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vidreview · 3 months ago

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VIDREV: "Plagiarism and You(Tube)" by Hbomberguy.

[originally posted december 7th 2023]

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i didn't initially plan to do a full VIDREV for this one. it's a long video that speaks plenty for itself, revealing a veritable cottage industry of video essayists who've found great success in brazenly stealing the works of marginalized creators. it's an infuriating watch, especially as someone who has put a lot of work over a lot of years into getting better as an essayist. at a moment when the gormless profit-chasing business degree havers of the world are pretty unambiguously winning in every avenue imaginable, it's gratifying to see someone like Hbomberguy use his significant platform to at least make a dent in that trend. i had a few gripes, sure, but i didn't figure they were worth the trouble. of course now it's been out for a few days, the video already has over 6.8 million views, and people are still talking about it on every single social media website of note. watching that discourse evolve from afar has sharpened some of the round edges on my aforementioned gripes, and given me reason to think that maybe weighing in isn't a totally fruitless endeavor. and besides, what's the point of having a video essay review blog if you're not gonna review what is arguably the video essay of the moment? ahhh, there's a Faustian bargain if ever i heard one.

in this post, i'm going to be critical of Hbomberguy's "Plagiarism and You(Tube)" on a few fronts of debatable importance. but first, i want to make it clear that i am genuinely grateful to Hbomb for putting so much time and effort into this investigation. plagiarism is a serious accusation that requires commensurate evidence, and Harris's got that covered in spades. the case is made so much harder to deny by the frequent juxtaposition of a plagiarist's voice-over with the original plagiarized text on screen reacting to minor trail-covering alterations. these sections occupy the bulk of this video's near 4 hour runtime, and while i have some issues with that length, i understand that the deluge of evidence is precisely to make sure that none of the plagiarists in question can continue dodging accusations the way they have done previously. in this process, Hbomb lays out a consistent playbook utilized by all manner of plagiarists, and (hypothetically) gives viewers the tools and awareness they need to better spot plagiarism in the future. this matters because, as he rightly points out, youtube isn't a fun little hobby site for posting silly cat videos anymore, there's real money to be made on the platform and virtually no oversight to protect creators with ethics and integrity (i wanted to pull a direct quote here but alas, you can't ctrl+f a video). it's an open question as to how or whether we can fix this problem, but we don't get to that conversation until we acknowledge that plagiarism is a legitimate, widespread, materially harmful phenomenon online. none of what i have to say in this review is meant to minimize its broad success in calling attention to a very real problem!

that said…

in the days since its release, i've seen a lot of back and forth over what this video is about. on one side you have folks calling for the blood of James Somerton and others mentioned in the essay, saying "fuck these people specifically." yet on another side, many insist that you're missing the point if all you see is more drama for the drama mill. "this is a systemic problem" they say, "that's what the video is about." i'm inclined to agree more with the latter than the former, as Hbomb does consistently circle back to talking about the unpaid victims of plagiarism, ending the video by explicitly highlighting underrated queer creators and even saying outright that he doesn't want the end result to be limited in scope to just retribution against these specific plagiarists.

and yet, when i see a meme like this one:

i can't help but think… is that what the video is about? is someone who just sees the drama missing the point? yes, certainly, Hbomb says as much, but how much does he actually say it compared to everything else? what's the proportion of (to be overly reductive) "drama content" to "systemic criticism"? because it seems to me that anyone who only/mostly gets "wow fuck these people in particular" out of this video has done nothing less than take the video in aggregate. the bulk of its runtime is spent detailing very specific acts of plagiarism, and while yes, as i said above, this abundance serves a very real purpose, it shouldn't go unacknowledged that the tone of these sections is often one of ridicule and mockery. i don't mean that as a criticism in and of itself, to be clear. you can draw a line from here directly backwards through all his "Measured Response" videos, dude cut his teeth on knocking overconfident hacks down a peg, a bit of ridicule and mockery is to be expected. but that does ultimately mean that Hbomb spends most of the video saying "fuck these people in particular," in a tone of voice he honed through many other videos devoted to saying "fuck this guy in particular", only occasionally stopping to add that "plagiarism is popular and insidious and even creators you trust might be doing it" before moving onto the next scornworthy particular guy. so it kind of doesn't matter that one is "the point" and the other is "missing the point" because he's genuinely saying both things, and he's saying one of them significantly more often than the other. you can't tell me the dunks aren't at least part of the point, and if they're part of it then they can and will be misconstrued by some as the whole point. the entertainment and spectacle of knocking these plagiarists down a peg is an indulgence that, while certainly earned, does exist in concrete tension with the systemic arguments that are meant to take priority. now, some of this does come down to how internet culture has shifted in the last decade to facilitate a much more aggressive style of engagement overall, which Harris cannot control no matter how often he says "don't harass the plagiarists." there isn't really a perfectly right way to go about this, and under the circumstances i do think he did far better than others might have done in his stead.

but even still, i think this misapprehension is made worse by the essay's conclusion, which in my opinion largely fails to tie the whole thing together into the systemic argument that supposedly is "the point" some viewers are missing. Harris commendably points out how the so-called AI revolution is at its core an act of automated civilization-scale plagiarism, and that future instances of plagiarism may be harder to catch precisely because of this technology. frankly i wish that perspective had taken up a solid 10% of the runtime rather than a couple paragraphs at the very end, seeing as on balance it's the far bigger and more likely threat to the livelihoods of people watching than old-school direct plagiarism, but that's me. what really bugged me was the brevity with which he discussed possible solutions to the problem. he rightly points out that youtube implementing a plagiarism reporting system would just be another tool for bad faith actors to silence marginalized creators on the platform, and then… he kinda gives up? he shrugs his shoulders and says, well, for now, just talking about plagiarism and spreading awareness of it is enough. for as well-intentioned and, generally speaking, true as that is, it bugs me as an essayist because i believe that a big part of the job is or ought to be expanding the audience's ability to imagine what's possible even if you aren't 100% sure about the answers yourself.

these are all very much "how i would have written it differently" criticisms, so they aren't particularly worth much, but i do feel it's odd that he doesn't even broach the subject of federal regulation, platform control, unionization efforts, or even just good old-fashioned consumer activism. virtually every website that the creative economy hangs on is a venture-capital backed corporate venture, and their ad-driven models for profiteering at a moment when wages are stagnant and layoffs are happening everywhere is, like, the reason this is such a problem. to address plagiarism as a systemic issue, we need to understand the systemic enablers of it as a behavior. if creators weren't getting such a small slice of the revenue pie, if we had more control over the platform and what rises to the top, if the companies that owned these platforms were beholden to federal regulations, if the government increased arts funding and gave out grants to independent creators that involved third-party quality checks, if online video creators had any manner of collective labor power, if the cost of living was lower by way of public healthcare, free education, mass public transit, and affordable housing, then this would be a drastically different conversation. these are not non-sequitors! this is as much an economic problem as it is a cultural one, so any proposed solution that stops at changing the culture is necessarily incomplete and doomed to fail.

look, i don't expect Hbomb to have the answers. nobody has the answers. but i think it's a bit short-sighted to leave so many possibilities unsaid when the one concrete possibility discussed is immediately (correctly) written off as a bad idea. it leads to a conclusion that feels iffy, a bit defeated, lost at sea, and that's an infectious mood. if the first step to solving plagiarism as a systemic problem is to encourage talking about it openly, i think it's equally important to at the very least gesture in the direction of the many possible avenues for a systemic solution, no matter how impossible or ridiculous they might seem in the current political climate. in point of fact, i think it's of utmost importance to include these possibilities precisely because they seem impossible, otherwise we will forever be trapped in a world of insufficient half measures, meekly reifying the conservative austerity of the liberal order because it's easier and safer than taking a wild shot in the dark.

again, i want to stress that this is a deeply subjective criticism. i'm an ornery Marxist, of course i have these kinds of gripes. and it's easy to get lost in criticizing what isn't there, which as an exercise generally tells you more about the critic than the object being criticized. so, to close out, i'm gonna shake my fist a little at something that is there.

there's a moment at about one hour thirty-five minutes in where Harris turns on some colored lights to get that patented blue-purple Bisexual Lighting, and then he says this:

This is a whole style of video now, and by "style" I mean one person did it first and then a bunch of boring people ripped her off. Stealing from lots of places is inspiration, but stealing from one place is plagiarism… unless you call it The BreadTube Style, and then it's fine. I don't even know what a BreadTube is, I just woke up one day and was told that I was in it, and that people hated me for being in it. I don't even know what it is!

i understand where this jab is coming from-- the whole BreadTube scene was a melodramatic nightmare, on account of being an audience-invented genre which that audience (and later creators who emerged from that audience) often inaccurately treated as a coherent movement. i understand the frustration expressed by a lot of creators in that first generation of left-ish essayists (Hbomb, Lindsay Ellis, Dan Olson, Contrapoints etc) with the atmosphere of that moment, and certainly don't begrudge them a desire to distance themselves from it and ridicule its shortcomings.

but this brief little jokey aside left a bad taste in my mouth. the creator he's talking about being "ripped off" here is obviously Contrapoints, who brought a colorful theatricality to her early work that elevated it above being something she shot for cheap in her apartment. this went hand in hand with her Socratic style of essaying, giving her characters a strange and vibrant world to occupy. i don't want to say she "did it first" because, let's be real, Natalie Wynn did not invent the idea of using dramatic lighting on the internet. but she was certainly the first person i saw on youtube doing it in video essays, and yeah, a lot of people followed her example including me!

but that's not the same thing as plagiarism, is it? this whole video is an extensive exploration of what genuinely counts as plagiarism: taking someone else's words and pretending that they're yours. style is almost never part of that conversation across the whole 4 hours, except where it involves use of prepackaged assets like transitions and stock footage, which Hbomb deliberately notes is fine and normal except when people act like they're the ones who invented it (this particularly comes up in the Legal Eagle section). by the terms of this joke, Abby Thorne of PhilosophyTube falls under the category of "boring people" who were "ripping off" Contrapoints even moreso than those who just lit videos like her, because she even does the Socratic-style dialogues! but somehow i don't think Harris would call that plagiarism. if the concern re: bisexual lighting in BreadTube is attribution, all i can say is that Natalie Wynn is one of the single most discussed and cited creators in the whole field. virtually everyone i can think of who "ripped her off" back in the day openly acknowledged being inspired by her at every possible opportunity. of course that's just my own biased recollection of the history, so who knows, maybe there are people out there acting like they did it first. but unlike most of the other victims of plagiarism provided in this video, Natalie Wynn is not wallowing in obscurity. her work is IMMENSELY successful, to the point where she's arguably the closest thing to a household name you can get from this space.

now, i'm sensitive to a joke like this because i always felt like if anything Natalie got too much credit for "inventing" the so-called "BreadTube style". her use of colored lights was striking and unique, yes, but it was also rudimentary and not particularly complicated. i worked in film lighting for enough years to see this "style" as equivalent to late 1910's era silent films blindly grasping at the bare fundamentals of montage that have become the backbone of all cinema. it's good, but it ain't Citizen Kane. i really hoped people would take Natalie's baseline not as a concrete template, but as a challenge to get even more ambitious and filmic with their lighting setups! instead things have stagnated, and we've kinda circled back around to a very slightly more colorful version of the standard pre-Contrapoints look. this is by no means to play down the work that Natalie did, because i know from my own years making video essays that it is NOT easy or simple to set up even rudimentary lighting that looks good. but come on man, have some perspective. she's a philosopher, not an electrician!

what's worse is that later on in the video, Hbomb talks about how many creators were inspired by AVGN to do twists on his formula, and why this was a good thing. near the end, when he's very rightly shouting out many underrated queer essayists, he spends a good chunk of time celebrating the spirit of remix that is so unique to the internet, insisting that there's a real tangible difference between plagiarism and inspiration. this is good! i agree with him! which is why it's so bizarre that there's this one aside that equates using bisexual lighting to plagiarism! it's a disarmingly hypocritical moment in an otherwise relatively on-point video, and its presence kind of weakens the rest of the essay for me (especially if you're sensitive to how near this comes to being all-out drama youtube, as clearly even Hbomb is by his own admission in the video).

the last i'll say is that i find it frustrating when a creator in Hbomb's position tries to act like BreadTube wasn't A Thing. no, it wasn't A Thing the way quite a lot of people thought it was (including many who called themselves BreadTubers). but these creators were often collaborating with each other to make guest appearances, read quotes, etc. certainly they mentioned each other often enough, which couldn't help solidifying in the audience's mind that there was indeed A Thing happening that involved multiple people with similar creative & political goals, regardless of whether or not that was the creators' intent. it wasn't formal, and it certainly wasn't A Movement (the lack of an articulated ideological spine is a BIG part of why things went sour the way they did), but they were happy enough to play along before Drama blew the whole endeavor to smithereens. and notably, successive generations of creators (like Sophie From Mars, Jack Saint, Lily Alexandre, CJ the X, and yes, also me again) saw the BreadTube genre as a place where interesting things were happening, where the kinds of things they/we wanted to create were encouraged and supported vociferously. it's no coincidence that a LOT of up-and-coming trans creators doing very BreadTube-y things got a huge boost from guesting on Hbomb's DK64 Nightmare Stream in 2019 (including me again, haha, oops), because there was A Thing happening even if most people were wrong about what, exactly, it was. none of this is to say that Hbomb should call himself a BreadTuber-- god no, i hope no one does that ever again, i'm embarrassed that i did back in the day! but this history does exist. mostly i just think this joke would've been better left on the cutting room floor.

okay, i think that's enough criticism for one day. one thought i had coming out of this is that i wish more video essays would publish concurrently with a written version on a dedicated website. not just a transcript but an article-format version. i wonder sometimes about the difficulty of indexing video essays, of getting their contents into a historical record that can be printed out and put into a library. but anyway, all my gripes aside, it's a good video and you should go watch it! preferably in chunks over a day or two!

