#the jedi traditions are complicated okay

[kim-the-kryptid]

Master Luminara comforts her former Padawan Oros Sami after their anxiety inducing knighting ceremony at the Temple

Really like the atmosphere here and the background doesn't look too bad, considering I hardly ever add backgrounds. Luminara was really enjoyable to draw and write about, she one of my favourite side jedi characters! I'm excited to start exploring Oros's story so I thought a good place to start would be the start of their career as a knight, which began rather unorthodox, for reference, this is 6 years prior to Order 66.

Below the cut, you can read the fic this piece is based on!

Rating: G

Word count: 1.3k

Characters: Oros Sami (jedi oc), Luminara Unduli, High Jedi Council members

The hallway to the High Council’s chamber was excruciatingly long. There were no doors on either side lining the walls, only embellishments and designs of gold leading you towards your destination. Oros tried to look ahead, focusing on how the huge double doors slowly drew closer with each step. Their hands clasped tight together, they breathed deeply, trying to clear their mind.

“I assure you my young Padawan, there is nothing to be fretting over. You have done very well on the trials and should be confident in your abilities,” Master Luminara’s voice cut through the deafening quiet. “If I can sense your fear, the Masters will have no trouble doing so.”

Oros’s eyes flicked down the floor before they breathed and replied, “Yes Master. I regret not having the time to meditate before being called upon.”

“You meditate enough as is. You need to stop letting your anxieties consume you and face them instead. What we are being summoned for today will help you see the advantage you can gain if you let yourself lie in the uncomfortable. It is to be an exciting moment of your Jedi career.” She finally looked over to Oros and gave a smile, pushing her calm through the force. They reached out to their Master’s grounded presence and took one last deep breath, visualizing the anxiety leaving their mind like the tide of an ocean. Gone for now, but welcome to kiss the sand sometime soon.

“I am sorry it has to be done in such an unorthodox way, you deserve to be going to the Hall of Knighthood instead. And you should have been told whether or not you passed already, not find out amongst the Council. For that, I can understand your worries,” Master Luminara placed a gentle hand on Oros’s shoulder. “The times we are living in are looking more and more grim, and the Order has responded by fumbling our traditions, when we Jedi need to be a strong constant in the Galaxy.” Oros studied their shoes but said nothing. No Jedi would admit it, but the recent rise in violence had them tripping on their own robes.

At this, the two reached the doors and waited as the sentinels on either side pushed them open with the force. They stepped out into the centre of the chamber and bowed, waiting for their Masters to proceed. Oros noticed all of them were present, only Master Koon and Master Mundi were tuning in via holo. This did not help their nerves, if they didn’t pass the trials, the entire Jedi High Council would be here during the announcement.

“Master Unduli, appreciate you being here, we do,” Master Yoda started “Important time for your Padawan, it is.” He nodded in acknowledgement and smiled. Master Luminara returned the smile and stepped back, somewhere out of Oros’s view. They awkwardly shifted before standing up a little straighter. The churning in their stomach continued, but now their face was neutral and their breathing calm.

Master Windu waved his hand slowly downwards, lowering the blinds over the windows and cutting off the golden sunlight as well as the surrounding distractions of Coruscant. Oros heard the shifting of shoes and robes, sensing the movements through the force rather than seeing them in the darkness of the chamber. The High Council Masters now stood in front of their seats and after a pause, Master Windu spoke.

“Padawan Oros Sami, with your focus and compassion…” A beat. “you have passed the trials.” Oros immediately let out a breath they didn’t know they were holding, a wave of relief washing over them. A small smile settled on their face, as their Masters’ lightsabers powered on all at once, creating a circle of light around them. Each of them had their saber clasped in two hands, pointed to the ceiling, just in front of their face.

“Padawan Sami, step forward, will you please.” Master Yoda, as the Grand Master of the Council, granted all Jedi Knights their status and place in the order. All the way from Master Windu, to Master Luminara and now Oros all the same. If anyone was worried for the possibility of war, it was him. He’d seen far worse and much more during his time in the order, longer than any of the High Council’s lifetimes combined.

Oros stepped forward, the green light of Master Yoda’s lightsaber bathing their face. His hood also had been drawn over his head, likely during the position change in the dark. The wrinkles around his mouth were calm, carving the familiar warm smile that Oros had seen during their Padawan ceremony. They kneeled and bowed their head just like the other thousands of Jedi had before them.

Master Yoda lowered his lightsaber to Oros’s right shoulder, before swiftly and precisely cutting their Padawan beads from where they had hung for years. He then brought the saber up and over Oros’s head before settling it above the left shoulder, effectively knighting them.

With a rippling sound, the High Council Masters all powered down their lightsabers, filling the chamber in darkness once again. Oros reached and picked up their severed Padawan beads before standing up, bowing and turning to leave the chambers. In silence they waited for the doors to re-open and stepped back out into the hallway, noticing that their now former Master had followed them. They made their way back down the hallway and once they reached a spot where they were alone again, Oros was the first to speak.

“I don’t feel any different, Master.” They stared at the beads in their hands, now just a memory that will have to be disposed of.

“You won’t, not for a while yet. It will take longer than you expect to become used to being called Jedi Knight. And once again as Master,” Master Luminara looked over to Oros, a smile on her face and her hands tucked into the sleeves of her robes. Oros could feel a great deal of unsure sadness radiating from her in the force. The relationship between Padawan and Master was precious, special and connected through the force. They will physically be able to feel the loss of the presence of the other as their duties begin to differ. “Your responsibilities may change, your circumstances, your experience, but I want to know you will always have been my Padawan. Even if there will be no lasting proof of it.”

“I guess this will be the last lesson you will have to teach me Master,” They put the beads into a pocket on their robe to dispose of later in their quarters. “I will miss you greatly, I know my skills are adequate, but I lack in your wisdom. I fear being thrown head first into things doesn’t work well for me. You have seen this first hand.” Oros stopped walking and turned to face Master Luminara now, their eyebrows furrowed and shoulders hunched over in embarrassment at the memories.

Master Luminara made an amused Hmph noise, “Young one, you have always been the sensitive type. But that’s one of your strengths, you will face the same kinds of challenges as you did before, only now you may be alone. I assure you, you will find you might not need to rely on me as much as you thought you did, Jedi Knight, Oros Sami.” She smiled and tentatively reached her arms out to offer a hug. Oros stepped closer and took it, wrapping their arms tightly around her, settling to nuzzle their nose on their Master’s head. With the difference in height, Master Luminara would have essentially been on tip-toes to do the same, so she relaxed and rested her head on Oros’s chest, holding them tightly.

Oros let everything they felt towards their former Master flow through the force. All Padawans are cared for by their Masters, it’s their responsibility, their duty for the future of the Order. Time after time, they will be granted a new Padawan, to fill the space of the last, to teach, to protect and to be a trusted adult of the force-sensitive kids running around the temple. This wasn’t the last time Master Luminara had to say goodbye to a Padawan, but it was the only time Oros had to let go of a Master.

[isagrimorie]

I just want to bite into Ahsoka and Huyang's discussion re: Sabine and the Jedi.

First, I love how Ahsoka is protective of Sabine.

Sabine: Well, I discovered that according to Huyang I’m the worst candidate to be a Jedi out of every Jedi he’s ever known.

Ahsoka: You said that?

Huyang: It's true. (Savage!)

I love how annoyed Ahsoka is at Huyang for getting in Sabine's head.

And then later, I love that Ahsoka and Huyang pick this discussion again:

Ahsoka: Well, what you said didn't help.

Huyang: I only spoke the truth. The Jedi Order would not have accepted her! She is not an acceptable candidate!

Ahsoka: By their standards.

I love this because it is true, that Sabine wouldn't have been chosen to become a Jedi by the High Council. At the same time, Ahsoka mentions that the Jedi Order doesn't exist anymore. Still, it also feels like when Ahsoka says: "By their standards", this echoes what Anakin told her when he decided to accept Ahsoka as a Padawan.

Anakin: You're reckless, little one. You wouldn't make it as Obi-Wan's Padawan. But you might make it as mine.

(THE MUSIC BTW. I didn't realize it was the start of Ahsoka's theme and then it starts playing when Ahsoka walks away from both Anakin and the Jedi Order, and then it plays a more somber tone when Ahsoka and Vaderkin fight in Twilight of the Apprentice).

Obi-Wan very nearly didn't become a Jedi Padawan, Anakin was too old to become a Jedi learner, Ahsoka was too reckless, and Sabine would never have passed the first set of tests.

Unconventional Lineage indeed, or as we like to call them fondly, the Disaster Lineage.

But also I keep thinking back to what Ahsoka said in the first episode: "These days there are few who could wield the Force."

This seems to greatly sadden Ahsoka. There used to be thousands who could use the Force, not just Jedi, but Nightsisters and various non-Humans. Now they're a fraction of a fraction, and I feel this is one of the reasons that motivates Ahsoka to teach Sabine.

So some aspects of her culture can survive.

Huyang: Standards which were proven over a millennium.

Ahsoka: And failed.

This seems to be a controversial statement but also she lived it. She witnessed how much the war ate at the Jedi. It's been a question she's pondered since she was 14 when Barriss spoke about her concerns about the Jedi becoming soldiers.

And becoming so closely entangled with government interests that it seemed to supersede even the Jedi Order's own codes. Of course, the Jedi should and did help protect people in the war but it didn't help that they became the Generals and the Face of the war.

Ahsoka came by her complicated feelings for the Jedi honestly. And I'm so interested in how much she wants to put all that she knows about the philosophies and teachings up into the light for scrutiny. To poke and ponder, and maybe tweak.

If there end up two schools of Jedi somewhere out there in the universe, one traditional and one non-traditional I'm all for it.

(You could say it's a schism kind of like when the Roman Catholic church and Greek Orthodox church did their own thing. In Martial arts ways -- having two schools of the same style but different philosophies. Two Dojos!

Like the Saotome School of Musabetsu Kakutō Ryū or Anything Goes Martial Arts and the Tendo School of Anything Goes Martial Arts. Except it is the Skywalker and the Tano School. And then the two heirs of the school marry to unite the schools! Okay, okay I'm getting way too anime about this).

But also Ahsoka tells Huyang:

"I don't need Sabine to be a Jedi. I need her to be herself."

And I think it also boils down to this -- it's why she also doesn't care if Sabine doesn't fit the box of a Jedi because Sabine can be anyone she needs to be.

I have to say again, I am actually happy Ahsoka has complicated feelings for the Jedi. I was worried she was just going to be Zen Ahsoka, the way she was on Rebels.

[bestfriendforhire]

Children of BFFH, Entry 178

 “You said yesterday that you watch movies and play games with your other friends.” commented one of the quadruplets as we sat around in the water, chatting after finishing our game of tag.  “Do you have a favorite?”

 “I have a few.” he admitted somewhat sheepishly.

 “Which ones?” asked Aspy excitedly.

 A faint blush rose in Ben’s cheek, making me consider changing topics, but he said, “Honestly, the old ones my parents got me into.  I like the Terminator movies, Alien, Star Wars, and other Sci-Fi.”

 “All of us happen to be a bit into Star Wars as well.” stated Four diplomatically as he took in the shift around us.

 “Oh, boy.  Here we go again.” stated Rona with a grin.

 “The words have been spoken.” agreed Aid, levitating himself out of the water with a spell and making the water evaporate.

 “The Force is with him, so we must see how he handles it.” insisted Crazy with a wild grin.  Not to be shown up by Aid, she used a spell to throw herself backward, flipping in the air while using a series of spells to dry herself before landing with a dramatic pose.

 “But are you with the Jedi or the Sith?” questioned Four as he smiled at Ben, who seemed confused about why everyone was heading to the shore.

 “We have a tradition, Ben, of enacting a Star Wars style battle every time the movies are mentioned aloud.  I’ll provide the costumes after you choose which side you want to join, keeping in mind that our battles are partly inspired by the numerous games as well.” I explained for him to try to ease his confusion.  “The various Force powers will be replicated through magic.  Since you have none, I’ll take care of the effects for you when you do the appropriate movement such as thrusting out your palm for a Force push.” I told him, demonstrating on Crazy who threw herself backward into a tree, acting as if that was a mighty blow that left her stunned.

 Ben hesitated only a second, before smiling and nodding.  “Cool.  I can definitely get behind this.”  He was at least acclimating to the things we could do.

 “I recommend using your hybrid form if you have no formal sword training.” suggested Aid before explaining that we all have practiced various styles based off those in Star Wars specifically for our enactments.

 Crazy decided to demonstrate that as well, substituting a lightsaber with a tree branch that she reshaped before making the “blade” glow with light-absorbing, demonic energy.  The resemblance to the Darksaber was fitting, but I felt for Ben.  His eyes would not be appreciating the look of that blade.

 “Umm… Maybe I’d be better off just watching?” questioned Ben aloud, looking away from Crazy’s demonstration and finding his eyes wandering back.

