#there was already so much fandom wank occurring then

[crqstalite]

something that clicked for my last summer (that i remembered now bc i just saw a post from them thru a mutual) you dont have to follow someone with All The Right Opinions (and i mean that literally) if them constantly posting about these opinions and political topics is actively making you have a worse time online.

like i was becoming actively hesitant to scroll thru my dashboard because i was constantly thinking 'im going to see [x] and theyre going to post something actively distressing/drama im not part of but dont want to be bothered by all day', before it clicked that. i could just?? not follow them. and then they were gone and went back to trekking about tumblr.

its that simple and makes me a little. batty? (can i still use that word?) that i didnt think of it before.

[aeternallis]

May I just say though? Personally, when someone asks me to be accommodating towards them, I can usually entertain, should the circumstances allow it, and if I had also been given that in the first place.

However in this case, why exactly should I be made to feel obligated to accommodate that person (or anyone who had a hand on the dogpiling/gossip train) and give them the benefit of the doubt, when I myself was not given the courtesy?

That's like asking for something I don't have to give. You think it only takes a few days to get over incidents like this?

How about you all fucking try what it's like to be called "ableist" based on a few tags that was written in frustration, then to be dogpiled on and gossiped about god knows where, and called out publicly without even a chance to explain myself in private?

Like sure, now they ask me, now-when they may or may not have found out that I too am a POC in the fandom, who was just literally vibing in my own damn lane, when the defamation has already occurred, when I've already been gossiped about in certain circles, etc.

It's easier to ask for accommodation when the deed has already been done, yknow? LOL

I have no more hesitation to rant on this stupid blog of mine (besides the fact that this is my online diary, haha) since I've already been cancelled and called all kinds of ugly names in the book in this stupid fandom, but to whomever is still somehow keeping an eye on this blog-while I may not be in the icky habit of call out culture, please be aware that I have receipts.

And ngl, the hypocrisy is through the damn roof. Lol

Somehow those people who are still complaining about me on their platforms are bold enough with their back and forth behavior of "all fandom opinions should exist" vs "they should keep what I perceive to be character wank out of the tags" is such a damn whiplash that at this point, I'm pretty sure the two scary extremes of their behavior are all just efforts to create an echo chamber around them where their headcanons are affirmed.

And that's all well and good, create that echo chamber as much as y'all want and invite those people in said echo chamber under the guise of positivity, but lemme just say one thing now, as someone who's read the stupid KP novel twice now, as well as watched the show all the way through three times: no matter how much you want your headcanons to BE canon, THEY ARE NOT. echo chamber numbers don't mean shit against what's canon and what isn't.

Sure, pick and choose what aspects of canon you want to play with, that’s more than fine. But for the love of all the green pastures on god's earth, it is not a personal attack on you that I choose to engage in the canon dynamics, as depicted in the book and show. it is not a personal attack that I choose to talk about these things, omfg.

because believe me, I am NOT the only one with unpopular opinions in this fandom, and lemme tell y'all now, they want to be able to say what they want without fear of being cancelled, and you can only control an atmosphere of fandom for so long.

And finally, a few more things: one, the damn tags don't belong to anyone. Trying to control what is said in the tags, now that's fandom policing, not whatever the hell I was doing just ranting in my own blog and thinking to myself this is my safe space. two, playing the high horse card and saying it's all for the sake of "keeping the positivity in fandom" only creates an atmosphere of people walking on eggshells, of not being able to say what they want to say about the characters, as if somehow people aren't allowed to make mistakes, lest they too are dogpiled like I was.

how sensitive you are about these characters is no one else's problem but your own. I (and anyone else who doesn't agree with your headcanons) am not a damn babysitter, grow tf up.

[talesfromthecrypts]

why do i feel like a schism has occurred in the fandom? i usually clean my apartment on sundays and this dumb show has me drained, i can barely think of anything else. the lack of trigger warning on what happened and now i’m back in a bad place. why am i less worthy than suicidal people? i don’t get a warning? i don’t know how we come back from this. the lack of empathy from people i was friends with. the rationalizing, the i hated lestat already so it doesn’t matter, the radio silence on the rape is just astounding. the commitment to telling me i’m crazy. that even though i’m a long term fan who read all the books, it is I that “just doesn’t understand the toxicity” like babe. i was reading about the toxic vampires when you were 13 and wanking to iron man. i know these characters.

Oh yeah there is some absolute vile behavior going on from some people acting like everything in this episode was expected (it wasn't do not feel like you were wrong for not anticipating what happened cause... yikes). The need to be so "yeah I love dark stuff you are all just weak" is nasty and gross ESPECIALLY in the context of adding those specific two incidents to a story that did not have them. No warnings for two brand new scenes added for the show that don't seem to add anything but complications. Don't even get me started on the Claudia incident cause I am shaking mad about it (no one is addressing that in their shame posts though!) I know I seem mad about the dv but the added scene in the swamp really just pissed me off so much I can't talk about it.

Its ok to be upset, its alright to understand that writing things for shock value is bad. As a huge horror fan I am always advocating for limits and recognizing that just because you like dark writing in your stories doesn't mean you have to accept every terrible thing in the writing, especially when it adds nothing to the story.

