#the most interesting part of the show to me by far is dean's character

[ishouldreallybeelsewhere]

Episode one of Supernatural is so flawed that, had I watched it for the first time last night (instead of for the third), I would not have have watched the second. Ever. The flaws are things I simply didn't pick up on when I was thirteen, and memory glazed over with emotional attachment. I understand why these flaws are there, what the writers tried and failed to do through clumsy dialogue and strange character decisions. There's no subtlety. Everything Sam says is direct exposition, specifically the things that he would not have to say to his brother.

I do not do reviews so that's all I'm going to say.

[scoobydoodean]

it is interesting to me that sam is judgmental about dean’s eating habits, but, from what I remember, he’s fairly non-judgmental about his drinking habits in comparison. while sam goes through phases of wanting to eat “cleaner” he never wants to give up alcohol. do you think this indicates that sam is also pretty dependent on alcohol himself but less “showy” about this than dean who jokes about needing alcohol more often? or is it more that he knows it comes off as insanely hypocritical bc of his demon blood addiction where he went off the rails while dean is still functional even during periods of heavy drinking?

(Does Dean joke around about needing alcohol that often?)

Interesting question. I don't think hypocrisy has ever stopped a character in Supernatural from saying anything tbh. But I also don't think Sam sees anything wrong with the way Dean drinks most of the time. This is a man who tried to give Dean beer for breakfast when he was suicidal (13.05). And I think the reason he was offering Dean breakfast beer is also pretty key to understanding why Sam, for the most part, shuts the fuck up about Dean drinking: He isn't actually good at dealing with Dean not being okay. It scares him. I'll come back to that in a minute.

I think fanon sometimes makes more of Dean's relationship with alcohol than it is. I'm not saying there aren't points in the show where Dean is very obviously shown to have an alcohol problem. I'm not saying his relationship with alcohol is normal (though his relationship with alcohol is pretty normal prior to him going to hell). I am saying I think a chunk of fandom tends to think of Dean as someone who is more or less constantly buzzed for most of the series, and that's just not accurate. After hell, Dean begins drinking to fall asleep. He is binge drinking a significant amount before bed by mid season 5 after the Harvelle's deaths (5.11, 5.16). But it is to fall asleep and it cuts back to a glass or two a night by the beginning of season 6 after a hard fought struggle we get small references to between Dean and Lisa (6.01, 6.06). Dean would be dead on a hunt within a month if he was constantly day drinking, and the show notes to us specifically when Dean is so out of sorts he feels the need to do that (see: 6.06, where Dean drinks just to be able to stand being near Sam, after being assaulted the previous episode while Sam watched and smiled). A glass of whiskey or two before bed becomes Dean's new normal from season 6 onwards. When his drinking ticks up from that in one season or episode to another, there's a deeper problem going on that Dean is struggling through. I only mention this because when I actually think of points where Sam might say something to Dean about an uptick in drinking... it's not going to happen as often as fandom sometimes imagines.

Sam understands Dean's options as far as dealing with nightmares from decades of reality-bending torture are highly limited. Realistically, Dean has zero access to qualified professional support. Suppose Dean took sleeping pills instead of drinking to fall asleep. Would he actually be better off? Would he eventually abuse sleeping pills instead? Would that just put something in close proximity to him that he could even more easily overdose on? Because... Dean also isn't a stranger to suicidal ideation, and Sam is very aware of that, and I wager he gets a hell of a lot more antsy about the thought of Dean having constant access to sleeping pills than he does about Dean drinking a glass of whiskey or two before bed. In the fucked up world they live in, as far as Sam's concerned, Dean's relationship with alcohol is usually "under control" in a relative sense. I think Sam understands Dean's use of alcohol and he accepts it... and he isn't going to get judgy, because Sam isn't good at actually handling Dean not being okay. Dean not being able to cope scares Sam however he might pretend to play Mr. Therapist (see my tag: #bad therapist sam).

If Dean chooses to cope with nightmares and sleep disturbances using alcohol while still being functional during the day, Sam isn't going to say a word. When Dean's drinking gets bad, for example, in season 7 when Dean constantly carries around Bobby's flask, I seem to recollect Sam speaking up about it at least once—at least in vague terms? But we'll see when I get back into season 7. (All I remember right now is him joking that alcohol is a "vitamin" for Dean in 7.18). I really do think in general, as far as Sam as concerned, as long as Dean's drinking doesn't effect his job performance... it's all good. He generally isn't going to touch it with a ten foot pole—not even to joke.

It is true at the same time that Dean's relationship with food also is and continues to further develop into a coping mechanism. Dean eats when he's grieving or sad and when he wants comfort. Food makes Dean feel safe. However, Dean also eats when he's happy, and Sam's judgments when it comes to Dean's eating usually happen when Dean is happy eating instead of sad eating (or when Sam at least perceives him to be happy eating).

I think the specific connection between Dean's drinking and hell may also play a role here. Sam failed Dean deeply on the hell front and I think he knows it. I won't even mince words: it is Sam's fault that Dean never talks about hell. Dean was opening up between 4.08 and 4.11, but because of Sam's cruel turn in his framing of that traumatic experience, Dean's hell trauma is forever the silent looming thing that no one talks about. Not Sam, not Dean, not anybody. Getting judgy about Dean drinking to fall asleep could easily open cracks in Dean's own self-imposed wall and Sam is smart enough not to scratch at it. Not just for Dean's sake, but for his own, because that betrayal intersects deeply with Dean's broken trust in Sam in season 5, and if there is one thing Sam's ego absolutely cannot take, it's reminders of moments where he proved Dean could not trust him.

[lol-jackles]

Since you’re in casting, I’d love to pick your brain a little about selecting actors. I love that Jared is a constantly rising star, but in the most loving way possible, he really isn’t the best actor. 80% of the time when I’m watching him, it feels like I’m watching someone acting. He’s not the most natural Versus someone whose performance I get lost in. That doesn’t mean I’m not going to watch everything he does, and it kind of seems standard for cable network TV (for example, I feel the same ways about Nathan Fillion, David Boreanaz, Matthew Daddario - but it doesn’t make me like them any less). Honestly, the only network TV show they didn’t make me feel that was is Hannibal, and even that was only the leading actors.

I would have assumed that acting ability would be the most important part, but your page has made me realize it’s more than that, and let’s be honest, Vampire Diaries wouldn’t haven’t gotten that far if acting was the most important skill set needed. I’m guessing for the Jared’s and David’s their entire history counts most, but what about for someone just getting hired - the Jared getting the Gilmore Girl’s role or the David getting the Angel role. If they’re acting seems…stiff (wrong word?) what makes a casting director say, ‘you know what, let’s give it to them anyway.’

It’s just such a hard world to break into and I’m guessing there are auditions from people with a little more natural talent, so what makes that final decision?

(Asking as someone who is about to start the audition process)

I think what Jared (and Nathan, David, etc) has doing for him is he acts from his authentic truth. I'll expand on it later in this post. With that said, Jared is a character actor trapped in a leading man role, it's why he's not the "best actor" because people tend to believe that good character actors disappear into their roles by diminishing their screen presence, which you can't do when you're a leading man. You may be picking up on this conflicting issue. Think of Brad Pitt who works best as a supporting actor (X), and struggles a bit as a leading man so he has to throw out nuances and reply more on his raw charisma.

I haven't seen Gilmore Girls but I read Jared was the 2nd or 3rd Dean. Dean was recast because the OG Deans' chemistry with Rory wasn't up to snuff. So that answer your "final decision" question, which is chemistry. David Boreanaz had good chemistry with Sarah Michelle Geller. His chemistry Emily Deschanel in Bones was fine, bordering on good, but it was more fun/odd couple vibe whereas his interaction with Michelle had depth. Whenever Jared and Jensen tell their chemistry audition story in front of the producers, I'm pretty sure they're leaving out that Jared likely had chemistry auditions with other various Dean actors.

My advice on auditions is walk into that room like you’re going to solve their problem. 

Most casting directors talk about wanting auditioning actors to "make bold choices" because they believe it will get in touch with their authentic self and therefore, make them a captivating performer. My advice is adjust the text to your authentic emotion so that you're reacting to the events of the story from your internal truth. It doesn’t matter if the story is a sci-fi, comedy, or a period piece drama: if we don’t believe the actors, we won’t care what happens to them in the story. The audience is an incredible lie-detector: the average person has, for their entire life, been storing countless passive data on how normal people react to various situations, so you can’t fool them.  