 Crazy’s movements were, of course, sublime.  She had no more issue with being perfectly graceful at human speed than I would, especially when going through a routine she had performed countless times.  Most of us could do that much easily.  Crazy’s demonstrations only became complicated for anyone when she started doing over fifty spells at once to emulate slowly lifting every pebble in her vicinity off the ground and making them start spinning around her faster and faster.  She always was a showoff.

 I created a screen of darkness between her and Ben to get his attention again.  “Let’s discuss what you would like.  First, would you like to join the Jedi or Sith?”

 “Jedi.” he responded immediately.

 “Have a preference for lightsaber style?” I asked, creating an illusion of fifty hilts in the air as well as colors for blades.

 “Oh… okay.  Um… This one.” he pointed.  “And green, please.”

 “And what would you like to wear?”

 “Something like Kenobi in the movies?” he asked, sounding hopeful.

 “As you wish.” I told him, creating everything he wanted, floating in the air above the shore.

 Seeing that I was already creating our gear, everyone else gave me their requests, knowing I’d hear it.  We all headed to our temporary abodes, changed and met up just outside of camp.  Surprisingly, none of the adults were joining us for once.  Maybe they didn’t want to overwhelm Ben too much?

 Four explained the rules with our friends taking turns demonstrating.  Ben had a few things to clarify about what Force powers he could use and how to signal them to me, but that was easily explained.  Then Four improvised a scenario for us to enact, which led to me getting permission to create part of a bunker like the one seen on Endor.  I also created a few “sensor towers” that would need to be taken down as we approached.  Surprisingly, Sis told me that the Boss wanted me to clean it up and leave it there once we finished, making me wonder what he was going to do with it.  I didn’t bother asking, knowing that Sis would have told me had the Boss been inclined to let me know.

 Ben ran back for his phone to get some pictures posing in front of the bunker in his human form after making sure that wouldn’t be an issue.  I couldn’t blame him.  Even we didn’t play with large props regularly—excluding the forts—and Ben obviously didn’t have another quality Star Wars costume at home with how he kept stroking the fabric and playing with his lightsaber.  This was all new to him, so I was more than happy to see him excited.

 The quadruplets, on the other hand, were disappointed that I only used “basic electronics” throughout the base.  Yes, the doors were merely hydraulic and the majority of the lights and switches were for show, but I wasn’t going to try creating new technologies on the spot just for playing around.  I wasn’t my mother!

 Four and I were on the Jedi team with Ben, two of the quadruplets, Stormcrow, Rona, Aspy, and Valeria.  Our mission was to infiltrate the bunker and download schematics on a new type of Imperial ship—which would just be simulated by a console lighting up after we inject our drive.  I cringed a little, thinking Mother was probably laughing at me right now with how simplistic I made things.  Maybe the quadruplets were right, and I should step up the gizmos I make.

 Ben joined Four and me as the bunker assault force.  The stormtroopers we fought as we approached were illusions created by Four, but Ben enjoyed deflecting the blasters and cutting down the illusions.  As we fought our way into the base, word came over our communicator that the towers were taken down, surprising Ben.  He apparently hadn’t expected the communicators to do anything.  I was tempted to explain to him that I could manage creating simple radios just fine, but he could obviously see that.  Besides, there was no reason to be defensive about my laziness.  This was a camping trip!

 Four and Ben held off the attacking illusions as I cut a couple wires and made the door open, which made Ben gape.  He apparently hadn’t realized that I really did make a bunker.  The other Jedi showed up in time to cover us as we fought our way through the base, eventually encountering three Sith.

 Watching Ben as he attempted to keep up with Ella’s movements, I felt sorry for him.  The conversation his parents had with him last night had left him feeling like he couldn’t argue with us.  He had bitten back his words numerous times now, worried that he might say something offensive.  Now he was in his hybrid form, which gave him speed and reflexes beyond what Ella could match, but he had absolutely no chance of landing a blow on her with his lightsaber.  She was being nice and keeping the fight going, but I was fairly certain that even Ben realized he wasn’t actually winning.

 Even Crazy was playing relatively nice with Four.  She let him cut her down after putting on a bit of a show.  Whichever quadruplet I was fighting wasn’t being such a pushover.  Due to the difference in speed, I had plenty of time to admire her attacks.  She mixed a Sith fighting style with Mother’s, creating an aggressive combination that wasn’t lacking in subtle deceptions.  Her footing fooled me several times as she performed different attacks than I had anticipated.  I ended up letting her cut me down, so she could fight Ben and Four.

 Unfortunately for Ben, the quadruplets actually were physically on par with a werewolf, and all of them were very skilled.  This one matched him easily while mostly focusing on Four, who was taking it easy on her, given that she was fighting two people, one of which lacked control.  In the end, the Jedi won, Sith lost, and Ben gave his parents quite a story when we were back at camp.

[smhalltheurlsaretaken]

So do you guys remember my post about Jedi meeting their birth families and being chill with it? 

I’ve been thinking a bit - a lot, for like a year - about all the headcanons around Jedi’s biological people, and there are really only two possible cases that seem to get explored: the pure of heart, flawed but loving, desperate parents who ‘had’ to give up their precious child to the Jedi and didn’t feel they had a choice (most commonly seen from the more Jedi critical parts of the fandom, but not always), and the horribly abusive no good parents at all who gladly dumped their baby onto the Order (which appears to be the way of some Jedi fans to ‘justify’ the adoption into the Order as legitimate, which really shouldn’t be the point because adoptions are just as legitimate without abuse factoring in).

What’s kinda sad is how little we’re willing to explore all the possibilities, maybe because we don’t want to be perceived as on the wrong side of the fandom by our own pals. We all deal with just so much bad faith discourse that we smooth out any sort of human drama and nuance to try and have clear cut narratives that are so black and white that they must prevent bad faith interpretations. Jedi have to be perfect pure angels that have never done anything wrong to be recognized as good, because we’re afraid that if we write them in an interesting way people will jump on the opportunity to accuse them of all sorts of stuff.

Well, I’m tired of vanilla fics and good guys vs bad guys when dealing with purely human everyday stuff. Bad guys are for the galactic battles, the epic clash of eternal forces. When dealing with how Jedi younglings come to the Order, we can have plenty of amazing, heart-wrenching drama and warm, happy moments where all sorts of good and regular people have different goals and meet and clash without anyone being at ‘fault’ or being to blame for it. I want to see (*sigh* to write) complex, difficult situations that can’t be perfectly resolved but where people do try and everyone feels like a *person*.

With that out of the way, what about:

- the unanimously proud communities, so honored that their daughter will represent their people and traditions among the Order, wear their clothing and bear their name

- the desperate mother with proud relatives, who doesn’t want to give away her child, but feels pressured into it by well-meaning relatives. The Master feels her reluctance and tries to reassure her, but she insists that it’s fine - and it is, she wants it to be, she wants to believe it’s for the best but it’s just so hard...

- Stass Allie’s parents, who saw their niece Adi GAllia go to the Order a few years prior. Their two families are influential on Coruscant, but with Adi already in the Order, do they need to send Stass too? Will people think they’re making a grab for power? Will Stass be better off over there, with her cousin? 

- Tiplar and Tiplee’s parents. How many children do they have, besides their twins? Is it easier to let your children go when you know they will be together? Did they make the Master promise they wouldn’t be separated no matter what? Did they dress them in matching outfits, or were the Jedi the ones to come up with that?

- the teenaged single mom who cries tears of relief when she realizes her baby will have a good life

- the single dad who can’t bring himself to let his daughter go, because she’s his whole world. The Master presses, not fully understanding, because she would would give up everything for the good of her Padawan, including her relationship with him if need be. The dad still says no.

- the struggling addict parent who is glad to dump that kid (but who still wakes up at night crying, cursing the Jedi, cursing themselves - who get their life back on track for their next kid, maybe? Who meets more Jedi and is thankful after all, or who never does and stays bitter, but better...)

- the family using the adoption for clout, and the consequences for the Order PR-wise, with the younger Jedi having to let go of the bitterness and the anger

- the communities with their own customs surrounding the Force that the young Knight or the wise Master’s inexperienced Padawan struggle to grasp and accept

- the happy parents who are mildly Force-sensitive themselves but didn’t know (or did know, and expected some of their children to be sensitive too), with the Master or the Knight pondering what their own life would look like as a civilian, maybe a parent themselves, maybe giving their own child to the Order like those are doing now. Would they do it? If they could met that hypothetical version of themselves, what would they say about the life they have? 

- the superstitious, incredulous or religious parents who are just glad to get a real explanation for the floating rocks, instead of all the theories and the judging and the gossip

- the ones who are desperately poor, and so very grateful, and the younger Jedi struggling with this, wondering if that’s why they were given to the Order as well. Struggling not to judge, because they wouldn’t be happy to give up their own younglings no matter what, right? Learning to be grateful, and understanding, and compassionate. 

- the parents who decide to give their child away against the community’s pressure, finding comfort in the Jedi’s genuine desire to support them

- the siblings struggling not to feel betrayed by their parents’ choice - and the jealous ones, the proud ones, the amazed ones, the ones who were just toddlers and spend their life holding onto faded memories

And on the flipside to all of that, what about:

- the Jedi who find a baby among dead bodies, like Mace and Depa, and are so thankful they could save this one tiny light

- the Knights filled to burst with warmth and pride as the three of them get this little toddler to giggle on the way home

- the baby who has been screaming in the Force for weeks, wanting to go home, and who finally gets to feel a presence caressing his mind gently, telling him someone is coming

- the Masters who hold the little ones at night, when those who miss their old home feel lonely or sad, rocking them and singing to them

- the Jedi who have their niece, nephew, cousin, or sibling arrive in the Creche, who call their birth family to reassure them that it’ll all be okay, and yes, ‘the child will know who I am, don’t worry, we keep our names. I’ll help them along the way, I’ll keep an eye on them.’

- the Knight who shows up somewhere and experience a supersonic boom because that’s the one, this little one will be his Padawan, he knows it

- the Knight awkwardly trying to comfort the parents, but she can see that they can see that the baby has already latched onto her, and she senses their turmoil

- the Master feeling that the child won’t be suited for the life of a Jedi, and saying that, even as it’s so hard to turn away from those sparkling baby eyes and that little mental tug 

- the Padawan balancing babbling triplets on his shoulders, because they’re from a species that makes a lot of babies

- the Master-Padawan pair visiting a child a lot during the transition period, and bonding with the other siblings as well

... Just... a mess of relationships and love on all parts, with understandings being reached, people finding peace and joy, and the opposite of all that, all acknowledging that there are no bad guys here, just complicated circumstances.

[sunderedazem]

From, 93 fun OC asks, how about 14, 17, 32, and 46? For either Cor or Sekulyn

Since you were kind enough to do both- I will be too! (Corrain's part will be below a readmore, for Scrolling Convenience)

Sekulyn first! Beloved Darth Occlus <3

14. What is their favorite food? How often do they get to eat it?

Gruuvan Shaal kebabs (traditional Twi'lek food), and spiced aric tongue. She eats the latter when she wants to snack in public, so she gets it a lot when she's eating out (which she tries to do often). The kebabs are when she wants a quick snack at home.

17. Where were they born?

She doesn't remember, really. She only has scattered memory of the time before the ship taking her to the Jedi was raided and she was sold to the Sith on Ziost. Childhood trauma did wonders on her (sarcasm). If she ever wants to find out, however, she'll learn that she was born on Nar Shaddaa

32. What is their self esteem like?

Pretty high. She's got a lot of confidence in her own abilities and cunning, and she knows and enjoys actively irritating traditionalist Sith that hate her being nonhuman and a Dark Councilor.

46. How easily can they express emotions? How easily can they hide emotions?

She's fantastic at concealing her emotions, she just mostly doesn't have to choose to do so. As for *expressing* emotions- eh. does Zapping things and people with Force Lightning count? She's good at that. Not so much talking about it.

And now, Corrain's turn!

14. What is their favorite food? How often do they get to eat it?

He'd say he doesn't have one, but in reality he loves an Alderaanian fruit called starblossom. Especially when they're baked into little pastries. (he's got a sweet tooth, lmao)

17. Where were they born?

Alderaan! I HC that there's a small Jedi enclave there, and that's where his mother found the Jedi and asked them to take her child. (he was a page for Duke Organa as a youngling, as an extracurricular)

32. What is their self esteem like?

It's...complicated. For the most part, his self esteem rides on how well he thinks he's performing at "being the Best Jedi Ever" so to speak, and for the most part, he's skilled enough and enough of a Force powerhouse to live up to his own unreasonable expectations. So (until he fails, and Falls) his self-esteem is alright. He's stuck in a "I could do better" loop, but he's okay. And then he Falls and his self-worth and self-esteem tank right alongside that.

He doesn't have any sort of healthy self-esteem until he leaves the Jedi, and learns to quit valuing himself based off an idealized version of the Jedi he's had in his head. (This is the Satele Bonk, lol)

46. How easily can they express emotions? How easily can they hide emotions?

Oh he's GARBAGE at both, ironically. He point-blank refuses to talk about his deepest and most crippling fears and insecurities, which is a Massive Problem for many reasons. And he's also absolute trash as hiding when he's angry or upset - after the Vitiate Trauma arc, his fury, fear, and despair all lead to him accidentally sparking arcs of Force Lightning.