I feel your frustration as a long term fan being told I'm somehow wrong for feeling this way. I have my dms open to everyone who needs it. I might be gone for the afternoon for my own sake but its totally fine to come to me if you need to bitch or vent or any other reason. Please take care of yourself no matter what that entails. <3

[aurorawest]

What's your top 5 Loki moments in the MCU? :)

Aka an impossible choice, haha. I’m trying to think of which scenes I like to go back and watch.

1. The Elevator Scene (Thor: Ragnarok)

Does any scene define and capture Loki as well as this scene? Last night I made a post about how my wife had observed that in my most recently completed fic, “Loki got what he wanted, and now he’s sad.” That’s Loki! That’s who he is. Satisfaction isn’t in his nature. Give him what he wants, and he’ll immediately realize he didn’t want that thing at all. And it’s just so beautifully done in this scene because we also get Thor realizing that he can’t give Loki what he wants, that he’s been so intent on saving Loki when really the only person who can save Loki is...Loki (I say this a lot so sorry for sounding like a broken record).

Tom Hiddleston’s acting is always fantastic but he does a particularly great job in this scene, too.

2. Loki’s death (Avengers: Infinity War)

I know, I know. I don’t like that Loki died. But I also think it was a very well done scene, and I do not think it was poorly written, or nonsensical, or whatever. The fandom likes to wank about this scene because they didn’t like that their fave died, and whatever. It’s a good scene.

I wrote a post about why I think Loki is one of the bravest characters in the MCU and tbh I’m not going to word anything better here than I did in that. I’ll just excerpt this part:

So all the Asgardians fall, leaving Thor, Heimdall, and Loki—and Loki is the last man standing. Thor and Heimdall are done; they’re terribly wounded. Loki tries one more gambit — “We have a Hulk.” And here’s the thing: he could have escaped here, too. He could have taken the Tesseract and run.

He doesn’t. He stays. He throws the Tesseract away and stays for his brother, whom he has let go of and pushed away so many times before. He stays and walks to his death, he faces someone who has done terrible things to him, and he tries to accomplish something by dying. He fails, but that doesn’t make him any less brave.

And I’m not even taking into account here his arc during Ragnarok, during which he also shows immense bravery. Loki has been through some shit, and he has a beautiful story about persevering.

3. The gladiator cell on Sakaar (Thor: Ragnarok)

I love that Loki reaches out to Thor here in the best way he knows how. This is actually a huge moment for him. Loki isn’t good at reaching out. You know what I just thought about that hasn’t ever occurred to me before? This scene echoes the moment in TDW where Thor comes to Loki in the dungeons. I think even their poses are pretty similar.

Anyway it’s a really good Brodinsons moment. It really captures the toxic dynamic they’ve got going on. “I’ve placed a large wager against you tomorrow. Don’t let me down,” is basically just, “You hurt my feelings and I hope you DIE, Thor!” in that way that siblings say stuff like that to each other.

4. Breaking out of Asgard (Thor: The Dark World)

It’s not that I don’t love TDW. I do. It’s a Thor movie. It has most of my favorite characters in it. But let’s be real. It’s not a good movie. It’s not a bad movie. But it has serious structural problems. And that makes the part where Loki, Thor, and Jane bust out of Asgard a shining light in the middle of this film. It’s so funny and so engaging. It’s the first time we see Loki and Thor really act like brothers together. It’s super relatable too if you have a sibling. I feel like the clear superiority of this entire section of the movie probably had a lot to do with the direction Ragnarok took their relationship.

Honestly Loki is at peak snarkiness throughout this entire sequence and I’m grinning thinking about it.

5. The Weapons Vault (Thor)

This is actually not a scene I go back and watch a lot, but I feel like it deserves a place on this list. Watching Loki’s entire world shatter and crumble at his feet while his dad thinks he’s saying the right things but is in fact saying the exact wrong things will never not be devastating. And that’s not a dig at Odin, btw—if I haven’t already outed myself as someone who doesn’t hate Odin, but finds him a complicated, interesting character who is actually not An Evil Abuser™, well, I am now. This scene is tragic because Odin is trying to reassure Loki with logic and facts, but that’s not what Loki needs. Honestly Loki really just needed a hug here. If Odin had just hugged him, probably most of the MCU could have been averted. Stephen and Wong could have actually got their sandwiches in IW if Odin had just given Loki a hug in Thor 1.

Honorable mention:

Loki and Stephen Strange’s meet cute (Thor: Ragnarok)

Haha just kidding!!! It’s not a meet cute. Unless...Marvel...? Feige...? You want to give Loki a sarcastic, magical boyfriend...?

Thank you so much for asking! 😄 

[luthienebonyx]

I did these recs for Day 8 of the Snowflake Challenge over on dreamwidth, so I thought I might as well post them here too.