#vidrev #video essay #video essay review #video recommendation #hbomberguy #plagiarism #youtube #breadtube #Youtube

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ripplestitchskein · 9 months ago

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I've been binge reading your Helluva Boss and Stolitz posts for a while now and I love how mature and nuanced your takes are. I've run into a good deal too many Stolitz antis on Twitter who won't give Stolas and Blitzo's relationship a chance to improve later, despite the show clearly trying to do just that. I'm especially tired of people saying that their relationship is one-sided. And even when actual evidence is put out there that Blitzo actually does like Stolas back, they say it doesn't count because those hints are less than 5 second long small details rather than being spoonfed to them. Just argued with one of them on Twitter like an hour ago and that's exactly what they said. And they accused ME of not paying attention because in their mind, Stolitz was built up from sexual assault, and they think Blitzo's line in Western Energy "He can get hurt?" is somehow out of character which confused the hell out of me, and they kept insisting that Blitzo had "zero interest" in Stolas no matter what.

Thank you so much!! I do try my best to be as rational and logical as possible so I’m glad it’s coming through, not to say I don’t have emotionally based reactions or bias but in my meta analysis I try to set my personal feelings about the text presented aside and just talk about what it could potentially mean based on recurring elements, themes, and deliberate choices made throughout not just in individual scenes.

LooLoo Land is a perfect example, there are some moments in that episode I heavily dislike (Blitzø shoving the dolls down his pants, the “as long as she washes it” convo, and Stolas being sexually inappropriate in front of his kid) so I do understand some of the criticism. It was also episode two and being a creative myself I know firsthand that things like that happen. You put in things early, for a joke, a laugh, to highlight personalities and they don’t necessarily come across the way you intended or jive with where the story ends up. Which is why a lot of my analysis takes in the entirety of what we have so far, the recurring stuff, not just individual moments or one off lines.

I’ve always maintained that it’s crucial to remember that creators are not perfect beings who are getting their story from on high fully formed, they make mistakes, they get inspired and take things in a different direction as things develop, they can contradict themselves over time. It happens.

It’s also a cartoon so it’s limited in how much it can even do, how expressive the characters can be, how much time they have to explore and the medium absolutely comes into play when analyzing it. Art has always been and will always be subjective, and unless the creator flat out contradicts something it’s largely left to interpretation, but that interpretation cannot be based on one scene, or one episode, or a one off bit of dialogue or a single expression either.

I always encourage not wasting your time arguing with people who are still serving up early content talking points or who dont have media literacy as a learned skilled. I know it’s super hard, I’m guilty of it myself. I was so close to going off on a “Stella and Stolas are mutually abusive” take last night you have no idea. It was more the dude was just being deliberately obtuse to the point I stopped myself and was like “they have to be trolling, no way someone believes this”. You can’t change their minds, they obviously don’t want to engage with the material from a place of good faith, and it just bums you out at the end of it.

A lot of them are really young too I find, which may be part of the disparity. I’m 38 so I have a lot of different experiences to draw from they haven’t had yet. I’ve been a fandom girl since I was a kid, I’ve always been a shipper and I also create things so my perspective is further down the line and with lived experience some people don’t have yet. I’m reminded of this daily, my oldest son is 18 and we have many conversations where I’m reminded about how much you learn as you grow older and the assumptions you make as a younger person. This is not to say that younger people can’t think critically but it is a skill and it improves over time like any other.

I also encourage people to think of what is being said and why. There is a lot of hate for VivziePop as a person. My understanding is she said some things early on and created a hate base that is going to deliberately misinterpret just to validate their initial assumptions about her motive and character. With popular things there is always a small subset that hate a show because of its popularity too, I don’t think because they are jealous like some speculate but because they didn’t personally enjoy it and don’t like feeling like they are missing something, so they take it in a “it must be the children who are wrong” Principal Skinner approach. They can’t see why people love it so those people must be ignoring what they didn’t like about it and they must tell them.

Sometimes people like another ship or another character more, and their ship might involve one half of yours, or they don’t feel their character is getting the same focus and attention because of yours. So instead of just letting everyone enjoy their own things it’s now a competition, a source of resentment and they must make that everyone else’s problem.

And I’ve talked about the fascistic purity culture that seems to encroach into fiction spaces as well that is also at heavily play. Any time a character does anything that is vaguely “toxic”, “problematic” they are immediately painted with the SA brush, the creator is promoting it and the fans are enabling it and are somehow directly responsible for it existing in the world. You can’t do anything about them except enjoy what you like, look at it critically within your own personal comfort level, and as always, my favorite thing to say “kill the cop in your head.” Not just with fiction but everything.

I’m glad my analysis is being enjoyed, and I super appreciate your feedback on it. Come to my inbox anytime and we’ll enjoy the ride together!

#inbox #stolas x blitz #stolitz #helluva boss #will I ever answer anything in less than 500 words?#not fucking likely

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danielleverboski76431 · 11 months ago

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joylinda-hawks · 2 years ago

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Some people constantly accuse us that we believe that ZZH is silent, does not take any action against the fraudster and all other people who make a fuss around him. That we think he's sitting like a frog in a well. Perversely, I will ask why he should not be silent. As for his person, after 8.13 we have two certain things: December 24, 2021 - filing a defamation report with the Beijing police and January 1, 2022, a recorded interrogation of ZZH transferred to LXZ. The rest, be it photos, voice recordings, videos - we cannot verify its authenticity. Modern technology allows for a lot, we see it almost every day, so there is nothing to discuss. As long as there are no official photos of ZZH from the court made available by the court, police, prosecutor's office, others can go to the bin. Texts about his return to the national musical entertainment after a long absence mislead people with full awareness of this act. Yes, the people who spread it are aware of it and want to do it. They cannot hide behind being misled. They cheated on purpose. Why is ZZH silent and, contrary to what some people want us to believe, it does not shine on foreign media platforms. It's simple, he's busy gathering evidence and getting ready with lawyers for a case where he's a victim. In his country, he is still called tra1tor. How many times can you say that this is a terrible stigma, especially if you are a citizen of a country with great historical sensitivity. Some citizens may have perceived the fraudster's behavior as ZZH's behavior as a slap in the face. How a certain tra1tor person can do nothing about it, shine in foreign media. Do you still think that it does not hurt ZZH, in which it puts it in front of its countrymen and authorities, before whom it will seek its justice. Such behavior - silence - was predictable in advance, ZZH himself said that he would come back and show his face when he cleared his name. He suddenly changed his mind, it didn't matter to him to clear his name, seriously? Learn a bit about the history, culture and society of the country of which CN is a citizen from reliable sources and consider how citizens treat a person named tra1tor. Maybe then you will understand how ZZH is proceeding. I believe he is safe, that his mother and LXZ and his lawyers have taken care of his safety. Now they tell him what to do and what not to do. They know that every careless move can be used against ZZH. Sometimes it is better to remain silent, let the opponents attack and collect additional evidence of crimes against ZZH. Maybe the little fish will be caught in the net, but when the process starts, the little fish will also pay. The CA/PA itself does not officially work unambiguously, it uses other people to later easily cut itself off from the actions of these people. He knows that he is at a loss, but uses every opportunity to delay the start of the ZZH process. CA/PA can't help much, but ZZH loses a lot on this action, every month when it can't work is a time of missed opportunities for it. But he does not give up, he fights for himself, for his mother and for many unknown people whose lives have been destroyed by CA/PA. ZZH does not want to get involved and react to the opponent's behavior - because why. He doesn't need unwarranted publicity now. He, his mom and lawyers know the truth. In the course of criminal proceedings, not all evidence is shown, you calmly wait for the opponent to provide this evidence himself on a platter. Here, to understand it, you need to understand the mentality of Chinese society, its rules, and as usual, I will repeat the history of this country. Only then can proper conclusions be drawn from certain facts and assumptions.

#zhang zhehan

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nurmiiii · 2 years ago

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Okey so I've struggled a little (a lot) with an essay that I had to present for high school as a literature contest. Every year there is a theme and we have to compose from it, the thing is that this year we have to write a text from this sentence: "and explained to them". This is the result. I don't know what to think to be honest. On the one hand I like it because it's quite different to anything I've written before but being so impersonal and superficial... I don't know. That's why I'd like you to give me your opinion of it.

If I'm honest I'm a bit nervous because I've always been very sceptical about letting people read what I write because I'm very critical and perfectionist about my work so I tend to compare it to other people's work and I never see it as good enough. I have mixed feelings between fear and the desire to publish something of mine. Since I found this application I have seen other people who have dared to publish their texts sharing a little piece of their mind and soul in them and this has given me the confidence to get here: the day when I will publish something of mine. Although it has its flaws, I think it can help me to begin to open up to other people's opinions. That's why I ask you to be totally honest with your opinions, I've decided to share it in order to improve and your opinions can help me a lot to improve :)

But well, I'll stop procrastinating and I'll put the text here :)

One last thing, the text is not originally in English so here I wrote a translation of it so it might have some grammar mistakes, sorry for that😅

In a hospital room, there were three people. The first sat behind a desk with the computer on, constantly displaying tests that make your blood run cold. She had her legs crossed, one on top of the other, and was moving one foot rapidly, in an attempt to expel all that she was feeling at that moment. Her heart was racing with each passing second and he felt a peculiar shiver run down her spine, she knew well that what she would say next to the people with whom she shared that room would change their lives.

On the other side of the white desk, like the rest of the room, sat the other two people. The man was sitting in the chair closest to the wall and was perfectly aware that something was wrong. He had been staring for some time at a foot that seemed to keep dancing under the table. Inevitably, he couldn't help but think the worst, no matter how hard he tried to shake off this bad feeling that seemed to be gaining weight on his shoulders as time passed by.

Next to him was a woman with whom he shared a ring on his ring finger. She, however, was too nervous about the silence that pervaded the room to notice the tiny detail of the foot. Although the room was completely silent, questions echoed in her ears at a deafening volume. Why doesn't she speak? Why is she constantly looking at his computer? What's going on? And so, at this very moment, the two people sitting next to each other came to the same conclusion without needing to speak.

It was then, when the posters that filled the cold, white walls of the room with pictures of babies, laughing mothers and fathers, seemed to drown them out. The dummy hanging on the white shelf behind the third person seemed to intensify its bright colours to scream for their attention.

As the young woman trying to hide behind her computer saw a tear fall down the cheek of the woman in front of her, she took one last look at the evidence that the child inside this woman was no longer alive. She took a deep breath, and explained to them.

Well that's it... What do you think??

#I'm pretty nervous tbh hahahaha #but whatever #thank you for taking your time reading it #:)

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geneeste · 2 years ago

Text

https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/10/us-publics-trust-in-scientists-reverts-to-pre-pandemic-levels/?comments=1&post=41332618

It’s wild how on the nose this comment is:

Comment text in image:

“I really wish reporters would do a better job on this topic. Republicans don't 'distrust science'. Republicans, as they are made up today, are primarily concerned they will fall out of the dominant culture (white christians) in the US and that other cultures will continue to get acknowledgement and respect in policy decisions. Understand that almost all policy decisions - and this is true pretty much everywhere - have a cultural element to them. France's headscarf ban isn't based on science, but on armchair sociology which is part of their culture. Same for tax rates which feel too high or low, but aren't based on some hard math economic model, and so on. 18 as an age of consent is a number pulled out of the air (should be higher for some people, maybe it could be lower for others), as is a 40 hour work week, 21 to drink, 65 to retire, etc. and what we consider 'good' or 'bad' are largely cultural. Eating dogs and horses is 'bad' but pigs are as smart as dogs.

Republicans don't distrust science. But because Republicans are losing the culture war pretty profoundly (I know recent court decisions would suggest otherwise, but the public is increasingly accepting of the things they think should be illegal) the thing they *really* fear is losing cultural authority - the ability to veto other cultures. They lost the ability to veto the LGBTQ community as Americans are increasingly accepting of gay and trans people. Black media increasingly stands alongside white media. Latino and asian media are making gains as well. Disability communities are also making headway. All of these other cultural groups are gaining influence in how the broader community see them, and as a result they get more of a seat at the policy table. To Republicans, all of these gains represent a loss of cultural veto power, which is why the overt racism and antisemitism are ramping up - they are pushing harder against a trend that isn't going their way. They say they are being replaced, but they aren't. They just have to survive a multicultural space like everyone else for the first time in 400 years. This is why they get pissed off when the green M&M isn't sexy any more - *they didn't get a say*. It's a bit of culture that changed which they didn't get a say in, and that's both terrifying and infuriating to them. They're *supposed* to have cultural authority.

Science is a difficult category in this environment because sometimes is favors your cultural instincts and sometimes it doesn't. But when your cultural foundation for lawmaking (white christian culture) is being eroded any scientific view that undermines your cultural instincts feels like a threat. But the real threat is when that scientific view arrives when you are out of power. See, there's nothing that prevented Trump from leaning into the science when Covid broke out, and Republicans would have lined up behind it, because it wasn't the science they opposed, but *who was setting the policy based on that science*. If Trump put his weight behind it, they'd be on board, because it preserves their authority by branding it as a Republican policy - and that really what they want. Because Fauci (not a Republican) was pushing against Trump, because Trump instinctually opposes vaccines and decided that Covid was bad for his polling, that's what made the science toxic to Republicans. Fauci and Democratic officials in states, and then Biden, setting the policies was what mattered. There was a hot minute there where Mike DeWine in Ohio was pulling in the right direction but Trump got in front of the whole thing.

