#the irish folk music i understand but why american country. not that its bad but i dont understand it

[dullahandyke]

Have discovered a nook in which somebody has set up a rocking chair and a CD player and I was like grand job I can listen to my parents' CD collection :) and then i remembered what the CD collection looks like

[fencesandfrogs]

sea shanties, work songs, tiktok

so apparently tiktok and sea shanties (technically they’re usually sea folk songs, based on the ones i’ve heard, which is not many) are having a moment and as someone who’s always been a fan of work songs, esp. sea shanties, i just wanted to take a moment to talk/think about them.

[this is abt 1.4k words with a lot of music, incl. 4 embeded videos. i included this break because scrolling past long posts is annoying but like. there’s some good music to listen to in here even if u don’t want to read the whole thing.]

call & response is a pretty common musical idea. i’m not sure at all, but i’d wager a good deal that it’s probably some of the oldest stuff we have. but, like, if you’ve ever sung anything in a group, it’s there. the classic call and response is shorter, but i just want to also say a lot of music can be thought of as call and response, like verses/choruses, etc.

i think it just speaks to a human desire to participate in music. many people know what i’m talking about here (maybe most? i come from a musical family so i don’t have a good breadth of experience but i’ve met very few people who don’t jive to music), and so we make this little welcoming come sing with me environment.

anyway, so work songs are a type of music meant to coordinate labor. a lot of work songs are formed by slaves, because for a work song to be helpful, you need to be doing work that requires coordination.

sea shanties are a specific type of work song that use the general structure of the american slave work song combine with irish, scottish, and english folk music.

folk music as a whole is a wider genre that overlaps a lot with work songs, especially as you start to turn to industrial work songs and cowboy work songs and the like which have a less specific rhythm than sea shanties specifically.

musical edification complete, i’m going to focus on sea shanties and industrial work songs b/c that’s what i listen to the most.

so call and response. sea shanties usually have a soloist part that’s a bit more musically complex, and the response is “simpler”. i’m not here to talk abt music theory or why they developed like that, but you know when you’re bad at singing, having a simple part to join in with is positive. hits the warm gooey spot of participating in group music. here’s a recording of blow the man down which i think demonstrates this quality really well:

(it’s a pretty popular shanty which is why i picked it. the “truth”of my argument is not at all universal, and it’s not just about speed, but also the rhythm, melody, etc.)

anyway there’s a lot of shanties and what typically comes to mind is drunken sailor which i know “all” the words to (as much as anyone can) but you’ll see theré’s no call and response

what do you do with a drunken sailor

what do you do with a drunken sailor

what do you do with a drunken sailor

early in the morning

right? that’s not a call and response, it’s just repetition. lyrically, its a call and response:

put him in bed with the captain’s daughter

(that’s my favorite line bc as kids we didn’t understand it so it made us laugh)

but musically you’re not having a back and forth. and so they’re things everyone just gets to sing together.

and that brings me to more industrial work songs. my favorite is sixteen tons, because i’m a basic bitch, and the line “saint peter don’t you call me cause i can’t go” is eternally stuck in my head. here’s a full version:

so as you can see, there’s no call and response, but the melody is relatively simple. it’s repetitive, the range is decent, and it’s got a really flexible tempo (the video i chose is pretty moderate, but here’s a fast one (and this is pure performance), and i swear i have a slower version on my computer but i can’t find it for the life of me).

(aside: one thing to notice in the johnny cash version is the backing. his is far more complex than ernie ford, and that’s because it’s dropped all pretense of being a work song. work songs don’t have much behind them because they’re almost always a capello. this isn’t super relevant to the discussion i just wanted to point it out.)

so mining work songs are generally like this (see black waters, another favorite of mine), and it’s not hard to see where folk music as a genre develops:

i just really like this song it’s probably not the best example.

on the other hand, other folk music maintains the structure. lets look at oh susanna (i hate this version, but the vocals are very clear so uhhh here’s a random cool fancy one listen to this it’s super cool).

the whole thing is fairly repetitive, it doesn’t have a strictly definite end, etc. the melody is still pretty simple, although i will say, having sung this in a choir, it can get more complicated in arrangement pretty easily.

anyway, this becomes bluegrass which is basically the folk version of country, here’s callin baton rogue which is absolutely one of the best songs to ever be written. this version is done by garth brooks, country singer, but listen to that fiddle and tell me it’s country.