Here are four Game of Thrones recs, all Jaime x Brienne, plus a Good Omens Aziraphale/Crowley fic to round things out. All My Days by PrettyThief aka @pretty--thief​ Fandom: Game of Thrones Pairing: Jaime/Brienne Author's summary: Jaime had always intended to marry Brienne when the Long Night was over. But there comes a day when they both realize how impossible a dream that is. Over the years their paths cross a handful of times, only to diverge again. Until they don't. This short one-shot is like a series of snapshots of Brienne and Jaime over the years, as life takes them on different paths. This story is suffused with a quiet but ceaseless sense of longing that I won't quite call bittersweet because… well, read it and see how it turns out. ;) Inside of you (inside of me) by @robotsdance​ Fandom: Game of Thrones Pairing: Jaime/Brienne Author's summary: The body switching doesn't stop. This is a follow-up to Though our paths diverge (I travel with you), which I recced here. Jaime and Brienne embarked on a sexual relationship at the end of that story. In this story, the body swapping continues, but now it occurs mostly in much more intimate circumstances. There is a lot of emotional development and emotional depth to this story, and the sex scenes build on each other as everything progresses. It is also about love and respect and consent. And as usual for robotsdance's fic, the style is intimate and very effective. Something I Need by HildegardtheB Fandom: Game of Thrones Main Pairing: Jaime/Brienne Past/temporary pairings: Jaime/Cersei, Brienne/Tormund Author's summary: Jaime finally breaks up with his toxic girlfriend -- for good this time -- maybe -- possibly not -- no one really knows. Brienne helps him through it yet again. This is a modern AU in which Jaime breaks up with his toxic girlfriend, Cersei, and winds up sharing a flat with his best friend, Brienne, who is currently in a not bad relationship with Tormund. Don't give up on it because of that opening premise, though. Give it some time to get going. It's worth persevering with the slow burn. I really love what a grown up love story this is. Jaime and Brienne are both people who’ve had experience of life and relationships, and who they both are makes perfect sense in light of their personal histories. The emotions feel messy and complicated and very real. I also really like the author's style. The POV works nice and smoothly, and then suddenly there'll be a vivid image that brings everything sharply into focus. The Unicorn Incident by sdwolfpup aka @ajoblotofjunk​ Fandom: Game of Thrones Pairing: Jaime/Brienne Author's summary: “You know finding an actual unicorn is...unlikely,” Brienne starts and there's that look again. “I know that better than most, Brienne,” she says tightly. “But I have a solid lead.” “You do?” “Yes.” Catelyn looks cagey all of a sudden, a look that Brienne very much does not like because she's already certain what, or rather who, the lead is and- “No,” Brienne says and Catelyn sighs as though every burden in the world is on her shoulders alone and Brienne respects the woman's grief, but. “No,” she says again. “Please, Brienne, hear me out.” “No,” Brienne repeats and realizes she sounds like some sort of very negative cuckoo clock but she doesn't care. “I am not going out into the wilderness with him.” * Catelyn needs a unicorn horn. Jaime knows where one is. Brienne is the only virgin she trusts to go with him. Time for a road trip! This long-ish one-shot is such fun. It is a modern AU with a twist, where there are certain "fable zones" in which magic and magical creatures may still be found. The world building is really well done, as are the characterisations and dialogue. The characterisations draw very much on Jaime and Brienne's vibe during their canon road trip, though it soon becomes clear that they've known each other for some time and have some history together. There's also a lot of - how can I put this? - wanking around the campfire at night, with two people trying and failing to be surreptitious. It all contributes to the tension that keeps building until… well, something finds them. This story could only ever be a fanfic, and I mean that in the best possible way. My Blue Heaven by Beth H aka bethbethbeth Fandom: Good Omens Main pairing: Aziraphale/Crowley Author's summary: Aziraphale and Crowley had both been surprisingly content since the Apocalypse-That-Wasn’t. Perhaps too content. This story is sweet and funny, with just enough tension to keep things moving along at a good pace. I love the dialogue. I could hear David Tennant and Michael Sheen all the way through. And the humour and pop culture and meta references kept me chuckling until I finally burst out laughing (at the mix tape with sixteen different versions of Never Gonna Give You Up, if you're wondering). 

[trilies]

Someone tried to come up with a “sfwrarepair week” for a fandom i’m in because they had problems with the mods of the actual rarepair week shutting down wank and being open to all rarepairs

but their interest post was, like. terrible.

and i had to write a super long response to it because it frustrated me so much, with the op clearly not caring about actual csa survivors despite ~wanting to help them~

but then the post disappeared from the main tag and i couldn’t reblog the post even from the op’s original site and so this has just been hanging around in a plurk paste i’ve had open for weeks now, so i figured i should just fling it out there because i’m not wasting that work lmao

This post (and if I’m honest, the base idea) is actually harmful to actual CSA survivors and I’d like to call attention to this, especially since the OP isn’t giving the impression that they’re interested in the words of an actual CSA survivor.

I’m going to go in order of the post to give my criticism.

1. “being a safespace for minors, csa victims, incest survivors, people of color, LGBT individuals, etc.”

If this were just about making people feel safe, then there would be zero need to judge or insult people outside the group as occurs repeatedly throughout this post - the focus would be on the people IN the group.

For that matter, you wouldn't make an open call for a group like this anyway because the people in it would all have different comfort levels, so you can't just go "oh all this content will be safe for you" - you don't even know what their needs are yet. How can you guarantee that?