This is also the dynamic behind the election denialism. They don't believe the election was stolen because of evidence. They believe the election was stolen because if it wasn't, than a loss by 7 million votes by the president that has fought harder for that white christian culture (I mean, opening fire on a Black Lives Matter protest in order to hold up a bible at a photo op is pretty fucking on the nose there) and presumably had that culture most strongly aligned behind him would be evidence that they have fallen into the minority permanently. If white christian culture was dominant numerically, they should have won that easily. It's the inability to accept their minority status that *requires* the election be stolen, because the alternative means that the whole game is up - 400 years of slavery and genocide and a civil war to preserve that cultural dominance is finally lost. Maybe just barely, but lost all the same.

My point is that Republicans aren't anti science, but science will be sacrificed as just another pawn in the culture war if that's what is required. If you aren't explaining *why* this is happening, then you are somewhat insinuating that it's the fault of the scientists and leaving the readers to wonder why some scientific views are embraced and others aren't, and the answer has nothing to do with science or scientists. It has everything to do with the messenger and what the science says about their message. I know that seems to over-politicize the topic, but you put 'partisan' in the headline, so you were willing to open the door, just not walk all the way through.”

#us politics #Republicans are cultural minorities now and it’s freaking them the fuck out

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hwanchaesong · 3 years ago

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Hi, hope you're doing well!! I wanted to request a yeosang imagine based on the song dancing with your ghost. Probably very very sad like the reader dies in some accident while driving to their date or something, just a sad fic from yeosangs pov. Thank you so much 💓

a/n: this request has got me in the feels 🤧 tysm for requesting and happy reading~ 💚

👤: ATEEZ Kang Yeosang

📼: Dancing With Your Ghost - Sasha Sloan

genre & warnings: angst, mentions of death, implication of suicide, trauma, depression, mental illness, and overall just dark and sad

word count: 1.0k

for anyone who wants to, don't be shy and send me asks based on Prompts Request Song Version. Thank you so much!

One step, two steps, and a twirl.

"I've prepared something for our anniversary." Yeosang mumbled from behind you, his hands wrapping themselves on your waist.

"Really?" a teasing smile formed on your lips while you fix the collar of your shirt, your head turning to face him so that you could put a kiss on his cheek.

The dim light has set the mood in the living room, the record player's noise echoes throughout the area as your and Yeosang's favorite song fills the background.

"Text me when you're out okay? I'll come and get y-"

Yeosang wasn't able to finish his sentence when you put a finger on his lips.

"Nope, stay here and rest, it's your day off."

You laughed when he pouted, finding him adorable.

Your hands reached over to cup his cheeks, leaning in to give him a sweet kiss.

"I promise I'll come home as soon as I can."

He still remembers the way your lips felt on his. The way your skin warms his icy one.

How could he forget when he lives in it?

The neverending spiral of love and admiration, and he's so sure that he'll end up marrying you someday.

Yeosang skips around, soles of his feet bouncing lightly on the hard floors, it doesn't matter to him, he can't feel anything, not when his insides are frozen solid and nothing can thaw it but you.

"Hey baby? Are we still on for tonight?" you asked him through the phone.

Giddiness taking over Yeosang's body at the thought of you coming home to him once more.

It happens everyday, but it doesn't make it any less important. He cherishes every moment of you in his life, even the smallest things because it is the evidence that you're alive and well, keeping the fire in his soul burning brightly.

"Of course we are! I can't wait to see you baby."

Even though you can't see it, he still lets out a smile, a sign that he thinks of you in every breath he takes.

"Me too, I l-"

Your loud shriek and screeching tires resonated through his phone's speaker, an ominous feeling creeping up on his guts, especially when a loud crash continuously rings in his ears.

"Y/N, baby, what happened?" he screams yet no one on the other line has heard the anxiouness behind it.

The phone call ended just like that, and so is his everything.

The song is already near its denouement, melodies getting slower and lyrics lesser than before.

Eyes closed and a small smile on the dancer's lips, hands positioned in front of him like he's swaying someone to the beat.

Yeosang showed up at the scene of the accident, and the only thing that he saw is a figure getting covered by a white cloth in a stretcher. He couldn't see the face, though he can clearly recognize that piece of red fabric anywhere.

That velvet silk that he bought for you on your birthday.

No. This can't be happening.

His knees are wobbly and hands clammy, yet he still did his best to walk closer, every step heavy, nerves shaking, not fully comprehending what is happening.

"Sir?" a policeman interjected his movements, "Are you perhaps related to Ms. L/N Y/N?"

"Uh," he looked down, not being able to answer swiftly, "yes, she's my girlfriend."

The man in front of him sighed, sorrow adorning his face as he bowed at Yeosang.

"I'm deeply sorry sir."

The song tones down, a chuckle escaping from Yeosang's lips as he lied down on the sofa, hands reaching for a frame on the table.

He remembers the trembles he felt when that policeman apologized. All questions swirling in his head.

Why is he acting like something bad happened?

What does he even mean?

He denied reality, even when the answers were dawned on him in the form of your pale, lifeless body on the stretcher.

He won't fucking accept it.

He was supposed to propose to you that day.

He was supposed to marry you next year, then you'll build a family, then you'll live happily ever after as an old couple, but that was scratched off in his bucketlist.

Yeosang kneeled down on the dirt, lips quivering and heart palpitating as he caressed your cold face.

"Darling? I'm here, please wake up, I'm here now."

No response.

"Baby, come on. Don't pull a sick prank on me like this."

Still no reply and he couldn't help but shake your stiff body, begging for you to open your eyes. He was causing a scene that the people in there had to hold him back.

Tears pouring out his eyes, cursing at the sky for stealing you away from him. Hating on every god out there, condemning them all to hell.

"What bullshit is this?! All I did was love and all of you, insolent shits had to take all of that?! Fucking thieves! Fuck you all, I hope you all live in darkness!"

He wished that, though it seems that he was living in it instead.

It was difficult to exist when all he sees is you. In the kitchen, bedroom, bathroom, your shadow is everywhere and who was he to ignore you?

People say that he's crazy for talking to the air, and he say fuck them because they know nothing.

They don't know what it feels to expect someone in your arms at the end of the day, only for you to have their remains for forever, not even having the moment to say a final goodbye.

They say that he'll love again, find someone new, but how can he do that when he finds it hard to trust in love again?

How can he do that when every year, every day, every minute, every second, all he thinks of is your relationship anniversary turned into your death anniversary.

How can he do that when his heart and soul still belongs to you?

Now he pretends that he's moved on, sleepless nights hypnotizing himself to get ready for tomorrow's all day and afternoon acting. Telling himself that he's alright even if his world is shattering wildly day by day.

"It's okay," he mumbled, fingers grazing your oh so beautiful smiling photo instilled inside a mirror and paper, "I'll be with you soon, my love."

Music on repeat and hours of dancing with a nebulous entity, Yeosang decided to rest together with the buried ring inside his pockets.

"Wait for me."

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dreamcrow · 2 years ago

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This is slightly more than 500 words but there was an Attempt;

Before she can say anything, though, he's already walking over, setting his stuff down lightly on the counter. Then, he reaches for a pocket—she thinks it's a pocket, anyway; his hand moves too quick to see exactly where—before producing a pristine, ice-blue, very new iPhone.

She is, suddenly, stupidly conscious of her ancient little dinged-up Moto. She definitely doesn't scoot it away behind the register, wtf. If Little Mx. Hipster-Possibly-Kidnapper has something to say about it, he can say it to her face.

But after just a few seconds rifling around in his messages—he only turns the phone around to her.

Most of the screen is taken up by a photo. A selfie, showing a tall punk-type boy—oh, definitely cute—standing behind a girl, teeny-tiny, who's gleefully taking the picture in front of what looks like a bathroom mirror. These two are definitely festival crowd; she knows the rennfaire type, she is the rennfaire type, she's pretty sure she's seen that exact green hair/deer makeup/fairycore combo in Phoenix last year. She realizes, with a pang: oh, no, these kids actually look kind of cool.

There's a message attached. The guy wants her to read it, evidently, scrolling down for her after letting the photo sink in. It immediately makes her feel roughly eight thousand years old; it's spelled so haphazardly, chock full of dumb fancy alternate characters that aren't even ~aesthetique.~ She half has to sound it out to make any sense of it.

There, your proof. Nari ſays to tell you ſhe's a Legende at babysittinge, actually, & also to ſtop worryinge; because we are fine, thou greate nuiſance (her wordes, not myne).

She ſends also this meſsage, that I'm pretty sure can't be put in letters, but whiche after manye obſcenities (also hers, honeſt) ſeems to ſound roughly like—

The messages continue on for some time like this—mildly irritated, definitely written by a teenager (seriously, who spells that badly on purpose?), way too personal for her to want to keep reading. But she has to admit: they don't seem entirely antagonistic.

Something still nags at her. Wanting first to protect the girl, and her weirdly familiar-looking kid chaperone. But...

Jasmine thinks back, suddenly, to when she was eighteen. To when she'd made it all the way to Bakersfield, sniffling and red-eyed and panicked but still, somehow, scraping together the bus fare, foolish gay heart stuck like a fishbone in her throat. Her mom had kept texting all through the night, no matter how hard Jasmine had ignored her, terrified at the imagined contents of all those unread messages.

She remembers, too, when her mom finally caught up to her. How good it had felt, when she'd finally let herself crumple into those strong brown arms.

Oh, she thinks. Oh, God dammit.

She takes a deep breath. "Alright," she huffs. More to herself than to him. "I—okay. Alright. Whatever. Say I believe you." She tries to make her voice stern, as if her decision hasn't already been made. "What makes you think they passed this way?"

(On an unrelated note: it is so nice to have text formatting options in asks now!)

ikr!! what a time to be alive 😂 and ooo, what a juicy snippet to start us off. and from a fic i never expected to become so fond of!

the entire premise of a sip from the devil's cup is "how can i make the stupidest concept imaginable (dread ancient ice jerkass unconsciously grooving to britney spears in a 7-eleven) actually kind of tender," so it gave me quite a lot of room to play with character and detail (two of my favorite things). the first of these, at least to me, is why does skrael have an iphone? well: the easy answer is that he can't get annoying texts from douxie without one, and my priorities are impeccable. 😂

the slightly more complicated answer is: phones are a really powerful signifier. of course he has an iphone, because he's not paying for it and these are the species of device most loudly touted as The Best. of course he has a blue one, because it's got to Match. (would bellroc have a red one? ah...) once he's had it for more than a few months, you bet your ass he's going to have a perfectly normal number of phone charms. he keeps it in hammerspace because that's where he keeps all of the little things he needs to hand, or at least all the things that don't fit on the little chatelaine i imagine him with; he's trying to pretend to be a normie in this obviously human store, but not, like, very hard, so even though the magic isn't ostentatious he definitely still uses just straight-up magic to bring it out. jasmine can't quite see it clearly for what it is because she doesn't quite realize, yet, that such magic exists, let alone right under her nose. ╮ (. ❛ ᴗ ❛.) ╭

a lot of the fun i had writing jasmine, tbh, comes from being on the cusp of—but not yet slipping over into—that realization. it's very close to the fun i have writing barbara, tbh. she's—i actually had a lot of trouble trying to hold myself back from inventing jasmine's backstory, as you can see from the bit about her being a gay teen runaway! this aspect of her in particular resonates very strongly i think with some advice you gave me once about foils and complements. but again, also: so, so much of what i love about characters like this is looking at how reasonable, average people react to…decidedly un-average circumstances! even before jasmine catches True Sight in the mirror, she can tell something is up. but even if the guy is weird…she can tell, too, he's trying not to cause too much trouble. and then the incomprehensible ancient divine/monster meets the everyman modern mundane/human in the middle and alchemy happens.

…or something like that, anyway. 😂 there's also a lot to be said about humanizing the divine/monster in this—of course jasmine feels how he misses nari, how soft he is about bellroc, all of that after he unequivocally burnt down the apple store, god—but also about making the mundane exceptional? jasmine knows she's taking a risk by helping this stranger. she works among The Public, in a very specific field! but at the same time, she remembers what it was to have run from her own family. while she knows it's not the same for everyone who does so—i think i did a decent job showing her hesitation, here—she chooses to believe the best of this very strange and frankly offputting person she's never met before. one of my absolute favorite brands.

(there's probably a whole separate commentary track for whatever's happening with douxie and nari here, but unless someone's curious, i'll just say: i had a TOTALLY NORMAL amount of fun figuring out where all those long esses should go. 😏)

#ask games #wip tag #long post #ever since eva said she wanted to see jasmine meet the reunited order... no promises but i have not known peace #i've also not known peace ever since i realized quite how fanon divergent my douxie and nari are #but that's in a much more >:) way

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davincsoo · 3 years ago

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Thank you for giving us this safe space to share our opinions. <3

As an abuse survivor and as someone who was at the hands of a narcissistic abuser most of their life, I cannot tell you how much it pisses me off and horrifies me seeing all of those who support and believe AH, to the point where they go attacking others on SM. Watching her testimony this week was no doubt triggering for myself and many other survivors. She used a lot of the same tactics that many of our abusers have and we see it plain as day. Listening to the recordings, within seconds it's easy to pick up on who the real abuser is. I'm not making excuses for things JD said, in text form or otherwise, but holy crap, how do people not see what's right in front of them?

