#the moment you uttered his name in my presence (i.e. tagging me LOL)

[dimiclaudeblaigan]

it's miklan time -retrieves sunglasses from my bathrobe pocket-

(after post edit: it got giant im sorry you said miklan's name and i responded accordingly to the programming of my gautier brain)

I think, quite honestly, that Miklan didn't really get or was even close to getting the uwus the way Edelgard did. In Sylvain's paralogue, Sylvain says Miklan got what he deserved. Nobody would dare ever say that in a Fodlan game about Edelgard lol. She suffered so much uwu! So much trauma! Her circumstances led her to what she became! All the horrific things she's done are excused!

Mind, Sylvain still has some love for his brother. It was hard for him to lose Miklan permanently and he almost always refers to him in both games as "my brother", rather than severing that emotional connection because of not caring or not wanting to acknowledge their family ties.

If you consider Hopes, Miklan also wasn't given any uwus or fucks there either. He was given a chance, but not excuses. His story was written well because the characters around him told him no more fucking bullshit or you're dead. They understood his circumstances weren't great and that it led to what he was doing for so long, but they needed to cut off any possibility that that would continue.

It was basically like, if you want your life to be the way you believe it should've been all along, you cut the bullshit right now and start making amends. Yes, his circumstances sucked and he didn't deserve that, but he retaliated by targeting innocent and uninvolved people, which wasn't excused. Overall, the writing correctly handled how to go about handling someone who turned to a life of crime out of anger and spite who previously didn't deserve how he'd been treated.

The political climate of Faerghus was at fault for Miklan's disinheritance, which as king is Dimitri's job to improve upon. He can't just look the other way when it's his country's politics that drove someone to that life (I mean, he could if he was Edelgard LOL). It was Miklan's poor decisions that led to him being a bandit, but it was Faerghus' politics that led to those poor decisions, so in a way, Faerghus' politics still have a hand for it and are at fault for it.

That is to say, Miklan shoulders heavy blame, but not all of it. Dimitri is basically saying look, I'll fix the bullshit that fucked up your life, but if I do that then nothing is stopping you from fixing yourself. If Dimitri takes away the reason Miklan became a bandit in the first place, i.e. his value was trashed because the new kid had a crest and he didn't, then Miklan has no reason not to fix his life. Dimitri gave him a place of importance and value, i.e. commanding officer, because Dimitri believed that's the rightful place he deserved to begin with.

He deserved an honorable position in the first place, but that was taken from him by Faerghus politics. Dimitri has a responsibility to fix those things, and once he does, Miklan can be that respected person again, but it falls to Miklan himself to actually prove that that is what he wanted in the first place - the respect and honor that he lost. That his desires weren't pillaging, and if his desires were within reach that he would take them. Evidently Miklan was spiteful, but not spiteful enough that he wouldn't take back what he was rightfully owed by the people who took it from him, or in this case, the descendants of the people who took it from him.

And mind, being heir obviously meant the world to Miklan if he took things that goddamn fucking far for losing his title. Defending Gautier and being its heir meant enough to him that being removed from it over not being born so lucky really fucked him up when he'd been raised to be heir until then (even despite the fact that his mother was pregnant with his sibling, who could've had a crest, which we'll never know because she died while still pregnant during a Sreng raid).

And yeah, I'm using Hopes as primary examples for him because he has significantly more content, but also because AG was actually well written overall, and Faerghus' cast was given the best of Hopes' writing. Edelgard's writing was more or less the same stuff she already had in Houses because she was put into such a similar situation as what she was in in Houses (whereas Dimitri and Claude's routes had substantial plot differences), so it genuinely separates their stories and can't use Miklan as a way to prove Edelgard's point anymore.

He's a valued and respected commander of Faerghus, and he's, by his own admittance, happy about it (he says he's "come to like it" so... by Miklan terminology it's the same thing LOL). He doesn't feel spite for his role or situation. Dimitri saw him being used as an Edelgard's Talking Point, yanked him away from it, fixed any possible indication that he could be an Edelgard's Talking Point, re-presented him to the world, and her talking point crumbled immediately.

