#theoretically there isn't a reason god would reject that

[mdhwrites]

Amphibia's Ending is SOOOO Much Better Than People Made Me Believe

So I remember back in S2 when I watched "A Day at the Aquarium" expecting to be upset about the finale like a lot of the people I'd followed were when the finale came out. After all, with them being so close, why would they choose to leave? Could they really justify them just dropping the stones and moving on from these bonds they made?

And... That's what the story wants right then. But it was an assumption built off of false impressions that I want to talk about because the ending is REALLY smart in making its points. But to talk about an ending, I feel like I should bring up its beginning. This isn't always necessary but Amphibia actually includes what is effectively a primordial sin. A first failing that causes everything to happen.

A scared girl who is told that change is coming and that she must give up those she is closest to finds out that with some magic, she can make it all go away.

NEVER is this portrayed as having been the right thing to do. NEVER is the show about justifying Marcy's decision. Instead, the show's entire purpose... Is about letting go. It's about how the experiences we keep from others are more important than keeping those people beside us. Otherwise, controlling people, forcing them to be like you, the goals of Sasha and the Core, would be painted as correct. Chances to be together forever, doing whatever they want and never having to change.

So it ending with the trio having to say goodbye to the connections they've made is kind of the only way it COULD have ended. First is the fact that neither Sasha or Marcy would have accepted Anne dying at the start of the series. Anne would never have been willing to take such responsibility or sacrifice. She wouldn't have been willing to embrace such a painful change, just like how early on in the series she rejected the frogs and their culture outright.

And here is where we get my first misconception. I thought Anne was straight up given her second life for her deeds or because she made a deal that she'd be willing to be god if allowed to live her life. This is as much on me as anyone else but can we talk about the brilliance of Anne's resurrection? She's only saved to become a god. Theoretically, turning down the position is choosing to die again. It doubles down on how Anne has accepted change, no matter how dire. She even has good reason because like the Core said "Full of heart but dumb as rocks." She's made PLENTY of mistakes in this season, even as we've gotten to enjoy what a resplendent person she's grown up as. The fact that she's willing to admit that is beautiful, especially for any coming of age story.

And it's a good argument. One full of the sort of wisdom a god needs. So this bored cat of a god likes it. Likes it enough that without giving Anne a choice decides to let her get some more training before coming back to work for him. It's keeping in line with the explanation that he gave for the stones. He was CURIOUS about what mortals would do with ultimate power and was disappointed for TEN. THOUSAND. YEARS.

And here we get misconception two which I think is much more on the fandom. No one DECIDES to put the stones away. No one decides to cut off the worlds from each other. Hell, on the human side of things, one could argue that it's not closed, they just need a better power source since the music box just uses, well, music. No, the stones are gone because someone more powerful than them is tired of their trouble and removed them.

And so we're right back where we began. Having to be told to say goodbye and that you don't have the time to do it how you might. Yes, they technically have a choice to stay but let's actually talk about if any of them actually have a reason to want to be there.

ALL of the newts have only ever used Marcy (even when Yunan and Olivia save her, it's explicitly because of her mind, not because it's the right thing to do) and it took until she was STABBED for any of them to actually care about her with even basic humanity. This is not her world. And yes, her parents will force her to leave things behind but A: At least they were honest with her! And B:... Running from that choice hurt so many people before. Why would she choose that now? Why would she choose to suddenly claim to have learned nothing and considered herself right to have stranded them all there by stranding herself now?

Sasha may have made great connections but the point for her character is to give up control and prestige. She could live in this land as a hero and general, leading how things will be shaped, potentially in her image even... And it doesn't even cross her mind. She probably knows she has a lot to set right back on Earth. Besides, you know, there's just the basic fact that being literally the only human here would be a bit of an existential problem. It would still would also mean running away from finishing the work she needs to put in to become a better friend and mend the rifts between her, Anne and Marcy (I'll get to the ten year gap, bear with me).

And finally Anne. She has her parents to go back to. She does still prefer life on Earth, even if she came to love Amphibia. Hell, the fact that she does clearly prefer Earth, as showcased in S3A, actually makes her sacrifice MORE impactful because she's not doing this just because it's her home. She's doing it because she cares and because of the connections she's made.

