#the real sansa and tyrion
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Sansa doesn’t accept Sweetrobin as her suitor but she accepts Tyrion? Did you read the books? This is another nail in the ashford theory’s coffin besides the obvious fact that lady Ashford didn’t marry her suitors and valarr married another lady and soon died
you’re right, you’re right. instead sansa is going to marry sandor because dunk disturbed the tourney or whatever copium is it that you lot snort
#whe- when did I ever say sansa accepts tyrion as a suitor?#he’s literally her husband???#the narrative pushes him?????#you’re right I haven’t read the books#I just like to stir shit up in the fandom & leave#also jeez i hope valarr’s theory contemporary is not dead#that would be a real shocker#hey! wait!#anyway#I’m tired of this grandpa#anon hate mail ♥️#ashford theory#jonsa#asoiaf#anon asks t#leave me alone please leave me alone#anti sansan
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"All hail His Grace, Joffrey of Houses Baratheon and Lannister, First of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm."
Most Hated Character of all Time -> Joffrey Baratheon played by Jack Gleeson
#jack gleeson 100% understood the assignment#joffrey's death aired 10 years ago and he is still at the first place in lists of the most hated characters of all time#for real gleeson deserved 324874358934 emmys for this#joffrey baratheon#joffrey lannister#house lannister#jaime lannister#tyrion lannister#sansa stark#game of thrones#got
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I miss GoT bro
#got#game of thrones#daenerys targaryen#sansa stark#house tyrell#house stark#omg how did you know the starks are my favs??#i just realized i forgot the three eye crow brother#let's be real who cares about him#and yeah Jon snow is there too ig#cersei lannister#jaime lannister#tyrion lannister#house lannister
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another anti-dany post from someone with a sansa pfp, another blocked user 💃💅
#why are they Like That?#i say this as someone who really loves sansa#yes dany is my fav asoiaf female character but i LOVE THEM ALL#arya brienne asha arianne hell even cersei!#~i'm gonna be so pissed if the prophecy is real and confirm the targs are Special and the show is pro dany uwu~#sweetie your precious jon snow is half targ too lmao. daenerys literally woke dragons from stone#they're the prince who was promised/azor ahai/whatever we want to call it. targs are only human and as any feudal family in asoiaf#*extremely* flawed to say the least... but. these are fantasy books. the special bloodline™ deconstruction is not#'the heir to the dragon kings will go InSaNe in an astoundingly misogynistic and ableist plot twist' but#the people who will save the world - the chosen ones - are a girl in a horribly patriarchal world#and a bastard in a society that demonize them#(and obviously bran - a 'cripple' - and arya - a gnc girl - and tyrion - a dwarf - etc. too)#THAT'S the deconstruction. this is a '90 fantasy series for god's sake#val speaks#txt
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you know for as narratively bad as the last 2 (maybe 3) seasons of GOT were I got to hand it to em they did sprinkle some damned entertaining moments in there
#like. it's still not game of thrones. but some of it was still fun to watch#specifically petyr balish getting fucked up by the wolf pack#and arya at the battle of winterfell sneaking through the library. and then also her 'winter came for house frey' like like damn girl#stone COLD#also sansa and tyrion in the crypt which is what made me ship them for real and I still do to this day#it really do be having moments. most of the rest of it is dogshit from here but like at least we had fun you know.#I'm still entertained even though it's just not the story I wanted you know?
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tyrion today tyrion tomorrow tyrion forever. 4realsies
#the only PERSON in this FUCKASS KINGDOM with any FUCKASS SENSE. just watched his trial..my blood boiled...#what is new umm red wedding happened obvs. barely remembered robb was in it so idc about that. joffrey died and we#all cheered but now things are hairy for tyrion (we stopped cheering). jon did idk what daenerys did the same thing shes been doing for#three series. bran umm idk hes really into this three eyed raven dont ask me idc. theons having a rough time but again idc sawry.#the tyrells are slaying kings landing left right and centre theyre KILLING it often literally. sansa doing WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE!!#arya ill be real i dont remember where arya is going. brienne is going to look for sansa i think? idk but shes killing it..think thats#everyone think thats the round up...anyway tyrion is worth a thousand of each of the rest of them for realsies..#got
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Brienne of Frickin' Tarth!!!! best girl!! best girl brienne!!!!
