#the mcu is a vehicle for casual authoritarianism

[kinnoth]

More on this:

The base of the problem is that, historically, the speculative fiction genre has been structurally anti-authoritarian. It's always the little guy up against the dragon, the disenfranchised up against the tyrannical, the rebellion against the empire. The hobbit up against the representation of all evil, etc

But the MCU is, in its essence, military/cop propaganda. It's all about how change is inherently bad, self determination is inherently scary, and how the only way to be morally "good" is to wrest change away from the change makers and bring things back to the status quo.

The modern superhero robs classic fantasy and sci-fi for its aesthetics, but ultimately, they are not stories about resistance or allegories about the power of the common man, they are power fantasies. The powerful are powerful and they stay powerful. The rich are rich and they stay rich. The common man is an insect, scrambling away from the wake of their falling skyscrapers: at every point powerless, at every point faceless and inconsequential.

At no point is the hierarchy of their worldview ever allowed to be disrupted; in fact, the disruption is the evil, and it is never around for long. Physical violence quells the disrupter. And the superhero is the supreme dispenser or physical violence.

Might is the only right

I think at least some of this is because the modern superhero has done away with the concept of secret identities and alter egos. Since the first Ironman, where Tony Stark subverts our expectation and announces himself Ironman to the world, all superheroes are only themselves. Everybody knows captain America is Steve Rogers. Everybody knows ironman is tony stark. Everybody knows Bruce banner is the hulk. They exist in a narrative where they are given everything including adulation, where they want for nothing including governmental approval, where they are too big to fear anything, so they have nothing to hide.

When your superheroes are literally another branch of the fucking military industrial complex, I think we can dispense with the illusion that they are somehow vigilantes who work at a disadvantage "outside the system"

I dunno. Something about the lack of private life vs public life. Something about celebrity. Something about how even within the constructed world of the MCU, captain America is a branded trademarkable IP, selling plastic shields and plastic helmets, presumably made in a Chinese sweatshop, same as it is in the real world

Nobody knew the ringbearer was frodo, except for those entrusted to keep his secret. There was power in the secret. There was power there, to preserve him from the Eye.

Everybody knows the avengers, up in their tower. They watch over us all.

The irony of Tolkien plundering Norse mythology to create Lord of the rings and then the MCU Thor franchise plundering the lotr movies to create a generic fantasy vibe.

The irony that MCU Thor borrows aesthetics from lotr as a source material but somehow missed the whole fucking moral and has recast Mordor as the protagonist

All the things that were supposed to elicit horror in lotr? They're good now actually

The horror of Sauron's ever-seeing eye, watching everything, knowing everything? Actually that's good, odin's ever-seeing eye is actually here for our protection

The horror of the empire that is trying to consolidate all the wealth and resources of all the lands into theirs? Asgard is a utopia, where resources are so easy and plentiful that they guild their walls in gold

The unnatural orcs of Mordor and the uruks of isengard, who understand nothing but violence, fighting and swarming at their enemy as if untouchable by fear or pain, spreading fear and pain wherever they go? Actually they're Asgardians now and that's their very noble warriors code actually

But yeah, the MCU is totally not an unsubtle vehicle for casual authoritarianism

[kinnoth]

Oh this is fun, let's have a go at the marvel heroes next:

- [billionaire CEO war profiteer]

- [military arm of a fascist empire]

- [espionage arm of the same fascist empire]

- [angry man who makes a woman do his emotional management for him]

- [entitled god-prince]

- [the bow guy]

[kinnoth]

LMAO

"i know how i'll combat people's perception of me as a fascist imperialist: i'll take down the american military complex from which i take my rank and title. or maybe i can disband the avengers or retire from avenging. or i can kill tony stark --naaaah, i'll just stop wearing my helmet, that'll do the trick

[kinnoth]

hi!! i saw your note about tony stark and that you hate him. can i ask why?

Ah buddy

Look, I got nothing against people who like characters/ships I don't like. I don't bother them, they don't bother me. Everyone has a right to exist; everybody has a right to connect to whichever fictional character they want. I've liked characters several multitudes more problematic than Tony Stark myself, the only difference is that I cared about their damage more than I disliked their impact on the world.

