#the garden of eden is one of those bible stories where i think god was the actual cause of humanity's fall

[demidoodlefox]

Hell hath no fury... like the queen of hell's rage.

>>>><<<<

Wanted to do some of that crazy eye stuff and this idea popped up. What if, while disobedience was the reason, the cause of all hell breaking loose was heaven going torches and pitchforks, and Lucifer breaking apart over it?

Basically like the Mastermind trial, or Emily and Charlie's call out duet... but it ended horrifically. Creation's first witch trial/witch hunt

You know that trope where a hard-ass guy does all sorts of bad-assery to protect/avenge/rescue a loved one? that's how I want Lilith to be. Lilith 'rage against the heavens' Morningstar will do whatever it takes to protect her family and her new home.

She went back to help Eve out of that forced marriage she'd escaped from. She could do nothing but watch as the one angel who treated earthborns with respect got torn apart. Never again.

She's just as traumatized as Lucifer. But if Lucifer went down the path of despair, Lilith is down the path of fury. Fierce independence becomes raging overprotective defiance.

She's the one who nurtured and led hell's society while Lucifer's the power that enforced it. Hell defers more to Lucifer, but Lucifer defers to Lilith.

[freyjas-musings]

Hi! I sent in an ask a while ago on how I think Gwyn might be a descendant of Oleanna, and came up with the headcanon of Oleanna visiting Gwyn in her dreams like Elena did with Aelin!

To me, Gwyn and Azriel have religious imagery/symbolism. I know that you have a theory on Gwyn & Azriel being the reincarnations of Oleanna & Enyalius (which is also interesting to me), so I just wanted to share some things that I discovered after doing some research!

This post https://www.tumblr.com/mystical-blaise/663854476621479936/berdara-meaning stood out to me.

The name Gwyn mean fair, white, blessed, and holy. The name Gwyneth means happiness.

Gwynedd means white, fair, blessed, pure.

Apparently Gwyneth also refers to Virgin. Her full name can translate to bleeding virgin.

The name Gwenivere is derived from the Welsh words gwen and hwyfar, which mean “white or fair” and “ghost or phantom” respectively. The name therefore means “white ghost” or “white phantom”.

In Malay, Berdarah means bleeding, bloodied, bled, bloody. Berdara in Malay is also virgin.

Sangrava (Sangravah) means used to bleed in Portuguese.

@yazthebookish posted on her Instagram story how it’s interesting that Gwyn wanted to name her sword Silver Majesty and the sword Gwydion kind of ties in both and it could maybe be an easter egg. “Silver: it’s dark blade emits what was described as a holy, savior’s light and that also connects Gwyn’s holy status as a priestess and the light emits when singing. Majesty: it belonged to a High King whose name is also the Irish equivalent to Gwyn (= Fionn). Gwydion: in Celtic mythology is a trickster/magician from the Kingdom of Gwynedd, which the name Gwyneth is derived from.”

Gwynriel’s have come up with theories about Gwyn and Gwydion after ACOSF, and how she might wield the sword. I’ve also seen theories on how she might be the one to find Narben.

In Medieval Christian theology places seraphim in the highest choir of the angelic hierarchy. They are the caretakers of God's throne, continuously singing "holy, holy, holy".

In the Book of Isaiah (Isaiah 6:1-8) used the term to describe six-winged beings that fly around the Throne of God crying “holy, holy, holy”.

In the Bible in Luke 2:13-21 it says: “Suddenly a great army of heaven’s angels appeared with the angel, singing praises to God: ‘Glory to God in the highest heaven, and peace on earth to those with whom he is pleased!’”

I wonder, have some people ever stopped to think that maybe the reason why Gwyn glows when she’s singing is because it’s something holy and pure, not because she’s “evil”? Even if Gwyn does turn out to be a lightsinger, SJM will not make her a villain, and it would make her an equal to Azriel (she already is). It would be another parallel between her and Azriel, which they already have multiple parallels.

The name Azriel means God is my help.

In Islamic and Christian traditions, Azrael is the name of the angel of death, one of the four archangels; the angel of death who separates souls from their bodies. Apparently he proved to be the only angel brave enough to go down to Earth and face the hordes of Iblīs, the devil, in order to bring God the materials needed to make man. Fun fact: Azrael’s attributes are wings and a cloak. (Azriel wrapped Gwyn in his cloak when saving her.)

Ramiel means thunder of God. We know that Ramiel is important, it is Illyria’s sacred mountain, it is regarded as the holy mountain of the Night Court. Where the warriors are when the Blood Rite ends sorts them into one of the three echelons of warrior, name after their holy stars. One of the seven archangels listed in the Book of Enoch, Ramiel is considered to be the angel of hope, guiding faithful souls to heaven and watching over those who will be resurrected. Throughout the New Testament, Jesus is associated with mountains. Mountains are mentioned more than 500 times in the Bible. The Garden of Eden was believed to have been on a mountain. Mountains have a logical religious symbolism for Jewish and Christian cultures since they are “closer to God” who dwells in the heavens (as in the sky). As a result, God often reveals himself on a mountaintop in the text. In the Old Testament, the mountains of Sinai and Zion are most significant.

The name Oleanna means light. Didn’t Oleanna, a high priestess, create Gwydion and gave it its powers when she dipped it into the Cauldron?

In Greek mythology Enyalius is generally the son of Ares by Enyo. Enyalius is often seen as the God of soldiers and warriors from Ares cult.

All of this just seemed really interesting to me. SJM minored in religious studies, so it’s possible she is well aware of some of this or has done some research. There is a lot of religious symbolism and imagery when it comes to Gwyn. No one is ���stealing” the religious aesthetic from E/riel’s. Gwyn and Azriel as characters themselves have religious imagery. Gwynriel as a ship has religious symbolism. It wouldn’t surprise me if SJM played into this and I really hope she does. The saint and the sinner. I’ve thought for a while now about making edits of Gwyn and Gwynriel that are religious themed, but I’m scared of E/riel’s saying that I’m stealing their aesthetic, since they’ve accused Gwynriel’s of stealing the light and dark aesthetic. But Gwynriel does actually have a light and dark aesthetic, and E/riel’s use the Hades & Persephone thing despite it being Feysand’s.

Hi Anon,

Everything you have written is interesting and I would love to take my time and explore every single point you made ...

Its all very interesting and I could see Oleanna and Gwyn having a connection similar Enalius and Az ....

Illyrians were made and the leathery wings indicate they were an experiments with creatures from the hel realm ....Now cut to Gwyn who was conceived by a priestess on the holy night of the great rite... it will almost be poetic if Az wields a weapon made from dark power and Gwyn ends up weilding a weapon made from holy power the warrior mates who are also Carynthians.

So Gwyn and Az have the whole holy unholy aesthetic going for them .... saint and the sinner .... carynthian warriors ... and yes Light and dark too.

Light and dark is such a common aesthetic.... it is also a Feysand aesthetic, Ruhn Lidia aesthetic ✨️... you cant gatekeep such a generic aesthetic.

Their book my friend will win hearts and be an absolute masterpiece .

I am very curious as to what Gwyns power is .... being Azriel's mate it would need to be something equally unique and powerful and yes I do believe her power will be something Holy ... she already has the invoking stone that she channels the mother's power from but even apart from that I believe her glow could be something holy ✨️

[dailydemonspotlight]

dude i fucking love your series so much, every time you post i get so excited i love learning even more about the demons in smt rahhhhh. anyways can you do lilith? i love like loveeeee her new design in vengeance and think she looks so cool :3.

Lilith - Day 76

Race: Night/Qadištu

Arcana: Devil

Alignment: Neutral-Chaos

July 22nd, 2024

Abrahamic mythology has a lot of rather infamous figures who lay on the more... 'evil' side of things, so to speak. Of course, we have demons like none other than Lucifer himself, to the demons of the Ars Goetia, to even more morally gray figures like Mastema. However, a character that is among the most interesting (and confusing) in the several variations of Abrahamic myth has to be Adam's first wife, a woman who refused to be subservient to her husband- the powerful turned-demon, Lilith.

First off, I just wanna say that I ADORE her redesign as a Qadištu in Vengeance. As someone who just started playing Vengeance for the first time, I love all of the Qadištu almost equally, but Lilith's redesign hits incredibly hard for someone who was already a massive fan of her original design. Her joining this quartet of demonesses is an incredibly nice idea, and I'm, again, a major fan of her redesign. Even though all of the Qadištu originate from Abrahamic mythology, Lilith is a notably obvious example, though of course, this isn't the only design she's had throughout the series. She's had several redesigns, being one of the most recurring demons throughout the series- whether it be her full tits-out design in SMT I, to the most recurring design, her classic look originating from the Playstation port of SMT I, to even her incredibly alien design in SMT IV. Of course, like a lot of recurring demons, she's also one of the most iconic figures in Abrahamic mythology, so why don't we get into that?

Lilith's existence is somewhat contested in scholarly circles, being never actually mentioned in most translations of the Bible- in the original text, Lilith is used as a word for 'creature of the night,' literally translated to 'Night Monster,' though some translations also translate it as screech owl. Most knowledge of her as Adam's first wife appears to be based on extrapolations, as well as what can be seen almost as a plot hole in the Book of Genesis, as two differing creation myths seem to connect back to the idea that there was an 'Eve before Eve,' or 'first Eve.' In the story, while God was presenting animals to Adam, it's said that he may have presented another human to him due to contradictory accounts of the biblical text. This seems to be where Lilith comes into the Bible, being commonly believed to be a woman who refused to submit to Adam, and as such, left the Garden of Eden after failing to satisfy Adam and believing herself to be equal to him. This led to Eve coming into being, a subservient being to Adam. Don't look at me, sexism was just... a thing back in the day.

After her escape, Lilith bore several children, though she was threatened by an angel that they would kill those children. After said children were, well, slaughtered, she grew furious and began to birth demon children known as Lilim... who probably deserve their own spotlight somewhere down the line. It turns out that the demons who began to replace her children were powerful enough to go toe-to-toe with the angels, and joined the demonic ranks somewhere down the line... I think. As revenge on top of this, Lilith also began to ruthlessly target children, apparently being responsible for stillbirths, and if one wasn't to circumcise their child if they were born a boy, she would invoke her wrath unto them as well. How? I dunno! But I guess that's why people are circumcised. How do these always eventually come back to screwing with the genitals? Whatever.

However, where Lilith herself came from is actually an ancient Sumerian text, where she's depicted as a succubus and demoness who first appears in the text 'Gilgamesh and the Huluppu Tree.' In the text, she appears as a demon who builds a house in the domain of a goddess of eroticism, right under the titular Huluppu tree. Gilgamesh, a grand hero depicted in many Abrahamic texts, appears and strikes down the house and Lilith herself for sullying the garden. This story paints her as a sort-of symbol of feminine rebellion, something which would be convenient and easy to extrapolate into being Adam's first wife. Given the connections between Sumer and most Abrahamic religions, it was easy to see the purported first wife of Adam before Eve being, well, Lilith! Recently, the few sources we have on Lilith, however, have been heavily disputed, but as one of the only origins I can work off of, I have to take what I can get.

Her scant references as 'Lilit' in the original Hebrew bible seem to have been what gave her life in the extrapolations, as even though she was referred to exactly once, her role in Sumerian mythology seemed to make a perfect connection to make her into Adam's first wife. Another source we can work off of for Lilith, past the Mesopotamian text, however, is that of an indisputable reference to her in none other than the Dead Sea Scrolls, being as follows.

And I, the Instructor, proclaim His glorious splendour so as to frighten and to te[rrify] all the spirits of the destroying angels, spirits of the bastards, demons, Lilith, howlers, and [desert dwellers] ... and those which fall upon men without warning to lead them astray from a spirit of understanding and to make their heart and their ... desolate during the present dominion of wickedness and predetermined time of humiliations for the sons of lig[ht], by the guilt of the ages of [those] smitten by iniquity – not for eternal destruction, [bu]t for an era of humiliation for transgression.

