#the brat has shown up more than him and he actually seemed significant | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

jimlingss · 6 years ago

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Jungle Park [7]

Chapter 6 - Chapter 7 - Chapter 7.5 OR Chapter 8

➜ Words: 7.3k

➜ Genres: Fluff, Light Humour (?), Slice of Life, Workplace Romance!AU

➜ Summary: The equation is simple. Hoseok needs to hire someone. You need a job. Except like any actual equation, it’s not fucking simple at all! Not when you have to add the fact that he was forced to hire someone he doesn’t want in his office, he has little respect for your job in general, and oh yeah...once upon a time you might have—*CENSORED*.

Marriage seems to be the ultimate goal for many. And she can’t blame those who want it. At least when she constantly faces the most beautiful side of love and matrimony, bouquets of red roses and yellow tulips, long trains of wedding dresses, the tulle of the veil, the glowing smile of both bride and groom radiating happiness. Yes. Weddings were undoubtedly gorgeous. “And here...a song dedicated to these love birds.” The band behind her is already beginning and all the guests clap. It’s a pretty easy gig when she can sprout all the cheesiest nonsense and bullshit she wants and they eat it from the palm of her hand. “May their love be everlasting as the stars.” The woman with the sleek, long, black hair stands at the stage. She parts her lips and sings the first note, the melodic song filling the venue as the bride and groom begin their first dance. It’s another sickening love song of the most delusional lyrics, but she doesn’t care much. By the looks of people’s faces, they’re loving every second of it. When the song ends and she belts the last note out, microphone pressed to her lips, the audience erupts into claps with melted expressions. “That was amazing. You have a really beautiful voice,” the best man says as he approaches and the band continues playing some background music, others joining the dance floor. “Thanks.” She sets down the mic and climbs off the stage. “I’d like to say I try.” He trails after her to the side. “And you’re friends with the bride…?” “Oh no.” She uncaps a bottle of water and takes a sip, quenching her throat. “I’m just a hired wedding singer.” “You’re a professional then?” He grins and it’s obvious he’s trying to flirt with her through praise. She’s flattered, but largely unaffected. “One day, maybe I’ll be.” Her arm extends straight out and the best man shakes her hand with a firm grip. “My name is Jung Sowon.” “Nice to meet you, Sowon. My name is Sejin.” He smiles and lets go, slipping his hands into his black, dress pants pockets. He kicks the grass once and glances up. “I don’t know if this is okay, but I was wondering if I could get your number. I’d love to hear your lovely voice again.” “Well, I don’t know about my number, but I can give you a number.” She reaches inside her blazer pocket and pulls out a rectangular piece of white card stock and hands it to him. Sejin takes the card and frowns, reading the top. “Jung and Park….?” “That’s my brother’s law firm.” She beams brightly like a ball of sunshine. “He’s a divorce lawyer. Keep it. You might never know when it might come in handy.” The man is mortified, jaw slack as the card is still held in his hands and he watches the woman saunter away. When the band is on break, she also hands out the business cards like they’re flyers. “Please check out this law firm. Jung Hoseok does matters of divorce. He’s a really good lawyer.” She bows at the wedding guests and hand them the card as well. Their eyes are always wide, mouths dropping open. She even leaves them on people’s plates and on the tables like they’re wedding favours. “Hello, please take this. Jung Hoseok is a fantastic divorce lawyer.” Hey...it’s free advertisement. Might as well. As Sowon weaves between white round tables, a kid accidentally collides into her, face planting right into her legs. The little girl giggles and stares up, pretty hair decorated with a flower headband, pink dress wrinkled from running around — an angel on the outside and a parent’s nightmare on the inside. “Oops, sorry!” The older woman squats down with a smile, meeting her eyes at the same level. “It’s okay. I actually have a present for you.” She qurisk her head to the side, apples of her cheeks reddening from the cool breeze. “What is it?” “This.” She hands her the rectangular card and the child’s brows knit together while her cute lips pout. “This is really important. Give it to your parents, okay? It might help them one day.” “Okay!” She grins and goes running off. The wedding singer eventually strolls over to the buffet line and grabs free plates of food without anyone really noticing. She sings a handful more songs afterwards, most being the same old cliché love songs. Things couldn’t get easier or better than this. And after the party’s over, she bids goodbye to the band and packs up her stuff. At home, Sowon flops on the bed. Her body molds against the mattress, tired and aching bones she didn’t remember having ten years ago after running miles. She’s trying to muster energy to take a shower that’ll wash away the grime on her skin. But before she can launch herself on her feet again, her phone rings beside her head. It rings and rings and her arm reaches over, grabbing the mobile device. She smiles while reading the caller ID and picks up without another second to spare. “Well, well, well, looks like my little brother finally decided to give his poor, older sister a call. How long has it been, brat?” “Stop handing out my business card.” “Oh.” Her tone raises up in pitch from excitement. “Did you get more clients already, Seok?” “No!” Hoseok whines on the other line and she grins, practically able to hear his pout. “Angry calls are what I’m getting.” “They’re angry now, but one day, they’ll call and ask for help. I guarantee it.” “Stop.” He channels his firm voice despite knowing it’s futile. Much to Hoseok’s dismay, any time he’s shown his family his professional side, they cooed at him. Whenever he tried to command his sister, the next second he was being held in a choke hold, and threatening to sue did nothing but gain laughter from the maniac of a witch. Still, he likes to try. “I don’t like getting angry calls or voicemails or spam. Stop giving out my divorce business cards at weddings, you sick freak.” “Can’t I just boast about you?” She rolls around in the covers of her bed. “I’m so proud of my hot shot baby brother who thinks he’s too good for everyone else.” There’s a pause. “I’m begging you.” “We’ll see.” // At the rate he’s going, Hoseok wouldn’t be surprised if his head of hair will all turn gray by age thirty six. Maybe he’ll even start balding. It’s easy to misunderstand that he’s feeling this stressed since he’s constantly drowning in work. But that’s isn’t the case at all. Rather, Hoseok jumps into the ocean of work with open arms. He loves what he does and he thrives in the workplace. In his free time, he works and at work, he works twice as hard. He just loves the feeling of accomplishing his professional goals, of keeping busy, of being able to sleep at night knowing he didn't waste his time and that he did something useful for his future. Rather, Hoseok’s losing all his hair because of the women in his life. It would be nicer if they were romantical problems — if he had issues with his love life, significant others, potential lovers or partners. In that way, people would understand him and he’d be able to consult someone with more ease. But the women of his life include: his mother, his sister, the receptionists, Seulgi who’s a paralegal, Sunyi and Naul who are lawyers of his firm, and you. And each and every one of these people are handfuls. “In light of some recent issues in the office, I think it would be important to discuss sexual harassment in the workplace.” You’re standing up stiffly in front of the conference room, conducting your first ever seminar. A slideshow runs behind you, remote in your right hand and thick binder held in your left arm. If it weren’t for the way Inyoung is smiling at you, appreciating your efforts to protect the people in the firm and going this far to address the issues, you would be slick with sweat right now. Everyone is staring at you, their gazes pinpointed on your face. More importantly, Hoseok’s seat is the farthest, but his stare is the most intense. He looks at you as if you murdered his entire family and he’s seething and ready to enact revenge at your weakest moments. You know that it’s just his concentrated face, but it’s still intimidating and scary. But you never let him nor any of the uncertain thoughts in your head hinder your plans. You clear your throat, deciding to start right away. For now, it seems like everyone’s relatively engaged. You don’t want to drone on and on and make them bored. “What is sexual harassment?” You click the remote and the slideshow begins, going to the next slide where there’s some flashing text that draws people’s attention. “It’s any unwanted sexual advances or obscene remarks, including any comments or inappropriate touching, in the workplace.” The slide changes. For the most part it seems pretty straightforward, but you’re perfectly aware that the boundaries can become murky and it can become hard to tell what is or isn’t sexual harassment. “Let’s go over some examples…” “Derogatory language would be seen as sexual harassment. Even something as suggestive notes or emails. Invading personal space, any unnecessary physical contacts, demanding hugs are also all examples. Another—” A hand shoots up in the cluster of employees and your mouth shuts. “Alright, we have questions already. Yes?” Namjoon lowers his hand. “What if it’s consensual?” It’s a genuine inquiry. He’s not trying to give you a hard time. The paralegal’s face remains impassive and his head slightly tilts in curiosity. “It’s still inappropriate for the workplace. We wouldn’t condone it. Everyone should remain professional in this environment.” You nod and he does too, satisfied with your answer. “Speaking of which, inappropriate staring is also considered—….yes, Taehyung?” The caramel-haired lawyer smiles and explains, “Sometimes my mind goes on a trip and it looks like I’m staring when I’m not.” “Uh...well, as long as you don’t have the intention, it should be fine. But try your best to not let that happen, okay?” You continue after the man flashes a thumbs up, “No one should be sharing inappropriate pictures either. Please don’t share nudes in the office.” Seulgi looks over at Seokjin with a raised eyebrow and you don’t even want to know at this point. You click the remote, changing the slide again.“Sexual jokes are also looked down upon—” Yoongi raises his hand this time and then he crosses his arms. “Does that include ‘that’s what she said?” Sunyi rolls her eyes to the back of her skull and you can practically hear the storm of complaints she’ll make to you and the documents you’ll have to fill out. “....yes. Moving on, bragging about sexual endeavours is also improper behaviour. Everyone is here to work, not talk about their personal lives or what they did on the weekend.” Suddenly, Lisa coughs loudly like she’s choking a chicken bone. The noisy interruption gathers the attention of the room and she eyes Taehyung in particular who remains oblivious, perhaps on purpose. You continue quickly without prying or publicly humiliating anyone, “Basically if you’re wondering if an action is sexual harassment or not, just ask yourself ‘would I do this in front of my grandma?” It’s easy enough to understand and you even gain a few amused smiles around the room. “It’s a good rule of thumb for a lot of things. Would you talk badly about someone in front of your grandma? Would you talk about your sex life in front of your grandma? Would you send nudes in front of your grandma? Would you make sexual remarks in front of your grandma? The answer is no, right?” Your confidence boosts at the bubble of laughter that echoes throughout the group. “Our firm has a strict policy on sexual harassment. We take it very seriously in order to protect everyone and create a safe environment. If you ever feel unsafe, threatened, or uncomfortable, come talk to me, Jimin or Hoseok at any time. There will be absolutely no tolerance for this sort of thing.” The slide changes again. “And just putting it out there, if there are any office romances, then you need to file with HR. All you need to do is fill out a form and sign. It’s just for the firm to be aware. We are legally obligated to protect every employee here from sexual harassment and hostile work environments.” After a few more minutes of going over more details and getting the group to watch an old video you found on the internet that explains and reenacts different scenarios, you flicker the conference room lights back on and stand in front, preparing to close the seminar up. “Does anyone have any questions?” “How about after work?” Jungkook’s voice is soft and shy, and you’re happy that he’s actively participating. “Do these rules apply?” “....No,” you answer after thinking carefully. Jimin seems to have no problem with your answer, but you can’t exactly tell with Hoseok when he’s still half-staring, half-glaring at you. “You’re free to do whatever you want after work, but please be five hundred meters away from this firm. Don’t do anything on company property.” Seokjin raises his hand and speaks without being called upon, “So we can’t get it on in this office?” There’s a few disgusted looks that pass around, mostly from Dahyun and Inyoung who look like they’ve bitten into a sour lemon. On the other hand, Seulgi and Namjoon don’t look too unfazed with his particular inquiry. You can only sigh. “Under no circumstance should you ever engage in any sexual acts inside this office.” Taehyung’s palm lifts, surprisingly timid. “What happens if you’ve already broken that rule?” “Ew, gross!” Seulgi’s expression blanches and even Yoongi’s brow lifts, skeptical expression marring his blankness. Jimin scoffs with a laugh and Hoseok groans, rubbing his temples. “You’re all a bunch of wild animals,” Naul waves him off and looks away. “Look it wasn’t my fault!” Taehyung tries to defend, feeling like he was somehow put on trial and is at the stand in front of his accusatory colleagues. “I met her at a bar and we got wasted and I was being responsible by not driving! And the office was only a block away, so I decided why not!” “Oh my god!” Sunyi is screeching and cups her hands over her ears like she can block out the monstrosities she’s hearing. “Oh my god, oh my god.” “Why are you treating me all like this!” He laughs in disbelief. “I cleaned up the desk after and I personally bought that carpet cleaning solution and I scrubbed the carpets for like an hour—” “Too much information, dude!” Namjoon interrupts with a loud voice. “We don’t want to know!” “Oh my god!” Yoongi suddenly bolts up from his seat and turns to the fellow lawyer. His arm extends and his hand quivers as he points to Taehyung’s face, features marred with complete horror. “Is that why my office smelled like that for an entire week?!” Sunyi bursts out in hysterical laughter. She has to physically grab her stomach as she leans over with giggles streaming infectiously out of her throat. The lawyer is no longer disturbed listening to Taehyung’s sexual endeavors in the office, instead savouring the look on Min Yoongi’s face. “Serves you right! Get a taste of that, Min.” Suddenly, Taehyung turns to her. He becomes serious, all traces of humour and mischief escaping from him. Then, her smile falls, and she slowly shakes her head. “No…” The disbelief quickly becomes fear. “No...no, you...didn’t….you...wouldn’t…” “That stain on your couch—” His timbre is low and vibrates. “—it wasn’t ketchup.” “Gross! Gross! I can’t believe you would do that in my office! That’s where I work and eat and—! Oh my god, I sleep on that couch sometimes, Taehyung! What’s wrong with you, freak?!” “Serves you right,” Yoongi mocks her back in a whisper. Taehyung leans back in his seat and scans the room with his sharp eyes. “You’re making such a big deal out of this like you haven’t done it yourselves when I know for a fact that you have!” Dahyun looks away. Seulgi shifts uncomfortably. You don’t miss the way Sunyi glances at Yoongi for the shortest of seconds, the both of them gone quiet. But you get distracted when Lisa shouts, “We haven’t!” “Liar.” He turns to the oldest lawyer on the team, the middle aged woman who is sipping on her beverage and watching the gong show go down. “Come on, Naul. I know you’ve brought your husband here more than twice.” “I have a bedroom, thank you very much.” “Jin?” The man in question dodges. “My secrets will stay as secrets.” “Okay, fine.” Taehyung holds his hands up like he’s defeated. “Deny all you want, but I bet the only people who haven’t actually done anything in this office is Y/N and like…” Simultaneously, everyone turns around to the back of the room, looking at Hoseok. The lawyer is unimpressed, one leg thrown over the other. He looks like a strict judge at a singing competition, hair swept over his brow in a comma motion and in a fitted suit like he’s ready to be broadcasted on national television, but also giving no fucks with what’s being presented before him. “This meeting is over. I hope you all paid attention and learned something, because I’m going to test you all on it.” Jimin laughs when everyone becomes petrified and he steps in before mass hysteria can spread like wildfire. “He’s joking. There’s no test. But Hoseok’s right. This seminar has gotten a little off topic. It’s time to get back to work, but please take the topic of discussion seriously.” He continues, doing a beautiful job of wrapping things up, “Any inappropriate behaviour in this firm will not be tolerated by Hoseok nor I. If you have any further questions or concerns, please come talk to Y/N, Hoseok, or me. It’s best to clarify any confusion, so that everyone is on the same page. With that being said, can we give a round of applause to Y/N for doing so well?” People clap for you, the thundering applauses reverberating and you become sheepish under the attention. “It’s nothing, really. But thank you for listening to what I have to say.” One by one, employees trickle out of the room. They’re chatting with each other, returning back to your desks and catching up on some work. On his way out, Taehyung grins at you. “That was fun, Y/N.” You hold your sigh. “Well, I’m glad.” “Thank you,” Inyoung murmurs as she walks past, modest smile still placed on her lips. “No problem.” Jungkook smiles and the rest of them also put in their few compliments and words of appreciation. Jimin is one of the last people and he actually stops. “Good job.” “I was nervous,” you admit, remote off the laptop still in your sweaty hands. “Couldn’t tell.” He grins, eyes crinkled into half moons. “It was your first time conducting a meeting, so don’t beat yourself over it. You’ll get better and better as time goes by. Plus, if it weren’t for you, I would have to conduct this seminar myself, so I’m once again thankful for your existence, Y/N.” “It’s nothing.” Your eyes fall to your feet. “It’s my job.” “And you’re good at it.” But for some reason, you seek someone’s praise in particular. You’re thankful for everyone’s positive feedback and their encouraging remarks, but it never feels like quite enough. It’s like you thirst and ache to hear it from someone who is much tougher in nature, who is naturally a critic. Only when you hear from him will you truly be satisfied and you know you’re not being spoon-fed by stretched truths. So, like the pathetic loser that you are, you hang around. You walk slowly to your laptop, closing the presentation, disconnecting the remote. And when you steal a peek at the corner of the room, Hoseok’s still seated, sending off a text message. It’s excruciating how desperate you are and the way you linger. Jung Hoseok is the last to leave and when he notices you’re still here, his brow lifts, as if asking if you have something to say. “I’m sorry.” It’s the first thing that pops into your head and spills off your tongue without much warrant. “It got out of control towards the end there.” “No, it happens. You don’t need to apologize.” The both of you walk together, exiting and going down the hall. “You...got your car fixed?” “I did,” the lawyer muses and glances at his watch like he’s late to something. “The battery got drained like I thought it did.” “That’s good. It would suck if there was something wrong with the engine or the tires. Maintenance on cars can be really bothersome and expensive.” Lame. It’s so lame how you’re