#the way I can tell the demographics of the fandom has gotten younger just by looking at ao3

[starrycomics]

So I first got into comics and the Batman fandom during the height of my Teen Tumblr Years, around 2012-2016, and the fandom had a fairly specific vibe - a little niche, mostly sprung out of the Young Justice Fandom, very focused on complaining about the New 52

I’ve finally gotten back into comics this year (because I actually have disposable income now lol), and yes the fandom felt bigger and more sprawling, but I didn’t quite comprehend how much bigger until I decided to compare how many fics were tagged under the Batman fandom when I was reading as a teen

Versus now

That’s a WHOLE 100,000 NEW FICS??? And seemingly most of them written during the pandemic????

Like no wonder it seems like there’s more drama and infighting, there’s so many more people!! It also explains the shift in, shall we say, fandom norms and accepted tropes in Batfandom spaces, but that’s a whole other thing

[thestrangestthing89]

It's really disturbing to me how many people are willing to force a romantic relationship on two people simply because they were kind to each other (occasionally). Mike being nice to El in S1 isn't enough of an indication of a crush. It's the bare minimum of human interaction. It's one of the many things that get overlooked when people are insisting Mike and El actually had romantic feelings for each other/a crush on each other. This is simply not enough of a reason to ship two people together. It's not enough to hold any kind of relationship together. Spending a couple days together in a high stress situation doesn't form a romantic relationship. And just because they are cute kids doesn't mean you are supposed to ship them. Of course they are cute. They are kids. All of the kids on this show are cute. Not only that, but I love how it just gets completely ignored that Mike and El have been referred to each other as family members since the beginning. There are repeated references to them being siblings and cousins along with multiple comparisons throughout the series to Mike with Hopper and Brenner.

The Duffers never wanted people to ship this. They have even said they were surprised people did. The most hilarious thing to me is when people ignore how they were compared to Eliot and ET. It's platonic. It was always platonic. Just because they put Mike and El next to each other on a couple of posters doesn't mean they were trying to emphasize a romantic relationship. They were trying to emphasize they are the main characters - or at least the main focus of the plot along with Will. Not to mention how they haven't done this in a while. They were worried that the show wouldn't be watched if Mike and El weren't together which I think is also why they sometimes put them on posters. But seriously there aren't a lot of these and Finn and Millie have barely done any promotional things just the two of them. This is different than Finn and Noah not doing promotional things together - that relationship is a secret. But Mike and El were out in the open and they still barely promoted it. They thought people would hate S2 because they weren't together. But that didn't happen. Instead when they are together in S3 most of the adult audience (their intended demographic) couldn't stand that relationship. They went out of their way to make sure people found it annoying.

The writers and the cast have admitted at various times that they felt pressured to promote that relationship. There wasn't supposed to be a kiss at the end of S2 but the Duffers said they felt pressure to add it. Millie has said the fans make her feel like she has to promote mileven. Finn is annoyed anytime the subject comes up. They hate this. They have never liked this relationship and they do everything they can to show people why they shouldn't be supporting it.

All this to say that so many people have convinced themselves that their head canons about Mike having a crush on her in the early days are true. And it's going to lead to a lot of pissed off people who won't admit that they just misunderstood the story when season 5 comes out. I think it really warps peoples perceptions of the show that fandom sites aren't very active right now. There are a lot of younger people on these sites posting regularly and it's creating this false sense of assurance when people agree with head canons. And I think a lot of people are projecting themselves onto the characters, which up to a point is fine. It's fine to find some aspects of characters relatable. But forcing these character to be like you and getting pissed when people point out something isn't accurate isn't you expressing your creativity. It's not being able to tell the difference between a fun, harmless head canon and the actual narrative. They are separate things.

Some of these head canons have gotten so out of control it doesn't seem like people even remember the actual story anymore, they just remember other theories and fan fiction. And honestly some of them range from completely random to flat out crazy (I'm mostly referring to relationship/character stuff here not theories about the supernatural plot. I feel like any random theory here is valid because the writers are making up this world).

But the intended demographic is adults and while a lot of them may not be posting on this site regularly, I guarantee you most of them don't think Mike ever had a crush on El. Most people are so annoyed with that relationship - because that is the way they wrote it. They want people to be done with it. And more of those people are going to come on this site when promotional stuff starts amping up only to get threatened out of it because people can't handle being corrected.

I say this as a millennial and someone who is a part of the target audience. The writers are not trying to promote that relationship. They never were. Because no emotionally mature adult actually likes it. It's been the younger fan base that always fixated on that relationship and the writers were surprised they even watched the show.