This does seem to show that Lilith is a part of Abrahamic mythology, though some sources, such as several Rabbi, claim her not to be. It's a very complicated topic overall, as almost everything around Lilith tends to be- her murky stories seem to be based primarily off of educated guesses, unfortunately. However, with her being mentioned in one of the oldest surviving sources for Biblical study, she does appear to be, well, around, so to speak. While still vague and obscure, she's definitely a force that appears to exist.

Now, with all of that out of the way, her depictions in SMT are incredibly varied, but I'd like to specifically point to her in SMT IV, being a tempter who brings Walter to her side. A lot more can be said of her depictions, but this DDS is growing rather long, so I'll have to cut it short. However, given her calling to Flynn and Walter to partake in the apple of knowledge, I love the allusion she gives to her role as Adam's first wife, and perhaps even being the tempter of Adam himself to eat the apple.

[nepentheisms]

SPOILERS AHEAD for the end of Trimax. I know bookclub still has a few weeks left to get there, but @pepplemint put down some thoughts I really liked (linked below, their post includes the spoilers that I'm reflecting on). I was originally going to just reblog with comments I wanted to add, but then this post wound up way longer than I expected.

Anyways, for op, I think this essay may be of interest to you with its discussion of the final few chapters; especially this bit where the writer quotes the late Thich Nhat Hanh:

Though the Bible values understanding, it prioritizes love above all. Jesus encourages his followers to love thy neighbor, no matter what, whether or not there is understanding. Alternately, in Living Buddha, Living Christ, Thich Nhat Hanh writes that “In Buddhism, understanding (prajña) is essential to love (maitri). Without understanding there cannot be true love, and without love there cannot be true understanding.” Perhaps the finale of Trigun Maximum is a blending of these two philosophies.

For me personally, the use of the Genesis allusions in the resolution of the story and the way that plants and humans switch around in acting as the god figure in relation to one another have stirred up thoughts about how there's more of a push and pull in God's relationship with humanity in the Tanakh or Hebrew Bible (which has the same books as the Protestant Old Testament but they're arranged differently).

My knowledge of Judaism is pretty basic, so I'd love to hear from someone who can provide more perspective, but from what I do know, the Jewish approach to God differs from the Christian approach in that adherents are encouraged to question God (even the very existence of God is up for questioning). In Christianity, God is characterized as an all-powerful perfect being humans have to obey, but this characterization really involves a lot of retconning of the Jewish source material, because in those stories, God is not necessarily omnipotent or omnibenevolent.

In Genesis 3:22-23, God seems to express concern over the possibility of humans rivaling him. From the NRSV translation:

(22) And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”  (23) So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 

But even with the banishment from the Garden of Eden and the whole Tower of Babel episode in which God voices his qualms about humanity becoming too powerful, God also has moments in which he welcomes it when people challenge him. Genesis 32:24-32 is the story of Jacob wrestling with God and insisting "I will not let you go unless you bless me," and he gets his blessing. And it's in these verses that we get an explanation for the meaning of the name Israel - "The one who strives with God" (from the notes of The New Oxford Annotated Bible).

And what is Trigun but a story of striving between creator and creation? There's plenty of contentious striving, full of pain and conflict, but there's also the striving for understanding - a struggle to truly KNOW the other so that together, they may have a chance at building a more mutually beneficial future.

TLDR: I think the relationship of mutual contention between God and mankind as seen in the Hebrew Bible is a better analogy for the humans vs plants conflict than the Christian view of original sin cutting people off from a perfect supreme authority.

[laviechristcentered]

God’s Design…

Hello ! Long time no see, I know; I guess I haven’t been inspired enough to write anything for a while, but I’m back ! (for now) 

What I’m about to write/say may be controversial, and hated but I felt compelled to put it out there.

It all starts with THE question that most non believers will ask Christians.

“If God exists, then why does he let such disastrous events happen to the world, to humans ?”

First of all, that question is SO contradictory because they don’t believe in God but they blame everything wrong in the world upon him; or his control.

Second, my answers to the problems of the world are two words :  God’s design. 

In the book of Romans, Paul clearly says that God’s existence is visible/tangible through his creations;

Imagine someone looking at a perfectly made work of art, where every detail has been crafted so precisely, and on purpose, that it couldn’t have created itself, but still thinking it was there by luck. That to me, is the reaction of a non believer. 

And because he doesn’t believe, he will reject the creator and his design.

The result of that rejection is exactly the world we’re living in right now. A scary one, where right is made wrong, and wrong is made right. 

And doesn’t the word of God say in Isaiah 55.8 : “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways, my ways…”

Everything is distorted, because we rejected The Creator’s design for humanity, for this earth, for our lives in general. 

It all comes down to the garden of eden and the first sin. It was one moment that changed the course of the entire creation. 

Because of that sin, all creation was cursed to condemnation. Because of that sin, we were separated from God. 

The story of the Bible tells the story of the God of eternity reaching out time and time again to humans in order to bridge the gap, and repair that relationship. 

Isn’t that the ultimate love story? When we are unfaithful, He is faithful. When we change time and time again, he remains the same.

What he says, promises or vows to do, He does.

God’s original design didn’t include sin, curse and condemnation. That’s why he sent Jesus to die on the cross for our sins. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice; and in his resurrection, lies our very own victory from sin. That moment was not for him, but for US sinners who were slaves of sin. Jesus never needed victory over the world. He is God ! Therefore he already won over the world. THAT resurrection REVERSED the curse we received from Adam and eve’s sin.

Those who believe in Jesus Christ, shall have eternal life. An eternal life where everything will be renewed.

Those who believe in him,  will live according to his design for their life. They’ll live according to his will, which they find in the Bible.

True believers DO NOT question God’s design for humanity, the earth and life in general because they know they’re not the creators of their own lives. Just like a painting never questions its painter. 

We trust the real designer in every aspect of our lives and completely rely on him and on his guidance.

I want to end this post, by inviting you to talk to the Lord about anything and everything that’s going on in your life. Open your heart to him as your creator, and your heavenly father who wants to hear about you. Your joys, victory, worries, sorrow, loneliness. Seek him with all your heart, and he shall answer you and guide you wherever you need to go. Embrace His design for your life, and you will see his glory.

I hope that helped. God bless you all and have a great day.

[question-why-not]

A couple examples:

There is no such thing as heaven & hell in mainstream Judaism. Nil. Nada. The garden of eden is just a creation story about how the world was made & why is there hardship in life, not at all related to the afterlife. You don’t even think that much about the afterlife in Judaism even, maybe some Jewish rabbi & other scholars do, but the average Jew really doesn’t. Judaism as a religion is much more focused about this life than any notion of “the next”.

There is no such thing as the Christian Satan in Judaism. “Satan” is just a verb meaning “hostile”. The Hebrew bible uses the word “satan” as “x satan to y”, meaning x is being hostile to y. The only time a character called “Satan” is actually mentioned is in the story of Job, and in that story it’s literally just someone god sent to travel the earth & report back on everything bad in it. And it’s an allegorical tool just meant to drive the plot of that one story, never mentioned before and never mentioned again. As such, there are no Satan or demons or tempters who try to get you to do evil. It’s just you. We have the capacity to do both good & evil, and we have both urges to do good & urges to do evil. The urge to do evil is referred to as just that - יצר הרע, meaning “the urge [to do] evil”. It’s something internal to all of us in Judaism, same as the urge to do good.

There is no such thing as “original sin” in Judaism, nor is sin at all a central part of Judaism. We have, like, one (1) day a year dedicated to contemplating your wrongdoings, it’s called Yom Kippur, meaning “day of atoning”. It’s a very spiritual day where you fast & contemplate\meditate on all the wrongs you’ve done others in the past year, and try to better yourself so you don’t repeat those actions next year. It’s also a day where you seek out people you’ve wronged and ask for forgiveness. And… That’s pretty much it. You don’t really consider “sin” in Judaism, you consider מצוות (mitzvot), which in literal translation would be “commandments”, however they shouldn’t be confused with the “10 commandments”. Mitzvot are basically “things you should do to lead a good Jewish life”, including everything from keeping Kosher to helping others. To be clear, being a good & compassionate person to your fellow human beings is far more highly prioritized in Judaism than following specific written mitzvot or being pious.

Follow up on “no original sin” - the “tree of knowledge” is actually called “the tree of knowledge [of] good & evil”. The idea being, that after eating the fruit, humans didn’t just gain “knowledge”, we specifically gained the innate ability to distinguish between good acts & evil acts, and the Hebrew bible explicitly states that that ability is a divine quality we now all possess. Note, this doesn’t specify any specific ethical system or rules, it explicitly talks of our innate ability to understand if an action is good or bad. And yes, humanity was punished for eating the fruit of knowledge of good & evil, and that’s according to Judaism why we have hardship in life instead of an idyllic garden of eden, but that doesn’t extend to any idea of “original sin” or to say we’re all inherently sinful creatures or anything of the sort.

Whatever the duck Christians made with a whole zoology of “angels of god”??? That is just Not A Thing in Judaism. The word “angel” just means “messenger”. You can have messengers of god, yes. They aren’t human, they’re Something™️, yes. (They will appear human at first, though, usually until they choose to tell you that they’re sending you a message from god). Does the Hebrew bible go into any details about them? No. Can “angels” also just be some rando’s messengers? Yes, the word “angel” literally just means “messenger”.

I can’t believe I have to say it, but JESUS IS NOT A THING IN JUDAISM. I’m still utterly baffled how that is a difficult concept to many Christians I’ve encountered. Jesus isn’t a figure in Judaism, exactly like how Muhammad isn’t a figure in Christianity. I’ll reiterate, JESUS IS NOT AT ALL A FIGURE IN JUDAISM, LET ALONE A FIGURE OF ANY RELIGIOUS IMPORTANCE. Jesus is completely absent from Judaism. There is no mention of him, no such concept as a “son of god”. Nil. Nada.

The Hebrew bible isn’t even called “bible” or “testament”, it’s called the תנ״ך (“Tanah”). It’s a shorthand for “Torah, Prophets, Writtens”, which are the 3 parts of it.

That’s all i can think of right now, there’s probably a bunch more. Toodles!

If you're trying to unpack and heal from Christian religious trauma, a thing you really need to understand (if you don't already) is that you were probably misled about Judaism a lot. Christianity generally tries to paint itself as the self-evident successor of Judaism, and one of the ways it does this is by painting Judaism as Christianity Without Jesus.

In reality, Judaism is practiced very differently from Christianity, and Jews have a very different relationship to their Bible than Christians have to theirs. Just about everything you'll hear about Judaism from Christians is total hogwash - literally, it's Christian propaganda. Christianity as most of us know it was shaped by the Roman Empire's political agendas, and that's a huge reason why it's the way it is.

[christian-perspectives]

No Eye Has Seen, No Ear Has Heard

"That is what the Scriptures mean when they say, "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him." 1 Corinthians 2:9 In 1 Corinthians 2, the Apostle Paul referred to a portion of Isaiah's writing. He talked about how the mountains quaked when the Lord came down to the earth. He continued by saying, For since the world began, no ear has heard and no eye has seen a God like you, who works for those who wait for him! Isaiah 64:4 No matter where God goes, His glory goes before Him. Try to imagine the surroundings in the Garden of Eden when God and Adam walked together in the evenings. One day Jesus led Peter, James, and John to the top of a high mountain to be alone. At that place that we call the Mount of Transfiguration, He gave them a glimpse of God's glory. As the men watched, Jesus' appearance was transformed so that his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as light. Matthew 17:2 All who know Christ as their Savior can look forward to a surprise for all eternity. Jesus told His disciples when He goes back to heaven, He will prepare a place for us. Bible translators don't know if we will live in mansions, rooms, or suites. But does it matter? When we enter the Lord's presence, we won't even think about our living quarters.

Are We Sure No Eye Has Seen?