ranting about car maintenance. But you can’t help the disappointment that leaks into your voice and spills all over your face. You really liked having a friend to go home with. It made time go by faster. And you just hope that he can’t read the look on your face right now. You’re sure you’re not doing a very good job with hiding your emotions. “Hey, Y/N.” He looks away from his phone, from his watch, from the end of the hallway to your profile. “Hmm?” His voice is soft and gentle, a small smile that expands over his face. “You did well.” One word from him is all it takes. Like the idiot that you are, an even bigger smile overwhelms you. “Thanks.” // With the seminar complete and the staff handbook well on its way, you decide to take a longer lunch break, hanging out in the lobby of the building and chatting with the security guard. While you’re still working with developing friendships in the office, you’ve become good friends with the older guard. He reminds you of your late grandpa or when you were in elementary school and no one really wanted to hang out with you, so you became close to the class pet goldfish. You’re standing near the front entrance, sipping on coffee as the guard drinks the cup you bought for him and he tells you about his weekend. He chats about how his son came over for barbecue and his wife made this pineapple pasta dish that was very delicious. And you’re about to respond when you hear a muffled— “Y/N?” There’s a woman on the other side of the glass windows, having stopped walking in the middle of the sidewalk. She knocks once on the window to get your attention. Her hair is long and sleek, a midnight shade that matches the colour of her irises. Her eyes are wide like a deer in headlights, lashes standing straight up to the sky, sharp jaw dropped. She stares at you. You stare at her. And the girl bolts in her high heels towards the doors. “Do you know her?” The guard asks just to be sure, hitching his thumb over his shoulder. “Y-yeah….I do…” Your eyes are on the woman’s and you watch as she scrambles inside, taking wide strides towards you. You don’t even bid goodbye to the guard, taking steps to meet the female in the lobby. “Sowon?” Without letting a squeak slip or another word spoken, her arms open all at once and she embraces your frame, squeezing you tight like a teddy bear. “Oh my god! I missed you so much. Huhuhghgh.” She makes weird sounds as she restrains you with her arms like she’s trying to pick you up, lug you around, giving you a good spin, but she’s not strong enough to. You can’t help the laughter that bubbles up your throat. “I missed you too.” The older girl parts away and scans you up and down several times. “How are you? You look great!” “Thank you.” You’re a bit breathless, finding her presence and everything that’s happened in the span of two minutes overwhelming. “I’m good.” “What…” She shakes her head like she can’t believe you’re actually here in front of her. “What are you doing here?” “I work here now.” “No. Really?” “Really.” // The cafe is quaint in the middle of the afternoon on a workday. The sunlight washes through the glass into the room, painting the surroundings in warm hues. There’s not too many people around, few conversations from customers here and there, but the murmur of sounds are relaxing to your ears. After already having two coffees for the day, you decide on a blueberry pastry and Sowon gets some kind of latte drink. She sits across from you, still looking at you in awe while you remain a bit uncomfortable under her constant gawking. “I never thought I would see you again.” “That’s what I thought too.” “I’m just surprised.” She gives you a soft smile. “And I’m glad that you’re here.” There’s a slight pause and you fiddle with your fingers in your lap. “I heard Hoseok got into an accident.” “Did he tell you about it?” “Yeah.” You hesitate, aware that she’s watching you carefully and with mustered courage, you take a deep breath and sit straighter, looking her dead in the eyes. “I really, really like my job. I’m working as an HR manager in the firm. It’s really fun to help out and tend to all the issues inside the office. I’m enjoying it a lot…” “And Hoseok’s okay with that?” She holds the cup in her hand, sipping while her eyes are still above the rim, eyeing you carefully. “He’s the one who hired me,” you tell her. “We’re professional.” Sowon hums with another smile and puts down her cup on the table. “Understood,” she sing-songs. “I’m just glad you’re doing well.” “Thank you.” It’s a soft murmur, but with that out of the way, you adjust the attention onto the woman. “How are things going for you?” “Pretty fantastic actually.” “Are you still at that magazine writing job?” “Oh, god no.” She takes a sigh of relief and you’re happy that she’s moved on since she dreaded the job back then. “I’m a wedding singer now.” You’re pleasantly surprised. “Really?” “Really. I love it.” There’s a bright grin that spreads into her cheeks, uncanny to her younger brother when he’s in a good mood. “I haven’t been better. Free and happy. And before you ask—” She leans over to whisper while the long strands of her hair cascade down and frame her face. “I dumped Yugyeom. Well, more like he dumped me because he was sleeping with my best friend and preferred her over me because I’m too...boring…” She shrugs. “But I was going to drop that hot potato anyway.” “I….see...” Any sympathy isn’t necessary since Sowon seems nothing but sincerely happy about it, so you can only bob your head to show you’re listening. “It’s so nice to see you again,” she muses and means it genuinely. “We should go out for dinner to catch up more. Better yet, you should come home. My parents miss you more than I do—” “I’m not sure that’s a good idea.” You look away unintentionally, nervousness grabbing hold to dictate all your actions. “I mean, isn’t visiting my boss’ parents during my free time a little weird?” Sowon scoffs, leaning back and crossing her arms. “No. You’re practically my sister, aren’t you? That trumps whatever Hoseok is to you.” You laugh and she eases, glancing at the labels of her paper cup. “But if you have free time...if you feel comfortable...you should visit them. They’re getting old.” “I’ll try.” You steal a glimpse at the screen of your phone, having felt it vibrate in your pocket. “I’m keeping you from something, aren’t I?’ “No, not really.” It’s not like you have much to do today. If anything, you were ahead of your own set schedule, but… “I’ve just been gone from the office for a while.” “If my brother is ever imposing on you or using his title of ‘boss’—” her fingers make air quotations. “—to bother you in any way, then just tell me and I’ll beat some sense into him.” “Okay.” Your cheeks ache from smiling so widely. “The kid thinks he’s such a hot shot now that he goes around bullying others without realizing.” A hopeless sigh spills from her lips. “Well, don’t let me hold you up. We should both get going.” “Oh, aren’t you coming with me?” “Nah. I was coming over to bother Hoseok, but I found something even better.” She smiles, indicating you. “So, I’m satisfied. I’ll probably head home.” “Are you sure?” “Yeha. He wouldn’t want to see me anyways. I know that kid.” She gets up and you both take your belongings, slowly leaving the warm cafe to the colder streets. “Don’t bother telling him I swung by either. Save him that stress.” “Okay.” Outside of the door, you hug her one last time and she holds onto you, patting your back in steady beats with the palm of her hand. “Promise me you’ll be okay,” she murmurs gently and you smile against her shoulder “I’ll be fine.” “Then don’t be a stranger.” She parts and gazes at you. “Keep in contact with me, alright, brat?” “Yes.” You giggle, bidding her a final goodbye. Her backside eventually fades off down the street and you’re sorely reminded of her brother whom she resembles so strongly that it shakes you inside. // Lost friends. Lost memories. It’s been so long that things begin to resurface despite years of pushing them away. You didn’t realize you missed her so much until you saw her and you begin to ponder about your other friends, the people that you used to be so close to until the life that you were so fond of was ripped away from your grasps. But you’re too afraid to reach out again. It’s dangerous to play the game of what if. What if things had been different back then. You wonder how much your life could’ve changed. Maybe you would have someone to go home to, maybe you wouldn’t have been so lonely, maybe you would be happier, maybe not. You really shouldn’t dwell on things that aren’t part of reality. But the encounter with Hoseok’s older sister leaves you reeling and you don’t even realize where you are. “Y/N?” “Yes?” Your daydream is broken and you force yourself to focus on the receptionist sitting across the desk from you. “Sorry, I was thinking about something else, but go ahead.” Dahyun glances behind her to the closed door and then clears her throat. “Does Hoseok hate me?” Your eyebrow lifts. “Why would you say that?” “He keeps glaring at me.” She points to both her eyes with her index and middle finger, whispering like he’s a monster who can hear behind solid walls. “Whenever I walk past or he walks past or I knock on his office, he has this glare.” “No, that’s not it,” you try to explain with a laugh. “That’s what he looks like when he’s concentrated or being serious. Trust me, he doesn’t hate you. Hoseok doesn’t hate anybody. It would take a lot to make him actually mad.” “Oh, okay.” Dahyun takes a sigh of relief. “I was worried he was upset with me.” Not long, you get another guest inside your office. “So last week, there was a file I was working on.” Sunyi is ranting again. For once, it’s not about Yoongi’s loud chewing or how she swears she can hear him trimming his toenails in his office and it’s absolutely disgusting. “And I asked Hoseok if a draft was necessary for the case. It’s more complicated than that, but that’s the basic gist. Anyways, he told me ‘no’, and then today he asks me why the draft wasn't done and that we need it! How ridiculous is that?!” “Maybe he’s just busy,” you attempt to appease her and expand her empathy. “Things can get pretty hectic. He probably just forgot and got confused.” “But he always blames others instead of himself. It’s so frustrating!” “Well, being the boss is tough. There’s a lot for him to juggle. I’m sure this is a misunderstanding.” “It’s not. He just never admits when he’s wrong.” “Did he apologize to you?” There’s a moment of silence. “Well, yeah, after I explained what happened.” You smile at the lawyer. “He’s a partner of this firm along with Jimin. The both of them have a lot riding on their shoulders and they have to uphold the name of this place. They’re the leaders of this firm. It’s probably difficult to admit their mistakes as the bosses since it would damage their own pride and shake the foundation of this place.” Sunyi shrugs, mumbling a mere ‘I guess’. But you know she’s thinking about what you’ve said. There seems plenty of concerns and worries today since you get yet another person sitting in your office, across from your desk. Kim Seokjin is undeniably handsome no matter what he does, though right now you can agree he’s seen better days. “He keeps micromanaging me! Every time I’m doing something, I feel him hovering over my shoulder and watching the screen of my computer like he’s trying to catch me do something wrong.” He groans, ranting and nagging, shaking his head and pounding his first on your desk, startling you to death. “Do you know how uncomfortable I feel on a daily basis?!” “He’s probably just doing his rounds. It’s part of the job as boss….” Your voice goes quiet at the way he looks at you. Seokjin’s arm falls to his side and his frown deepens. He leans over closer until half his body is pressed on the surface of your smooth desk. He looks at you like you’ve gone crazy. “Why are you defending him?” “What?” You blink. “I’m not.” “You are.” He tilts his head. “We usually always talk shit on Hoseok. Every. Day.” You’re beginning to sweat. “Well, it’s not good to talk badly about our bosses.” “Did he find out?” Jin’s eyes become wide. “No, no!” You quickly reassure the legal assistant. “What we talk in here is confidential.” “Then did you get in trouble?” “No, nothing like that. I’m just….trying to approach it from a different angle….less talking trash...you know?” “It’s strange,” he says, pouting slightly at how you don’t want to talk smack about Hoseok anymore. “No offence.” You hum before pulling out your emergency drawer. “Would you like a cookie?” Kim Seokjin grins, attention like a fish’s and successfully diverted. “Yes, please.” // Sometimes it feels more like you’re the complaint department or a counselor than an HR manager. You don’t mind since mediating and conflict resolution has always been your strongest skill set. But it’s difficult when you’re dealing with other people’s problems and no one helps you with yours. You even forget about your own issues. And yet, despite it going against your own mottos and what you were taught, it feels better to just bury those problems and forget them. There’s nothing like having a problem and pretending it’s not there right in your face. Ignoring is also part of your skill set. The knocks on your door break you out of your trance and you lift your head, finding an older woman standing at your doorway. “Do you have a moment, Y/N?” She smiles and you stand. “Of course! Please take a seat.” Kye Naul is one of the lawyers of the firm and you’ve haven’t been able to get many interactions with her when the others occupy your time a lot more. You know a few things about her, like how she’s one of the oldest people in the office, probably ten to twenty years older than you, and her sons have grown up and moved out of the house. She’s also the person who’s practiced law for the longest in the firm and both Jimin and Hoseok respect her greatly. She takes a seat across from the desk and you feel calm, reminded of your own mother’s presence. “I’m sorry. You were about to leave, weren’t you? It’s pretty close to five o’clock right now. I would've stopped by earlier, but I just finished billing five minutes ago.” “Oh no, it’s completely fine.” You smile. “Trust me, I don’t have anything to do after this, so feel free. I’ll just be at home watching television anyways. What’s the matter?” It isn’t a lie. Today is your off-day with your part-time job of taxi driving. “This might be inappropriate and unprofessional,” she prefaces. “It has nothing to do with the firm or the office. It’s about my marriage.” “It’s okay. Trust me, I’ve heard enough about people’s antics around here and what their odd hobbies are to be surprised or for it to be inappropriate.” She nods and inhales deeply. “My husband is having a midlife crisis.” “To put it shortly, we’re going through a rough patch because of it.” There’s a long pause. “He wants to buy a boat, move houses, hell, buy a house boat. He wanted to adopt a kid, a cat, a dog. He even tried convincing me to volunteer in a different continent for six months building mud houses for the elderly.” She sighs and pinches the bridge of her nose. “Have you ever had someone drive you absolutely insane?” “Yes.” You hold back a laugh, amused at hearing about her husband’s crisis. “I think everyone has at some point.” “How did you end up tolerating them?” “I don’t know,” you muse and a slight shrug follows. Someone specific comes to mind as you keep talking. “I guess I just cared so much that it didn’t matter to me if they were insane or completely crazy. I guess that makes me crazy too.” She exhales another breath and nods. “Love makes people do stupid things.” “Well…” You’re not sure where it comes from, but it stumbles from your tongue the moment you hear the four-letter word ‘love’. Immediately, you shake your head. “I’m not sure I would call it love.” “Oh?” Naul’s brow lifts in curiosity. “Then what is it?” “I don’t know. Definitely not love though.” You nod, so sure of yourself. This certain someone that you have in mind — you don’t love him. “It’s...a blindness.” “A disease?” The lawyer clarifies, eyes narrowing even more as she carefully watches you. “Sort of.” You can’t see it any other way. To be completely crazy for someone where you overlook flaws and have to sacrifice yourself. It’s blinding. It’s horrible. It’s painful. “I don’t think love should make you do stupid things. I don’t think that’s love.” Yet, the older woman only appears more and more amused. “Why do you say that?” “I can’t see how it’s love if you keep crawling back to someone and they keep hurting you over and over again. It’s just...a bad addiction at that point.” Your original stance in remaining unbiased is hurled out the window as you spill your truest beliefs out loud. The beliefs that formed over many long years from being jagged by someone you held... “It’s stupid to keep running back to them.” You repeat it in your head several times. “You’re right,” Naul says simply. “It isn’t love. Or at least, it isn’t just love.” Her wise eyes are glimmery like they know too much. The lawyer leans closer to you like she’s about to tell a secret. “It’s a selfless love. It’s an unconditional love. That’s why we tolerate them and keep coming back, even when they make us angry to the point we want to throw a lamp across the room. That’s why we don’t kick them out of the house at night and make them sleep on the couch instead. It’s unconditional love.” The lawyer continues, “Doing crazy things, things you thought you’d never do for anyone, allowing yourself to be vulnerable and accepting them back after getting hurt, that’s okay. It’s powerful to be that selfless. It’s still love, Y/N. It’s okay to feel this way. There’s no need to blame yourself and think it’s a bad addiction. God knows in a relationship patience, tolerance, compromise is required.” She smiles and when she speaks, it’s less for herself and more for you. “Now, if only unconditional love went both ways, then love wouldn’t have to turn toxic, now, would it? If selfless love was always reciprocated, no one would ever have to hurt.” “It’s harmful when it doesn’t go both ways and that’s when it needs to be stopped. If it does go both ways and you know that person would tolerate us too and wouldn’t mind being hurt….” She sighs softly. “Well, we just have to ask ourselves if the other person has unconditional love for us as well. Only then will we know that doing all these crazy things is worth it.” You’re speechless, not sure how to respond. Naul simply gets up from her chair, much calmer than she was when she first walked into the room. She must’ve decided that this was enough to help her, but before she can leave the room or bid a goodnight, you stop her. “Stay with him,” you say quickly while standing on your feet. The door is already parted and she turns to look at you. It’s as if your memories are flashing before your eyes and you are actually trying to talk to your past self. It’s as if you are attempting to alter history that cannot be changed. It isn’t Naul who stands in front of you anymore, but someone much different. “Or at least don’t decide anything on your own. Talk to him properly.” And the lawyer scoffs with a grin. “Of course I’m staying with him. He’s one of those people in my life that I’ll never be able to let go.” That same evening, Naul comes home to an apartment where her two brain-celled husband is flipping through grocery flyers on the kitchen floor. When he looks up at her, he smiles and tells her that they both ought to take up fishing since it’s apparently beneficial to their health and a very relaxing hobby. For now, he’s given up the idea of building mud houses near the jungle. But he also tells her that he’s already pre-purchased two very expensive fishing rods and by the way he slightly cringes, she knows he’s afraid she’ll become upset. But the woman simply sighs and leans down, wrapping her arms around his neck and kissing him silly. When he smiles against her lips, she parts and nods, finding fishing a great idea. In the meanwhile, you’re still left dwelling on the conversation. As you return to your empty home with nothing to do, you wonder how stupid you really are, how you keep crawling back, how you keep running for him, hanging onto every single of his words, how you can keep following him like some kind of loyal dog, even after being abandoned and kicked helplessly. More importantly, you wonder how you can never let go. It isn’t love. Selfless love. Unconditional love. Any of that. You refuse to believe such a thing. You refuse to believe you harbor such feelings. But — “You did well.” — one word from him is all it takes for everything you’ve known to crumble.