But just like she was with the core, she is brave enough to say goodbye. Just because someone isn't right next to you doesn't mean they've left you. Honestly, in an age of constant communication, I love that. A reminder that you can take your time. You don't have to talk every day, do things together constantly, etc. like that just because you can. You are still your own person with your own life but you can carry the support and love those people gave/give you even when you're not face to face.

And so rather than run from change, they admit it's painful, they cry, they celebrate, they joke... And then they're gone. There is literally no better ending for this story than that.

It even follows through with the epilogue. Marcy, Anne and Sasha were codependent. S3 actually reinforces a lot that their negative traits are still there, or have new ones related to each other, even as they've grown. Anne still can't say no to people she cares about like with Sprig's Birthday and Give a Frog a Cookie. She still can't entirely trust that Sasha isn't self serving like in Sasha's Angels. She has scars that will take time to heal and change, just like she pointed out to Marcy in New Wartwood.

Sasha though has a whole NEW heap of issues though. She's gone from being controlling to subservient. Anne says jump, she'd say off what. She is terrified of making the same mistakes twice. She is constantly trying to seek forgiveness. That is NOT a healthy place to be as a person and it's almost entirely wrapped up around Anne. Them deciding they were okay with just staying in touch, rather than being on top of each other... is actually great.

Marcy doesn't have as much to say but she moved... And she figured out how to handle the human realm like she did Amphibia: Alone. Who she was and how to be herself rather than relying on Sasha and Anne or needing them.

But was ten years necessary? I mean... Kind of actually. If Anne STARTS the series turning thirteen, she still has this school year and 5 more to finish for primary school. Then since at least two of them sought degrees, you have four more years where Sasha and Anne might not have even been in the same state, let alone the same town, and Marcy MOVED. She literally couldn't come back unless the fates decreed until she was 18 and she might have chosen to persue an artistic degree so there's another 4 years for her.

Then one year after college to settle in, get the money for trips, etc. like that and... Yeah, ten years sounds about right because life's a bitch. Almost like that's one of the lessons of Amphibia. But as it also says: Those bad times don't need to be only bad. You never know what will come back to find you and be better than it ever was.

So yeah, I'm definitely not just in the camp that the Amphibia ending is good but that it almost couldn't be improved. Small things, mostly pacing wise, maybe but thematically and how it does those beats? Not really. Not when this is so focused on one goal.

And I'll take dedication to your concept over giving the audience a simple, happily ever after ANY day.

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[blackphanto]

Does Hazbin have a deistic God?

Hi there! This is my first post on this platform and I would like to share a theory that I've had for quite a while now. I'm not a deistic myself, so if I got anything wrong feel free to correct me.

Now first and foremost, let me introduce you to the religion of deism: The belief in God based one reason rather than revelation, teachings or divine miracles. Deists believed that God created the universe and then left it so that it could evolve on its own. They were also convinced that the best form of worship was to do good for others, but the belief of an afterlife depends on person to person. Yet, they theoretically reject the belief in angels since they're seen as messengers for revelations. So in short; God is like a clockmaker analogy.

We don't know much about heaven, let alone God in the Hellaverse. Our first ever canon depiction of heaven was in Helluva Boss S1E4 and if you look closely in C.H.E.R.U.B.'s commercial, there's a poster which seems to be a quote from God.

This poster promotes the idea that God might be a muppet and that heaven encourages people to use each other for their own benefits. It also doesn't help proving my point, but I just wanted to bring our first ever mention of God up.

Now, in Hazbin Hotel we've seen a couple glances of heaven, mainly through the trading cards, but none of the promotion material we've got seems to acknowledge the presence of God. One could argue that "we haven't seen everything", though it is true that doesn't mean that we can't theorize?

The whole extermination, the function of C.H.E.R.U.B. all sounds so cruel that you can't possibly think that God ordered all of that? If Hell is overpopulated, then make heaven more approachable instead of causing a mass genocide in Hell and Sera, she is a seraph, right? Seraphim are angels who circulate the throne of God and praise him/her/them. Now, what if God isn't there anymore? Who will they praise or protect? And since they are the highest ranking angels, what if they simply took over of heaven.