“Safe” ships, even those defined by the OP, can still be written in a way that is triggering or problematic.

Triggers aren't just in what the relationship is, they can be in the subject matter or the theme or what happens in the fic and it's like...okay, how much are you screening for? How are you protecting your members beyond just screening what ships are allowed?

A group actually meant to help abuse survivors, people with triggers, etc would not just have a flat set of rules set out before it's even got members, it would be organically constructed with consideration to the people in it and what their specific needs are.

That is only speaking of CSA and incest survivors as well... because that’s all this post suggests. It offers nothing in terms of how it would explicitly help queer fans, or fans of color. What it does offer for CSA survivors? (The only one I would say I am qualified to speak of in terms of experience.) Only vague platitudes that, from my perspective, only apply to the ideal of CSA survivors. Not actual CSA survivors, like those who do ship things you don’t approve of because it helps them recover.

Which actually leads us to

2. “this means there would not be ANY pedophilic [...] ships”

First of all, as a CSA survivor: stop using “pedophilia” as a description for fictional ships. This dilutes both the actual meaning and the seriousness of the word, which in turn harms actual victims as that word is robbed from them. Use an actual definition.

Because that’s the second issue with this statement, in that there is no actual definition given. That is a problem in the current fandom climate because, along with diluting the seriousness of the word, the meaning now varies wildly from person to person.

By “pedophilic”, do you mean a ship featuring someone 18 or up with someone beneath that age? What about characters where it’s unclear, such as Xanxus, who was frozen at age 16 and one could argue that he’s still that age? Or that he’s not because anime? What about with a gimmick that features time travel, such as the canon instance of Hana liking TYL Lambo and not recognizing or liking him as 5 year old Lambo? Where do the Arcobaleno fit in any of this?

By “pedophilic”, do you mean any ships featuring characters that are under the age of 18? Is it only pedophilic if it’s an 18+ adult shipping them? How are you going to check for that? What about the canon time travel used as both a gimmick and an arc?

Other types who allege they’re against “pedophilic ships” have said that it’s any ship with a height difference, any age difference at all even if the characters are still both adults, if a character’s boobs are too small, if a character isn’t smart. And, yes, those are all things I’ve actually seen!

Or will you oblige anyone who claims a particular ship is pedophilic?

This vagueness is a problem. Admittedly, the vagueness was not started by you, but it was started by people who claimed the same intentions as you, OP, and if you’re going to make a claim that you want to help CSA survivors, then you need to be far more clear than this.

3. [the same thing but re: incest]

Admittedly, I’ve seen this as less of a problem with misusing incest, but that doesn’t mean I haven’t seen it at all. You may want to clarify that you mean explicit blood relations (for example, Bianchi and Gokudera) or... Well, I can’t recall anyone explicitly adopted, but the idea is the same there. None of the “they referred to each other as brothers, ignoring how that’s often used in a way that has nothing to do with incest, but so that makes it totally incest”.

4. “ otherwise harmful ships”

This is the largest red flag out of everything, and we’re not even past the first rule in the original post. This has a similar problem to everything else about this list of not-allowed ship, only it’s much worse because it’s target is arguably everything.

What do you mean by “harmful”, OP?

Do we judge “harmful” because of the characters, or because of the ship?

How will you regulate this incredibly harmful descriptor so that it isn’t misappropriated by bullies and harassers to silence fans, whether as them as a person or what they ship? Because I can guarantee you that I could come up with any completely bullshitted reason to hate on every single character or ship combination from KHR, and others easily could as well for malicious reasons.

This is a frankly terrible rule and, considering the kind of rampant bullying that comes from people who like to claim they’re against ““pedophilic”“ ships against CSA victims, I do not trust it. I do not trust it at all.

5. “this blog would NOT be in “competition” or in any kind of rivalry with the original khr rarepair week blog”

Now this is either an outright lie, or someone who has not considered their own words, and I could not tell you which is worse when it comes to a declaration of a “safe space” for minorities or people with trauma like CSA and incest survivors.

The entire original post ABSOLUTELY positions itself as competition to the actual khr rarepair week, not an alternative. Not only does it position itself as “competition”, but it tries to sell itself to people as the “better choice”.

It’s an attempt at a bit of sleight of hand. The post tries to show itself as friendly, just here to help people... But, as I stated before, if it really had an interest in helping people, it would focus on those people.

Instead, numerous times, you see the OP making judgment calls and negative comments to others - mainly implications of people participating in the actual khr rarepair week. There’s a series of connections throughout the entire post:

We start with “pedophilic ships” being banned to “help” CSA survivors in the first rule, and then leap from that to, in the second rule, “people who don’t feel comfortable in an event run by people who support pedo ships”.

(Reminder: still no idea on what ““pedo”“ ships even are by OP’s definition.)

So we’ve already started by associating the people participating in the regular khr rarepair week as the problem, instead of people simply not being comfortable with just the ships themselves - fictional things that are easily avoided.

Then, at the very end, the OP makes the explicit connection between ““pedo”“ ships and “freaks”.