#bts fanfic #bts scenario #hoseok fluff #hoseok fanfic #jhope fanfic #BTS jung hoseok is the baby boy of the fam :']#OC who is in a crisis after talking to someone hella woke

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traitor-boyfriend · 6 years ago

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What is your honest opinion on Butters, as a character?

to me the case w butters is just really sad. over the years butters has gone from being exceptionally sweet and shy and gullible to being quite the bully. i know there’s a lot of argument about this – and butters has many faults of his own – but it’s really strange to see people demonize butters and think it has nothing to do w cartman, when butters’ personality evolution has a pretty direct correlation to how often and how many cartman/butters duo episodes there are. the more involved he’s been w cartman’s machinations, the more prominent those little details have become. and obviously this is not all about cartman but i think it’s the most significant.

butters isn’t really shown to have any real friends outside of stan, kyle, kenny, and cartman. in the earlier seasons all four of them were pretty mean little brats who included butters solely to take advantage of him but they’ve done a lot of changing since then. he apparently respects kenny quite a bit but they don’t interact a ton one-on-one beyond going native, and he’s mostly neutral toward stan and kyle. they defend butters when they see the others ganging up on him (albeit passively), but they act of their own volition and never go out of their way to include him and definitely view butters as something of an outsider in their group; cartman is the only one who really seems to want to be around butters. he doesn’t show butters much kindness or real concern (while cartman has, the occasions where he shows this w/out it being marred by something greater are few and far between) but butters is extremely loyal to cartman and cares a great deal for and about him. butters thinks cartman likes him, so he sticks by cartman, and i think a lot of cartman has in turn rubbed off on butters b/c of this. and this isn’t something that necessarily upsets me, either. whereas, say, season 5 butters and cartman could be considered foils (the case could be made to an extent that they still are) to each other they’re very much so mirror characters now. i think butters actually -is- what a lot of people think of cartman – just an isolated and traumatized kid w no one really looking out for him whose only manner of expressing it is by acting out

while liane certainly isn’t, like, a model of great parenting, she does provide very well for cartman. he has a relatively stable home life and for all her enabling she does want to see a change in cartman and his behavior and she does love him dearly. he has a level of personal autonomy and freedom that butters really doesn’t have. arguably butters has the most dysfunctional household (save for maybe kenny, but kenny certainly deals w his circumstances much better than butters). his father is a tyrannical evangelical patriarch and his mother mostly defers to him in the archetypal wait-till-your-father-gets-home kind of manner. neither of them are all too concerned about him for the most part; there’s an entire episode where linda attempts to murder him and the two conspire together to cover it up for the sake of their marriage. butters obviously has a lot of latent resentment for stephen; in the magic bush, when he’s convinced he’s in a simulation and can act however he wants w impunity, the first thing he does is physically assault his dad. being punished so often and so severely for what is almost always the most minor and insignificant of offenses. while cartman often perceives himself as being persecuted by liane – or anyone, really – for no reason beyond his own delusions, butters actually is being unfairly punished. there’s also butters’ extremely abusive grandmother; there really is nowhere for butters to escape. he suffers a lot of overt and implied abuse – verbal, emotional, physical, sexual etc.

looking at the evolution of his alter ego of professor chaos is interesting too. his first couple of appearances have him as just some bumbling wannabe villain but all his little schemes are really juvenile and innocent and comically ill-conceived – just seems a harmless outlet for the frustration and anger butters internalizes. time goes on and you see butters using it as an actual opportunity to carry out schemes w substantial thought (though they always soon fall apart) w intent to do, y’know, actual bad things. and i think the most recent few seasons really lean into butters embracing his role as a ‘villain’ of sorts; burning down the school, the whole wieners out thing, etc. butters can be really mean-spirited now, selfish and inconsiderate of the feelings of others whereas that is totally unlike, say, season 5 butters, who is always willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt and treat them w kindess regardless of if they’re deserving of it or not. he’s capable of real violence and real vindictiveness when before they were only fantasy

butters is extremely naive and trusting and while that makes him a wonderful character to sympathize w it also makes him the perfect victim to cartman’s manipulation. and repeat manipulation like that ultimately becomes conditioning. this is most evident i think in the way butters treats kyle; he seems to dislike kyle significantly more than he does stan even though there’s no real reason for him to and i don’t think there’s really any way to argue against the fact that it’s b/c he constantly has cartman buzzing in his ear. cartman very often uses butters as his lackey in tormenting kyle, and on several occasions has butters entertain the use of antisemitism to get under his skin to the point where butters, after having played along w/out any genuine malice or real awareness of what he’s saying, no longer needs cartman to coach him in how to do it. butters has made several underhanded slights about kyle being jewish all on his own (pretty sure there was even one in the catholic church episode this season when kyle tells him no one wants to hear about jesus at a birthday party and butters says something to the effect of “well, of course you don’t.”) butters is also a character w a lot of unexpressed anger, so when the final button is pushed he tends to explode, and pretty badly at that.

the most interesting thing to me as of late is that butters is able to operate independent of cartman now in his own schemes and plots. butters used to be extremely timid and would avoid confrontation of any kind, while butters currently has no problem making himself and his opinions heard and doesn’t crumble when he finds himself in a capricious spotlight. cartman has emboldened a lot of confidence in butters.

so you have butters routinely ostracized and abused by his family, his peers, and the people who are supposed to be his friends. if they’re not the ones doing it, they’re looking the other way. his hyper-empathetic nature and unwavering trust in others has only betrayed him and the only person who shows him any sort of attention is often only looking to get something out of it, so he’s leaned into that now. basically my summation of butters’ character now as opposed to when he first began to get regular screen time is that, as the saying goes, a hit dog will holler

#sorry this became a bit long #i said some things about this on twitter a few weeks ago so i just elaborated on that

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tigerlover16-uk · 7 years ago

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Mind clarifying that last post?

(This is in regards to a short post I did earlier saying how Future Mai in DBS was treated with a lot more respect and was less objectified than Pan was in Dragon Ball GT, in case anyone’s wondering. I wasn’t able to write this response straight away).

Pan is technically the secondary protagonist of GT, considering she’s the one that gets the most screentime after Goku, continuing to have a seemingly prominent role even after Trunks had been demoted to extra. But she never actually does anything to justify it.

In an interview that was recently translated, which I’ll link below, the writers of the show admitted that the role they planned out for Pan was to be beaten up by the villains so Goku would look stronger by comparison. It shows.

In episode 5, the climax to a mini-arc starting off the first saga, Pan attempts to attack the villain of the episode… but then immediately gets trapped in some kind of forcefield or something. Admittedly Trunks also gets one-shot by the guys bodyguard before Goku fights him, but the trend continues for Pan’s future appearances. During the Machine Mutants arc it looks at one point after grieving over Giru’s apparent betrayal that Pan was going to do something to fight the villains herself… only to soon after get captured anyway, and it’s Trunks and Giru who end up saving the day.

During the Baby saga she gets beat up pretty much every time she gets into an action scene, usually by her own possessed father, and her own plans to try and save the day end up failing pitifully and she needs to be rescued by Uub or Goku at various points.

While she got to blow up a few people from the Red Ribbon Army in the Super 17 saga (Hardly an impressive feat though, considering how weak they are at this point), her only active attempt to save the day where she took Dr Gero hostage ended up being for nothing as Dr Myuu was a backstabbing coward, and then Pan was helpless against Super 17 of course.

In the Shadow Dragons saga she does beat up on Haze Shenron at first, but then gets subjected to Haze Shenron’s toxic mist that strips her and Goku of their power, making it look like she almost screwed them both over by not just finishing the otherwise joke villain off right away instead of just throwing a fit and wailing on him for the sake of it because he insulted her.

Then later in the saga she gets taken as a hostage by both Naturon and Eis Shenrons, and does pretty much nothing of value in the final battle against Omega Shenron, with it being Vegeta, who’s only actual role in GT up to this point was to get body-jacked by Baby, gets to go super Saiyan 4 to try and help out.

The only times Pan gets to be all that helpful in battle are against Lord Luud and Oceanus Shenron, and in both instances it’s alongside Goku, so she never gets a serious fight that she wins by herself (And honestly, Goku never even powers up that far against Oceanus Shenron, and both characters are borderline filler villains anyway), and they’re both followed up by really bad worfing in the episodes after, so any attempt to make Pan seem relevant or dependable rings hollow.

The only truly significant contributions Pan makes is in helping Golden Great Ape Goku get a grip on himself and thus becoming super Saiyan 4, and then helping power a weakened Goku up again with the other part-Saiyan characters while Majuub stalls Baby. That’s Pan’s moment of glory as the secondary protagonist, helping a male character gain a transformation. And don’t get me wrong I loved that scene, it’s one of the best in GT and very touching, but it’s systematic of how Pan is treated throughout the series.

Because aside from that, she isn’t treated with a ton of respect. She’s portrayed as a whiny brat who keeps trying to prove herself when people tell her to stay out of things, but she ends up often causing more trouble as a result of that and things only working out for the best purely by coincidence, like her causing the spaceship to crash land on the planet Giru was on. She frequently has to be rescued despite being overconfident in her own abilities.

Episode 15 has her run away from the group into a scorching desert planet when she finds out that Trunks and Goku are quite understandably planning to drop her off at earth and switch her out with Goten now that they know there are villains after the Dragon Balls, which nearly gets Pan killed via heat exhaustion and giant man-eating insects that Giru has to rescue her from.

And then at the end of the episode, Trunks says he was wrong for thinking of sending her back to earth and allows her to stick around on the basis of “Hey, you found us the dragon ball and an oasis”, which Pan explicitly points out that GIRU found, she wasn’t even looking!

The episode tries to end on a note of Pan proving herself somehow and that she is dependable, when the actual content had her proving without a doubt that NO, she is NOT responsible, NOT capable of looking after herself and that Trunks was RIGHT to want to send her back to earth. It completely undermines her character arc beyond redemption, and makes Trunks and Goku look like irresponsible IDIOTS who think it’s okay to drag incompetent CHILDREN into battle, which is just full of so many unfortunate implications.

The most actual development she gets throughout the series is that she gradually becomes less bratty as time goes on, but even then none of the other problems are addressed.

In fairness, every other character in the show that isn’t Goku suffers a similar problem of not accomplishing much and getting easily beat up so Goku can do most of the fighting that matters, but it’s really noticeable with Pan in that she’s apparently meant to be of similar prominence in the cast to Gohan in Z.

Think of it, Gohan’s moment of glory in DBZ was going super Saiyan 2 and defeating Cell, and despite not being able to beat Super Buu he still gets some decent fights and good character growth in the Buu saga. And plenty of decent development throughout the show as a whole.

Or even take Vegeta in Super, where he’s the secondary protagonist of that show. Vegeta in Super got to go super Saiyan blue purely through training really hard, thus one-upping Goku who initially reached the power of the gods through a ritual. He defeated 3 people from the universe 6 team in the Champa saga and gained Hit’s respect for lasting longer against him than any other opponent he’d fought, got some decent moments towards the end of the Future Trunks saga where he briefly overpowered Goku Black, and then in the universe survival saga he got to take out half of universe 9 alongside Goku, eliminate a number of other minor opponents, before ultimately defeating Toppo, a newly-ascended GOD OF DESTRUCTION. I have my issues with how the last one was carried out, but you can’t say his contributions were minor or not impressive.

Pan doesn’t get nearly as good character development as either Gohan or Vegeta, certainly not as good as Goku, she never even goes super Saiyan, and she’s pretty much shown to be a burden outside of a few cases despite the show trying to go “Well, actually”, and her ultimate role in the grand scheme of things amounts to emotional support (Gee, a female lead who’s main role is to prop up a man. Nothing iffy about this, huh fellas?). And meanwhile, other characters like Uub and Vegeta are the ones who get to have transformations and significant fights with main villains, even if they do amount to pretty much nothing in both cases.

And beyond that, she’s weirdly sexualized at various points. Re-watching the subs for the Black Star saga, I’ve noticed an odd number of shots where the camera seems to linger on her butt momentarily, with her pants being oddly form fitting. There’s that disturbing scene later on in the saga where Pan gets outright turned into a doll, and Dolltaki starts playing with her and even tries to undress her, with Pan freaking out because he’ll “Ruin her as a wife”, and the creep even tries to kiss her when they’re trapped inside Luud. And then there’s that weird scene in the baby saga where a deer starts trying to nurse from her. And she’s NINE in this series.

Considering there was also a scene where two adult men were hitting on Bulla, I get the impression that someone on the writing staff might have been on the creepy side.

Honestly altogether, Pan’s portrayal is pretty horrible and disrespectful for a character who really deserved a lot better than what she got.

Contrast that with Future Mai, who despite being a non-powered human is surprisingly more competent and useful for how she’s written in the Future Trunks Saga of Super. While she needs saving on occasion, she pulls Trunks as well as Goku and Vegeta’s butts out of the line of fire just as often as Trunks saves her, and is proactive in trying to help take down Goku Black.

When her attempt to snipe Black with a high-powered energy blast fails for example and Trunks shows up to fight him, she takes another shot at Black that creates an opening for Trunks to start beating up on him. She gets multiple moments where she gets to help out, and she’s also responsible for looking out for the remaining civilians of the Future timeline when Trunks isn’t around or incapacitated.

