#the outsiders the complete novel

[wr1t3w1tm3]

More unsolicited thoughts on The Outsiders a New Musical.

Tw: mention of suicide in some of the last paragraphs. If you've read the book/watched the movie, ya know.

Contains spoilers for all forms of The Outsiders (book, movie, and musical). All spoilers are below the cut.

I figured out why some of the songs in the new Outsiders musical didn't make as much sense.

They changed several plot points!!!

Most aren't egregious and I'm cool with them, but there are a couple they got me some kinda way.

(This is based if the plot synopsis on Wikipedia. It could be wrong but it's all I've got cause im a broke pleb).

In Chronological Order:

Obviously there is no Steve. Personally don't care either way. Like him and Soda's platonic relationship, particilarly what we see in the movie, but otherwise I understand why it was easier to cut his role.

Johnny only got jumped a week before the musical (but then Justice for Tulsa sounds weird because Cherry suggests Johhny killed because of how Bob treated him and she implies that he was hurt a while ago...? IDK man. Not to big a gripe but it's just weird).

Grease got a Hold is essentially a ritual initiation because Ponyboy survived getting jumped (they skip his getting saved by the gang by having Pony get knocked out) so him surviving makes him a Greaser? I don't understand and frankly I would've preferred slightly less deviation from the source material here but again, I don't mind this change, it's all down to preference.

I almost don't like how much of a main character Darry has become? Like I like him in the adaptation, but I feel like his upgrade came at the cost of the downgrade of Soda and Two-Bit. I love both those characters and from what I've read/heard they both had there roles reduced, Soda it seems almost severely. But typical middle child shit I guess. Again, he could have a lot of speaking bits because I'm going off a couple synonpses and the cast album, but man I miss him. And Two Bit. I hope that they at least had him and Pony together going to visit Johnny. That's one of my favorite parts of the book and movie.

They add a scene between Johnny and Dally where Dally sees Johnny outside his house. I'm out of order here bit it's the night before the Drive In. Johnny says he's afraid to leave because his dad could kill his mom? Interesting take on that relationship but okay. I do love this scene personally.

I don't know if we get the Two Bit and Marcia fling. It didn't get mentioned in the plot synopsis so I won't comment further.

The addition of Ponyboy going unconcscious during the first fight means I get a two nickles meme about Ponyboy blacking out during fights in this musical.

There's no Randy?!?!? @annacatbeth13 said he got cut for the Broadway run and I'm sorry. He is a hella good character and even though his movie role is reduced, he's so good. I kinda feel like the musical suffers by having only Cherry as the oposition to Soc POV when you've got minimum of Pony and Johnny verbally against the Greaser POV and Darry is very much contrary in action during the book/movie and verbally here.

B/c there's no Randy a lot of Bob and Randy scenes are just Bob and Soc scenes.

I'm sorry, the fact that the guy who plays Bob plays the cop that investigates Bob's murder is sending me. MF rolls up like "yeah, I didn't just die here. This is fine" and everyone rolls with it. It's show business, I understand, but I feel like if I saw this show in person I'd notice and I'd lose it.

Also, I'm gonna note here that Brent Comer played Paul in La Jolla and now plays Darry. Ironic. Speaking of Paul and Darry as much as I don't like them removing Randy using Paul to fill his role as Bob's friend works quiet well. However, isn't Paul 20? And wasn't Bob like 17 or 18? I have questions that I'm not sure I can answer so I'm just gonna assume they were friends in high school and Paul stayed local for college.

I also don't know if they end up going to the Dairy Queen? Like the synopsis says that Dally comes up to see them and that it's Pony's discarded cigarette that starts the fire... but then the kids show up out of nowhere so where the hell did they come from? This entire incident is assumedly spoken so all I've got's the synopsis.

I was told again by @annacatbeth13 that Randy sang Hopeless War with Cherry and Pony and dammit, they took out that entire thing and that is such a catalyst for Ponyboy seeing the world in shades of gray like Cherry mentions in Hopeless War and I'm... I'm sorry. It just feels kinda wrong. I understand why they had to cut him but dammit it doesn't mean I'm not sad.

Everything in the hospital feels rushed. It does seem like they cut the Two-Bit taking Pony to the hospital bit (which makes sense, still sort of makes me mad). It also sounds like they upped Johnny's charge to first degree murder!! Like that doesn't make sense to me. He didn't premeditate shit. I honestly don't even think you could get second degree murder to stick. They then just mention and drop the charges in like the same song? Or in pretty rapid succession because it seems like the cut the juvenile court and Darry having to be checked on by the state storylines. Again, I understand having to strip a musical down to be a bit more barebones because of time contsraints but, like, if Fiddler can have four different plot lines within the same family, you can have the main issue, the sibling fight, and the Pony/Cherry/Randy bit. It's only three plotlines. I don't know why this makes me so mad but it does and IDK why?