But if you're really asking, I'll leave the link to my avengers megathreads here if you really wanna get in depth with it.

Basically he's emblematic of everything the mid 2000s thought a Cool Guy was: a techbro ultracapitalist authoritarian who thinks all elements of the world would be better off if he owned it and all people would be better off if only they would let him be in control. He's irreverent! He's wisecracking! He thinks his endless wealth makes him invincible and boy is society gonna let him prove it!

Like, unfortunately, if we're gonna be fans of the MCU, we have to accept that the MCU is an unsubtle vehicle for casual authoritarianism. Every avenger is a cop; every moral lesson is that we need to trust our police state and, for our own safety, allow them to take from us our self-determination. There's a reason why every avengers movie has borrowed so heavily from the 9/11 imagery of the towers coming down. There's a reason why, despite the vague politics of every avengers movie, the end conclusion is always "no public institution is gonna be as cool or effective as a private army"

There's a reason we have people laudably comparing IRL suckhole Elon Musk to Tony Stark as if anything Elon Musk does or has ever done is worthy of praise or commendation.

We're never going to stop worshipping billionaires if we don't stop worshipping billionaires.

Tony Stark IS a tool of our oppressors.

[kinnoth]

My wife made a really good point that superheroes who aren't being cops are just fantasy characters who may or may not be on an adventure

Why did they structure all these stupid fucking movies like this, like, why is there always some big bad guy on the loose whose actions loosely justify our superheroes stepping in and subsequently excising the self-determination from an affected populace? Why don't they have any movies about all these superpowered folks traipsing through a perilous environment, trying to retrieve a thing? Like what happened to the collective imagination that made it so that any time anybody gets a superhuman power, their first instinct is to go and make themselves into a fucking cop?

Is it bc the mcu is a vehicle for casual authoritarianism

[kinnoth]

Like Odin's Asgard is a racist, imperialist society. They regard all other beings as beneath them. Humans are animals. The vanir are scoundrels. The fucking jotunr are monsters. They LITERALLY whitewashed Loki when they adopted him rather than allow him to exist as a frost giant because his heritage would forbid him any place in their society.

In any other story, Asgard is the bad guy! We never root for the racists and the imperialists! Odin as its king is the main bad guy! And yet!

THE MCU IS A VEHICLE FOR CASUAL AUTHORITARIANISM SO THIS IS FINE

[kinnoth]

IN ANY OTHER FUCKING STORY WE WOULD BE ROOTING FOR LOKI TO DIAMANTLE THE TOOLS OF HIS OPPRESSORS

EXCEPT

THIS

IS

THE

MCU

VEHICLE OF CASUAL AUTHORITARIANISM

[kinnoth]

ULTRON MEGATHREAD

- lmao thor acting like he needs the whole afternoon to get barton back to CP when he can literally fly at the speed of sound

- i guess "mutant" is trademarked then? "eNhAnCeD" lol fuck off

- i really just love how these movies are so fucking dark i can't see fucking SHIT unless i watch it completely in the dark of night, no lights

- ok i do like this fish leviathan tho, that's neat

- why is military macho man captain america tending to clint barton instead of LITERAL MEDICAL DOCTOR BRUCE BANNER god it's like bad fanfic where everybody is interchangeable with everybody else

- i simply refuse to believe that tony stark does not have his own stark brand headphones for bruce banner to wear on the plane. i simply refuse to believe that tony stark deigns to use consumer tech products at all. i bet he designs his own fucking bidet

- why do natasha and clint have a more realistic fucking sibling dynamic than literally any actual sibling mcu has shown us.

- it is fucking irresponsible for stark tower to be in as densely populated a place as nyc i don't care if steel and glass is the aesthetic, that shit should be in rural fucking nebraska where the next flying fucking alien army that wants to take it out only has cows and groundhogs for civilian casualties

- TONY STARK CANNOT BE CONCERNED WITH THE WELL-BEING OF THE HUMAN RACE AND A FUCKING TECHNO CAPITALIST I'M SORRY I DON'T MAKE THE FUCKING RULES

- i'm glad that they're giving bruce banner more to do

- is ultron/jarvis a ship? i feel like it ought to be.