Oh my god oh my god oh my god but thinking about Brienne and how she didn’t reject her femininity by choice but everyone else rejected it for her because she wasn’t conventionally attractive so the only role she felt she could fit in to in society’s eyes was that of a warrior and how she was in love with Renly because he was nice to her and danced with her and treated her how all the other girls her age were treated even if it was just for a night and how she never feels like she fits in as a woman because she’s ugly but she never fits in as a man because she isn’t a man but she can’t go back now that she knows what its like to be free from those constraints but there is still a small part of her that wonders what it would be like if maybe, just maybe… and I just… George had absolutely no right to write a character that good
#brienne of tarth#asoiaf#god i love brienne shes the absolute goddamn best character ever.#For all the obvious reasons but also her story really really really appeals to me as a trans woman.#like omg!!! shes just like me fr!!!#this post is exactly why her entire story works so well as a transfem allegory. (you put it more eloquently than i ever could have though!)#like obviously brienne herself isnt a trans woman and theres no way gurm was even thinking about it like that when he wrote it but still#that scene where she pours her heart out to the elder brother!!! i swear to god ive never felt so fucking seen#your honor! shes just like me fr!#i even get to the point where like#i find it strange that so many people think Brienne's whole thing is like amazing revolutionary characterisation written by gurm#when like these feelings of Brienne's are literally my whole entire life experience?#so her complicated relationship to her gender actually really doesnt feel very out-there or revolutionary to me??#cause its literally almost all of my own gender feelings/memories!! on paper!!#i probably might sound like a smug asshole saying that - i hope you see what i mean?? no idea if anyone else feels the same way#i probably sound like one of those weirdos whos obsessed with patrick bateman lol i promise its not like that#i just love the characters of brienne samwell arya tyrion bran sansa joncon etc etc etc theyre so so so important and special to me.#this goddamn book series man#to think i almost didnt even get into it. like i got so close to never picking up the books at all lol#i only looked into ASOIAF in the first place cause someone got my name mixed up with one of the characters lol#if not for that i might never have read it!!#real talk though im fr worried that Brienne might not survive the series#even if she doesnt though itll still all be worth it just to know her and see her in action.#a true knight fighting for whats right! no chance and no fuckin' choice baby!!!#so even if she does die defending jaime from the brotherhood or die in the long night or whatever#it will ALL be worth it. “Men's lives have meaning not their deaths."#if brienne does die in book 6 or 7 i fully trust gurm to give her the most fitting possible death for her character arc.#Doesn't mean i wont cry for weeks!!!! But still!! 100% trust in gurm that he'll deliver excellent beautiful closure for her story.#My dream is that brienne will end up making the best sweetest most wholesome sisterly friendship ever with Sansa Arya Jeyne Poole etc#and in the end she lives happily ever after in winterfell with the stark girlies their brothers and assorted friendos. And Pod of course!
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2nd year of George's Citadel - a compilation of quotes from George R.R. Martin
House Targaryen
On the construction of Daenerys and the decision to include dragons in ASOIAF
On Daenerys’ thought process in Lhazarene
On Daenerys’ struggle with rule (1)
On future revelations about the house with the red door
On what led to Robert’s rebellion
On the difference between Daenerys and Aegon’s (I) approach to the throne
On Daenerys subverting gender roles
On the information provided about Rhaegar and Lyanna in ASOIAF
On the “White Saviour” complaints over Daenerys’ storyline
On Daenerys’ future return to Westeros
On Daenerys’ struggle with rule (2)
On dragons as the ASOIAF equivalent of nuclear weapons
On the connection between dragons and the resurgence of magic
On Viserys' misunderstanding of the Dothraki
House Stark
On Sansa’s manipulation at the hands of the Small Council
On Arya and Sansa’s desire to save Ned
On what led Sandor to seek out Sansa during the Battle of Blackwater
On his regret over not further developing Sansa and Arya’s relationships with Catelyn
On what character he’d want to be like
On Ned’s inadequacy in King’s Landing
On the direwolves as metaphors and the execution of Lady
On his interest in Arya's storyline in Braavos
On his decision to center ASOIAF around a family
On consulting with people to write about Bran and Sansa’s experiences
House Lannister
On Jaime, Tyrion and loss
On Jaime’s decision to kill Bran
On feeling conflicted over the writing of Tyrion in A Dance With Dragons
On Robert being unsuspicious of the paternity of Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen
On the key event that led Roose to align with the Lannisters
On his intention writing the Lannister POV’s
On similarities between Tywin Lannister and Walter White
House Greyjoy
On the character of Reek
On Theon as a multifaceted grey character
On the Ironborn and the words of House Greyjoy
A Game Of Thrones
On the title of A Game Of Thrones
On the process of creating A Game Of Thrones (1)
On the process of creating A Game Of Thrones (2)
On the process of creating A Game Of Thrones (3)
On the process of creating A Game Of Thrones (4)
Game Of Thrones
On GOT’s decision to kill off Silver
On GOT’s decision to pair Arya and Tywin up
On Renly and Loras' relationship and their portrayal in ASOIAF vs GOT
Miscellaneous
On writing outcasts
On nihilism in ASOIAF
On unfairly hated characters
On Epic Fantasy
On his favourite characters in ASOIAF