(this is future matthew with an edit just to say, like, i’m not trying to establish a *strictly* factual chain of music genres here. bluegrass is, i believe, related closely to jazz & blues, while country was formed directly as an opposition to jazz & music history is really complicated.)

you get a lot of ballads here, eg ballad of john henry. i’m not going to say that’s good. but uh there’s a lot to filter through and i’m supposed to be working on my computer science assignment not doing an exploratory discussion of work songs and associated genres.

so this brings us to scottish/irish/english ballads. the clancy brothers are a popular band here, my mom had them on in the car a lot. here’s the work of the weavers for a slower song, but a good one, and here’s moonshiner, which is both a good song and takes me to my next point: sea songs, folk song, and tiktok (see its almost the same as the title it’s a joke).

i’m happy to see folk music making a resurgence. it was really a shame that we spent such a long time listening to not singing friendly music. that’s not a diss on any particular genre (except for edm fuck edm, everyone who makes dance remixes should have their music liscences revoked), because in isolation every genre is fine, but then you take it all together, and there’s a lack of the group singing, safe for bad singers, simple to play, music as a wider genre.

when did we stop singing lullabies? i mean i assume we still sing them to children, but how many do you know? how long has it been since a song like you are my sunshine has been popular? *caveat that i don’t listen to the radio, but if you have a counter example, make sure you think about how long it is and how large the range is and how complicated the rhythm is, etc., because that all is part of it.

at the camp i used to go to, we would sing bohemian rhapsody walking down the hill to the waterfront. someone would start it, and those interested get to join in sometime around “easy come easy go", but then you get to a guitar solo, and the thing kind of fizzles without a backing track.

and that’s what i mean, i mean people keep singing together, and wouldn’t it be better if more people made music that was meant to be sung? i mean sure you can gather your friends and sing anything, but will it resonate in the same way “what do you do with a drunken sailor?” would? will everyone be able to sing it, will it sound okay if you sing it badly? why did we stop making music that sounded best when we sing it the way we always have? why did we stop listening to it?

anyway i don’t have a deep take on this except like folk music is really good, and traditional songs exist for a reason. since i’ve focused really heavily on america and gaelic tradition, because that’s what i listend to growing up, and therefore can speak about in a qualitative sense, i would like to just leave this south african lullaby here, because my mom used to sing it to me, so it’s got a real soft spot in my heart. i didn’t really talk about lullabies because again comp sci assignment but they’re related, so anyway, this has an english translation in there which may or may not be the standard? but you can know what it means too:

[kingofthewilderwest]

"#just because you have a bias about certain socioeconomic groups which tend to listen to country doesn't mean" // Yup. I tend to side-eye folks who are like "I like all kinds of music except country and [Insert a genre of music usually associated with Black creators like rap and hip hop]" You're not slick, ppl. I know what you're saying.

^^^^^^^^^ You hit the nail on the head.

It’s racial bias. It’s socioeconomic bias. It’s bias against people groups who have less respect and say in society.

From my tags on this post:

#don’t get me started on a long rant of the progressive side of country music and what’s been progressive FOR DECADES#from times near its BEGINNInGS#through the modern age#just because you have a bias about certain socioeconomic groups which tend to listen to country doesn’t mean#that that’s actually what the genre is or who the artists are#I could go for a LONNNNG time about this#a LONG time#some of the best protest songs I know of today’s current political situation#are country#or have like ya’ll forgotten about the folk revival#of the 1960s#or…#gahghfnfddhgnghfngh#I AM GAY AND I LISTEN TO COUNTRY#NYEH!!!!

Now. I understand disinterest in a genre because it’s not your aesthetic, but when people express their feelings for country, R&B, hip-hop, etc. …the dialogue isn’t casual “It’s not my thing.” The dialogue is a hateful, passionate retaliation.

Other genres aren’t treated like this. It’s normalized and encouraged to hate on country and rap. These genres are systematically treated with less respect and that disrespect culturally arose because these genres are associated with less-respected demographics. 

(Country music is associated with people of low socioeconomic status, for people who aren’t explicitly aware.)

Anecdotally: I’ve caught something interesting about anti-country music sentiment. Many people tell me they can’t stand the “twang.” Half the time, I’ve noticed that their internalized definition of “twang” isn’t the vocal technique; it’s that they can’t stand the presence of a Southern accent. And hooboy does that have TONS of sociocultural bias issues. As a linguist, I’ve read endless sociolinguistic studies about how Southern dialects are treated as “lesser,” and how speakers of the dialect are automatically judged to be less intelligent, etc. It’s not good, folks.

