#the writing goes so downhill in s9

[spookyrobbins]

thinking abt s9 again and it still pisses me off how much of az's experiences and disability is viewed from callie's pov (like literally at some points). like disclaimer here bc i understand that the people around an amputee are affected by it too and i understand that (esp at the time) showing callie's pov and struggles was extremely novel. but callie's pov should have been a supplement to az's, not replacing it?? bc literally every single one of az's ig accomplishments?? 1/8 – darkness anon

are seen from callie's pov. it even goes into the way they film certain scenes. (note that i am not like a professional filmmaker but i did take courses on art interp) comparing two scenes - the scene where az walks across the apartment to the door w her prosthesis and like trips and breaks shit along the way vs the "i got back up" scene which are very different scenes that occur in the same location - i noticed smth rlly interesting abt the way the audience is positioned 2/8

in the first one. there is only one portion of the scene (lasting maybe one second) where we do not see arizona in frame. in fact, most of this scene, we see arizona from her side, and at the end, we see her facing forward, toward the camera. and that's significant bc when they do that, we don't see things like the character sees it. we see it like an audience. we literally don't see az's perspective even when she is the Only character on screen. the closest we get to that in this 3/8

is the split-second frame of the vase breaking and one of the outside of the apartment, pointing to where the files bailey promised should have been. what the scene conveys isnt necessarily az's experiences, as a result, and instead is showing us the results of bailey's plan to get az walking again, which is linked back to callie's feelings abt az's response to the amputation and,, yeah. admittedly though, this scene is probably one of the most arizona centric scenes in the season. 4/8

comparing a scene with similar setting - the i got back up scene - is super interesting though, because we can see that the directors are filming az's scenes the way they are on purpose. bc that scene starts from callie's perspective and stays there for the rest of the scene. we start with the camera behind callie as she stands outside the door of the apt, and then cuts to a side/frontal angle so we can see her expression at the sound of az giggling behind the door 5/8

then she opens the door and we cut to a frontal angle so we instantly see callie's reaction to smth behind the camera and then turn around and show us what she's reacting to. compared to how they framed az opening the door in the 9x06 scene (they focus on the empty floor first and then pan up to az, emphasising the importance of the empty floor over az's reaction). and even when the camera is focused on az and sofia, it's callie's voice that we hear first and she asks if az 6/8

had a good day and then az reveals oh well i fell down and then we cut back to callie for her reaction. and then az responds w "i got back up". but the "i got back up" part? literally lasts less than a second before we cut back to callie again. and after that the cam cuts between focusing on callie and watching az and sofia from callie's pov (u can argue that the focus on callie is sofia's pov but i dont think that makes much sense? idk) but yeah. its like really weird too bc 7/8

in the same ep, they have the scene where az actually falls and its filmed so similarly to this scene in some ways and even though some of these techniques are used on az, it emphasizes alex's pov more than it does az and ugh idk. s9 irritates me in both the storyline and filming ig is the conclusion here. and uhh just realised how super long this got so like. feel free to not,, respond? like i get that this is like ridiculous and im sorry my dude 8/8

no no but you're so right. i've said it before (i think) and i'll say it again: the show disproportionately favours callie's pov over arizona's (it does this with other characters, like meredith's over derek's, but to a slightly less extreme i think) - part of this i think is bc callie was there first and arizona is written as a love interest exclusively. but the whole amputation storyline really showed this to an extreme

i also think that the amount of time spent in callie's pov is part of the reason that the cheating felt so extremely ooc/cheap emotional payoff. i've seen various places where people have said that cheating can be part of depression/ptsd/trauma (and i fully agree/believe that) and that could fit in arizona's storyline - except the audience never really saw her dealing with that. there was the stuff at the beginning of the season and then arizona seemed fine? and the challenge of arizona i think is that she's very internal and taking away teddy and mark (to an extent) sort of limited her external processes, which left the viewer thinking that arizona was doing okay. but the effect of not showing us arizona's pov is that it comes out of left field (which is you were writing not filming from callie's pov could work bc limited 3rd person) is that it just seems out of character and tawdry and you have to create miscarriages to explain her behaviour

the way they filmed/wrote 95% of calzona's scenes in s9 were focused on callie and her feelings. even scenes that on the surface seem to be about arizona are really centered on callie. like for instance the shoes before bailey's wedding. arizona is struggling with self-worth and beauty and this would be a perfect moment for arizona to have ownership in her journey - instead we get callie yelling at her about how "everything is about the leg", which i think does a disservice to arizona and also to callie's character, which has often been based around empathy (don't get me started on callie's empathy and how it relates to arizona lol) like you said, every one of arizona's moments/accomplishments is not really about her. and that was a problem with arizona's character from the start - it's never really about her - it's about other. for example: her telling callie about tim was about reassuring callie's feelings versus it being a moment to add depth to arizona's character