I love Trouble. I love Darry in that song. And Dally. But also... Pony in the book and movie has been in multiple rumbles. It is mentioned in greater detail in the book and I don't know how I feel about them making Ponyboy so innocent. Like. He was never innocent, in the book and the movie. Everyone just thought he was? Again, simplifying for time constraints but I do miss it.

I like what they did with Paul. He's always felt very flat, more of a mirror to reflect Darry against same as Steve reflected Soda and Cherry/Randy/Johnny reflected Pony. But I do like the sort of righteous indignation they gave this version of Paul. It gives him that little bit of motivation to convince me that he should be at the rumble, despite being 20. Because in the book we get told that Darry is there specifically as the leader of Pony's "gang" but we don't get told why Paul is there so it feels odd. The musical does rectify that, which I kind of like.

However, I have to say I love Dally and Johnny's relationship in this musical. Just based on what I've seen they made it the most clear and concise interpretation of all versions of this story. Both songs where Dally talks to Johnny he refers to him as little brother, which cements that relationship and helps us understand why he eventually snaps. Which I will be talking about but I cannot give enough praise for their relationship.

I also cannot give enough praise for Cherry. I don't know exactly what they did, and they really ramped up Cherry's invovlement because she had to take some of Randy's place but they did such a good job with her. I like how they put her in the middle of all the conflicts (mostly with the Justice for Tulsa number) and I think seeing how she reacts really cemented this version as my favorite. I think they manage to get across that she actually does care about Johnny and Pony as people. All the other versions she comes off as pitying them which I don't like because it feels fake. And I understand why Pony doesn't like her. I kind of like that her relationship with him extends to her giving him Johnny's clothes because she starts volunteering at the hospital. I think that also helps humanize her too.

Alright, this is the most egrious change, in my humble opinion. They change how Dally dies. I think that him commiting suicide is necessary to the story, but in the musical he JUMPS IN FRONT OF A TRAIN!! You could argue that this is because a train killed the Curtis Parents (as seen in the complete novel edition of the movie) and you could argue that it's a symbol of death or of constancy for the Curtis' as they lose people to trains (technically Pony and Johnny are taken away to Windrixville via train). However... I think it still would've made more sense to stick to Dally dying via suicide by cop. It seems like they cut the Dairy Queen scene and if they did they probably cut Dally carrying a heater, which then makes the suicide by cop not work so they have him jump in front of a train... but that still feels out of character to me. I could be wrong, but when Pony talks about how Dally would go, he says Dally would die young and violent and angry. Him jumping in front of a train doesn't tell me he was angry. It tells me he was depressed. While you still get desperation, it's sad desperation. Not the angry desperation that you get with him doing the suicide by cop.

It would not surprise me in the slightest if they choose not to use Dally's original death because of the police discourse in the media. I want to say now that I have several cops/ex-cops in my family and from what they have told me, if someone pulled a stunt like what Dally did in the movie/book, they would be forced to shoot. It becomes a kill or be killed situation because they don't know if the gun is loaded. Now, the offending officer would be tried later on for manslaughter or related crimes but probably acquitted because they couldn't have known (in the movie it's debatable because the gang yells that the gun isn't loaded, but the police still probably wouldn't have listened). I think that the writers probably wanted to avoid having that controversy drum up. I can't blame them, still pisses me off.

All that being said, I do like this adaptation. But of the three versions of this piece of media, it's my least favorite. Love all the songs, love what characters we do have, and this is by far my favorite Cherry and my favorite portrayal of Johnny and Dally's relationship, but I don't like what they did to Dally in the end. No hard feelings against anyone who likes this or the creatives behind it, but it's just not my favorite and I don't know how faithful I would consider this adaptation.

[lewisandclark465]

Remember the scene in the movie when ponyboy and sodapop cuddle in bed and contemplate life in Tulsa? Yeah me neither. That scene was in the book, which is probably why it sounds familiar, and they filmed it in the movie but cut it last minute in fear of the “homophobic allegations” (they’re BROTHERS but it was the 80’s ig). The movie with this deleted scene, along with a few other deleted scenes, is called “The Outsiders: The Complete Novel” or “The Outsiders: The Complete Version” and u can find it on youtube for free!!! It’s cut up into scenes but it’s very good video quality with little blurs. Just search up the title and bam!

There’s also the option of renting it on prime video but why rent when u can free?

[dallasgallant]

Johnny: ‘ever wanna talk about your emotions, Dal?

Dally: No.

Pony: I do.

Johnny: I know Pony.

Pony: I’m sad.

Johnny: I know Pony.