Sometimes, to help friends get out of their anti-country mindset, I’ve “tricked” them into liking country. See, genres like bluegrass grew closely out of Scots-Irish folk music. Often, we’re playing the same tunes on both sides of the Atlantic. So I play a few instrumentals, my friend goes, “Oh! I love Celtic music

The biases against those demographics color how people view the music. There’s endless things that can be said about hip-hop bias, holy shit. I won’t focus on that today because I don’t believe I am qualified to be a spokesman. Someone who understands that genre better, and other genres associated with the African-American community, and is African-American, would be a better human to listen to than me. I defer to their knowledge and experience. It’s hella important to understand what bias has been reflected against those genres.

But there’s just as much bias against country music, against another demographic. And I’ve found it wild how it gets treated on places like tumblr, which wants to stand up for underprivileged groups, but somewhat inaccurately associates country music as “anti-gay conservative evil white person music” rather than music of people historically of lower socioeconomic status.

Yes, some of the demographic that listens to country music or plays country music are bad apples. But like… thinking the music is JUST THAT is a huge disservice to what country actually is and who the music artists actually are.

The history of country music is one giant collaborative melting pot of people from many different cultural backgrounds. Broad West African influence. Mexican influence. Italian influence. German influence. Scots-Irish influence. Cherokee influence. More. Early record labels like OKEH foolishly separated “hillbilly music” (presumably white folk music) from “rhythm and blues” (presumably Black folk music) without understanding the constant racial, demographic, regional, and cultural cross-pollination that occurred between the musicians from country music’s origins. And while there ARE certain issues in country music’s past and present, and we can’t let those issues go forgotten, that’s far from the whole story. We shouldn’t romanticize issues, but we should acknowledge that this music genre has given us major strides too.

Country music is the banjo, brought from Africa, combined with the mandolin, brought from Italy, combined with the fiddle, brought from Ireland, combined with the guitar and the dobro and the accordion and the upright bass and the electric guitar and the electric bass and whatever instruments you want to put in there.

Country music is African-American musicians like DeFord Bailey, the first radio star ever introduced on the Grand Ole Opry (THE most revered country music hub out there), blues harmonica performer, playing to crowds decades before segregation was de-legalized. He toured with white Opry musicians who treated him as one of their own. It’s soul music genre pioneer Ray Charles producing a studio album entirely dedicated to country music hits like “Hey Good Lookin’” from Hank Williams. It’s country star Charley Pride, who despite the racism against him in the 1960s rose to fame and made audiences fall in love with his beautiful voice. It’s the African-American musicians who inspired many commercial country stars, like Arnold Shultz influencing Bill Monroe and the railroad workers inspiring Jimmie Rodgers.

Country music is stars like Johnny Rodriguez and Rick Treviño, singing country music in Spanish, and using obvious Latin flavors in the genre.

Country music is filled with badass women like the ladies who STARTED THE GENRE ROLLING IN THE FIRST PLACE, Sara Carter and Mother Maybelle Carter (whose guitar style is hugely influential to this day) and Maybelle’s daughters Helen, June, and Anita; the first female music manager in the music industry, Louise Scruggs; songwriters like Felice Bryant and Loretta Lynn; the most awarded female artist in Grammy history Alison Krauss; and powerhouses like Dolly Parton who stepped out of an over-controlling entertainer’s shadow to become a badass in all things like supporting the LGBTQ community, contributing to pro-transgender films ahead of their time, and starring in sex worker positive productions like “The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas.”

Country music is filled with activism. Johnny Cash showed a heart for those forgotten by society. He toured many times in prisons. Cash especially was an activist for Native American rights. He toured with Native American songwriters so audiences could hear their own words (I’ve been trying to find names but I’m having difficulties re-finding that information, so my apologies for not giving names of those who deserve to be mentioned). Cash released albums dedicated to exposing past and present injustices against the Native American people. He went on tours specifically to Native American reservations. 

And it’s not just Johnny Cash!

Country music is many stars from the Grand Ole Opry banding together to release AIDS benefit albums - big names like Alison Krauss, Willie Nelson, Marty Stuart, aurgh I’m too lazy to write them all, PEOPLE.

Country music is Earl Scruggs and his sons playing at the Vietnam War Protests.

Country music is tied in with the fucking folk revival of the 1960s, which was deep in left-wing activism and the Civil Rights Movement. Folk singers sang traditional Appalachian and English ballads alongside their own compositions, topical pieces protesting the current political situation. You can call one artist “folk” or “Americana” and another one “country,” but the influences were intermingling, and it’s why we have Bob Dylan and Woody Guthrie and Joan Baez and John Denver and Pete Seeger owning a banjo that says, “This machine surrounds hate and forces it to surrender.”