one more thing: i think the writers majorly screwed themselves with the amputation sl/how they approached it. in the same way that the plane crash dominated like 4 seasons on a wider scale, arizona's leg and amputation did on a smaller scale, but they set it up so poorly that it was almost unsalvageable. they wanted the pat on the back for having a disabled character, but they mismanaged the storyline so atrociously that by the time s10 rolled around they were sort of screwed and didn't know what to do with callie and arizona. it's also notable that by like what? s11 they just stop talking about arizona's leg entirely

lol my part got long too so i'll leave it here

[wolfwhiteflowers]

S10 sdcc trailer rant 

(similar to my other rants) Before the trailer was shown, idk what to expect on s10. Ok more like I still don’t trust the writers. I still get like invested on this show.

 It’s hard to quit and to stick only with headcanons, when the show is still going on and it sometimes not be so bad in a overall story-way.  (quitting ouat show was easier to do.) I value story and in character stories and following the protagonists and their main story arcs. But ukno TWD isn’t the same anymore. Since Carl died, but it was still ok because Rick is still alive and that TWD imo is about Rick&/or Carl’s story. But, Rick isn’t in the show but in movies.  Anyway, the writers sometimes still be true or still be IMO what I think is right for the story in the TWD show, but also lack a lot of potential moments. So it’s why it’s hard to quit. There are some things going well. It’s frustrating. I want this show to end good and end it like yesterday/ s7. The other frustrating thing is how AMC tease fans with movie news, Lincoln leaving, etc with hundred articles of the same thing. There’s so much stringing fans along from TWD franchise. Fandom is tired!

Ok I have this expectation or wish on how the show/movie TWD will end and I think writers/gimple are thinking similar the same way I am. But idk it’s a 16 ep season story idk what to expect and I don’t really trust them since Kang throws out random ships and time jumps and other dumb stuff. Like she brought C/E but Carol got this new arc and is back with TF or main storyline.

Idk why I care ahh show gonna die downhill anyway. That’s depressing and frustrating. I kinda hope the show ends now and we focus on the TWD movies with the mains. I just want a ending of Rick and gang’s story!

S10 trailer thoughts - I only care about the mains. Some others too but u know the show is weak with characters’s development and having a huge cast.

Idk Caryl being bffs, we already know that. It’s also was very much like the comics between Rick and Michonne which they only stayed as friends. So it’s weird. I wish Caryl said it differently but it looked more like flirting. And with Carol I guess she’s been away for awhile in idk Oceanside? I guess it’s ok if it makes her story interesting and make sense. I still want her with team family but seems like she still is or part of the main storyline, in s10. If she’s seeing ghost Henry and stuff maybe she’s taking comic-Michonne’s storyline from the Telltale game?

I want the TWD story to end well and including for characters stories. I’m really nervous about Michonne. Sigh it’s just like with Rick wtf. Is she gonna die on the show? Are writers gonna destroy her and make her OOC by kissing/being with Zeke? Is she gonna be in the movies and if there’s those dumb ships happening, does it mean the movies be wack too ( with dumb love triangles or Rick/Jadis shit).* Seeing bad writing while some areas like Caryl doing fine, I still worry that bad writing happening elsewhere like what they did with carzekiel, Carl dying, minor characters not developing well. Seeing that kiss was so gross. Richonne is the power couple and part of this main/Grimes storyline in the show. Last scene of Richonne was so beautiful and seeing M/E kiss is like tainting it. tainting the story’s ending. It doesn’t make sense for Michonne to do that in s10 and not in the rest of s9. Like she was still in love and grieving on Rick for 6 years even though she thinks he died. And wtf lol Zeke? Ya so now the haters know what Carylers felt I guess. Tho it’s worse cos  M/E talked like once in s9 and yeah. However maybe the kiss was a one time thing or so. Maybe they’re both grieving and kinda using each other’s company? I’ll be fine with it if it’s some crazy angsty storyline. Obviously they’re not endgame. If they are, fandom only remembers Richonne. Oh I just realized this dumb plot kinda reminds me of comic Michonne. She is like stuck in this misery way with boyfriends like that in most of comics till she found her peace by finally finding her daughter. ‘finding her daughter’ is something I think  tv-Michonne would do later on, trying to find Rick. Maybe Kang wants to write like that? Boat ? Maybe she goes on a boat to find Rick? I want Richonne/Grimes reunion! Sigh.