On the greyest characters in ASOIAF
On unlikable protagonists
On the historical figures that inspired the women of ASOIAF
On father issues in ASOIAF
On the religions in ASOIAF
On creating foils
On which characters he'd like to meet in real life
On power and Varys’ riddle
On the messages and the separation between authorial views and characters' beliefs in ASOIAF
On Littlefinger and Varys' rivalry
On introducing Brienne’s POV
#if anyone would like to share their opinion on the blog#or what kind of content they'd like to see in the future#feel free to comment in the tags#or send me a message on my ask box#Compilation#George R.R. Martin#ValyrianScrolls#Game Of Thrones#ASOIAF
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#also the weird insistence to leave out sansa is. well. like if you absolutely had to do this at least make it six #bran sansa & arya are all written to closely parallel each other why would you leave out even one of them (via @branwinged)
#lbr these ppl don’t give a shitttt about bran or tyrion the whole key five thing started as a way to malign sansa #that’s all it was and then they played dumb about it like “we just like the main characters?? why do you hate main characters??” #no one hates the main characters everyone is just irritated by you performing your spite crusade as some kind of community passion (via @melrosing)
#<prev #they do nott care for bran or tyrion they just don't want the girl who reminds them of their 5th grade bully to be considered an MC (via @bastardofharrenhal)
#prev tags 100% #that's all there is to it #their weird hatred of sansa was stronger that whatever love they had for the characters they supposedly liked #in order to hold on to this key 5 idea they had to completely ignore grrm himself saying he was making shit up with that outline and #that the story had grown well beyond that #like I'd get if a show-watcher thought these were the only important characters #but not someone who has actually read the books? (via @rorygilmore)
what do you think about the idea of the main 5?
well i don't care what anyone's preferred way to engage with the series is, like, if you're mainly interested in those five characters (and are these bran enthusiasts in the room with us right now) that's fine. it's true there are certain characters that come close to occupying the narrative space of a protagonist within the series (bran, dany, and jon obvs) but i also don't care much for talk of them as the only ones that matter. how grrm outlined his original notes is not of any concern to me, i'm only engaging with the text. and the way i see it those 20+ povs are not meant to be extraneous or tangential to the larger plot, which supposedly centres around five characters. they are all intended to be in conversation with each other and with series themes at large. a question raised in davos's chapter ("If half an onion is black with rot, it is a rotten onion. A man is either good or he evil") may be answered in sam's ("When Craster's wives brought onions, he seized one eagerly. One side was black with rot, but he cut that part off with his dagger and ate the good half raw.") and then bran's chapters ("If ice can burn then love and hate can mate."—the series is about dualism, not absolutes) and claiming otherwise is doing bit of a disservice to grrm's storytelling capabilities, no?
#it was always painfully obvious too#the fact that the main promoter of the “key 5” on tumblr also happened to always leave sansa out of northern ladies gifsets#but played innocent when confronted on it -- well. we could all tell. at least she stopped pretending eventually#and yeah the straight fact is that beyond the agenda the “key 5” was always nonsense#and you knew it not just because they never cared about bran or tyrion (and the few that did found little actual support from the rest)#but because that was the only reveal of the letter that was important to them and not the other changed plot elements#(except the jon-arya romantic angst. but did tyrion's love for arya ever get cited in their insistence the letter was important? lol no)#if the key 5 is still super-important then so is tyrion burning winterfell and cat being killed by the others and evil king jaime etc etc#anyway yeah. grrm said the letter is “making up shit” and not relevant to how he actually wrote the story since nearly the day he sent it#he's talked about important characters as *all* the stark kid povs and dany and the “major” lannisters#though it should be obvious by reading the actual books who the significant characters are and their relevance to each other and the plot#the real story is what's on the printed page. not in that letter. not in the drafts found in his archive library#the real story - the full developed characters and storylines - is what you hold in your hand#and to insist otherwise is indeed a disservice (a disparagement even) of grrm's storytelling#asoiaf#grrm#grrm's proposal letter#asoiaf fandom#oh fandom#snacky's law#queue and me we're in this together now
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watch mojo top ten Lannister v children beef
10. Loras v Jaime: about as lighthearted as any of this gets
9. Tyrion v Robert Arryn: sometimes the kids do have bad vibes
8. Tywin v Robb: he got so mad he threw a tantrum and demolished Robb’s whole family (almost)
7. Jaime v Robb: he did try to kill him but also he respects him
6. Jaime & Cersei v Arya: oft forgotten latecomer. Arya doesn’t even know
5. Tyrion v Joffrey: sometimes the kids really, really do have bad vibes
4. Cersei v Sansa: a sure classic
3. Cersei v Margaery: like half the driving force of AFFC, some real beefing w a teenager going on here
2. Jaime v Bran: the original Lannister beef with a child, nobody doing it like them, etc
1. Jaime v Hermione Granger: need I say more
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-Something in Robb’s tone troubled her. She smoothed out the paper and read. Concern gave way to disbelief, then to anger, and lastly to fear.