He's a Repression-Explosion emotional cycle - and so he's bad at both halves of this question.

Thank you for the ask, @fenrisprime2003!! I have a lot of fun doing these, they help me come up with stuff if I haven't already fleshed the characters out.

[feisty-spirit-bear]

Morally Grey Characters pt 3

Pt 2 is here

Okay the last topic for the Morally Grey analysis is the role that society and law have in shifting the morality of the character, with some examples, one in our society with our laws, one in a historical setting, and another one in a fictional universe with their laws. 

Despite our best efforts to claim that there are absolute right and wrongs in the world and that morals are a fact, everything is framed by the society and collective morals of the environment and everything is relative. 

Example 1: in BBC Sherlock “His Last Vow”, Sherlock has caught Magnussen and is faced with a dilemma: He can either turn Magnussen in to the authorities where, despite his crimes, he will stand trial because our society believes in “Innocent until proven guilty”. This is the morally right thing to do because Sherlock has no authority to be Magnussen’s judge and sentence him and because we believe in the justice system and the right to trial by jury. HOWEVER, Magnussen has made it clear to Sherlock that if he were to stand trial, he would manipulate and threat everyone involved in the process until he is deemed innocent and will walk free, free to continue to wreak havoc on society and put people in danger. The situation is now this: Sherlock can do the morally right thing by society’s standards and turn Magnussen in to stand trial, or he can do the morally wrong thing by society’s standards (but the right thing in a legal void without a justice system) and kill Magnussen to end humanity’s suffering at his hand. He goes with the later, but this is an interesting case of moral ambiguity because in a void with no legal system or laws, no one would have doubted Sherlock’s decision to remove someone who has only harmed the community. But in the societal context that it was in, his decision is questionable because we have all been raised in a society that values the right to trial by jury. 

So, you can play with the struggle between the legally good deed and the morally good deed and the tension between the two and how this tension alters your character’s decisions and how other characters view their decisions. 

Example 2: This one is an example in the real world but in the past, Nazi Germany. I’m including it because it’s interesting and because it shows a respect for the complexity of the past and because it’s a useful example for considering morality in futuristic dystopian settings. In JoJo Rabbit, JoJo is a 10-year-old Nazi fanatic and Rosie, his mother, is working in the resistance and hiding a Jewish girl. Rosie’s dilemma between the morally right and legally safe thing to do is this: Rosie’s duty as JoJo’s parent means that she is obligated to raise him the best she can and to raise him to be a good person. Thus the morally good deed is for her to steer him away from Nazism, teach him the evils of Nazism, and how to fight against Nazism and be a truly good person. However, because of the legal climate of public anti-Nazism being punishable by death, the legally safe thing to do in this environment (and the right thing to do) is to allow JoJo to be a fanatic. He’s only 10, he can’t do much harm as a Nazi, but if she made her anti-Nazi views known to him and he either babbled to the authorities or joined her and became just as loudly fanatical in his new views, then Rosie would be killed, Elsa would be found and killed, and JoJo would be killed. That’s 3 innocent people dead and a lot of future good deeds that all 3 could have done alive lost for the sake of 1 kid’s brainwashed views. 

This is an interesting one to consider for writing historical fic and dystopian fic because although on the surface Rosie’s decision to allow JoJo to be a Nazi seems like a misstep in parenting, she was actually doing the right thing by all 3 parties involved. This is similar to in the Book Theif when Hans forces Liesl to go to Deutsche Mädels to protect her, even though he knew that Nazism is wrong. 

Example 3: It’s Star Wars time! Okay for our first look at a totally fictional world with a totally fictional society, we’re gonna look at everyone’s favorite, Qui-Gon Jinn. The reason that I’m using this example is because in our society, we wouldn’t see Qui-Gon as doing anything morally grey, but perfectly good. However, in the context of the fictional society of the Jedi Order, he becomes a grey character and this is a great example of worldbuilding shifting the morality of a character. Qui-Gon believes that Anakin, a disadvantaged and abused slave boy, has the potential to be a Jedi. He sees how joining the Jedi would save Anakin from his fate on this planet as a slave and is an escape from this situation. The Jedi Council however, decides that because of tradition, Anakin is too old (he’s like 9???) and can be offered no escape from his situation, but must suffer the life of a slave forever over something he can’t control. Qui-Gon says f that and decides to defy the Jedi Council and train him anyway instead of putting him back on Tatooine. In the society of the audience, we think it’s ridiculous to make an innocent kid suffer because of something he can’t control (this has serious parallels to kids aging out of the foster care system because people won’t adopt them because they’re too old) and so the entire audience sides with Qui Gon in his decision to defy the Council, but in the world of the story, Qui-Gon in deemed a morally grey character for doing the moral good deed but the legal (or traditional) wrong one. 

This is a great, simple example of using worldbuilding to further complicate the moral decisions of your character. Balancing the audience’s expectations for right and wrong with the morals of the society that you world built and then tension between the two is incredibly intriguing and having your character float in-between the two with their own conditioned morals that they were raised with and that their entire environment centers around coming in conflict with their personal morals is fun and interesting. 

happy writing!

[kylermalloy]

my Thoughts on rebels

Now I don’t have any hot takes or any controversial opinions to put out here. Rebels is a simple show with a simple plot. There’s not a whole lot to analyze, but that doesn’t mean there’s nothing to enjoy. Sometimes all you need is a straightforward concept with lovable characters. So let me proceed to squeal about Dave Filoni’s second masterpiece, Rebels.

Spoilers abound!

Before I say anything else...

THEY HAD A BABY I haven’t stopped squealing.

Zeb Okay I’ll start with Zeb, for no particular reason. He was the only main character I hadn’t really heard about or seen much of before I started watching. In the first few scenes with him, I was afraid he’d become his stereotype—the thuggish gorilla who argues all the time, disobeys orders, messes up plans, and borderline betrays his friends. I was so pleasantly surprised when none of that happened. Maybe by virtue of being a kids’ show, these characters don’t have *edgy* or twisted nuances. Zeb is fiercely loyal. He likes smashing heads in and gets grumbly sometimes, but he’s never a hindrance. He’s not just “the muscle”; his ingenuity saves the day on more than one occasion. If anything, his nuances take him the other way—he’s incredibly sensitive and childlike in some ways. Being one of the last of his kind is a major plot point of several episodes, which brings so much depth to him and his psyche. It also informs SO MUCH on his relationship with Kallus. Speaking of...

Kallus I never, ever expected Kallus to be anything more than a season-long plot device. The fact that he stuck around and went through actual character development?? Amazing. The episode where he and Zeb are stranded together is gold. He’s got a sense of honor even as he works for the Empire, sparing the rebels as Zeb spared him. He develops a new set of ideals thanks to our heroes, and he begins to question and regret the things he’s done for the Empire—ethnic cleansing of Zeb’s Lasat people included. And that last scene of them in the epilogue? I’m not gonna lie, it was a bit shippy.

KANERA I know while the show was airing, fans were constantly asking when Kanan and Hera were going to get together. But for me, they seemed to be married from the first episode. Hera calling Kanan “love” and teasing him? Kanan constantly worrying after Hera while simultaneously believing in her ability to do...absolutely everything? Their parenting of Ezra, Sabine, Chopper, and even Zeb? Explicitly referring to them as “the kids” and themselves as “Mom and Dad”? Yeah, they’re married. And let’s not underplay their strengths as individual characters. Kanan—or Caleb—is exactly what you would expect of a Jedi whose training is only halfway complete. He’s cool and awesome, but also riddled with self-doubt and uncertainty. And Hera is the mature voice of reason this merry band of children so desperately needs—except of course when she’s the one rushing headlong into danger, whether to get a fighter prototype or to steal a family heirloom or to save a couple pilots in a suicidally risky move. She’s a perfect blend of mature reason and headstrong determination that makes a true rebel. (Wait a minute...she’s totally Katara! Maybe that’s why I love her so much.)

Now back to them as a couple! Most of the show did nothing to advance their relationship—further reinforcing my headcanon that things were always happening between them behind the scenes. Even though they became official canon in the last season, the appearance of their kid in the epilogue proves I was right—based only on what we saw, there was no time for them to make a baby. Of COURSE there were things going on behind the scenes. 😏 (I found the interview that explains exactly where Jacen came from, and I was equal parts ecstatic and freaked out.)

Did I mention THEY HAD A BABY???

Ezra So apparently there are people in the Star Wars fandom who hate Ezra? I guess I shouldn’t be surprised; Star Wars fans hate everything. Except the OT. If you hate the OT you’re a heathen. I can’t really think of a solid reason why people hate Ezra, except for the fact that he seems to be a Luke Skywalker analog. He’s a poor kid with Force sensitivities who gets adopted by a Jedi and becomes a venerated leader of the Rebellion. He also finds an oddball group of friends he comes to call family but eventually bids them farewell after the death of his mentor. They’re not carbon copies, of course—Luke’s an optimistic idealist; Ezra’s a cynic. Luke whines; Ezra snarks. Luke blows up the Death Star and defeats Vader; Ezra completes a series of far more complicated missions and defeats Inquisitors and Thrawn. Again by virtue of him being the star of a tv show instead of just three feature length movies, he gets a lot more time to have his adventures. Maybe there’s some resentment over him getting more screentime than Luke? Maybe it’s because I’m just Not a Luke Skywalker stan. I like him fine, but I don’t hold him up as some perfect saintlike hero. (I didn’t have any problems with his TLJ characterization.) The people who do need to rewatch the OT they hold so dear. Luke’s a beautiful drama queen and you all should love him for that. But I’m here to talk about Ezra! Listen, this child is a disaster and a half—just like Luke, just like Anakin, just like young Obi-Wan. There is nothing to not like about him—except that he reminds you of your favorite characters but he’s not them.

Clone Wars characters I initially started watching this show solely for the characters I already knew from Clone Wars. Ahsoka Tano has been my girl ever since I started watching Clone Wars, and I didn’t even consider watching Rebels until I knew they had undone her death. (If there was just ONE character they could needlessly save via time travel, they picked the right one.) At any rate, she’s perfect in this show. She’s more grown-up, more mature, but still retains that *young and plucky* spirit. (For the record, I usually hate the *plucky* characters. Somehow, she works for me. Maybe it’s because she doesn’t really do that annoying cocky smirk thing.)

But it’s not just Ahsoka. Rex survived! I’m so glad at least one clone (two? Wolffe?) made it out of the war okay. And he’s great here. His constant snarking with Kanan reminded me so much of his banter with Anakin (and I’m sure it reminded him of that too ;-; ) His presence on Rebels isn’t strictly necessary, narratively speaking, but it’s just a nice tie-in to the world we got used to in Clone Wars. It reminds us that this world with the Empire was once the world of the Republic, and there are still clones out there—even if there’s no place for them in this new order. This of course reinforces the tragic narrative of clones as sentient beings created for nothing but combat. And again, I commend both shows for making me feel that narrative so deeply!

Hondo and Maul were two of my favorite antagonists from Clone Wars, so seeing their multiple appearances here filled me with joy. Hondo cracked me up, as usual, and Maul’s farewell was touching and heartbreaking. I almost wish he were still around! There’s still his duel with Ahsoka in season 7 of Clone Wars... 👀 Honestly what surprised me most about those two were the way they were both presented as protagonists. Hondo especially, and Maul does become an antagonist again. But it really speaks to the way all paradigms in the galaxy have shifted after the Republic became the Empire. In Clone Wars, Hondo was portrayed as an annoying hindrance to our heroes. Now with the Empire as an adversary to our main characters, Hondo is an ally. An untrustworthy one of course, mostly in it for the money, but his interests usually lie with helping our heroes, not hurting them. Besides, nothing tops his relationship with Ezra. Their first meeting had me in fits: “You lied to me?? I KNEW I liked you!” (Also I forgot to mention the running gag of Ezra introducing himself as Jabba the Hutt? Genius. And hilarious, since some people actually believe him at first)

THEY HAD A BABY!!!

Thrawn I need to see this guy again. Whether in a continuation where we learn what happened to him and Ezra, or some other moment in time where we see him younger, rising through the ranks of the Empire full of ambition and ideas. He’s quietly menacing, always confident and meticulous. He does a great job of making the rebels feel helpless in their fight, needling their pressure points and taunting them—but he never makes the conflict personal to him. He always remains detached, just a guy doing his duty. He’s just there to pick up interesting art pieces. I love the way he’s acted—always quiet, cultured, practically whispering. I didn’t know he was voiced by Lars Mikkelson until after I watched, but that was a perfect choice. I found the Inquisitors a little flat as villains (antagonists, whatever) and the other Empire ministers and governors not very threatening. Thrawn was the perfect balance (lol) between interesting and a genuine threat.

