sometimes-i-dont-comment-because-im-a

actually-i-have-a-question-about-commenting

do-writers-like-constructive-criticism-in-reviews

about-the-leaving-only-glowing-praise-comments

about-concrit-i-dont-explicitly-discourage-it

its-not-about-wanting-concrit-its-about-wanting

1-with-concrit-i-think-the-question-is-not

Don’t forget to check the notes on those threads!