I'm starting to feel like by the time the final season comes out, I'm going to come on here ready to excitedly talk about the show only to find people upset because their theories weren't true. And it's mainly the people who are hurling around terms like misogyny, ableism, biphobia, etc anytime someone points out their theories don't add up with canon evidence. You can pretty much guarantee anyone immediately saying those terms (and usually using them incorrectly) in the face of mild criticism wasn't mature enough to be watching the show in the first place.

This isn't a teen show. It never was. It was never the Mike and El show and it wasn't ever about their relationship.

[dropintomanga]

On Kodansha US’s New Tagline

One of the North American manga publishers recently got a new revamp as Kodansha Comics became consolidated into a more centralized Kodansha with a new logo and also a new tagline.

That new tagline is “Inspire Impossible Stories.” I know for most fans, taglines are taglines. But I’m somehow emotionally drawn to it due to my own relationship with Kodansha-published manga series for more than a decade.

Where do I start with this? I think the 1st Kodansha series I ever truly read was Chobits when Tokyopop released it back in the day. But the first actual Kodansha-published series that really drew my interest was Great Teacher Onizuka. After watching all of the anime in the early 2000s’, I jumped in on the Tokyopop volumes. I still consider GTO to be one of the best “high school teacher” anime/manga series of all-time. Now that I think about it, GTO did something very notable and maybe impossible compared to a typical Shonen Jump story. It was a story about a former young adult gangster who decided to be a teacher in a high school class full of troublemakers. GTO went deep into real-life issues plaguing youth in high school. It made caring about the mental health of youth a thing before it really became a thing this past decade.

Also, I just remembered that Initial D (which is another Kodansha title) was a series I loved when I was a young adult. This is starting to sound like a Tokyopop appreciation post, but I know who the real MVP is here.

I remember a famous line in Gintama about Kodansha’s Weekly Shonen Magazine. There’s a code in the Shinsengumi that states all members should read Magazine instead of Jump. 

“Shinsengumi Regulation #17: No manga other than (Weekly Shonen) Magazine are allowed to be read within the confines of the station.'”

While it’s a joke poking fun at Magazine for publishing stories about delinquents and appealing more to older youth/young adults, it felt like Jump was for babies.

I browsed issues of Shonen Magazine in the past at a Japanese comfort food restaurant many years ago and it was full of series that I didn’t recognize or couldn’t get into. I did recognize a few titles like Fairy Tail and Air Gear, but the fact that it also had pin-up girls on their covers from time-to-time made me realize that Magazine was different from Jump. I remember one issue had a large fan poll on which AKB48 girl was the best.

A few years ago, Kodansha interviewed Hiroya Oku of GANTZ fame, who drew Inuyashiki for Kodansha’s Evening (a seinen manga magazine). When asked about how he came up with the idea of having a robotic alien superhero in the form of an old man, Oku mentions his former publisher, Shueisha, while describing his initial thought process. He says,

“When I was working on GANTZ on Shueisha’s Young Jump Magazine, I was more concerned about the popularity and sales figures of my manga. In that magazine’s culture, there’s an unspoken rule to make the main characters visually attractive. When I started work for Kodansha’s Evening (the magazine Inuyashiki is published in), there was more freedom. So I suggested going with the not-so-good-looking teenager as a main character. They green-lit the idea, so I started drawing the character in the manga.”

Let me put this out before we go a bit further - I love Shueisha manga series. I grew up on Shonen Jump. Their material always seems to captivate me somehow. They kept me interested in shonen for a long time. But because the fact shonen is the mainstream genre, I might get sick of it when the time comes. It’s why I also started following Young Jump series since they sounded more appealing. However, I do notice that with series like Tokyo Ghoul, Kingdom and Golden Kamuy, to name a few, the magazine is filled with stylish-looking characters that have greater appeal to a younger audience despite whatever mature tones they have.

But when it comes to Kodansha, their manga series are mature from the start and I don’t mean in a fanservice kind of way. Can you see series like A Silent Voice or Your Lie in April published in Shonen Jump or one of Shueisha’s other notable magazines? I'm not sure I can. It’s also noted that Hajime Isayama, creator of Attack on Titan, tried to get his series into Shonen Jump. Shueisha thought the series was a bit too dark for their tastes, and Isayama decided to try out for Kodansha instead and that’s where he’s been ever since as the series is published in Bessatsu Shonen Magazine.