For Miklan personally, it was never about the crest. It was about his value being trashed by his own father and by the political climate. In that regard, I can't blame him at all for retaliating, but I can blame him for retaliating the wrong way and against the wrong people. Edelgard is likely under the impression that Miklan solely hates the way crests dictate things, but that's not the case. It was never specifically about the crests.

Yeah, he came to hate crests because of that, but if he hadn't been devalued like that, he wouldn't have cared either way that Sylvain had one and he didn't. In his eyes it's less about the crest and more about how his father prioritized a crest's power over his value and competence. It wasn't the crest that insulted him, but his own father. If he regained his value, the crests don't matter in the grand scheme of things, which is true of his Hopes arc (he leads men with and without crests and doesn't really care who has what. He's just appreciating that that's not getting in the way of being allowed to do what he's worthy of doing).

While I agree they probably made Miklan's circumstance the way it is to prove Edelgard's point, we both know her point fails in both Faerghus and Fodlan at large. It's another case of Edelgard devjerking wherever they can. Still though, Miklan's story was written much better than hers. Similarly to Sephiran, everyone said shut up and make amends or die (except Sanaki, but she's a literal child even in RD who grew up with this man as a loving father, so she does genuinely get a pass for not feeling so strongly about that).

But also, even though the devs circlejerk for Edelgard as much as possible, the coherent part of the story, yeah, doesn't defend her so much. By her definition, Miklan would not have been a noble period, and would've been tossed to the streets for not having a crest. He remained part of their household, and in Hopes Sylvain says Miklan gave him a hard time as kids, but adds in even after we'd grown up", so Miklan was plenty involved in their family his entire life.

Idk how deeply involved in banditry he was while still a noble, because that would have a very bad look for Gautier in general, so it's possible his actions were less destructive (because I imagine action would've been taken much sooner had they been bad enough) until he was disowned. After that I imagine it was just free reign so he stopped giving a fuck.

That said, Hopes really hammered that while he did make a better path and name for himself, it was literally do or die. He was still responsible for his side of the problem. Matthias made a mistake (which he presumably understands in Hopes, because if he thinks he's been a bad father to Sylvain, I'm sure he has a significantly worse opinion about how he handled Miklan), but Miklan's retaliation to that was "well okay I guess I'll go try to kill my brother then". From there it just got progressively worse.

So yeah, while I think he was probably initially meant to be an Edelgard's Talking Point example, her argument falls apart anyway in Houses, but the pieces that already fell apart fell apart again in Hopes. If anything I'd say she probably also wants to get rid of Faerghus because its existence contradicts her propaganda.

Without proof that she's /incorrect/lying (as in, idk if she's intentionally lying or genuinely believes that crests are everything), nobody can refute her claims and she can just say it was the case and that she already fixed it so nobody can see it anymore. Even if she does genuinely think crests are the problem based on her experience and trauma, she's not even giving Faerghus and Leicester the chance to prove her wrong because she doesn't want to be wrong. She wants to do away with what caused her pain even if it doesn't exist elsewhere, and at the expense of others.

She suffered, so the world has to pay for it (and unfortunately it really is the world in this case and not just Fodlan being the whole world as she refers to it, including Brigid, Almyra and Duscur as examples). To her, that's solving the problem: removing anything that even remotely resembles what her own country did that caused her to suffer, including taking it out on other countries.

While she chose to try to fix the problem that caused it, while Miklan didn't try to fix it and just reacted in anger, she chose to hurt (read: kill) innocent, uninvolved people and call it fixing the problem (Miklan never expected his actions would fix the problem). She thinks it'll help less people die in the long run. She thinks bandits like Miklan will kill people and more will die in the long run if she doesn't kill these innocent people in the short term.