[likes-words-and-shrimp]

Seeing that one post going around that's just basically 'say if you ever read fanfictions that are better than published books' and it's like, yeah of course there are some that are better, because some people are genuinely good writers, but also there are good books too, and then seeing people say things like, 'I have never read a good book I only prefer fanfictions' and it's just?? Seek out some books? There are so many different kinds, for so many different things. It just sounds like you're reading for an easy serotonin boost than really engaging with the work.

People who write books and people who write fanfics have one thing in common: they write. They are doing the act of writing, and each person is going to have different styles and come at it with different experiences. Also, if your favorite fanfic writer comes out with an original work that's not just filing the serial numbers off, will you read it? Or are you only there because they're writing your favorite characters from another piece of media (which might even be from a book?). Speaking as a fanfic writer who is happy when people compliment my writing, please read some books I'm begging. Not everything is from booktok.

[techno-rat]

techno and his relationship to dehumanization is SOOO important to me .

[waitineedaname]

One thing that I think muddies the water re: SQQ acting like a buffoon is that he’s much more physically expressive in the donghua? In a very comical and memorable way, like chugging the medicine he tries to give Luo Binghe when the system is about to doc him points, noticing it’s for external use only, and then visibly fainting in front of Ming Fan and Luo Binghe. He’s much more of a clown, and it’s mostly in good fun, even if it’s not accurate to the book. Thinking about it more, my ideal adaptation would have SQQ properly maintaining his immortal facade at all times, but also include an expressive chibi version of himself acting out his inner thoughts and yelling at the system constantly. Only the audience would see his flailing, and also probably SQH when he’s introduced. Also! Showing him get more expressive with Binghe as book 3 goes on and he lets out more of his real personality around him.

that's a really good point about the donghua! I'm charmed by how SQQ is in the donghua because he's such a fucking loser (affectionate) but it definitely isn't very accurate to the novel. tbh the difference between SQQ's inner monologue vs outward appearance/actions is one of the things that makes it hard to adapt from a written form! having a little chibi SQQ to express his inner thoughts is an option, or hiding his expressions behind his fan or waiting until he's alone to scream into a pillow or something lsdkjflksdjf it's tough! it's really one of those things that works best as a book, which is such a shame because GOD i want to see so much of it visually

also him being more expressive with Binghe as their relationship develops is really good :') especially post-canon! Binghe complains that SQQ smiles more at other people, can you imagine what it'll be like once SQQ starts letting more of those walls down and fully grins at him while teasing him? I think Binghe would just straight up short circuit for a second

[clownsnake]

I’m on episode 71 of the orv webtoon. so he’s literally just been dissociating this whole time huh

[icewindandboringhorror]

Lineup of all of the characters that appear long enough to need a visual representation of them in the game lol

[danieyells]

As much as I enjoy smut and stuff I do like non-smutty things too, or idk ~wholesome~ crap or whatever. I especially like slice of life tbh like 'what's it like living in this place' 'what's this person's life like' 'what's it like to be this kind of creature or person in this world' i love that shit i eat that shit up

I enjoy regular romance too but i find it idk boring quickly and easily unless there's like. Something interesting about it i guess? Like wholesome, happy, healthy relationships are the ideal irl. You can find those outside in real life. Why would I want my fiction to mostly be like that. You can find nearly anyone with sweet and soft headcanons and sappy relationship concepts like that. And it's fun for a bit but it doesn't really hit like other stuff does.

Like even just having the characters have more interesting dynamics and personalities adds something to it. I like characters like Luca, sure, but for the most part he's got a very. Simple dynamic going for him. He's a Good Person and his flaws sre mostly being shortsighted, too focused on his goals, and being thoughtless, but that rarely results in idk something entertaining or interesting for example. A relationship with him is the kind of relationship you'd seek out irl. Wholesome, sweet, respectful, gentle. But there's not much flavor in that for me.

It doesn't help that while I'm aroace I find romantic things harder to idk conceptualize than sexual ones? Romance is such an arbitrary, made up, ill defined sort of attachment. I understand it's a real feeling for most people but it's also like. . .baseless to me. Sexuality at least has some sort of physical manifestation. But I don't understand romantic attraction much as an actual feeling and no one's ever defined it in a way that told me what it was supposed to be.

This romantic relationship could have been a strong and affectionate and deep friendship. I understand why it couldn't have but also it really could have. I enjoy the joke 'there's no [heterosexual/non-romantic/non-sexual] explanation for this' and all but it's also a very. Limited perspective joke. You can't love your friends deeply? You can't want to kiss or hold them or share a bed with them platonically? You can't imagine other people doing that? I guess that's the common perspective but still.