- i HATE this party wooooooooooooooooow. i didn't know you could fit this much smarminess into one fucking scene, actually amazing!

- natasha's outfit is cute.

- WHY are they pushing romanoff/banner so hard jesus christ, i'm like, not even sure bruce is allosexual if i'm honest and natasha can just do BETTER

- ok the bit where everybody's trying to move thor's hammer is cute

captain america is the military arm of an imperialist nation so of course mjolnir's into that

- a monster shambles out of depths tony's hubris and into the waking world ready to tear down humanity from it's precarious rungs of existence because tony stark believes himself to be greater than the sum of all the things he does not understand? classic tony.

- "YOU WANT THE WORLD TO BE SAVED BUT YOU DON'T WANT IT TO CHANGE. HOW IS HUMANITY SAVED UNLESS IT IS ALLOWED TO EVOLVE"

ULTRON IS RIGHT TONY STARK IS A THREAT TO WORLD PEACE AND HE SHOULD SAY IT

- actually love how every bad guy the mcu has presented to us so far has been in the moral right but because they threaten the status quo they are villains and must be stopped

its because the mcu is a vehicle for casual authoritarianism no biggie

- god i hate captain america. his naivete isn't even like ww2 era hokey charming, it's just the -- it's what america the narcissist sees when it looks at itself in the mirror. always right, always moral, simple-minded and more concerned about being good than about being effective. it's a dishonest man's idea of what an honest man is and it's disgusting.

- and tony stark is what a technologically illiterate persons' idea of what a technocrat is

- PIETRO IS RIGHT TONY STARK IS PERSONALLY A MURDERER

- every villain so far has called tony stark a murderer and been right to do so where is my tony stark is the villain movie mcu

- it is so fucking weird and stupid to see norse god thor going through boxes of papers like he's in fucking csi lol

- IT IS HORRIFYING THE IDEA THAT PRIVATE CITIZEN TONY STARK HAS A WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN ORBIT AROUND THE EARTH THAT CAN BE CALLED DOWN AT ANY TIME

WHY IS TONY STARK ALLOWED TO CONTINUE BEING A "GOOD GUY"

- if tony stark is not personally paying out of pocket for all the international damage to infrastructure he causes then there is no justice in the world

"stark relief fund" 🙄

-other people have said it already but man, natasha going on about how not having a uterus makes her a literal monster who is on the same level as "smash everything" hulk is insulting to monsters

also the fact that bruce and natasha are like wah wah we can't have kids, be less heteronormative you literal freaks

- "i watched my friends die" who? who has died in the mcu when avengers ultron premiered? i'm legit drawing a blank. bucky died, but that's steve's friend. loki died, but that's thor's love of his life brother. who died that tony stark cared about?

- this is such a slow, stupid movie about nothing

[kinnoth]

The irony of Tolkien plundering Norse mythology to create Lord of the rings and then the MCU Thor franchise plundering the lotr movies to create a generic fantasy vibe.

The irony that MCU Thor borrows aesthetics from lotr as a source material but somehow missed the whole fucking moral and has recast Mordor as the protagonist

All the things that were supposed to elicit horror in lotr? They're good now actually

The horror of Sauron's ever-seeing eye, watching everything, knowing everything? Actually that's good, odin's ever-seeing eye is actually here for our protection

The horror of the empire that is trying to consolidate all the wealth and resources of all the lands into theirs? Asgard is a utopia, where resources are so easy and plentiful that they gild their walls in gold

The unnatural orcs of Mordor and the uruks of isengard, who understand nothing but violence, fighting and swarming at their enemy as if untouchable by fear or pain, spreading fear and pain wherever they go? Actually they're Asgardians now and that's their very noble warriors code actually

But yeah, the MCU is totally not an unsubtle vehicle for casual authoritarianism