Most of us have heard of people who died and came back to life. Many shared stories of what they had experienced on the other side. Some said they had never seen anything more beautiful. Others reported that during their experience, they had never heard such musical harmonies. Some stated they saw people they recognized. We have also heard others share horror experiences. Before long, though, their journey to the other side had concluded. Many saw themselves entering their bodies to resume life again, while others regained consciousness of their earthly existence. Do I believe what these people said they had seen and heard? I have no reason not to believe them. Do I think they went to heaven? Well . . . I have to say, I don't. I don't know where they went or what they had seen. But, if this verse is still relevant today, then this one thing I do know. – No eye has seen, and no ear has heard. According to that scripture verse, nothing compares to what God has prepared for us. We will all see God's wonderful glory together. He does, however, reveal mysteries through His Spirit. But it was to us that God revealed these things by his Spirit. For his Spirit searches out everything and shows us God's deep secrets. 1 Corinthians 2:10 So, do I believe these people saw and experienced something? Absolutely! The Lord gave them a wonderful experience. For those who had horrible experiences, God opened their eyes. I don't doubt the death of these folks or that they experienced eternity. According to their testimony, they described it as gorgeous. I wonder what "no eye has yet seen" will look like.

John's Vision

The Apostle John gave us some descriptions of what he saw when he received the Revelation. He tried to explain his vision to us by writing it down. We still don't understand everything he saw. Even things we know about, like a sea, but made of glass? Streets paved with gold? And a city built in a cube, 1400 miles on each side? I can't even imagine those things. John saw some incredible things, but how much didn't he see? According to what Paul said along with, No eye has seen, no ear has heard, he also said; . . . no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love Him. 1 Corinthians 2:9

Moses' Experience with God

God assured Moses that He would go with them when they headed toward the promised land. Knowing God's presence set them apart from other nations, Moses asked to see His presence. God told him, "You may not look directly at my face." In other words, no eye has seen Him and lived. So the Lord made provision for Moses to see the back of Him. As my glorious presence passes by, I will hide you in the crevice of the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. Then I will remove my hand and let you see me from behind. But my face will not be seen. Exodus 33:22-23 We don't know what it looked like when Moses saw God pass by. We don't understand what John witnessed, even though it was glorious. He did his best trying to describe the indescribable. The people who have died and come back to life have stirred our imaginations. Hollywood has tried to duplicate what they have heard but to no avail. Why? Because no eye has seen, yet.

Are You Ready to See What No Eye Has Ever Seen?

It all comes down to this one thing. Because no eye has seen and no ear has heard, it means no one has seen the finished product. Therefore, the best is yet to come. It took God seven days to create the universe. It has taken Jesus over 2000 years to prepare a place for us. So, as you go through each day, keep His promise in the forefront of your mind. I am going to prepare a place for you. When everything is ready, I will come and get you, so that you will always be with me where I am. John 14:2-3 Lord, we can't even imagine what eternity will be like. We live each day with the promise that Jesus is preparing a place and will come for us. We can't wait to see what no eye has seen. Check out these other posts about heaven. - Neither Wealth nor Works will get Anyone to heaven - Will There Be More Democrats Or Republicans In Heaven? - Store Your Treasures In Heaven - Our Citizenship Is In Heaven - The Throne Room In Heaven - The Lord Looks Down From Heaven Read the full article

[archangels-bible-annotations]

Genesis 16

16:1-2 Sarai and Abram could not have any children, so Sarai asked Abram to have a child with Sarai's maidservant. Why would they want to have children through the maidservant? Wouldn't that directly go against God's command, especially considering the last chapter? In the last chapter, it mentioned that Abram's offspring would be his heir, so technically this isn't going against what God said. Also important to notice "Abram obeyed the voice of Sarai." It sounds like he is trusting Sarai more than he is trusting in God's will. The last time this happened was with Adam and Eve.

16:3-4 Hagar, the maidservant, had conceived a child. She then believed that Sarai had despised her.

16:5-6 Because Hagar thought she was despised, Sarai knew she had made a mistake. This is exemplified when she says "My wrong be upon you!" Hagar was then "dealt harshly" and she fled. If she flees, then what becomes of Abram's child?

16:7 We see another appearance of an angel in the Bible. Before was during the creation and the guarding of the Garden of Eden.

16:8 The angel asks Hagar where she is going and where she comes from. Why would an angel sent from the Lord not know these details, especially considering that they live in a higher plane than mankind? You would think that if they were sent from the Lord they would have been debriefed about their mission. It is different than when God asks what is going on. When God asks, He is offering an opportunity of repentance; there is no repentance that can be granted by an angel. If anything, the benefit of the angel asking allows Hagar to acknowledge her wrongdoing rather than going as far as repentance. This verse may show that angels are not omniscient like God. Also note that when referring to the angel, a capital "He" is used rather than lowercase, signifying that angels are greater than man.

16:9-10 The Angel encourages Hagar to exemplify humility. This further signifies that the nature of the God the Angel serves is one that smiles upon these characteristics. He reassures her that her seed shall be countless. Why does the Angel state, "I will surely multiply your seed exceedingly"? Shouldn't the correct message be "The Lord will surely multiply..."? What power does this Angel have to prosper humanity? This shows that even the Angels are given authority by God to manage the course of humanity.

16:11 The Angel states that the child shall be called Ishmael due to her humiliation. The name "Ishmael" translates to "God listens," this is a sign of God seeing His children. So should have Hagar be punished in the first place? Was she not wrong for bearing false beliefs about her mistress?

16:12 Ishmael is described to be a "rustic man" who essentially will be enemies against all men. However, he shall "dwell in the presence of all his brethren." Why would be enemies of everyone and stay in their presence? Or is this verse saying that he will dwell with those who respect him?

16:13 Hagar gives the Angel a name "You Are the God Who Sees Me." This translates to "El Roi." Hagar describes her encounter as if it were with God directly rather than through an Angel. If she claims that the Angel was God, the Hagar had seen God "face to face"

16:14 The translation of the name of the well Hagar gave was from "Well of Him I Saw Before Me" translated to "Beer-lahay-roi."

16:15 Hagar bore Ishmael. It is stated that Abram named his son Ishmael, meaning that Hagar did return to Abram.

Other Remarks:

Sarai telling Abram to have a child with her maidservant seems to be out of Sarai's own volition, and not inspired by God. It was interesting to note that it states, "Abram obeyed the voice of Sarai." This is parallel to the story of Adam and Eve. The parallels of both stories show a sign of rebellion, an opportunity for repentance, and potentially a return. (v.1-2)

There might be enough evidence to point to God taking the form of an Angel to appear to Hagar rather than just having a messenger angel talk to Hagar. When an angel was mentioned to guard the Garden of Eden, "cherubim" was not capitalized. Also, the angels that got with the human women were not capitalized either. Lastly, Hagar even states that she saw "the One" face to face. This proof is also furthered by the Angel stating that "I" will multiply her seed; this states a direct action and will of the Angel, rather than of God.

If the Angel that appears to Hagar is not God, then it tells us about certain characteristics of the angels. Angels would have direct authority to change the course of mankind. Angels would have the power to do the will of God. Angels can appear before man. Angels can also direct man toward the characteristics pleasing to God, such as humility. (v.8-10)

God recognizes those who are lost. This is seen when God sees Hagar's humiliation. (v.11)

The OSB remarks the "Angel" to be the Son and the "Lord" to be the Father. This follows along with the reading and the power dynamics seen. The OSB also states as evidence that the Son is the only one that reveals the Father. This would mean that this is the second/third appearance of the Son in the Bible. First being at Creation, second being Melchizedek, and third being an Angel.

Questions:

Is it a sin to believe that someone despises you? What did Hagar do with the idea of being despised that got her kicked out of the house of Abram? (v.5-6)

What is the fate of Ishmael? Shall he be the one who God makes the entire earth prosper?

Why should Ishmael be against every man? (v.12)

Things to Add to Prayer:

Recognize us and pick us up Lord when we are lost and rejected.

-Mikhael

[dailyaudiobible]

2/17/2023 DAB Transcript

Leviticus 4:1-5:19, Mark 2:13-3:6, Psalm 36:1-12, Proverbs 10:1-2

Today is the 17th day of February, welcome to the Daily Audio Bible. I am Brian. It is wonderful to be here with you today, greetings once again, from the holy city of Jerusalem. We spent our day in and around Jerusalem yesterday. Today, we will be heading into the lowlands, but ending up back here in Jerusalem tonight. This has been a whirlwind; this is our second to the last day of the tour. So, tomorrow a big day, long day, but it concludes our tour and that has kind of flown by, as it does; feels like we’ve been here for a good six weeks but we don’t want to miss anything. And so, it’s drinking from a fire hose and packing it all in, but it is wonderful to be here with you today and we’ll talk about all that in a little bit. But we are here around the Global Campfire, all over the world together, to take the next step forward. We began the book of Leviticus yesterday and then we read the first three chapters of Leviticus. Today, Leviticus 4 and 5.

Commentary:

Okay, so, we talked quite a bit about sin today in the book of Leviticus. And one thing that we can notice right off the bat, is that God was being extraordinarily intentional about keeping the cost of sin clear, that it had a cost. And so, we went through the tedium of how a sacrifice had to be given, where blood had to be sprinkled, and what fingers had to be dipped, and what horns of the altar and all of this stuff. We can kind of like just tune out, like thank God we’re not doing that anymore because…because we claim the blood of Christ over our sin. So, it’s almost easy to get to Leviticus and go, man, I do not relate and that's where the journey ends, like I was saying at the beginning. But that would really be missing the point; sin against God has always been what estranges us from God. Like, that's been the story since the second day we started reading the Bible this year, since we’re back in the garden of Eden. And that truth, which is still true today, is being woven into the fabric of this new culture that is being formed in the wilderness among the children of Israel. So, sin required a sacrifice and going through that process was tedious. So, we can wonder like, seriously, God, the Almighty God is this bloodthirsty, He needs all this blood from all these animals, He needs to smell it? Like, is He really like that? I would have to say no, He's not. Sin destroys people and so, in this context, sin would destroy God's chosen people, that has not changed, sin, like look around you. Sin leads to death and destruction, in this culture that is being formed in the wilderness that is being baked in, like impossible to miss because it's so much of the ritual and procedure of any given day. We, like we don't have to do that. And so, it's easy for us to not even pay a attention to what we’re doing and the impact that it's having on us and those around us. For them, at the inauguration of this people, it is embedded as a foundational truth and view of who they are and how to live. We read it as instructions in the book of Leviticus but if we step back and think about the practicality that is, like going to your flock, and I know some of us have flocks, but most of us probably don't have flocks, but we choose the spotless one, the perfect one, the one you’ve raised, maybe since it was born. And you lead the sheep, or this animal and you walk with it and you get to the place of sacrifice, and you put your hands upon its head and a blade is unsheathed and its blood is spilled, and you realize that this is happening because of your own transgression. That's, that's more stark and it's supposed to be that stark, because sin is deadly. This is one of the things that the Bible repeatedly teaches us. And we can still have our, kinda our arms folded and be like yeah, I don’t know, like that’s pretty harsh. And then we find ourselves immediately going, I don't like this procedure and then we realize we’re judging what God laid out to teach the people and we forget that there is no need for a sin offering if there isn't sin. Like, if the people were transgressing, then there would be no sacrifice. So, it's not the sacrifice that God’s all interested in, its holy people, set apart from sin, and holy unto Him, to reveal Him, that He's after. Now we claim Jesus to be the sacrifice once and for all, destroying the claims of sin in our lives and that's a beautiful thing, but it's easy enough for us to forget that that cost something and we just moved through that story, as we were concluding the book of Matthew, just days ago. So, it should be fresh in our minds. The thing that destroys the bond of fellowship between us and God, is sin. It's deadly, it can tear our world apart and not put it back together. So, let's keep that in mind, not only to meditate upon in our own lives, but also, as we continue to take steps forward in the book of Leviticus.