Everything we've seen of Heaven so far promotes that idea that God isn't there and has abandoned EVERYTHING to let it evolve on its own, to let the denizens of Heaven take over and run it. And humanity and denizens of Hell are the ones paying the consequences of it.

[daisygrayce]

A bit more on Heavenly misunderstanding

I’ve already posted about this, but felt like I needed to come back and restate this, hopefully, a bit better.

Aziraphale and Crowley have a fundamental misunderstanding because they do not view Heaven in the same way. Obviously for Crowley, the Fall was transformational. Crowley sees Heaven and God as two separate entities; one unreachable and mysterious, the other drunk on power and lost in petty squabbles and corporate greed. Without that loss, Aziraphale has internalized the concept that God and Heaven are one and therefore the goals of one must be that of the other, theoretically “good”.

If I were doing a literary analysis, I would say that Crowley is representative of our personal relationship with God and spirituality. I’ve heard Hell described as an “absence from God” and for Crowley I believe that is true. Crowley’s trauma from the Fall is more about being rejected by God than being removed from Heaven and doing “good”. He has carved out a reasonably comfortable existence, but he is unable to create, satisfy his curiosity and help those in need. We see that when in crisis he still talks directly to God. In the Job minisode, we see him wistful for the opportunity to ask God a question, to talk to her.

Crowley sees Heaven for what it is, an artificial construct that separates God from the execution of the Plan, ineffable or not. Because of that distinction, Crowley views Heaven as toxic, uncaring and separate from God and “goodness.” He acknowledges the reality that in it’s pursuit of the Plan, Heaven is willing to perform any deed necessary to win. Crowley rejects being reinstated because he doesn’t need a corporate mistake to be fixed or even to be protected from Hell for doing good. He needs to be restored to communication with God and that’s beyond the power of Heaven and is beyond Aziraphale’s fundamental understanding until the end of Season 2.

I have a fundamental belief that Aziraphale is not the angel we believe him to be. I will write more about that later, but suffice it to say he experienced a heavenly trauma that has yet to be revealed, but has left him in the state that we see until the end of Season 2. He has been kept within the confines of the corporate-like structure of Heaven encouraged to bring about the Plan and believe in the ineffable power of “good”. From a literary standpoint, I'd say that Aziraphale represents our relationship with organized religion and society as a whole.

He is encouraged to follow his duties of doing good and thwarting evil, even when they bring him into direct conflict with the Plan and are doomed to failure. He has had the structure, policies and procedures reinforced to him. He struggles with the need for affirmation and approval and turns to the rules and authority for comfort and guidance when it is lacking from his superiors. He has been repeatedly told he is not enough.

He functions on faith. It’s mainly faith in the system. Aziraphale has faith in God and the ineffable Plan, whatever that may be, but he relies on the system. And for him, the system is Heaven and God working as one. "The Almighty" isn't as personal a concept for him. His first response to crisis or a lack of guidance isn’t to directly address God, even if he knows that she's ultimately running the show. He appeals to a higher authority within the Heaven’s structure.

In Season 1 he does try to reach God, but settles for the Metatron, an intercessor.

In every case, Aziraphale allows himself to believe that he is the one at fault, surely the system, Heaven, couldn’t be wrong. Sadly, I don't think that Aziraphale ever experiences a personal relationship, ever. I think that lack makes the ineffable plan an esoteric concept that he feels he should aspire to, even if he doesn't really get it, much like a corporate mission statement. He has been gas-lit and bullied, degraded and demeaned until his innate response is to believe that it’s him.

Aziraphale will never be able to understand how Crowley views God and heaven until he goes to heaven and sees the disconnect for himself. Not just see the disconnect, but see that he is powerless to make a change. He’s the little engine that could. Aziraphale needs to see that far greater than him cannot stop the power of Heaven. He has to see that Heaven is a machine that has corrupted goodness and possibly the will of God. Then he has the foundation to understand why.