So is the connection clear yet? The way they steadily escalate things until the implication at the very end? How that all does its best to frame KHR Rarepair Week as a negative? As something that Good People (tm) would never do unless they “must”? The implication that their “SFW” rarepair week is better?

So for the OP to claim they’re not trying to start anything, while their entire post ramps up the connection between khr rarepair week and Terrible Things (tm), is a... dubious claim at best.

The rest of the post isn’t that big a deal. It serves perfectly fine as a base interest check for half of it. However, the other half? That other half set off warning flags so intensely for me as a CSA survivor that I couldn’t stay quiet. I’m not saying this to be a “troll”, or to start trouble for no reason.

Additionally, that good half is tarnished by the problems of the bad half. If these are the red flags I feel they are, then that means if there are people in the group who harass others - I can already spot what-the-fuck-khr in there, a notable harasser who has called a CSA survivor a slur - then it weakens the promise to make this a truly safe space.

It’s simply that I’ve seen a lot of people claim they care about CSA survivors, a lot of fans who try to prop people like me up to signal their own virtue, only for them to turn around and lash out at CSA survivors like myself when we do not exist as only a prop, when we step a toe out of line.

If that happens again, then I don’t want anyone to be caught in that, especially some of the wonderful people I’m familiar with in the tags, such as [blank] or [blank]. I see a lot of red flags in there that I’ve seen harm other people when left unchecked.

If people want to give this a shot as run by the OP, that’s their right, and I wouldn’t take that away from them. I believe it is important to help and look after CSA survivors, especially us for one another. However, I feel like these criticisms are something anyone going for this should keep in mind, especially if they’re not CSA survivors.

Maybe I’m wrong about all of this. I will freely admit that the original post set me off something awful. Maybe some of my concerns are merely because this is an interest check post, and there wasn’t time for the OP to go indepth on just what they think “pedophilic” ships actually are, etc.

If that’s the case, then I’ll gladly have a discussion with the OP, if they truly care about CSA survivors and what is harmful to them. I’ll recant if I can be reassured this is all in good faith, and even support this endeavor.

However, as a CSA survivor, this post as it is worries and frustrates me.

[tonyglowheart]

@imaginaryelle replied to your post:*me sipping tea* (x)

I would really enjoy seeing more of your thoughts on this, if you ever want to share them.

:’) a lot of my thoughts are salty rants and I’m TGCF on main right now so uhhh not at the moment but if you wanna hmu on like a chat thing of some sort I probably will eventually rant about my dislike of The MXTX Antis and the Problematic Culture people and the purity culture wank :’)

actually you know what, since I’m a parody of myself and I’m like always mood of "and another thing,” I’m just going to. go for it ig

so my biggest thing, is with the MXTX antis/MDZS wank/MXTX wank. is like....god it FRUSTRATES me so fckn much lmfao in so many ways and on so many levels.  like listen. I’m not saying there isn’t stuff to critique in MDZS. But there’s people who are first off: critiquing the writing quality, when I’m like “there’s like a 90% chance you’re reading the EN translation, and probably from ExR, and honestly I know it’s not fandom etiquette to critique fan content bc we’re all doing this for free out of passion, BUT I do, in fact, have some major issues with ExR’s translation quality, and also I lowkey feel like they have a strong traditional yaoi bias and sometimes it leaks through in how they handle certain things.” Big mood of this twitter thread about how when you’re reading in TL you can’t be criticizing the writing bc you’re already reading it filtered and like. you gotta consider things like the TL’s own personal biases or takes, etc. Which I feel like some people don’t in their critique, or at least they don’t take the time to acknowledge it and instead start spinning off into more and more impassioned reactions to perceived slights or faults.

The other thing is like. I admit when I first read MDZS - which I did while simultaneously watching bc I was kind of using CQL as a vehicle to get into MDZS, I had the HARDEST time trying to read ExR’s translation when I was going into it cold many many many moods ago rip - I was also squicked out by the explicit scenes shown. It did remind me a lot of traditional yaoi tropes, and I wasn’t into it. HOWEVER I was also a psych major, and I want to point out that the T/N’s do read to me as having a strong yaoi bias, and also before ExR redid their site they had large “SERVING YAOI AND BL” banners on EVERY page lol. And I think that also primes people to see things a certain way. (I just. am :/ about ExR also bc like... their whole vibe as a “yaoi scanlator” and also I. can’t be sure the TL wasn’t 17 when they were tl’ing it lmfao,,  and they did the whole rant - which fine they apologized for, but I think sort of reflects on a general attitude still w/ the team - about how some other TL had bad quality or something, but their existing TL has a lot of clunky English phrasing and actually a lot of editing issues, too, I was creating myself a back-up copy from their site and like google docs was already catching a bunch of typos and tense issues and such :’) and that’s beyond clunky EN translation phrasing. I just am like. they have a patreon lol, so I can’t say ExR is doing it wholly not-for-profit/dollars, and also like... it’s not like they’re licensed? I get that within scanlation circles, there’s an etiquette of “first come first serve,” but with translation, I think fans are only served with more translations? but I also care about the original work lol, I mean I get the vanity of “I want MINE to be the AUTHORITATIVE tl” bc I feel that mood too, but also I’m like. fam you didn’t bid for a license lmao.)

