#the way they figure in the medieval *ideal* and in his stories xd

[edennill-archived]

I read a generally good fantasy-related article yesterday, but the author really lost credit with me with his conflation of the messages Tolkien espoused in writing and his political stances in real life.

[haljathefangirlcat]

Last ask for today, but I personally prefer Norse sources for the first half (The Murder) of the Volsung-Nibelung-Dietrich cycle, and the continental German stuff for the second half (The Revenge). It just feels more colorful that way. Siegfried is mostly a flat character because he falls into the medieval ideal knight archetype where he's unquestionably loyal even when helping his lord do questionable things, is brave and courteous and chaste, and his more mythical exploits are glossed over in favor of showing him helping his lord win wars, or somehow falling victim to his wife's arrogance and becoming hurt or humiliated. There's also revisionist writers who portray him as a violent brute out of disillusionment with the idealization of the Middle Ages. On the other hand, Sigurd is a more colorful character who gets quirkier moments in his stories. Both his maternal uncle and Brynhild herself tell him that he's destined to betray his first love, and his reaction both times is to swear up and down that this would never happen and he must be an idiot if he does what they say he'll do, and then after a moment of reflection, to resign himself to fate and decide to soldier on. He even tells Gripir he knows his uncle would tell him something happier if he could. There's moments in his conversations with both Fafnir and Reginn where he randomly spouts off philosophy in "well actually..." moments. Fafnir calls him an idiot to his face. And the moment I find the funniest is when Brynhild refuses to elope with him and tells him what's done is done, he'll die for her offended honor, and she'll die for his love, he gets so sad that he literally flexes his shirt and armor off. And in the same scene, Brynhild is very obviously polishing a dagger and presumably making threatening motions at him. Norse Sigurd is just really entertaining, in addition to being brave and pure-hearted and loyal.

Also you get more info on Sigurd and Brynhild's backstories and families in Scandinavia, but conversely, more info on the Burgundians and also Dietrich in the Continental German material.

(I meant to answer these this yesterday... but then, real life got a little too hectic for a moment, so here were are now. ^^)

Tbh? I totally get that. The Nibelungenlied is my fave version of the story, but even if I think there's some cool, interesting stuff in the first half of the poem and the second wouldn't read as well as it does in not for the mess there... in the end, I still prefer the second one. XD And yeah, I think for me, too, the differences between Sigurd and Siegfried figure heavily into that.

I actually kind like the sort of aura of mystery that forms around Siegfried as we mostly hear about his heroic deeds before coming to Worms rather than seeing him in action, but the impact of watching Sigurd as he grows up and faces his own family's history, Fafnir, Regin's betrayal, and finally the knowledge of his own destiny is certainly different. It's like we meet Siegfried as a mostly fully-formed character, and if anything, we then get to find out if he lives up to his reputation or not... while with Sigurd, we're there for the whole journey, rise and fall, getting to know him and what he does and feels a lot better.

Plus, to me Sigurd is just... way more likeable, from a modern perspective. Like, sure, Siegfried is the brave, honorable knight who's kind of a model for the perfect knight and gets dragged to his own tragedy, if not quite kicking and screaming, at least while showing a certain reluctance, by all the unreasonable, demanding, arrogant people around him, including those pesky women with all their petty drama. But the only places in the poem where I actually find myself liking him are his early courtship of Kriemhild (were both of them read as being in the throes of a shy, puppy love teen crush in a rather adorable way) and his death scene, where he shows there really is something genuinely noble in him by having his last words be about Kriemhild, her suffering, and a plea for Gunther to treat her well. But there's plenty of other scenes where it's difficult not to go "if you're so good and great, why are you doing this?", or "if you're so wise and just and you know this is wrong, why are you letting yourself be talked into it?", and "the mental disconnect when you pull this kind of shit but the narrator keeps praising you anyway is incredible" at him.