I try to be patient and understanding, thinking that most have not had the experiences that others and I have had and on one hand I'm grateful for it. No one ever wishes that kind of treatment and abuse on another living human being, no matter the circumstances. Especially those such as myself that have dealt with that kind of treatment and abuse. But I just cannot fathom how most of these people (the young girls and women especially) don't see AH exactly for what she is. We now have evidence that was entered into court as official documents, photos, audio recordings, and videos to prove it! Like, what do they tell themselves when hearing AH taunt JD for leaving the room during a fight? Which I don't think it should take more than 1 brain cell to deduce this but if someone is leaving the room and putting distance in a fight, THEY are NOT the ones trying to keep it going.

The narcissistic abuse I dealt with very much went like this: they follow you from room to room and don't give you a moment's rest or pause because it's a psychological attack - they can't give you that moment to think because then there's a minute chance you can't be controlled. They will talk you in circles during an argument so you can't keep your thoughts straight, and they will shoot down any valid points you try to make. They will belittle you, make fun of any type of feelings you may have, and continue to taunt you. Their goal is to strip you of what makes you you, any individuality you might have, any thoughts or feelings that don't coincide with what they want you to be. They want you to be exactly what they want: easily controlled, a convenient scapegoat, and someone to heap abuse on and for them to take out their anger and frustrations on. Someone who they can do that to that will keep that secret silent (usually due to the NV's shame that the NA has manipulated them into feeling), allow them (and I use the term allow loosely, that's more the NA's perspective) to continue to do what they want to them when they want to, and won't leave. NA's are very aware of who they can attempt to do this with and who they can't. They're master manipulators and absolute puppet masters. And that doesn't even begin to delve into the physical abuse that can sometimes occur or coincide with NA.

So when AH is heard taunting JD on the audio recording, telling him to go ahead and tell the world that he's a DV victim and no one will believe him, that is not only taunting but CLASSIC GASLIGHTING. Gaslighting is a common practice for NA's and psychological abuse. When AH tells JD he's not a man for refusing to stay in the room during a fight, for fleeing when things get physical, that's gaslighting. When she mocks him with 'which of your 15 houses are you going to run to this time?' that's gaslighting.

Watching AH on the stand this week sickened me but it also sickened a lot of others, especially those of us who have dealt with this type of abuser before. Because it's very clear that it's all a performance. Certain points of her narrative are not adding up. She's constantly playing to her audience: the jury, the cameras, and the people watching in court. She's had to be cut off from her own lawyers twice (as far as I know) from delving too deeply into any nonsensical details, even before JD's lawyer's objections. You don't smile and laugh when thinking back to the good times with your abuser. Because the good times are always ultimately overshadowed by the bad times. Who that person (the abuser) in the good times, you eventually come to find out, is not the real person. The real person is the one you've seen in the bad times. So the person you might want to romanticize in those good times, the person who you several times in the past have told yourself 'they didn't mean it' or 'they're sorry, they won't do it again' or 'they just had a bad day', they really don't exist. Especially in this particular type of abusive situation with this type of narcissistic individual. Because from the moment she met JD, the moment she met her ex and others, it's all been one big calculation and one big form of 'grooming' if you will. That's how they operate. But to go back to my point, it's all a performance.

So for those of us that have been through what is becoming glaringly obvious that JD has with AH, those recordings and that testimony were a dead giveaway. But I also kind of feel that things have become so blatantly obvious with all of the evidence that has been presented, that you don't need to have had experience with this type of situation before to see what all of this really is. And just who is the abuser vs who is the survivor of said abuse. It's literally the 2 + 2 = 4 type of obvious.

To those who stand with AH and attack others in her name, you're literally perpetuating her abusive tactics and you need to stop. Taunting, gaslighting, and telling people to kill themselves is not only disgusting but also using AH's own behaviors that are toxic, abusive, and overall horrific.

While yes we need to believe victims when they come forward with their stories, we also need to realize that 1) men can be abuse victims too (and women can be also be abusers) & 2) there are some vile people out there that will hijack movements (like the #MeToo movement) for their own agenda and personal gain, and not feel one ounce of guilt or remorse or shame for doing so. Survivors don't need to have documented evidence to be believed and heard, but when there is evidence in a specific case and all of it is pointing to one particular individual as the abuser, we need to utilize our brains and critical thinking and question what it is we think we know, what we believe. Especially when other abuse survivors are coming through and saying 'this absolutely sounds familiar and I've gone through this, too' and it's not in vindication of AH's side of the story but is the exact opposite.

Men can be abused. Women can do the abusing. Think of how many times we have heard of cases of abusive mothers, for example. Or women abusing other women. Or women abusing their siblings or employees. Just because the victim may be a man doesn't change the capability of women enacting abuse. Even if the man was 7 ft tall and 300 lbs, was a professional MMA fighter, that doesn't automatically exclude the idea of a man potentially being a DV survivor. As is proven in this case, women can use more than their fists or feet to physically abuse. And as also has been stated in this case, by the very clearly biased Dr. Hughes herself, there are many different forms of abuse that can occur in an intimate relationship (and other relationships).

Men can be abused, too. It's time we lend an ear to their voices and let their stories be told, just as much as we do women's. Abuse is not exclusive to gender. Rape and SA is not exclusive to gender. We need to put those old beliefs to rest and to stand in solidarity with all survivors.

Sorry for the long ask but thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts. <3

#dw about the long ask anon #and you are most welcome for having a safe space to share your opinion #amber heard #tw abuse #johnny depp #anon asks #anon replies

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serowotonin · 4 years ago

Text

LiPS𝐓1CK St4𝐈NS ! (💋)

❝ having lipstick and giving him a kiss and he doesn't realize he has it on his face until his teammates are all like 0-0 ❞ — @/luna-in-luv

++ fem!reader x oikawa, kuroo

| wc. 1.3k

| note. djslsdf it took so long to edit this post T-T,,,,, when ur indecisive af and can’t decide on a post format :D anyways just wanna say reblogs are greatly appreciated and i hope u guys like this<3

( ➷ ); ― OiK4WA

another day of school, another day of.. well, another day of boredom

you had to admit though, school had become a lot more fun since you and oikawa got together;)

altho you were in different classes, you’d still pass each other in hallways and see each other during breaks

and ofc every interaction, no matter how small, definitely made your day brighter

the smaller interactions consisted mainly of random head pats as he walks pass by, or a smirk and a wink whenever you two make eye contact

when there weren’t as many people around,,, maybe a hug or a kiss if either of you felt like it

and very rarely..

a makeout session in an empty classroom or staircase

its rare but it does happen

and it was happening… right now

school ended about half an hour ago and everyone either left or went to do their club activities

which was what oikawa should probably be doing too,, but today he just “felt like going in a little later”

and so there you two were, in the dark corner of an abandoned classroom grasping at the other as if you haven’t seen them in years

idk how to describe a steamy makeout sesh okkk

anyways,, after about 6 ignored calls from iwaizumi tho.. you two figured it was probably time for him to go to practice

you two straightened yourselves out; cleared the ruffles from your uniforms, tidied your hair, etc.

oikawa texted iwa that he was on his way while you touched up your makeup

“you gonna walk me to practice?”

“of course,” you smiled. “altho i have my own club activities today too so i can’t stay and watch :( ”

“dont worry babe,,, just walking me there is enough” he replied with a grin

then he slung an arm over your shoulder and the two of you walked out of the classroom as if nothing happened

as you neared the entrance of the gym, you slowed to a stop and tugged at oikawa’s shirt

he turned and you leaned to give him a kiss on the cheek

“good luck with practice” you said before giving him a small wave and walking off

did you see the dark mark your lipstick left on his cheek?

yes.

were you going to say anything about it?

well,,,, you already turned to walk away and oikawa was already entering the gym

so no.

anyways,, as oikawa entered the gym, the first thing he saw was his beloved iwa-chan

looking not very happy

oikawa waved sheepishly as he turned his head to the side to look at where everyone else was

this for some reason made iwaizumi look even more not happy

makki and mattsun then walked over and snickered upon seeing oikawa

“ah was y/n here? why didn’t you invite her to watch hmm?~” makki teased

“she’s got club activities too you know..”

smh

they probably realize oikawa doesnt know bout the kiss mark

the three of them were just staring at oikawa like (￢_￢;)

and oikawa's just standing there like (◕‿◕)?

“can we go practice now..?”

iwa: (￣︿￣) “wipe that stupid mark off your cheek”

huh? mark? he was pretty sure he wiped off any evidence from ahem what was happening earlier…

at this point some of the younger members started staring at them

and oikawa spotted them out of the corner of his eye and could practically feel the awkwardness in their gazes

he put a hand on the cheek everyone was staring at and removed it to see the same color that painted your lips

oh...

a slow smile spread on his lips at the realization of what you did

he laughed to himself

‘she’s gonna be the death of me..’

and with that he wiped off the remnants of your lipstick and hurried over to start practice

later tho, he asks you to kiss him again wearing that lipstick

and you do

and he snaps a selfie,,, which is now his phone wallpaper ;3

( ❣︎ ); ― KUR0O

today, you’re boyfriend, the one and only Kuroo Tetsurou, had a volleyball match

and ofc being the amazing, supportive gf you were, you were present in the stands, cheering him on

you didn’t get to meet or even talk to him before the match started, save for a few quick texts

so when he came on to the court for warm up and spotted you in the crowd,,,

he gave a cheeky wink and wave

you could practically feel the confidence roll off him in waves but you knew, deep down, he was the tiniest bit nervous too

afterall, the opponents weren’t a weak team by any standard

they were strong and known for their relentless attacks

which were put to display almost immediately after the game started

nekoma held on though, and managed to put in a few attacks of their own to level the game

you could see the hard work behind each of the members’ skills, having witnessed a lot of it yourself

it was most clear in kuroo tho

and as he jumped to block another spike, you were on the edge of your seat

the boys just needed one more point… which came when kuroo shut down the last spike

you and the rest of the people in the stands around you erupted into cheers

and as they were leaving the court, you ran to steal kuroo away for a more personal cheer

the two of you walked the halls of the stadium talking abt the game

you were gushing about this block and that and he was smiling at your gushing cuz damn was his y/n cute

N E WAYSSS,,, he received a text from kenma saying that they were all waiting for him at the bus

“i should go.. don’t wanna keep them waiting long”

“yeah.. you should”

before he could move tho, you tiptoed and placed a big fat kiss on his cheek

you swear you saw a blush on those cheeks as you backed down

he grinned and gave you a kiss of his own on your forehead before saying bye and running off

as he did, you realized you forgot to mention the lip-shaped mark on his cheek

oops… its too late now ┐(︶▽︶)┌

anyway,, kuroo arrives all smiles to where the team are waiting

and make no mistake they all CLEARLY see evidence of ur “little” kiss from back there

they just kinda,,,, don’t say anything at first?

kenma rolled his eyes and went back to doing whatever on his phone

yaku glared at it out of spite or some similar emotion

the others just choose to ignore mainly cuz they assume kuroo already knows and chose to keep it there

to them its just kuroo being a cheesy mf who was rubbing the non-single life in their faces or smth

ofc he has no idea tho

which just makes it all the more better when lev says

“y/n has nice lipstick”

and kuroo’s just like wtf ?? whatcha goin on bout my gf’s lipstick hUH

and he says that.. or something similar at least

and lev just points to his cheek like

“duhh i can see it right there”

he grabs his phone, opens the front facing camera, and is met with the outline of your lips on his cheek

and thats when he obviously started blushing

but then he just kind of smirked once he realized you knew about the mark

when yaku sees the smirk he went “OMFG JUST WIPE IT OFF ALREADY !! WE GET IT !! YOU ARENT SINGLE YOU GET KISSES STFU”

not like that but practically exactly what he was trying to say anyway

tbh kuroo’s a little reluctant to rub it off cuz idk,, he likes it ??

but he does anyway cuz they were still in public and there were teachers who were gonna come soon and all the other reasons

once hes comfortably seated in the bus tho, with a clean cheek, he sends u several texts

‘ saw that gift you left on my cheek… ’

‘ wouldn’t mind if u gave me more tmr afterschool ;) ’

| taglist. @lilikags @luna-in-luv ... send an ask if u wanna be added !!~

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satingrove · 4 years ago

Text

the hours

pairing: obi-wan kenobi x reader

summary: obi-wan pays you a visit before leaving for kamino

content: uhh SOFTNESS, fluff, a cute obi-wan and youngling moment, steamy meditation, more fluff, aotc obi rights, no gender specification

wc: 3.136k :’)

Lost a planet, Master Obi-Wan has. How embarrassing... How embarrassing.

He had one important trip to make before seeking out said planet.

Obi-Wan nods to those who pass him by, walking briskly through the Temple with his hands clasped in front of him, thinking on Yoda's other (more helpful) words, go to the center of gravity's pull and find your planet, you will. It would still be a while before he did so.

He nears an opening of transparisteel, scratching his beard and peering out of it - as if Kamino would appear in the sky, knowing it was sought after. But it's not there, as expected.

Sighing, Obi-Wan closes his eyes, focusing on the surrounding energy, the swirls of air and the sound of quiet walking, trying to single out a presence by the trace of a Force Signature. He gets just a whisper of it when his attention is broken by two small hands tugging at his cloak.

"Obi-Wan!"

Katooni, a youngling Tholothian, starts to wrap her short arms around Obi's leg, who chuckles in return. His hand comes to rest on her head.

"Little one, are you supposed to be in the library with the others?" Obi-Wan doesn't take an accusatory tone - it's laced with amusement at the youngling petting at his calf.