Despite being a love interest for Future Trunks, Mai is still competent and her main priorities aren’t on Trunks, their romantic chemistry is downplayed since she’s dedicated to protecting the future earth and it’s people, and she’s written as competent, brave, selfless and is treated by respect by the resistance soldiers who all seem to take orders from her.

For her role in the story, the show treats her with a good deal of dignity and she’s allowed to be proactive. She’s probably a good go-to example of how you can have a non-super powered supporting character in Dragon Ball still be useful to both the action and the overall narrative of a story. Oh, and also, she doesn’t suffer from any creepy sexualisation like Pan does!

I’m not saying the writing for Future Mai was perfect or anything, for one thing she feels more like an original character a lot of the time since they don’t really bring up her past or connection with the Pilaf Gang outside of one joke, and the romance with her and Future Trunks could have been built up a little more (Though it’s still at least a lot less squicky than the thing with present Trunks and “Kid” Mai. Ick), but she was at least treated with dignity.

The only reason I wrote that snarky post comparing the two is because Mai shows how pathetically easy it is to write a female character respectfully, while GT Pan is like the ultimate example of how to screw things up with a female protagonist. It’s honestly some of the worst character writing I’ve seen in this franchise, I’d say she was the worst example period but that’s debatable considering how badly Uub was also mishandled in that show.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-gt-dragon-book-gt-back-then-kozo-morishita-interview/

#dragon ball gt #dragon ball super #son pan #pan #future mai #mai #pilaf gang #dbs #dragon ball #dbgt

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hellyeahheroes · 7 years ago

Text

Why I don’t like Spider-Gwen

Edit: Decided to move this response towards this blog because I want to have a discussion about this.

This is a response to this question.

“May I ask why you dislike Spider-Gwen? Is it the writing, or her world? Or is it down to her personality or even the idea of her? I'm just curious since you wanted to avoid getting into it in the big post.”

@fightlikeashehulk

It is a combination of those things, but I’ll split each up for the sake of clarity.

Also, I don’t care that Spider-Gwen is a woman. Just to be clear.

Narrative problems:

The parallel meanings of Peter Parker’s death to significant death in the Spider-man mythos or more specifically her death in 616 is not structurally congruent. Gwen’s death to Peter did not motivate him to be Spider-man. It is a constant demotivator for being so as it is that constant fear that his loved ones can and will get caught in the crossfire it is incidental or not. Gwen had to become significant for Peter and the reader to become effective. Using Peter as a motivator or a stand-in for Uncle Ben would work if Peter’s significance actually mirrored what Uncle Ben was to Peter as Peter was to Gwen. But Peter isn’t.

Quite frankly, Peter sounds like a jealous dickhole and borderline type of kid who would be a school shooter. And again, I get that his limited introduction is supposed to mirror Uncle Ben’s initial introduction to Spider-man fans as the post-humous guy, but what made Uncle Ben work is that you see his influence throughout Spider-man. You see it in his arc-words of the series, “With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility” something of which almost every Spider-person embodies. Uncle Ben is Peter’s father-figure. Peter is just some boy at high school who shared a common love of music. Maybe it would help more that I actually know who exactly Peter was in the first place because the little that was shown is not doing it. Yes, it is sad, but really get over it.

Also, I don’t see how his death is her fault exactly or why it is such a big deal. Nothing Peter did reflects a lack of character on her part.

Then there is the whole purpose as to why she is Spider-Gwen in the first place. So far, it was she got superpowers, dicked around with them, and heard an annoyed aside from her father about her wasting her potential combined with Peter’s death. I already said does not mean shit to me or is not nearly as significant as Gwen makes it out to be other than the fact it is why she is a fugitive to begin with. This just does not seem like a sufficient reason to be Spider-Woman.

Don’t get it twisted. I like that Gwen is not exactly like Peter was in that she is not a book nerd, or a social recluse with anxiety. She is not being bullied or anything and MJ is like her overly ambitious friend who can be a bit harsh. I like that she is part of a rockband in that she likes music. I find that interesting and one of her great twists. However, I would be remiss to say that it does not resemble 616 Gwen’s character in the least is not a problem for me. I know it is an alternate universe, but if this Gwen is just Gwen in name only then what exactly is the point of her? She is no different than Anya or Cindy Moon. And this leads to meta-reasons as to why I do not like Spider-Gwen.

Meta Problems:

Okay, so this is where I sound bitter.

Miles Morales had to be well-thought out and reflect an entire culture and means a lot in terms of social commentary. Miles Morales is the product of probably one of Bendis’s most inspired writing, and sure, it seems like he ran out of ideas for the character at the mid-point, but it says something that Miles became a household name by the sheer quality of his comics alone in an age where comic books are a dying medium. Anya can’t say that. Mayday Parker could say that if it weren’t for her being bogged down with the very unwanted Clone Saga business. Miguel O’Hara can’t say that. In fact the last one definitely can’t because what people attribute to O’Hara is his depiction in Shattered Dimensions which not only did not resemble his actual character, but had little of his actual villains or plot.

But I digress. Miles had to win over the crowd with sheer quality and story-telling in the face of massive criticism and him being unfairly dubbed as the Affirmative Action Legacy of Spider-man. Do you know how many times Miles was unfairly associated as the SJW Spider-man when the character has little to do with those terms and is just black? Miles constantly is a celebration to everything Peter Parker was about and his past deeds because the sheer absence of Spider-man inspired some kid who never knew him to take up the mantle.

Spider-Gwen just existed off of some harebrained concept from the mind that made Silk into a character’s whose entire purpose is that she can’t keep her hands off Peter Parker because pheromones. In fact, she could have been a completely different character than the actual Gwen Stacy and actually have an origin that makes Peter Parker sound like a brat which is defamation of his character at the most. If she doesn’t resemble Gwen in the slightest, then why did Spider-Gwen take off and Anya Corazon didn’t? Why is she getting this attention and not the first Spider-girl,May Parker?

And I seen this shit before honestly. I have seen it with Spoiler, Stephanie Brown, when she took over Batgirl in place of Cassandra Cain, a far more interesting character who just happened to be Asian with a serious case of dyslexia. I have seen it with Barbara Gordan who suddenly gained the ability to walk again to become Batgirl again and get met with instant adulation over Cassandra Cain who literally embodied Batgirl more than Babs ever did. Cain got pushed aside and literally was put on the shelf for years at the expense of Cass Cain fans.

Then there is Kate Bishop. I love Kate Bishop, but she literally overshadowed Eli because she was a white woman. She overshadowed her gay teammates as the sole heteronormative character and gets obscene amount of adulation from those fangirls who see her as this force to the point that it is common narrative that she is the better Hawkeye. And this is the reason why I don’t want her to appear in Into the Spider-verse. Because the moment she does, white girls are going to milk this shit to the ground and Miles gets overshadowed in his own fucking movie. I am not worried about Peter doing this. I am more worried about Gwen.

It took Miles 3 years to even get an appearance outside of comic books. 3 years. It took Gwen 1 with an ill-defined world and plot at the time. It took Anya over a decade. And Spider-girl, May Parker has yet to even achieved that. Miles is one of the 3 minority characters to have over a single 80+ unbroken issue run with him as the solo character. The other two are Cassandra Cain and Shang-Chi. Gwen barely broke 30. Characters of color literally have to go beyond the impossible to garner a modicum of success and maintain. Gwen just literally had to exist. That is all she had to do.

Miles is still being constantly scrutinized, but Gwen…naw people love her. And then there is the facile couch feminist analogue that annoys me because it is so see-through. The one where women die in comic books to be apart of a man’s mangst? Spider-Gwen is not even a proper commentary of that. It is a very poor one for reasons already stated in the “narrative” part of this post. And also, such dialogue about the Night Gwen Stacy died demeans the aforementioned work as a whole. Using TNGSD as this beacon to the shoddy sexist bullshit that has plagued comic books for years is insulting to every Spider-man fan out there.

I hope this illustrates why I do not like Spider-Gwen and I hope you appreciate that in spite not liking the character at all, I did my best to do the character justice.

@ubernegro

#Spider-Gwen #Ghost-Spider #Marvel Rising: Secret Warriors #Spider-man #Marvel #Marvel Comics #Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse

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redqueenmiku · 7 years ago

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Lore Study: How Evil are the Cartoon Koopalings?

So, I just got a comment on DeviantArt referring to the Koopalings from the Mario cartoons. At face value, it doesn't really look like much, but it reads:

I think Hip and Hop were the least sinister of the bunch.

So, since lore study is basically my thing at this point, I decided to try to see how true that statement actually was...so I actually did a lore study on the cartoons.

Basically, I'm ranking all of the cartoon Koopalings based on their...evilness?......Yeah, we're going with that.

So, how I'm going to be doing this is I'll be looking at every single episode of both cartoons the Koopalings were featured in and make my judgements thusly. I'm also going to be going in order based on my own headcanon ages for these guys starting with the one I theorize to be the oldest (that way Hip and Hop will be last because I want them to be special).

While putting all of this together, I was actually surprised by the amount of care DiC put into making each Koopaling completely unique in the way they act out an evil scheme based on their personalities (that's counting Hip and Hop as the same character since they both basically act as a singular unit). I was also impressed by the way that DiC was able to make the Koopalings seem like individual villains in their own rights rather than tying them down as minions of Bowser, something I wish Nintendo would do more of nowadays (read: the Koopalings in Color Splash were great do it again).

But enough of that. It's time to get to what you all came here for. Let's get started.

BULLY

Bully doesn't really show up in major roles a lot. He's had major roles in, like, four episodes throughout both series. The more I looked into him, though, he scarier he became. Besides one point where he thinks vandalizing the Great Wall of China was somehow conducive to taking over Asia, he's actually pretty competent. Pair that with the fact that he often resorts to violence and he's not even above hurting his own allies in pursuit of his goals and you get something truly terrifying. It's also shown in the episode “Do the Koopa” that he'll even try to overthrow his own father given the opportunity. His schemes are never flowery, always getting straight to the point without a lot of preparation and he often relies on his brute strength to get the job done for him.

CHEATSY

If you thought Bully was scary, then get ready for Cheatsy. While not as directly physically harmful, Cheatsy is definitely a much more significant threat. Bowser most often relies on Cheatsy for plans, and there's definitely a reason for that. Cheatsy is an evil mastermind, coming up with elaborate evil plans on the fly. He's not above any kind of dirty behavior (to include straight-up trying to kill people) and he's horrifically sadistic. He also works for his own gain, often working above even his own father's head and he'll turn on his father in a heartbeat if it's in his best interest. It's likely that he thinks he's a better villain than his father, as he tends to become snarky if a plan isn't working quite right and will essentially take over if he feels he has a better plan.

KOOTIE PIE

Kootie Pie is nothing if not vain, selfish, and greedy. She wants what she wants when she wants it no matter what the cost and will throw catastrophic tantrums if it doesn't happen. She rarely ever takes a direct role in a scheme, preferring to let others do her dirty work for her. Her greed often blows up in her face, though, as she tends to either bite off more than she can chew or let her incompetence screw everything up. Some of the things she wants are also either entirely petty in the grand scheme of things or wanted for extremely petty reasons.

KOOKY

Despite his name and people's common perceptions of him, Kooky isn't actually as insane as he looks. He always knows what he's doing and he knows the capabilities and limits of his inventions perfectly, right down to chastising his own father for overloading them. When presented with a situation, he can always come up with some kind of scientific idea to overcome the problem. He also has a LOT of applicable knowledge on most every situation he's presented with. In fact, his amount of knowledge is downright uncanny. He tends to stay in the background a lot of the time, letting his inventions do the talking for him and he's most often seeing working alongside others (which is mostly Bowser and Cheatsy). In fact, because of their personalities and strengths, Cheatsy and Kooky actually work very well together.

BIG MOUTH

Big Mouth is another Koopaling who is rarely ever seen on his own. The thing about Big Mouth, though, is that he's not really all that bright (and I really don't know how I missed out on that fact the first time around because it's REALLY obvious). Out of all of the Koopalings, Big Mouth is directly involved in the least amount of schemes, even behind Hip and Hop. When he is seen actually doing things, it's either on someone else's orders or it's stuff like terrorizing penguins or holding up his own siblings. He talks way too superfluously for his own good, often getting on everyone's nerves (especially his own family's) and he's dumb as a sack of rocks. If anything, Big Mouth is more often a detriment than he is a help, but he does have his small moments...

HIP AND HOP

Here's the fun part, because I get to tell you all that Hip and Hop actually AREN'T the least sinister Koopalings. While it's true that Hip and Hop seem innocent at first glance and they get very easily scared, they definitely aren't the cute little cinnamon rolls people make them out to be. Hip and Hop are actually major brats. They love to pull pranks on people, but those pranks can quickly become dangerous (the SMW episode “A Little Learning” is a great example of this, as they chase children around with fireballs, switch a kid's science project out with a Piranha Plant, and destroy the school with lava). They don't seem bothered by the danger, though. In fact, they seem to enjoy seeing people run in fear from them. They've also openly stolen things with no qualms and agreed with their father that lying is an admirable trait. While it's nowhere near the levels that Cheatsy and Bully get, they're certainly not to be underestimated.

So, what's the final ranking? I'd say Cheatsy would definitely be first, followed by Bully, Kooky, Kootie Pie, Hip and Hop, and, finally, Big Mouth. They're definitely all evil without a doubt, but it's clear that some are more evil than others.

It's really easy to underestimate the Mario cartoons and, with poor animation and plots as ridiculous as these shows get, it's easy to see why. If there's one thing they did right, though, it's forming some really interesting characters and the Koopalings are DEFINITELY no exception.

...just never make me watch the SMW cartoon again because that one's the worst.

#lore study #The Adventures of Super Mario Bros 3 #Super Mario World (cartoon)#Koopalings #Bully Koopa #Cheatsy Koopa #Kootie Pie Koopa #Kooky von Koopa #Big Mouth Koopa Jr.#Hip Koopa #Hop Koopa #headcanons #i actually had to watch half the SMW series for the first time for this #never let me do that again i almost died

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hansoloschubbybrother · 7 years ago

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The Last Jedi

In light of such split opinion among the fan base, here are my (extremely lengthy) thoughts on Star Wars: The Last Jedi. It obviously contains spoilers, so do not read past the cut if you don’t want to know what happens in the film.

Put simply, I thought The Last Jedi was great. As always, after watching it for the first time, I came out thinking it was absolutely amazing but after some time to think and in this case, a second watch, I have been able to collect my thoughts about what I both liked and disliked.

The first thing that strikes me is that many of the fans who seem to dislike the film are those who have either enjoyed the expanded universe (now legends) stories or are the type to spend time between movies speculating on character back stories and lineage, etc. Despite being a massive Star Wars fan, I am neither of those things and I think this has maybe allowed me to enjoy the film more. I did not go into the film having already enjoyed other versions of the events after ROTJ and I haven’t invested much time getting excited about a specific hope for any character’s story arc. I have generally been patient and waited to see what Rian Johnson and Disney came up with.

I will go through each of the main characters and give my opinion on their story arc in the film and then go through some other things that I both liked and disliked.

First up is Snoke. Introducing someone so powerful with the force was bound to bring speculation as to who he is and what his connection is to the characters from the original trilogy. His minimal screen time in TFA, also suggested he was going to be the new Palpatine and become the big bad guy as the new trilogy developed. So, killing him off mid-way through TLJ was a big shock, especially to anyone who enjoyed the prospect of what he might become. I can see why they would be disappointed but, whilst I was shocked that they killed him off, I was actually pleased. For me, Snoke was Palpatine 2.0. Initially mysterious, disfigured, powerful with the force, and basically Palpatine without the cloak. Snoke was a comfortable fit for a Star Wars film. He is one of the reasons TFA felt so much like a true Star Wars film. It hit all the right tropes that were needed to make fans feel nostalgic and fall back in love with Star Wars again. I suspect fans of Snoke were disappointed that Johnson wasn’t happy to let his character play out as everyone expected and have some big face off at the end of episode 9. This would have been comfortable and felt very Star Wars but killing him off so soon made things uncomfortable and left you uncertain as to who the main bad guy is. This uncertainty was a plus for me, rather than a disappointment.