Sigurd, at least, has destiny and magical potions working against him even while he himself would actually much rather do the right thing, and his attitude when confronted with how his story will end no matter what is far easier to sympathize with. And as you said, other characters are allowed to spurn him, or even insult him to his face, and still have a point. And he can react to that in some very entertaining ways. XD

I actually do like darker take on Siegfried digging into all the ways he's much less of an ideal figure when looking at his actions from a modern point of view, but I'll say that it's fine balance between that and making him just some tiring one-note villain. I think Wolfgang Hohlbein does it very well in his novel Hagen of Tronje: his Siegfried is violent and creepy and treacherous and kind of generally sleazy (and his nebulous past and connection to the supernatural world are used to their full potential to make him even more unsettling!) but rather than being simply some "all brawns, no brains" brute, he's also very smart and politically savvy and even kind of honorable, even if in his own way, and he still has a certain youthful vulnerability about him. And on the other hand, Hohlbein's Hagen and Gunther have their hearts in the right place, but that doesn't mean they're perfect or they go about everything in just the right way... far from it, really.

And yeah, you can really see the shift in focus from one tradition to another, lol.

[mythopoeticreality]

For the reader asks: What do you wish more authors in your fandom would write about?, - What reader or write do you think most deserves a high five?, and Tell me a headcanon (and who you wish would write it)?

Ohh! Awesome! Just the questions I wanted to answer too! xD Thank you, you wonderful nonnie for sending me these!^^ I umm…I might get a bit long-winded here so bear with me….>.>

What do you wish more authors in your fandom would write about?

Oh dear…you just gave me free reign here to give you my fannish wish-list anon. Do you realize what you’ve done?!

Okay, no but, these are some of the ideas and characters I’ve most wanted to see more explored for such a long time now, so this might get a bit long as I’ve been thinking about some of these things for so long, so…let’s split this up by fandom:

Silmarillon/Tolkien:

More Tinfang please, definately! Probably my most obscure fav here,but he has so much potential? I mean, he’s this haf-fey pied-piper type figure and I just need like…all of the fic of him outwitting orcs and robin-hooding it up across Beleriand just basically ruining Morgoth’s day in his own small ways xD I love the idea of Tinfang being this folklorish figure amongst the elves, and I’d love to see more of that.

On that note: More Middle Earth Fairy Lore in general. Yeah I know most of this stuff is only half-canonical at best and pretty obscure, coming from the Book of Lost Tales, but still, it’s just fun? Again, I love the idea of elvish folklore, especially pre-Valarin folklore and I’d love to see more of it, and incorporating some of these older Lost Tales era ideas is such a great way to do it? Besides, the addition of fairies answers an age old question in Tolkien Fandom:

“…they were born before the world and are older than its oldest, and are not of it, but laugh at it much, for had they not somewhat to do with its making, so that it is for the most part a play for them…”

TELL ME THAT DOESN’T SOUND LIKE TOM BOMBADIL TO YOU!?! Case closed. Tom Bombadil is a Fairy.

Asside from Tinfang and Fairy lore, however, There are a couple of things I’d love to see more of in this fandom as well.

More Amlach would always be a blessing.I don’t really see why he is so often overlooked as a character either. Here’s this guy, he’s like, ‘Okay, I’m maybe not so cool with these Elves dragging us into this war of theirs that I certainly didn’t  sign on for’  but then Morgoth comes along, and sends one of his servants to impersonate him while he’s away. Amlach finds out is all ‘What?! You stole my face?! Oh it’s personal, now…” and then goes to find Maedhros and becomes one of his vassals to fight against Morgoth. He has to be one of my favorite Men in the Legendarium, and I can’t help but picture his relationship with Maedhros to be just…so full of snark. He’s not awed by these elves after all, he’s just here because Morgoth’s an asshole. Honestly, I can’t help but feel that if Amlach feels like Maedhros is wrong about something he will speak up about it. And..Maedhros actually appreciates that? Amlach’s honesty, I mean, maybe not the snark all the time xD I just want to see more of that relationship, and it’s development, blossoming into some kind of respect and friendship between the two. Basically Amlach is awesome and I want more of him.

Finally, I’d love to see more Eönwë/Mairon stuff? This is my ship! The whole tragic lovers-to-enemies dynamic that they could have going? Those moments where Sauron came begging to Eönwë at the end of the War of Wrath and things almost, almost looked like things could have been reconciled, where everything stood on a knife-blade and a held breath? YES, I am here for that. And yeah, I’m a sucker for redemption fics, so I’m here for AU’s where Sauron actually did turn around and seek the Valar’s forgiveness as well.

Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell:

*slams fist on table* More JSMN Crossovers! I mean, the King’s Roads literally go everywhere, and I can’t be the only one who sees the potential there! You’ve got all of fiction and reality open to you! For instance: 

Send Childermass off on the King’s Roads exploring Faerie and Looking for a way to read Vinculus, and have him stumble on into the DC Universe to run into John Constantine! They can be Snarky Northern Bastards together and deal with Fairies and Demons and Magic! 

Have John Uskglass wander into Wizarding New York in 1926 and meet Credence Barebone! Can you imagine what that would be like? The Raven King meeting this orphan kid who grew up in pretty much the exact opposite situation to himself, In a world where magic is kept a secret, and who had to spend his life suppressing this magic he had? What would be going through John’s head in that moment? What would be going through Credence’s? Can the Raven King take Credence under his wing, get himself a new apprentice? He should. That would be really cool. 

Oh, or what about Strange and Norrell while they’re trapped in the Pillar of Darkness? Send them to Valinor! Imagine the reactions of the Elves and the Valar at the approach of this huge Tower of Midnight. What New Sorcery of Morgoth’s is this? Is this the arrival of some new evil into their realm, like Ungoliant? Imagine this army of Elven warriors – the very same ones that Durring the War of Wrath fought to take down the source of all evil in Middle Earth – all lining up and preparing for battle…only to discover a pair of fondly squabbling academics

Or you know what? We don’t even need the King’s roads for crossovers! One of the things I’ve been most wanting to see in this fandom is a Sandman/JSMN crossover just…focusing on the relationship between Uskers and Morpheus? Like, I could totally see Oberon’s Favorite Foster Son as having encountered the Lord Shaper over here during his time in Faerie? And just, as a being of Faerie, as a Magician, as a Legend in and of himself, he totally has this connection to Dream? And honestly….why wouldn’t I want to see these two being Melodramatic and Goth and Awesome together? I’d really love to see how they’d interact. (Crossovers involving Daniel would *also* be amazing too of course and I’d really love to see John dealing with the feelings of knowing but not knowing Daniel, of interacting with someone who is at the same time so much older and so much younger than himself. How weird does it have to get to begin to stretch at even the Raven King’s own standards for what is “normal?”) 

Other crossovers I’d like to see: John Segundus and Arthur Weasley hanging out because that would be just…the most adorable thing. And Also Henry Lascelles and Lucius Malfoy, because they just kind of deserve one another really xD

Asside from Crossovers I’d really love to read more things focusing on just the general history and world building in JSMN? I want to see like, the effects of magic on things like the Interregnum and the Restoration! I want to see what sort of History Play Shakespere wrote about John Uskglass and How opening night went! (You Know the Raven King showed up,watching from the shadows. You just know it.) I want to see Isaac Newton as a Magician, dammit! (speaking of that last one I got this lovely fic around Christmas Time about that very thing and I am eternally greatful for it, and y’all should go read it)

And honestly, more fics about the Aurate Magicians and John Uskglass would be amazing? I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: I want an entire series of novels dedicated to the Aurate era of Magic. I want *all* of the medieval politics and drama. How does John Uskglass interact with say…Emperess Matilda or Henry V? How does magic change things and introduce new issues that have to be delt with? Also…the characters of this time period just *fascinate* me. Yeah, John Uskglass, but also Thomas of Dundale? William of Lanchester? Catherine of Winchester? Donata Torrel and Margaret Ford and their troop of women magicians? Thomas Godbless? Walter De Chepe? Lookit. I just need *all* of the stories about the Aurates.

Oh, and one more thing: No 80′s AU JSMN fandom? I am Dissapoint. I need John Uskglass hanging out in Le Phonographique as is only his natural habitat ;P 

What reader or writer do you think most deserves a high five? 

