#the brujay meta I posted with panels and sources? barely noticed. rip lil guy

[necrotic-nephilim]

@an-android-child listen your argument is perfect because all jokes aside when you're discussing a character like Bruce Wayne who's existed for nearly a century of on-going content there is going to be so many versions of him that it's hard to discussion him as a whole because you have to pick some sort of baseline. what is to me a terrible father figure based on the canon content I consume could be a great father figure based on the canon content someone else consumes so he's always fluctuating and changing. and while yes I prefer and think it's more "in-character" for Bruce to be flawed I can't discredit the opposite argument because something something the inherent nature of the art of comic books as a medium. HOWEVER COMMA

when we are discussing *Batcest*? There is *no* version of Batcest ships involving Bruce -BruDick, BruTim, BruJay, BruSteph, etc- where I think Bruce should be a good person. like my personal vision for *any* of these ships is built on the foundation of how terrible Bruce is to all of them. My Batcest ships are dependent on my Complicated Asshole opinions about Bruce. I think if healthy Batcest floats your boat I am cheering you on bc I totally get it, happy married couple BruDick does pretty well fit their vibe sometimes (particularly if you're using a Pre-Crisis or Rebirth framework where they get along The Most) but I want them unhealthy and toxic about each other. Dick and Bruce are That Couple™ who break up and get back together so often you have to text to ask them if you should send them joint or separate invitations to your Christmas party and by Christmas the relationship status has changed again. They are *so* deeply devoted to each other. They'd die for each other. They'd try to kill for each other and have the other half stop them. They also are only on speaking terms every other week. and 99% of the time Bruce *is* the problem. he's incapable of treating those he loves kindly because his hyper-vigilance is what drives him as a person.

and then with BruJay, honestly what better ship than those two, to depict the dynamic of loving someone to the point of possessive devotion but also wanting to change quite literally everything about them. Jason needs Bruce to be willing to break his moral code to prove he loves Jason. Bruce needs Jason to be a version of himself he's not anymore. they're so possessive of each other. they also can't stand each other because Bruce won't let himself believe anyone but him can be right about these things. i think BruSteph falls into a similar vein tbh, though with Steph i think she's less about wanting to change him and more about just wanting to push back and change how he sees *her*. someday I'll convince this fandom to ship BruSteph more tbh bc i think it's *rife* with problematic dynamics of Bruce being the Worst to her bc of all the power dynamics and her refusing to just take it, pushing back against him.

and then. and then BruTim. not to have favorites but if a ship has Tim it's going to be a favorite. these two are terrible for each other. i think viewing their history through the lense of shipping is so fascinating when you consider Tim's choices and how he feels Batman needs Robin. imo BruTim is one of those ships that's codependent on a past history of BruDick, even if it was one-sided. because if Batman needs Robin and Bruce and Tim end up in a weird relationship, that means the need for Robin relies on Bruce's need to be kinda Weird about Robin. is it consensual? yes. but consensual in the way of Tim considering the risk/reward ratio of essentially being a lamb to slaughter for Bruce. offering himself up in that way because if it's good for Gotham, he'll sleep at night. and then of course you add the respect Tim has for Batman and how Bruce takes advantage of that (sometimes even in canon) to get Tim to do what he wants. it's willful codependence on Tim's side, and Bruce just accepting this random kid as the next Robin and them slotting into a Weird partner/mentor/mentee/lovers/therapist relationship. and Tim being the first Robin Bruce has to have parents that are alive and he has a decently healthy relationship with, there's no pretense of it being father/son or Tim being a ward like with Dick or Jason. there's less of a reason for Bruce to need to hold himself to a "fatherly" standard around Tim, which i think shows in a lot of Tim's comics. so they're more openly Weird with each other and i like that a lot.

anyway sorry for infodumping on you but your comment gave me a chance to just run my mouth about dirtybadwrong fun ships. so ty this was delightful to get into.

If you want to be bothered. Maybe this for dick and Bruce???

i ALWAYS want to be bothered these are always the highlight of my day tbh you're a delight for letting me just yap <3

Dick. For the canon isn't real square I am Specifically talking about the Tom Taylor Nightwing run. Usually I ignore bad runs but given this one is ongoing (though about to end THANK GOD and get replaced by Dan Watters who i have high hopes for since i adored his Sword of Azrael (2022) run but i digress) so I counted it. Especially since it's so debated if that run is bad or not, for some reason. I'm a 90s Nightwing truther. I love Dick so dearly and tbh recently I've been more enamored with him the more I read his Discowing era, I didn't used to be as big of a Dick stan as I am these days.

Bruce. Honestly where do you even start with Bruce. I want to fist fight him and also patch him up. He got me into comics and superheroes as a whole but I roll my eyes whenever he shows up in a story. He's a bastard and usually not a good father but also complex and should be dissected under a magnifying glass. I love him dearly. He's also just the worst. I think that's why I love him. I'm always a fan of unabashedly Complicated Asshole Bruce who's generally not always the best person, particularly not to the Batfamily and that being the driving force of his relationships with them, especially in shipping.

And for bonus points, Tim. Because know above all else, I'm a Tim Drake kinnie /deg. He's been my number one for a decade and I've yet to uproot him from my brain. He's literally the Worst half the time and I love him for it. And the canon isn't real refers to Tim Drake: Robin because... that sure was a comic. And that's about all I can say about it. Pre-Flashpoint Tim I miss you so dearly. I think it's fun that I want to put him in a blender and drink the juice but also want Nothing Ever to happen to him.