My CD used to say that it's easier to tell the truth on camera than it is to lie because once you believe in yourself, then you're not acting anymore. I don't 100% agree with her but that seems to be what most CDs think.

The more confidently you use yourself as a canvas and let the context of the scene speak through your own emotional repertoire and point of view, the more compelling and interesting you are to watch. The most interesting or captivating actor is the one whose next movement, facial expression, or line reading is unpredictable. That's the difference between Jeff Bridges (unpredictable) and Beu Bridges (reliable).

[johaerys-writes]

Hi! I’m pretty new to the world of Achilles and Patroclus (I read The Song Of Achilles last month) and I just saw your post about your love for them. When you said “there's just so much stuff out there about them (tsoa, hades game, the iliad, a bunch of other myths and adaptations, non fiction books, academic papers etc)” I was wondering if you could touch on the other myths and adaptations part maybe? I’m not exactly sure where to begin there but I would appreciate any guidance you could give!

Oh boy I don't know where to start either because there's a LOT. I don't want to overwhelm you so I'll just list a few key myths and adaptations off the top of my head:

Adaptations

So as far as adaptations go, I will include works where both Achilles and Patroclus show up and that are inspired by the Iliad.

Hades Game: I'm pretty sure you're already familiar with this, just mentioning it just in case!

Aristos the musical: it's a musical as the name suggests, and it revolves around Achilles and Patroclus' lives from Pelion all the way to Troy. It's really lovely and has made me emotional on numerous occasions and I love revisiting it every so often! It also has a Tumblr account: @aristosmusical

Troilus and Cressida: this is Shakespeare's take on the Trojan War and it's quite interesting, not really faithful to the Iliad but offers a sort of different perspective on the characters and the events that led to Hector's death.

Achilles (1995) by Barry JC Purves: it's a short stop motion film using clay puppets, it's on Youtube and it's only 11 mins and I think it's worth a watch! I find it very compelling visually and any adaptation where Achilles and Patroclus are lovers is a plus in my book 🫶

Holding Achilles: this is an Australian stage production by the Dead Puppet Society, I really enjoyed it and I found it an interesting blend of TSOA and Iliad Patrochilles, which also featured some cool new elements that I hadn't really seen before. It used to be free to watch for a while but now I think you have to pay to watch it, there's more info on their website.

The Silence of the Girls: a novel by Pat Barker, it's a take on the events of the Iliad mostly through Briseis' eyes, I personally didn't really like the book or the characterisations but hey both Achilles and Patroclus are in it so it might be worth a read.

There are some other novels I've heard of where Achilles and Patroclus appear (A Thousand Ships by Natalie Haynes, Wrath Goddess Sing by Maya Deane) and also a TV show called Troy: Fall of a City but I haven't read/watched them so I can't really rec them

Myths

Most myths revolve around Achilles, there aren't that many with Patroclus I'm afraid, but here are some of my favourites:

Achilleid by Publius Papinius Statius: this is an epic poem about Achilles' stay on Skyros disguised as a girl and his involvement with Deidameia. It's interesting but I'd personally take the characterisations and events in it with a grain of salt because Romans were notorious for their unsympathetic portrayal of Greek Homeric heroes but it's still a cool thing that's out there and free to read online.

Iphigenia at Aulis: a tragedy by the ancient Greek playwright Euripides, it's basically the dramatised version of the myth of Iphigenia's sacrifice in Aulis which predates the Iliad, there are many obscure versions of this myth but Euripides' sort of updated version is my favourite, I will never shut up about this play!! Lots of a nuance and very interesting portrayals of Achilles, Agamemnon, Menelaus, Clytemnestra, Iphigenia and pretty much everyone in there, well worth a read.

Lost plays: there are several plays in which Achilles appears but that have been lost or survive only in fragments, but two of my favourites are Euripides' Telephus and Aeschylus' Myrmidons. Telephus takes place before the Trojan War, while the Greeks are on their way to Troy. I really like Achilles' characterisation in the fragments that remain and also the fact that he was already renowned for his knowledge of medicine and healing despite how young he was. The fragments that survive from Aeschylus' Myrmidons I think are fewer but the play was extremely popular at the time it was presented to the public and it sparked a lot of controversy re: Achilles and Patroclus' relationship and who tops/bottoms so I think that's kind of funny lol.

There are lots of other obscure little myths about Achilles that I've picked up by reading various books, papers and wiki posts on the matter and that are just too numerous to list here, but what I will mention and that I think concludes the myths section of this post pretty neatly is that the Iliad and the Odyssey are not the only works about the Trojan War that were written, merely the only works that survived. The rest of the books in the Epic Cycle have been preserved either in fragmentary form or in descriptions in other works, and I think the Epic Cycle wiki page is a good place to start if you want to get an idea of what each of those books contained.

I hope this helped! 💙

[ardentpoop]

guys please. you can’t be pissing in my cornflakes like this do you even know how fucking insane I am abt sam. is it not clear from the posts I make that you are adding tags like this to 💀

1) the thing abt “vibes” vs story structure is exactly what I am calling the fandom out for - going for the low-hanging fruit (pun intended Ha Ha) every single time rather than putting serious thought into the central characters and unpacking the horrific biases in the canon which are what contribute to sam being such a one-of-a-kind and easily life-changing character.

2) people who “like good writing and care about the mechanics of a story” DO last long with spn, and most of them are sam stans for a reason. it is a buffet of storytelling challenges (only lightly picked-over by the writers) and we’re here to actually eat lmfao.

3) I’ve said it before and I’ll say it a million more times if I have to - dean’s “struggle with masculinity” (debatable) is NOT inherently queer. he is in fact a character that perfectly embodies the ideal (hyper)masculine hero and is very clearly a product of the misogynistic and homophobic beliefs of the writers who shaped him. the fandom seizing on tiny moments where dean deviates from performing his masculinity as strictly (which btw is TYPICAL and EXPECTED for most if not all cishet Manly Men irl) as proof that he is secretly an entirely different person even though his identity is at its CORE one of the Good Son and the American Soldier and the Playboy and later the Tough Father like his own Tough Father before him… is frankly infuriating to me. he is not a subversive character - he is the archetype. what you should be questioning about dean is his framing as a hero and a family man based on his series-spanning patterns of behavior, but this fandom largely does not do that even a little bit. because they are here for “vibes” and ship bait and not storytelling.

4) sam is THE. the SINGLE most interesting character in this entire mess of a show by leaps and bounds if you’re watching closely. there are infinitely more layers to him to peel back than there are for any other main character in large part because of his position as the sidekick, the partner, the other, the “freak.” dean speaks more loudly than sam does which in a story with writing this inconsistent and periodically inept, means that a far more competent fan writer can come in and tease sam’s voice out based on the abundance of character-building potential the show’s writers dropped or eventually undermined.

TL;DR mandatory full rewatch for everyone in this fucked up fandom with their eyes glued to sam and a paper bag over dean’s head. or I’ll kill myself <3

[monstermoviedean]

it's honestly beyond wild how easily dean lets cas off for some pretty irredeemable, unforgiveable stuff with no understanding or even acknowledgement on cas' part of the kind of incredible actual-no-strings gift he's been given (and thrown away, rinse, repeat). i can appreciate the take that it just goes to show how deeply braindead in love dean is (and i might still be able to find the romance in it if there was ever any kind of equal or at least comparable weight on cas' end) but he can do (and has done) (and deserves) so much better! rip!! on a list of all dean's boyfriends ranked in order of how well they treated him cas would come in dead last.. can't even rate him over the ones that tried to kill dean because uh cas has not only done that too but also done that more than most (without even factoring in the mind control) lol wanky maybe but that doesn't make it untrue womp womp

anyway the trap effectively killed many of my charitable feelings for cas and despair took care of much of the rest. i know you're not there yet and still manage some warmth for cas besides (plus my post s15 cas/destiel opinions probably trend significantly more harshly than even the rare and wonderful few who have been openly critical of both that aren't br*nly/c*sties, i can acknowledge that lol) but after the trap and knowing what's still to come, it's very difficult for me to see cas-as-dean's-endgame being a positive thing for dean. that may be what he wants but like please for the love @ him: want better!!! i mean, s6 was tough but also so crunchy and opened the door for a world of (tragically unrealized) possibilities. the shadow that s15 and everything leading up to it casts over all of that is just.. so so long. there's been so many opportunities for cas to be better and he just. wastes them.