The identity of Rey’s parents has been much debated over the last two years. To have them revealed as nobodies, probably left a big hole for those excited by the idea that she is a Kenobi or a Skywalker, etc. Again, as with Snoke, I enjoyed the fact that Johnson wasn’t happy to just go with the obvious and choose parents that would make everyone feel warm and fuzzy and make things fall easily into place. Coming from nothing to be a hero was a key theme of the original trilogy, so making Rey a nobody is still very much in keeping with what Star Wars is about. I would also add that, when Kylo Ren said this, he had every reason to tell her what he thought she needed to hear in order to make her join him and, therefore, every reason to lie if she is in fact a Skywalker or a Kenobi or whatever. Johnson spent quite a lot of time on the issue of Rey’s parents when she was on Ahch-To in the hall of mirrors thing and in discussions with Kylo Ren. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if her real parents become a big reveal in episode 9. As for the rest of her story arc, I really enjoyed the connection with Kylo Ren and how their uncertainty about the force and about the dark and light sides was a reflection of each other but from opposite sides and gave them a reason to feel close to each other.

This brings me neatly on to Kylo Ren. Kylo Ren was my favourite character introduced in TFA. Many people thought he was a poor man’s Darth Vader then and are still saying that he’s no Darth Vader after this film. I thought it was great when Snoke said that he was no Darth Vader in TLJ. A nod to the fact that they don’t want him to be just another Darth Vader. I don’t really understand why people seem to want the old characters rehashed just with new names and different outfits. I liked the fact that Kylo Ren was an unhinged, conflicted brat in TFA. It would have been easy to switch off the unhinged brat from TFA and make him a straight down the line bad guy in TLJ, but Johnson continued his trend of not wanting to fall into easy Star Wars tropes of good and evil and continued the development of the character. The fact that he isn’t just able to choose a side easily and be totally comfortable with it is everything that Anakin’s switch to the dark side in ROTS wasn’t. I hated the fact that Anakin was so easily turned to the dark side in ROTS. It should have been the main thread of that film but it actually took just a couple of minutes after one conversation with Palpatine.

The one disappointment that I can get on board with, is the non-appearance of the Knights of Ren. With Kylo Ren having been identified as the Master of the Knights of Ren and with them shown in Rey’s flashes when she picked up Luke’s lightsabre in TFA, you understand that they are a significant part of Kylo Ren’s story. I was very much looking forward to them being introduced in some way in TLJ. The fact they there weren’t was disappointing but didn’t impact my enjoyment of the film. It was interesting that the identity of the other Knights was suggested to be a few of the other trainee Jedi at Luke’s academy. The fact that this information was included gives me hope that they might still make an appearance in episode 9.

Luke’s story arc in the film seems to have caused the most derision. Someone who was once a hero across the galaxy but ended up being responsible for the creation of Kylo Ren and subsequently the breakup of his sister’s marriage to his best friend, is bound to have issues. TFA was built around this premise. Luke hid himself away out of the shame he felt. If the appearance of a complete stranger was enough to make him forget all about that and suddenly become the hero of the original trilogy, it would dismiss the story they created for him just to ensure he is exactly the same Luke that everyone loved in the original trilogy. Having Luke be the man TFA created was by the far the best way to take his character. Having the man, who once represented everything good about the force and the Jedi Knights, question his faith made for a far more interesting story arc. I also enjoyed immensely how first Chewbacca, then Leia’s old recording to Obi-wan and finally Yoda were gradually able to bring back the hero from the original trilogy. I have read people describe Luke as a coward in TLJ. I don’t see that at all. I see a damaged man finally return to the man he once was and save the day at the end of the film. He then joins his Jedi brothers in a moving scene as his tune plays with twin moons setting in the background. I thought it was a fitting end. Some people have also said that Luke would never think about killing Ben Solo as he was the man who saw the good in Darth Vader. I don’t agree with this analysis either. Realising that a good man is losing control and turning to the dark side is the opposite side of the same coin to seeing the tiniest of light in a bad man. Luke knew what Ben Solo would become if he continued down the path he was on and it would be a perfectly natural reaction to think about killing him for the greater good for a fleeting moment. The one element that I didn’t enjoy about Luke was some of the comedy they added. Tossing the lightsabre at the beginning seemed to cheapen a poignant moment and I’m not sure milking the alien cow was necessary but these are possibly the kind of moments that children enjoy.

As for Leia, her story arc was pretty much as expected, although it did provide the worst bit of the film for me. After being thrown into the vacuum of space and suddenly waking up, using the force to get back to the ship was pretty awful. In light of her sad passing, it was an opportunity to end her story there. I can see why they didn’t though, as it wouldn’t have been much of a send-off. I just wish they had left it with Kylo Ren unable to shoot her so that we didn’t have to have that bit. They have confirmed that they will not use a CGI Leia in episode 9, so it will be interesting to see how they explain her absence in the next film.

On first viewing, I thought Finn’s story was a bit of a waste of time. I wish they could have found a better, more integral way of getting him, and the enjoyable new characters Rose and DJ, on to Snoke’s ship. I did however, enjoy their story once they were on the ship and especially Finn’s fight with Captain Phasma. On second viewing, one aspect of their story that didn’t really sink in first time round was how it wanted Finn to question if there was a difference what side he was on. Having defected from the First Order, this was a very important aspect of Finn’s character but his arc in TLJ, whilst obviously ending up on the right side, was better second time around as I was better able to appreciate the whole no side is the right side in a war narrative.

As for the rest of the character’s, Poe was great at the start and the end but was a little meh through the middle and, whilst I’m kind of glad they made Hux a bit of a joke, his character remains as pointless as it was in TFA.

This film introduced several new ways in which the force was used. Snoke connected Rey and Kylo Ren and Luke was able to project himself from Ahch-To all the way across the galaxy without anyone knowing he wasn’t actually there. Some viewers bemoan such changes in the way we know how the force can be used but when we were kids and the force went from a choking device to a mind trick to being able to guide your actions without seeing, etc we never cared that there wasn’t some additional explanation as to how they can actually do that when they couldn’t before. We just accepted it and it laid the foundation for what we believe a Jedi/Sith can do now. With these things, I think we just have to go with the flow and let our inner child accept it rather than our adult mind demand an explanation.

As for the overall story, it was a little odd that the First Order decided to wait for the Resistance fleet to run out of fuel rather than just call on more of their huge fleet of ships to help obliterate them but these are the kind of things you have to look past to enjoy any movie like this. Just like BB-8 driving the AT-ST. A little unfeasible but kids probably loved that bit. I particularly liked how the story left the Resistance in such a dire situation. Throughout the other Star Wars films, despite the Empire/First Order supposedly being this huge super power, the Rebels/Resistance never feel like their existence is truly threatened. Not so much anymore. The end shot of a just a handful of rebels left to carry the fight gave a real David and Goliath feel. It means that the starting point of episode 9 is a slightly different one to any of the other films.

In summary, despite a few niggling issues with the story of some of the characters and some of the comedy feeling a little forced (no pun intended), I thoroughly enjoyed The Last Jedi, especially for the way it was prepared to break with what would feel comfortable or obvious. By choosing not to fall into easy Star Wars character tropes and throw away some of the groundwork laid by a very nostalgic The Force Awakens, I felt Rian Johnson created the Star Wars film that was needed to ensure the new trilogy actually adds something different to the series.

#thanks if you actually read all of this #waaay to long #the last jedi

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hereayourmirrors · 4 years ago

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Secret Garden

I know, I know, it's an assignment book, but I will still include it in my reading log, and I do this because while reading this I had all sorts of questions. So let us dive into our small Q&A session

Q.#1 Why does the author dislike Mary so much?!

It is not really hard to figure out that the author hates Mary at least at the beginning. This poor girl has ALL the qualities to be disliked and even hated by the reader. Almost at the beginning of the book, we get a pretty explicit description of Mary:

So when she was a sickly, fretful, ugly little baby she was kept out of the way, and when she became a sickly, fretful, toddling thing she was kept out of the way also. [1, p. 2]

It seems like the author doesn't miss any chance he gets to accentuate how ugly and disgusting she is in every way possible. She has no manners, she hits people, she waits for everybody to do everything for her and doesn't even think to say please or thank you. Nobody really likes her, and the author seems to coerce the reader to despise her, but I rejected that position. Why do I have to hate the poor girls, who got half-raised by Indian servants and never truly belonged to anybody? Why do I have to hate Mary for her lack of obedience and manners if she has never been taught how to behave?

I don't think I have an answer, although there is an assumption. The book was written in 1911, and at that time, the didactic influence on children's literature remained relatively strong. Deborah Stevenson, in her article "History of Children's and Young Adult Literature" states:

Didacticism remains a strong element of contemporary children's books ostensibly designed for pleasure.[2, p. 180]

So there we have it, Mary is designed to be disgusting at the beginning of the book because children who do not behave cannot be good. They have to take a spiritual journey, understand how to be a good member of society, stop being disagreeable. Only then they can be worthy of pleasing adjectives.

Interestingly enough, Marina Nikolajeva in her article “Did you Feel as if you Hated People?” states, that Mary is depicted in that way, because the author doesn’t want readers to relate to characters, to merge with their personality.

The “just-like-me” assessment of characters, frequently adopted by novice readers, is restricted by the readers’ experience and does not foster empathy [3, p. 101]

Nevertheless, the author admits that most of Marry's problems are a consequence of the complete absence of her family:

If she had been an affectionate child, who had been used to being loved, she would have broken her heart, but even though she was "Mistress Mary Quite Contrary" she was desolate, and the bright-breasted little bird brought a look into her sour little face which was almost a smile. [1, p. 23]

In this context, the word "desolate" caught my attention. Having looked at the Online Cambridge Dictionary, I discovered the meaning - "extremely sad and feeling alone".

So Mary is not "ugly", she is not "quite contrary", not "fretful". She is just desolate and unjustly deprived of the basic human need - the need of a family, the need for being loved and cared for.

Q.#2 Is Colin really different from Marry?

Well, no.

That would be the simple answer and the most evident one, as the author tells us more than once, that Colin and Marry are equal in how horribly they behave towards other people. Nevertheless, while reading, I couldn't help but notice how different author makes us feel about them.

Colin, who is another unfortunate child without a proper family, never gets to be called something as ugly or fretful. He is shown to be pretty egoistic, but from the author's perspective, it doesn't look like he needs to go on a spiritual journey to become "a good child". Moreover, not only once is he described as a beautiful boy, even though he often has tantrums and never goes outside.

He was a very proud boy. He lay thinking for a while, and then Mary saw his beautiful smile begin and gradually change his whole face. [1, p.129]

Now, maybe he is portrayed like that because most of the time, we see the world from Marry's perspective, and she evidently fancies him. That is why, despite him being a "brat", he has a beautiful appearance.

Q.#3 Is the book really racist?

Well, yes.

Although, that answer, just like the previous one, would be the shallow one. Let us dig deeper.

As I already mentioned, we see the world from Marry’s perspective, except only for two last chapters, where we see robin’s and Mr Craven points of view. She is the one who encountered Indian people, and she is ultimately the only source of information about India that all the other characters possess. So, being a spoiled little girl as she is, is it any wonder that she talks about Indian servants in such a humiliating way? I bet she would speak like that about any person who served her, no matter the race or nationality. There was also an interesting dialogue between Martha and Marry:

“Eh! I can see it’s different,” she answered almost sympathetically. “I dare say it’s because there’s such a lot o’ blacks there instead o’ respectable white people. When I heard you was comin’ from India I thought you was a black too.”

Mary sat up in bed furious.

“What!” she said. “What! You thought I was a native. You—you daughter of a pig!”

Martha stared and looked hot.

“Who are you callin’ names?” she said. “You needn’t be so vexed. That’s not th’ way for a young lady to talk. I’ve nothin’ against th’ blacks. When you read about ’em in tracts they’re always very religious. You always read as a black’s a man an’ a brother. I’ve never seen a black an’ I was fair pleased to think I was goin’ to see one close. [1, p. 15]

From this passage, we can see that Martha has nothing against black people. In fact, the notion of “respectable white people” comes out of her lack of proper education and the absence of intercultural communication.

In the world 21st century, it is tough to say something without enraging certain people. I dare say, the silencing imposed on the Internet speech came to the point, that you are afraid to state your opinion without being condemned (Twitter campaign with hashtags RIPJKRowling as the most recent example).

The same thing applies to the books such as Secret Garden that cannot fit into modern cannon. Should we ban them? Where is the line between book propagandising the racism and the book that has racist characters in? Should we simply deny the existence of such people? And if yes, wouldn’t this denial be more dangerous than just putting the reality of the world out there for children to see? How do we insert that kind of people into a book and at the same time show that what they say isn’t quite right?

These questions are not part of our Q&A session, because, sadly, I don’t have the answer. I doubt that anyone does.

Q.#4 Why would author put that Yorkshire accent in the text?

That is a question that I asked myself pretty frequently. Actually, I wondered about it every time I struggled to read and understand it... so, every two pages more or less.

When I first encountered it, I instantly remember the books of Stephen King. In almost every one of his books, some people speak a southern American accent, making it hard to understand them. Reading those books, I didn’t bother wondering, what was the point of that kind of speech. Still, in the case of Secret Garden, the answer came to me quite quickly - it is actually a great author’s linguistic attempt to make the reader feel like Marry.

She comes to a place totally different from what she knew all her life, and even though people speak her language, she still struggles to understand them. It definitely helped me to relate to Mary, because, let me tell you, the Scottish accent is not an easy one to understand! So, I felt (and still sometimes feel) very awkward keeping asking people to repeat what they just said, just like Marry.

Q.#5 Is “The Secret Garden” anti-feminist?

It is not that hard to see, that "The Secret Garden", although started as an Entwicklungsroman, where the main character is supposed to develop and mentally mature, suddenly lost its point. The focus just shifted to Colin, and Mary was not even at the end of the story, discarded as a redundant character. While it may be seen so, there is an interesting article by Linda Parsons "' Otherways' into the Garden Re-visioning the Feminine in the Secret Garden" [4] where she argues that this novel is feminist in its core. Therefore, the author points out the fluidity of the gender depicted in the book. She gives an example of Ben Weatherstaff and Dickson, who are both caring and close to nature, something that is considered to be feminine qualities.

Also, she argues that the shift of the focus from Marry to Colin is justified. From her perspective, the author's intent to show that Collin is expelled from the Garden. Therefore, it is still Marry's story, because she matured and grew as a person, while Colin, even though healed physically, couldn't reach her emotional level, so he has no place in the Garden. I accept her interpretation, although I would point out, that I can't entirely agree with her last statement "I rejoice that Mary remains forever in the garden" [4, p. 267]. The fairytale-like endings that include nouns such as forever cannot be perceived as positive. The characters should evolve, both mentally and physically, but staying in one place forever would prevent Mary from doing that.

So at first, it was tough to understand Martha and Dickson, but with time it became more comfortable for Marry as well as for me. She even started speaking in Yorkshire sometimes, and that is a way of the author to show us one of the small but significant changes in Marry. Not only she becomes more kind towards other people, she genuinely wants to learn how to speak their language. Even Colin starts to master it, I guess, this skill he acquires after his magic ritual.

Interestingly enough, in the retold version, characters don’t speak Yorkshire anymore. I think although it makes it easier for children to read it, the book itself loses a valuable lesson of acceptance of other cultures and the assimilation. I would even argue that it’s one of the most important ones, as in our age of globalisation being acceptant of different cultures is a vital skill.

___

References:

1. Frances Hodgson Burnett “The Secret Garden”, The Project Gutenberg, accessed on: 07 Oct 2020: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/113/113-h/113-h.htm

2. Deborah Stevenson. 19 Oct 2010, History of Children’s and Young Adult Literature from: Handbook of Research on Children’s and Young Adult Literature Routledge, accessed on: 12 Oct 2020: https://www.routledgehandbooks.com/doi/10.4324/9780203843543.ch13

3. Maria Nikolajeva (2013) “Did you Feel as if you Hated People?”: Emotional Literacy Through Fiction, New Review of Children's Literature and Librarianship, 95-107 pp.

4. Linda Parsons “’Otherways’ into the Garden Re-visioning the Feminine in the Secret Garden”, Children’s Literature in Education, Vol. 33, No. 4, December 2002, 247-268 pp.