But yeah like. My petty gripes with ExR aside lmfao, I think when you look at WangXian, the whole “it’s yaoi tropes” gets really strawman. Like from a Watsonian perspective, I mean like... both WWX and LWJ really ARE useless virgins, lol, WWX’s first kiss was stolen by LWJ and his whole idea of sex comes from porn; LWJ is GusuLan and like. yeah. Who is teaching them about lube? certainly not porn. (but this also gets into the whole. like people saying explicit material is “problematic” because it doesn’t show “realistic” sex and I’m like. fam it’s smut, not a sex manual.) And like... they’re both kinky and WWX has a pregnancy kink, and like... good for them I guess?

From a more Doylist perspective..... I think for me, I’m like. well why not? gay media doesn’t have to be uwu to be “Valid,” and like, the people who start attacking mxtx personally because of the way she chose to write WangXian, or saying she’s homophobic because of WangXian or she doesn’t have the range... I already Know they didn’t read TGCF or SV lol. (and yeah SV is more “problematic” but I also think it’s VERY genre aware and both satirizes and also plays with and subverts some of the typical genre “problematic” things. not everything, but like. again the whole idea that non-mainstream media needs to be held to a higher standard to not be cancelled? I don’t hold by that). [But more on the Doylist thing: it’s dumb to me that people react like it’s a moral failing of non-straight works if they don’t fit EXACTLY their personal idea of what a thing should be. And this comes up EVERY time there’s some new thing. hell it’s not even just lgbt-related stuff; Hamilton, Crazy Rich Asians, etc all had nitpicking. Which again, isn’t invalid! but also like. :/ because we DON’T have enough representation right now to pick, and my take is always: the solution is to get to the point where we can pick and choose and can afford to have bad media just like the straights/whites do :’)]

The thing about WWX and LWJ is neither of them, as they’re written in canon, fit within “traditional yaoi” seme/uke stereotypes. The kiss I see people rail against as “dubcon” and also their sex scenes but I’m like. yeah I think it’s fine to say it’s not your cup of tea but to say that that makes them traditional yaoi rapey tropes I’m like. Fam that’s not it lol. LWJ is shown as being SO incredibly responsive and attentive to WWX’s wishes and desires. I mean that’s examples of his passion exploding out, but we consistently see LWJ being respectful of WWX’s wishes and autonomy even when it like. fucks him/them over :’) like when WWX was so hell-bent on hurtling down the mo’dao route :’)

plus also WWX literally fantasizes about them retiring as farmers and he’s the one out working the fields and LWJ is staying at home weaving lol, like c’mon, ya wanna talk gender roles, let’s talk about this.

the other thing is the whole mxtx anti stuff about “she’s homophobic” and “she’s a filthy fujo” and I think there’s issues that people aren’t considering, which I don’t know as much about but I feel like it informs my consideration of mxtx - such as like... not everyone’s internet is as wide open as, like, the West. I don’t know so much about Chinese censorship other than it exists, but I’m like. I think this would affect people’s access to resources which would inform them about how things work/where people are with LGBT thought? It reminds me of when young tumblr kids trash talk older queer people for using terms they see as “problematic” now, and I’m like “you really gotta pause a moment of (1) have some empathy (2) consider the person’s individual personal and cultural context.” MDZS wasn’t made for a Western audience in mind lol, it’s not going to reflect Western values! And China has a different history with its LGBT progression and it’s m/m media, which I don’t know enough about to comment specifically, but I think it’s incredibly disingenuous to judge it based on Western standards. A lot of people probably don’t realize they are! in that it doesn’t even occur to them, which is why they feel so free with their judgment! But also I’m like. lowkey THAT’s a problem for me bc of like. cultural imperialism lmfao. and also reflective of EN-language imperialism, when people are judging EN tl’s they’re seeing on face value without realizing or considering that they’re...reading... a translation... and that translations are NOT in fact direct one-for-one and that there’s a LOT of considerations that go into both translating and reading a translation of a work.

I think the points antis pull up against MXTX is like... stuff she’s said before in interviews - and I don’t know from when, but I imagine years ago at this point - where she was asked about shipping the other characters in MDZS, and she said something I think about how to her, she wants to write in a way that “preserves realism” or maybe she believes in (I only read a TL of it, so I hold the exact phrasing with a grain of salt), and for her, not everyone is gay so she doesn’t write all of her named characters gay. and I’m like. whatever that’s her prerogative as the author. And I think there’s also something that I don’t know if it’s an official “rules”/”guidelines” she wrote bc again I’ve only seen secondhand/thirdhand sources, but it’s something mxtx-antis also quote, where she said to not break up the main couples and also don’t “reverse” them. but again when we’re getting into the shou/gong dynamics, that’s where I don’t feel comfortable commenting because I don’t know enough about the sociopolitical implications of these terms and how they interact within that fandom/community subset. But I do think people need to be taking the stuff they read - ESPECIALLY if they’re only reading it in EN - with a grain of salt. or like a big ol pinch of it. 

edit: I know more about this now lmao and I know exactly which question people use piecemeal of vilify her. Here’s a recent-ish translation someone did. Read it through - the WHOLE thing, and think about the wider context.