Prayer:

So, Father, we…we thank You for Your word and this stark reminder today, that the decisions that we make, and the actions that we take have impact, impact on our own lives and souls, and impact on those around us. And You have invited us into Your story to be a holy people, that we might reveal You and Your kingdom and Your holiness to the world. Help us to remember, we ask, Jesus name. Amen.

Commentary:

Okay, so, I was mentioning we're going into the lowlands today, but yesterday we spent the day around the old city of Jerusalem, and we got a lot of lessons on congestion and maneuvering and in Jerusalem itself, and it's…it's as if one day in Jerusalem takes twice the energy of one day anywhere else, just because of the jostling and that's just the difficulty in navigating around things. And there's always something going on and always something to move around and so, whether it's road construction or whatever. It's a congested city with small streets and a lot of people and a lot of vehicles and that's a recipe, for, for a lot of chaos in a lot of, a lot of different ways. And so, just maneuvering around it, it’s just daily life in the big city. That's what we got to experience what that's like, but we got to see everything we wanted to see and that was spectacular. So, we began our day going up on top of the Temple Mound. Seeing the Dome of the Rock, walking around, it's really, it's really something. It's iconic, for sure. But there's just all kinds of things to think about, certainly thinking about the temple, certainly thinking about the ancient people and how they lived and how Jerusalem developed over different periods of time in Jewish history. And…and just how the Dome of the Rock came to be. Just all of it. And so, we walked around and processed all of that and then moved out from the Temple Mound, down through the Muslim quarter and kind of circling back through the checkpoint to where the Western Wall is, and then kind of exiting back out the way we came in, so that we crossed the street over to the archaeology that is being done on the city of David, the earliest archaeology of ancient Jerusalem. Even some archaeology going back to Canaanite times, when the city would've been Jebus, but mostly centered around the establishment of the city of David. After King David concurred Jebus and made it the City of David and the development that happened there with the first palace and kind of the government buildings and the establishment of the city and then preparations for the temple, which David's son Solomon built the first Temple, so that is pretty remarkable. I’ve been there before, many years ago, but much archaeology has been done and is ongoing and restoring as much of the original City of David as…as is possible. And so, that…that was really great. We ended up walking down and then through, there's a couple of tunnels, that were waterways into ancient Jerusalem. So, the way that David concurred the city was through a waterway and that still exists, from that time. That's got a lot of water in it, and you can do that, but we went through Hezekiah's tunnel, which was a from the time of Hezekiah. So, maybe around 700 years before Jesus. Hezekiah was a great King, reforming King, and so, he…he established a lot of things, including water access and the strengthening of the walls, the Assyrian Empire had come and destroyed the northern kingdom. And so, they were preparing, as well as expanding, and we get to appreciate some of that. And then getting all the way to the pool of Siloam, which we…we can locate Jesus at, in the Scriptures. And that is actually become much more of an active archaeological venture. The steps going into the pool, some…some of the steps going into the pool had been found a while back. And so, that's something that can definitely be visited, and you can…you can see how the steps went down into the pool. But now, I guess, the way that I understood it, the person who kind of owned the rest of the pool, well, wasn't really willing to sell the land and so it was just kind of bush and trees and stuff like that. But they finally did. And so, they've moved into gear and digging up and restoring the archaeology of the entire pool of Siloam. So, that was really cool. But just in general, being able to archaeologically see some of the original stuff going on as Jerusalem was established as this focal capital city, with the temple of God in it, that's…that's special. After that, we made our way back to the Western Wall. Some people call that the Wailing Wall, it's because of the prayer that is generally always happening there. There are plenty times, I guess, when it's empty, early in the morning, like when we were going on the Temple Mound, we could see the Western Wall, and there were definitely people praying there, but not a lot. I guess that’s just kinda comes and goes and depends on what time it is, but we were able to go in, and pray at the wall. The women and the men are segregated there, so the women pray on one side of it and the men on the other. I always enjoy going…going and praying at the wall. I really just have one prayer, like I go there like, what am I supposed to say. Like this is a place where people have been crying out to God for a long time, for a lot of things, and what words can I say. And I guess it's a place that I go, that has had so much prayer happening there, that it's like, do I just pray for my needs, and the needs of my family. And so, usually I have one word to say there and that is help, help, help us Lord, help us see. Help us. So, we…we prayed there and then walked up into the Jewish quarter, which is more than one flight of stairs, it’s a good climb of stairs to get up to the top there, were we found some lunch. It’s kind of cold, little bit rainy, thankfully it wasn’t like blowing wind and heavy rain, but it was a little chilly. And so, we got lunch and just kind of collected ourselves. And then moved toward our…our…our final destination for the day. The pools of Bethesda, where Jesus healed a man who had been waiting for 38 years. And He asked him do you want to be made well; do you want to be made whole. And we thought about that and thought about the journey that we've been through from the wilderness to the Galilee, to the coast, to Mount Carmel, to Jerusalem to Bethlehem, like all the places that we've been. And how so much of that boils down to that question that Jesus asked, do you want to be made whole? So, we spent some time there. We also went into St. Anne's church, which is right there at the pools of Bethesda, this is a Crusader era church, that's got remarkable acoustics. So, Jill sang for us, and we sang with her, feeling the heavenly reverberations of that space bouncing all around us and echoing. Before heading back, to catch our buses, which give us a little bit of a challenge, some road closures, some protests closing some roads about different political things. Same kind of stuff that we see in probably all of our countries, from time to time. And so, we had to do a little bit of walking to find a way to get picked up, but once we did, we navigated back to the hotel for the evening. So, fantastic day in Jerusalem around the old city. And we’re going to the lowlands today and I’m looking forward to that, and I'm looking forward to telling you about it, after it happens. Thank you for your continued prayers. Tomorrow is the last day of our journey, our pilgrimage together. And so, not only do we ask for your prayers over that, as we walk in the footsteps of Jesus final days, but also all of the packing and preparation and…and airports, and flights that are long and jostling around, and immigration and customs, and reentry and then reverse jet lag, trying to get back onto our home schedule and I just full hearts. All of the stuff that goes with that, just ask for your prayers, as we begin to think about those things. And we appreciate it very much.

If you want to partner with the Daily Audio Bible. First of all, thank you, humbly, you can do that at dailyaudiobible.com. There's a link on the homepage. If you're using the app, you can press the Give button in the upper right-hand corner or the mailing address is P.O. Box 1996 Springhill, Tennessee 37174.

And as always, if you have a prayer request or encouragement, you can hit the Hotline button in the app or you can dial 877-942-4253.

And that's it for today, I'm Brian, I love you and I'll be waiting for you here, tomorrow.

Prayer and Encouragements:

Good morning, this is Feddie from Florida. I’m so excited to be a part of this ministry with DAB, it has really been a blessing in my life. And I want to pray for Webster, from Tennessee. He gave a request, back on January the 8th. He was a man that talked about how he understands everything analytically and does really wanting to hear from God and to know that he has faith to believe God, in the midst of all that he’s going through. So, Webster, just want to let you know that God loves you with an everlasting love. Yes, just continue just to tune in and listen and hear and He’ll speak to your heart because you are so important to Him. So, sometimes we look at this like being like rocket science, but it really isn’t. He’ll even come to you in the still of the night and just speak a word to your heart, your soul, your mind, your spirit, so that you know that the Lord is with you. So, Father, I pray Lord God, that You will just open up Webster’s understanding. God, breath on him, Lord God, let him know that You hear his cries, You hear his prayers and that You’re with him. And God, I just pray that You’ll just give him an experience with You, like never before. Move by Your power, Your might, Your Spirit, in Webster’s life. Lord God, I declare new beginnings and that he’ll understand You in such a real way, Lord God, that You’ll just make Yourself known to him, through Your word, through even dealing with him, heart, mind, body, soul, and spirit. And God, I just plead the blood of Jesus that You will cover him and keep him. In Jesus name I pray. Amen and Amen. Have a blessed and wonderful day DABers. Bye Bye.

Hello Daily Audio Bible Family, this is Michael from London. I wanna go back to the 8th of February and a request lifted up by Webster from Tennessee about faith, or he believes he has a lack of faith. And as I listened to his recording, he is showing faith by actually calling in and asking people to pray for him. So, I want to read out, Hebrews 11 verse 1 for Webster. And it says this Webster, now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. So, you have cried out to people, all around the world, people that you may never see, including myself, for faith. We’re gonna pray for you right now and that for anyone else who is struggling with their faith at this time, we know that Lord will hear our prayers and will do what He needs to do in our lives. Lord God Almighty, we give You thanks and praise for today. We give You thanks and praise for Webster, Lord God, and his request, Lord God, for more faith. Let him know, oh God, that he has more faith than he recognizes. He has faith as a mustard seed and that will grow to be the biggest of trees that will grow in his life to be something fundamental that will change, not only his life, but people around him. So, I pray Your blessing, oh God, strengthen, oh God, with Your words. Encourage him, oh God, that there are people all around the world praying for him, lifting him up. And anyone else, oh God, who is hearing this prayer, who is struggling with their faith, we pray Father, that they would just look to You, the author and finisher of their faith, oh God. That’s where their faith will come from. And their faith will increase and rise. So, we give You all the praise and glory right now, oh God, and bless us we ask. In Your wonderful and precious name. Thank you everybody, have a great day. God bless. Bye Bye.

Hi, DABer family, my name is Lori, calling from Telu, Mexico but I also go by Tipsy for Jesus and I just felt compelled to call. This is my first time. Calling, thank you Brian and the entire family and staff for your beautiful ministry. There was a woman who called in on February 8th, her name was Erica from San Francisco. And I had to call because she had lost her mother last August and we have a very similar story because my mother had been pouring into me, her entire life, basically. Because she wanted to see me saved. She wanted to see me follow God and His Son, Christ Jesus. So, I had to call in and give you encouragement and let you know that, that is my testimony. My mom went home to be with the Lord in 2015 and it was only until then that that’s what brought me out of my lukewarmness and really made me, the Lord’s used that to testify to my heart because of the pain of losing such a beautiful mother. And so, I wanna see your testimony fall in the same exact steps, because it is not a coincidence that your mother wanted the same thing for you and your seeking. And so, I don’t want to pray for you but instead I want to bath you with some scriptures. And the first one is James 1:17, every good and perfect gift if from above coming down from the Father of the heavenly lives, with whom there is no change or shifting shadows. God is giving you this beautiful gift in your mother. So, please rejoice, please know that your mother is in the a very presence of the Lord, of Christ, and of the almighty God. And she wanted the same thing for you too. 1 Peter 5:7, I found this scripture after my mom passed. She wrote it down on a little note, it’s taped to my Bible, and it says, cast your cares upon Him, for He cares for you. Our almighty sovereign God and our Lord Jesus Christ, cares for your pain. They want to comfort you, they want to be there for you. And hopefully, this pain that you’re feeling right now, is going to move you to …

Good day, Daily Audio Bible family. It’s PQ and I’m calling in response to Daniel the Whole Hearted from North Carolina, rap for Renzo. Daniel I have one word, in response to your rap and that is BARS. That was a great rap. And I totally agree, and I add my faith to yours Renzo. All you now need is a dope beat and to walk that thing out. Praise the Lord. So, Father, I lift up Renzo and I thank You for this rap that Daniel created for Renzo. And I pray, Father God, that he will continue to live up to each and every line of that rap. I pray that You would anoint him from on high, to be and to do, all that You have called him to. Father God, I thank You for Renzo’s transparency, I thank You for his passion, for his love, for You and for this community. And I pray, Father God, that You would equip him and continue to bless him with wisdom beyond his age. And that You will continue to just be a shield around him and continue to give him the wisdom, Lord God, that he needs to be the man of God, that You have called him to be in the earth. Let him continue to speak Your words to his generation and to be an example to his generation and above all, I pray, Father God, that when he speaks, that You will let them hear it. In Jesus name. Amen.