However, all Miklan needed was to be cared about and valued as a human being and not based on having crest. Give that to him and problem solved. No more people dying to his banditry. It required helping him and putting him back on his feet, not taking a bunch of uninvolved lives. Dimtiri didn't look at Miklan and say "we have to kill to fix this problem", he said, figuratively, "we need to help him to fix this problem".

She's not just no better than who Miklan became, but she's worse than him. She also never wanted to better herself or correct her mistakes. She wanted to be right, had to be right, and would kill anyone who made her wrong (i.e. Faerghus and Leicester, just be existing, already proved her wrong and so had to go).

Miklan didn't care about "being right" or hurting innocent people and claiming it fixed the problem. Which, yeah, I'd say killing innocent people and claiming that you've now fixed a problem is a lot worse than saying you killed them out of anger and hatred. Neither is good, but at least he's not saying "I'm fixing the problem you all started by killing people who have absolutely nothing to do with the problem".

But yeah, the thing about Faerghus is that... it's not just based on crests. Each territory has their own method of doing things. Gautier has valid reasons for needing its crest, but Matthias still shouldn't have said "welp, you're disinherited now bud". Sylvain's power would've been no less important if he wasn't officially given the title of heir. He still would've had that power, still could've used it to protect Gautier, and still could've had his brother as the heir while he handled the fighting with the Lance of Ruin.

Technically, this would've been the better option imo, because it wouldn't run the risk of the heir and crested individual both losing their life if it came to that, i.e. if Sylvain died, Gautier loses both its heir and crested individual (which... SB lol). If Sylvain wasn't the heir but died in battle, Gautier would still have its heir and leader and just have to wait until someone was born with the ability to wield the Lance of Ruin again. At least then, yes, they lose fighting strength, but they don't lose order and leadership.

Regarding Jugdral, yeah, the leadership is wonky there because it's similar to what our buddy ol' pal Ulki said: leaders chosen this way, i.e. by bloodline, can lead to incompetent leaders. In our cast of characters' case, specifically gen 2, it just goes to the firstborn male without question, which puts Manster in an awkward place when Altenna was raised with the same knowledge as Arion, and Leaf was raised with... the cool skill of knowing how to run for your life, for his entire life until he was fifteen when he was old enough to fight back and stop running. Boy doesn't know jack shit about how to rule and hardly knows how to run an army. That boy is my son and my baby boy, but damn if he can't run jack shit as a leader. Reasonably, Altenna should've been the heir.

The difference between Yuria and Celice is similar for me though. I'd argue he can lead a country better than she can, just based on what we know about each of them. She doesn't have the temperament to do so, nor does she seem to have enough knowledge about it, which makes sense. She was still very young when she was separated from her family, so she had less than ten years to even learn from her parents about leadership. Unlike Altenna, she didn't grow up with that understanding. Celice was forced to learn it but he did, while Yuria kinda just... didn't. If you were to go by major blood, yeah, she should get the throne, but if you go by the laguz's idea of inheritance, well, the laguz's way of running shit over in Tellius makes way more sense.

That said, if you go by major blood, then yeah, she should've had the throne, but they specifically go by firstborn male, and both can be a flop. Like... Leaf lmao. He's a flop in both aspects, both because he doesn't have major blood and he also never learned how to run a country. His adoptive father was a goddamn knight, so Fin knows jack shit about ruling as well lmao.

Tl;dr yeah, Jugdral's inheritance system is trash. Ulki will not be, at all, in his lifetime, moving to Jugdral.

Quick stuff for the tags:

#i also really disliked the "he became a bandit because he felt cheated from his inheritence' like no #that's not an excuse

I hope I technically answered this in my post because I tried to! He did feel cheated, but he felt devalued as a person as well. He felt his worth was decided by a crest because of it, and yeah, that's really unfortunate and means there were political problems that needed to be fixed. Like I said though, he's still responsible for what he did in response, so his banditry is all on him and he can't blame politics for becoming a bandit.