“This is Cersei’s letter, not your sister’s,” she said when she was done. “The real message is in what Sansa does not say. All this about how kindly and gently the Lannisters are treating her… I know the sound of a threat, even whispered.
They have Sansa hostage, and they mean to keep her.”
-Lady Mormont took her hand and said, “My lady, if Cersei Lannister held two of my daughters, I would have done the same.” The Greatjon, no respecter of proprieties, lifted her off her feet and squeezed her arms with his huge hairy hands. “Your wolf pup mauled the Kingslayer once, he’ll do it again if need be.”
-Robb's fingers brushed the pommel of his sword. "If I could I'd take his ugly head off. Sansa would be a widow then, and free. There's no other way that I can see. They made her speak the vows before a septon and don a crimson cloak."
Catelyn remembered the twisted little man she had seized at the crossroads inn and carried all the way to the Eyrie. "I should have let Lysa push him out her Moon Door."
Like what the hell are they even talking about anymore. Hopefully Sansa antis wake up one day and realise that nobody but them, will think that a 13 year old willingly married into the family that killed hers. If northern lords believed that women should totally attach themselves to their captors they wouldn't be marching against the Bolton's and trying to save "Arya". None of them are talking how "Arya" probably willingly married Ramsey. They wouldn't hold any judgment for Ramsey forcefully marrying lady Hornwood.
-And do you imagine the Hornwood men have forgotten the Bastard's last marriage, and how his lady wife was left to starve, chewing her own fingers? What do you think passes through their heads when they hear the new bride weeping?
Remember how they think that 15 year old Lyanna willingly ran away with 23 year old Rhegar. Oh wait they don't. But no they definitely will think that 13 year old Sansa willingly married to 26 year old Tyrion+ all the bad things they believe about him.
#sansa stark#anti sansa antis#asoiaf#and I love how they tagged the post anti Sansa like that's supposed to be her fault
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sansa’s story up until now has been not about how everything sucks all the time but rather goodness and good people can be found in strange places. sandor is cruel and violent and dangerous but there just as she says, he saved her all the same. he tried, in his own terrible way, to help her survive and that lingers in her thoughts. tyrion terrifies her but ultimately is not particularly bad to her and that lingers in her mind as well. this is why i don’t think a political marriage is on the horizon, bc THATS what she grew up expecting (a political match where love can grow like her parents), and THAT is what she keeps telling herself is all she’ll ever have - life is not a song, and the best she can hope for is a good political match that allows her to go home. but that’s not true. life is not a song, but sandor helps her anyway. life is not a song, but tyrion is kind to her anyway. sansa marrying solely for politics only reinforces her current bleak worldview that everyone is terrible all the time, instead of the REAL theme here. so even though she’s going to be TEMPTED by several political matches, none of them are going to happen. she will see that love exists outside of these bonds, in a strange place she doesn’t expect.
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God I hope I can remember how to annoy everyone after the last week spent in my mozart lacrimosa hole being sick with covid and being forced to write this final paper… anyways edmure tully red wedding fancam when?