#secretgarden

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houseofzoey · 7 years ago

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Characters

Zoey: Zoey does absolutely nothing in this book. Well, that’s not exactly true – she does mostly nothing and whines the entire time. She complains about having to help remove the arrow from Stevie Rae’s chest. She complains about having too many boys in love with her. She complains about Erik not noticing her fancy new Marks. She complains about how hard her life is when Darius gets his cheek sliced open.

Otherwise, Zoey refuses to address problems whose solutions are presented to her on a silver platter: namely, the prophetic poem about banishing Kalona. She receives this prophecy on page 136 but doesn’t actually seriously try to make sense of it until page 249. That’s 113 pages of ignoring the obvious solution to the primary conflict. This is made worse by the fact that, once she actually decides to deal with it, making sense of the poem is incredibly easy. She just has to think about people she knows in connection to the five positions outlined by the poem and see if she gets a good feeling in her gut. But even then, she doesn’t solve it herself! She has to get Lenobia to walk her through solving it. On a lesser scale, Zoey knows immediately that Stevie Rae is lying about how many red fledglings are in the tunnels, but never actually does anything to address this. She doesn’t confide in her friends and check if any of them can do some scouting. She doesn’t go looking herself. She just decides not to think about it and wastes time doing nothing instead.

Worse, when Zoey does take action it’s usually incredibly stupid. As I’ve harped on plenty, going outside with Heath was an astronomically stupid thing to do, especially because they had just finished discussing how important it was to stay underground where they were safe. Then, when the Raven Mocker attacked, she didn’t call on the elements to stop it or to shield Heath. Instead, she managed to run across the icy parking lot without issue and dove in front of the Raven Mocker, becoming grievously injured and nearly dying in the process. What a genius!

Zoey also, once again, does not learn from her mistakes. Her dating life goes right back to where it was before. Actually, let’s talk about those love interests for a moment, shall we? Let’s pause and examine just what kind of boys Zoey is juggling in this installment of the series.

Heath: Still as much a bloodlust abusing would-be date rapist as he ever was! However, this time, after he reforms his Imprint with Zoey and thus traps her into a relationship with him again, he gets to taunt and demean her actual boyfriend over it! What a charming love interest. And, no, he doesn’t get any grace for feeding her his blood to save her life because right before that he cut himself and tried to drug her with bloodlust in the middle of a parking lot. The small fraction of character development he could have experienced is completely thrown out the window as he inexplicably trusts Zoey again immediately and resumes expressing his undying love for her.

Stark: Zoey still harps on about their ~*connection*~ and insists he is a good person. This is demonstrably not true. Stark attempted murder against Stevie Rae, threatened murder against Darius several times and Erik once, attempted to rape Becca, and is assumed to have raped several other girls (as shown when Zoey comments on him being with “a crapload of girls”). He never shows any remorse for any of this.

Kalona: Zoey’s actual soulmate because she’s the reincarnation of A-ya. It breaks Zoey’s heart to banish him. She thinks he might have been good once and feels bad for him, the serial rapist, enslaver, and murderer that he is.

Erik: According to Zoey and Aphrodite, he’s the worst. Look at him, getting jealous and rightfully suspecting her of cheating on him! What a horrible, awful boyfriend. Obviously way worse than her other boys.

Please note that Erik is the only love interest so far who has not attempted or committed rape. He gets pushy, yes, but Erik is the only one who has not actually crossed that line thus far. And he is the most vilified. Because this series is empowering to women and makes lots of sense!

Zoey also continued using her magic power as a means to threaten people into submission, as seen when she tells Erik and Heath to stop fighting. She also uses this to threaten Stark, though it’s notable in this instance that she’s basically bragging that she’s not helpless like Becca and all the other girls he has attacked. This is made apparent by the fact that tells him she’ll kick his ass right after bringing up how annoying his love-sick mind-control victims were. The worst example, however, is her threatening to kill Venus and the red fledglings for, you know, calling her out for killing someone. The only new development here is that other characters are now bragging about her powers to threaten people into submission. Specifically, we get this hypocrisy laden quote from Heath to Erik: “She really, really, really doesn’t like it when you try to tell her what to do. […] I mean, even before she got the vamp mojo from her goddess, she hated to be bossed around.”

The authors can’t seem to make up their minds as to whether Zoey is a confident High Priestess-in-training who is slowly taking on the role of a true High Priestess and knows how to assert herself, or if she’s still young and confused and not prepared for any of the responsibilities that come with this position. She has no issue asserting her position as High Priestess to declare Kramisha the new Poet Laureate, she doesn’t hesitate to invoke this position of power to threaten Erik, and she has no uncertainty about how a High Priestess goes about accepting a Warrior’s Oath when Stark pledges himself to her. However, she is reluctant to act as a High Priestess and help tend to Stevie Rae’s wound, she’s stressed by the thought of Lenobia recognizing her as the new High Priestess, and she has trouble accepting that she’s part of the prophecy to banish Kalona.

Overall, Zoey is still a really awful person. This is shown in a variety of ways, from petty stuff like bragging about her power during what is supposed to be a silly little water-fight with the Twins (“Of course they couldn’t win. I mean, come on! I can call on all five elements […]”) to horrific things like mocking and degrading Becca for being raped and mind-controlled. There’s also the fact that she completely demonizes Venus for being somewhat cold toward her and flirting with Erik, who Zoey isn’t even dating anymore. And she doesn’t just sneer at Venus and think mean thoughts about her – she openly threatens her (and all the red fledglings with her) and on four other occasions has to resist the urge to attack Venus for such offenses as being unfriendly to Jack and existing in the same room as Erik. Zoey is a trigger-happy, judgemental, elitist, and self-centered brat who wants all of the adoration and spotlight of being a High Priestess but none of the responsibilities and stress that come with it.

Stevie Rae In this book, Stevie Rae manages not to die. Her injury is completely downplayed and the characters spend page after page chatting while she bleeds out on a table, even going so far as to have banter about her wound (see Damien and the Twins vocabulary argument), but she lives. In fact, her condition is so seriously neglected by the narrative that it’s basically impossible to worry about her. The beginning of the book makes it obvious she survives before we get sucked into the flashback that never ends, there’s a lack of urgency in treating her wound, and the fact that she is able to calmly and coherently have conversations and only expresses pain through gasps – it’s just hard to worry about a character presented that way.

Stevie Rae does get some semblance of her own story, however. Technically this was started in the previous book, but it becomes more apparent here. We get confirmation in this book that Stevie Rae is hiding more red fledglings from the main group… and that’s it. There’s no indication about why, no hint of treachery or a secret plot. She just… has a bunch of extra fledglings hiding somewhere in the tunnels for some reason. This plot point basically exists and then is completely ignored for the entire book. Still, the fact that Stevie Rae has any element of her own story existing in the same universe as Zoey is a bit amazing.

Otherwise, however, Stevie Rae does next to nothing in this book. She doesn’t die, she introduces the red fledglings and we get to see a little bit of her acting as a leader, she and Aphrodite Imprint, and she’s part of the circle to banish Kalona. That’s it.

Aphrodite Unfortunately, Aphrodite was a lot less active in this book. I think a significant reason for this is that she doesn’t have any visions except at the very end when she saw Neferet and Kalona leading vampyres to war with humans – and even that was fairly pointless. For one thing, Zoey and co. were already planning to banish Kalona, so it didn’t motivate them into any kind of action they weren’t already going to take. For another thing, readers already knew Neferet wanted a war, so that didn’t serve as a shocking revelation or twist.

Aside from that, Aphrodite was just another one of Zoey’s cheerleaders in this book. She was comedic relief as “Imprinted Drunk Vision Girl” during the flashback, she was briefly useful by leading a circle when Zoey was grievously injured (though that was barely shown), and she spent a significant amount of time talking to Zoey about Stevie Rae and Stark. The latter is especially reminiscent of Stevie Rae’s role in earlier books – she was there to gush when Zoey had juicy boy drama and boost her spirit when she had genuine concerns. Other than that, however, Aphrodite – like early Stevie Rae – had very little to contribute.

One major part of Aphrodite’s role in this book relates to her Imprinting with Stevie Rae. I’ve probably harped on enough about my disappointment that the authors wasted an opportunity for bisexual representation. However, what’s more upsetting is the way the sexual implications of such an Imprint were treated. It’s one thing for Aphrodite to be repulsed by Stevie Rae and insist she’s not attracted to her, it’s another for everyone to continuously laugh at Aphrodite for the Imprint. The Twins especially seem to find this hilarious – and later they play off a homophobic slur by calling her Aphrodikey. I don’t really understand what the authors were getting at with this line of jokes. For a series that places so much emphasis on Zoey and co. not being homophobic and accepting Damien and Jack, it doesn’t make sense for the idea of Aphrodite being gay or bi to be treated with such hilarity.

The only other thing really of note is that this book once again wasted a perfect opportunity to explore Aphrodite’s relationship to her humanity. Given that she occupied this role in the poem circle, it would have made sense to tie that into the story more. For one thing, if Zoey could have bothered to figure out the poem before the eleventh hour, she could have figured out Aphrodite’s role early on and that could have served as the route for some kind of character arc for Aphrodite in this book. Maybe she’s still bitter about losing her Marks, especially when she has to watch Zoey get gifted with tattoo after tattoo. Maybe she’s especially upset that Zoey got her hands Marked after failing to prevent Kalona’s rise, proving that Nyx will reward her for making even the slightest effort while Aphrodite is left unMarked and still plagued by horrific visions. Maybe Aphrodite questions the meaning of humanity, her worthiness of it – maybe she feels like she’s too cold-hearted and broken from her abusive up-bringing to be the shining example of humanity needed for the circle. It could have been an interesting source of struggle and growth, but instead its tossed in without a second thought.

Twins As per usual, nothing new happened with the Twins. Well, unless you count Erin now also comparing her skin colour to food and listing it as a reason why men should date her.

Also, while this isn’t exactly new, it is notable: The Twins keep flirting with Darius. Flirting with taken men, especially men that one of their friends is dating, is par for the course with these charming characters, but it’s noteworthy here because it’s so closely juxtaposed with Venus being threatened with incineration for flirting with Zoey’s ex-boyfriend – even though Venus had no way of knowing about Zoey’s past relationship with him. When the Twins flirt with men they know are in committed relationships, however, it’s barely worthy of a second look.

Damien Damien barely exists in this book. As usual, when he does exist, it’s so he can remind readers he’s gay or showcase the authors’ floundering attempt to write an intelligent character.

Jack Exists even less than Damien and when he does it is entirely in the interest of reminding readers he’s gay. Also, his characterization as a small child becomes even more egregious, such as when he asks where the “potty” is.

Neferet Appears so little in this book that she has to show up as a ghostly image of herself to remind readers that she’s a threat. She does so by, uh… smiling evily and turning into spiders that immediately vanish.

Other than that, however, Neferet really doesn’t have much of a presence in this book. She might as well have not even been there during the climax for how little she did. I suppose she did counter Kalona’s orders to kill Grandma by telling Stark to instead kill Zoey, but otherwise she basically just stood there looking evil.

Her motives and plans are still incredibly unclear. We know she either wants to take over the High Council of all vampyres or the Council of the House of Night she already has power over. The former makes more sense, especially since it’s in line with her previous plans to declare war on humans (which is re-established through a vision Aphrodite has at the very end of the book). However, it’s notable that rather than using the combined mind-control capabilities of herself and Kalona, it seems as though Neferet plans to achieve power through completely legal and diplomatic means. This is indicated through Zoey saying that “they [Kalona and Neferet] are gathering their power so they can be sure of the Council’s vote” when it comes time to elect a new High Priestess. The only way she had broken any laws is by killing Shekinah, but that had to be done in order to make the position of High Priestess of all vampyres open.

This is an okay plan, I guess, but it still rings hollow because I have no idea why she wants to do any of this. Why does Neferet want war with humans? The only hint we get at any animosity she might have toward humans was when we learned in Betrayed that she was sexually abused by her father. This doesn’t work as a motivation, though, because a) being abused by one person isn’t reason enough to hate all human beings, and b) having her become so evil that she wants essentially take over the world and commit genocide because she was raped is a pretty horrifically negative portrayal of victims, even for this series.

Nyx Once again, talking about Nyx involves questioning basically everything about this entire story.

Why do characters occupy the roles that they do for the banishment circle? Why is Stevie Rae blood instead of earth? Why is grandma racistly inserted into the position of earth? Why is Aphrodite humanity when that’s barely been a part of her character arc? Why is Zoey night and not spirit? Why is Sister Mary Angela part of the circle other than to lead them to the place of power at the abbey? Why even have the abbey be the designated place of power if the nuns weren’t going to be part of the blessing against Kalona?

Why couldn’t Nyx send Aphrodite a warning vision about Zoey being attacked by the Raven Mocker? Or did she just choose not to? Why would she not warn Aphrodite about the near death of her eyes and ears on Earth, but she gave Kramisha warning poems alerting her to Kalona’s existence?

Speaking of, why is Nyx suddenly so obsessed with poems? They barely played a role in earlier books except as part of fancy circle casting, but now she has characters writing poems as vague warnings and instructions that they have to puzzle out. Were Aphrodite’s cryptic visions not enough? And if all this information is clearly intended for Zoey to figure out and act upon, why isn’t she sending the visions and poems directly to her?

Why is Nyx so adamant that Zoey redeem Stark? Why is she giving her step-by-step instructions on how to redeem a remorseless rapist but not on how to comfort and reason with a brainwashed rape victim? Why didn’t she show Zoey a path to Stark’s redemption that involved him repenting and proving himself as a good person?

Why did Nyx only give warning feelings to Zoey and co. around Kalona when they returned to the House of Night? Why didn’t she reach out to protect other fledglings and vampyres? Is it because they have strong affinities, similarly to how Dragon, Lenobia, and Anastasia were the only professors able to resist Kalona? But that still doesn’t make sense because a) some of them don’t even have strong affinities, as with Anastasia’s weak, barely-established affinity for earth, and b) there’s bound to be plenty of other fledglings and vampyres who have affinities. So why doesn’t Nyx try to give them warnings to protect them from Kalona?

If Nyx is so against infringing on people’s free will, why is Kalona capable of mind-control? Why is Neferet able to erase people’s memories? Why give the red fledglings the ability to mind-control people? That completely goes against her principle values!

#house of zoey #hunted #final thoughts

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dmclemblems · 7 years ago

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Here is a handy little list of JD’s preferences of gen 2 characterization in the FE4 mangas (as Light Inheritors does not include gen 1 thus cannot be compared).

Fin: Pretty even. Didn’t like the odd plot related things in LI but personality wise either is fine. If nothing else, preferable to Oosawa due to lengthened time/appearances and a lot more relationships.

Shanan: Probably pretty even, though LI might win if only because things weren’t so stupidly complicated with him and Lakche in the romance department. Nothing against Oosawa Shanan in particular, but I think LI might have this one.

Oifaye: Probably pretty even though I feel I prefer LI because Oosawa Oifaye seems too... paranoid? He’s not really like that in canon, so it’s odd that he’s so heavily against Alvis when in canon he’s shown to be the exact opposite of that.

Celice: Very complicated. Probably even. I don’t like his power trip in Oosawa and how sort of violent he gets and how he falls too into the role of being a leader against canon, but LI making him so obsessed with Lana for the entire last two volumes was annoying as fuck and I was in the corner with Aless rolling my eyes pretty often.

Lakche: LI dear jesus fucking god. 1) Does not frequently guilt trip Shanan or cry like a whiny baby because he won’t love her, 2) Is not massively OOC sometimes. I prefer her relationship with Johalva in the beginning of Oosawa, but fuck if that doesn’t go south because she’s so obsessed with Shanan.

Skasaher: Both are good, but Oosawa because he gets far more time in the spotlight. Huge MVP for me, and definitely has much more of a defined character.

Delmud: Oosawa, by miles and miles. Nothing against LI Delmud, but he has literally no characterization and basically no time in the manga period. Oosawa heaps him with characterization and spotlight and he’s such a precious person.

Lester: Probably LI. He’s not bad in Oosawa, but he definitely got LI Delmud treatment and took a massive backseat.