MANDALORE For all of Sabine’s merits as a character, I love her most in the Mandalorian arcs. The episode where she comes into her power and wields the darksaber is one of my favorites. She’s not a traditional stern, stoic Mandalorian character. She’s a free spirit, incredibly creative and intellectual. Yet she’s also afraid of her mind and what she could create—for years she created weapons for the Empire to feed her hubris. Maybe that’s why she mainly sticks to painting throughout the series. :) Anyway. I look forward to the follow-up detailing her adventures with Ahsoka.

Chopper I rolled my eyes so hard when I first saw Chopper. Everything from his name to his design screamed “kiddie version of R2D2” and I was fully prepared to hate him. I don’t. He’s just like R2, in that every sentence he says sounds like it’s punctuated with about ten different swearwords. It’s hilarious seeing such a cute character being so surly and even threatening on occasions! Chopper kicks some serious butt. He even comes with a tragic backstory!

Lastly, I don’t think I’ve mentioned...

THEY HAD A BABY AND HE’S ADORABLE

[padawanlost]

i've been seeing some ppl say that what the sith said to the jedi was right, that the jedi order as a whole was a fool to not realize and eventually utilize the power of the dark side -- but then i also see ppl who say that you cannot be a gray jedi, that you cannot be BOTH light and dark, that you can't use both. and then there are ppl who say that the jedi mind trick itself leans toward a dark side ability. i am v v confused and idk what to think anymore ://

it’s hard to generalized the Sith because they have a long, complicated history that goes way beyond what we see in the movies. they are more than just Palpatine or Darth Vader but, because I don’t know much about the Old Republic, I’ll stick with the how the Sith were portrayed in the movie when answering this, okay?

First, the sith are used by the narrative to expose the flaws in the Republic and the Jedi Order. Think of Palpatine or Dooku saying they were going to win because the Republic was too corrupt or the Council was too blind to what was really happening. Neither are wrong but because they are the antagonists some fans dismiss these facts – supported by actual real life sw writers –  as ‘propaganda’. So, yeah, the Sith made some valid point about the Jedi Order and their approach to politics and the Force itself but, of course, that doesn’t mean they were right about *everything*

“No being can wield that kind of power for centuries without becoming complacent at best or corrupt at worst. He has no idea that it’s overtaken him; he no longer sees all the little cumulative evils that the Republic tolerates and fosters, from slavery to endless wars, and he never asks, “Why are we not acting to stop this?” Live alongside corruption for too long, and you no longer notice the stench. The Jedi cannot help the slaves of Tatooine, but they can help the slavemasters. - DOOKU, Yoda’s former Padawan, to Darth Sidious”  Karen Traviss. The Clone Wars 

“It also allows you to kind of have some sympathy for Dooku in that he carries the sympathies of most of the Jedi which is that the Senate is corrupt and it’s incapable of carrying on any meaningful actions because they argue about everything all the time.” George Lucas

As for the Jedi being fools for not using the dark side, that was Palpatine trying to convince people – specially people he was trying to turn – that evil was ‘relative’.

“Good is a point of view, Anakin. And the Jedi concept of good is not the only valid one. Take your Dark Lords of the Sith, for example. From my reading, I have gathered that the Sith believed in justice and security every bit as much as the Jedi—” [Matthew Stover. Revenge of the Sith] 

As for gray Jedi, they existed in the Old Republic but it became something the Order banned when they decided anything remotely ‘dark’ was unacceptable.

The term Gray Jedi, or Gray, had two meanings. First, it was used by Jedi and Sith to describe Force-users who walked the line between the light and dark sides of the Force without surrendering to the dark side, and second, it described Jedi who distanced themselves from the Jedi High Council and operated outside the strictures of the Jedi Code. However, those who were considered to be true Gray Jedi met both qualifications and did not belong to any particular Force tradition.[x]

Gray Jedi isn’t something *we* decide about a characters, it’s a label they give themselves or other characters (force-users) give them. not living by the Jedi Order rules does not make on automatically a gray Jedi. If you are interested, I’ve talked about the term here. Anyway, you can use both because the force *IS* both. You don’t have two forces, one good and one evil. You have the Force and beings who use it for good and beings who use it for evil. 

"I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil? everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in Star Wars." George Lucas

As for the mind-trick, it’s an ability the Jedi Order considered good but not one without its moral issues. That’s why fans don’t see it as a fundamentally good thing because it harmed people.

While it can be most useful in conflict resolution, affect mind must be used with restraint, almost always as a last resort, after exhausting less dangerous avenues that lead to peace. Yes, less dangerous, say I, for the power can easily cause permanent damage to a relatively innocent subject.[Star Wars Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force by Ryder Windham]

And that’s even without getting into the whole free-will, consent discussion because robbing someone of their agency is never a good thing

[oh-great-authoress]

For the Star Wars asks: 3, 14, and 38?

O God in Heaven Help Me, @the-coruscanti-blogger, these are so hard, but. Okay. *rubs hands together* Let’s do this.

I’m so sorry if it’s a little chaotic!

3. Favorite Character from the Prequels

*sighs* This is a hard question for me. Reaaaaallllly hard. I will answer with one, but I must add my next two favorite Prequel Era characters because I feel it would be wrong not to, that’s how much I like them.

Obi-Wan Kenobi

Anakin Skywalker (I’m sorry your no. 1 is my no. 2! 🥺)

Asajj Ventress (technically she’s from TCW, but it’s still the same time period, so…)

14. If I Could Change One Two (technically three) Thing(s) About the Star Wars Universe, What Would it They Be?

Let’s make it two(ish). Asajj Ventress (I would have loved to see her helping out the galaxy when she could, being an awesome Gray Jedi, you know? It would’ve been so cool) and Ben Solo would live, and somehow, I don’t know, the seven traditional forms of Jedi lightsaber dueling would be revived.

38. Fic Recommendations (this was the easiest one for me.)

Mission Report by Ruth Baulding

This is amazingly hilarious. This was one of the first Star Wars fics I ever read. It’s Anakin and Obi-Wan writing a report for the Jedi Council. That’s it.

Live Broadcast by Ruth Baulding

Anakin and Obi-Wan from the point of view of a holo-jockey on a Separatist-annexed planet. It involves a lot of comedy, and it’s really good.

You Shall Become (Me) by Jedipati

How to describe this? This is AU comedy gold. Let me just use the author’s own summary, because their words are the best. “The Guardian of the Sith Temple doesn't particularly care for the new breed of Sith, for all that they've been around for 1,000 years. But they're the only Sith the Guardian knows about. Until one day… Alternately, "How to accidentally join the Sith without really trying."”

Quintessence by Mathematica

This shifts POV from Anakin and Obi-Wan to that of the Jedi Council as The Team reports to them about their latest mission.

Essence of Amity by Above the Winter Moonlight

Inspired by the previous fic, Anakin and Obi-Wan are assigned to a diplomatic mission somewhere out in the middle of nowhere, and everything possible goes wrong for the Master and Padawan.

Canzonet by Pyxelle

This is more Obi centric but this is worth the read. Ani and Obi are sent to a planet to mediate a dispute. The problem is, the inhabitants of the planet cannot understand spoken language, they only understand singing.

(I have a thing for comedy featuring The Team 🤣)

Now for something more serious. I know you said that you wouldn’t stop Anakin from turning because then we wouldn’t get Darth Vader — and I also love Darth Vader, but this next fic is so amazing, I’m pretty sure you might (almost) not miss Darth Dadakin.

When Darkness Seems to Hide This Place by IllyanaA

This AU has it all, Skeevy Sheevy being Skeevy and EVIL, spectacular adventures and skin-of-their-teeth rescues, Ani & Obi being bad*ss, honest and open about their emotions, and being the best brothers to ever brother, Anakin being an Amazing Dad, Awesome Ahsoka, nuanced side characters, and a not-dead Asajj Ventress. This is a 50 chapter epic, but I’m telling you, once you start this one, you’ll have a hard time stopping.

Rise, Lord Kenobi by LilyWanKenobi

This is an AU Obitine where Obi-Wan is the heir to the Stewjonian leadership, and as the heir, he is called upon to fulfill his duties upon his father’s death.

The Height of Subtlety by WinterSky101

Bail hosts Padmè, Anakin and Obi-Wan for a dinner party at his place, and no, there are no secret couples in this group, no siree!

One of my jams is Leia makes up with Dad fics, so these are a few:

Father and Daughter by Morwen Tindomerel This references some events from Legends but it’s still quite in canon up to now.

gunpowder and shades of grey by irnan This fic uses the Legends names of Leia’s children, just so you know.

Restless Warrior by Aria Saralyn This is a oneshot longform masterwork. This must be read.

Darkness by Firefly Alchemist After Ben Solo turns to the Dark Side, Anakin comforts his daughter.

Interview With A Sith Lord by KaelinaLovesLomaris

This fic shows that there was more to Captain Piett’s promotion to Admiral than met the eye.

These following fics use the Legends Canon, and these fics by the same author, frodogenic, are so incredibly good that I had to put these on here. It’s an AU fic series that all hinges on the idea that instead of bodily picking up Skeevy Sheevy in RotJ, he used the Force instead to yeet him into the reactor. Luke and Anakin decided to deal with everything else later because the Death Star was about to blow and they have to get out of there. In this ‘verse, Anakin is able to return to the Executor which was still intact because Admiral Piett was able to raise the shields in time for her to avoid her bridge being blown to pieces. However, despite that, her navigation computers have been completely damaged and so, with seconds to spare, they hightail it out of Endor only to land in the Unknown Regions. These fics pick up twenty-some years after RotJ, and are spectacular in their scale. The feels and the snark and the humor are strong with these. You will have emotions in some parts, and want to bust a gut laughing in others. I know I did.

Meet the Skywalkers While this is technically the first in the series, this one is the latest story in the AU. The author is slow to update, but it’s really, really worth every single wait.

Lord Vader’s Limpet Darth Dadakin babysits one of his grandsons.

Driving Lord Vader Anakin Solo goes to the Space DMV to get his license. Only catch? Grandpa’s the one taking him there. From there, it gets funnier, and heartfelt by the end.

Four Letters, Starts With L Luke gets hurt while being all Jedi Master-y and Dad comes to visit him in the hospital. So sweet, it’s cavity inducing.

Late Afternoon by camweasley

Post-TRoS fic. Ben comes when he can.

we’ll sit and talk the stars down from the sky by catefrankie (tumblr is @catefrankie if you’re interested)

Post-TRoS fic. It’s still a dance with them, if not a more simple one. It’s still complicated though.

Catharsis by KCMarsala

This is TRoS fix-it fic with sass, sads and laughs.

Hope May Vanish, But Can Die Not by DancingInTheStorm (@enthusiasticallyobessed)

A TLJ Luke study with a beautiful and touching appearance from Anakin.

I have so many more, but I wanted to keep things short (hah) so I will end it here, but not before I recommend…

Would it be so bad if I recommended my own fic, Gray Guardian?

It’s an AU focused on Force Ghost! (ish. You’ll see) Asajj Ventress, basically being young Jedi Initiate Ben Solo’s Guardian Angel. Jedi Master/Uncle Luke’s there too, along with a lot of Anakin (father and son feels), and Obi-Wan (he gets lots of brotherly feels with Anakin too and a lot of feels in general), with guest stars Yoda and Qui-Gon. It features a bestest frenemies forevership with Asajj and Obi-Wan, and a Reylo Endgame.

Please let me know if you read any of these and your thoughts about them, and please don’t hesitate to ask me for more fic recs, or more questions from that ask page!

If any of the links don’t work, just let me know, and I’ll fix them!

God bless you, and stay safe and healthy!

Nadia

[unexpectedreylo]

Closing Arguments For Reylo

After it seems like we’ve spent a year anticipating this movie--from the film wrap in February to the teaser trailer in April to the Vanity Fair stuff in June to the D23 trailer at the end of August to the Road To TROS stuff to this final trailer and the onslaught of press for the film--we’re finally in the home stretch.  

Who will live?  Who will die?  Will Reylo ride off into the sunset, a HEA at last for a Star Wars couple, will it end in tragedy or worse yet, will it end in a vague incoherent muddle?  After all, no fairy tale ends with “they lived ambiguously ever after.”

I think we’re all going to be nervous sitting in the theater come Dec. 18-20 because whether we believe “leaks” or not, we’re just not going to know for sure until we see the film.  I’m almost as nervous about their misusing/under-using Adam in this film as I am about the filmmakers blowing Reylo.

Yet of all of the sequel films, I’m the most confident about this one going in.  This is the last film in this story and it’s not going to end with the message that the Skywalker family was somehow a mistake or some curse upon the galaxy that needed to be eliminated, while the few positive aspects about the Skywalkers are handed off to Rey because she’s such a nice girl.  It’s not going to end like Romeo and Juliet.  It’s not going to end without redemption for Kylo Ren/Ben Solo.  The final chapter in the series is not only going to redeem him but everyone else who screwed up before him.  It’s going to end this conflict and a Jedi Order 2.0 is going to arise.  There will be a big party at the end.  It will give you cavities and possibly blood sugar spikes.  