Katooni turns shy, hiding her face and slowly trying to inch away. The taller of the two crouches, his cloak pooling generously around him at the floor. Obi-Wan meets her at eye level, ensuring her comfort.

"I'm not here to get you into trouble, Katooni. Is that where you're supposed to be?" He displays clear and attentive empathy, though not without a trace of austerity.

Slowly, delayed by gentle shame, the Tholothian's head nods up and down.

"I was just taking a walk for a break, Master Kenobi."

He smiles, rising to stand and extending his pinkie to her, "Then I suppose I'll accompany you back, young one?"

She takes it with a soothed giggle, and he realizes the words that stuck with him from so many months ago, ones you had uttered, were perhaps true - he was indeed favoured among the young ones of the Temple, and it's more evident now than it had been before - Katooni isn't fretting about going back to the library to read up on ancient texts; she's content holding his pinkie with her whole hand, skipping twice to each step he takes.

And Obi-Wan supposes that it isn't a bad thing; to be admired in such ways, yet he does worry about the influence he gives. Was it respectable enough? He never thought he'd earned the right to be idolized. Then again, the child grasping his finger does warm his heart.

The fretting about rightful heroism is soon behind him, what with the more pressing matters on his hands - a voyage to a (seemingly) non-existent planet, and before that, a visit to his dearest.

Obi-Wan crouches before Katooni a second time, just shy of the library.

"I need you to tell me something very important before you go," he sets up his question in an enthusiastic whisper - a secret from everyone else in the Temple. Lightheartedly, he pokes her shoulder, "Have you seen my friend?"

"Oh, I have!" Katooni starts, excited that she had an answer, "I last saw them heading that way, before-" and then she stops, ears starting to burn with the heat of embarrassment. But it's all Obi-Wan needs to know. You'll be in your quarters.

"Ah, before you ran into me and tugged my poor cloak?" His right eyebrow raises.

"Mhm!" She chortles, almost proud of herself. Obi-Wan gives her the warmest of smiles.

"It would be best to stay in there this time." He motions to the library, softly stern, "Although, I'm not exactly sure how you escaped in the first place." Winking, a final gesture to let her know that he's not mad, he makes to cross the hallway.

Obi-Wan hardly turns the corner before Katooni yells her sweetest "thank you!" to him, scurrying back into the vastness of history books. As he weaves his way through those high-ceiling corridors, he ponders the affection he's always given. Had the little ones seen him as a father figure? He wasn't even positive what that was supposed to mean - although, Qui-Gon was the closest he'd ever had to one. The thought stings him for a second, a brief pain in his chest, and he brushes it off with his well-known stoicism, ready to fall into your arms instead for one restoring night.

Hood drawn up, he ensures the space around him is empty, pressing the button to your door. Unusually, he hadn't knocked, yet he slips in as it hisses open.

A sigh of relief blows through his pursed lips at his successful venture to forbidden grounds; and like clockwork, his arms fold as he leans his side into the wall. He smirks when you finally see him.

"Maker, I wasn't expecting you-" Your hand on your heart almost worries him.

"Am I not welcome?" He asks quizzically, looking particularly regal, features made dark by the shadow of his hood. Jedi Knight was a rightfully chosen word.

He knew he was indeed welcome.

"Oh, don't be a fool." You kiss his lips in a short but sweet peck, tangling your fingers in the length of his auburn hair and taking his hood down. It's not enough for him.

"You'll have to kiss me longer than that." He talks low and deep against your lips, pressing them back together for a lingering moment. As it consumes your senses, it releases all of his pesky, pent up stresses. His whimper lights up your insides.

As you come apart for the second time, his hand finds the back of your neck to cradle it delicately, eyes switching between your left and right. "What if I am a fool?"

You jab a finger into his side, "You're not", and he huffs.

"Coming here, I'd say so." He waits with an expectant look, one that makes his eyes crinkle with the smile he's trying to put off.

"Hey!" You swat at his shoulder and he takes it with exuberance, "we're careful enough about it."

Unwittingly, you try walking back to your notebook, in which you were scrawling details about deadly Felucian spore plants.

"Oh, are we?" His hands catch your waist, bringing your back swiftly to his chest. Hands creep under your clothing and caress your bare skin.

It instantly makes you weak against him, powerless to put any stop to it, and you let him continue his loving, handsy, research of your body. "Would you prefer we do this outside?" His mouth is dangerously close to nipping your ear.

"Obi-Wan..." You whine, only giving him extra incentive.

"I thought we were careful enough..."

You turn in his arms, wrapping your own around his neck, his head lazily falling into yours. Carefully, he places open-mouthed kisses all along your collarbone. He's not thinking about Kamino, nor how he'll get there. It's all forgotten as he adores you with his lips.

It feels so soft and elegant, he's so soft and elegant, but even as he's lost in his amorous deeds, the nature of his visit hasn't escaped you yet. Secrecy lead you to plan specific times to indulge in each other, although here he is, a doting surprise.

You reluctantly hum a pushy sound. He stops his movements but his lips stay connected to you. Obi-Wan hums a questioning hmm? in return.

"Did you have something to tell me?" You take him by the shoulders, all of a sudden worried that he most likely did and that it wouldn't be your favourite piece of news.

"Oh," he grumbles in slight annoyance, not at you but at the thought of leaving you in a few hours' time. "Yes, love, I did come to speak with you about something."

Your stomach drops, something he senses, and he hurriedly implores you not to panic. Taking both your hands in his, he leads you to your bed and sits down with you on its plush mattress.

He gets on with it, "I'll be leaving soon," starting slowly, gauging your reactions, "to look for a planet erased from the archives. I don't know what I may come into contact with."

The something he came to talk about doesn't startle you as much as you'd expected. Obi-Wan is a very capable Jedi, and he usually left little room for you to fret over his well-being. That said, you did anyway, all the time. His penchant for being mouthy at odds happened to cost him some blood, but this seemed as normal a job as any.

"I came to tell you," he brushes a piece of hair behind your ear, eyes following it, then meeting your gaze again, "and spend the rest of the time I have with you."

His lips envelop yours once more, this time with more bursting energy, eagerly as having an itch that couldn't be scratched. And then it all turns soft, his hair tickling your cheek as he rubs his face along your neck, taking in your scent and trying to memorize it to the best of his ability.

"How long is that?" You ask, ruffling his neat, long hair.

"Few hours." He mumbles into your skin, beard scratching against it but it's nothing you mind. "Almost the night." He adds.

The night.

"You know, I'll have to be very centered when I leave."

You do know, and it means he'll want to meditate for a while.

"Of course," your hand finds his cheek, the scruff soft under your palm, "take your time."

Obi-Wan is grateful for your constant understanding, but he has other plans - he never meant to come into your quarters to deny you his attention. You're glad to have him near regardless of what he does, yet his hand rests on your thigh and his eyes turn pleading.

"I thought you could join me." It's less of a question and more of an implication. An implication that it wasn't going to be a traditional meditation session.

You can't muster a proper response, a quiet oh coming out in its place. And as words fail you, you nod your head in agreement. Enthusiastically.

"Very well." He whispers hot against your skin, moving his head from it and standing up - except he starts to take off his cloak and utility belt. A breathy noise, and you earn yourself an amused look from him. "What? Would you rather do it for me?"

You smile charmingly, feet gently kicking at his shins, "Is that what you want?"

And he feels it again. The need to make his love known.

"I couldn't say no, darling." It leaves his chest in a hum, body leaning down for his lips to touch your forehead. Your fingers hook onto his belt, tugging him towards you and threatening to make him topple onto the mattress. He grumbles in happy exasperation, the kind that leaves him feeling overwhelmingly fond of you as you pull it off of him and neatly lay it on the sheets. He smiles at the care you give to himself and his possessions.

His fingers trace the edges of his wrap. He gathers some of it and holds it out to you. Your eyes narrow.

"More?" Your hands slowly extend to the fabric.

"Won't you?" He asks, and you sense a trace of timidity in it that makes your cheeks burn. To have flustered Obi-Wan again, for who knows how many times it's been now - you feel precious. And to him, you were just that.

The back of his hand slips gingerly down your face as you pull, the fabric wrap starting to fall off his shoulders, leaving him in his undershirt. You ravel it around your wrists and lay it beside his belt.

"That's better, thank you." He pushes the sleeves up to his elbows, the fabric loose and airy on his body, and he's effortlessly handsome.

You feebly try not to ogle him, but he's loosened the collar and his chest peeks through the linen, the image romantic on its own. He feels your stare, chuckling sweetly at your enamoured face, "I feel warm when I'm with you," giving a reason to his lack of layers.

You feel warm, too. Obi-Wan guides you to stand - ever the gentleman - and doesn't let you go while he rolls out your intricate rug from Jakku that had been sitting in the corner. Then he does let go of you, sitting down with his legs in front of him, hair falling princely on his forehead.

"Sit, my love." He motions his head, tilting it towards the spot in front of him. You're not sure why he's not sitting cross-legged, but you follow his lead and sit before him with a straight back.

"No, no. Closer." You inch forward. He extends his cheek out to you with closed eyes, waiting for his kiss. It comes as second nature to you, without a second thought, giggling quietly as you peck his face and he joins the laughter when he feels it. "Now, turn around."

How was this going to go?

You throw him a look, to which he nods his head rigidly. Turning your body before him, everything then becomes a soft and serene blur, laced with every drop of love you held for the other. His arms pull you snug against his front, chin hooking onto your shoulder.

He inhales and exhales deeply along with you, chest firm against your back, bodies moulding.

"That's it," he coos, hands pressing against your stomach, "breathe with me, feel everything..."

All you can do is what he says. The act is new but the feeling isn’t foreign; Obi-Wan’s arrays of intimacy are common, but this is different, the anticipation aloft and the touches silken.

There's the sound of air passing in through his nose. His head further lolls onto you, your lungs filling shakily, the feeling sweet and kind. Your wrists, your neck, seemingly everything has a throbbing pulse. Obi-Wan doesn't miss your wavering breaths, deft fingers making quick work of soothing your muscles.

"So tense... it's only me, darling."

His words surround you. Melodic and steady, "Let go."

You do, floating and falling.

You sense everything - the tide of his breathing, his gentle humming, the way he keeps you tight against him like he couldn't go without; the clement whispers, feeling perfectly flush with the man who brings you nothing but pure, good feelings - like it's the only thing he knows how to do - even as he does everything else with poise and taste.

This is no exception. The sensuality is tangible - the unknowing Jedi who roam the hallway outside could have felt it, should have felt it, if not for Obi-Wan's ability to be subtle about making you weak and entirely his.

"Trust me." He brushes up the column of your throat, cautiously bringing your head back into the crook of his neck as he cranes his own to make space. He notes the fluffy feeling of your hair, arm crossing your body. You murmur, "I always trust you."

Stars, if he didn't love to hear it.

"Tell me what you see when you close your eyes."

In the blackness, there comes nothing.

"I see- I don't see anything. I only feel you..."

And what did he expect?

There wasn't anything to see when there was so much to feel. His tender hand on your throat and his legs hugging yours, you stood no chance at finding an image in your mind.

"Good," he presses his face to yours, "nice, isn't it?"

You sigh, completely enveloped in him - it's physical and emotional. Obi-Wan groans lightly at your sound, further burying his face into your curve, trying to grapple that this wouldn't last forever.

And inevitably, the falling continues. The fog of slumber starts to cloud your head by Obi-Wan's effect, that which leaves you too calm to stay awake in his arms. Fighting it isn't of any use; his soothing energy had always been a mystery, what with its pleasant gentleness that is unassailable against your consciousness.

But the moment is too sweet to lose.

He exhales an ahh of acknowledgement for your perseverance in staying awake.

"Obi, I'm not sure how this is helping you clear your mind-"

He supposes he hadn't been clear himself - learning your body under the expanse of his palms, through the matching time of your breathing, was a meditation in itself.

"But it has, my love."

It all starts over again. The lush sensations and the rush of your heart. Your senses dialed with his fingertips pressed on your wrists, finding the rhythm of your aliveness; the only thing he would hope to be sure of in the coming years that neither of you expected yet.

You both reach a point of euphoric tranquility - two words you'd use to describe his company - chests expanding and deflating at the same, slow rate. It had come to an end.

"You did wonderfully for me." A lasting kiss on your neck as he savours it. His lips send you into pleasant, sunny rapture.

The occurrence leaves you in a hazy state, all that comfort pressed against you is taken away as you both rise, sleepily, happily, and stumble into your bed.

"I don't want to wake you when I leave," Obi-Wan says, considerately and kind, propped up over you on his elbows, "I'll be careful."

"Don't be," and he melts, "I'd hate to miss you."

It’s the saccharine pieces of time that made him whole. Without another word, he kisses you; conveying the completeness that he feels by your hand, discreetly hungry but overshadowed by a chaste and giving nature. It's light and loving and drawn out long.

Then he falls grandly into the sheets beside you, arm heavily draping across your stomach, your lips missing his but you know he needs the sleep. And as the morning came, he was already gone. A vague memory of his departure floods your mind, playing over your closed eyelids - you can see it - the way he had kissed your temples, both lazily and warm, your arm semi-consciously reaching out to him, which his lips had touched too, held by both his hands.

What you hadn't seen, was Obi-Wan looming in the doorway, overseeing you drifting back to dreaming, cloak not keeping him nearly as warm as you did. He blew a kiss that you didn't catch, but knew that had you been awake, you'd have thrown it back to him.

He hopes Kamino will be a simple, touch and go engagement.