i'm so interested to see what your takeaway from despair is because it left me feeling kind of hollow on destiel and deeply skeptical of cas when stacked up against everything else. cas may be in love with his idea of dean but he's proven over and over again that he's either incapable of or unwilling to be and see dean as an equal, loving partner. idk if it's a fault in the writing (feels like a cop out to pin things on that though, especially when cas is actually written fairly consistently compared to most other characters) or just that mc isn't as dynamic/effective an actor as jackles but i find myself less and less convinced of cas' sincerity as time goes on. he's wildly selfish. i think it's far easier to make the argument in canon that everything he's done, including that confession, has been far more selfishly motivated than motivated by any genuine love or care for dean (or jack for that matter). maybe an uncharitable assessment, but not an unfounded one.

what dean says about angel's caring and cas playing sorry in 7x21 and cas insisting he's "a lot like people" to rowena's (very apt) assessment of him in 10x22 are always top of my mind when i try to make sense of cas in the aftermath. he's not sorry, he's playing sorry. he's not people, he's performing people. angels don't have souls and i'm not sure i really buy grace as a substitute but, even if i did, cas' has been waning for a very long time (which i wish had been explored more considering all of the weight the canon puts on having a soul). cas isn't that far removed from donatello who, in his soullessness, turned to mr rogers for behavioral cues. cas holds dean in that role, he's just not especially good at emulating him. or maybe just doesn't understand what it is he should be emulating. all of that to say that i really, truly believe cas wants to feel people feelings (feelings is dean as people is dean as humanity is dean etc etc etc), i'm just not sure if i buy that it's ever more than performance for him.

like fanfic is great, i love fanfic! post s15 fix-its moving further and further away from the "dean pulls his head out of his ass" model is such a gift!! but in actual canon?? ough. cas' very long, very well established patterns make canon destiel a super hard sell for me in a post s15 world. there's no reason to believe that things would ever change because, to the bitter end(?), they never did.

anyway anyway, i'm sorry for using your inbox as a rantbox and i fully understand if you ignore this, i know parts of it might be kind of a powder keg lol it's hard to not be cynical and frustrated by so much squandered potential i suppose, especially when so much of the fandom popular opinions on these things have been just so. bad and wrong. for so long. it's been a relief to see some of those tides turning as more people revisit the source material, though! please just know that i really have enjoyed following along on your rewatch and appreciate how much thought and care you put into understanding this show and these characters. i'm looking forward to seeing where what's left of the journey takes you!

there are some points here i agree with and some i don't, but i can entirely see where you're coming from. i just want to extend some love to you because yeah, sometimes this story is really incredibly frustratingly sad and bleak. also no need to apologize, i love inbox rants <3

i'm publishing this because i think there are a lot of interesting points of discussion about cas and his relationship with dean. blanket statement for anyone who might read it: i am not interested in cas-bashing or anon-bashing. don't do that here. or anywhere, frankly.

to start off: it IS beyond wild that dean lets cas off for some things. breaking sam's wall is the first example that comes to mind. i mean wow, good for dean for being the bigger person and forgiving there, but holy shit.

i'm gonna politely disagree with you on cas treating dean badly. i do see where you're coming from! this is something i've talked about before re: cas actually - that sometimes the way dean treats cas is viewed as poor treatment, but in actuality cas doesn't receive it that way at all. so cas' tendency to put the mission first, for example, is something that dean GETS. dean doesn't feel like cas is neglecting him by doing this. i think there are also circumstances in which cas' actions are understandable, even if i don't like them. and a lot of the "constant apocalypse" problems lead to responses that don't have a real-world equivalent. all that being said, i think one thing cas could fix/address is answering his phone when dean calls him.

on dean doing better - i think people in dean's life could and should treat him better. i also think he loves and cares about those people and would not trade them out, and i respect that.

on cas being better - mixed feelings on this. i totally understand where you're coming from and don't want to invalidate you here or at any point! i think cas is trying to be better. i think he's locked into a pattern where he only sees one option for being better - fixing things / getting wins / sacrificing himself / otherwise protecting dean and sparing dean harm. i feel for him there, i really do. smarter people than me have pointed to heaven brainwashing/upbringing as the reason this pattern exists. so i don't expect him to break out of that pattern, but i do think it's reasonable to wish he had come to recognize that this DOES harm dean. i think cas often believes he knows how dean feels. sometimes he's right, sometimes he's wrong. and in this case while dean can understand why cas is doing what he's doing and respect his decisions enough to not put up a fight about them, it does hurt dean to watch cas walk away into certain danger over and over. it especially hurts when dean has no power in the situation and is left with nothing to do but to hope cas comes back.

so i have actually seen 15x18 and have some feelings about it but i don't want to comment until i see it again. i know i missed a ton of context the first time i watched it (november 6 2020 after not having watched the show in a few years), and i'm interested to see how my interpretation changes!

one opinion i have that i don't think will change: i believe cas' pattern of keeping secrets to protect dean, then having those secrets blow up, causing dean pain and/or causing cas to leave, is not disrupted. i believe 15x18 reinforces this pattern, in fact. and i do not like that. i do appreciate that cas did it for love and he was backed into a horrible corner, and at the same time, from dean's perspective, it's another example of cas leaving.

on cas not seeing dean as an equal partner. hoooo boy, this one gave me pause. i am very conflicted about this, to be honest. i think cas THINKS he sees dean as an equal partner, but i'm not sure he actually does. i'm also not sure he treats him like one. consistently, at least. i think they're equals when they're dealing with "ordinary" problems (monsters, people), but when the problems are angel-level or higher, i think cas thinks he has more ability to solve those problems than dean does. sometimes he's right (cas should be the one talking to michael in 15x08, for example). but not always. and i could see that coming across as patronizing. i want to think more about this one!

on cas' selfishness. this is tough because i think cas is trying to be selfless in a way that comes across as selfish. he wants to be the hero. he believes he can be the hero. he wants to spare others from being the hero. and while that's usually well-intentioned (taking on burdens so others don't have to), it can read as "no one else is capable of this but me." and i think the major problem is that cas looks at things from a 30,000-foot level. he is often less concerned with the ground-level impacts. so when he's, idk, saying yes to lucifer, he's thinking "someone has to and it may as well be me" but he's not thinking "oh shit dean is going to have to watch lucifer parade me around and then kill me." while i understand his reasoning in these high-stakes no-win situations and i'm not mad about it, i do wish he would consider the impacts of his small decisions on others more often. sorry to bring up the phone thing again but it's the best example i've got - it would be nice if cas made it more of a priority to answer his phone when dean calls because it's important to dean, even if it isn't important to cas. it will help dean feel more secure and they will have a nice conversation because they enjoy talking to each other. we have hints of this kind of thing happening but i would like to see it more clearly and consistently. or like. icing sam out during the rupture was pretty shitty. he could have at least texted back. (yes he was in a bad spot, no he doesn't have to respond to sam all the time, but a little 'i'm not dead' text would have made a big difference)

i think "uncharitable but not unfounded" is very understandable. i, personally, believe cas loves and cares about dean. i also could come up with some examples of cas' actions that, regardless of intent, communicate to dean that this is not true. i think if you want to make a case that cas doesn't care, you can. i wouldn't agree with it, and i think there's a better case that cas does care, but i do recognize that the show itself leaves that door open. and it does bother me. i would feel better if cas showed more consistent and obvious care for dean TO dean.

i think cas does confuse/equate feeling guilty with feeling sorry. i think he does both, but sometimes he is playing sorry. i think his defense of jack at the end of s14 contradicts his claims of being sorry, for example. but i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he is actually sorry most of the other times.

on cas' feelings - i see where you're coming from, and i disagree here. i think cas does have feelings, even if he doesn't always know what they are or how to process them. someone (i think ilarual?) made a cool post about cas growing a soul that i thought was a neat idea. but i can certainly sympathize with wanting the show to do more with angels, grace, angel feelings, etc.

i do believe cas is sincere in his care and in wanting to do better, and that's one reason i have faith in dean and cas being able to work it out and be good for each other! i think that's a major difference between our perspectives. and i don't have an answer here, because again, i see where you're coming from. if you're open to it, i might suggest considering cas' actions from a perspective that he's 100% sincere 100% of the time. it might be interesting to try, even if it doesn't change your opinions at all (and you definitely don't have to try it or change your opinions).

one million billion trillion percent agree on squandered potential. there are so many problems we've discussed here that i think could be fixed with attention and goodwill. but will they be fixed? sigh. i don't know. i like to believe so, but cynicism is also a fair response. i think a lot of my feelings come down to this question: if the show had continued, would 15x18 have been a turning point? would it have finally allowed dean and cas to change their relationship? or would it have set it in stone, never to be changed again? i think it's a matter of interpretation. i tend toward the former - that 15x18 would have changed everything and allowed them space to finally get it right - but i can also see why the latter works, especially because the show ending DID set it in stone that way.

it HAS been a relief to see shifts in conversation, and i hope they continue. and thank you so so much for your very kind words! they are not necessary but they are appreciated :) i often feel like i'm just fumbling around in the dark compared to a lot of others, and it's nice to hear i haven't completely mucked it up. also i really enjoyed answering this, so thanks for giving me so much to chew on!