As far as I’m concerned, Rey and Ben being together--in LOVE--is an integral part of that happy ending.  Cinderella gets her prince.  Beauty finds true love with the man who had been the Beast.  Anastasia marries Christian Grey and has a baby.  There’s just no such thing as a heroine who cheerfully ends up without her lover and in spite of what a lot of people think, Star Wars spends far more time utilizing traditional storytelling tropes (though in new ways) than subverting them.  Like I wrote in my piece about gothic romances, the woman gets the man, the manor, and the money.  Rey walks into TROS already with the metaphorical substitutes for the manor (the Falcon) and the money (the objects associated with the Skywalker family).  She’s already in with her potential mother-in-law.  All she needs is for Ben to show up to the metaphorical/literal wedding.

And everything is pointing toward that happening.  I’m not saying TROS will end with Ben and Rey in a wedding or Rey waddling about preggers.  Maybe it will end that way, maybe it won’t.  But it will at minimum pair them together a la Han and Leia at the end of ROTJ.  

First, let’s take on the only legitimate, in-universe obstacles to Rey and Ben being in a romantic relationship.  No, I don’t mean that they could be related.  What I do mean is that there are two things that would prohibit romance:  one is obvious...no Bendemption.  But I’m certain it is going to happen.  The other is the old school Jedi prohibition against forming attachments, including romantic relationships.  Many fans expect this deeply unpopular rule to be cast aside.  But in the name of fairness, it bears pointing out that so far, this deeply unpopular rule hasn’t been cast aside in the movies.  Sure there was a bit in the TLJ novel implying Luke wasn’t fond of this deeply unpopular rule but on the other hand, he lived it.  Generalissima Leia did lots of other things but never became a Jedi herself.  Maybe she was too busy.  Or maybe she’d rather bonk Han to her heart’s content than become a space nun.  There’s been some recent news that Leia was originally set to finally take up the Jedi mantle in the last ST film, something that obviously changed after Carrie’s passing in 2016.  Note that this would have been after Leia had become a widow.  Several months ago I’d listened to a podcast containing an interview with former Lucasfilm employee J.W. Rinzler.  He revealed that while the expanded universe was allowed to go nuts with Jedi romances and marriages, Lucas kept grumbling that “Jedi aren’t supposed to marry!”  He disliked Mara Jade partially for this reason.

Of every argument against Reylo happening that is the one that no one seems to take seriously yet it’s far more likely to be an issue than a sudden revelation of Rey Skywalker-Solo.  The question is were Chris Terrio and J.J. Abrams willing to say, “Hey George, your rule sucks so we’re gonna throw it out” to Lucas’s eternal annoyance?  Or, is the coupling of Rey and Ben supposed to have happened all along, even in Lucas’s drafts?  Are Rey and Ben a glaring exception to the rule?

My argument is that they are going to be an exception.  Reylo is not just about hot people hooking up, it’s about mystical forces coming together in a union that will bring the peace and stability that has evaded the galaxy since the Clone Wars.  In other words, it’s a divine marriage.  Ben and Rey are not ordinary Force users.  They are extraordinary among the extraordinary.  We already know Ben’s tremendous raw power comes from being literally the great-grandson of the Force itself.  Rey I’m sure is something very similar, a demigoddess of sorts.  Ben and Rey will demonstrate one can love deeply without it corrupting into selfishness, possessiveness, obsession, and everything else that led Anakin into believing killing his comrades to save Padmé was a really good idea.

Okay, let’s look at some hard evidence.

What’s the one word that keeps coming up over and over again with Rey and Kylo/Ben?

Intimacy.

Or some variation thereof:

“At the premiere I heard somebody in the balcony say, “Yesssss!” You can see Adam was training hardcore throughout the whole process. It’s fun but it also has a specific purpose, which is the increasing feeling of uncomfortable intimacy. That was sticking with the theme of trying to give Rey the hardest thing you could possibly give her, which would be unavoidable intimate conversation with this person that she wants to just hate. This was just one more way of upping that ante.”--Rian Johnson, Los Angeles Times, December 18, 2017

“It’s all about those Force connection scenes. The keyword being intimacy. And the idea that this was a way to just, why not step that up?(...)And so it was just another way of kind of disrobing Kylo literally and figuratively a little bit more, and pushing that sense of these conversations becoming increasingly more intimate.”--Rian Johnson, People magazine Dec. 23, 2017

“They just had this horrific fight, but Rian wanted this incredible intimacy and this cascading, twinkling waterfall of sparks from the fight before.”--Ben Morris, ILM Visual Effects Supervisor, Collider Dec. 25, 2017

“Even to the point where Adam flew to Ireland just to be off camera for Daisy’s stuff, which was essential because they’re such intimate conversations.”--Rian Johnson, People magazine Jan. 6, 2018

“That came about first and foremost from wanting a sense of intimacy”--Rian Johnson, Force of Sound Documentary Feb. 20, 2018

“And have it, you’re in their heads with just that intimacy.”--Matthew Wood, Supervising Sound Editor, Skywalker Sound Feb. 20, 2018

“Having a big sound there just didn’t have the intimacy that the scene demanded. It can be so hard to get the balance right to where the audience is feeling the same thing as the characters.”--Michael Semanic, Re-recording mixer Skywalker Sound, Postperspective Feb. 21, 2018

“But we fall back on romance because it's the best analogue we have. Rey and Kylo's relationship is more intimate than that. They've literally been in each other's minds. Rey's seen his deepest fears; he's seen the past she's buried. None of us have had that experience.”

“My point is romance may not be the endpoint of that. (Though it may be.) The analogue may be misleading, because it's an analogue. Their connection is deeper and stranger and far more complicated. I think TFA/TLJ covers those complications wonderfully, with Ep IX promising more.”--Jason Fry on Twitter Nov. 26, 2018

“At times it’s more intimate, sometimes less intimate.”--Adam Driver, Entertainment Weekly, December 2019

Relationships that are intimate aren’t necessarily romantic or sexual in nature but in modern parlance, it’s often used as a euphemism for a romantic or sexual relationship, or for sex itself i.e. “Tyler and Kaitlyn weren’t intimate until they got married.”  Because of that, it would be hella weird if they described a familial or friendly relationship in this way.  If I didn’t want my audience to believe there’s anything that could possibly be sexual happening between my characters--especially between an eligible attractive man and an eligible attractive woman--I would avoid using the term “intimate.”

If that doesn’t sell it for you, consider these statements:

“It’s the closest thing we’ll ever get to a sex scene in Star Wars”--Rian Johnson re the hand touch in TLJ.  (Who the hell says that about cousins?  Or just friends?)

“it is certainly true there is a romantic drama...”--Rian Johnson, some Japanese interview from 2017.   (By the way this was misquoted into stating there was no romance in TLJ at all.)

“I (Rian) disagreed with John (Williams) twice regarding the score. For example, there's a scene where Kylo Ren and Rey touch hands, before they are interrupted by Luke Skywalker. When John wrote the score (for this scene), he was very protective of Rey's character, exactly as is Luke. Kylo ('s presence) was menacing, musically speaking. It's a valid point of view, but I didn't think of the scene like that. I wanted it to stay on Rey's POV: I wanted that we could believe in this romance.”--Rian Johnson, Classica magazine April 25, 2019 (Note: this is an interview from English to French then translated here and here back to English but the word “romance” is the same in both languages.)

The above statements and various others we’ve all seen over the years are helpful to explain what we’ve seen in the past two films:  they’re building toward something.

On one level, the filmmakers are building toward another alliance between our space children, like what they had in TLJ.  It’s obvious that they will need to team up to defeat Palpatine because who else could?  It’s also obvious that they are key to the Force being in balance.  There has been interesting speculation on Twitter about how those forces will come together and the symbolism of a marriage by uniting mystical objects.

But being Force buddies in a tag team match against Palpatine isn’t quite high enough stakes.  Nor is “might makes right” the message of Star Wars.  These two have to be willing to fight for each other, to the death if necessary.  They have to have something to live for as well.  They have to have the secret sauce that Darth Sidious doesn’t have.  And what I’m talking about is love.  Not just the compassionate love of agape (that’s what Anakin was talking about in AOTC but he meant it differently of course) or the friendship love of philia but also the powerful, creative love of eros.  It’s basically what was happening in the throne room scene in TLJ.  They were fighting for each other and the future they saw when they touched hands.  Come on, nobody is going to do any of that just to find an apprentice or to convince someone to join an insurrection you barely spent any time with yourself.

A divine marriage between the two most powerful Force users will end the war and herald in a new age.   Either they are a new incarnation of the Prime Jedi or they will become the mother and father to this incarnation.

Plus they will kiss and get in a lot of nookie.  The end.

Credits:  r/starwarsspeculation, @reylo-evidence-collection, r/starwarscantina, @reylo5 (Instagram),

[anabe23bookwormstuff]

Naboo

*I’m really sorry if I get anything wrong but I hope you like it.

Spoilers from the rise of skywalker... kind of.

"I don't feel so comfortable about this" Rey said relaxing in her seat next to Ben on the ship.

"It's our destiny, your destiny, I promise I'll try to help you as much as I can with everything" Ben said reasuring, he was concentrated on piloting.

Rey wondered if there was no one else who wanted to rule, except for Ben of course, it wasn't that she didn't want the best for the galaxy but suddenly the responsability she felt as a jedi, the last one of two, intensified by having to answer to planets, to seek for their wellbeing, to reconstruct them.

"Don't be afraid. Breath" Ben took her hand to call her attention and offered a warm smile to her.

"I'm sorry" she sighed. As this new thing between them intensified, so their emotions, and Rey knew that if she felt conflicted that would only mirror inside Ben, she didn't want him to feel like that.

Slowly she felt calm, still some of her fears were there, buried deep, but there was more calm and light than before.

"Thank you" she whispered to him.

The trip to Naboo wasn't that long and when they landed a group of people gathered to greet them.

"Rey, Ben, thankyou for coming." The queens representative said.

"Thank you for having us" Ben said.

"Please, follow me, the queen is waiting for you"

The crowd said bye to them and handed them a few presents, little representative things from Naboo, invitations and money, like they needed it, still the detail was kind.

"Queen Zorya" Rey and Ben vowed.

The main room of the palace was huge, with tall ceilings and columns, there were many mirrors on the walls which reflected the sun in the sky and the green around them.

"Masters, it's a pleasure to have you in Naboo, I'll make sure you have the best attention and anything you need in hand" The queen stepped down her throne and walked to them.

Her red and yellow gown trailed behind her and she seemed to float.

"In your message you asked for an urgent meeting with us your majesty, so here we are" Ben said. Then queen looked at him as concealed as she could but Rey could notice it, and the faint blush on her cheecks.

"We're hoping to be useful" Rey added.

"Of course, and we will meet with my  concelours and generals, but first won't you like to eat?"

"Of course your majesty"

They followed her and a couple of guards to another room of the palace, this one was more blue and a large table occupied most of it, with beautiful lights all around.

"I can see you like the decorations" the queen said to Rey.

"The palace is beautiful, well, Naboo in general... seems like a beautiful place" The queen laughed a little and smiled at her.

"Thank you, I can show you around later if you'd like"

They took seats and answered the many questions that Zorya had, because she had also requested that they called her that, and asked some others too. Rey knew Ben was filled with curiosity and was trying to handle himself as best he could, but their connection betrayed him.

To Zoyra he may look calm, open and relaxed, which he was for the most part, but Rey felt his anticipation and longing to know more about his family, so she decided to do soemthing and face the consequences later.

"Zorya, is there any place which we could learn more about... Naboo?"

"Sure, what would you like to know?" she asked after chewing.

Ben turned to look at her and raise his brows, a confused look that Rey mirrored, making the queen laugh.

"We... I-" Rey corrected herself when Ben coughed a little, " I'll just like to know more about it's history, their rulers, their traditions... and such" she tried not to shrugg.

Zorya smiled in complicity.

"If you want to know things in general then you can visit the palace's library, and if you" this time she looked at Ben, "would like to know more about Queen Amidala, then you can also find a book with some of her notes on the library" Ben blushed a little and vowed his head in embarrasement.

"Thank you"

"No problem"

When they were done eating and the queen showed them around the palace they finally had the meeting.

They wanted to know what to do with a big group of stormtroopers which had a camp neer Theed, and an old quarter of the first order which was now abandoned.

"The troopers must leave or integrate to your society, if you allow it, then leave their old charge' ben explained.

"Of course we couldn't make this kind of desicions without you" The queen said looking at both of them, under the table Ben took Rey's hand and once again transmitted her peace.

"We're going there tomorrow to solve this issue your majesty. We can also discuss what your terms are in case any of them would like to integrate to Naboo" Rey said and Ben couldn't help but feel proud. He knew Rey would be an amazing ruler.

"Very well, you may rest. My maids will show you your rooms and any time you want something you just ask. I'll be waiting for you tomorrow." She vowed to them and left.

"Please, follow us" Ben and Rey followed the maids though a long hallway with many windows which allowed the now weaker light from the sun to come in and notice the lakes far away. Rey took a deep breath, Naboo was really a beautiful place.