Hey DAB family, this is Byron out in Florida. I hope you guys are doing well. So, Lent is coming up soon. Which is a very interesting time. I was not raised in the Christian tradition that observed Lent, had no idea what it was all about, until I started listening to the DAB years ago. Brian, observed it, as well as other parts of what they call, the Christian calendar. And eventually, I began to embrace it myself. And tried different things from Lent, and it’s lead to some of the most impactful fuel of my life. I’ve gotten out of practice of it over the last couple years and I want to get back into it. And, over the years, I transitioned from thinking of Lent as like, me giving up something, towards me doing something. And I try to pray about it beforehand, to figure out what I should do and this year, the plan is, I’m going to listen to every single second and hour of the community prayers that are aired once a weekend, in addition to the rest of the DAB prayers and readings. With the way my life is now, it’s a fight just to have enough time to listen to the DAB readings and the daily prayers, let alone multiple hours of community prayers. I don’t work a job where I could just play it in the background. And I want to be intentional in my listening. So, I have no idea how I’m going to work this out, but it’s something that I plan on doing and I covet your guy’s prayers in that regard. So, that I can fully engage into it and I also recommend that you guys pray over it too. If the Lord wants, you to commit to something for that period leading up to Resurrection Sunday. It’s lead to some really lasting and impactful changes for me, and I hope if you try, it does for you too. Love you all, praying for you all. Take care.  

[queerfables]

Okay I can actually answer some of these questions about the flaming sword! Most of them are explained by either the book or the Bible, although there are definitely a couple of threads left hanging.

Before I dive into that, though, I wanted to say I think you're spot on about the way Good Omens uses plot devices. The comparison you draw between the sword and the book of life is a great insight, in my opinion. Their importance is not necessarily in the consequences of how they're used but rather in what they reveal about the characters and systems associated with them. I think that's why I don't feel like the book of life is an unfired Chekhov's gun - even if it never comes back, it's still served several important purposes in the story just by existing as a threat.

Anyway, here's what I can tell you about the flaming sword.

Why was it issued to Aziraphale? You're asking the right question here. Why would an angel need a flaming sword to protect two humans? The answer, which is implied in the book but made explicit if you go back to Genesis, is that the guardians of the eastern gate were never supposed to protect Adam and Eve. Aziraphale was guarding Eden. His role was to stop humanity from ever returning after their exile for eating from the tree of knowledge.

After [God] drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life. (Genesis 3:24)

This is why it's such a big deal that Aziraphale gave the sword away to protect Adam and Eve. It wasn't just that he's giving away his celestial property, it's that God charged him to use the sword against them, and instead he gave it to them as protection.

This is also, maybe, why Crowley is so intrigued. By giving away the sword, Aziraphale is tacitly endorsing eating the apple, or at least he's refusing to enforce God's punishment for it through violent means. If you wanna go deeper... Genesis literally calls this section "the fall of man". Here's Aziraphale turning a weapon of punishment into a weapon of protection for those God has cast out. I imagine it means something to Crowley, to meet this angel who would refuse to take up arms against the fallen, even on God's direct order.

Did the sword kill War, Pollution and Famine?

Is the sword burning with hellfire? I think it's more likely it's burning with what you might call Holy Fire. Hellfire as a concept didn't exist in the original Good Omens book, it was introduced as a counterpart to holy water for the tv adaptation. I think this was a great decision and I love the new element that gives us to play with. But it's worth understanding that the sword originated in the context of a story that hadn't set up a heaven/hell - water/fire dichotomy, so it doesn't really fit into that paradigm. I think we're better off understanding it as a general holy weapon, and as a symbol (exactly the way you do when you describe its function as a plot device).

I'm gonna let book!Death field this one.

"Where'd they go?" said Wensley.

WHERE THEY BELONG, said Death, still holding Adam's gaze. WHERE THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN. BACK IN THE MINDS OF MAN.

This is clearer than the show's ominous "they'll be back~" though admittedly only marginally. My understanding is that they're no longer physically manifesting but they still exist because they're a human creation and humans are creating them constantly.

Where is the sword now? On a metaphorical level, I believe that it belongs to humanity now. Aziraphale took it back for a short time when he was facing down Satan, but it isn't really his any more. That's why the delivery man takes it back in the end.

On a literal level though? Who the fuck knows.

Mankind had not been very good at learning that swords are dangerous if left lying around...

To some extent, I believe that is the point. While they're at the airbase setting off the end of the world, War compares the militarised computer systems to the sword.

In that regard, I think it's a thread that's been left hanging, not because it will come up later but because the possiblity that it could come up later is thematically resonant. Humanity is still building lots of very clever ways to kill each other on a massive scale and one of the things the sword represents is that lurking potential for destruction.

But you're right, too, that it's ALSO a symbol of protection - and of the complicated grace extended not by God but by a fallible and very human sort of being who wanted to help someone, who couldn't foresee all the possible consequences of the action and did it anyway because they believed it was the right thing to do.

Ultimately, I think the sword didn't make an appearance in S2 because it's played it's part for now. Whether it will make another appearance or not I couldn't say, but I don't think it's a puzzle piece to be solved. That doesn't mean it's a case of sometimes a flaming sword is just a flaming sword, though. Sometimes a flaming sword is a moving commentary on the nature of humanity, violence, love and morality.

The Curious Incident of The Flaming Sword in Good Omens

Just like so many other Good Omens red herrings, hints and *Aziraphale voice* clues, the question of 'What the fuck ist the deal with Aziraphale's flaming sword' has been absolutely tormenting my mind ever since S1 dropped all those years ago.

And while many of my other questions about S2 (like 'What the fuck is the deal with the Eccles cakes' or 'Who the fuck made the Gabriel statue') remain unanswered and could, possibly, just not matter at all and I should just get the fuck over them– the unsolved case of Aziraphale's flaming sword in S1 has always seemed like a weirdly important blind spot to me.

So, in an attempt to finally solve this knot in my brain, I made a timeline for the bloody Flaming Sword because what else would I spend my Friday evening on. Here goes nothing, I thought:

Aziraphale gets issued the sword by Heaven to guard the Garden of Eden in 4004 BC, and gives it away to the humans.

God asks him about it right after they humans have left Eden, Aziraphale lies to her and before even finishing speaking, God just loggs off and doesn't seem to care anymore.

The sword seems to be lost for the next 6000 years to follow and, once again, no one really cares.

The first time we see it again is when the International Express Man delivers it to War in the present day.

The next time we see it after that, is when Pepper effectively kicks war in the shin, makes her drop the sword and proceeds to anihilate her with it.

Brian and Wensleydale do the same to Famine and Pollution.

Aziraphale then wields the sword once more, despite never having to really use it (but hey, it looks capital-B Badass).

Lastly, our Holy Delivery Guy then picks up the sword together with the other (now deceased?) Horsmen's artefacts and they once again vanish.

Needless to say, I found myself nothing the wiser after making this timeline. It seemed completely useless. I still had no idea why the sword even existed and why they kept making such a big fucking fuss about it all throughout Season 1. So, I decided to make another list, this time with all the random ass questions I had about this random ass sword:

Why was it issued to Aziraphale in the first place? Since when does an angel need a random flaming weapon to protect two (2) humans that are already being guarded by a hundred-meter-high wall, when he could very well just miracle away any and every threat to both himself and them?

Was he given the sword to defend himself against demons? If so, why would they give him a burning blade instead of, for example, a Supersoaker full of Holy Water? (Sure, I'm fairly certain Supersoakers hadn't been invented yet, but you catch my drift)

Is the sword actually burning with hellfire? If so, it would a) still be a pretty useless weapon against demons, but also b) possibly explain why Pepper, Brian and Wensleydale were able to kill or at least temporarily get rid of three of the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (who, be they whatever they actually are, surely count as some sort of immortal entities just like angels and demons do)

Did the sword actually kill War, Pollution and Famine? After all, the World as we knew it did get reinstated by Adam again once they managed to stop Armageddon. Does that mean that the three Horsemen were revived again too? Unless Season 2 takes place in a war-less, pollution-less and famine-less world, they must have somehow made their return (or never really died in the first place)

Where. The Fuck. Is. The Sword. Now? And why does it bother me so much???????

Alas, just like so many other questions, these too seemed to remain unsolved. And since the fucking sword didn't make a comeback in S2, I guessed that it probably just wasn't more than ... well, a randomly flaming, randomly misplaced, randomly unexplained Flaming Sword.

Nothing more than a plot device.

Hmm, right. A ... plot device.

Hang on. (And that's when it finally hit me.)

It's a fucking plot device.

Most authors and consumers of media are familiar with the use of plot devices in story telling. However, I personally had only every seen characters be used as such, to merely bring an important point across or further underline or advance a story's or main character's development or plot.

It wasn't until I was about to simply give up because I couldn't see my way out of the seemingly unlimited sword-related questions anymore, that I realized: There are no answers to those questions. Just like there are no deeper meanings to any other plot devices. Their sole purpose it so shine some light onto another, more important thing, story or character.

And in this case, that character is Aziraphale. Or more so Aziraphale's choices and his relationship with and belief in God and Heaven. The Flaming Sword (or more so Aziraphale's giving-away of it) is the first way of showing us that Aziraphale:

doesn't always aka pretty much never obey God's will (even all the way back in The Beginning),

will lie to God about disobeying Her

and possibly, just like Crowley joked about, was the one who by trying to do a Good Thing, accidentally gave away something that would later somehow become a literal War weapon, lmao

It also tells us that:

God apparently doesn't always care or cast them out of Heaven when an angel actively disobeys and lies to Her. Or, for all we know, Aziraphale giving the sword away and not admitting to it was somehow part of Her Ineffable Plan anyway.

Heaven is apparently absolutely useless at keeping track of its very few ethereal belongings. That's what you get for outsourcing work, you capitalists.

Right at The End, the sword returns to its owner who had it right in The Beginning too: Aziraphale. And not just that: It actually ends up saving the humans. For the second time. First all the way back in Eden, when it was just Adam and Eve. And now, 6000 years later, at what would have been the end of the World. Very poetic, *wipes away tear*

So yeah, there you go. That's the big revelation I have come to. Would I have preferred to uncover yet another sneaky Gaimanian easter egg just so I could wave it in your face like some sort of a puzzle solved at a scavenger hunt?

Sure.

But hey, sometimes flaming sword plot devices are just that. And I'll make my peace (or War?) with it.

[jellogram]

Biblical opinion that no one asked for but I've always thought it was pretty clear that the Adam and Eve story is meant to be an allegory. If you release yourself from the chains of examining the Bible as an attempt at fact to be proved or disproved and simply read it like you would any other story, I think there's some pretty interesting themes to explore. Personally I believe the Adam and Eve story is an ancient myth meant to explain that God (/the Creator/the Universe/whatever you want to call it) wanted their creations to have free will. This answers many common complaints about the story:

Why would God put the tree there at all? It wasn't meant to be a real tree, it symbolizes the spark of humanity and the spiritual conscience that is only gained if a being has self awareness and free will. Without that knowledge, we would have been infants or animals all our lives, and the creator didn't want that.

Why would God allow the devil into the garden? Again, he didn't, because it's a metaphor. The snake (which is never textually mentioned as being the devil) symbolizes the dark side that is gained by consuming the fruit. In other words, the ability to do evil, which isn't something an infant or an animal has. It's the voice in our heads that guides us towards wrongdoing, but it's a necessary voice to allow for free will. It shows how humanity, given even the most ideal circumstances, would not be humanity if they didn't sometimes give in to this voice.

Why was it Eve that gave in first? This has been construed in a very misogynistic way in the past, but there's a lot of ways to interpret this action. I think one could argue that Eve being the one to bring free will to humanity symbolizes motherhood, as her proverbially giving birth to humanity's consciousness. It could also be meant to portray women as being more attuned to spiritual forces. I think it's interesting to note the similarities between Eve and the Greek Pandora, because they seem like two different versions of ostensibly the same story.