Dammit, I have a full BOOK that discusses country music and political ties. 

There’s another book out there, which I haven’t read, that discusses the relationship between country music and the queer community, and how bias against country music is NOT as reflective of the listening demographic as we stereotype. I’ll take the word of one reviewer who said:

[Nadine Hubbs] explores country music lyrics, presenting a great deal of evidence suggesting that working class America is not inherently homophobic, but that as middle class cultural taste has changed to include formal acceptance of homosexuality, this process has included pinning homophobic ideas on the working class.

Country music is lyrics like this 1975 controversial song “The Pill”:

You wined me and dined meWhen I was your girlPromised if I’d be your wifeYou’d show me the worldBut all I’ve seen of this old worldIs a bed and a doctor billI’m tearing down your brooder house‘Cause now I’ve got the pillAll these years I’ve stayed at homeWhile you had all your funAnd every year that’s gone byAnother baby’s comeThere’s a-gonna be some changes madeRight here on nursery hillYou’ve set this chicken your last time‘Cause now I’ve got the pill

Country music is lyrics like this 2013 song that feels as relevant than ever:

If crooks are in charge, should we let them pick our pockets?If we don’t want trouble, should we not try to stop it?We could just sink into the quicksand slavery we’re born inBut fighting endless wars for greedy liars is getting pretty boringThey think they got us trained, so we’ll think we’re living freeIf we got time and money for junk food and TVBut it’s plain honest people never stand a chance of winning electionsThey just let us pick which liars take our rights away for our own protectionThe corporate propaganda paralyzes us with fearDestroying our ability to trustFear keeps us fighting with each other over scrapsStarving to death in the dustOrganized religion really helps you submitBut the meek are inheriting the short end of the stickFear surrounds compassion like a layer of moldAnd weakens our defenses so we’re too weak to be boldLife could be heaven, but this corrupted systemTakes away our rights, expects us not to miss themThe middle class is shrinking while the lower class growsIf we don’t wake up soon, we’ll have no class left to lose

Country music is Christians themselves criticizing the hypocritical Evangelical culture in the USA for the bullshit hatefulness stewing inside it:

Every house has got a Bible and a loaded gunWe got preachers and politicians‘Round here it’s kinda hard to tell which oneIs gonna do more talkin’ with a crooked tongue

And as that one post I just reblogged shows, there’s MANY queer country musicians out there producing explicitly pro-LGBTQ+ music.

I’m brushing over so much. I’m sorry for the simplification that goes with me doing such a pass-by overview. I’m sorry I’m focusing more on history than the present (I know more about the 1920s-1960s eras, so I’m talking from my strong suit). I hope the information is at least strong enough to get my point across.

There are definitely listeners and artists in country music who are uber-conservative white hateful Christians. Yes. I know why country music gets associated with that. But.

Country music is not ABOUT this uber-conservative white hateful Christian side. The genre is not “polluted”. It is a thousand voices from a thousand perspectives of people from many backgrounds and beliefs. And many of those thousand voices are old traditional songs that came from Black communities, or were composed by Mexican-Americans, or were performed by folk artists as part of a protest for equal rights. 

(Note: I’m *NOT* saying all Christians are bad or that different political angles don’t have merits. I’m Christian myself! And you don’t know my political party. I’m just trying to get the point across that country music isn’t ENTRENCHED in one questionable demographic.)

You don’t have to like country music. It doesn’t have to be your aesthetic. But if you find it fun to get in on society’s popular country hate roasting… please rethink this. The reason country music has been hated from its roots is because it’s associated with the socioeconomically disadvantaged.

I’m with you 100%, Ashley. When someone says they like all genres “except country music and rap,” I get a little leery. I used to be one of those people when I was younger. I had to learn to grow past those biases. But once I did, I realized there was so much I was hating on that I didn’t understand. Now, I hope I can help people overcome their own biases, such as ones they don’t realize they’ve had - for things like music.

Hi ya’lls. I’m queer and I love country.

P.S. If anyone has anything to add or correct, please feel free to add on! I’m doing my best but I do not know everything and would be happy to learn more, too!