[this-is-a-love-story-isnt-it]

When I told one of my friends that I’ve been watching Lois and Clark, he told me I should check out “Superman and Lois”, which is the most recent live action Superman show. I’m not into Superman stuff usually. Lois and Clark is different because Superman plays such a small part most of the time. The show first and foremost is about Lois and Clark and their love story. superman is secondary. Obviously the show is also about Clark being Superman and there are some episodes that are completely centered on Superman. But in general Superman takes a back seat and Clark is in the front seat.

When Smallville was on, I think I might have watched one season (or less) and didn’t like it enough to continue. I was surprised to find out that it ended up being on for 10 years.

So anyway, I decided to check out “Superman and Lois” on my friend’s recommendation. It started in 2021 and season 4 is coming out soon. Anyway, I’ve watched 5 episodes so far and it’s pretty “meh”. It’s too cinematic and it takes itself too seriously, imo. That version of Lois is VERY different from the Lois and Clark: TNAOS version. She’s too chill and serious. Clark/Superman is similar in that he’s what they’ve referred to Clark as in other superman media- “mild mannered”. But honestly the Superman and Lois version of Lois and Clark are kinda boring lmao. And the actors have zero chemistry. I muuuuuuch prefer Teri Hatcher’s Lois and Dean Cain’s Clark/Superman. Both of those characters are so much more dynamic. Lois especially is written thay way and Teri Hatcher brings her to life. That version of Clark , even though he’s “mild mannered” he plays it differently. He’s so much more expressive and has more personality. And of course his and Lois’ chemistry is off the charts.

In Superman and Lois I think the most interesting part of the show is their teenage sons and their storylines, tbh lol.

The only thing I like better on Superman and Lois is the Superman suit. Lol it’s so cheesy in Lois and Clark.

I might keep watching it, idk. It will probably end up being the show I put on while I do my diamond paintings and I won’t be 100% paying attention.

[ruinedsam]

I have so many thoughts concerning a supernatural where Hallucifer was actually part of Lucifer, so I’ll do multiple asks to prevent an essay in your inbox. There’s even more potential angst of Hallucifer also being a bit of Lucifer tagging along with Sam out of the Cage when we get to season 11. Most of the seasons proceeded as in canon, except Lucifer has been there the whole time for Sam because Castiel was unable to fully remove Lucifer’s grace because weakened or not, Lucifer’s an archangel and there’s a bond between Lucifer and his true vessel that Castiel can’t fully break. Castiel and Sam had a fairly tense dynamic for a while because Sam understandably had issues here over Castiel nearly breaking his mind, knowing what was at stake because Castiel was one of the people warning Dean over the possible consequences. But they eventually reach what they do in canon and consider each other friends, and we get to the point when Sam enters the cage. Lucifer has been aware of everything topside, because part of his Grace has been with Sam the whole time, and we see just how well Lucifer and Sam have grown to know one another over the years. I think we should have seen some kind of bond exist between angel and true vessel, so yeah, there’s this weird sense of “I know you because you are me” and Sam occasionally gets flickers of Lucifer’s thoughts because Lucifer has been a part of Sam this whole time; Sam has explicitly linked it to the demon blood at some point in a parallel of “I can’t ever rip it out or scrub it clean.” Demon blood vs angelic possession but this angel is considered the father of demons and Sam was only fed the demon blood so Lucifer could rise. But vessel shenanigans are going on and over time, we’ve seen Sam gradually adopt some of Lucifer’s mannerisms. Dean sees him one day and just can’t shake this feeling of dread crawling up his spine but he doesn’t know why, Sam’s actions are at once terrifyingly familiar and jarringly strange; he goes to his room and we see a flashback of Lucifer!Sam in “The End,” with current!Sam’s behavior being something Dean saw Lucifer do then. Anyways, Sam still heads to the Cage and says no, but Castiel says yes as in canon. It needs to be that Sam and Cas have only recently gotten to a stable place in which Sam actually trusts him, so that right when they’ve recovered from Cas breaking his wall, Castiel chooses to let Lucifer in; he is the one who didn’t notice Lucifer was there with Sam when he got Sam’s body out of the Cage, he is the one who broke Sam’s mind to neutralize Dean and Bobby, and now he is the guy who almost let Lucifer around Sam unknowingly. But I also think that due to having spent years with Lucifer, Sam knows Lucifer, better than anyone, so when Lucifer!Castiel shows up the first time, Sam immediately knows who it is and calls him out. And far from being upset or angry that his disguise was blown, Lucifer is thrilled because here is the undeniable proof that Sam knows Lucifer, Sam will never be able to ignore this now because Dean was fooled yet Sam knew within a minute. 1/4

👀👀👀👀👀

Oooh this is delicous 🥰That there is some inextrincable bond between an angel and their vessel would make so much sense! I really like the way this dooms Sam. He's Lucifer's true vessel and there's no way to escape that. Lucifer will always be with him in some way. And of course Castiel wouldn't be able to break (or necessarily even recognize) this bond, he's just a regular angel.

Oh man I would have so loved to see this on screen! Jared is so good with subtle but noticeable mannerisms that distinguish the different characters, it would be amazing to see this over the course of some time, obviously not all viewers would catch it but for those who'd do the payoff of the reveal would be so good!

I find it really interesting to think about how Sam would perceive these things, especially when he has these flickers of thought from Lucifer. I like the idea of him not being aware of it at all, he and Lucifer are so enmeshed it doesn't register that thought didn't come from himself. But I also like the idea of Sam being aware of it and interpreting it as a trauma response and being like help I'm so fucked up I'm starting to think like Lucifer. Or he could be aware that he's receiving thoughts from the actual Lucifer, having to face that he and Lucifer are still linked, he may be out of the cage but that doesn't mean he's escaped from Lucifer...

Castiel letting Lucifer free behind Sam and Dean's back just after he and Sam started to have a good relationship is evil, so obviously I love it. And yeah Sam should notice it's Lucifer and Lucifer should be so pleased it about it!!! Sam and Lucifer knowing each other in ways no one else does is so close to my heart <333

[jim-bones-spock]

Okay, alright, here’s my analysis of seasons 5 and 6 of Community, starting with Repilot (an episode that lives rent free in my mind!!!)

Repilot is the epitome of what I’m trying to say, it’s meta and dissecting the very essence of the show, since it’s a literal “do over” (Re-Pilot)

The ironic thing is that Jeff would have succeeded in his law practice if there wasn’t a season 5, but since we need him back at Greendale, Jeff fails.

Hard.

The episode is basically a huge mirror from the pilot episode.

The same character from season 1’s inciting incident, Allan, sends Jeff back to school. We see what Jeff would have become if he didn’t go to Greendale for four years, so we at least have this parallel to go on.

Our Jeff is not that defeated that he would go as low as Allan, right?

Right????

We already see Jeff’s delusion with the world, he’s back to his cynical self, drinking and wallowing. His red tie almost undone vs the red superhero suit in his commercial. It’s already darker but the narrative needs him in school, so it has to be a little extreme.

Then, Jeff goes back to Greendale. Immediately Leonard is there, blowing raspberries. Jeff sees his and Annie’s trophy. We’re having a much better time, even if it’s not for a long time.

Because Greendale has turned the camp and the chaos and the sheer stupidity to eleven. Because the narrative needs to remind us of how detached from reality the school is. Because it’s a TV show. There’s a class about ladders, for god’s sake.

It needs to be this wacky because the show has now shifted to: We’re gonna save Greendale. We’re gonna save the show, like it’s been saved on Yahoo.ca, whatever it takes.

When they get to the study room, the table has been buried - the show has been buried, too, but when everyone comes back (Abed: the Dean called me, I called everyone else) just like the pilot, they put life back into it.

Abed is still Jeff’s mirror here, and suggests that Jeff becomes a teacher at the school, because it would be the most TV-logical thing to do, especially since Jeff got his diploma in education hello!??

I LOVE how Jeff is like absolutely not. He’s still fighting the narrative, trying to make sense of his new role.