#the only man who had an allegedly good time for a little bit at the red wedding was him and it was nice to see#can y’all believe that this show was my first encounter with him and ciaran like for real??? jesus#also JUST REALIZING THAT SIR JOHN ROSS IS THE BLACK FISH!!!! OH WOW#oh I’m going to be winking at him a lot more whenever I re watch the terror now#god but this show was so good when it was good it has to be said#AND AGAIN. AFTER ALL THIS TIME. WE REALLY COULD HAVE HAD IT ALL WITH SANSA AND TYRION I AM SO SERIOUS#and no I’m not talking about the time of their canon wedding no. no its good nothing happened then. but my god they were real cute when#they were sitting around talking shit
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One thing I find funny from Show Dany haters is how much they call her an egomaniac tyrant who just wanted to control everything and everyone to obey her, that she only cared about the throne and power. How much they laugh at the idea of her trying to help common people, break the system and in general, give power to powerless people, etc. That she would only want power for herself and would loathe democracy more than any other character.
These people are also the ones who laughed along Season 8 Sansa, Tyrion, Arya and others when Sam proposed democracy as a system for Westeros at the end of the show.
To all that people, I'd like to kindly remind that before leaving for Westeros, Daenerys established democracy in Meereen (and the rest of the Bay of Dragons, I suppose). She and Tyrion spent some undetermined time to plan it and then left Daario and the Second Sons to keep the peace while people chose their rulers and a new government was appointed.
Now, while I'm sure we all would have liked to know the aftermatch of that, how things worked there after her leaving and especially after her death, we won't ever know thanks to certain writers who kinda forgot about it after S6, only remembering the Bay when deciding that slaying slavers was apparently a sign of madness and evilness ?¿
If you ask me, with Dany dead, most of her army destroyed as well, and no one else strong enough to protect the Bay, slavery will return and way worse. But that wasn't something D&D wanted people to think about because that would add some grey to the situation and they wanted Dany to be irremediably unjustifiable in her acts and her death the only option with only good consequences. Just to be clear, I think S8 Dany, a total different character from previous seasons, deserved to die after what she did. But go and visit the Bay in ten years, Jon and Tyrion, and ask them if what you two did was good. Surely and certaintly there were consequences.
In any case, since we'll never know what would happen, the series ends with Daenerys being the only ruler who actually cared for her people enough that she actually gave them total power to choose who should rule them... just 12 episodes before the writers decided she should mass murder innocents for literally no reason at all
She remains the only one who established real democracy that considered people no matter their origins or status (and not merely in a organization like the Night Watch) while the high nobles of Westeros laughed and considered the idea ridiculous. What a tyrant, right?
I'd have liked Sam to know the one who actually established his idea in a different place was the queen he hated so much, while all the others laughed. I'd have also liked if he was told what his family did and how many people died because of their betrayal, how many chances were even then offered to them, rather than just "they didn't bend the knee so i killed them lol". But the goal in Season 8 was always to paint Dany as a villain with no gray in the middle, just like they made Jon lie to his family and the lords and say Dany forced him to bend the knee in order to help the North when she actually swore to defend it without any commitment to her cause the moment she realized the threat was real and no fantasy. Yet no one, not even Dany, ever blinked an eye about this. Like it was retconned to frame her as evil.
#daenerys#daenerys targaryen#daenerys stormborn#queen daenerys#mother of dragons#breaker of chains#pro daenerys#pro daenerys targaryen#team daenerys#got#game of thrones#anti d&d#hotd#house of the dragon#asoiaf#team black
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Something I haven't seen brought up much with the ramsay vs manderly horn wood question is about Donella Hornwoods own claim to those lands. She's not a Hornwoods by blood, but by marriage, so she would only have widow's use rights (which I believe are the rights to live there and be supported). Hornwood would need to pass to the next blood claimant or revert to the crown to dispense with if one can't be found. This is why I'm especially confused as to how she can name Ramsay inheritor in a will to lands she doesn't own. (Whereas Catelyn clearly doesn't have the power to will winterfell to Arya over Jon despite being in the same position as the widowed Dowager Queen/Lady)
Instead, it's the manderlys and the bolton at odds over who owns that land, both through Donella, even though she herself doesn't seem to have actual inheritance rights to it. (As opposed to Sansa Stark, who is a blood claimant so Tyrion could legally rule winterfell through her) In any case I think the real crux of the issue, like with the forced marriage, is bigger army diplomacy. Bran mentions a bastard, but unless said bastard can raise an army or get the millitary support of a larger faction, those lands are going to the bolton or the manderlys.
I imagine there isn't a blood relative with any real millitary backing or roose and wyman wouldn't be going through all this trouble for someone who technically only has widow's use rights.