So why appeal to that older shonen demographic? Probably because life isn’t some battle manga with friends that are there for you every step of the way. Hard work doesn’t always get rewarded. The idea of victory can also get very gray. You see more delinquents than overpowered ninjas/pirates in life. While Fairy Tail and The Seven Deadly Sins are two of Kodansha’s popular “battle manga” series ever, both series seem to subvert some of shonen’s popular tropes and/or have a certain edge to them. What’s funny is that both series involve a bar/pub/restaurant location where all the heroes meet up. Many older teens start to hang out in places like restaurants as their after-school hangouts.

There’s a lot of Kodansha series that I feel seemed impossible to tell for other publishers. I can think of titles like Tokyo Revengers, Blue Period, Land of the Lustrous, Witch Hat Atelier, Cells at Work!, Knights of Sidonia, etc. The lineup of shojo and josei titles is also incredible as well (Princess Jellyfish, Wotakoi and Chihayafuru are the best examples I can give here) Hell, Akira is a Kodansha title that’s still groundbreaking and evergreen as ever. Their tagline, “Inspire Impossible Stories,” makes sense as while it applies to their U.S. operations, a lot of job hunting students in Japan really want to work for Kodansha Japan.

While Shueisha does have a good share of its own “impossible” stories (Chainsaw Man was a title that impressed me), Shonen Jump is mainstream-friendly and safe to a certain degree. The stories I discovered through Kodansha made me realize how big the world of manga really was and what kind of stories were possible. While they may not have the biggest fandoms compared to Shonen Jump series, I can feel a certain vibe when I read Kodansha-published manga in that any mangaka working under them has their vision unleashed in a way that pleases both readers and the mangaka themselves. There might be a certain bias though as I’ve gotten to see editors from Kodansha Japan in person when they showed up for manga-related events in my area.

Kodansha showed me that there’s more to the manga world than just Jump. That’s why I love their new tag line of inspiring impossible stories. I think we need more exposure to new kinds of stories that speak to all kinds of people. I know people don’t like different stuff outside of what they usually like, but I believe those differences are beneficial in learning how to appreciate nuances in life when one gets older. Being challenged isn’t as frightening as it sounds. Those differences are trying to tell us something about ourselves. For me, it was “I really want something that isn’t about fighting super-powered villains and rivalries all the time.”

I have ambivalent feelings about my life during my 20s’, but Kodansha-published stories helped me appreciate possibility at the time when I didn’t feel there was anything to keep me going. So go on, Kodansha. Keep putting out impossible stories that are thoughtful and inspiring future generations of manga readers. Tell the world that impossible is nothing.

[nadziejastar]

It's sort of amazing the difference between the fan interpretation of RAX and how they interact in canon. In Days they're super dysfunctional, border on being toxic, and their friendship was unsustainable from the start even if they didn't realize it. In fanon they're a picture perfect family who can never be torn apart. And the KH3 went with the fan interpretation instead of acknowledging any of their issues.

I totally agree. I think the reason is that the fandom tends to be very young. It’s a big reason why Akuroku became so popular, IMO. Young teens tend to misinterpret unhealthy obsession (like Axel’s) as romance and true love. And the Sea-Salt Trio’s dysfunction also was also overlooked in a similar manner.

I gotta be honest. I feel pretty uncomfortable with the general interpretation of the Sea-Salt Trio in this fandom. It’s just so bizarre to me how Roxas and Xion’s friendship with Axel was put on such a pedestal and how his relationship with Isa was pretty much ignored by almost everyone. It’s just…amazingly unrealistic if you think about it. I think it’s a testament to how young the fans are, in general.

Axel’s relationships truly aggravate me, because he was written a LOT differently than Sora or other simplistic characters. I know that the target demographic for Kingdom Hearts is pretty young. And in the end, I think Axel’s character was a victim of that. Nomura tried to write him very authentically at first.

But his characterization was dumbed down to fit in with a largely tween/teen audience and their preferences. I don’t say that to be disparaging to younger fans or anything. But, had KH3 not been a Disney property, and had it been targeted to a slightly older audience, I think Axel and his relationships would have been handled a LOT differently.

I definitely think the Sea-Salt Trio was VERY misunderstood by the fandom. Axel has known Saïx for at least 10 years. Probably more. Even before their backstory was explained, you could tell they have been through hell together in the organization, without anyone else to trust besides each other. Axel was willing to do all of his dirty work. 