[enchantred]

folklore reactions

the 1: i totally called the tone of this album. I also love how all the album is in lowercase. this is such a sweet song! melancholy but beautiful. however, joe???? is she good? are they good? um hello I need to do some research about who this is about bc its beautiful but also sad. God I love Taylor Swift. She truly is the greatest songwriter of this century. 

cardigan: I’m really excited about this one tbh. nice into? YESS LANA VIBES. dark edgy rep mood and im here. how is this album already better than lover? also is she okay again? like i need to know about my girl. if this album doesnt win a grammy im going to riot. I love how poetic this album is. I didn’t really understand the black and white but I think I understand it now. 

the last great american dynasty: from the title im hoping also lana vibes but lets see. okay halsey 929 vibes in the beginning.  love the storytelling. I love this album so far. is this about the kennedys? is this about her past relationships? wait it totally is! marvelous? rhode island? or wait this is tiwwchnt? is this a reflection on her friendships? i’m so curious. Love the background instrumentals. wait no i’m wrong this is about her house? or the lucky one? i too had a marvelous time ruining everything also this is a mood

exile: I’m not the biggest fan of bon iver so i’m not too excited about this one, but i’m open to it, I guess. This is very The Last Time of her and I love that song so. oh no sad again. you were my crown now im in exile! no no please taylor be happy im going to straight up cry. I really hope she’s doing okay, but this song is beautiful. okay some quick research and taylor and joe are still together and apparantly he wrote things which makes sense 

my tears ricochet: very its nice to have a friend of her. okay i def hear the jack antonoff in this song. another sad song. :(  Wait yes here comes the orchestra why is this speak now x 1989? im here for this part of the song for sure.  florence inspo for sure.  

mirrorball: wait this is very fearless era is it not lmao? like the vocals are floaty and seem younger. okay this is sweet. yes begin again vibes I love it!!! yes empowerment and happiness!!!!! this is my favorite so far. This is what Me! wishes it was. hush! this is so relaxing. tbh i did think she said “im still on my toilet” instead of “tallest” so lets see if anyone else makes this mistake.  wait THIS IS THE LUCKY ONE PART 2. beautiful 10/10

seven: this is about the lover album going to call it. okay why does this literally not sound like her at all? wait im so wrong. like this is fairies in the field and she sounds like an irish folk singer from the 90s. this is cute. cottagecore lesbians on tiktok are going to use this sound for sure lmao. who does she sound like? ok i am not a fan of this song just going to put that out here now its kinda boring. 

august: if theres not an upbeat song on this album i will freak out. ugh another slow song. wait this is happy! yay! very beautiful kiss for him. why do i get like past romance vibes from this? (tom????) we love yearning. cruel summer who?also fearless vibes from this too.

this is me trying: based on the title im worried again? i almost do who???? I got wasted like all my potential ugh mood. why can’t she have the album booklet secret sentences again i sure hope she does omg. call it what you want also. 

ilicit affairs: now this has got to be about the getaway car triangle. can i be right about one thing. yearning again, but nice this time too. HIM! this is very red era and I don’t know how to feel about it. treacherous inspired this for sure. okay this is my favorite because its lowkey a diss track. dear john vibes also!

invisible string: never grow up vibes. however, I still need to know if taylor is okay like genuinely because i’m scared lmao. I hate it when people are sad esp her and like her albums define my life a bit so if shes sad im sad? bad blood lmao. aww time heals everything, this is so cute i sure hope shes happy. we love a self referencing queen. 

mad woman: the man part 2? oooh swear words. is this about k*nye? is this about k*m? wanting me dead has really brought you too together? who else? ive got to find some fan theories omg

epiphany: the 1975 vibes? i swear if this is instrumental.. okay why does this sound like a small british child singing in choir. its really beautiful though, no insult meant I just don’t really listen to music like this ever. its not really my aesthetic but I can appreciate it. 

betty: my friend freaked out about this song so from her reaction its got to be either confirmation of Kaylor/taylor being gay, the song is some weird genre thats not taylor, shes pregnant, or just really deep lyrics that hit differently? lets see. wait COUNTRY TIME? YO. oh no what did she did to betty? wait i feel uncomf. whats abigails opinion on this i need to know, were they friends? yikes friend breakup i’ve been there. is this from someone else’s perspective i gotta know. yay she goes to the party!!! wait what cardigan? whats happening im so ??

peace: interesting......this is beachy I love it? its nice to have a friend vibes again. she sounds like.. not herself? this is so different from everything she’s done before I need to sit with it and listen to it before i understand. clowns to the west. her voice sounds so beautiful here and so mature? i honestly was ready for this era after rep but not right now? idk how I feel about it. 

hoax: not s single upbeat song :(((((. faithless love??? not cute. is she going to perform any of these live i cant really imagine it. new york? aw no she’s sad my baby girl. hmm. don’t like this one. the vibes are great but I just dont like them.