Why did God punish them and kick them out of the Garden of Eden if he let them eat the fruit on purpose? This symbolizes that a utopia like Eden is not achieveable, because we are flawed by free will and we will always wreck it. God took away our chance at utopia, and gave us our human nature instead.

Then why even give us free will? Why not let us enjoy a utopia? Shit man, I don't know. I'm just examining the themes of the story. I would guess that the people who first told those stories knew that humanity couldn't achieve utopian society and used stories to explain why it was impossible.

I have absolutely no idea where my personal beliefs on any of this rest, but I think we do the Bible a disservice when we refuse to engage with it as a historical text. It's a pretty remarkable book. Once you let go of trying to r/atheism your way through the stories and just enjoy them as stories, you will find so many interesting things to think about. Like any mythology or folklore, the old testament is a collection of stories that were passed around, some true, some false, some in between, but all shared over centuries because they gave their listeners some deeper meaning to the world around them.

[brontelenoir-alarie]

What the story of The Fall means to me, and how I relate to it.

One of my favorite tumblr creators I've stumbled upon has these really awesome journaling prompts and I thought to share some of my writing on this post of zeirs in particular. Faces of Lucifer #2 talks about Lucifer being the Fallen Angel. Where some may think Lucifer is prone to evil and dispassion, there is no other that can understand the need for tender benevolence, protection and a shoulder to lean on when you are hurt, betrayed and drown trodden.

Zey provide a few prompts and other information. I highly recommend searching zeir page and enjoying their writing prompts! (Credits at end of Journal)

Since a good amount of my time in the Luciferian faith is spent scrutinizing over Christ worshiping scripture, I want to start by dissecting A scripture from Ezekiel, and two statements pulled from a Christ worshiping minister.

First I’ll start with the scripture:

“You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God…You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you. Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones. Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings” (Ezekiel 28:12–17 NIV).”

I can’t help but feel bitter when I read this. From the mouth of the Christ God, he agrees, stating that Lucifer was the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect beauty. The Christ God anointed him as a protector, The Christ God had given Lucifer a place in Eden. Lucifer was loved, and given love before jealousy and feelings of inadequacy took everything from him.

“Since Lucifer had been the model of perfection, what sort of sin led to his fall? His heart became proud because of his incredible beauty. Lucifer allowed his perfection to be the cause of his corruption.”

Lucifer’s great “evil”, is Pride. Pride in himself, in what the Christ God had indeed created knowingly... Lucifer also had ‘corrupted his wisdom with splendor’ which sounds a lot like “You were being too creative with your resources; we are feeling pretty wasteful and incompetent in comparison so….we can’t have that..”

I also don’t think Lucifer LET these things be the cause of his corruption… If you can really call any of this corrupt. I feel like there was no reason to fight against these accusations. Lucifer has and always will be the light bringer, a Harold of truth. Lucifer had no reason to fight his own authenticity.

After all why spend time squabbling over what is true and righteous? He must have known all along that this would happen eventually and he would just live for himself, un-apologetically, to be his highest and more perfect self.

Other angels fell with him...

“Scripture tells us that he took one-third of the angels (see Revelation 12:4)”

If my math is right, Revelation 5:11 says the angelic host was 10,000 x 10,000, which would equal 100,000,000 angels in the heavens and 33,333,333(.33) left when Lucifer was cast from heaven.

Whether or not these numbers are true, as they are stated by the bible, it seems as if Lucifer was not the only being that was affected by the unfairly contradictory nature of the Christ God.

The story of The Fall is only more proof of the nature between Lucifer and the Christ God for me. There is nothing that can convince me that the true nature of the Christ God is an ugly mess. Lucifer has and always will be the Truth.

I have had to think for a little bit on how I relate to this and how I would like to talk present those thoughts, I don’t like digging up old bones, but if there is something I have learned from Luciferianism is that there will usually always have to be hurt before we heal. It can be scary, but I am not alone in the process.

I have been a “Zero contact” family member for a long while. This is for several reasons, one of which is being un-apologetically myself. I spoke many truths into my home growing up, all of them fell on deaf ears, these truths had to do with lots of abuse and things that didn’t make sense. I needed explanations, I needed love, I needed honesty.

I stood by my truths, and I found closure in different ways, but these truths and independence led to some of my first fall-outs in my family.

At first, I remember feeling nothing but anger. Of course, this anger was veiled hurt, betrayal and abandonment. How can the same people tell me that they love me so much, so unconditionally and then turn around and tell me they hate the way I feel? Hate the way I think? Hate me?

Slowly but surely over the years all contact has been severed.

I still feel the loneliness, and jealousy of others that have not been forgotten and left behind by the people that are supposed to cherish them. However, I can find comfort and love from those that choose to be in my life, including the love of Lucifer, which I feel like I was truly meant for and those like myself. The warmth of his light can usually make my darkest days just a little more bearable. I know I can be understood, and I know he is always there for those that need him.

I did not know cosmic love until I found Luciferianism. What an absolute gift it is.

Gustave Doré, Paradise Lost, Book I (1866): “Him the Almighty Power / Hurled headlong flaming from th’ ethereal sky.” (I.44-45) . Sigil of Lucifer divider by: @peculiar-666 Journal Prompts by: @czortofbaldmountain "Faces of Lucifer #2"

[pllguy]

My Pre-release Thoughts/Mini-Theory of PLL: Original Sin

Now this theory (the first of many) will cover what I assume will take place or be relevant to what will be happening in the Pretty Little Liars reboot Pretty Little Liars: Original Sin.

Based off of what has been released so far as of date of posting (August 19th, 2021) the reboot’s details that have been released are few but already say a lot about what will take place.

The synopsis of the show, in a statement released by HBO Max, follows below.

“Twenty years ago, a series of tragic events almost ripped the blue-collar town of Millwood apart. Now, in the present day, a group of disparate teen girls—a brand-new set of Little Liars—find themselves tormented by an unknown Assailant and made to pay for the secret sin their parents committed two decades ago…as well as their own. In the dark, coming-of-RAGE, horror-tinged drama Pretty Little Liars: Original Sin, we find ourselves miles away from Rosewood, but within the existing Pretty Little Liars universe—in a brand new town, with a new generation of Little Liars.”

So what does this tell us? The reboot will be set in a town near Rosewood which could potentially allow cameo appearances from the original show’s cast, though if that happened, it would need to feel organic. I’d love seeing the old cast reprise their characters for a special appearance but I think it would be best to keep the two separate from each other so as to not mess with the original show’s characters and what those writers and creators intended versus the new creators. Also this tells us that not only will this new group of Liars be getting into trouble and keeping secrets, but that their parents previously did something that someone is out for revenge for the past and present.

Ok, so what are sins? In view of the Christian faith, there are Seven Deadly Sins and also what some view as the “Original Sin”. The Seven Deadly Sins are pride, greed, wrath, envy, lust, gluttony, and laziness (sloth), while the Original Sin refers to the belief humans are born to sin through their genetics they inherited from the first man and woman, Adam and Eve who first sinned against God in the Garden of Eden. *(Other religions/faiths have sins but since this story will be set in modern-day Pennsylvania, I believe that if it has any religious allusions, it would be to the Christian faith - no disrespect to the others!)

It has been revealed that Bailee Madison, Maia Reficco, and Chandler Kinney, have been cast as Imogen Abel, Noa Oliver, and Tabby Hayworth, respectively (pictured below left to right as mentioned).

Now THIS is what stood out to me… In a show entitled Pretty Little Liars: Original Sin, they created a character whose last name is Abel. In the Bible, there is the famous story of Abel and Cain, where one brother kills the other. To sum it up, Cain and Abel are the sons of Adam and Eve - Cain born first and Abel second. So Cain grows jealous of Abel for the favoritism being shown to him by God, so Cain murders his own brother, Abel.

*Note: the original Pretty Little Liars books even alluded to the story of Abel and Cain as that is the basis for the twins storyline of Alison and Courtney… notice the names have the same first letters, except Courtney is Abel and Alison is Cain (since she murdered Courtney).

Now how does this tie into my theory?

Well I believe that the original sin committed by the Liars’ parents was murder of a classmate/friend/enemy for one of the 7 deadly sins (or maybe it was self-defense?). Imogen Abel will either be killed by her (secret/twin?) sibling (like Abel) or she will end up the killer (like Cain). Since the books twisted the Abel/Cain story to make the killer’s name start with “A” (and ultimately be known as “A”), I think it’s fair to guess that Imogen could be the real killer and “A” in the reboot. Also her parents will definitely be involved in the “original sin” since their last name is Abel and Abel’s parents were Adam and Eve who committed the original sin.

I’m unsure how much material the reboot will pull from the books and the original show in terms of storyline ideas or plot points, so who knows what to really expect! However, a few key staples of the Pretty Little Liars brand are things that some fans may be tired of but they are what have made the show and the books the phenomenon they are. They are:

1. a group of characters being targeted, harassed, stalked, and tormented by an unknown foe who is always a few steps ahead of their prey

2. the unknown stalker being connected to the group or a specific member of the group, and having their reason for their actions being tied to the group/individual in some twisted/straightforward way

3. the one thing some fans will be tired of but I personally *love* … TWINS. Yupp, there HAS to be twins at some point in the show, and it has to be crucial to the plot. It was the premise of the books’ storyline, and then in the last A arc storyline in the original show.

For the PLL reboot to feel like I’m watching a PLL-inspired show (since I know it’s all new content), there HAS to be the 3 plot points I just mentioned and I believe that will be factored into my earlier points about Imogen and her family. Imogen will be the new Alison, and she will be the one to have a twin or even be the new A.

Final thoughts/mini-theories:

- I’m pretty positive that twins will be involved in the mystery, to what extent I am unsure but I have strong feelings Imogen will be featured in that storyline.

- It’s possible that Imogen may be a twin, and if it’s not her, I believe it will be one of her parents, since their last name is Abel, tying back into what I explained earlier.

- The Liars in the reboot will be more proactive in figuring out the identity of their stalker and the underlying mystery, than their predecessors in the original TV series. *No hate to the OG Liars but it always felt like they never tried hard enough to get law enforcement or anyone to help them out until the later seasons instead of from the get-go.*

- I don’t want this reboot to be a faithful adaptation in the sense of using all the material from the books but applying it to new characters. I have mixed opinions on it being set in the same universe as the OG show but I’m glad they will have a new setting, characters, and plot. I do still wish they utilize the twins storyline because I personally LOVE twins and have always found the PLL Alison/Courtney storylines one of the best ever written in terms of the buildup to the reveal, the details dropped along the way, and just the way my mind was blown apart reading it the first time.

So that’s pretty much all I have at this point based off what has been released. Hopefully this show will bring back old fans, bring in new fans, and we can rebuild the PLL community here again! Let me know your thoughts/theories/comments about the reboot, or even about the original show(s) and books! ❤️

[azazelsconfessional]

((so since i can't sleep what shall i talk about since i don't feel like getting on my laptop and doing proper answers/tags and such atm.

Here's something that maybe confuses some of you!

I've had Azazel mention before that Bablon was his first wife. And you may think. That sounds weird. Where'd you get that from.

So if you remember anything about Babalon that was only mentioned in passing, I feel like what you might remember is her comment of 'I only wanted to be equal to men.'

It's a good comment! Important thing to say!

But she also said something else I want to point out that's, imo, rather important to acknowledge.

Bablon ate from one of the Pillar Trees, the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge.

Now idk how many of you are of an Abrahamic originating faith(and if so I only partially apologize for the Aggressive Blasphemy on this blog) or were raised one or just happen to be familiar with the mythology there but

As someone who went to Christian school all their school life

The most notable woman to eat the forbidden fruit from the tree in the Garden of Eden which the Pillars are based on was Eve, the first woman.

But Eve never made a fuss about being equal to Adam. That anger towards dominating men is part of Babalon's character, so where did they get it if she's Eve?

Well! If you're familiar with the Jewish side of mythology there's actually someone else of relevance here!