Sigh! I don’t want this stress and worry on it. It’s not exciting and fun anymore. It like putting salt on my wounds. Gosh can this show end!

===========

After thinking about the trailer and fandom things, I feel a bit better. Cast hates M/E and I think is highly possible Danai will be in the movies or one of them therefore Michonne doesn’t die in s10.

And that Kang loves to add random ships (but it might not be so bad afterwards??) and I still don’t trust writers. gahhhh

[aceofwands]

just reblogged a bunch of other replies with more info about this, but gotta say - damn I love this tea ☕

without fail, every time a show has choppy writing quality - or in the case of Stargate, goes wildly downhill - it always ends up being due to some behind the scenes fuckery

so it's incredibly unsurprising to me that all this was going on considering the absolute nosedive in quality in s4-5 of SGA and s9-10 of SG1, not to mention literally all of SGU lmao - let alone their consistently shitty treatment of female characters and characters of colour from the start right up until the end

the fact that they're now trying to sell Amazon on producing a new Stargate series based on the ~ original show writers ~ being involved as a draw to the fans is actually kind of hilarious when you think about it, like ummm, those same writers who steered their franchise off a cliff a decade ago by not caring what their fans enjoyed about their own show? by not treating their actors with enough respect to give their characters proper backstories or story arcs? who accused their fans of 'sabotaging' their new show to get SGA back (imagine hating the people who loved something you made that much) instead of realising themselves that it was hot garbage and they'd fucked up?

have any of them even acknowledged their mistakes from that time?? (or that the entire idea of SGU was a mistake) lol not to my knowledge

like lmao it was only last month that Mallozzi shared those godawful season 6 ideas on Twitter that were so abysmally stupid I was relieved the show had been cancelled (and don't even get me started on the plot of the planned SGA movie lol) - like seriously, their mid-season and end of the series ideas were "Somehow, Palpatine has returned" levels of bad

What is the sga debacle?? Did he do something specific?? I only know that he also made the shows Dark Matter and Utopia Falls which both have diversity and representation so that makes me hopeful for the same treatment in a new stargate series.

hi! whew im so sorry im just getting to this lmfao. truthfully ive been rly busy and this is such a serious topic that i wanted to make sure i chose my words carefully and laid everything out in the best way possible. 

disclaimer section! im not the best person to speak on this topic ahha. I just got into the fandom last year and it was only a few months ago that i started to hear some of these issues that existed previously (so if any veteran stargate fans wanna hop in on this and explain things in greater detail, please do)! also this is not a call out post or canceling thing. this is simply a hey-these-things-happened-and-maybe-we-should-be-careful-with-who-we-interact-with-and-trust type thing. anyways without further ado, here’s some of the sketchy shit that went down behind the scenes of stargate atlantis! (all sources are posted in the comment/replies btw)

> let’s start with the decision to kill off carson beckett because thats where the first weird comment pops up. now a lot of people claim that this was a move made by writers & producers to shake up the show and “make the actors feel less secure.” i’ve never been able to find that direct quote although ive heard people say that someone openly admitted it on the audio commentary/bonus features on the atlantis dvds soo take that however you like aha.

> after the sudden exit of paul mcgillion, tori higginson left the show a few episodes later anddddd ok this is where things escalate. this is an interview she gave where she openly talks about everything that went on behind the scenes. but to summarize, the writers ignored all of her input and refused to grow the character further when she had clearly outgrown the “Hammond” role. joseph mallozzi states in his blog post that brad wright himself was very fond and loved the weir character and he claims that the decision to write her out was because of “just simple logic.”(1) however, torri tells a different story. (2) 

“Honestly? I found that quite shitty, to be honest (laughs).Oops. But I found out, because I kept going to them, I kept going up to them saying ‘I have a feeling my character, you’re not doing anything with me, and you guys have me for six years and I don’t want to, you know, be here not doing anything. Let me know what’s going on.’ And they kept saying “no, no, no, it’s great. We love you. We love you. Things can be great.’ And I said ‘well, if that’s the case, can we do something with her’ and they kept reassuring me that nothing - and the very last day of filming season three, as I finished filming the last scene on the last day I was called up to the office and was told that my character was going to become recurring if I chose to be. So, I thought that was not very, um, dignified, way to deal with it, and I was a bit surprised. So I was—so my reaction was one of yeah, I was a little bit surprised. I was a little bit upset by how it was dealt with. But I wasn’t upset at the decision because I understood it. I kept going to them saying ‘I get, I get what’s going to happen, just give me some notice so I can pack my apartment and move back to L.A. Really. So I wasn’t upset with the decision. I was upset with how it was handled.”