He was only a bandit out of anger and spite - not because he needed to eat. He was a noble with more food than any of the people he stole from and killed. He wasn't a bandit to survive, but because he was mad at the country's politics. It's not an excuse at all, but he's an example of "Edelgard thinks she knows shit about other people's lives and thinks she knows another country's politics like they're identical to her country's".

#in FE16 Yuri iirc mentions he heard things about Miklan's bandit group seducing women

From what the English localized version says (it may be different in French text), he says Miklan's group kidnapped women, which goes beyond seduced. The implication is probably rape, though it's not said directly, so I guess you could technically take it either way (held for ransom for example, which would make sense after Miklan was disowned and didn't have all the food he could possibly need. Granted, held for ransom doesn't mean rape wasn't involved).

Not sure what it says in the JP version and I can look eventually, but I need a break after all this writing LOL.

#this game really tries to ditch personal responsability to blame 'society i mean rhea BaD' instead

I hope I answered this properly too! In Miklan's case it was actually handled correctly, and Miklan tells Catherine and Shamir that Dimitri told him that the only thing holding him back now were his past mistakes. That could mean Miklan personally doesn't feel he's properly atoned yet (i.e. he's getting his humanity back and regrets his actions) and still feels held back of a full redemption.

People respected him and he was a leader, so who he could be was figured out and solved. All that was left was for him to cut his ties with his past (mistakes), i.e. being a bandit. If he could move on from his grudges and past mistakes, he would be in full who he was meant to be all along, so he probably was only held back at this point by his own feelings and needed to get past that anger.

The reason I use Hopes in this case too is because he didn't get the chance in Houses to take responsibility; so I don't think the game ditched him taking responsibility so much as he didn't have a chance to do so. Hopes changed that and proved it had nothing to do with Rhea. Maybe not a win for her, exactly, but it still crushes more of the Edelgard rhetoric and gets Miklan out of the "look she's right, it's all because of the uwu crests!" category.

You're a free man now, Miklan. Now she can get a taste of the respected commander she thought would be such a good idea by not being able to take Arianrhod!!! -kids cheering sfx-

#that's why in Nopes his story was a small improvment #even if i still find it kind of meh

I don't expect to change your mind or anything, or your opinion on the writing for him, but I hope you understand where I'm coming from better with him! Like, why I think the story did actually do a good job with him in Hopes and that it expanded it to better explain his situation, which set him far apart from being "Edelgard is right" bait, because they're completely separate issues imo by Hopes' handling of Miklan.

HOWEVER! You did not say Gonzales in that last tag and that makes me sad. :'(

@dimiclaudeblaigan replied to your post “About that Listhea and Edelgard dialogue on crest...”:

Miklan wasn't removed from the family for not having a crest actually. He was disinherited but still part of the family. He was disowned after years and years of trying to kill Sylvain and being a bandit.

​Yep!

I still don't really like how FE16 tried to "uwu" Miklan's story to make Supreme Leader have a point about the crust system - as you said, if possession of a crest, rather lack of, was the only reason why someone would be removed from family, Miklan would have been ousted from the Gautier fam the second Sylvain was born, but it wasn't the case.

Dishinerited yes, but not disowned, and we know several characters (Rufus, Ingrid's bros, Gustave!) who have "crested" siblings, and yet aren't kicked away from their houses or left with a loaf of bread and a glass of water.

But FE16 - at least the spoken lines by the characters, because Hresvelg Grey - completely elude this to harp on the "crust system", and as some people pointed out, between "first son gets the title" and "first child with a crest gets the title" rules, I can't really say which one is worse lol

we know how it happened in jugdral, in a verse where Azmur picks Seliph as the next king of Granvalle because he's Deedee's firstborn son regardless of his minor Naga Blood, without Julia, the world is fucked the second Manfroy reads the "Loptyr" bedtime story to Julius