(""blog spoilers"" because this references something that Azazel's been asked about but was somewhat avoidant with because i thought it might be more fun to have people ask about it and ~unravel some mysteries~ along the way but i have no patience i guess)

So! In Jewish mythology, Eve was not the first woman, to my understanding!

In fact, Eve was made of one of Adam's ribs. But earlier on, the bible says that God made man and woman, which sounds like they were supposed to be made at the same time(whereas Eve being made from one of Adam's ribs came about after Adam didn't connection strongly to any animals.)

But the actual first woman was made from the same earth as Adam, refused to be subservient to him, and left the Garden so God had to make Adam a new wife.

And the actual first woman's name was Lilith! And while I don't remember reading anything about her eating from the tree(and I admit I am underread atm shh there's a lot of shit to read), considering she's made at the same time and from the same source as Adam I'm sure she had the time at some point.

Now you may be thinking 'that's cool and all but where does Azazel come into this'

So to start off with that, Azazel got asked about Samael like. A week ago. And if you recall that ask, he was kind of vague about answering it, basically only saying that he liked Samael.

So Samael is often equated with Satan but whether or not they're the same entity is dubious because Samael, though sinful and condoning of sin, is considered "good". I decided to go with them being different for a few reasons, namely convenience and because Babalon surely would have seen him in MC if that were the case.

Samael supposedly means 'poison of god' or 'venom of god'

Which is a fitting name for a snake, I think.

Samael either orchestrated the tempting of Adam and Eve to sin with/using the snake or took the form of a snake to perform this temptation, depending on your source material. I'm going with the latter interpretation.

In the Book of Enoch, which some of Azazel's canon material references, Azazel is also the snake from the garden of Eden--which adds up if you consider God saying Azazel is to be blamed for all sin(Azazel himself corroberates this in-game by telling MC that their sins are because of him in the story where he marries MC and Zabaniyya.)

It also adds up if you make Samael and Azazel the same entity, as Samael condoned the sins of humanity as well as orchestrated Adam and Eve eating the fruit--and Samael could have just convinced Azazel to do it, but why not link two major sinful angels when Azazel already has so much fallen angel lore at once?

What I'm getting at is that, on this blog at least, Samael and Azazel are the same person--Samael is just a name that Azazel had very early along with a different Role. When he took on the Role of the Watcher after fulfilling the Role of [undecided, leaning towards Infection or Temptation], he began to use Samael less and Azazel more until he stopped using it entirely, or maybe took on the name Azazel when Lilith/Babalon was banished. Or maybe he was given the name with the new Role.

And in several sources, Lilith married Samael after leaving the Garden.

And thus, Babalon was married to Azazel on this blog once upon a time(or as married as Adam and Eve were.) They've since 'broken up'(Babalon was banished and Azazel wasn't for like 200+ years after lmao couldn't rrally sustain it even if they wanted to) and Babalon treats Azazel hostilely most of the time. Neither of them really discuss it lol

It's just headcanon for fun and to make some links around with his relationships and it's far from the most far-fetched one I have lol

Of course if people disagree with it or someone who wants to play Babalon or Samael disagrees with it, I have no problem with that and won't enact it on them! But like that's why we have those answers, in case you were wondering.

TL;DR--Babalon canonically implies she's Lilith and I make Azazel Samael for reasons and that's why they used to be married.))

[little-chattes]

Ok so I’ve done a complete re-read through and one thing that kept nagging at me was how little Gideon and Harrow’s relationship makes sense given its quite frankly abusive origins. Harrow spends her whole life making Gideon’s a living hell and Gideon just… forgives her. Total and complete forgiveness for an irredeemable girl.

At first I took the sudden shift in their relationship as lazy writing to rush along the end of the story, but that didn't make any sense either. Muir strikes me as an intensely purposeful writer. Then I remembered that Muir is also an intensely Catholic writer and it hit me. Muir isn’t writing a story about a healthy human relationship, oh no, she’s writing a story about Christ’s relationship with The Church… if Christ was a sword toting butch lesbian and The Church was a sardonic bone witch. Call it tender blasphemy. 

Now Gideon’s role as a Christ figure is fairly easy to parse out given that her dad is… God. But for the sake of self indulgence (I have to put my 15 year long flirtation with Christianity to use somehow) I’m going to go through all the parallels anyway. There are a LOT of them.

Let’s start at the very beginning (a very good place to start).

Miraculous Conception

Luke 1:34-38

34 But Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I [e]am a virgin?” 35 The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; for that reason also the [f]holy Child will be called the Son of God. 

Gideon is conceived by artificial means when one of God’s own servants (Mercy) delivers a sample of John’s genetic material to Wake, a ‘normal’ human woman who chooses to carry Gideon in her womb. Notably, the sample lives far beyond its point of expected viability, thus making the conception somewhat miraculous (“Only the sample was still active, no idea how considering it was twelve weeks after the fact” HTN 441). 

The Cuckold

Matthew 1:18-25

18 Now the birth of Jesus the [a]Messiah was as follows: when His mother Mary had been [b]betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be pregnant by the Holy Spirit. 19 And her husband Joseph, since he was a righteous man and did not want to disgrace her, planned to [c]send her away secretly. 

Gideon the First decides not to kill his lover, Wake, and releases her out the airlock (AND HE TOOK PITY ON ME! HE TOOK PITY ON ME! HE SAW ME AND HE TOOK PITY ON ME” from Harrow’s vision of Wake’s note, HTN 124) just as Joseph took pity on Mary, his betrothed, by deciding to divorce her quietly instead of making her infidelity public which would condemn her to death by public stoning (Deuteronomy 22:21). Gideon the First knew that Wake was pregnant and didn’t tell John because he thought the baby was his. Similarly, Joseph goes on to raise Jesus as his own son.

The Birth

Luke 2:7

And she gave birth to her firstborn son; and she wrapped Him in cloths, and laid Him in a [f]manger, because there was no [g]room for them in the inn.

 Neither baby Jesus nor baby Gideon were given a proper cradle, one being laid to rest in a manger where the animals ate and the other stuffed in a transplant bio-container (GTN 23). 

The Dead Children

16 When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi.

King Herod intends to kill the prophesied King of the Jews and instead of finding the specific baby, he just has a bunch of them slaughtered. However, Jesus escapes the slaughter of the innocents by Herod when his parents secret him away to Egypt.

 When the great aunts gas the nursery and kill the 200, Gideon is meant to die along with them but escapes her fate.

Now this event has a completely different biblical connotation for Harrow. 

Firstly, the murder of the 200 children represents Original Sin. In the bible, Adam and Eve disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden, and as their descendants, all of humankind is doomed to also bear the weight of that sin from the moment we are born until the day we die. This is a fact that is drilled into Christians as soon as we’re able to understand it, we are born wretched and unworthy sinners, and there’s nothing we can do ourselves to fix that. 

“I have tried to dismantle you, Gideon Nav! The Ninth House poisoned you, we trod you underfoot—I took you to this killing field as my slave—you refuse to die, and you pity me! Strike me down. You’ve won. I’ve lived my whole wretched life at your mercy, yours alone, and God knows I deserve to die at your hand. You are my only friend. I am undone without you.”

Harrow is a multitude, she is 200 children, the entire future of her house. Shes not just one human being,, she’s the whole damn church.

Naz/Nav

he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets, that he would be called a Nazarene.

Although Gideon is not from the Ninth, she is given the Ninth name Nav when she arrives as a baby. Similarly, Jesus is known as Jesus of Nazareth, though that is not where he was born.

The Poor Bondservant

Jesus' role as a servant is emphasized many times in the bible. He was a carpenter's son born in a stable 

Philippians 2:5-8

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

 Gideon is described as being made “a very small bondswoman” (GTN 24)

The Sword

Matthew 10:34

Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

The Wretched Sinner

Harrow is wretched, self loathing, and cruel. 

She is in thrall of the enemy of god, a figure who was once gods most favoured warrior, cast into hell.

She is like the depiction of the sinner who loves the devil

It's important to note that Harrow isn’t a single person, she is a multitude, the entire future of her people condensed into one body. 

The Enemy of God

20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, nholding in his hand the key to othe bottomless pit1 and a great chain. 2 And he seized pthe dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and qbound him for a thousand years, 3 and threw him into othe pit, and shut it and rsealed it over him, so that she might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.

Before the fall, Satan was described as a “guardian cherub” who resided in the garden with God (Ezekiel 28:14) 

(a funny aside, in the bible the devil is known as the great deceiver but in HTN Muir specifies that Alecto is incapable of lying)

A Life of Abuse 

Isaiah 53:3

"He was despised and rejected by mankind,

    a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.

Like one from whom people hide their faces

    he was despised, and we held him in low esteem”

They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him off the cliff" (Luke 4:28–29).

Gideon lives a life of mockery and is abused by Harrow.

An Unlikely Savior

Despite the fact that Gideon does not fit the expected image of a Cavalier, Harrow chooses Gideon to be her sword and protector.

Despite the many openings Gideon has to make Harrow pay for the pain she caused her, she remains loyal to her

Trust

Harrow realizes that she cannot face the lyctor trials without Gideon, and places her trust in her

Christians are told they must place their trust in jesus in order to reach salvation

Purifying Water

Acts 2:38

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Harrow confesses her sins to Gideon and puts herself at her mercy

Gideon forgives Harrow totally and completely, she baptises her

One Flesh

Mark 10:8

and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh.

“The imagery and symbolism of marriage is applied to Christ and the body of believers known as the church. The church is comprised of those who have trusted in Jesus Christ as their personal Savior and have received eternal life. Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride” (x)

Ephesians 5:25-26

25 gHusbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and hgave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by ithe washing of water jwith the word,

They take the vow of necro and cav, one flesh one end

Gideon’s forgiveness of Harrow is reaffirmed

Harrow risks her life to stay and fight with Gideon, even if it means her death and thus the destruction of her death. Her love for Gideon is now greater than her love for the Body.

The Sacrifice

John 19:34

Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.

They will look on the one they have pierced'" (John 19:36–37).

Gideon chooses to die for Harrow, death by piercing

and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

In order to complete the lyctor process, Harrow both physically and spiritually consumes Gideon

Because of Gideon’s sacrifice, Harrow attains eternal life at the right hand of god

The Tomb

The Resurrection

1On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women came to the tomb, bringing the spices they had prepared. 2 They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus

Harrow turns her body into a tomb for Gideon, a tomb fashioned after that on the Ninth

Resurrection on the Third Day

Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Luke 24:46-47 

“So many months had passed: and yet, at the same time, she had only lost Gideon Nav three days ago. It was the morning of the third day in a universe without her cavalier: it was the morning of the third day—and all the back of her brain could say, in exquisite agonies of amazement, was: She is dead. I will never see her again.” (HTN 374)

Just in case you missed this important piece of information, Muir repeats it three times.

Go, and tell them, then, that he that was dead is alive, and lives for evermore, and has the keys of death and the grave,"

[imsorryimlate]

Specific references in Pomegranate Seeds, sorted by chapter

Title of work: Pomegranate Seeds

A reference to the myth of Persephone and Hades, where Hades is the god of the underworld who kidnaps Persephone – the daughter of Demeter, goddess of agriculture and harvest – and makes her queen of the underworld. He gives her a pomegranate to eat, and for every seed she swallows she has to spend a month with Hades in the underworld. During the months she is with Hades, she is gone from her mother, and that’s why autumn and winter exist (since Demeter is grieving the loss of her daughter). Spring and summer are the months when she is back with Demeter, and Demeter is once again happy. The myth has lots of interpretations, but my favourite is the one where it is said to be based on the trauma of both daughter and mother as they are separated when the daughter gets married and enters a new household.

Even though Giorno’s mother didn’t treat him well, her death was most likely traumatic to him. He enters the new household of Dio (Hades) and every time they touch each other in a way that isn’t befitting father and son, one could say that Giorno swallows another pomegranate seed, and it binds him to the underworld. In this case, the underworld would both represent the criminal world, but also the trap of their incestuous relationship that he then cannot leave, should he want to.