Their rooms were not that far from eachother, and after they changed their clothes for more comfortable ones they decided to go to the library.

"I've found it" Ben said through their bond, Rey turned to look at him, she was folding her clothes at the edge of her bed.

"How did you get there so fast?"

"I just can't wait" he shrugged and bit his lip. Rey snickered.

"It is..." Rey closed her eyes and tried to imagine the path Ben followed, like his energy had traced a map for her and all she had to do was follow.

"Upstairs... the second room to the... left?" she opened just one eye to peak at Ben's reaction.

"You almost had it, one room to the right" he sat down somewhere.

"Ugh. Okay, I'm coming" With that he dissapeared and she was in her room again.

This trick, of trying to map eachothers moves was something they started trying after they felt better, they though that if they could master it then maybe it will be useful, if they ever got apart, or in a fight... in case there was one, plus it was fun.

"Have you found anything yet?" Rey asked coming behind him and placing her hands on his shoulders, she rubbed his arms a little in a familiar way.

"I think this is the book with the notes that Zorya mentioned... but I can't find the notes"

"Let me help" Rey opened the place beside him and leaned more to his side so she could take the book.

As she did she noticed that Ben was only looking at her.

"What?" she asked a little shy.

"Nothing. I just like how you concentrate" he ran a hand through his hair and then used his powers to pull another book from the shelves.

They were comfortable with eachother as they searched for the notes and learned a little more about the history of Naboo.

"You think they did?" Rey asked excitedly.

"They must. There are only two initials written down here, but I know they got married in secret so... it must be them" Ben said.

With the help of the notes and some book that kept record of people's marriages they thought they'd found when and where did Anakin Skywalker, Ben's grandfather, and queen Amidala got married.

"He must've loved her a lot" Rey said with a sad smile.

Ben didn't say anything but kept looking thorugh the books, but Rey could feel him.

"It is suposedly forbidden for the Jedi's to get married, and he did it anyway... it's kind of romantic" she added.

"In the end I guess things didn't go as my granfather expected" he sighed.

The moon was up in the sky now and they wanted to visit the lake country tomorrow, after they solved the issues with the troopers, so they went to bed.

"Goodnight" Ben said as they stood in front of Rey's bedroom.

"Night"

He was walking away when Rey called out for him again.

"Yeah?" she wasn't sure what to do know, she just knew she wanted... something from him.

He snickered a little and went to kiss her cheeck, then said goodbye again.

With that they both retreaed to their rooms and had a goodnight sleep.

"I'm just glad that we could solve that easy" Rey said as Ben drove through the lake on the way to the lake country.

"And we are going to be able to solve everything else" he reasured her.

It was still early when they got to the lake retreat, which used to be a place to rest for queen Amidala, and very important people too.

Luckily the house/palace was empty now, except for the caretakers who let them in.

They explored it for a bit and Ben had the feeling that definitely his family must have been there at some point.

They got separated and later Rey found him on a big balcony, it had big columns and a floor that reflected the sky, beautiful flowers on tall pots and an incredible view.

He stood with his legs parted a little and his hands clasped behind his back. Rey felt a weird pull of energy, someone else, other time... but she kept walking.

"I wouldn't mind living here" she said.

"The view is pretty great too" he said, he took his hand and guided her to the edge of the balcony so they rested against it.

"Apparently many people come here to get married" he commented.

She gave him a questioning side glance.

"hmmm"'

"I think they got married here" he said, turning his body a little more facing hers and noticing that they were know helding both hands between them.

Like the first time they touched hands when Rey was staying with Luke and Ben opened up to her, their touch send chills through their spines, their breath quickened and they found eachothers eyes.

Rey wanted to say something... but she couldn't. She could tell the smae had happened to Ben, so they just intertwined their fingers and held their hands tighter.

"There is a very special bond holding you two together" someone said interrupting them.

They let of one hand and faced the person.

"A dyad... so weird. You're lucky" it was an old man who came close to them.

"How do you know that?" Rey asked.

"Reading and meditating" the man said tapping his forehead with a finger.

"And what do you know about it?" Ben asked.

"May I touch your hands?" he answered instead.

None of them actually said yes but the man did it anyways.

He closed his eyes and hummed in agreement.

"Your life... is his life, your force... is her force" the man gesture towards Rey's heart to Ben's and back.

"There can't be one of you without the other, a same force, with two sides and one life in two bodies. It's amazing" he smiled kindly and let their hands go.

"Does that mean..."

"Well it's just that you're linked, as long as you live, she lives and the other way arround"

The man left them to rpocess this information, they already knew that... in some level they were connected, in their minds and souls but... they didn't imagine that their lives were that linked.

"I guess... since I gave you my force and you gave me yours... it makes sense" Rey said.

"You don't look that excited to have me hanging around for such a long time" he teased.

"And you're alerady predicting it's a long time" she nodded.

"I hope you get to live forever... and do all that you want" he rubber her palm with his thumb.

She smiled and pulled him to her, they stumbled a little against the railing but Ben stabilized himself with one hand and wrapped the other around Rey's waist as they kissed.

They hated that they had to go back and finish discussing thing with Zorya, but they've found peace in that place and a warm smile couldn't leave their faces.

Back at the palace Ben decided that he would convince Rey to stay with him at the lake retreat for a few days before they went back to the resistance/ restoring group.

They didn't knew but Naboo still had a couple of things to teach the young pair, mistakes that ghosts from their pasts didn't want them to make and lessons learned a long time ago.

[smhalltheurlsaretaken]

for @jedijune​​ - I thought I’d contribute some more to all the Jedi love. Press “j” to skip, it’s horrendously long.

A quick (lmao) tour of the Jedi Order’s views on blood ties and nuclear/traditional families in LucasFilms canon.

Basically, instances of Jedi calling each other brother, sister, father, etc. and their peers’ reactions to this. It’s a common misconception that despite the Jedi having their own unorthodox family structures and own ways of demonstrating love, “regular” familial bonds are taboo. Let’s see what canon has to say about that.

(This is already a very long post, so I’m ignoring Luke and Vader’s relationship, as well as Anakin and Shmi’s. Those cases are unusual and very complex, and my goal is to showcase the Jedi’s general take on family, not their opinions on two exceptions.)

1) Likening your Master to a family member = fairly common

AotC Obi-Wan and Anakin

AotC Anakin to Padmé, about Obi-Wan

Jedi Crash, TCW s1e13 Aayla Secura to Ahsoka, about Quinlan Vos and Anakin

Gone Without a Trace, TCW s7e5 Ahsoka to Trace Martez, about Anakin

Ahsoka and Anakin may be unusual Jedi, but Aayla isn’t. In RotS and TCW s7, we see her in a Council meeting despite her being a Knight. It means she is respected and trusted despite her youth and low rank. Aayla isn’t characterized as a maverick in any way despite her chaotic Master, and we have thus no reason to believe her openness about her relationship with Quinlan is an exception. What’s more, in the episode she’s specifically using that relationship to explain to Ahsoka how love for one’s Master and the importance of letting go aren’t contradictory. 

Obi-Wan doesn’t appear in the least uncomfortable after Anakin’s admission. He actually takes it so casually it seems to imply this is not the first time he’s heard this. Far from dismissing Anakin’s feelings or rebuking him for calling him a father figure, Obi-Wan uses the analogy to ask Anakin why he isn’t better behaved - he’s literally asking “well if I’m your dad, why can’t you be a good kid?” 

In all four cases, the Jedi comparing their Master to a family member is either talking to a non-Jedi or within earshot of one. Clearly they are not worried about giving a wrong image of the Order, so it’s safe to assume they’re not alone in their views. So yeah, calling your Master a father/brother - and probably a mother/sister? Not taboo.

2) Having blood ties within the Order = perfectly okay

The Unknown, TCW s6e1 Tiplar and Tiplee

Wookieepedia Stass Allie and Adi Gallia

These four women are Masters, not Knights. It means they have proven themselves to their peers - they’re not under scrutiny for potentially being “attached.” Adi and Stass both served on the Council, indicating the rest of the Council is fine with people having blood connections with other Jedi. If you look up the origin of Stass’ character, you’ll find it was Lucas himself who made her Adi’s cousin. 

Tiplar and Tiplee call each other “sister” in public, they are co-generals and they wear matching outfits (same cut, but the colors are inverted). Tiplee openly displays grief and affection for her sister, in front of Jedi (Anakin) and non-Jedi alike (the troops). Again, no taboo here. 

(Edit: Depa Billaba, Mace Windu’s padawan and Caleb/Kanan’s Master also had a sister in the Order, Sar Labooda. She died on Geonosis and her parentage to Depa is such an obscure piece of trivia that no material in the Legends EU or the Disney EU ever made use of it, but still. Depa served on the Council several times and both Depa and Sar were Masters, so the point stands.) 

3) Acknowledging blood ties to non-Jedi = perfectly okay

Kidnapped, TCW s4e11 Ahsoka to the Jedi Council, about the people of Kiros

RotJ Obi-Wan to Luke, about Leia

Ahsoka claims a connection to the people of Kiros in front of the whole Council, (she’s from Shili btw - she’s thus claiming blood ties as a Togruta, not geographical ties) and nobody reacts in any way to her outburst - no censure, no disapproving looks, nothing. Identifying with your biological people is fine. 

Obi-Wan goes a step further with this and praises Luke for caring about his sister. He is very clear about why Luke shouldn’t acknowledge the connection: their sibling bond is a good thing, but it’ll be used against them. You can’t see it in the screenshots, but Luke actually nods twice in this scene: once when Obi-Wan tells him to bury his feelings, and once when Obi-Wan explains why. Luke agrees that he shouldn’t show his feelings for Leia - so this isn’t a case of a Master forcefully repressing his student’s emotional life.

4) A broader view

a) Obi-Wan and Anakin RotS Obi-Wan to Yoda, about Anakin

RotS Obi-Wan and Anakin

Essays have been written on these two, so I’ll stick to this: when Obi-Wan tells Yoda he cannot kill Anakin because of the bond between them, Yoda does not condemn him. He does not say something along the lines of “suck it up, attachment is forbidden and you should have known better.” 

He says instead “he isn’t your brother anymore. The man you love as part of your family is gone. It’s not your brother you’ll be killing.” That’s very, very, very different. Yoda acknowledges and accepts the connection between Obi-Wan and Anakin, but he cannot let it stop them from doing their duty to the Galaxy. (As Aayla said in Jedi Crash, you can’t lose thousands of lives for the sake of one.)

b) According to the Order itself The Gathering, TCW s5e6 Narrator to the audience, about the Order

Narration guy is rarely entirely objective, so you can take it with a grain of salt. Still, Ahsoka and Plo’s relationship is generally accepted as the more overtly familial one of the show, and that’s what’s illustrating narration guy’s claim here. Seems legit.

c) Outsider POV The Citadel, TCW s3e18 Osi Sobeck to his droids, about the Order

Osi Sobeck is a complete psycho and an enemy of the Jedi, so make of that what you will.

5) BONUS CONTENT (not LucasFilms)

Darth Vader (2017) Kirak Infil’a to Darth Vader, about the Order

Darth Vader (2017)  Jocasta Nu to the Grand Inquisitor, about the Order

RotS novelization, Matthew Stover Dooku to Palpatine, about Obi-Wan

(Please note that I added those last bits because they fit in well, not because I see the old EU or the Disney EU as basis for characterization. For example, I’m not touching Dooku’s convoluted Disney backstory with a twenty-parsec pole.)

tldr: The Jedi Order is portrayed in canon material as pretty chill with traditional family structures among its own members. The Jedi have nothing against brotherly/sisterly bonds and they acknowledge that Masters are very much like parents. Using the complicated issue that is Anakin’s relationship with his own mother as the measure for our understanding of Jedi views on family is unfair and ignores tons of what Lucas (and later Filoni) showed on screen. 

[phoenixyfriend]

SW Suddenly-Omegaverse AU: Surrogacy, Worldbuilding, Obi-Mom

Truly the main irony of all this is that everyone considers Obi-Wan the Better Omega but Anakin is the one who's actually 👀👀👀 about pregnancy

Obi-Wan: I have the deepest respect for those who do it, but the idea of growing another person inside of me is weird and gross, no, thank you.

Meanwhile Anakin is like. Immediate baby fever. Someone actually approaches him like "hey... there are forms you can fill out to request an exception for pregnancy, and like... regulations" because he's that obvious about it.

I assume that if they've got safety nets for accidental pregnancies, then they're probably aware that there are people who want to do it on purpose? I feel like in an omegaverse where 'biological imperative to procreate' can be so much more intense, then maybe there's old precedent that stuck around even after suppressants got most of those hormones under better control.

Bit torn. Just know I want Anakin to Make Baby.

"Anakin, what are you--" "Do you think offering to be someone's surrogate would be acceptable to the council as a way to be pregnant without getting attached." "...what." "They'd probably accept that as a way to practice not getting attached, right?" "N...no, that's not... what?"

Anakin approaching Bail and Breha and being like “Do you... still want a kid? I would provide a kid. Do you want one here*?”