Then Axel meets Roxas and Xion. Two kids who—let’s be honest—are about on the level of your average fifth grader. Not a bad thing. They’re just very naive and childlike and he obviously can’t be 100% himself around them. Do people really think Axel is gonna replace his best friend so easily with two kids he’s known for less than a year? Apparently, yes. Let’s look how absurd it is.

Day 75

Inseparable

The Genie we met in Agrabah said he and his friend Al are "inseparable." Axel told us best friends can be inseparable even if they're not always together, but it sounded like he wasn't too sure about it himself. I thought Axel knew everything. Oh well...

At this point, Axel spent quite a while at Castle Oblivion. He hasn’t even gotten to know Roxas that well, and he’s only known Xion for a few days. It’s totally realistic that he’d say he doesn’t have a best friend. He sounds like he knows what it’s like to have a best friend, though. He just doesn’t have one anymore.

Day 96

Roxas: I just…want these days to last forever. Hanging out, the ice cream, the sunsets…

Axel: Nothing lasts forever, man. Least of all for a bunch of Nobodies. But you know, we’ll still have each other…even if things change and we can’t do this anymore.

Roxas: Yeah?

Axel: As long as we remember each other, we’ll never be apart. Got it memorized?

Roxas: Ha ha, wow, Axel. That sounded ridiculous.

Axel: What? I thought it was pretty deep.

Not even two weeks later, he’s acting all touchy-feely about the time they spend hanging out together. Roxas and Xion make fun of him because even they know they’re not really that close, lol. They hardly know each other at this point. If you read between the lines, you could tell that he was thinking about Saïx here, too.

Friends

Author: Axel

I feel like I’ve been spending more time talking to Roxas and Xion lately than my old friend, Saïx. This has to have been what it was like, friendship.

But if that wasn’t obvious enough, the report clears up all doubt. He WAS thinking about Saïx. The message I got was: Lea and Isa had a very close relationship as humans. They were the ones who were really inseparable. 

Axel misses that and, the more he remembers it, is desperate to fill the void. Every time he mentions “best friends,” it relates back to this. But this concept went “whoosh” over 90% of the fandom’s head. It baffles me. I really just don’t get it. Again, I have to think it’s due to the fact that this series skews really young. 

Day 118

You Changed, Not Me

Author: Axel

Talking to Roxas and Xion always brings back memories of my human life, back when I was a kid. It’s a weird sensation. I ought to be able to share all this with Saïx, but I just don’t feel like it anymore. It’s strange, but I’m content with just missing what’s gone. I’m not the one who changed. You did.

Anyways. Three weeks later. Axel is very hung up on the past. He sounds like a heartbroken lover (because that’s exactly what he is, if you ask me). The reason Axel spends so much time with Roxas and Xion is because Isa changed.

Day 150

Too Precious to Lose

Axel and I talked for a while about the things we can’t bear to lose. Axel thinks that for Nobodies, it’s our pasts, because that’s all we have to remember the pain of losing something. I don’t remember my past, but the idea of losing the present–Axel or Xion–scares me.

A month later. Axel comes back from Castle Oblivion yet again, and he’s even more nostalgic for the past than last time. I bet Axel’s time at C.O was gonna be featured as a blank period in BBSV2. But whatever. He couldn’t bear the thought of losing his memories of the past.

The reason Axel treasured his memories so much was because it’s all he had left after losing something. OBVIOUSLY it’s because of his relationship with Isa. I mean, duh. It implies a pretty special connection between Axel/Lea and Saïx/Isa for him to feel that way, especially considering how mean Saïx is to him.

I’m not trying to trash Axel’s feelings for Roxas and Xion, either, or make them out to be unimportant. They were important to him, for sure. But they absolutely did not reach Isa’s level of importance to him. No fucking way. Not. Even. Close. Especially not on Day 150. By the end of the story, Axel couldn’t bear to lose Roxas and Xion because they were all he had to fill the void of Isa.

That’s not to say that he didn’t care about them as friends, or that he was just using them. It just means that I don’t think Axel really would want to be “inseparable” with Roxas and Xion once he was mentally and emotionally healthy. He’d want to be friends with them, of course, but not hang out every day like Hayner, Pence, and Olette. He’s not on the same level as Roxas and Xion. And that’s fine.

Terra: Protect the things that matter… Right. My friends matter to me, too. So, I still have things that I have to protect.