No specific references in chapters 1 & 2.

Chapter 3:

Demetra – Giorno’s mother doesn’t have a name in canon, so I made one up. Demetra is the Italian version of Demeter, which is the name of the Greek goddess of agriculture and harvest. The goddess is the mother of Persephone, and the title of this fic – Pomegranate Seeds – is a reference to the myth of Hades and Persephone.

The biblical paintings in the church – John the Baptist (martyr) was beheaded, and Judas (traitor) hung himself. The imagery around Eve, the snake and the red apple, well… depending on how you interpret the story in the Bible, this could mean that the scene doesn’t represent a fall from grace, but rather that it was God’s intention to have humanity step into the broader world.

Dio’s books – I mostly just had a look at my own bookshelf, but I purposely included Nabokov, Machiavelli, and Plato. Nabokov, of course, references his infamous novel Lolita. Machiavelli was an Italian politician and philosopher during the Renaissance, and he’s most famous for his book The Prince, where he gave rulers quite… devious advice, not shying away from unethical and corrupt means. Therefore Machiavelli and the derived term Machiavellian often denotes (political) deceit. And Plato, well, in his text The Symposium he speaks of the ancient practice of pederasty in a very positive manner, and claiming that it is the purest form of love.

Aniara – I picked the book because it’s my sister’s favourite. It is a book-length epic science fiction poem that narrates the tragedy of a large passenger spacecraft carrying a cargo of colonists escaping destruction on Earth veering off course, leaving the Solar System and entering into an existential struggle. This is the “space-travel” Giorno later reflects on while in the bath.

No specific references in chapter 4.

Chapter 5:

The next reference to Machiavelli – Giorno thinks about Machiavelli and the question if it is better to be feared or loved, which is something Machiavelli writes about in his book The Prince, where he states that it is better for a ruler to be feared than loved, if they cannot be both.

No specific references in chapter 6.

Chapter 7:

Reckless – Giorno notes that Dio wants him “recklessly, passionately”. This is one of the two times the word “reckless” is used in this story; the only other time being in the first chapter when Giorno’s mother dies after her car collides with a reckless truck. Dio’s desire for Giorno is tied together with that accident, as if it’s equally dangerous.

Jewel – “Yes, Giorno would like something like that; to show Dio that he was a prized jewel, cut to fit perfectly in the curve of his palm.” This line directly references the Song of Songs 7:1 “Your rounded thighs are like jewels, the work of a master hand.”

Eden – “How truly unfortunate, that the most tempting fruit should be found in the middle of Eden.” The garden of Eden, in the Bible, is where life is first created by God. It can therefore also symbolise family, where life also is created. So what Dio essentially says here is “what a shame the most fuckable person is found in my family”.

Draconic tendencies – Giorno having “draconic tendencies” is a reference to his earlier thoughts about Abbacchio hoarding Bucciarati like a jealous dragon.

Chapter 8:

Buttercups – Giorno picks a bouquet of buttercups for Dio, and buttercups have traditionally been associated with childhood. It is meant to express that Giorno, no matter how mature he himself is convinced that he is, still has a childish edge to his affection. As a fun aside, the Latin name for buttercups is Ranunculus, which means “little frog”.

Leda and the Swan – the painting Dio has in his study. It is, of course, an erotic yet controversial motif in itself, but there are some references to the Greek myth it is based on. In it, Zeus disguises himself as a swan and copulates with Leda. It is not entirely clear if it is by rape or seduction. Zeus, of course, is known for his sexual escapades, his violent temper and jealousy, but here he disguises himself as a swan, which is an animal that in European culture often has symbolised love and fidelity. This story of a shady person disguising himself as someone loving, to enter a relationship where consent is dubious at best, well… I think the implications are clear. As a fun aside, the name Zeus and the name Dio are directly connected.

Uneasy lies the head – the whole quote is “uneasy lies the head that wears a crown”, a saying from Shakespeare’s play Henry IV, Part 2, meaning that someone with great responsibilities won’t be able to rest properly.

The prodigal son – it’s a reference to a parable in the Bible, from Luke 15:11-32. The story goes that a son requests his inheritance early, spends it all irresponsibly, and then returns home to beg his father to let him work for him. His father, however, welcomes him home with open arms and throws a feast, which indicates that he has hopefully waiting for the son to return.

Nakedness – the scene in Giorno’s room, where he lowers his duvet to display his “nakedness”, the word choice here is important. Except for Genesis 42, all biblical occurrences of the common idiom ”to see the nakedness of” or “to uncover the nakedness of” are explicitly sexual, usually referring to incest. The Classical Hebrew word 'erwā is not “nudity” but “nakedness”, in the sense of something that is unseemly or improper to look at or expose; often used to denote forbidden sexual relations.

Chapter 9:

Wine-dark – Dio’s eyes are described as wine-dark, which is a reference to the use of “wine-dark sea” in Homer. It’s an epithet used in the Iliad and the Odyssey, of uncertain meaning. What exactly does it mean that the sea is “wine-dark”? Is it a reference to the stormy sea being unpredictable, like someone who’s drunk on wine? Or does it tell us something about how ancient Greeks perceived colours, where maybe depth and opacity levels were more important than hues?

Ambrosia – Giorno compares the taste of Dio’s seed to ambrosia, which is the food and drink of the gods in Greek mythology.

Lollipop – Giorno is sucking on a lollipop while he’s out shopping. This is a shameless reference to the most culturally recognised image of Nabokov’s Lolita, where Sue Lyon, the actress who portrayed the character Lolita in Stanley Kubrick’s film adaption of the novel, is sucking on a red lollipop while wearing heart-shaped sunglasses. It’s worth noting, however, that the character Lolita doesn’t eat a lollipop in the novel or Kubrick’s film, and the images were only used for promotion. Either way, the lollipop has nonetheless become a symbol for playful, youthful temptation.

No specific references in chapter 10.

Chapter 11:

Dio’s alarming beauty – Giorno reflects on how beautiful Dio is, that he is alarmingly beautiful. This is a reference to a quote from The Secret History by Donna Tartt: “Beauty is rarely soft or consolatory. Quite the contrary. Genuine beauty is always quite alarming.”

Chapter 12:

Kisses – there’s a lot of descriptions of kissing in the beginning of this chapter, and it is all a reference to the biblical book Song of Songs. “Honey-sweet kisses that melted his tongue” is a reference to Song of Songs 4:11 “honey and milk are under your tongue”. On a more complicated note… “those kisses, Giorno drank them from his mouth like they were life-giving water” is a reference to Song of Songs 1:2 that should be “I want to drink kisses from his mouth”, however, most translations will read “let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth”. It’s really complicated as to why I and others would translate it differently, but in general it has to do with the manuscript and the Masoretic editors’ vocalisation, which in turn has a lot to do with evaluating Classical Hebrew grammar and poetic conventions… I am going to spare you that lecture, but I still wanted to let you know that you won’t find that wording in most English translations of the Bible.

The garden, Eden, and juvenile sex – this all ties together. The garden of Eden is, in the Bible, where life is created and before “the fall of man”, it is a place of peace and innocence. Now, it might seem strange to refer to innocence in a story like this, but there still is a certain kind of innocence to their relationship, especially on Giorno’s end. They are described as “easy and unafraid, in full view of God”, which again is a reference to the biblical creation story; after “the fall of man”, when Adam and Eve have sinned, they are suddenly afraid of God and tries to hide from him, and for the first time shield their nudity, since they have now lost that innocence. So, Dio and Giorno being unafraid in full view of God is another reference to them being fairly innocent. At least that’s how Giorno conceptualises it.

Satyriasis – a word for excessive sexual desire, and an outdated term for hypersexuality. The word was developed in relation to the satyrs of Greek mythology, who were lustful woodland gods.

Nipple play – Giorno sucking on Dio’s tits, well… quite obvious reference, but if you missed it; it’s a reference to breastfeeding and nourishment.

Sunlight – in Stardust Crusaders, Dio tells Polnareff that he too has pain in his life because he can never see the sunlight, since he is a vampire. In this story, Dio isn’t a vampire, but I still wanted to include this pain. Dio’s love for the sunshine, and the depravation of it in his childhood, is my attempt to reconceptualise it.

Chapter 13:

Ice cream – elder flower sorbet has a tendency to taste like laundry detergent if you’re not careful, so Mista definitely picked the wrong flavour that time.

Know thy enemy – “know thy enemy” is a famous quote from The Art of War by Sun Tzu.

Chapter 14:

Paradise burning – more Eden references, they never truly stop.

Loins – in Classical Hebrew, one specifically emphasises that a child has sprung from someone’s loins to indicate that it is a biological child rather than an adopted one.

Deadly sins – Giorno notes that one of the seven deadly sins, sloth (that is, excessive laziness and indifference), doesn’t come as naturally to him as others would (such as lust or pride).

Know thy self – another reference to the famous quote of Sun Tzu’s The Art of War.

Companion – Giorno thinks about how the universe has blessed Dio with a companion that can keep up with him, which is a subtle reference to the creation myth in the Bible. There, God creates the first human, Adam. Adam attempts to find a companion amongst the other creatures, but cannot find an equal until God creates another human – incidentally, God creates another human from Adam (by his rib), which of course parallels with Giorno being created from Dio, since he is his biological child.

Clay – the dream Giorno has of Dio forming him out of clay and breathing life into him is another direct reference to the creation myth in the Bible, where God forms the first human out of clay/soil/dust from the ground and breathes life into his nostrils. Similar creation myths are found in several ancient Near Eastern religions. If you want a little more “fun” fact, the first human is named Adam, a name he gets from the Classical Hebrew word for “man” (as in human – not male), which is adam, and the word for “ground” is adamah, which ties to all together quite nicely.

Nakedness – Dio uncovers Giorno’s nakedness, and just like in chapter 8 it’s a biblical reference. Except for Genesis 42, all biblical occurrences of the common idiom ”to see the nakedness of” or “to uncover the nakedness of” are explicitly sexual, usually referring to incest. The Classical Hebrew word 'erwā is not “nudity” but “nakedness”, in the sense of something that is unseemly or improper to look at or expose; often used to denote forbidden sexual relations.

Chapter 15.

Cuddling – after having breakfast, they cuddle, and their position is described as Giorno resting his head on Dio’s left arm, and Dio draping his other arm over Giorno’s waist. This position is a reference to the biblical book the Song of Songs 2:6 “His left arm is under my head, and his right arm embraces me.”

Angel lust – Dio gets hard after Giorno chokes him, which he says is a perfectly natural reaction to being choked. Which it is! “Angel lust” or “death erection” refers to the phenomenon of men executed by hanging having an erection, because of the increased downward blood flow. After observing this, doctors in the 17th century started prescribing choking sex to men with erectile dysfunction, and that’s partly where erotic asphyxiation comes from.

England – the phrase “lie back and think of England”, alternatively “close your eyes and think of England” is an old-timey reference to unwanted sex that one doesn’t enjoy – specifically used for sex within a marriage, which at least back in the day was more of an economic arrangement than a love affair. Disgustingly, it means “just lie back and endure it”.

Bone of my bones, flesh of my flesh – this is another reference to the creation story in the Bible. The specific verse is Genesis 2:23, when God has created another human to be a worthy companion of the first one. Adam, the first human, has searched for a companion among the animals but been unsuccessful to find an equal. But when he meets the newly created Eve, the second human, he exclaims “At last! This is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh” (since she was created from his rib). That “at last!” is very sweet – and fits in this story too! Dio has finally found a worthy companion to share his highest highs and deepest lows with.

Chapter 16.

Roses – Giorno buys a bouquet of roses for Dio. This is intended as a contrast to the buttercups he picked for Dio in chapter 8, being that roses are a much more “mature” flower than buttercups, therefore showing that Giorno has matured. Also, the fact that he buys the bouquet of roses while he picked the buttercups indicate a certain loss of simplicity and naturalness in their relationship.

Fin.