Lana: Oosawa. I don’t really agree with either version much. In LI, she’s just a very stereotypical personality and more or less just exists to be the main love interest. In Oosawa, while I do prefer her to LI, she’s very OOC imo. She doesn’t look nor act like the game Lana. LI had a more accurate portrayal but it went too far into typical waifu personality traits. Any negative parts of her character were wiped from both mangas and she’s portrayed to be way too good.

Yuria: I guess kind of even? In terms of personality, not much is different. Yuria does get a tome in Oosawa, but she cries about being useless far too much. In LI, I get a little tired of her obsession with Celice and she acts like a little kid sometimes about him. The good parts of her are basically the same between mangas, and her general characterization is pretty much even.

Johalva: Oosawa. Not booted to comedy relief at all and doesn’t just exist for it and given far more presence than in LI. Ends up with plot significance and doesn’t fade out in appearances despite that Oosawa has to keep moving on and give each pair of siblings their arcs. He acts more like a little kid in LI and absolutely nothing like what I see in the game.

Johan: Oosawa, if only because he actually has more presence and isn’t deduced ONLY to obsession with Lakche. LI isn’t too bad but he’s far too serious for me and trying to put him in comedy relief with the given personality just doesn’t fit well to me. I do find him genuinely humorous in Oosawa.

Fee: Oosawa. I really hated how her role and Sety’s role with the family got completely reversed in LI and Fee was extremely OOC in LI. Tbh, she was kind of a bitch to Arthur, and she was clingy and obsessive to her father to... pretty unhealthy levels to the point he made it a point to yell at her and just be fucking done. I found her to be more of a brat in LI than anything. She’s given a lot of relevance in both mangas, but her insecurities are made a lot more clear in Oosawa and she’s more complex.

Arthur: Oosawa without a damn doubt. Too happy go lucky and giddy in LI. Shows faaar too much emotion. He knows when to back off in Oosawa and when someone needs help, and his relationship with Fee has a very good companionship. I can’t see their portrayal in LI as anything short of abusive toward Arthur honestly. They make good comrades and help each other pull through quite a lot in Oosawa. He’s protective and gentle with Tinny, but too obsessive for me in LI.

Patty: Oosawa. Too hyper in LI and the majority of her character is based on romance and crushing on people. I’m happy Lester/Patty was given the time to develop in LI, but Patty is way too bouncy for me. She has plenty of agency in Oosawa and her complexity as a character is shown spectacularly. She probably actually has more time in the spotlight than a good handful of the characters at least and takes initiative to be an active member of the army. She lacks productivity in LI, but productivity is a huge part of her canon character.

Aless: Oosawa. Too much of a stereotypical lone wolf in LI when he’s really shown to be more relaxed and casual in canon. I do think he’s a bit too... happy? in Oosawa, but he’s definitely more casual, talkative and mingles more with his comrades. I think I used to prefer LI Aless but honestly now I can’t really remember exactly why. He fits closer to canon and has more detail to him in Oosawa.

Nanna: Oosawa. She’s given more of a personality and is kind of just... there in LI. Tbh I actually found her nagging at Leaf very annoying and found her to be kind of cardboard overall. I’m also a sucker for her getting along with Fin which is shown more in Oosawa. It feels like she got the Lana treatment in LI and just got a cardboard personality to be nothing but waifu material. She has a much more defined personality in FE4 than FE5, and that’s what I like to see in Oosawa.

Leaf: Oosawa. While I love his interactions with Celice in LI and his justified anger with his personal events, he’s FAR too bubble and bouncy and it’s just very OOC. There’s just something massively off about him throughout the manga, and him being more or less a closet pervert and being overly touchy and open with people just makes me take a step back in shock and confusion. Oosawa allows us time to see him grow and show all angles of his personality - the sorrow, the anger, the happiness, the closeness to his comrades. I do think he cries a bit too much in Oosawa, but I’d rather see that than a closet pervert Leaf who acts like a bouncy young teen. Oosawa Leaf is also just so sweet and precious and deserves the world.

Tinny: LI. I felt she took way too long to side with Arthur in LI, but that’s about the extent of my complaints with her character. I did love her interactions with Fin in Oosawa and how she treated his wounds and protected and defended him, and tbh she was great through that whole volume. I would say they’d be pretty even if that was the extent of things, but volume fourteen and onward made me so absolutely done with her that LI takes this award and runs like hell. I think it would take a looot of detail for me to thoroughly explain my aggravation with her in Oosawa in the later volumes. Besides for like, being kind of an unjustifiably huge asshole to one of my top favorites.

Faval: OOSAWA. LI’s Faval is too hyper, happy and kind of obnoxious. He’s absolutely nothing like that in canon and I very much enjoy his soft but powerful presence in Oosawa. He’s respectful and knows when it’s time to stand up and be tough, and his character isn’t so two dimensional. I understand it’s hard to make him very complex without him being a remotely main character and coming into the story pretty late, so I hold that against him far less than I would for say a character who had been there since the very beginning like Yuria and sees no personality development. Definitely prefer his closeness with Patty too and how they work together as a team.

Sety: OOOOOSAAAAAAWAAAAAAA. Fucking fight me. LI more or less just made him a stone faced quiet person and made him a bit too respectful. I really didn’t like the part in LI where he says he doesn’t even want to understand his father's reasons for what he’s doing/saying because of how painfully distant it is from canon. Oosawa shows him as a more emotional, traumatized teen who has experienced the real hell of war and idealism in war. He’s far more complex and has plenty of levels to his personality. Faval wasn’t given basically a volume to himself in the same regard, and he didn’t really come back for more major scenes in following volumes like Sety did, which gave Sety more time to develop in comparison. He’s very emotional in Oosawa in the way he’s shown to be in canon, but I appreciate that he’s given a level of sass and self assertiveness as a way to hide a lot of insecurities and problems. He’s been through A LOT and a lot more than the majority of the gen 2 kids can say, but I’m grateful that in Oosawa, at least it shows.

Altenna: Probably Oosawa. She’s not exactly bad in LI and I do like her, but I find myself preferable to the complications in her relationships in Oosawa. I do prefer in LI that she really turns on Trabant and stays that way from what we see, whereas in Oosawa she turns on him VERY violently but still thinks of him as a father in the end. She takes her parting from Arion very harshly which I like, and I appreciate her gentleness with Corpul and Leaf in Oosawa. I’d say overall they pretty much even out, though I feel like Oosawa took away a tidbit of her ferocity and unrelenting side. I think with LI overall I wish I had seen more of her affectionate side which shines through very well in Oosawa and is a huge positive quality she holds in canon.

Hannibal: No preference really. There’s nothing exactly bad about him in LI and he’s only there a couple/few times. He has more time in Oosawa, but nothing is drastically different... except, like, his body type and hair color. Actually looks more his age and stature in Oosawa. But that’s about it.

Holsety: I guess Oosawa? Both mangas do absolutely fantastic in writing him though and all the tidbits you really need to have for him are present in both adaptions. It seems both authors enjoyed him enough to really delve into his character. If nothing else I may be more preferable to Oosawa because he retains the act of being Levin with that casual side of him far longer and doesn’t drop to being stoic for the entire rest of the manga. He’s stern if he has to be, but he never drops the casual side of him that keeps him close to Celice and the other adults. Oosawa did manage to give a bit more elaboration on his family situation since the manga is longer and goes farther into the story, so being able to see that development unfold is probably what further leans more toward Oosawa. LI had a ton of tidbits that really point to how he’s not really Levin and the best instances of him are extremely subtle moments. Oosawa is more open with them, but she doesn’t have him entirely stoic. Overall I really appreciate the writing for both.

Ishtar: Oosawa jesus fuck. Not a bitch. Not two dimensional. Given plenty of agency and plot relevance and given all the right reasons to make you feel bad for having to see her die. LI? “wow what a bitch can we just kill her already”. Also really love how developed her relationship with Sety becomes and how he’s the one who makes her struggle in her loyalties. Also really love the amount of trust they have in each other and how they were trying to be each other’s support in these little odd ways despite being enemies. She saved him and he tried to return that, but her loyalty remained with Yurius which to him meant she couldn’t be saved as long as she had that loyalty.

Arion: Pretty even. I might be bias toward Oosawa so that might tilt my decision if anything, and because I like that he displays more emotions in Oosawa.

Trabant: LI dear god. LI Trabs is like a-okay perfect. Oosawa Trabs... uh... do you guys really need me to cover that??? I mean admittedly he was perfect in volume four, then it’s like holy shit Oosawa what the FUCK did you do??? It feels like someone else entirely starting writing for him.

Note: For some reason, whenever I do explanation lists, the longer I write, the more I write, and the top people seem to get much less in detail. I dunno man, but it just happens every single time.

Other note: For those who have not read LI, Leen is not in the manga at all and Corpul only appears as a cameo, thus they are not in this list.

#JD's list of preferred manga characterizations #DCE Comments

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rock-and-compass · 8 years ago

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Rock and Compass Watches Once Upon A Time – 6.17: Awake

Overview

Emma labours under the immense burden of responsibility with being the saviour; her parents are under a sleeping curse, Hook is trapped in an unknown realm, Henry is having a strange reaction to his author powers, the book is near its end, Gideon is still afoot, the final battle looms… Snow and David, desperate to be there for Emma try a radical cure for their curse but it backfires making the situation worse. The Black Fairy makes her presence known and in a flashback to the time of the Dark Curse, Snow and David have the opportunity to reunite with a young Emma.

Discussion and Thoughts and things of significance

What was good about this episode was very, very good. What was bad was awful.

The power of love – The theme of sacrifice is explored throughout the episode, apt for an installment that screened on Easter day. We see numerous characters make willing sacrifices for the greater good, or indeed because they are putting another person ahead of themselves:

Firstly we see Snow and David put duty and the entire population of Storybrooke ahead of their opportunity to be reunited with a ten-year-old Emma; the curse is still eighteen long years away from being broken and they know that if they go through the door to meet her then they are dooming an entire population to an eternity of living the same day over and over while being separated from their own loved ones.

We see Emma, willingly shoulder each new crisis sacrificing her own personal priorities for greater cause.

Hook resigns himself to dying at the hands of the Lost Boys safe in the knowledge that he has helped get something to Emma that might be pivotal to her in the final battle.

Tiger-Lily also puts this achievement ahead of all else.

Gideon, in allowing one small flower to survive his magical eradication, sacrifices a position of security and trust with The Black Fairy to assist the person with the most potential to defeat her.

Probably the most powerful example of sacrifice comes from Snow when she tells Emma to use the limited amount of magic flower dust to get Killian back rather than use it to cure their curse. It’s a lovely epiphany moment for Snow, the parent who has had the most difficulty in transitioning from friend to mother and indeed, separating Emma from her fated role of saviour. The realisation that Emma has already sacrificed too much for them is a lovely counterpoint to the events from the days of the Dark Curse. In the flashback we see Snow put her duty to her people before her own needs as a mother, David’s as a father and before Emma’s right to be raised by her own loving family – Looking through the doorway Snow and David see 10-year-old Emma sitting on the bed reading, listening to music – she seems happy and content. They see that it would be selfish to go through the door and resign all the people of Storybrooke, inadvertently swept up in Regina’s vengeance, to an eternity of a repeated day and separation from their own loved ones. The greater good wins out. They trust that Emma will grow up safe and well and will find them when the time is right. They don’t see the situation from Emma’s side of the door – the bunk beds of the group home, the shabby surrounds, and the fact that Emma is lonely and unloved and has spent time on the streets. They are not to know that the next eighteen years are not going to get any easier for her either. Without knowing the true weight of it, they ask Emma (again) to bear the burden of sacrifice for them and a population of people she doesn’t even know exists. In the present, when Emma knows with the instinct of true love that Hook is in danger, Snow finally understands the level of sacrifice that Emma has made for them. Should she have realised this sooner? Possibly, given the nature of the flashback. But perhaps it’s fitting that Snow, whose first priority is always David, finally gets it only when Emma is about to lose the man she loves too. She gives Emma the magic flower dust and tells her to use it to get Hook back; she acts like any mother would and puts her daughter’s happiness first. This is not about “Emma the Saviour” – it’s a mum, giving her child an incredible gift out of pure love. Anyone bending this story to suggest that Emma is selfish in “choosing” Hook over her parents is deliberately missing the entire point of the episode.

Of course, Snow’s decision to close the door on a chance to raise Emma for the good of others is paralleled by select and representative residents of Storybrooke willingly taking the risk of drinking the sleeping curse for Snow because there is a chance that it will free her and David from the spell. Unselfish sacrifice is both a gift and a reward – the cost may sometimes be high but this is the hero’s path, the hard way that always finds justice in the end.

There is a contrast though. Rumple is shown to be the exact opposite when he is clearly willing to sacrifice the entire town to get his son back. Rather than play his card close to his chest, Rumple deliberately reveals his hand to his mother and so invites the war to erupt between them – She promises retribution that will leave nothing standing if Rumple crosses her, and yes, that’s a price he’s willing to pay. It’s tempting to think that Mr Gold was being benevolent and selfless for the people of Storybrooke when he encouraged the newly awoken Snow and David to drink the memory potion and wait out the remainder of the curse in ignorance, but remember his stake in the curse in the first place, and the fact that he needs the curse broken so that he can leave town, with his magic intact to find his on long-lost son. Never forget, he’s an absolute master of puppetry who always put what’s good for Rumpelstiltskin ahead of all else.

The proposal 2.0 - Another aspect of the episode that is satisfying is the second proposal. Hook’s first instinct on arriving back is to apologise for not being honest about his responsibility for Robert’s death and for ever contemplating running away from the issue. He feels 100% responsible for the mess he’s been in and the worry he’s caused. Emma, like most people when receiving a genuine, heartfelt apology, diffuses blame by saying she didn’t make it easy for him to come clean with her pre-emptive discovery of the ring and her eagerness to hear that proposal. It’s not her fault. She knows it. He knows it. But that’s the way apologies work, especially between people who love each other. This is not Emma “taking the blame” for Hook’s crimes; it’s the simple act of finding common ground and making the reconciliation easier. And yes, it’s easy for Emma and Hook because they want the same thing – each other. We’ve seen Snow and Emma use this tactic for years, diffusing the issues with Regina – Snow casts herself as a spoilt brat to appease, Emma shoulders blame to diffuse Regina’s wrath after Marion returns from the dead (my god, watch 4.05 to see the diffusion in action!).

Once the apology is out of the way, Killian jumps straight to the proposal, knowing that the time is never right, that something always happens in this freaking town, you’ve got to strike while the iron is hot he pops the question, again,

“Swan, I know you face an uncertain future but there’s one thing I want you to be certain of, I will always, always be by your side. So, Emma Swan, what do you say – will you marry me?

It’s brief but it’s perfect. In those few words he promises her the very thing she wants above all else – a partnership based on love and trust. He knows that her life is crazy and unpredictable, but he promises her the certainty and security of himself. He will be there by her side and she will never be alone again. She kneels with him to give her acceptance – this is equal – it’s not “the saviour” and the ‘villain she saved’, its Emma and Killian embracing a future together. Gorgeous. Should the proposal have happened while Snow and David lie under the sleeping curse a couple of meters away? Maybe not, but you know, it’s actually a great example of the difficulty of finding the perfect moment for these kinds of things in Storybrooke, but more than that, the symbolism of Killian being there when her parents can’t is kind of appropriate – Her parents are important, and always will be, but Killian is her home and she’s no longer alone regardless of where Snow and David are in the future, Emma has found what her parents have. This is the new story.