she was led on and told her role would be reduced after the filming of season three which is uh. absolutely insane to think about considering she’s the main female lead of the show. And this is just my personal opinion but i think its interesting timing that as soon as brad stepped down, joseph mallozzi and his writing partner, paul mullie got rid of her. It’s also pretty telling that there was some bad blood behind the scenes because she didn’t even reprise her character in season five for the ghost in the machine aka the episode where they “kill elizabeth” off. although i do wanna mention that since then, jm has posted that he believes elizabeth would actually still be alive today and is just in stasis somewhere waiting to be found …which is nice. i guess. maybe they shouldn’t have fired her in the first place but hey whatever. 

and to end the torri section, here’s another quote that i think is the real reason she was let go from atlantis.

Question: And now Amanda Tapping seems to be doing exactly the same… just filing an episode. Torri said “Well, no. I understand that it’s a club, and you know, some people.. .you know. I think they didn’t like me constantly rapping on the doors saying ‘excuse me, why aren’t there any women writers or any women producers on the show?’ I think it bothered them. And so, Amanda, bless her, just had a kid so... bless her, man, she needs that gig more than [me]… you know what I mean? So I have no issues with any of them. I understand how it works. It is a bit of a political game and… I’m not very good at politics (laughs). I’m like Weir. I just want to act.”

> now this is where the joe flanigan of it all starts to come in. he’s been vocal about defending torri higginson and openly saying how bad of a decision it was to kill her off. (3) and his interview with dial the gate was enlightening on a few topics. (4)

his character didn’t get a backstory until season 3. tptb literally told him, “john likes ferris wheels” and called it a day. which is actually mind boggling. they gave him nothing to work with and somehow he turned it into gold. 

he’s also said many times and in different interviews how terrible it was that the writers carried over from sg1. the cast would pitch ideas but would be shut down because they would sound “too much like an sg1 ep” which is ridiculous considering how many atlantis scripts are just a rip off of sg1 eps anyways.

> and finally the whole whispers debacle. now i don’t really know a lot about this, so I'll just link the tumblr post that first brought this to my attention! (5) there’s also the whole “the writers stopped taking notes from the cast after season 3 and specifically started to shun joe out”  thing (which is very obvious in seasons 4 and 5) so i’ll also link another great tumblr post because they explain it so much better than i can. (6)

> there’s also the fact that once it became clear that universe was not doing well, both bw and jm turned and blamed it on atlantis and even sg1 fans.

“I don’t think if we, for any reason, go away, it is an issue necessarily of the quality of the product that we’ve been making. I think getting moved on the schedule has hurt us. And the fact that some of the fans that liked SG-1 and Atlantis were so angry that they have deliberately hurt us, which is unfortunate.” (7) Brad Wright. 

Jaso967060 writes: “Heck I think alot of people from “that other site” could be won back if some changes are made. (Finding out the Destinys Mission and the crew working together more instead of tearing each other down…and having more action…changes like that.)” 

Answer: Disagree. Given that their deluded mission statement is to see SGU cancelled in order to pave the way for an SGA return, I doubt that very much. (8) Joseph Mallozzi

this post is getting too long so i won’t go into the whole “stargate atlantis viewers were not the right demographic the writers wanted” thing. because yes this may have been said by one of the writers (i don’t have a source but so many people bring it up and it makes sense considering the type of show universe is). also joe flanigan talked about how the writers and producers disrespected atlantis fans and he sorta mentions this quote too so im gonna link it. (9) also i would just like to say huge shoutout to joe for not caring to be diplomatic lol. 

but yea. please take this post however you would like. all of this happened years and years ago so one can only hope people have learned from their mistakes. and if a fourth stargate show is ever made, I just pray they'll finally have women and poc writers/producers/directors as main contributors. also joseph mallozzi has done so many interviews with dial of the gate in recent years, so i would check those out if anyone would like to hear his current thoughts on stargate. (if you do, please message me because i would love to know if he acknowledges any of these topics ahah). 

and to end this lovely post, let's reminisce on that one time joe flanigan called the writers of atlantis “rodney mckays” <3

“Because the writers are all McKays – they are the collective Rodney McKay. It’s a whole load of little McKays running round up there in the offices.” (10)

so sorry this took a million years to respond to ahha. and i may have gotten a bit sidetracked but i hope i answered your question !!

[julystorms]

🔥 the X-files (I realize I forgot to include a topic last time so sorry about that)

{send me a 🔥 for some salt!} include a topic if you can!

The attitude within The X-Files fandom that codependency is romantic as fuck and super duper healthy is honestly revolting in its persistence and its omnipresence. It is literally everywhere.