#obi wan kenobi x reader #obi wan x reader #obi wan kenobi #obi wan #obi wan imagine #obi wan fluff #obi wan fanfiction #star wars #star wars imagine #userkarina #ewan mcgregor

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xiyao-feels · 4 years ago

Text

So, this started off as a shipping bingo for MDZS nie//lan; I've added the bingo meme above so that you know what you're getting into. What it evolved into, however, is several thousand words of close reading of the NMJ+LXC relationship, getting some into the 3//zun dynamics and comparing it with LXC and JGY's relationship to help demonstrate my point. If that sounds interesting to you, read away! Fair warning: as you might gather from the bingo above I am not very gentle, not only on the idea of a romantic relationship but also on their friendship.

Originally, I imagined I'd be saying something like, while of course they were very good friends and LXC grieves for NMJ, there's no evidence of romantic interest. But I wanted to look over the scenes first, to get a handle on them properly and to pick out some quotes; and what I found, when I looked at it closely, startled me—I couldn't believe how little there actually was.

My methodology for this review, by the way: I searched the entire text for every variation on their name I could think of, and then read over the chapter for chapters they were both mentioned in. I also reviewed chapters where only one of them is mentioned (that's how I caught the reference in ch 16, where NMJ is only referred to as NHS' brother). I might have missed something, or I might have read it and not registered it, etc etc. I definitely don't have JGY's memory XP But I've done my best to be thorough.

Also, a heads up: while I've done a little bit of addressing NMJ's emotions, this is mostly focused on what LXC feels, because otherwise this would be even more ridiculously long and because that's where my interest lies.

I'll state my conclusions up front, in case you just want to know what I think and not have to wade through [mumble] thousand words to get there. But it's far enough off from even the standard non-shippy take on their relationship that I really did think it was worth walking through the evidence.

It seems to me that while NMJ and LXC were to some extent close before the war, they grew apart during the war and very much so afterwards. There are a few moments that suggest NMJ might feel unusually tender towards LXC, there is nothing similar on LXC's part, and frankly their post-Sunshot interactions that we see suggest that—while LXC certainly cares about him—he does not at all feel close to him.

Moreover, his personal grief for NMJ's death, and whatever personal betrayal he may feel about JGY killing his, LXC's, friend, are not the drivers of his emotional difficulties with respect to JGY.

Okay, now the evidence. This has been divided up into two parts, NMJ alive and NMJ dead.

Pt I: NMJ alive

LXC and NMJ were friends before Sunshot; while we don't have a lot of evidence to guess how close they were, we can certainly see signs of long familiarity with each other in their later interactions, and it's worth noting that we don't see either of them having other friends beyond, in LXC's case, JGY.*

*NMJ got along with his subordinate MY very well, but except for one incident it was purely in the context of a superior/subordinate relationship, and he does not seem to have been interested in MY as a person, so I'm not classing them as friends.

Nevertheless, during Sunshot, we can see LXC begin to grow apart from him, and in their post-Sunshot interactions they start not very close and end up quite distant. By the time if NMJ's death, it's clear that while LXC cares about him, he is not emotionally close to him at all.

A brief discussion of NMJ's feelings, before I spend most of the rest of the post focusing on LXC's. As I mentioned above, LXC seems to be NMJ's only friend, and he does react to him in ways he doesn't really seem to anyone else. In the teacups scene, for example, we're told that "while Nie MingJue had never been one for humor," nevertheless "in front of Lan XiChen, his expression eased." Later, towards the end of the stairs incident, LXC is able to dissuade him from immediately pursuing JGY's death, which I believe is as much as we see anyone ever do with NMJ's anger. Finally, in ch 46, when LXC and LWJ are playing music to deal with NMJ's headless corpse, WWX thinks that NMJ might particularly be responding to LXC playing Liebing: "Wei WuXian didn’t know if it was only his imagination, but as soon as the soft, serene tone of the xiao appeared, the corpse’s movement paused. For a moment, he seemed to have stood still and listened, then turned around, as though he wanted to see who was the one playing the music."

If you wanted to say that NMJ has romantic or quasi-romantic feelings about LXC, then I don't think that would be an unreasonable extrapolation from the text, although I also don't think it's a necessary one; friendship and minor romantic feelings are I think pretty much equally fair readings.

Even so, LXC is not his priority; rather, he prioritizes NHS and (probably not unrelatedly) JGY's moral rectitude. In Ch 48, the friendly 3zun conversation only happens because NMJ was seeking LXC out to bring him NHS' saber, which he'd left behind, and when he qi deviates it's NHS and not LXC who manages to bring him some calm just before he dies, and whose features he can recognize (ch 50). At the Phoenix Mountain Hunt (ch 69-70), we see no sign that either he or LXC sought each other out, and on those occasions we do see NMJ initiate discussion with LXC it's usually about JGY's moral rectitude (ch 73, his sarcastic remark about JGY's hard work after the conference about WWX; ch 49, his interjection during the guqin scene; ch 49, the beginning of the stairs incident).

And what about what LXC feels? Let's take a close look at the progression of their relationship.

In chapter 16, when NHS is studying at Cloud Recesses, we see LXC run into him and convey NMJ's query into his studies, having apparently recently returned from Qinghe. While he doesn't say what he was doing there, it seems reasonable to infer that he was either visiting NMJ or at least visited him while he was there. (ETA: NHS also hopes that LXC will put in some good words for him to NMJ, which also suggests that he expects they'll be in contact.) This establishes a baseline of closeness from before the war, however much they drift apart during and after. However, we never see any of their interactions before the war, or anything else about their relationship; this is all we get.

The high point of the NMJ and LXC interactions that we see on page happen during Sunshot, where we see them have three conversations (all in ch 48). High point, however, is a relative phrase. In order, there's the teacups scene; there's their conversation (including MY) after NMJ agrees to release MY from his service, with a recommendation letter no less; and there's their conversation where NMJ recounts what happened with MY in Langya.

Let's start with the teacups scene. NMJ and LXC do talk, but it's part of a group conversation with other cultivators—at least three and as many as six of whom we see interject,* one of whom is another sect leader—and it seems mostly about practical or immediate matters. The exchange on the page isn't long and "Soon afterward, Lan XiChen and the rest stood up" and are led to their resting areas by MY. Moreover, interestingly, it's NMJ who asks all the questions; LXC answers him, but doesn't ask him questions in turn, or comment on his situation.

*there are two separate occasions where there cultivators per chime in

(Note also that the focus of the conversation suggests that NMJ and LXC aren't communicating extensively through letters or anything, as does LXC not knowing MY is NMJ's deputy. I don't think this is hugely significant, given that there's a war on and presumably they don't want information leaking everywhere and LXC doesn't seem to have a fixed address, but it does seem worth noting—as does the implication, perhaps more significant, that LXC only stops at Hejian when he's escorting other cultivators: "Everytime Lan XiChen passed Hejian as he was escorting other cultivators, he would rest shortly[.]")

NMJ and LXC's conversation in the teacups scene stands in really stark contrast to the conversation between LXC and MY that NMJ is about to overhear. That conversation is very much private; it's in LXC's private resting area, and MY is sitting in the presence of Zewu-Jun. The conversation is sort of about the war, but really only as it relates to MY's dream of "earn[ing] a proper place in the LanlingJin Sect" and "receiv[ing] the approval of [his] father." The very first thing we hear LXC say is a comment on MY's situation ("What a coincidence. You joined MingJue-xiong’s force and became his deputy")! He is of course going to go on to raise the possibility of MY going to Langya (to serve his father), and independently volunteer to talk to NMJ if NMJ isn't willing to let MY go. And even after NMJ joins them, some things are kept private between LXC and MY; when he asks them how they know each other, LXC refuses to answer, and then when he asks MY to answer as LXC will not, MY also refuses him, since LXC doesn't want it spoken.

The two conversations are simply very different, in a way that suggests a strong contrast between LXC's feelings for and interest in NMJ and LXC's feelings for and interest in MY. It's also worth noting, as I mentioned above, that it seems that NMJ sought LXC out because he was bringing LXC NHS' sabre, so LXC can bring it on to NHS.

Now, let's look at the conversation the three of them have after NMJ volunteers to give MY a letter of recommendation and send him to serve his father in Langya. This conversation is, I think, the high point of the interactions they have that we actually see. LXC expresses a positive evaluation of NMJ: "Look, I told you that MingJue-xiong would respect your decision." He smiles at NHS' sabre, and responds directly to NMJ. And then of course there's this famous paragraph:

The three chatted back and forth, at times serious, yet at times light. The conversation was much more relaxed than when they had been in the living room. Listening to their chatter, Wei WuXian often wanted to get a word in as well, yet he was unable to do so.

That said...well. Again, there's nothing about anything here that suggests romance, and if you look at the reasons I give for it being the high point, that's not actually very high. As to the paragraph—again, I do think they're friends! But I think it's also noteworthy that the easiest conversation we see/hear about them having is one that is early in the war,* and where MY is also present, and one where NMJ has just done something good for MY.

*MY is noted as having joined the Nie forces "right after" Sunshot begins, and to have been promoted to NMJ's deputy after not many interactions; LXC also seems surprised at least by MY being NMJ's deputy, which suggests that he hasn't stopped there before while this was the case, and he comes by in the paragraph immediately after MY is promoted. Finally, after MY vanishes after his confrontation with NMJ in Langya, we're told that "during the next few years" no traces could be found of him. All taken together, this suggests to me that MY was NMJ's deputy for 1-2 months early in the war, and the conversation of course takes place at the very end of that period

(As ever, I recommend confusion-and-more's close reading of the second scene, here.)

The next interaction that's mentioned in the text is after MY tricks and immobilizes NMJ and flees, when NMJ describes what happened with him to LXC. I think it's worth noting exactly how the exchange is introduced:

Even when Lan XiChen had the time to assist Langya, a few days later, his anger hadn’t died down one bit. As soon as he came, Lan XiChen laughed, “MingJue-xiong, what a temper you seem to be in. Where is Meng Yao? Why does he not come and douse your flames?”

"As soon as he came," note! It seems to be literally the first thing LXC says. And while it is a comment on NMJ's state, its primary function seems to be as a lead-in to asking about the state/whereabouts of MY. Their exchange as the text shows us is /entirely/ about MY, and he's clearly the focus of LXC's interest. We also have this from LXC, which I think is interesting as it shows the contrast between his morality and NMJ's:

"Judging from his words, the person whom he killed had definitely done wrong. However, he should not have taken his life either. We are in harsh times, so it is quite difficult to determine who was at fault."

Their next interaction is in chapter 49, LXC defending MY from NMJ post Sun Palace—and I don't just mean verbally, he's defending against Baxia with an unsheathed Shuoyue through this whole conversation. At this point, he still has some faith in NMJ's ability to act rationally towards MY, as he asks MY if MY hadn't told NMJ about his being the spy, and NMJ displays familiarity with LXC, knowing that he rarely interrupted people. I'll note that unlike in CQL, LXC does not seem particularly angry at this point—MDZS LXC is almost never angry, including at multiple points where CQL LXC /is/—but overall it's hardly an example of particular closeness, and we see that LXC's morality continues to differ from NMJ's: "MingJue-xiong," he says of MY, "he was undercover in Qishan, and sometimes there would be some things that… could not have been helped."

Later in the chapter, just before the Flower Banquet, it's mentioned (possibly as inference from WWX) that LXC brought up the sworn brotherhood to NMJ, "having always hoped that the two [NMJ and JGY] would reconcile." Obviously we can infer things about their closeness from the fact that LXC does in fact swear brotherhood with NMJ, but we have no direct textual statement as to why he wanted to swear /himself/ to NMJ, be that personal or political or both.

Next comes the Flower Banquet. NMJ seeks JGY out, first, for his usual concerns with JGY's moral rectitude. Shortly after, LWJ and LXC come over; shortly after that, JC and WWX come over, though they soon move on. There are two things I want to note here. First, it's the only time we see LXC seek NMJ out (and one of only two times we see one of them seek the other out—the other will be in ch 73, after the conference about WWX, when NMJ comes over to him and JGY talking). Second, this is the only time we see LXC respond to NMJ verbally post-Sunshot in a way that isn't about defending someone, either JGY (the usual case) or WQ (at the conference in ch 73)—although it is to some degree a defense of WWX, and it's not quite directly in reply to NMJ, as NMJ and LWJ have a brief exchange on the subject first. These positive signs will not occur again, and I think it's significant that this is the earliest post-Sunshot scene we see.

The next scene for this analysis (chronologically speaking; it's in an entirely different chapter) is the Phoenix Mountain Hunt. Although we see NMJ and LXC arrive to the hunt in ch 69, NMJ arrives after the Twin Jades have started slowly riding into the distance and we don't actually see them interact at all; nor do we see them together in ch 70, the rest of the hunt. Moreover, there doesn't really seem to be any suggestion that they /did/ interact. When JGY says he's not sure if he'll be able to expand the hunting ground in two hours, LXC asks him why, instead of saying something like "oh right da-ge was doing all that hunting too." Moreover, when JGY answers him ("not only did Young Master Wei keep a third of the prey to himself, our eldest brother has eliminated over half of the fays and the monsters as well"), LXC's response doesn't indicate that he saw NMJ earlier, or knew what he was doing, though it does suggest a general familiarity with Nie Mingjue's character: 'Hearing this, Lan XiChen laughed, “That is how Brother is like, after all.”'