But also in general I just don’t think anyone is valid when we start getting into ad hominems lol. Especially when I feel like they’re not really taking a moment to consider what wider contexts and influences might be at play and instead are playing Tumblr telephone with outrage and virtue signalling

sidebar: I also fucking HATE CQL purists lmfao. I don’t feel like I’ve seen or encountered anyone saying CQL fans are less valid than novel fans except in the sense of CQL fans getting defensive about their dislike of the novel - which, whatever, people have opinions - or decision not to read the novel and saying anyone saying they HAVE to read the novel is gatekeeping - which I hold to less but mostly bc I think it’s a fundamental misunderstanding of fan language, some of us say you HAVE to read it not in a neckbeard way but in a I’m so desperately passionate and I want more people to know about this way, kind of like how the “I hate you” in fan language GENERALLY means “I love it so much and I can’t stand it”? - but I HAVE seen people say the novel “ruined” wangxian, or CQL people who seem to be like... purity-wanking, like idk if you were around but god after Infinity War and the number. of fckn ironstranges. posting in the tags. about “love how healthy our ship is” and I’m like. this is still anti culture/purity wank but the other side of the coin 8). I encounter sometimes this lowkey attitude of CQL (or other adaptations) “redeeming” MDZS from the author, and I’m like. y’all are wack lmfao. There’s people wiht MDZS or even TGCF main, and they hate mxtx? and they say shit like “mdzs was only good on accident”? and I’m like. can you just leave lmfao. if you hate her then why are you here. (bc they’ve mental gymnastics this into a virtue ethics thing about “o the work is good and therefore morally fine but the parts I don’t like are because mxtx is morally bad and unworthy and tainted it, and CQL with its Purity has Redeemed it” but I’m like. this is because of censorship lmao. The team did a FANTASTIC job working the character dynamics and story, but like it also is directly because of censorship.)  

like I... have more thoughts than this lmfao bc ofc I do, but anyway, here’s... some of them lol

[alyseofwonderland]

none of the actors hated sterek other than posey. and posey received so much hate because he's pretty much a piece of shit? hell, shelley only received hate because stalia was a fucked up ship that should have never happened? you're missing like, a lot of info man.

Do I know Tyler Posey personally and can I speak to his character? 

No. I don’t. I only have the evidence from social media and the knowledge that a young man who got his first big break was receiving hate at a young age. At his age I could barely handle being dissed over minor things, I cannot imagine what it would have been like to have your first really big important job turn into something where you were marginalized by your fan base to a large part and received fan mail. So until I met Tyle Posey and become friends with him and eat dinner at his house I will not speak to his character one way or another.

I think maybe the other actors had opinions but we didn’t see that as much due to the nature of the fandom and the actor’s own personal choices. But I know the amount of hate and wank occurring had to have bleed into the lives of the other actors. 

Stalia was not a healthy relationship in any aspect. That’s a factual statement. Should never have happened? Maybe. I am not on the writing team. Perhaps they were told they needed to bring in more female characters when Cora’s character had to be ditched because that actress got her own show. Maybe the writers had to take scripts and plots that had already been approved and change them in a short amount of time. It was not a healthy relationship and even the actors acknowledged that aspects of it were uncomfortable. 

I do know that Shelley got hate for just being a character that was in a relationship with Stiles and that’s not fair to her. Getting that kind of response to doing your job? That’s rough.

I will acknowledge that truthfully I do not have a complete timeline present in my previous post. I am missing minor events and larger ones that occurred around the same time. If someone can compile a more complete timeline of what occurred in Teen Wolf with all the necessary links, not just hearsay, I will be more than happy to share. 

[zmediaoutlet]

Thank you for the reply to that post and sorry if I made you feel like an asshole, that wasn't the aim at all! I'm glad we're good. As for hurt/comfort and catharsis... I mean, yes, I think that's exactly the function it serves. One of the things that I find super interesting about fan fic as a literary mode is the sort of unashamed emotional functionality of it? Things like the ability to search AO3 by tags, or blogs like SPN Storyfinders where you ask for a certain thing and people make (1/2)

suggestions, both of which permit you to narrow down to just exactly the right sort of fic that you’re looking for. That’s not to say that lots of fic isn’t acting in the same way as other literary modes or genres, like e.g. people might read and write horror fic for exactly the same reasons and in the same way that they’d interact with horror in the form of novels or TV, but there are also definitely areas of difference. (2/3)

For instance the porn content of fan fic is obviously higher than mainstream literature and I think there’s a really clear analogy between PWP and hurt/comfort in that they’re both about satisfying sort of iddy emotional-physical needs. (3/3 and sorry for the multi-asks, blame Tumblr!!)

The function of fanfiction is really interesting, you’re right. I think there’s probably a few schools of thought there, but if I had to run it down in a list-like format, I’d say that there’s a few different modes of creation happening:

1) Emotional/Id-fic, as you say–fic that’s looking to explore a very specific kind of emotion, for cathartic purposes both on the writer and readers’ parts.

2) Writing to write–and by that I mean, to explore character/tell a story as a thing in itself, absent the need for catharsis.