* in this dimension

Great way to give up the baby as a parent because he'd still be able to see them once in a while but also like... it's not HIS kid, technically. He can be a cool uncle who happened to give birth, which is distant enough to not be 'attached,' but close enough that his Tatooine-raised 'must ensure family is safe whenever possible' background doesn't flip out. It helps that 'Core World Royalty' is like... a top-tier family to be raised in.

(It would have to be post-war because he probably shouldn’t be risking his life while very pregnant. He needs to be reminded of that sometimes.)

Bail/Breha is an alpha/alpha relationship and while a pregnancy is still possible,* it’s a whole lot more difficult, and that's on top of Breha's canon medical issues that resulted in her heart and lungs getting replaced.

* AFAB alphas can get pregnant, and AMAB omegas can inseminate, but the success rate on that angle is much lower than the 'traditional' alpha/omega roles, as is any attempt at reproduction outside rut/heat. They're low-fertility overall for the non-dominant aspect of their reproductive system, which... ha, Anakin and Obi-Wan try to get explanations for why the senary system works the way it does, but it's a very longform history lesson that comes down to 'idk this got cemented so long ago that nobody really knows why anymore.'

AKA "why do you title these roles male omega and female alpha instead of intersex omega and intersex alpha since both parties have both genitals."

ANYWAY

Anakin: I want to make babies. But I don't want to get kicked out of the order. But I don't want to give up my own babies for adoption. But I can't keep my own babies if I want to stay a Jedi. So basically I want to have someone else's babies? Anakin: ...wait shit that's just surrogacy.

Anakin, calling up Obi-Wan: Hey are the Organas still struggling to have a kid? Obi-Wan: ...not really your business. Anakin: You're friends with Bail again though, right? Obi-Wan: I am, but-- Anakin: Do you think they'd want me to be a surrogate? Obi-Wan: What.

I can't decide if it's funnier for the Order to be like "I mean... technically there's no rules against this?" or if this is a precedent set by at least three omegas every generation because that's just how a/b/o manifested for omegas in a biological and cultural sense.

Bail: Wait, your former apprentice is... volunteering... to be our surrogate. Obi-Wan, exhausted: Yes. Bail: He barely knows us. Obi-Wan: He respects you and you're the closest people he knows that want a child and would be good parents. Bail: And he's just... volunteering? Obi-Wan: Yes. Also, you did say your primary worry was that a surrogate might be targeted for assassination and you couldn't ask someone to risk that, right? Anakin is very much able to avoid assassins, and would be staying primarily in the Temple anyway. Very safe, and not particularly scared of assassins in the first place. Bail: Your words say you approve, but your tone says otherwise. Obi-Wan: Anakin considers me his father. I'm not old enough to be a grandparent. Bail: Ah.

Anakin is a surrogate and enjoys it and everything is fine and then like a year later he's accidentally pregnant with his own and Rex's kid, and nobody knows how to ask if it's actually an accident.

A suggestion from @gelpenss:

OH MAN i.... have to drive home. But I just had a thought about like. I always want to poke at Betas in A/B/O like are they “normal” or different from our standard or.... but ANYWAY assuming they have a pheromonal thing I just think it would be neat if betas had the ability to be the Bucket of Cold Water. Like if caught early enough, and with the caveat it’s not permanent, a beta could arrest a rut or heat in its tracks until a more ideal time. Like. They aren’t birth control. But they are the remind me later button.

Okay done driving I am Returned to bring up why I brought up betas and it’s this: well okay 1. It plays nice with a popular but inaccurate dog breeding urban legend that female dogs will like, delay heat cycles? so that the bitches above them in pack hierarchy have first choice of mate selection. And I think in omegaverse it would be cool if that was a Bio Fact, and also historically enforced by the third designation. 2. It gives me an excuse to have betas have the Most Sensitive sense of smell because it’s their “job” to pick up on things before they go too far to be put on pause. 3. I’m just thinkin ‘bout a beta clone [...] just hovering around Obi-Wan because they found out how much stress his heat cycle causes and they’re like “okay cool I will help make sure it does Not”

I want to like a/b/o verses but betas niggle at me. I want to give them a hat and a Function that woulda helped before modern medicine.

I'm not sure how I feel about betas being able to delay heats, but I do like the idea of them having a more sensitive sense of pheromone smell than most. Most aliens assume it's omegas with the best sense of smell, and betas with the worst, but it's more complicated than that because they all specialize: Alphas are actually less attuned to pheromone smells, but more attuned to things that were useful back when humans were still a hunter-gatherer species. Omegas tend to be heightened towards danger smells like fire or aggression, and pheromones relating to children/care. Betas, as suggested above, are very sensitive to pheromone changes relating to mood and behavior of the community around them.

I like the idea that betas were historically the ones that ended up taking care children, unmated omegas, and so on during people's heats and ruts, because they kept their heads about themselves long enough to do things like cook and clean while someone was reeking of hormones. The checks and balances work out that betas may have lower fertility, but it makes them better able to support the network around them.

It works in with humanity's general collective history of thriving the most when working as a community.

Given that I decided that this is Jangobi, the clones might all subconsciously view Obi-Wan as Mom. Not intentionally, but, you know... Obi-Wan the not-evil stepmother. He doesn't know how he got into this situation, but he sure is here, and he sure as hell doesn't know how to get out.

Obi-Wan "I don't need to get pregnant, I have three million stepchildren" Kenobi

I definitely love "clones all want to make Obi-Wan's heats less stressful" but like in a different way from Whatever The Fuck Anakin's Got Going On.

Obi-Wan using the force to dull the pain in a Shiny's broken leg while the medic works on it and the Shiny just mumbles "Thanks mom" and everyone gets very embarrassed and pretends it didn't happen.

But then it happens again. And again.

Obi-Wan asks for an explanation from Cody and gets a halting response that, since Jango is technically their father, and his scent has been all over Obi-Wan recently... and Obi-Wan puts in a lot of effort to take care of them all.......

Anakin overhears the clones calling Obi-Wan "mom" and just. The most judgmental eyebrow raise.... Mostly in the sense of "You never let me call you dad" "Thought you said you weren't anyone's parent." "Hey, hey, Obi-Wan. What the fuck."

BOBA. BOBA ABSOLUTELY CALLS OBI-WAN MOM WHENEVER POSSIBLE. IT'S DEEPLY FRUSTRATING.

Obi-Wan eventually manages to admit that he's uncomfortable with it at minimum because of the gendering the word has for him, can they at least use the neutral 'buir' instead?

Word spreads like fire, takes like two days max for everyone to switch.

(Anakin demands cuddles as compensation for not getting to call Obi-Wan any true parental term for years.)

[alcida-auka]

Okay, I finally realized what Leia’s legacy thing was about

It hit me as I was going to bed. 

So you know the passage from the novel going round in which Leia thinks about how she is Leia Organa Skywalker Solo? And how each of those names are legacies for three people?

I realize what it means.

And it feels like a nice thematic tie in to one of the best Star Wars books ever, Claudia Gray’s Bloodlines, btw.

Anyways.

Those family names represent Leia’s identities and what the mean to her, how they represent different aspects of her life.

Who is Leia Organa? Organa represents her parents, Bail and Breha Organa, whose lives, like Padme’s were devoted to the Galaxy, the people, always being in service to the cause of the people. Leadership, both military and government. This was Leia’s professional part of her life, and her name Organa that she used in public represented her life as a Princess of the People.

Poe Dameron will carry on that legacy of being a leader, not just a military leader, but I suspect he will carry over those leadership traits in a non-war manner. In short, Poe is Leia’s protege.

Leia Skywalker. To Leia, Skywalker represents the side of her life that she did not exercise physically too much, that of the Jedi, the life of her father and brother. It represents the spiritual part of her life, and while she may not have finished the Jedi path (for good reason), it influenced her spiritually throughout her life.

Rey will continue Leia’s spiritual journey as a Jedi.

Leia Solo. Who is Leia Solo? A wife. A mother. This name represents family to Leia, love and hope, the home, her identity as a wife, someone who loved and fell in love.

Ben Solo is his father’s son. He carries Leia’s hope of love and family, Leia wants her son to love and find home. His legacy is one of LOVE. Of being a spouse.

So all these three names represent three aspects of Leia’s life:

1. Work/Leadership

2. Spiritual 

3. Family/Love 

One day, I hope Rey actually learns to reconcile and embrace her multiple legacies as Leia has done. I love how Gray’s book Bloodlines explored Leia’s conception of herself as a child of the Organas, and her difficulty reconciling herself with being the daughter of Anakin Skywalker. In TROS, I believe she has found that reconciliation.

I hope Rey someday thinks of herself as Rey Skywalker Palpatine Solo of Jakku-- to embrace the Jedi family whose traditions she honors, the complicated legacy of her Palpatine ancestry, and her dyad marriage to Ben Solo.

[knightotoc]

I can't really rank the SW movies, but I can sort of put them in categories. I wrote a bit about each one because I've never seen a list in an order like mine, though if you're asking me to be rational that is something I know I cannot do.

(This is really long)

1. The ones I love the most: 

Attack of the Clones

🍐 favorite characters, favorite planets

🍐 my soul is anchored to early naughts high-key cheesy emo, à la Raimi Spider-Mans

🍐 most Jedi per square inch

🍐 it's pretty and it kicks ass

🍐 the romance is the A-plot for ONCE

🍐 AND it's a "dark middle chapter" that pulls no fucking punches, the whole Tatooine sequence is just hnnnnggrhhh BRUTAL

🍐 the only "dark middle chapter" in which the person explaining the Jedi way (Anakin) doesn't believe in it and the person listening (Padme) doesn't want to join but just cares about him

🍐 morally ambiguous organized religion/monasticism/chivalry are interesting and personally important subjects to me, a Catholic feminist who majored in Medieval Studies

🍐 the hinge between two time periods I love, "Obi Wan trains Anakin" and "the Clone Wars"

🍐 sets up both Clone Wars shows and both KotORs

Return of the Jedi

🐻 SO much fun, SO much imagination

🐻 like RotS, both the silliest and the most tragic in its trilogy (and imo it pulls it off)

🐻 the ending -- Luke tossing his lightsaber, Palpatine killing him, Anakin saving him -- I just -- gahhhh that's what it's all about, dude😭😭😭 It makes me love the Jedi SO MUCH!

🐻 Luke's plan to rescue Han is as bonkers as Dooku's plan to begin the war and I'm obsessed

🐻 Leia's hair down and Luke in black👌

The Last Jedi

🍸 absolute masterpiece of tragedy and hope

🍸 it's so SMART and has this wisdom that brings me so much comfort facing personal failures and societal horrors

🍸 "That's how we win -- not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love" -- Rose the Queen of Themes

🍸 the cave scene in which Luke summarizes the prequels and Rey summarizes the original trilogy is so validating

🍸 "Where's Han?" [cut to Kylo]

🍸 all the transitions but that one ^^^^ especially

🍸 best visions in the movies (Rey's mirrors and Luke's twin suns)

🍸 Yoda is the best ghost and wisest teacher as he deserves😭

🍸 Leia Vader parallels are my biggest weakness

Revenge of the Sith

🔥 I can't handle this one

🔥 it's straight up Camelot and Lancelot is my favorite invention in all of fiction, and here he is as an evil space wizard

🔥 I literally can't listen to this soundtrack and drive because I get too sad

🔥 they hate each other SO MUCH ahhgggg, NO other characters come close to this level of emotion

🔥 the Matthew Stover novelization is even more beautiful

🔥 this meta-level tragedy, the dramatic irony of a guy who has been evil since 1977, a name similar to the Greek goddess of inevitability, the swirling destiny of his "prophecy" and his doom, but still I'm like "DON'T DO IT ANI" as if he ever had a chance

🔥 they play the fucking ANH medals theme at the end of the credits and it blows my mind. Absolutely brilliant

🔥 can you believe that only RotS and TLJ have shirtless scenes in them

2. The ones I also really love:

The Phantom Menace

😈 best soundtrack. All the prequels have the most thoughtful and interesting music in my opinion, but I could go on forever about TPM's.

😈 my favorite musical piece in all of SW is the Baby Anakin theme. It's so terribly sad; it sounds to me like rivers and waterfalls. They use it several times in AotC, too. The end of the melody transitions into the Imperial March😭

😈 Duel of the Fates is the actual star of the movie, of course; the words are a Sanskrit translation of a medieval Welsh poem. Ask me about how the lyrics apply to the fates of Qui-Gon, Maul, and Obi-Wan because I've FIGURED IT OUT

😈 also the cleverest piece in SW is Augie's Municipal Band, the parade theme, which is the Emperor's theme from RotJ in major key and sped up

😈 speaking of Palpatine, this is his best movie and I've basically sold my soul to him so👏👏👏we stan

😈 I've probably thought and written the most about this movie and the time periods around it, the training of Maul and Anakin. If you can believe it😅

Empire Strikes Back

☁️ it's the best one

☁️ the "dark middle chapter" that sets the standard for AotC and TLJ

☁️ "Luminous beings are we"😭

☁️ Bespin Leia is the best look in the movies

☁️ "The evil lord Darth Vader, OBSESSED with finding young Skywalker"😂 Ani has a reason to live again, oh no

A New Hope

🤖 the only one you need

🤖 an actual piece of magic on Earth

🤖 Old Obi-Wan is heartache personified

🤖 bow down to Tarkin

🤖 best droid movie

Solo

🎲 the other kissy movie

🎲 SO much fun; John Powell puts so much energy and excitement in his music

🎲 how does this random movie have the best character designs after AotC

🎲 GIRL DROID!!!