To use a comparison, Riku was very important to Terra. I LOVED the connection between them. Other than Lea and Isa, one of the things I was most excited to see in KH3 was Riku and Terra reuniting (yeah…). They had a very special bond. Riku helped comfort Terra when he was down. But. Riku was NOT as important to Terra as Aqua and Ven were. Even if Terra had spent a whole year with Riku, he still wouldn’t be as important to Terra as Aqua and Ven.

Roxas and Xion being portrayed as the most important people to Axel is as ridiculous to me as Riku being portrayed as the most important person to Terra. It would be weird if 99% of the fanart out there depicted Riku as Terra’s best friend and Terra’s reunion with Riku got more spotlight in KH3 than his reunion with Ven and Aqua.

That’s how I feel about the Sea-Salt Trio. I really liked it for what it was in Days. A complex, morally grey friendship between an emotionally damaged adult and two innocent kids. But I really don’t like the overly saccharine, cutesy, cuddly, one-dimensional fandom version of it, where Axel is treated like he’s on the same level as the two teens. It’s a testament to how young the fandom is that people really thought Lea would be “meh” about reuniting with his childhood best friend who’s been possessed for 10 years, and be waaaay more excited about getting to eat ice cream with two teens every day once again. 

Day 172

What’s Love?

On my mission at Beast’s Castle, Xaldin told me about "love” and the special power it has over people. I tried to ask Axel about it, but his explanation didn’t make any sense to me. Every time I ask him about this kind of thing, he tells me I need a heart to understand. It’s like he’s dodging the questions.

Axel tolerates severe emotional abuse from his possessed best friend because he loved him back when he was normal. He copes by with his extremely shitty life by living entirely in the past, through his memories. Hanging out with two kids helps him remember his old life, back when he was happy. God, he was such a fascinating character. Such wasted potential.

Day 193

Best Friends

Xion's awake now. The three of us were gonna go get some ice cream after our mission, but she passed out again, so we had to take her home. I talked with Axel in her room until she woke up. He said the three of us were best friends—inseparable. 

Axel said he had no best friend on Day 75. Now it’s Day 193. That’s only 119 days. That’s less than four months!! He gets in a fight with Saïx, who, once again, says he’s changed. A very sore topic for Axel. Then immediately afterwards, he says these two kids are his best friends.

If I was gonna compare it to real life: Let’s say Lea and Isa were two normal high school kids who were kidnapped and raised in a gang. Axel is a 25/26 year-old former gang member. He’s got blood on his hands. He’s a good person deep down, but he’s seen a lot of shit. Then he meets these two fifth graders. This adult gang member, with tear-drop tats and everything, suddenly starts calling these two fifth graders his best friends. He wants to spend all of his time eatig ice cream and playing Minecraft with them.

If this was real life, would anyone say how cute it is that they are best friends? Two kids who he had to teach the concept of “best friends” to? NO! No, they’d say that’s unhealthy and weird and that the guy needs therapy. Because it IS unhealthy and weird. Perhaps it easier to see that as an adult. Perhaps it’s easier to see it in a romanticized way when you’re young.

The Sea-Salt Trio was, in a way, Axel forcing the label of “best friends” on two kids in an attempt to cope with the heartbreak of his loss of innocence. It did have genuine cuteness and sweetness. Of course it did. Axel was not a predator or anything. Roxas and Xion loved him. Axel loved them. But…it wasn’t as cutesy and wholesome as people make it out to be. At least not from Axel’s end. It wasn’t JUST a cute wholesome trio. 

That’s what made it so good. It was complex and grey. Axel never went against the organization, even though he could have if he really wanted to. It got to the point where he nearly killed both Roxas and Xion, just because he couldn’t bring himself to go against the organization. And the reason he couldn’t go against the organization was because of Saïx. Yes. Axel came thiiiiis close to killing both Roxas and Xion for a sociopath who treated him like shit. Their friendship was very dysfunctional and had a lot of kinks to work out.

Again, I’m not trying to denigrate the bond Axel had with Roxas and Xion. It was still genuine and sweet, in a sad and messed up way. I can still appreciate the cuteness of it.

But I hated the Sea-Salt reunion in KH3. Because it only focused on the most one-dimensional, saccharine and cutesy portrayal of them possible. They didn’t have to talk about anything. It was just instant hugging and ice cream, now they’re best friends forever. Everything played up to the max to manipulate people’s emotions. None of their issues were worked out and they had no better understanding of each other than they did at the end of Days. Honestly, even though Roxas and Xion got the red carpet treatment compared to Isa, the resolution to their trio was just as pathetic as Isa/Lea’s duo.