Ultimately, because armies are honestly the biggest decider of succession law in westeros (Aegon II acknowledged as king over Rhaenrya I in histories because he won the war, Maegor over Aegon the uncrowned because he won the war, even the Tyrell's claim to highgarden being a bit dodgy in terms of blood relations but backed up by the targaryen millitary power of the time etc), whether or not Donellas's marriage and contract are going to be considered valid according to history will depend on who is in power. Should the boltons be toppled, I think the new lord/lady/king/queen of the north will suddenly be hearing a lot of arguments about the legality of vows forced at sword point that no one dares take to roose bolton now.
hello anon, thank you for your thoughtful message!! the hornwood marriage and its fallout is one of my favorite subplots of the series so i'm always thrilled to talk about it.
while i agree with your final conclusion that armies are the biggest decider of succession law in westeros (i talked about this here re: lord manderly and his squatting on hornwood after donella's death), i think you're underselling donella's legal claim to hornwood as lord hornwood's widow as they apply to her lord husband.
look at lysa tully, jon arryn's widow:

agot, chapter 34, catelyn vi
you could say that lysa only has a claim to the vale because she has the men to back it. lady hornwood is alone. her son and her husband were killed, and the majority if not all of her household guard were killed as well. she is the last remnant of house hornwood.
the degree to which wives who marry into greathouses are integrated into that breathouse is variable. cat, as a notable example, calls herself a stark as often as she calls herself a tully. tyrion (and others i think) calls her a shewolf. she considers herself an outsider, a riverlander in the north, but as the series progresses and especially after ned's death she speaks about herself in her private thoughts and aloud in public as a stark of winterfell. cersei, on the other hand, would drop dead before she called herself a baratheon. and lysa falls moreso in the middle, where she is called lysa tully and after the death of her husband is often reminded of/aligned with her familial connections to house tully, but absolutely considers herself Of The Vale, even though she's spent about fourteen years in king's landing with jon serving as robert's hand. (donella, for as long as we know her, is always and by everyone referred to as lady hornwood, never donella manderly).
so one could argue that lysa tully is pointedly not an arryn, and is only holding the vale because her son is a blood claimant AND she has tully and arryn forces to support her own claim in the meantime.
but suitors are beating down lysa's door because they want the vale. and the vale would pass to them as the new head of the vale and defacto head of house arryn. i was going to use ramsay as an example but his bastard status makes this more complicated so let's pick a legitimate second son. why can't i think of anyone.
actually, let's say tyrion, since you also mentioned sansa's blood rights to winterfell.
tyrion is heir by blood to casterly rock, since jaime is a knight of the kingsguard and thus unable to inherit. let's axe that because it also makes things more complicated. jaime leaves the kingsguard as tywin wants him to do and he inherits casterly rock and becomes warden of the west. this leaves tyrion a second son with no blood claim to casterly rock (similar to the blackfish, who left house tully to go with lysa to the vale and serve house arryn. i didn't use him as an example because lysa's husband also being a tully would muddy the waters of an example that is already stretched pretty thin). so tyrion marries lysa tully. tyrion is now lord of the vale, stepfather to lord robert aryn. tyrion's first order of business would be siring a son on his new wife so that lord baby lannister-tully would become the new heir to the vale, trumping robert arryn's claim. all of this would come from lysa tully's claim to the vale, as the widow of jon arryn.
importantly, donella hornwood is considered an elligible marriage prospect by the men at winterfell, even if she is too old to have children.
Midday came and went. Maester Luwin sent Poxy Tym down to the kitchens, and they dined in the solar on cheese, capons, and brown oatbread. While tearing apart a bird with fat fingers, Lord Wyman made polite inquiry after Lady Hornwood, who was a cousin of his. “She was born a Manderly, you know. Perhaps, when her grief has run its course, she would like to be a Manderly again, eh?” He took a bite from a wing, and smiled broadly. “As it happens, I am a widower these past eight years. Past time I took another wife, don’t you agree, my lords? A man does get lonely.” Tossing the bones aside, he reached for a leg. “Or if the lady fancies a younger lad, well, my son Wendel is unwed as well. He is off south guarding Lady Catelyn, but no doubt he will wish to take a bride on his return. A valiant boy, and jolly. Just the man to teach her to laugh again, eh?” He wiped a bit of grease off his chin with the sleeve of his tunic.
acok, chapter 16, bran ii
here we see lord manderly scheming to get the hornwood lands by marriage, for either himself or his son
Bran wanted to give the lady a hundred men to defend her rights, but Ser Rodrik only said, “He may look, but should he do more I promise you there will be dire retribution. You will be safe enough, my lady … though perhaps in time, when your grief is passed, you may find it prudent to wed again.”