Now, this hardly rules out the idea that they had any interaction, but I think it at least suggests they didn't have any significant interaction, or any interaction after the hunt began. This is in contrast (again!) to his relationship with JGY—he was with him earlier for who knows how long, as they arrive on the scene together, and after this is going to go help expand the hunting grounds. They do have LWJ with them for this last, but he's helping them at LXC's request, and the framing of that request is very—well: "WangJi, should we leave, or would you like to help as well?" So LWJ can come help them, but if he doesn't want to, LXC is simply going to go off with JGY again.

If the Flower Banquet was the high point of their actual interactions on the page, post-Sunshot, then this is I think the most purely emotionally positive we see LXC feel about NMJ post-Sunshot. Significantly, it's based on an apparently older familiarity, and it's when they don't seem to have interacted recently and NMJ isn't even on the page.

The next scene they're in together, again chronologically, is in chapter 73. They're seated together in the first row, but that's explicitly because of their status, and they're grouped with LWJ and JC: "In the front row sat sect leaders and famed cultivators like Nie MingJue, Jiang Cheng, Lan XiChen, and Lan WangJi." During the conference, they have a brief conflict about WQ's culpability, which LXC leaves off explicitly because he's familiar with NMJ's hatred for the Wen. After the conference, we're told "the Venerated Trio gathered," but what this looks like in practice is LXC and JGY talking together and then NMJ coming over. LXC observed that JGY has worked hard, JGY is amused by the destruction JC wrought on his table, and then NMJ interrupts with a negative comment about JGY*: "All clever talk—hard work indeed." LXC smiles but doesn't reply. JGY tries to change the subject by asking LXC where LWJ is, and LXC gestures to the front, where LWJ and Mianmian are finishing up their conversation. NMJ compliments Mianmian, and JGY agrees. That's the end of the scene. I noted for the Flower Banquet that that scene unusually involves LXC replying verbally to NMJ in a way that isn't /just/ about defending someone; here, LXC does not speak a single word after NMJ joins them.

*In the interests of not being unfair I will note that NMJ did observe JGY lie; this doesn't really matter to the NMJ-LXC stuff except that it's a lie that LXC would also have noticed, as it involved contradicting LWJ.

NMJ and LXC are once again in the same scene in ch 78, for the swearing ceremony, and even speak one after the other. However, they don't seem to interact in any way, and their speech seems to be an important sect leader thing; we're told of their responses to JGS' toast, and then JC is explicitly contrasted in not speaking:

Nie MingJue, “May their souls live on.”

Lan XiChen, “Rest in peace.”

Jiang Cheng, however, still had on a darkened expression. He didn’t say anything even after he poured the wine.

Now we're back in the Empathy chapters, after a not insignificant gap: the next scene is the guqin scene, in chapter 49. Although LXC is playing guqin in the Unclean Realm, and is going to offer to teach JGY the Song of Clarity which he can use on NMJ, LXC and NMJ barely interact at all—they only have one very brief exchange, where NMJ objects to LXC teaching JGY the SoC (because it's leaking Lan techniques), LXC defends his decision, and NMJ realizes he's not going to change his mind so he doesn't say anything. Again, in contrast, LXC is very focused on JGY, asking him questions about his background, complimenting his playing, and independently offering to help him improve his guqin and even teach him an "exclusive teaching" of the Lan! The contrast is very noticeable.

A little after this, it's revealed that LXC left a guqin at the UR, apparently for JGY to use to play the SoC to NMJ. This is ostensibly because he is busy with the rebuilding of CR, although WWX speculates that this is just an excuse and that he "simply wanted to give Nie MingJue and Jin GuangYao a chance to ease their tension."

In chapter 30, it's revealed that at a Discussion Conference in the past, NMJ (who we are told otherwise would not have shown up, note, although it would have been an opportunity to see LXC) confronts the Jin about their refusal to sentence XY to death. He draws his sabre with the intent of killing XY, and gives JGY "a harsh scolding," causing JGY to "hid[e] behind Lan XiChen, not daring to say anything else." It seems likely that LXC defends JGY and/or helps to calm NMJ down, although nevertheless the Jin Sect has to (temporarily) give in on the matter of XY's death sentence; nothing about any further interaction they may have is noted.

Their next interaction is at the stairs incident, back in chapter 49. NMJ charges in on LXC and JGY, who are discussing the watchtower plans together, and tells LXC to stay there and JGY to come out with him. LXC's "face disclose[s] his worry," but JGY stops him and follows NMJ out. Some time later, LXC shows up at the conflict, coming to see what's happening, "concerned after having waited for long." He manages to calm NMJ down and prevent him from further trying to kill JGY, by talking about the work JGY has put in with the Song of Clarity, pointing out that he really is in a terrible situation, and urging NMJ to give him more time. Nothing he says particularly suggests that he feels close to NMJ; if anything, he seems kind of in denial about just how much NMJ is set against JGY.

Finally, there is their last interaction, just before NMJ's death. LXC is defending—well, not so much NMJ as the idea that NMJ hasn't rejected JGY completely, to JGY. His arguments are as follows: NMJ chose to become sworn brothers with JGY, which means he approves of JGY; when NMJ included in the oath stuff about "face a thousand accusing fingers, be torn from limb to limb," and so forth, he /also/ included "if one were to think otherwise," and since JGY doesn't think otherwise, he doesn't need to worry about it too much; that NMJ has always cherished JGY's talent and hoped he would choose the right path; and finally, that he's really really troubled by the saber spirit, that "[h]is anger was simply too great for him to have thought before speaking," and that JGY must not provoke him again (presumably by talking back, as he did at the stairs). As shining defenses of character go, this... isn't one. Again, he seems like he's kind of in denial about how much NMJ is set against JGY—notably, he didn't see all of the stairs incident, certainly not the part before JGY talked back—but it also doesn't exactly contain a strong positive assessment of NMJ. Forget his defense of JGY to Wangxian: this doesn't even compare to his confidence in NMJ in the conversation NMJ overhears and then joins at the Hejian front.

I realize all this is a lot, so to sum up their post-Sunshot interactions: we only see LXC seek out NMJ once, early post-Sunshot, and that's at a party. The fondest LXC seems of NMJ is one line during the Phoenix Mountain Hunt, when NMJ isn't even on-page. We do not see them spend any time privately together when JGY is not also there, and every time they interact publically JGY is also present at the party or gathering. When we do see them interact, the only time LXC responds verbally directly to NMJ is in defense of someone; if we include his indirect defense of WWX at the Flower Banquet, then that becomes 'the only time we see LXC respond verbally to NMJ at all.'

This is not of course to say that they don't have interactions we don't see. Given the time gaps, they must! But there's nothing about the interactions we *do* see to suggest that the ones we don't are in any way actually emotionally close, certainly not on LXC's part. Again, a contrast with his interactions with JGY is instructive; as with NMJ, we certainly don't see all of their interactions, but what we do see signals their closeness, mutual respect, and tendency to spend time together.

PT II: NMJ dead

Okay, you say, but wait! What about the depth of his renewed grief after he finds NMJ's body!! What about his deep personal betrayal about JGY killing his close friend!!!

Yes, I say, wild-eyed, having tried to find anything in the text for just that. what /about/ all that.

My problem is, how do I prove a negative? In the chapters with NMJ alive, LXC's presence and his interactions with NMJ are short enough that I could reasonably if lengthily discuss and summarize; that's just not going to work here (there are twelve and a half temple chapters!), not least because some of it is a matter of context or interpretation. So I'm doing two things. First, where we do see him actively upset, I'm going to show you what he seems upset about, and second, I'm going to point out places where we might expect him to react if he's feeling a deep personal grief about NMJ specifically, and instead he does not, or reacts differently.

Let's start with chapter 46, where LXC sees NMJ's moving corpse for the first time. I've seen the idea around that LXC recognized NMJ by his abs, but this doesn't really seem to be the case; it's either the shape of his (headless) body or his saber-fighting movements. Significantly, LWJ also recognizes it at the exact same time: "As they saw the headless shadow, both [LXC and LWJ] paused shortly." LXC's reaction to this recognition is extreme surprise, "almost to the point of shocked," and he takes a bit to resume playing Liebing, joining LWJ on the guqin (to deal with the headless corpse that's going around). 'Shock' is hardly incompatible with immense personal grief, but I will note that in this section he is also not described as anything other than shocked, although it is his first time seeing NMJ's body in ten years.

In a few paragraphs they deal with the corpse, attacking its energy enough that it falls back into pieces. As WWX seals the pieces back into his qiankun pouch, LXC asks him to wait: he wants to look at the corpse first, and he's described as having an "ashen" complexion. In context, though, both of these things seem to me to be about the likely identity of NMJ's killer, rather than NMJ himself; when LXC says he want to look at the corpse, WWX asks him if he recognizes the corpse, but it's not LXC who replies: "Before Lan XiChen could reply, Lan WangJi already nodded slowly." Moreover, as WWX points out, LWJ has already given LXC all the evidence that points at JGY as the killer—and also, after they do start talking about the identity of the killer, LXC shows no further interest in the corpse. This, from WWX, seems to me to sum up LXC's emotional conflict in this conversation: "Sect Leader Lan, you know who is the most suspicious person. You’re just refusing to admit it." It's not about NMJ being the corpse per se; it's what NMJ being the corpse suggests JGY did. ETA: I look at this scene in more detail here.

(I'll also note that the very first time we see LXC have anything to do with NMJ's corpse, it's in chapter 11, in the context of LWJ asking if LXC is visiting JGY "again" and a paragraph on JGY from WWX which includes the revelation that he and LXC are sworn brothers on the one hand, and LXC talking about LWJ being in good spirits and bringing guests home on the other. Meanwhile, NMJ's arm: 'Lan XiChen spoke, “Uncle has taken and examined what you brought back from Mo Village.”'

Now obviously we can't infer LXC's feelings about NMJ from this directly, given that he doesn't know it's NMJ's arm at the time, but it's certainly textually suggestive, and it very much fits in with a pattern of LXC prioritizing JGY and LWJ.)

That's most of the end of chapter 46; the next chapter has LXC, LWJ, and WWX going to the discussion conference at Carp Tower. Again, it's kind of hard to prove a negative, and LXC's reactions aren't really described at great length (though he does of course greet JGY with a smile); the only thing that seems unusual is that he seems "absent-minded."

Chapters 48 and 49, and part of 50, are the Empathy chapters. After WWX escapes from the flashback and returns to LWJ, he and LWJ start causing a ruckus trying to get into JGY's bedchamber (to get to his secret room). An audience is attracted, including LXC. Taking a cue from LWJ, he pressures his way into the treasure room; he seems relieved when NMJ's head isn't behind the curtain WWX lifts. He has—well, he certainly has a few emotional reactions, but at no point does he seem driven by grief over NMJ instead of uncertainty about JGY. At one point he "nod[s] heavily" to confirm to NHS that he's talking about NMJ. Or consider this exchange:

Jin GuangYao’s eyes still held tears, but appeared as if they were red with anger. He clenched his hands into fists and shouted with both grief and resentment, “Dismembered… Dismembered! Who in this world could’ve done such an insane act?!”

Lan XiChen shook his head, “I do not know. When we were searching for the head, the clues disappeared.”

Now obviously JGY is acting—but he's acting the role of someone who /is/ personally mourning NMJ, and he's showing more anger than LXC ever does about it. Now—to be fair, MDZS LXC gets angry even less than CQL LXC, who is hardly an angry person. But there are a few times we do see him angry—certain moments confronting JGY in the temple, in the temple courtyard when he's angry at WWX for how he's treated LWJ—and what happens to NMJ's body, never mind the fact of the death itself, doesn't seem to make the list.

In chapter 63, WWX wakes up in CR, having been recovering for four days. In this chapter and the next two, LXC becomes increasingly distressed as they discover the Song of Turmoil and the evidence seems to weigh against Jin Guangyao, enough that it's not really feasible to review every instance of it. Nevertheless, there are a couple of parts I think it's worth looking at directly.

In chapter 64, we get something extremely valuable: LXC's statement of his own emotional quandary.

Lan XiChen supported his head on his hand. His voice was low, as though he was trying to hold something back, “WangJi, the version of Jin GuangYao that I know is entirely different compared to the version that you know and the version that the world knows! Throughout all these years, in my eyes, he has always been… enduring his suffer, caring for all people, treating everyone with respect. I have always believed, without a doubt, that the criticism he received from others all came from misunderstandings, that what I knew how he truly is. Now, you want me to believe, at once, that everything about this person is fake, that he planned to kill one of his sworn brothers, that I was also a part of his plan and even helped him… Could you please allow me some more discretion before I make my own judgement?”

So, what is he distressed by here? It's quite clearly the idea that he /doesn't/ know JGY, that the JGY he knows is fake, a falsehood, and relatedly that their relationship is not as he understands it ("that I was also a part of his plan and even helped him"). JGY killing NMJ is obviously what inspires this crisis, but it's not at all what's centered in his speech here, and even the half-sentence mention that it gets doesn't frame it at all in terms of NMJ's relationship to LXC. "He planned to kill one of his sworn brothers," he says, not "our sworn brother" or "my sworn brother" or even "my friend."

(The paragraph immediately following reads to me more like WWX's conclusions than narrative certainty, but either way, it's not about his personal relationship with NMJ: "Lan XiChen had taught Jin GuangYao the Song of Clarity, keeping in mind the grudge between Jin GuangYao and Nie MingJue, hoping that they could be how they used to be. He requested Jin GuangYao to help calm Nie MingJue in place of him. Who would’ve known that his kindness made possible Jin GuangYao’s cruelty? How should he face himself now?")

Later in the chapter, there's the famous section where he tells WWX about his and LWJ's parents' story. I do think part of this is about telling WWX something about LWJ (although not that LWJ has feelings for him, which MDZS LXC thinks he already knows), but it's also pretty transparently about his own uncertainty re: JGY.