But yeah my interests are generally slice of life/worldbuilding and idk sexual stuff with some romance i guess. But i'm not so interested in idk wholesome??? Non-intense or extreme???? Things because that's. Stuff you can find irl. I can find friends or strangers who're in or who've had happy relationships and hear about normal, wholesome, happy stuff(and I'd love to hear about it!!!) I live a normal life everyday. Of course my interests are more extreme. I'm content with the normalcy i have so my external interests are the things that aren't so normal. And you can find normal, wholesome stuff everywhere. I can provide it too but it won't draw my attention as much?

Yeah the everyday life of the reader and someone like Luca would be nice and beautiful and stuff like that. But even Kaito would have a more interesting dynamic for example, with his cowardice and his want to try and present himself as someone he isn't, his desire to be your knight in shining armor even though he knows he's a weak coward who can't do that or can't be that. He tries too hard and freaks out if he feels worried that you might dislike something about him or be swept away by someone else and that's how he expresses his love and that at least feels more interesting to me than the simple deep dedication of someone like Luca. One could spin it in such a way that Luca would devote himself to his love the way he devotes himself to finding his brother, puts all this work in to learn to be the perfect lover, is borderline obsessive because He Has To Do This Right It's What You Deserve. And that could be interesting too. But like you see what I'm getting at right? That stuff like that doesn't really appeal to me? Maybe because The Love Is All That's Going On There and I just need something else there.

Idk. I enjoy vulgarity and smut and extreme things because they're interesting things, different things, things you're less likely to encounter or deal with or significantly less likely to want irl compared to more tame stuff. Same with violence, I don't like violence irl, I don't like problems irl, I don't like people getting harmed irl. But in stories and games and fiction it's fun, someone getting tortured is fun, someone in pain and being hurt or abused is fun and entertaining and interesting, something to be explored.

But even that kind of thing can be boring for me! Like I remember seeing kink where someone has their limbs cut off and is mindbroken into being a pet or a fucktoy and that's fun for a bit but then it's like. The same stuff over and over. Same with character death, it just feels like an empty end when it's the focus? I can enjoy those things but idk. I like continuity I guess.

Idk. Just rambling about what goes on in my head I guess lol brought on partially by talking about silly fun stuff with Romeo and Taiga owning their cat selves and their fankid, which immediately followed a brief exchange about Taiga being gentle with Romeo and making him blush which was a direct result of a conversation about Romeo feeling turned on(and disgusted at the same time) the first time he sees Taiga eat raw meat and his face and hands covered in blood and then feeling guilt for masturbating to the thought, and about the thought of Taiga biting him or killing him and the appeal of that danger or even just the liberation of that Taiga could leave marks on his flawless body and that would mean not having to care about it happening again, free from that eternal preoccupation with being perfect and flawless. And how I enjoy all of these different things despite that it may not come off that way.

[outeremissary]

I'm so lost in the sauce on my durge that I kinda forget there's supposed to be a video game attached sometimes tbh

[radarsteddybear]

Defendant not guilty. At this time, I will place him in the custody of his older brother, Darryl. This court is adjourned.

The Outsiders: The Complete Novel | dir. Francis Ford Coppola | 1983 / 2005

[secretmellowblog]

The reason I’m having trouble writing the second chapter of my recent Hugo-pastiche Les Mis fanfic is that, every time I try to write Jean Valjean in the style of Victor Hugo, the chapter just turns into an overlong agonized inner monologue of spiraling self-recriminations and self-loathing. and then the story never moves forward. :P

Originally I’d actually hoped for this entire fic to be a short comic, but I changed it to prose after realizing that most of the comic’s script was just Jean Valjean’s inner monologue and yet somehow all that inner monologue was still not enough to feel like anything even close to resembling something like the characterization of Hugo’s Jean Valjean.

This is why it’s so much easier to write Javert. Javert canonically hates thinking and will not do it. It makes everything so much easier

[dallasgallant]

I’m pretty sure they make these exact faces in the movie too lmao.

I absolutely lose my mind every time because pony’s just “he’s stinky and he’s mean and my brother has way more manners and looks than him.”

“Yeah manners maybe but… dally 😳”

[prince-of-elsinore]

me and francis ford coppola, on the theatrical cut of The Outsiders:

[trekkiehood]

Here's the full cut of the movie for free if you are interested 🫶

https://archive.org/details/the-outsiders.mp-4

[soobiesworld]

there are times where i wish i could go back and rewatch certain movies again! for example i would give anything to watch the outsiders for the first time again. granted i was about 8 years old when i watched it, so i didn’t understand the concept per say? but i remember loving it so much. same with the karate kid 1&2! i remember loving those movies so much as a kid, so much so, that my dad bought the dvds for me as a birthday present! it was just a good ole time