It’s incredibly interesting to think and write about, absolutely, but it is one of the reasons I ended up gravitating toward focusing my shipping goggles on Doggett and Reyes, instead. There are some issues in their relationship, too, don’t get me wrong...but at least I don’t have to deal with tens of thousands of fanfics glorifying and romanticizing “they only have one another to depend on.” I’m sure I would have if the series had continued for another few seasons, but luckily it ended ha ha S10? it never happened and so the pairing was able to avoid the bulk of that.

I mean, this is just my personal beef with the series, but I really wanted Doggett and Reyes’s presence to dispel the whole “Mulder and Scully can only trust each other” shebang. Season 8 was starting to move toward that, with Scully telling Mulder that Doggett was a good person who was worth his time, but everything kind of went downhill from there. It could have been a great defining moment for the series to have Mulder and Scully struggling to trust and believe in Doggett, and through him, Reyes as well. 

But nah. The series catapulted itself off a cliff at the end of S9, and S10 which definitely never happened made it worse. (I am so bitter about Reyes being turned into an idiot villain character. So. Bitter.)

It really just set us right back to the middle of the series again, where Mulder and Scully can’t trust anyone in the world but themselves. And like, everyone romanticizes the shit out of it, but can you imagine being either one of these characters? Their only romantic option is the other because they’ll never be able to tell the truth or communicate fully with a human being who exists outside of the tiny world they both inhabit.

Don’t get me wrong; I certainly wasn’t shipping Doggett with Scully or Reyes with Mulder. What I wanted from Reyes and Doggett’s presence on the show was honesty and trust between Mulder & Scully and other people, proof that they were not alone/the only people in the world willing to do The Right Thing, and proof that they would still choose one another if there were others who inhabited the same headspace they did.

What we got from later seasons of TXF was a sad desperate attempt for a connection between Mulder and Scully, but what we should have had was MORE than that. I wanted to see Mulder and Scully being afraid to drag other people into their bullshit world. Scully doesn’t trust Doggett at all, but we never really get to see an internal struggle where she’s like: “I need to get rid of him because he deserves better than the kind of life I’ve resigned myself to.” This kind of attitude is never really leveled at Reyes, either, but for the love of God, it should have been!! She gets dragged into some serious bullshit at the whims of others and neither she nor Doggett are ever informed of the price they’ll have to pay until it’s too late.

Look, the way the series revolves around Mulder has always pissed me off, but the end of S9 was the biggest pile of horseshit I’ve ever seen in my entire life. We’re supposed to believe that Doggett and Reyes are going to put their lives and careers on the line for Mulder...? Bitch, please. If TXF wasn’t so busy sucking Mulder’s dick all of the time, maybe we could have seen some process there--how these characters who barely know Mulder come to the decision that breaking him out of prison when he’s on death row is a great fuckin’ idea. I MEAN A LOT IS AT STAKE WHEN YOU BREAK INTO A MILITARY PRISON LMAO. This isn’t something you do on a whim--and Doggett, especially, isn’t impulsive.

It’d be one thing if Scully was in there breaking Mulder out with them, but no, she wasn’t. Doggett goes into the prison with Skinner to break him out, risks his life and his career and his freedom to do this shit for someone who...we’ve barely seen him interact with?

Granted, I’m a writer so I can extrapolate a helluva lot and determine for myself why Doggett would risk everything for Mulder of all people, but hell, I shouldn’t have to do that.

(Bonus unpopular opinion: I bought into Kersh helping out in the “This is the Right Thing To Be Doing” sense.)

Anyway, the fans love that mid-series “the characters can’t trust or rely on anyone but each other” vibe, because they think it’s romantic.

The reality, though, is that it’s depressing and terrifying.

It’s awful to only be able to trust one person with everything; to have no other friends and no other serious relationships aside from this person you work with is scary??? I can’t even begin to describe how terrible Scully must feel sometimes, having lost a lot of good relationships over her inability to communicate honestly with her own family--all of whom love and care about her (yes, even Bill)!! But fandom in general is too busy being wrapped up in how “romantic” the whole “it’s you and me vs. the world” thing is to care. They conveniently only explore the romantic concepts instead of, you know, the shitty horrible aspects of it.

But you can’t have one without the other.

I mean, Mulder and Scully have been through hell together in the years they’ve known each other, but it’d be cool if their trauma wasn’t consistently used as romantic shipping fodder we’re supposed to ‘ooh’ and ‘aww’ over. Especially when the series showed us that Mulder and Scully aren’t the only people in the entire world who are willing to risk themselves to do the right thing.