“I am past my childbearing years, what beauty I had long fled,” she replied with a tired half smile, “yet men come sniffing after me as they never did when I was a maid.”
“You do not look favorably on these suitors?” asked Luwin.
“I shall wed again if His Grace commands it,” Lady Hornwood replied, “but Mors Crowfood is a drunken brute, and older than my father. As for my noble cousin of Manderly, my lord’s bed is not large enough to hold one of his majesty, and I am surely too small and frail to lie beneath him.”
Bran knew that men slept on top of women when they shared a bed. Sleeping under Lord Manderly would be like sleeping under a fallen horse, he imagined. Ser Rodrik gave the widow a sympathetic nod. “You will have other suitors, my lady. We shall try and find you a prospect more to your taste.”
“Perhaps you need not look very far, ser.” After she had taken her leave, Maester Luwin smiled. “Ser Rodrik, I do believe my lady fancies you.” Ser Rodrik cleared his throat and looked uncomfortable.
acok, chapter 26, bran ii
and here we see donella both acknowledging her many suitors and flirting with ser rodrik (cute!!!)
immediately after this though we get a more pragmatic breakdown of why donella's dead husband and son cause issues politically:
“She was very sad,” said Bran.
Ser Rodrik nodded. “Sad and gentle, and not at all uncomely for a woman of her years, for all her modesty. Yet a danger to the peace of your brother’s realm nonetheless.”
“Her?” Bran said, astonished. Maester Luwin answered. “With no direct heir, there are sure to be many claimants contending for the Hornwood lands. The Tallharts, Flints, and Karstarks all have ties to House Hornwood through the female line, and the Glovers are fostering Lord Harys’s bastard at Deepwood Motte. The Dreadfort has no claim that I know, but the lands adjoin, and Roose Bolton is not one to overlook such a chance.”
Ser Rodrik tugged at his whiskers. “In such cases, her liege lord must find her a suitable match.”
“Why can’t you marry her?” Bran asked. “You said she was comely, and Beth would have a mother.” The old knight put a hand on Bran’s arm. “A kindly thought, my prince, but I am only a knight, and besides too old. I might hold her lands for a few years, but as soon as I died Lady Hornwood would find herself back in the same mire, and Beth’s prospects might be perilous as well.”
“Then let Lord Hornwood’s bastard be the heir,” Bran said, thinking of his half brother Jon. Ser Rodrik said, “That would please the Glovers, and perhaps Lord Hornwood’s shade as well, but I do not think Lady Hornwood would love us. The boy is not of her blood.”
“Still,” said Maester Luwin, “it must be considered. Lady Donella is past her fertile years, as she said herself. If not the bastard, who?”
“May I be excused?” Bran could hear the squires at their swordplay in the yard below, the ring of steel on steel.
acok, chapter 26, bran ii
so we're right back to the point where you and i totally agree. the only thing that REALLY decides inheritance rights in westeros is the point of a sword.
which wheels us back to my longstanding point (arrived at throughout my first reread and with the help of many friendly mutuals and anons who contributed to my understanding of the issue) that ramsay kidnapping donella hornwood and marrying her at swordpoint is unusual because he is an unrecognized illegitimate bastard when he does it, but is at the end of the day not that much more brutal or unheard of than any other run of the mill marriage in westeros.
so donella here is like a vector through which the hornwood lands would pass. lysa's situation with the vale is similar, though her claim to the keep and its lands is stronger because she has a living heir AND both tully and arryn forces to guard her claim.
ramsay banked on the dreadfort's forces to protect him from the ramifications of kidnapping raping and murdering a noblewoman AND to hold the hornwood lands. the dreadfort forces could do neither. but the marriage was not a total loss politically since as i have said, ramsay is the legal claimant to the hornwood lands, AND roose has an interest in holding those lands as well so he would back his claim if it came to it.
as with all things in westeros, whoever carries the biggest stick wins the day, regardless of written law or unwritten social custom.
so at the end of the day, i think donella's legal rights to hornwood are strong only insofar as they serve her new lord husband, who stands to inherit her land. which. actually reading over all this again i think it is accurate of you to say that donella only has widow's rights for as long as she does not remarry. but that is less to do with westerosi legal code (nonexistant) and more to do with hornwood having no military strength left AND their leige lords the starks being stretched too thin with the WoFK to lend their help before it's too late to do so.
donella can will her lands to her new husband ramsay because she would have functionally been doing to same thing if lord manderly or his son married her. or if ser rodrik married her. donella has claim over hornwood only insofar as she can give it to her lord husband.