He paused before speaking again, “Young Master Wei, can you understand why he did such a thing?”

Wei WuXian answered after a moment of silence, “He could neither forgive the one who killed his teacher nor watch the death of the woman who he loved. He could only marry her to protect her life and force himself not to see her.”

Lan XiChen, “Do you think that this was right?”

Wei WuXian, “I don’t know.”

Lan XiChen looked somewhat lost, “Then, what do you think would be right?”

Wei WuXian, “I don’t know.”

A while later, [Lan Xichen speaks again, in a whisper]

He spoke, “Madam Lan must’ve been a very gentle woman.”

Lan XiChen, “In my memories, Mother had indeed been so. I do not know why she did such a thing back then. And, in truth, I…”

He took in a deep breath before confessing, “Do not want to know either.”

It's not what you might call subtle.

But it's also worth noting, I think, exactly what LXC focuses on telling the story. It was one of his father's teachers that his mother killed—and while that is absolutely a very important position, and obviously would have mattered and indeed did matter to QHJ a great deal—that's literally all the information we get about him, that he was QHJ's teacher. He lingers on why QHJ did what he did, and whether it was the right thing; he talks about the crime his mother committed, and his response to that. He does not focus at all on the teacher, the clear NMJ-analogue in this scenario. He's not QHJ's beloved teacher, or his favourite teacher, or anything like that—he's not even just "his teacher," he's "one of his teachers." And maybe that's all the information he has about him, but he doesn't linger on that question either! Again, there's nothing here to suggest that his conflict is about his personal connection with NMJ.

ETA: I actually missed something here. Thanks to some critique in the notes (and which I discuss more extensively in the post linked at the bottom of the page), I looked at the Chinese here, and the word LXC uses for teacher is 恩师, which Pleco gives me as “mentor; one’s kind and respected master (or teacher).” So on the one hand, that's not nothing. On the other hand, the point remains that it's only one word, LXC isn't adding lots of adjectives on to describe the teacher, and as I mentioned in the previous paragraph, simply doesn't linger on the teacher in his conversation with WWX; the focus is elsewhere. I think the point as a whole stands.

Now to the temple chapters. I think it's fairly well-known, at this point, that he doesn't bring up NMJ to JGY in the temple chapters, but I'm going to point it out again—he doesn't bring up NMJ to JGY in the temple chapters! And this is, I feel, even more significant in MDZS, where he's seen NMJ's fierce corpse. That said, there are a few instances where he reacts to NMJ/NMJ's corpse; I'm going to look at all of them.

First of all, in ch 104 when WWX says "Looks like being called the son of a prostitute is really Sect Leader Jin’s weak spot. No wonder you killed ChiFeng-Zun," we're told that "With the mention of Nie MingJue, Lan XiChen’s expression changed." No further details are provided; we don't know what it changes into, and the only hint we have as to what it changes /from/ is that LXC's last described reaction, only two paragraphs previous, was calling "Sect Leader Jin" because he knew JGY was about to fuck with JC. Also interestingly, LXC does /not/ have any reaction described when JGY and JC have the "isn't it hard being your shixiong/isn't it even harder being your sworn brother" exchange, earlier in chapter 101. Perhaps his reaction is simply not noted by the text—it seems unlikely he has literally zero reaction to it—but if we're looking for a difference, it seems like it's either the explicit reference to killing NMJ, or the reminder of NMJ calling JGY the son of a prostitute.

Second, there's the moment NMJ('s fierce corpse) shows up (ch 106). He, JGY, and NHS all say "Brother." JGY and LXC's responses are one paragraph after the other, and the punctuation is the same: "… Brother."* Meanwhile, NHS reacts first, a few paragraphs earlier, and he cries out, "Brother!!!" We're told that "[their] three tones were drastically different," which is interesting as well. NHS seems in the grip of some strong, active emotion—excitement? grief? We're explicitly told that JGY is scared. Whatever LXC's tone is, it's hard to say—but it's not like NHS'.

*(In the original text it looks like LXC's is "…Brother." and JGY's is "…Brother...", but either way they're significantly more similar to each other's than either is to NHS'.)

Thirdly and finally, when the Jin cultivators are fighting NMJ's corpse (ch 107), NHS peers out from behind LXC's back and calls out to NMJ ("both frightened and eager"), leading NMJ to charge at them. LXC stops him by playing Liebing, then then tries to get him to recognize identifying NHS ("Brother, this is Huaisang!"); the latter unfortunately does not work, NMJ being totally overcome by resentful energy. This section does actually have some evidence of grief: when he plays Liebing, it's described as "with a sob of Liebing."

He'll continue to try and deal with NMJ's corpse, notably with LWJ and WWX, but those three moments are the only times he reacts to NMJ (as NMJ, as opposed to as a fierce corpse that needs to be dealt with). That's not a lot, and each moment is very brief, not to mention fairly ambiguous about LXC's emotional reaction. If he /was/ being driven by his grief for NMJ's death, you would think we'd see more of it.

Furthermore, there's one moment I think it's important to pull out as explicitly not about NMJ. LXC tells JGY (and had told him previously) not to call LXC er-ge, /not/ because he killed da-ge (which you might expect!) but because of the second siege: “Sect Leader Jin, I have already said, when you went your own way to scheme such havoc at Burial Mound, that there was no longer the need to call me ‘Brother.’”

Now, to be clear, it's not that LXC's reactions to things just aren't described in the temple sequence in general. Obviously we see him react when he's telling LWJ about WWX's feelings, but even beyond that, even when he's occupying a more background role in the narrative, we're given his reaction quite a few times. He sighs when LWJ seals his spiritual powers (ch 100); he tends to NHS, covering with his outer robe (ch 102), comforting him when he's disturbed at the sight of the coffin (ch 103), protecting him from SMS (after NHS frames him for stabbing him, ch. 107) and from NMJ (ch 107), and comforting him and giving him pain medicine about the wound in his leg (ch 108); along with LWJ, he's distressed by the sound of JC's sword-scraping technique against JGY's music (ch 101); he tries to warn JC a couple of times when JC is fighting JGY (ch 101), cautions JL (ch 101) and later JC (ch 102) about worsening JC's injuries, and along with JL, WWX, and LWJ freezes when JC slaps JL to the ground (ch 102); he asks Minshan why he's being rude to LWJ, and a little later, with SMS and JL, pauses in astonishment when LWJ laughs (ch 100); he averts his gaze from and seems perhaps embarassed by the ghosts that WWX summons (ch 104); he calls out to WWX to remind him that his current body is closely related to JGY, and will therefore attract NMJ's fierce corpse (ch 107). He actually has a couple of entertaining reactions to Wangxian being Wangxian: he coughs and tells WWX it is maybe not the best time and place for this when WWX is about to repeat "I really wanted to sleep with you," and then later he and Jin Ling inexplicably! move their sitting cushions far away from Wangxian's and gaze into the distance (ch 100).

And more than anything else—in what I think is a very instructive contrast—he reacts to JGY, in a way that reflects an ongoing continual emotional investment. He is, quite notably, consistently worried about JGY and unable to stand the sight of him in pain, even when he thinks he shouldn't be. When the coffin trap goes off, and they overhear Jin cultivators wailing and a pungent smoke emerges, there's worry in LXC's eyes; after JGY and Minshan make it out, and JGY takes some medicine against the poison, LXC hesitates for a moment and then asks what happened (ch 103). After LWJ cuts JGY's hand off—which means /after/ he's taken JL hostage, note—LXC "seemed as though he wanted to help him for an instant," though "in the end he dared not" (ch 106). When Minshan asks him for medicine for JGY, seeing how terrible JGY looks, he hesitates slightly before they're interrupted by NMJ's success fighting the Jin cultivators (ch 107). After they've defeated NMJ, he treats JGY's wrist; moreover, "Seeing that Jin GuangYao almost passed out from the pain, Lan XiChen, who in the beginning wanted to use this to punish him, still didn’t have the heart to bear it," and goes for the pain-relief medicine from NHS. And this is all not even accounting for his reactions to JGY either during his questioning of JGY or post-stabbing!

And what about when he's distressed by JGY? When he's reacting with upset or anger? There seem to be two consistent threads: first, that JGY did awful things/hurt people /not/ under constraint, and second, the idea that he doesn't know JGY after all and their relationship was a lie.

For the first, he calls out Sect Leader Jin when JGY starts in on JC after JC calls him the son of a prostitute (ch 104), although notably he does not do the same in their earlier confrontation when JGY is distracting JC in order to defeat him, only warning JC (ch 101); when JGY confesses to having burned down the brothel, he's distressed when JGY says that it wasn't entirely to remove the traces (ch 105); he becomes /less/ angry about the second siege and about QS when it turns out that he was operating under constraint in those conditions (ch 106); and of course, the thing he's angriest about is JGY killing his father, "and even in such a way" (ch 106). In ch 103, looking down at the coffin he is shocked that JGY buried something that caused such horror to its surroundings, but without further information about JGY's reasons this does not metamorphose into anger.

For the second, when WWX him asks why there's no light shining from Shuoyue, he tells him "It's quite a shame," and that he "was fooled by lies" and had his cultivation sealed (ch 99); when JGY assures him that he'll let him and NHS go without harm when the time comes, he asks if he should believe him (ch 100); when JGY asks if LXC isn't going to ask him /why/ he set the fire (since it wasn't entirely to erace the traces), we have this important excerpt (ch 105):

“In the past, it was not that I did not know what you did, but that I believed you had your reasons behind doing them.”

He continued, “But, you have done too much. And I… no longer know if I should believe you.”

Fatigue and disappointment sunk heavily into his tone.

And then after JGY takes JL hostage (ch 106), this one:

Lan XiChen spoke slowly, “Sect Leader Jin, you lied again.”

Jin GuangYao, “Just this once. There’ll be no next time.”

Lan XiChen, “This was what you said last time. I can no longer tell which of your words are true.”

LXC asks him about the letter in the first place because "whenever he heard there might be hiddenmight hidden reasons, he just had to hear it" (ch 105); when WWX challenges him before he tends to JGY's wounds, he says "Many things still remain unanswered" (ch 108).

His upset at JGY "attacking" him is in ch 108, I think, a combination of the two—in CQL, it reads more like he's angry that JGY took an action that made him need to attack JGY than anything else, but in MDZS he experiences it as a real betrayal: "As he saw Nie HuaiSang’s expression along with the warning, he felt something in his heart go cold." Because it would have been one; it's a line that JGY hasn't crossed, and as it turns out it's a line that JGY hadn't crossed, and would never.

And lastly, after JGY's death, we have once again LXC's explicit statement of his difficulties—and while LXC's post-stabbing difficulties could be different from his pre-stabbing ones, it's at least an important consideration, and it is in line with the rest of what we see:

“… Just what does he want to do? I once thought I knew him well, and then I realized I did not. Before tonight, I thought I knew him well once more, but now I do not.” Nobody could give him an answer. Lan XiChen repeated in frustration, “Just what does he want to do?”

Looking over the evidence, he's hurt and angry that JGY would do awful things not under constraint, and about the idea that he doesn't know JGY after all/their relationship is a lie. I do think it's unlikely that he's zero percent upset about JGY contributing to NMJ's death—I tend to think they talked about if offscreen, between LXC leaving with him from Gusu and WWX finding them in the temple, and that's why LXC doesn't bring him up in the temple sequence. But whatever he's feeling, his reactions to JGY don't seem to be about his own personal grief for or relationship with NMJ, and if they /had/ been about that I think there's several moments in the temple that would have played out differently.

One last note: I see often the idea that LXC going into seclusion after JGY's death is for his grief about /both/ his sworn brothers. At this point, you're probably unsurprised to learn that I don't think the evidence supports this. Not only, again, do we have very little evidence of his personal grief for NMJ post-timeskip—ten years past NMJ's death!—even after NMJ shows up again, but there's a distinct change in him after JGY dies. Before that, he's obviously distressed, but he's still tracking and on top of things; afterwards, on the other hand, we're told that "If it were the usual ZeWu-Jun, he couldn’t have failed to fathom [what WWX was suggesting the letter be intended to cause]. But right now, it was likely he had no more space in his mind to think" (ch 109), which tracks pretty well with his absent-mindedness at the banquet a few months down the line (ch 116). Nothing about LWJ's discussion with WWX of LXC's state suggests it's at all precedented (ch 115), and in fact when LQR talks to him immediately after JGY dies, we're told that "Lan XiChen’s face was full of an unspeakable grief" and that "Lan QiRen had never seen Lan XiChen, a child he single-handedly brought up, look so agitated and discomposed" (ch 110). JGY's death is a breaking point; NMJ's death, at the time or now, simply is not.

In conclusion, while he was certainly friends with NMJ pre-Sunshot, and that is genuinely rare for LXC, they began to grow apart during Sunshot; and while LXC continued to care for NMJ, he was not at all intimate with him, and showed no sign of particularly enjoying or seeking out his company. Later, while he is certainly disturbed at the idea that JGY might have killed NMJ, this is because it suggests that he /doesn't/ know JGY after all, and his reactions to JGY then and at the temple are not driven by his personal grief for or relationship with NMJ, nor is his seclusion in any way related to his feelings for NMJ.

ETA: All quotes taken from the Exiled Rebels translation.

ETA: I discuss some critique of this by @/hqfeels here.

#ship negativity cw #ship meme #I'm done!!!#good fucking god this took me a month #that damn bingo post #long meta #profound philosophical differences #anger burned in his heart #the best of men #a gentle warmth filling the deepest of needs

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