The Dean also has a very interesting speech about “Greendale is a good place for good people, that old spiel” basically having a cynical view of seasons 1-3 and making fun of the initial message of the show. We already know this, but Greendale has changed. Or maybe, Jeff has changed and is now starting to see the cracks.

Coming back to the study room, they immediately start to fall back into old patterns of bickering, because they all have something to hide and are too proud to admit they are miserable. Shirley brings them back to reality before they get too far. Once again, rooting us slowly into reality.

Jeff, for his part, forgot how good it felt to be bad. When he beats down Allan with his own tie… woof, that was rough. He takes the tie. Takes charge. Wants his own identity back, because it’s much easier to be bad than good. Much easier to pretend that he doesn’t care, than actually caring. Caring got him hurt.

Then Chang appears and makes fun of the absurdity of his character. It’s easy to see here, because when said out loud, Chang’s development is the most extreme. Like come on, amnesia? Get a grip, show!!!

Jeff then feels he has been robbed of his identity and starts to point out each character’s development:

Britta was an eclectic anarchist. She is now the airhead, which is heartbreaking and I don’t want to think about season 1 Britta too much or I go insane.

Shirley began the show by taking back her independence from her cheating husband and is now the one who cheated ???

Annie lost her go-getter attitude and settled for a job she hates.

Abed, multiple breakdowns. Like, at least one per season.

Troy’s Clive Owen Tumblr (what is his url u think) but no, seriously, always being with Abed and nothing else.

They did ended up like mixed up cartoons, and not only because of the “gas leak year”. They’ve become stereotypes, as sitcom characters often do. They’ve evolved, but perhaps not in the original direction intended, or not where we left then in season 3.

Now, it’s time for them to Get Something Back. Their narratives.

Annie says to Jeff: Greendale is in your hands. And it is. If Jeff talks long enough, he can make the people around him do things. It’s his power. Greendale’s fate is in his hands.

Then, Abed throws his words back at him: you make us see the right truth.

And that could be that Greendale is a place worth saving!!!! Jeff knows that, because, as usual, with one sentence, Abed has thrown off his resolve. Maybe Jeff needs to show them another thruth. But Jeff needs one last convincing first.

The Pierce hologram is my favorite. The fact that only Jeff could see it for some reason, echoes season 1 when Pierce was more of a grumpy grandpa that sometimes gave Jeff some nugget of wisdom and acted like a distorted father figure. Same here.

Jeff walks back in the school, screaming to the Dean about his power to destroy the place. But he won’t do it. He’s so desperate for something to matter once more and for that thing not to be dark and twisted.

And then. And Then. The Dean offers him a job.

Teacher.

The way Jeff looks up as he would be talking to god (non specific) when he whispers “Screw you Abed” as soon as he sees his path laid out for him: become a teacher at the school who, he thinks, stole 4 years of his life. He looks up like he’s delivering a monologue in theater, like he’s alone, like he’s praying.

As you can see, I feel VERY normal about the acting choices.

Screw you, Abed. Screw you, TV show. Screw you, logical way for my character to stay and have the rest of my story be mine, or trying to be.

The table burns, but that’s okay, because they build a new one together. This is truly theirs, now. They have the power to do anything.

And Jeff, well…

Jeff still, in his darkest moments, thought of his friends. In his most ironic moment, looked UP to Abed/his mirror/the narrative and said “Screw you…

…I’ll do it anyway.”

[ginger-grimm]

I think Chicago Med continues to be best show of One Chicago verse currently running. It doesn't seem to be bogged down too much by budget cuts and the storylines aren't mindnumbingly repetitive and boring.

As for this episode and expectations for the next: I thought this episode was fine, pretty melodramatic, probably the most boring one this season so far. I have a hard time believing Dean will actually quit. But also Steven Webber's performance has somewhat grown on me. I know people would probably rejoice if he left and he still has his annoying moments, but I think he has potential. Anyways, yeah, that whole storyline seems pretty odd to me in general but drama's gotta drama.

Sarah being back is probably the plottwist of the century. I was entirely convinced Rachel DiPillo had stopped acting for good. I don't think she'll come back for good, or even more than this one episode, but maybe, hopefully, her issues with Daniel can be adressed. The storyline with Sarah's father was certainly the downslide into the soap opera drama of season 4 and I hated how Sarah switching to psychology ruined their father/daughterly bond.

I kind of figured that the radiology doc was not the culprit. I did think of him at first but it should have occured to me that the herring was too red. I do wonder who it will be in the end. Rewatching the Halloween ep and seeing certain body parts in the promo, it looks like a woman. I just wonder if it's someone already introduced (which would be a nicer payoff) or a letdown with some rando who got fired.

Anyways, so far, Dr. Frost continues to be my favorite new character. I think his character brings something interesting back to the show. An intriguing backstory that you could do much with than just the jokes. Just saying, lampshading the way kids are treated in Hollywood would be interesting to explore.

[egipci]

what do you think it is exactly that's stopping the daemyra pairing from being more compelling? bc i feel the exact same way and i can't pinpoint it. is it just the show not hitting the right points and letting it kind of blur into the background... is it an acting problem, a chemistry problem? i think rhaenyra by herself is great and matt smith is really bizarrely ugly imo but a very good actor and from the beginning i had faith in him to play daemon (and i'm still enjoying him for the most part). also its not like one or both parties being ugly has stopped me from getting into a pairing before but i just for the life of me cannot bring myself to feel anything about them at all. i am kind of a lowkey viserys/daemon shipper but again that's not something that on paper would have stopped me from also caring about d/r? i feel like that's been the consensus amongst casual viewers too tbh, having read the book(s) i expected more outrage from my normie friends over the incest but more than one of them has complained about being bored with those two. it's gnawing at me. idk would be interested to hear your thoughts

Hello hello <3 I had to take a minute to think more about this beyond "the vibes are just not there anymore” lol, because I actually really did enjoy the ship in S1a, even though I vastly prefer Emma D'Arcy and older Rhaenyra to Milly Alcock (and she was great in her own right) and despite Matt Smith's... unconventional charm. And while I do think the actors still have plenty of chemistry, and I can be persuaded to care more, at this point I just find myself wondering 'what do these characters like about each other? what is this relationship like?’

The thing I have found particularly attractive about incest (and even more inter-generational incest) is that it's inherently a shorthand for deep history and affection and obligation (kinda like childhood best friends to lovers in that way) -- I don't need to see Daemon meet Rhaenyra for the first time as a new-born to like, imagine the feeling of meeting a very little person related to you for the first time and the parental feelings that inspires. And of course an uncle/niece relationship is per se about the nexus character, namely the brother/father, and so far the show has delivered on that front. Viserys is their third because he's the raison d'etre of the relationship, but I can't figure what else is going on there, I don't know what inspires the romantic turn. Daemon is a parental figure to her, but he's not just that, and that's the reason the relationship is permissible in their world in the first place, but what else is there? In ep 2x4 little Rhaenyra articulates what the initial draw was for her, and then again adult Rhaenyra does the same in ep 6, but what is it to Daemon? What does he like about her? Like, I know why I like watching her as a character, but what does he like about her?

Not to make everything about j/d but for the sake of illustration --- j/d is a parent/child relationship obviously, and whenever I write them the central motif is that deep paternal love but that's not enough to explain the sexual turn (whether consummated or un). There has to be some extra something there, which is in the case of J/D the 20+ years of history and partnership between them, which we only see glimpses of. But I factually know that in canon it existed, and I can still see its impacts on Dean all the way to the very last scene of the show. There's a reason I find J/D more plausible than J/S, even though John feels the same profound affection and devotion towards Sam.

I have no sense of that history with D/R. I can fill in the blanks when we first meet them in ep 1, but that can only go so far, because the adapted text leads me to believe there is no such history between them. There is no canon opportunity for that relationship to develop. We have a few scenes with them between s1 ep 1-2, then there's a three year time jump to ep. 4 during which they haven't seen each other, between 5 and 7 there are ten years where these characters do not interact, unlike in the book. Their reconciliation in ep. 7 feels more like a grief-fueled political alliance than a rekindling of a torrid affair, which is of course plenty interesting as a foundation for a relationship, but then we immediately jump six years into the future in ep8. Presumably any given relationship is different at year 20 from what it was at year 0, I just don't know much about how this particular relationship has evolved. I know they have had sex in the interim because I see they have kids, but that's about it. And it's unfortunate, because the show has been able to deliver real-feeling relationships in very limited scenes between Rhaenyra and Laenor, for example, or Aegon with his parents and Otto in S1. And to be sure the D/R relationship doesn't lack nuance, it just doesn't have the emotional resonance to me of a romance between soulmates like the show runners describe it. From a Rhaenyra-centric pov it simply feels like getting with your high school crush after many years in-between and it's just not working out as you would have hoped. From a Daemon-pov, Rhaenyra just feels like a consolation prize. And also both of them used to date the same guy. And ironically, I actually find that intriguing enough, I just feel like I'm being gaslighted by the show runners and its fans about what I'm actually watching.