🎲 really different point of view on the central theme of family

🎲 that cameo tho

🎲 where's my sequel

Rogue One

🌠 the most visually beautiful SW movie; it fits into the tradition of beautiful 70s sci-fi movies like 2001 and Star Trek TMP, which focus on the hugeness and wonder of outer space

🌠 can Cassian and Rose please overthrow the government

🌠 I have a real theater poster of this one in my room :D (I also have one of TLJ)

🌠 does so right by Vader

🌠 makes the Rebellion more complicated, just like the prequels did to the Jedi Order

3. The ones I don't like:

The Force Awakens

The Rise of Skywalker

I want to like them, especially TFA, but I find it difficult. I feel like they lack confidence as stories, and they don't take things like death and faith very seriously. Many planets explode, but they are grieved even less than Alderaan is in ANH. And if you just pray hard enough, God will help you out. It bothers me that THAT was the culmination of Rey's spiritual journey, versus the more relatable and dramatic endings for the male Jedi protagonists Luke, Anakin, and Ezra.

I have rewatched TFA a few times and I like parts of it, like the scavenging setting in the beginning and how handsome everyone is. Some of Maz's lines justify the borrowed plot in an interesting way. And I've thought of some headcanons to make TRoS more okay, because they did so wrong by Palpatine but not necessarily by "the Sith" as a Borg-like force of evil that, I guess, consumed him. So despite JJ's best efforts, I'm trying to make this work.

[meta-shadowsong]

On Change for the Jedi Order

Specifically in Relation to Nontraditional/Latecomer Students

So, there’s a commentary that’s been floating around lately, that examines whether the Jedi Order/culture should change purely because of Anakin’s issues integrating (and later issues as an adult, some of which are related). And if that were the question, then the answer is probably no--as these commentaries have pointed out, the vast majority of Jedi don’t have that kind of trouble and are, so far as we the audience can tell, happy/fulfilled. Or, if not, they’re willing and able to depart under peaceful circumstances. And, as has also been pointed out, if they did adapt to the changing galaxy in the ways that fandom, with its external viewpoint, would suggest, who’s to say Palpatine wouldn’t be thinking five steps ahead of them and have a contingency plan in place? (The man does love his contingency plans, I gotta say.)

These are valid points, particularly in terms of some of the doctrines/requirements placed on adults/full Jedi (i.e., no marriage, etc.) that tend to catch a lot of criticism, but I feel like there’s a piece missing from this conversation. And that’s a consideration of other nontraditional/latecomer students (and/or nonstudents who are rejected for being too old), aside from Anakin. Because, from where I’m standing, the evidence indicates that the traditionalist Jedi Order, as it is at the fall of the Republic, is not super great at helping them integrate.

Before I get into my actual examples/analysis, I want to say that I don’t think this is from a lack of compassion or effort on the part of the Order. I do believe that, once a nontraditional student is accepted, they are given support in terms of that integration. I just don’t think it’s very effective support, because I don’t think that the Order, as it stands at that point, is very well set up for it.

Second, I want to say that the reason why this matters is that there’s a not-insignificant implication that not all potential candidates are identified within the acceptable age range; and therefore some unknown, and possibly significant (in proportion to the size of the Order itself) number of people are actually affected by this policy. I’ve touched on this before, but the fact that Palpatine (who comes from a) a Republic sector capital, b) a culture that highly values children, and c) parents with means) is never identified indicates that there are some significant gaps in the search process; probably particularly for populations that are more likely to slip through the cracks in a society like the Republic (i.e., the deep underlevels of Coruscant; remote farming/mining communities that are essentially Space Appalachia; etc.)

I should also mention, as a caveat, that we unfortunately have very few examples of nontraditional students within canon, so it’s admittedly not the greatest sample size in the world--I came up with five, which I will discuss at some length. But the sample sizes for any discussion on this subject are pretty small (I think we have personal information/significant canon detail on maybe a hundred members (i.e., ~1%) of the Jedi Order of this period?), so assumptions have to be made regardless. The way I’m defining my five examples is that they are students who came to the Jedi Path later than the traditional Order would typically allow, and they were trained/raised by Jedi Masters who were themselves traditionally trained (so far as we know).

Okay. Moving on.

So, the five nontraditional students we see in any detail are Anakin, Rael Avaross, Luke, Ezra, and Ventress.

With Anakin and Rael, we see a failure to adapt to the culture. Again, this is despite a genuine effort given on the part of their teachers. Admittedly, I’m less familiar with Rael, since I haven’t gotten around to reading Dooku Lost myself, but I’ve read enough excerpts and analyses that I feel like I have a general idea of what’s going on. Basically, my understanding is that he has some of the same issues Anakin has, relating to the family he left behind, and wanting things that are out of step with Jedi values. And, yes, at least with Anakin, Palpatine’s manipulations play a role in that. But the fact that he’s not the only example indicates (to me, at least) that it’s not the only factor in play here.

Obviously, this disconnect does not in any way excuse what Anakin (or Rael) later does, when he comes to a crisis point. I’m not trying to say that.

What I am trying to say is that I think this is an issue of conflicting expectations, and a fundamental miscommunication/disconnect despite genuine effort, particularly in the early stages, that leaves nontraditional students with a shaky foundation even if/when they find workarounds to appear like things are on track. Because the fact is that the Jedi Order typically takes in very small children, who can absorb most of these cultural norms essentially by osmosis, through a combination of infant neuroplasticity and the Force. An older child needs a different approach, and I’m not sure that the Jedi Order actually has the tools it needs to adapt their teaching style effectively to those circumstances. Especially when trying to integrate someone into a close-knit, fairly isolated/insular culture, which is difficult for an outsider/newcomer under the best of circumstances, on top of the new modes of behavior/emotional processing/etc. And, given how few nontraditional students there are, this is definitely a factor.

So, then it becomes sort of a feedback loop--older/nontraditional students have trouble adapting, which means the Jedi Order is less likely to take them on in the future, which means any they do take in have further troubles, etc., etc. Legends sort of indicated how this cycle started; canon has not; but frankly it’s a chicken-and-egg situation as of the period we’re talking about. Once that cycle does start, it’s hard to break.

Which brings me to my next set of examples, and the reason I think this is at least in part an issue in the Jedi Order’s teaching style.

Luke and Ezra are also nontraditional students, who are taught by traditionally-trained masters. And they are both successful.

And maybe, in part, that comes down to some quirk in personality that they share that Anakin and Rael don’t. But there’s also the fact that (due to genuinely horrific circumstances; and I will interrupt myself here and now to say that, while I do advocate for change on this particular issue, I don’t think the catalyst for change had to be, let alone should have been, what it was; but in canon, it was a catalyst for a change in approach), their masters had to adapt traditional teachings and values into a somewhat nontraditional framework. One reason I lean more towards the second/change in approach as the stronger factor--and, granted, we don’t have many specific examples to cite; plus they don’t fit technically my established definition--is that Luke’s new Academy would pretty much have to be all nontraditional students, and, so far as I can tell, the vast majority of them seem to have been successful, or on their way there, until Kylo Ren happened.

So, that leads to the conclusion that there’s an issue in how traditional Jedi Order teachings/teaching styles work with nontraditional students. Meaning, the Jedi Order of the late Republic era has difficulty in adapting said styles to the needs of the few older candidates they do take in, though not for lack of trying.

At this point, I’ll interrupt myself again to say that adjusting these practices might have an impact on the children who are brought in at a more typical age, and there’s possibly a balance to be struck between the needs of those students and the needs of these others. The way the culture is structured now does seem to be beneficial for the majority of students brought in the usual way, and fixing this flaw might open another, which might be more detrimental in the long run. And if there were any viable alternatives for training and support, that would be the end of it, as far as I was concerned. But the fact is--there aren’t. Pretty much all other Force-adepts we see seem to be closed ethnoreligious groups (or Sith). So I think an increase in flexibility in the early-stage teaching style/age limit for adoption is actually of a net benefit. Whether or not any changes are made to the broader framework/culture past that period, which is a separate discussion.

And that brings me to Ventress, my final example, who is much more complicated and harder to discuss due to several key pieces of evidence that are missing.

Where does she fit into all of this?

The implication in her flashbacks seem to be that she does pretty well with Ky Narec, who--without the same awful circumstances pushing his choices--adapts and uses a non-traditional/one-on-one approach with her, rather than trying to bring her to the Temple and integrate her into the culture right away.

Of course, there are a couple of issues with this. One, Ventress falls apart when he dies, so his approach also clearly had some flaws. Two, her memories may not be the most reliable/she might not be a super reliable narrator. Three, we are missing so much information about how and in what order everything went down.

First, why did Ky Narec make the choices he did? One explanation is that he had no way off the planet/no long-range communications and couldn’t contact the rest of the Order. I find this hard to believe for two reasons: how did Ventress then get offplanet after he died; and how did she get onto the planet in the first place? Someone there has a connection with the wider galaxy, and if Ky Narec really wanted to make contact, I’m sure he could’ve found a way.

So, why didn’t he? Was it because he knew Ventress was too old, and he felt he lacked the standing/social or political capital to convince the Council to accept her anyway? Was that assessment accurate on his part? Alternatively, did he think he could get her accepted, but felt that some training on their own before trying to integrate her into the broader culture was the better approach; and then he died before he could complete that process? Was he already thinking about leaving (as did the Lost Twenty), and she was what pushed him to actually take that step? I’m sure there are other possible explanations, but those are the ones that jump to mind.

Second, what did he tell her? What were her expectations for if/when they finally made contact with the Order? Did he warn her that her training was unauthorized and the Order would not accept her (whether or not that was actually true)?

Third, what did she actually do when he died? Did she try to reach out to the Order? Did she assume that there was no point? Did she reach out to her sisters on Dathomir? (From what I recall, most likely not, but it’s been a while since I watched the relevant TCW episodes.) Did she go straight to Dooku?

Fourth, when she did finally contact Dooku, was she seeking him out as a former Jedi who might have some understanding and compassion for her situation, or was she seeking him out as a Sith Lord/Dark Side adept? (Unless that’s actually covered in her flashbacks as well; again, I might be misremembering/have forgotten.)

So…yeah. It’s really hard to evaluate this question fully without more information on how everything with Ventress went down. But all the other evidence does indicate a disconnect.

I guess my point in all of this was…no, it’s not right for an entire culture to have to change everything for one person. But on the other hand, there’s something to be said for a test case/case study that draws attention to an existing flaw in the structure. And Anakin, while the most visible, isn’t actually the only one here.

Also...on a more general note, cultures are dynamic. They do change over time. Sometimes very rapidly, when change is forced by external pressures, sometimes more organically, by gradual internal shifts. So, the implication that the culture of the Jedi Order should remain exactly as it is as of the late Republic because that’s the best possible way for it to be, no matter how much the broader culture of the galaxy and/or their role in it might shift, feels…a little off to me. Especially since the war itself was already an impetus for change. The postwar Jedi Order was almost certainly going to be somewhat different from the prewar Order; how drastic or subtle that change would be without Anakin making all the wrong choices is a little harder to determine. And--look, I know I’m citing Legends here, because canon has yet to provide deep (i.e., 100+ years pre-TPM) backstory, but some of these things already have shifted over time, in response to both internal and external pressures. The age limit for taking in initiates/apprentices being one of them.

...but I’ll admit that that last paragraph may be me misinterpreting/reading too much into some of the posts and my There Is No One True Way button getting pushed again whether or not it’s merited in this case XD

Anyway, tangent aside, I just wanted to highlight why I feel this particular issue should be addressed, even if the expected cultural norms/code of conduct for Jedi who have integrated into the culture remain the same. Because, yeah, those seem to work out for most members, and the option to leave is there for those who have issues.

But the problem of latecomers/nontraditional students, particularly when there aren’t really any other options available to them for training and support, and there are an unknown (but possibly significant, in proportion to the size of the Order itself) number out there, is still a Thing.

((Also, one last tangent re: why this matters/is a Thing…look, applying IRL issues/politics/history and so on to Star Wars can be a weird/hinky/YMMV thing, apart from certain direct/explicit/obviously intentional parallels, and in general I try to avoid doing it--and, like, earlier today, I had to stop myself from going off on a long tangent about the Constitutions of Clarendon and Thomas Becket on a semi-related post about Ahsoka; if I want to do it, I can--but given the issues older kids/teenagers have being adopted IRL, and given the idea that baby Jedi are essentially adoptees, the fact that older kids are excluded is a little…yeah.))