That one time we woke but never mentioned – While the theme and purpose of the episode was good, the method of getting there was questionable. Retcon is a hard fish to sell on the best of days and this example was very much on the nose. Yes, it is one random day that happened in among twenty-eight years of days and we are not to know what happened on all of them . . . no, wait, yes we are – the same thing happened day after day with only slight variations because that was the curse. But now, suddenly, six years into the show and we are told that no, there was this one day when Snow and David were woken and had the chance to find Emma years before she was due to come to town. I have a hard time buying it because surely it would have got spoken of before? Not to mention the fact that their premature awakening from the curse depends entirely on the growth of a plot-convenience in the form of a magical flower that only grows in the presence of great evil, and that miraculously, this magic flower grows in Storybrooke even though there is no magic in the town. Then to get continuity back on track so that it matches with established canon, Rumple, David and Snow all must drink a memory potion to ensure that they forget this day ever happened. And then, once the curse is broken, not one of them talks about the aberration, ever. Add to this the fact that the flashback provides the impetus for Snow’s epiphany about Emma’s heavy burden of responsibility and the use of retcon is even more pointless – why would something that Snow already knew provide such inspiration now? What a missed opportunity to have an episode centered around Snow, David and Emma and to feature sustained dialogue and meaningful conversation! Unfortunately, we didn’t get conversation, we got a revised history with the major purpose begin to provide a contrast between Snow and Rumple. In the flashback Snow knows her duty is to her people, she can’t let them suffer the Dark Curse forever in the name of her own happiness. This is of course, the opposite to Rumple who is willing to let Storybrooke and its people be destroyed in the pursuit of his son. And the funny thing is that we knew that Snow took her duty seriously when she put Emma in the wardrobe, I’m not sure we needed the reminder.

Cure for the curse – with Snow giving up the cure for the sleeping curse, we are left with an obvious narrative need to get the curse broken and fast, so the story can move forward – we have a wedding to plan after all. Slight problem, when the curse has been set up as unbreakable. As it stands the method chosen to break the curse was very odd indeed. The idea occurs to Regina out of nowhere, and it’s illogical that a spell that is already in Snow and David’s hearts can be broken by a group of people suddenly drinking a suddenly liquid version of the spell when it is already in Snow and David’s hearts. It makes no sense, as my illustration attempts to demonstrate using tea as an analogy:

A plus B does not equal C. I know that it’s magic and that it doesn’t have to follow any rules but come on, some logic should be present and this just doesn't seem to have any. We’re either just supposed to accept it or . . . something else is going on. I wonder if there is a purpose that Regina wants all those hearts with a little bit of Sleeping spell in them and whether it will come back into play later? In an episode about sacrifice, featuring a saviour, airing on Easter day it’s hard to miss the obvious symbolism - the cure very much resembled a communion service, the chalice being passed from person to person, only instead of the ‘blood of Christ’ it contains a sleeping potion. It recalls the last supper, the meal that Jesus introduces his disciples to the communion ritual, before his “final battle” and crucifixion. So, is Emma the ultimate sacrifice in our story? Will she “die” and be resurrected to win victory over darkness? And who among these people will be her betrayer? You can’t have an Easter story without a Judas.

Skull Rock – well something went down there that makes Tiger-Lily very dubious about Killian Jones. Wonder if we’ll ever find out more… probably not. Hook’s long history in Neverland remains as mysterious as ever. The only thing lacking in the interactions between Hook and Tiger was a directive to use the shadow spell to escape Neverland. As it was presented, Hook’s innate knowledge of what to do with the magic sort of came out of nowhere. I wonder if the explanation was cut for time?

That stubby stick – The small stump of wood that both Killian and Tiger-Lily are prepared to risk their lives to get it back to Emma is obviously going to be important. Tiger says that it is part of a wand, the most powerful wand ever made. Does that mean they’ll have to find the other part or parts? Is it a new wand or one we’ve met before? And How is it going to help Emma in this coming battle?

Tiger-Lily – She’s an interesting character. I liked her a lot. She is very invested in defeating the Black Fairy, partly because she sees it as her fault that she went down her dark path, obviously part of the past that she’d rather forget. She is also very knowledgeable – she knows about saviours and she knows that the Black Fairy is in Storybrooke. How does she have such precise information? Hmmm… I wonder if Gideon is in communication with her somehow? Last week I wondered if Hook was sent specifically to Neverland to rendezvous with Tiger-Lily and now I’m even more suspicious. Tiger did seem to be expecting him. It is also very interesting that Tiger-Lily’s story with the Black Fairy seems to mirror Tinkerbell’s history with Regina – those parallels just keep coming.

Doodles of doom – Henry’s author problem only gets a passing reference and we get a close-up look at some of his sketches – lots of all-seeing eyes and stylised figures. Plus a rabbit and a deer….

Calling it like he sees it – It is interesting that it is only after the split queen has been dealt with that anyone acknowledges that Regina and the Evil Queen were the same person. David, does it when he is losing patience with the lack of progress being made on breaking the curse on Regina’s end. He directly attributes the curse to her. They don’t want us to forget that they were one and the same, even though they made all the characters ignore it while it was going on. Maybe all that audience frustration at it never being acknowledged was deliberately induced? Speaking of Regina and her suspiciousness, her reaction to Emma’s hand shaking is a bit odd, she doesn’t look concerned, she looks pissed off. The way she slams the book shut and has an air of general peevishness is inconsistent with the actual situation.

A field of evil – “whoever you’re supposed to face in the final battle, they’re already here.” It’s an interesting line. We’re meant to assume that it’s about the Black Fairy and she has caused the phenomenal growth of the magic induced-by-evil flowers, but what if it’s not? What if the “Great Evil” was already there? They’ve shown us one particular person who had the ability to grow such a flower in a town without magic and this same person has just had a fresh influx of evil and darkness reinserted into a previously (although artificially) pristine heart. It’s got to have some effect on her doesn’t it?

Not so Hopeful – I really liked the characterisation of Emma in this episode. She’s got a lot on her plate, she’s putting on a brave face but the shakes are giving her away. Hope is not her natural forte; she has to remind herself to have it but she’s clearly struggling. The separation from Hook is trying and she marvels at her parents ability to cope and still work together despite their separation. Despite the fact that she and Killian clearly have this ability (as demonstrated with the Underworld arc), the fact that she doesn’t know where he is gives her pause. I love that David has innate faith and gives it to Emma - he knows that Killian is working hard to get home to her. And the beauty of the whole situation is that he is. That’s what he’s doing in Neverland and even though she doesn’t know it, they are working together, she on the flower part and he on the weapon part and it’s a beautiful example of how they are a team, how they are connected even across realms.

Last Battle Schmattle - All this talk of the “last Battle” is bizarre. The Black fairy says she has been waiting to meet Emma for a very long time and that they have been fated to clash since the beginning of time… but wasn’t she trying to kill Emma to gain entry into this world? It doesn’t make sense. The Black fairy still feels like all talk. What’s her aim? What’s her motive? They keep telling us that she’s terrible, terrifying, evil-personified but they’ve not given us any reason to believe it. Unless her upcoming feature episode is wall-to-wall murder, pillage, rape, vengeance and malice then she is never going to stack up to our two home-grown villains. She has no personal beef with anyone that i can see, She seems to want Rumple to join her, and her fight against Emma seems to be driven by “fate” rather than enmity… her running around yapping on about this “final battle” is absurd! If her object is “bring the darkness” or claim back her dark curse with a new casting then why doesn’t she do it instead of just talk about it? If a saviour who can break the curse is the problem then why wouldn’t you just get rid of Emma straight away rather than pre-announcing the coming confrontation? And if the “final battle” is a solo mission for Emma, then why is the Black Fairy talking about it at all? None of this does anything to stop my suspicion that we are being deliberately misled and distracted

It's my Destiny – and there’s nothing you can do to change it. There’s that narrative challenge again. So, I’m guessing that someone will do something to change it? Something that requires sacrifice? Or perhaps the “destiny” is not quite what she expects it will be? And after being ironic about needing to propose before he gets sucked into another portal, we can guess what’s going to happen to Killian sooner rather than later…

Duty and the Crown - So much emphasis on duty throughout the episode, particularly around Snow and her people. I’m wondering if they will exit the show to return to the Enchanted forest to fulfil their duty to the crown. With Emma and Killian’s impending marriage, the show has been painstaking to show us that Emma won’t be alone if her parents are not there so it is possible that knowing this, they will feel ready to return

For my Mother – Gideon clearly has his own agenda going on and I’m suspecting that it revolves around protecting Belle; I’m sorry father, she’s my mother. Maybe one day you’ll understand. Says Gideon when he arrives with The Black Fairy - another cryptic statement that could easily mean something other than the obvious– what if the Black Fairy has threatened that if he doesn’t help her then she will force him to rip out Belle’s heart and crush it. I wonder if he will be made to do it?

Papa’s big mouth – in trying to one-up his mother, Rumpelstiltskin drops Gideon in the poo big-time. Why the fuck would you tell the crazy bitch that you knew that she was controlling your son’s heart? Why the fuck would you tell her that he was resisting her orders because of the strength of his affection for Belle? Honestly, he’s father of the year material. Hasn’t he put a freaking great target on both their heads?

#meta and discussion #ouat spoilers #ouat speculation #ouat discussion #ouat season 6 #awake #ouat episode analysis #late again #man i hate retcon

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exfrenchdorsl4p0a1 · 8 years ago

Text

How Paul Ryan Won Over Every House Republican (Except For One)

WASHINGTON ― In October 2015, with Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) vowing that he would restore regular order and give members more control over the House, nine Republicans ― 10, if you count one member abstaining ― said no to Ryan becoming speaker.

On Tuesday, only one Republican voted against him.

When the House GOP held their internal elections behind closed doors in November, at least four conservative lawmakers left the room so they wouldn’t have to audibly register their discontent with the speaker. Reps. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.), Walter Jones (R-N.C.), Paul Gosar (R-Ariz.) and Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) went into an antechamber of the sprawling Ways and Means Committee room and waited until the vote was over.

But exactly seven weeks later, only Massie, who is not part of the Freedom Caucus, spoke out in public opposition to Ryan.

“To drain the swamp, Daniel Webster,” Massie said, voting for the same Florida representative who ran for the speaker’s job in 2015. Webster didn’t win then either, but the desire to reform the closed procedures of the House that he ran on helped derail former Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio).

A little more than a year since Webster’s bid, not much has changed in the House. Contrary to his promises, members of the House Freedom Caucus told The Huffington Post, Ryan hasn’t opened up the legislative process. He may have even clamped down on it further, with GOP leaders now restricting which amendments can get a vote on appropriations bills.

That makes Ryan’s seemingly stronger position in the Republican conference just 14 months after his first speaker election all the more remarkable, especially when you consider the coup that Freedom Caucus members were plotting just before Election Day. The caucus chairman at the time, Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio), was supposed to run for speaker and prevent Ryan from rounding up the 218 votes necessary to keep his gavel. The thought was that the more-conservative lawmakers could at least negotiate for something if they blocked Ryan.

Then Donald Trump won the presidency, and the conservatives fell in line.

Members of the Freedom Caucus noted throughout 2016 that the procedural concerns they’d had with Boehner weren’t really improving. So if the conservatives was so concerned with process and regular order when they founded their group, and if those matters didn’t get better, why did every Freedom Caucus member vote for Speaker Ryan on Tuesday?

The answer for most members seems to be that Trump’s victory has changed what’s important.

“Right now, there’s a hope that we can all be unified and get some things accomplished in the first 100 days,” Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.), the caucus’ new chairman, told HuffPost this week.

“We’ve been in a divided government. I think everybody was willing to look at the 115th Congress in a new light with the understanding that more conservative legislative solutions will be ruled in order,” Meadows said.

Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) said he felt it was reasonable to give Ryan some time with this new administration, and Rep. Raul Labrador (R-Idaho) said the caucus wanted to give Ryan a chance “to prove that they can do the right thing.”

Neither Amash nor Labrador tried to suggest that Ryan had actually restored regular order in the House, although some caucus members did note that Ryan had made more of an effort to communicate with them than Boehner did. But members of the Freedom Caucus generally pointed to the idea of supporting Ryan as a sign of unified government when asked why they backed the speaker.

Of course, the other answer is that Ryan is actually stronger now. After Trump won the presidency and Republicans maintained a sizable majority in the House, it became much harder to argue that Ryan needed to go ― especially since Trump has seemingly made peace with the speaker, too.

Voting against Ryan when there’s no real push to get rid of him risks isolating yourself, and self-preservation is one of the strongest motives for a politician.

In the case of Walter Jones, an independent-minded Republican who has voted against his party’s choice for speaker in three elections, voting for Ryan this time around was a matter of political choice.

“The price you pay if you don’t support the speaker of the House, and the speaker of the House has no real opposition, it’s not very politically wise,” Jones told HuffPost.

“Get a strong vote, then that gives you some power,” he added. “But if you got one or two people voting no, it’s like a gnat,” he said.

Jones knows well the price of being a gnat. He’s been skipped over for an Armed Services subcommittee chairmanship for years and was removed from the Financial Services Committee in 2012. But Jones has a mission this year: He is trying to get a debate on the House floor over withdrawing troops from Afghanistan.

“So to me, I’d rather take my chances of at least asking the speaker to let me talk with him, and he looks at me and says, ‘Well, you know, Walter voted for me this time, so I might give him five minutes,’” Jones said.

The price you pay if you don’t support the speaker of the House, and the speaker of the House has no real opposition, it’s not very politically wise. Rep. Walter Jones

For other House members who walked out on the House GOP’s internal speaker vote in November, this week wasn’t the time to take a stand.

“You had an election in November. You have a president that’s shown a willingness to try to get leadership here to coalesce and work together. And I think you got to give him a shot,” Gosar told HuffPost.

Gosar, who is also part of the Freedom Caucus, didn’t pretend that Ryan had taken care of his procedural concerns, but he said he felt he had to give Ryan a chance.

As for Gohmert, he actually had a conversation with Ryan on Tuesday, the day of the speaker vote, in which he said Ryan assured him that the Trans-Pacific Partnership was “dead” and that the House wouldn’t legalize any undocumented immigrants before Trump had a chance to build a wall.

Gohmert said Ryan also threw in a commitment not to bring up any legislation that doesn’t have the support of a majority of Republicans. That’s the so-called Hastert rule, named after disgraced former Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) ― although Gohmert said Wednesday, “I’m not sure I want to call it the Hastert rule.”

Either way, Ryan’s promises got Gohmert to yes, and that is perhaps a testament to Ryan’s open door policy.

Ryan spent a significant part of September trying to bring in every Republican House member for a quick meeting.

“On September the 29th, I had a meeting with Paul Ryan over what committees I was on and what committees I wanted to be on,” said Rep. Randy Weber (R-Texas), one of the nine Republicans who voted against Ryan in 2015. “I told him at that time ... ‘I’m going to support you, Paul, for speaker.’ He said, ‘Well, I didn’t call you in here to ask you that.’ I said, ‘I know.’”

“I’m going to tell you,” Weber continued, “this is the time for us to come together and do what the American people want us to do.”

Weber also mentioned that in the 2015 election, he had made a commitment to Daniel Webster to vote for him and hadn’t wanted to go back on that ― which mirrored the explanation from another Freedom Caucus member, Rep. Ted Yoho (R-Fla.), who also voted against Ryan in October 2015.

Yoho seems to have been won over by some of Ryan’s lighter touches, like the revolving dinners the speaker has hosted with congressional lawmakers and his attempts to meet regularly with Freedom Caucus leaders.

You’re always on a short leash. Rep. Raul Labrador, on the position of the House speaker

Some Freedom Caucus members really do feel Ryan has taken strides to create a more open process. In October 2015, Rep. Dave Brat (R-Va.) laid out 10 principles for the next speaker that he said were essential to winning his vote. Even if some of those priorities remain unchecked ― like broadening opportunities for all lawmakers to offer amendments ― Brat feels good about changing his mind and voting for Ryan this time around.

“The process stuff I’m less worried about now, because the process is unified, right? The president and Ryan, the Trump agenda coupled with [Ryan’s] Better Way agenda, is going through. Everyone’s in agreement on that,” Brat said.

Still, if this detente feels a little forced, it probably should. Ryan has not truly resolved the most significant procedural issues that Freedom Caucus members have decried since their group was formed in early 2015. Massie, who’s keeping a low profile after being the single vote against Ryan this week, cited procedural concerns as his reason for standing against the speaker in November. And other House members who voted for Ryan acknowledge that things still need to change.

“You’re always on a short leash,” Labrador said.

The question is who’s holding the leash. Granted anonymity to discuss Ryan’s standing in the Republican conference, two House members independently said they would expect any anti-Ryan coup to originate with Trump. And if Trump isn’t asking for Ryan to go, it’s not his time.

-- This feed and its contents are the property of The Huffington Post, and use is subject to our terms. It may be used for personal consumption, but may not be distributed on a website.

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