But there are so many awesome people in both my fandoms? I mean Just going off of the top of my head…

@jordenspuls and @somepallings just seem like all around really cool people and it’s always a delight to see their back-and-forth crossing my dash (even if most of the time I’m too much an awkward nerd to say anything myself) Not only that but they’re also really awesome writers and if you like Johnsquared you should definitely check out both of their work!^^

@ohveda is also super-cool and is also an awesome writer, especially– again – if you like Johnsquared. Also, it always makes me smile when I see a comment on one of my metas, because we’ve always had nice discussion in the past. 

Of course I’ve gotta mention @regshoe here, for loving the Raven King as much I do, for always being an awesome person to talk to and for writing such amazing fic as well as comments in my own stories.

And on that same note, theseatheseatheopensea is another amazing writer in JSMN fandom (seriously, the writing is just georgous. Go read that Isaac Newton story.) and always leaves such lovely comments in my fic as well!^^

Finally, @thearrogantemu and @prackspoor have both written some of my favorite Silm fics.

Tell me a headcanon (and who you wish would write it)? 

Okay, so for most of my headcanons and ideas I don’t actually have an ideal writer in mind for any of them. I’d just really love to see what would happen if anyone took them up and ran with them.

That said, because I cannot provide any actual writers for these headcanons, I will give three each from each fandom to make up for it 8D

The Silmarillion/Tolkien:

  More Fairy Lore from Arda: Before encountering the Valar the elves would often leave out small offerings to appease the fairies and spirits of Middle-Earth. A few berries, a piece of meat from a good hunt, a dish of milk left out on the doorstep. After meeting Oromë and going to Valinor, the offerings became more craft-oriented and were said to be for the Valar, rather than the Fairies. Many – especially amongst the Vanyar – stopped leaving out offerings all together, seeing them as relics of the misunderstandings of the past, too pagan a tradition to continue with. MírielÞerindë, however did continue to leave out small scraps of brightly embroidered fabric as a tribute to Vairë whenever she began a new project. Fëanor continues on in this tradition, leaving a small wire spiral out on his workbench whenever he starts something new – not for the Valar or to keep the Fairies from interfering – but as a tribute to his mother.

Curufin is actually the best rider and horsemen amongst his brothers and taught Celebrimbor to ride 

Arien and Sauron were actually really close before Sauron’s eventual betrayal. Being some of the few Fire-spirits who remained on the side of the valar gave them a particular bond, and  Mairon was someone for Arien to turn to when the feelings of grief and betrayal that her brothers – The Balrogs – left her with grew to heavy. Well that was untill…

Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell:

Catherine of Winchester actually didn’t start out as a particularly impressive Magician. Actually, if anything, magic was fairly difficult for her at first. Where she was impressive was in her dedication to her craft, and her shear stubbornness in it’s pursuit was what actually impressed the Raven King enough to take her on as a student (this one is actually a fairly new headcanon for me, but there is something about the idea that I find so appealing…)

Thomas of Dundale is actually a huge nerd when it comes to Arthuriana and tales of Chivalry. He was actually kind of having a bit of a fanboy freakout when he first learned Chrétien de Troyes wrote a song about him. xD More seriously though, tales of Knights and Brave Deeds were what he grew up on before being stolen away to Faerie, and during late nights in the Brugh, when neither of them could sleep, Thomas would keep both himself and John entertained with the old stories his nurse used to tell him. Sometimes he even thinks of himself and John as a kind of reversed Arthur and Merlin. 

William of Lanchester was actually one of the Raven King’s apprentices in his youth. That first week within John Uskglass’s company was one of the most frustrating experiences in William’s life, and by the end of it he well and truely hated John Uskglass and his particular manner of doing things. It was just so much the opposite to William’s own approach? He swallowed it down and pushed on anyway, because he did want to learn, but he ranted to Thomas (who he got on with brilliantly from the start) a lot about John during those early years of their relationship. Thomas helped him stick it out, Thomas gave him space to vent and honestly? Thomas helped smooth things over between William and John when they clashed the most. “He takes growing used to. But he’ll grow on you, if given a chance.” Thomas would say to him. William would just scoff. “Yes. Like a fungus.” Yet by the end of his apprenticeship, William found himself as one of the Raven King’s most trusted advisers and closest friends – and the thing that surprised William the most? When he realized it, he wasn’t surprised at all.