(There are probably lots more, but if we keep to very broad categories, that’s what occurs to me.)

On the first category, I think you’re absolutely right that PWP/porn and h/c and heavy angst and candyfloss-fluff all perform roughly the same function–they’re pinging some deep emotional/physical need. H/C is emotion-porn, as much as PWP is properly porn, or a long angst-fic is sadness porn. Now, personally, I think there’s nothing wrong with porn. Generally, porn is defined as something that lacks substance–but hell, who needs substance all the time. Not every meal can be whole-wheat bread and brussels sprouts; sometimes you need a taco and a chocolate bar. Sometimes you might just need a fic where Sam plays with puppies. Fair enough.

On the second category, I guess I’d call that a more–literary approach, for lack of a better term. As an example I’d use a fic by one of our classic authors in fandom: astolat’s SPN/HP crossover, Old Country. Just looking at the text, not knowing her mind while writing it, I’d call this a more ‘literary’ approach because it seems that the fic’s primary function is to explore an idea: what would it be, if Sam and Dean went to Hogwarts? Certainly there are what could be considered ‘cathartic’ moments in the vein of the first category–there is sex, and there’s a bit of dark!Sam, and Dean is saved from Hell. All things that take place in catharsis!fic, and yet it doesn’t feel like one of those.

The difference, I think, between the two types is how the writer (and reader) emotionally engage with the text. In type the first, the emotional goal is the main one. To get the reader (or writer) off, whether that be physically via a wank or emotionally via a cry or a squee or whatever. In the second, the more literary mode of writing is the goal–which, I’d say, is convincing the reader of the argument the text proposes, whether that’s a romance or a horror story or an adventure, or whatever.

This is really the place where fic diverges from traditional writing, I think. Fic tends to assume that the reader is already convinced. The tag says Wincest Hurt/Comfort, and so the reader enters with that mindset and doesn’t care about the realism of two brothers hooking up, or why they would, or why one would let the other baby him, or whatever–all of that is assumed by the tag. A traditionally published piece that featured homosexual incest, in which one brother has had a leg blown off and the other takes care of him (sexily), would have to put in a lot of work to make the reader first buy the conceit, and then build the argument that such a thing could work, and by painstaking logic force the reader to believe that Sam and Dean Winchester were in love. (Unless it were badly written, but that ought to go without saying.)

Personally, as a reader (and writer), most of the time I prefer the type the second. Maybe it’s the academic training that got beaten into my head, maybe it’s because I’m a snob–who knows. I enjoy the more complex, difficult characterizations and plots that tend to come with the ‘literary’ mode, as opposed to the sometimes more facile/simplistic characterizations that tend to come with catharsis!fic. (Note, I’m not saying that it’s simplistic all the time–it’s just a tendency.) I’m also not going to pretend like I only go for lit!fic–after watching Civil War, I definitely went on a round of reading all kinds of Tony-positive!fic, which often turned into Steve-negative!fic, just because I was so annoyed at how the characterization of Cap went. But I also wouldn’t ever say that those fics were good or canon-based, because the characterizations were so simplistic (Tony good! Steve mean!) as to be preposterous. Still–it gave a kind of catharsis.

The ‘problem’ with catharsis!fic, from a lit!fic point of view, is that in pursuing one emotional goal so steadily, all of the nuance tends to drop away. If as a Dean!girl I think that Sam was cruel to go to Stanford, then I might write a fic where Sam is a perfectly horrid shit as a teenager, and Poor Sainted Dean is basically abused and sidelined by him and still cries bitter tears when Sam walks out. If as a Sam!girl I think Dean was too harsh during the demon blood years, then I might write a fic where Dean was nothing but cruel during that whole time, and Poor Sainted Sam really never had a choice but to fall into Ruby’s embracing arms. And hell, I’m free to do either. But both of those ignore the nuance of both situations–it may have been cruel of Sam to leave, but he deserves his own life/Dean was harsh sometimes, but he also flat-out offered to help Sam with it any way he could–and by failing to take the characters’ multidimensionality into account, I’d say that they’re badly characterized, and I’m disappointed after reading them. Yet–someone who specifically craves the catharsis engendered by either of those situations would really enjoy those fics, and recommend them as good.

And so here, as always, we fall into the trap of what analyzing the characters means to the individual. Do we analyze clear-eyed and logically? How can we tell? If Dean is my favorite character, am I capable of seeing his flaws, and not reacting poorly when other characters engage with him in a negative way? Well, who’s to say. And who’s to say that it matters? If you’re engaging with fic in a purely emotional/cathartic way as a Dean!girl, then it may not matter to you that Sam is being demonized because your cathartic needs are being met. 

It’s really impossible to see, from the outside (and even from the inside), what the biases are, and whether they’re affecting the analysis/writing. And, therefore, it’s nearly impossible to self-identify: am I writing pure catharsis!fic? Am I writing ‘logical’ fic? Am I engaging with it as canon or as fanon? If we could clear up these sorts of things, we’d probably have a much less fractious time here on tumblr. (And, for me, I’d have a much easier time finding fic to read.)

So… there’s an essay, haha.