Like I said before, incest aside, I think this is a very common problem in conveying romance in visual media, or at least a common experience for me as a viewer (which is why I consider myself a pretty non-shipper normie). Obviously there are many many people who ship it and spend a lot of time thinking about it out there, so it's not unpopular by any stretch, and I think fandom and transformative works are completely valid ways to deepen your investment in canon and the characters, but it takes a lot for me to reach that level of interest.

As to your impression of the normie consensus: that seems more or less accurate to me --- none of my normie friends have seen s2 yet, but I do watch a lot of reaction videos (lol) and people seem more invested in the dragons and the overall family drama and politics than in the romantic dimension to D/R. Though to be fair, I don't know that any of the romantic relationships on the show are particularly attractive. Corlys and Rhaenys were wonderful, and I'm intrigued by Cole/Alicent (and Alicent/Aegon in headcanon land), but it's a pretty sexless show on the whole. Like, even Baela and Jace have taken vows of chastity until marriage or something, it's very strange.

Re: Viserys/Daemon: <3 I think it's wonderful actually! I haven't finished F&B and I haven't read any of the other books so I don't know if there is some gay incest down the line, but I don't think there is? Which is bizarre of course because why wouldn't two siblings of the same gender develop a relationship in the fucking your siblings family? I think that conflict would have been tremendously intriguing to explore, and I can so easily see Daemon as a character attached to his vision of Targaryen godhood pushing that permission even further to fuck his brother. As it were it's completely consistent with the show and with Daemon's chemistry with male characters, and holds a lot of explanatory value for him as a character, but I do wish it were made more explicit. And this is coming from someone who generally finds sibling incest pretty meh to squicky. In a different world I would write about them, but all this canon is enough for me!

[hudbannonarchive]

soulless sam is also interesting to me in the ways you can compare him to other characters on the show who become soulless. i’m looking at donatello specifically bc for the most part soullessness does not seem to have any averse effect on him which is 100% the result of bad writing but is fascinating because like. conceptually soullessness was introduced into the show to turn sam into the perfect hunter (and in doing so reveal how far from that his character normally is - for the better) but then characters who were not hunters begin to lose their souls so they had to write around that which in turn speaks to the specific circumstances of sam’s character. which is something they play with in s6 but is deepened by the later interactions with soullessness as a concept. sticking to s6 you get dean’s line about soulless sam “now i’m worried he’s just acting like me” which (and i kind of hate to say this bc it sounds like woobification altho when have i ever been afraid of that) speaks to the fact that sam is remarkably compassionate and emotionally intelligent for someone raised in the environment he was. and you can see this plainly in how dissimilar he is to other hunters on the show, but it really becomes clear in s6 with the loss of his soul like. it’s not just that soulless sam IS a better hunter it’s that for for him soullessness exists as a function to MAKE him one. he no longer needs sleep he no longer feels compassion for others. things that once barred him from doing the job effectively are no longer an issue. i feel like spn often plays with the question of nature vs nurture in a really stupid way but this is one of the more compelling uses of it to me bc he is quite literally stripped of his nature and when they leave him with just his nuture, how he was raised, we get a character so different some people actually refuse to acknowledge they are the same person.

[scoobydoodean]

“Loving Dean is a curse that gets other people killed.”

This breaks my heart because this is definitely how Dean sees himself and I hate that for him. I hate that people made him feel that. I hate that the toxic masculinity was so fucking strong that Dean never would’ve bought into therapy. I hate what was done to Dean and how those voices now live inside him and he can’t stop them.

I extra hate it because it was the first time I ever saw a character and saw myself. The difference is that I had someone who loved me enough to push me to do the work and heal. Nobody ever loved Dean enough to live or to actually support him through the work of healing.

Ngl—I don't think toxic masculinity is really Dean's problem? That isn't to say I don't think Dean is a victim of toxic masculinity or that toxic masculinity doesn't affect his life. I just think "Men aren't supposed to feel x" is pretty rarely the reason Dean suppresses something from my perspective.

I actually think when Dean suppresses things (which I think he actually does far less—or at least less effectively—than Sam or Cas) it's usually with quite a lot of awareness about what he is doing (I have a post I need to make about this related to 3.10), and it's because he genuinely cannot afford to fall apart, or feels that he can't afford it. Throughout the whole show, Dean is actively in a war zone or he's repeatedly being thrust back into one and has to be ready to react at any moment. Take season 4—where Dean is freshly returned from arguably the most traumatic experience of his entire life, and is immediately saddled with an apocalypse in which he unwittingly and unwillingly plays a starring role. I haven't had very many experiences I would consider traumatic (and certainly not on Dean's scale), but the one that stands out was not a situation I was mentally capable of healing from while I was still trapped in the situation that was causing me that distress. I had to get out first. 15.19 does set Dean up to escape the war zone, but then 15.20 rips away his right to choose his own path (until The Winchesters) by killing him and writing through decades of time where Dean's feelings and voice are utterly silenced.

I think everyone has their own vision of what healing looks like for Dean. I think for a lot of people, healing looks like a deancas reunion. For one of my friends, healing looks like Dean leaving Sam and Cas behind forever and making his own path away from them jahgdjabjdfnj. For others, it looks like retirement and maybe therapy.

I think tbh the show itself ruined "Dean goes to therapy" for me (especially with 13.04) and also the idea of me really dictating Dean's path at all? (And when I said that to a friend, she said "So Dean is really a real person to you, huh?" jshbfjhsbdajhfb) but I think it's that... what I want for Dean after years of being objectified and used and having his voice silenced, is freedom and endless possibilities—including freedom from my own vision of his ultimate fate? It's so strange because it's almost as if the finale thinks it gave me that with the open road Dean drove along. Yet in reality, it gives me the stifling, nightmarish antithesis—a Dean devoid of determination who looks and feels like he has utterly given up and is just swept along by the tide, silenced, moving through a void, painted with forced happiness/contentment that doesn't feel real. For me, The Winchesters renewed that flame in Dean, but what I want for Dean—personally—looks probably more like... Dean having a knock-down-drag-out vicious fight with almost everyone in his life one by one, where he advocates for his own interest and his right to be heard, and well... wins. 🤭 And then goes on to do absolutely whatever the fuck he wants.

I think Dean does know—he really does—where most of these intrusive thoughts originate from, and a part of him knows these judgements of himself aren't fair ("Dream A Little Dream Of Me" shows us a lot of Dean's awareness, as does "Sam Interrupted") but... hm... I guess for me personally, therapy isn't what I'm looking for for him. But I think it's completely valid that other people want to see that—especially when speaking from their own experiences and the joy they now have that they'd like to share with him.

[deadendtracks]

Missing your brilliant meta posts of late so settling with salty asks.

Peaky Blinders 5,10,13 (Tommy),19 -> the saltier the better! :)

Thank you! I have just been lacking in any ability to concentrate!

5. Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you?

idk if 'ruined' is the right word, but i have found some of the discourse around Grace to be so annoying I haven't felt the urge to explore her character or Tommy/Grace in my own fic.

in SPN fandom I felt the same way about Castiel and Dean/Cas despite theoretically liking it as a ship.

I've written a bunch of meta about Tommy and Grace so I do in theory find them interesting it's just... yeah.

I'm getting there with Tommy/Alfie just because idk. The favored approach to those characters at this point is just so far from canon or from what I find interesting that it's like reading OC fic.

10. Most disliked arc? Why?

the cop out answer is Duke. as someone else said, I can see what the potential might have been, but in reality it felt really tacked on and rough draft stage. I liked parts of it.

i mostly just like this show even when it's not perfect, so i'm not sure what other arc to dislike. most of my dislikes are actually about fandom's interpretations of arcs.

the other cop out answer is grace's arc after season 1, because that's a fairly common critique. i don't hate it and i don't even want anything about it to change, but if this show was more than 6 episodes a season it would have been more satisfying to get a bit more meat there.

13. Unpopular opinion about XXX character?

Which character?

19. What is the one thing you hate most about your fandom?

besides the explosion of OC/Tommy and readerfic, again a cop out answer...