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I just finsihed None But the Lonely Heart by OccasionalAvenger after seeing your fic rec and loved it even though i dont read much jamie x brienne centric stories.
Do you have any other fic recs from asoiaf/got?
Omg yay I’m so glad you liked it!
If you enjoyed None But the Lonely Heart in terms of setting, here are a few more in-universe fics you might enjoy:
I'm dying to be born again by angel_deux
After the wars are done, Daenerys is queen of the six kingdoms. Jon and Sansa Stark rule the north. And Jaime serves as a hostage in Kings Landing to ensure his brother's good behavior. When Tyrion schemes to see Jaime married off and removed from the city, Jaime is allowed to choose his wife.
He should be happier that the woman he loves is quick to accept his proposal. Except maybe it's too quick. And she just says, "all right". And she calls it sensible.
Bound by the Things We Choose by winterkill
Jaime's pretty certain he would remember standing across from the dour, hulking Maid of Tarth and swearing to be with her until the end of his days.
Personally, I love an AU. These are the ones I always return to:
Light a fire, burn up all you know by brynnmck
When rich, arrogant Jaime Lannister swans into Brienne's dad's diner and spends the whole time making out with his rude stepsister, Brienne couldn't be more relieved that she'll probably never have to see either one of them again. The only problem is, over the next 15 years, Jaime keeps coming back.
Or: five letters that Brienne burned, and one she didn't.
Same Time, Next Year by angelowl
“I’m Jaime,” he says, his eyes gleaming with laughter.
There’s a wicked edge to his mirth that makes Brienne wonder if it’s her freakishness that’s the butt of his joke so she spins on her heel and stiffly marches away.
After that, Jaime inexplicably keeps seeking her out.
The Dark, Dread Toyshop by Miss_M
The summer she turns sixteen, Brienne suffers a grave loss. She and her siblings are forced to move in with their Uncle Tywin and his sons, who own a fabulous and eerie toyshop. Sexual awakenings occur, dark family secrets are revealed, and puppet theatre echoes real life.
Baby I Will by sdwolfpup
When a country singer with a stripper's name and a model's looks strolls into Selwyn's bar to perform one Tuesday night, bartender Brienne isn't sure what to expect. What they both end up with is so much more than they bargained for.
Brienne, Plain and Tall by greenmtwoman
Farmer with two children and substantial property in the West seeks a wife. Requirements are honesty, sobriety, a strong back and a thick skin. A practical arrangement will be made. Beauty is unnecessary and intimacy not expected. Interested parties should contact Mr. Jaime Lannister, Casterly Farm.
Did this Mr. Lannister want a wife or a hired hand? But in either case what did she have to lose?
Or if you’re in the mood for some longer-form reading, these are amazing:
The Lion, The Wench, and the Wardrobe Trailer by GilShalos1
Jaime Lannister’s entire acting career has been built on playing reckless cads and heartless villains – ever since a scandalous death on his first film, Kingslayer, was quickly hushed up at his father’s behest. Nearly fifteen years later, acclaimed director Olenna Tyrell has announced her retirement: after one last film, Oathkeeper, inspired by the mythic story of the Long Night. She wants Jaime to do what he does so well, play into his on-screen persona and off-screen reputation, and be a villain for the ages in her final film. But to make sure his infamous ways don’t interfere with production, she requires his personal assistant to keep him on the straight, narrow and sober. Brienne Tarth, in her first job on a film set, finds herself tasked with keeping the impossible Jaime Lannister under control …
Heart Full of Gasoline by sdwolfpup
Jaime Lannister is a Formula 1 driver with a sordid past, dubious future, and nothing left to lose as he hits the far edge of his career. He thinks all he wants is the world championship title he’s never quite been able to reach and to finally give up smoking. What he finds to his great surprise is what he really wants might be Brienne Tarth.
Brienne Tarth is an unknown mechanic eager to make the jump to the big time of Formula 1. When Jaime hires her as Chief Mechanic for his team of misfits, she discovers she’s ready for the work, but is she ready for Jaime?
#sorry this is so long but please enjoy!#this is literally just grazing the surface of all the amazing fics out there#but if I were starting from the beginning these are the ones I would love to read with fresh eyes#Jaime Lannister#brienne of tarth#jaime x brienne#sissy blogs ASOIAF
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