The lizzie vs. grace wars are incredibly tiresome since I hate how both sides approaches their fave and their fave's relationship with Tommy. and i'm just so deeply uninterested in all that.

i think more than 'hate' i am mostly disappointed that there isn't more substantial fic in this fandom. there was never a ton of it, and it makes sense it's dropped off some given the show is finished (pending movie) but i really feel only a tiny fraction of the potential was ever explored in fic for this show on so many levels, and a lot of the fic that does get written tends to deliberately or unconsciously echo a specific ship dynamic/fanfic trope/fanon characterization that i don't enjoy. again, this is the natural life cycle of fandoms but with PB fandom, it was never very prolific to begin with! so it's more crushing to me to see it crystallize already. i don't know why this show never really took off as a (canon) fic fandom or why people seem to prefer readerfic here. That wasn't the case when I first joined 5 years ago, but I guess that's the fandom trend now. As someone else said, I'm just not interested in being railed by that guy. LOL.

[rewatching-sam-and-dean]

The Pilot (Part 2 of 3)

Thanks so much to everyone who checked out my Part 1 post!

To see Part 1, if you missed it and are interested, you can check it out here. Now, on to the next section of SPN S01-E01, and the grown up brothers reuniting. This is probably my favorite aspect of the episode (update: I actually talk about this more in part 3 than 2).

Reunited and It Feels So … Awkward

(But, in a good way)

If you’re interested in my more detailed commentary, check it out under the cut

JARED, JENSEN, and EXPOSITION: Jared and Jensen had a tall order to fill with the Pilot, needing to both give the audience an idea of their relationship as brothers, as well as delivering a good deal of exposition without bogging down the episode's momentum. They do an amazing job with the former and a very decent job with the latter. Their acting choices and chemistry paint a very full picture of who these guys are and what they mean to each other, which I’ll go into more chronologically as examples come up. The exposition of filling us in on the family situation, their dad in particular, and the fact that they are monster hunters is done quite well for the most part. However, while a good deal of it comes across quite naturally, some moments do stand out to me as a bit too rehearsed (the scene with "… Dad gave me a forty-five." "What was he supposed to do?") and can feel a little too expositiony to me now, but that's probably partly because I’ve seen them so much now. However, the scenes are necessary, and as far as the telling vs showing ratio goes, the Pilot does a lot more showing, so overall even this aspect is handled quite well regardless of some moments scratching for me now.

JESSICA: So … where to start on this introduction to the adult Sam and Dean. Actually, let’s start with Jess. She seems great: responsible, punctual, loving, supportive, encouraging, funny, and beautiful. And Sam looks at her like he can’t believe how lucky he is to be with her. Generally, I like her, though we don’t get to see a lot of her. However, I wonder if she would be as supportive if she knew who Sam really was and what he did. The fact that Sam never told her about his past could just be because he wants to put it aside and pretend that part of him doesn’t exist, but given how quickly he givens in when Dean asks for help, he must have known he couldn’t avoid it forever. Denial is not just a river in Egypt…or whatever. Maybe, he’s just trying to protect her, but something could come for him whether she knows about the danger or not (and it does, sadly….damn you, Brady!). On the other hand, maybe he didn’t tell her because he didn’t believe she would have been okay with it. And as Dean sarcastically points out, "That’s healthy." The irony of Dean commenting on healthy relationships, and withholding important information, is just too much knowing what’s coming for the guys. Anyway, regardless of Sam's motivations, Jess does seem great, but she’s so great that it was pretty obvious to me that she, the relationship, or both, were doomed. Sam may as well have jinxed them when he asked what he would do without her, and her "Crash and burn" response … well, sadly, the boy does burn. How much she could have helped him avoid his Season 5 fate is not possible to know, but it certainly didn’t help him. I’ve commented on my previous Post, The Pilot (Part 1), on how this episode sets up so many things that run well into later seasons and Jess is no exception. Sam still thinks of her, misses her, loves her years later. I can’t remember right now just how late his last mention of her is…is it all the way into Seasons 14 or 15? Regardless, I love, and it makes me sad, to see her in the Pilot and know that she and her tragedy will pretty much impact Sam for the rest of the show, if not his whole life. Talk about building strong foundations in this episode.

SAM: So, Sam is the first of our main characters to show up on screen, signaling that Supernatural is going to be about Sam's journey, and while it’s also clearly Dean's as well, Sam is the character who goes through the biggest transformation. It starts with Sam and ends with Sam in the audience's "current time," while it starts with the brothers and ends with the brothers if we include the past and the future/heaven (or what amounts to the prologue and epilogue). Anyway, Sam popping into the scene through that doorframe is pretty cute. It’s a very definite shift in tone. Sam playfully whining about going to a Halloween party is a huge contrast to where we left off before the title card. This scene with Sam looking adorable and so happy is downright wholesome after the scene we just left with the three Winchester males huddled together in misery over the loss of wife and mother, while their home burns. The Sam we see today appears to be very well adjusted (though he doesn’t like Halloween … interesting …) despite the tragedy his younger self lived through: he is tall, handsome, in university, in an a seemingly fairly serious relationship as he appears to live with his girlfriend, and as we find out at the party, he’s smart and ambitious. Sam, in short, is thriving. The first hint that things aren’t great for him is when we find out that his family, John and Dean, don’t even know how well he is doing in school, and with the way Jessica comforts him, this is clearly something that upsets him despite the casual attitude he tries to project about it.

At this point in the episode, my first impression of Sam was that he was cute (I didn’t really find him sexy until later in the series because in Season 1 he feels like a boy), loyal, smart, and maybe a little bit of a stick in the mud. Jared, at this point, is starting to give off his puppy energy, especially with his devoted heart eyes for Jess, but I feel like it takes him a minute to give Sam more nuance; but once he gets there, he kills it. When we meet Dean, more aspects of Sam, a fuller picture, starts to become more clear. He is the one who chose to leave his family. He grew up fighting monsters, but clearly just wanted a normal life. He was clearly out of sync with his dad and brother. With these bits of new information, when I first watched the show (this has changed since then) it originally made me feel like maybe Sam was a little bit selfish or maybe he didn’t care that much about his family. For me, him being so dismissive of John being missing (or "going overtime on a Miller Time shift") pointed either to Sam being a bit of an uncaring dick, or to their dad being a bit of a careless drunk. Neither, as it turns out is exactly the case, but the Pilot definitely drops info bombs on us, and some of the debris is left for us to sort through for now. We see Sam go from flippant to to concerned real quick when Dean rephrases his message to, "Dad's on a hunting trip. And he hasn’t been home in a few days."

Visually, this scene is set up very well. Particularly from just before Jess turns on the light to Sam’s reaction to Dean’s words above, we see Sam struggle to fit into the world he chose. First, we have Sam and Dean appear as a joint silhouette, all in shadow (the dark hunting world, their traumatic past). When Jess flips on the light, we see her wearing a Smurfs pj top (in the lighter, more care-free normal world). There is a clear contrast between the brothers on one side in the dark and Jess on the other in her cartoon jammies. Sam hastens to leave Dean's side and ally himself with Jess when Dean says he has to tell him something. Sam literally joins the other side as he crosses the room and gives off the vibes or building a brick wall between them and Dean. Two college kids in their jammies vs a rough adult in street clothes. But as soon as Dean clarifies that dad is on a hunting trip, the camera tightens in on Sam, effectively cutting Jess out of the picture altogether. Sam compounds this by asking her to excuse him and Dean. The scene ends on a visually isolated Sam, who has just verbally allied himself with Dean. Anyway, I just really like how this scene uses the blocking, lighting and language illustrate Sam's conflict. As much as he’s tried, it already seems clear that Sam can’t escape his old life, and he’s even complicit in it because he won’t fully abandon Dean.

DEAN: Minutes ago in the episode, we got Sam's entrance with him popping around the door frame, happy, domestic, practically wholesome (and cute as heck). In contrast, Dean enters the scene as a mysterious figure who we can’t see clearly, at first. This is apt given how Dean puts up walls and uses humor to deflect when we first meet him, and for a long time to come, actually. So, it’s hard to know exactly who he is. Just like in the fight we see glimpses of his and Sam’s faces, we can’t see either of them fully or consistently, and they can’t see each other, until the lights are switched on. I like the symbolism or metaphor of the way the fight is shot; we don't have a full idea of who either brother is yet, and they don’t fully know each other anymore either, after years apart.

Anyway, Dean enters the scene cloaked in shadows and literally brings chaos and violence into Sam's previously cozy, domestic, and structured life. It’s a pretty iconic introduction to a character and the brother dynamic, and a reunion all rolled into one. Dean comes in hot, and I don’t mean physically (though, yeah), he’s practically buzzing with manic energy. He wrestles with his brother, asks for a beer and hits on his brother’s girlfriend all in the matter of a couple of minutes, before dropping his info bomb on Sam.

My first impression of Dean was that he was hot, lacked boundaries, really cared about his dad, and was a bit of a dick. I really don’t like him telling Jess that she’s out of Sam's league while he gives her the eye because, come on, Sam is adorable, and it shows a lack of respect for both of them. I get it’s a short hand for showing Dean is a "ladies man" but it just makes him seem a bit gross, to me. Really, I think this is supposed to just be a healthy dose of screwing with his brother, but it’s not for me.

Also, Dean showing up at night is totally weird, and he never gives a real answer for this (besides beer). We find out in the final episode of the show that he waited outside for hours because he was scared Sam would tell him to "get lost or get dead," and it truly gives me all the feels when I watch this part of the episode now, and it makes absolute sense given some hints we see of Dean's feelings later in the episode. I just wonder if that was always the intended reason for Dean showing up in the middle of the night, him being afraid and breaking in so he could tell himself Sam blew him off because of the way he showed up, if that happened. Or was it more for the horror, bump in the night, aesthetic and to simply add to Dean's cool persona. Also, I find Dean's energy almost manic in this scene, but this also makes sense if he’s worried and just trying to brazen out the situation, pour on the careless bravado to avoid this worry and nerves.

At this point in the episode, I think Dean is fun, but kind of a jerk. Jensen is definitely a scene stealer, though, and he’s lively and compelling to watch. Dean is exciting. When I start to genuinely like him more though is when he lowers the walls a little and admits to Sam that he doesn’t want to look for their dad alone. It’s clear that he just wants Sam with him. We can see his vulnerability as he avoids making eye contact as he admits this truth to Sam. And Dean being honest works on Sam immediately, when suggesting it was his duty to help or that his dad was really in trouble this time didn’t. This moment is pretty quick, but it starts to show us that the brothers do have definite soft spots for each other despite the issues they clearly have.

(The Pilot Part 3 coming soonish … this one took me a while …)

[prettyflyshyguy]

WE'RE FINALLY HERE. WE'RE FINALLY AT S3E7 - FRESH BLOOD

And you KNOW ya girl has a lot more to say about this one so let's just get this party started shall we.

And now that I have CONTEXT I have THOUGHTS

The tragedy of this character is awful. But I'm appreciative for what it allows as a narrative device (as much as it is a shame that this random woman is negated to being that, and only that; a device) - after they've SEEN vampires be good and live a peaceful life. It's harsh that they just cull her off and decide that its a decision they are allowed to make.

This will surely not come back to haunt them when Dean gets infected in three seasons time.

I am a big sucker for anytime this show has them Decide something for others, only to be hit with "Oh no now its happening to us" and the immense emotional turmoil that causes.

Going to lean into this a lot more in the fic I think.

Bella hon I love you, but seeing Dean give a genuine threat because the man's got one thing to lose now and he's not letting anything take it away while he's still alive; marvelous.

Throw one too many low blow shots about him being no better than you and maybe just maybe he starts to act like it.

BLOOD JAR BLOOD JAR BLOOD JAR

Now I did skip to watch this episode cause I can't help myself, I like vampires too much and spn hits the spot. Having said that re-watching this with context on GORDON has made it a lot more interesting.

Now I really. Like. Gordon. He's a great antagonist. His voice, his mannerisms, the way he is so uncomfortably unsettlingly calm. Phenomenal. He has some really iconic lines and moments in this show and he's such a good foil to Dean.

Absolute epitome of "become the thing you despise" but deep end side of it. Like he's become so consumed by obsession and righteousness in his actions and his drive is just too strong.

I enjoyed that this ep looks at the primal survival instinct. And the duality of the Winchester's (mostly Sam) attitude towards Gordon being; man's gotta go, contrasted with the way Gordon talks to the Vampire. It's the gradual build up of detachment. Gordon is a monster. So are the Winchesters. None of them want to see that in themselves. The Vampire is too. They're all just coming at it from different angles. Each party has deep rooted trauma and pain, and each are dealing with it in a terrible way.

Sam's uncomfortable attitude shift of "It's Gordon or us" is harrowing. Dean being the more hesitant one is interesting. He's the first to chop off the head of a infected woman who's confused, upset, and pleading for help - but Gordon makes him uncomfortable (despite everything) and Sam's cold cut attitude doesn't help. I mean they've left him alive twice and each time he's only gotten more ruthless.

Dean cracks a joke about Sam not pushing back against killing him, but that feels far more like Dean fishing for Sam's conscience because he's unsure what the right thing to do is because Gordon isn't by definition an 'evil thing' in the lore books. Sam's no longer the grounding rock.

Oh if it were so easy.

You can really see they were dabbling with the transformation scenes in this and they just came in SWINGING when S6 rolled around.

the SPN vampire teeth are growing on me (HAR. HAR. HAR.) regrettably.

Ok so. This really begs the question. How much willpower does it take to resist. How much does that differ, per person? Is this Gordon just full SNAPPING upon being turned? Does he just immediately relent due to him already being on the brink? He has the most intense and unhinged attitude of all the hunter's that've been given primary screen time, so maybe its fair to say that part of him just completely caved in once he got hit with the overstimulation + hunger combo.

I think back to his introduction episode and how he talked to Dean about the hole inside yourself, like the pit or void you'll never fill or satisfy. How he used that to drive himself forward. Working solo, without a rock to anchor himself to (Dean has Sam) maybe Gordon just completely lost himself in this initial phase after turning.

This also echoes the S6 moment when Dean visits Lisa and also gets violent. Dean also loses control but ALMOST bites her. He still throws her and Ben around like they're ragdolls, which he clearly never intended to do.

Once again, great shots in this show. However I do wonder if its just my personal bias, or if there is a bit of an imbalance of woman corpse. Don't want to throw a stone from a glass house though. Just feels weird not mentioning it when I'm like "WOW SICK SHOT" and its. This picture.

Anyway. More to the point. "You don't understand. I was desperate. You ever felt desperate? I've lost everyone I ever loved. I'm staring down eternity alone."

Now THIS is what I'm talking about. It's so fucking human. What a shame, we're forced to see ourselves in something we deeply and truly want to believe isn't like us at all. Oh Dear. Reconcile THAT Dean you little shit.

This is so nicely echoed in S6 - the vampire is done, he's lost everything and he'd just rather have it end. The nihilism, the bottom of the pit. The end of the downward spiral.

Gordon's turn on Eternal Damnation and he wants to get off.

Once again I deeply enjoy the way the Hunters just drop everything so cold when something happens to someone. Including Sam and Dean in that, they struggle cause they're younger, less experienced, less jaded. The older hunters are fucking brutal. Gordon's partner, despite genuinely believing Sam has to die, just full send tells Gordon "No I can't let you take out Sam first. I need to kill you right now."

Despite everything, the common goal that they both wholeheartedly believed in, that they both gunned for so hard, thrown out the window when one is turned. Hung out to dry.

And how quickly they all turn on each other when this happens.

Anyway I think lore wise the vampires get stronger once turned, but I'm guessing drinking human blood enhances this further. Making notes for myself cause Dean's on a strictly vegetarian diet and this complicates matters for him of course.

But yeah, jesus, Gordon.

Anyway

Now THIS is something I gotta remember - Dean becomes a fucking menace when he's scared. Jokes get more intense, he has no filter, does not stop at nothing even despite the increasing protesting of the people around and closest to him and he full disconnects from loved ones.

"No. I'm a monster."

UGH. Compels me.

It's the resignation that's so fun I think. Like he just snaps, decided Yeah, this is it. Eats some people, then goes back to the original plan of Kill Sam. But its the way he leans into being the monster. Gordon was a mess before, but now its like he's truly just let go of a part of himself as he truly believes there's no alternative. Every vampire he's met and killed he saw as a monster and nothing more. Despite one, in front of him, exercising self control, he's still committed to viewing them as only monsters.

Once turned he can only accept the singular reality that he is a monster, and so, he does nothing to combat it. He embraces it.

Is it easier to kill him when he's a vampire? Or was it a further reminder that he was, and still is, a person?

Closing thoughts: good ep, easily one of my favorites. But you already knew that.

Love you Gordon you bloody legend.