#that would be in character as fuck for the wrights
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Something, something, throwing up 'bout my AU all over the page, something, something(?).
Wright & Co. Family bussines
So, this past year I've been thinking about an Ace Attorney AU. Nothing original, just the tri-color trio (Apollo, Athena and Trucy) in the original trilogy
You'd think it'd be the most common AU, but I've seen surprisingly few of them
(Unless I haven't searched well, in which case, post links👀)
So I gave myself the task of making one, because if you want something to go well you do it yourself :V
Clarifications before starting:
This OBVIOUSLY has spoilers for both trilogies, so I'll put a cut here
I decided to move some important moments to fit into the AU, such as:
The trial where Trucy's father disappears was taken by Mia and was for the accidental "death" of Thalassa, he is declared innocent but leaves Trucy because he does'nt think he's a good father to her. Phoenix's last case will still pass and Shadi will still be accused of murdering Magnify Graymare, but Trucy will not be the one to give Phoenix the note and she'll not recognize her father (but Phoenix will)
Simon's trial will pass two years before canon. Phoenix, blessed be his heart, adopts Athena because she has no one else and her relatives in Europe have not been brought up yet
Apollo will be found by Mia while she searches for some other relative of Trucy's and tells Phoenix, who immediately contacts child services to make the adoption
Apollo and Athena decide to keep their last names, Trucy is the only one to change it to Wright, but the three are comfortable with being called by Phoenix's last name
Nothing related to the newly formed Wright Family, Edgeworth decides to adopt Kay after Turnabout Reminiscences, just as he adopts Sebastian after Turnabout for the ages (I just saw that's the official name for The Grand Turnabout and it's DOPE AS FUCK)
Some other things:
Apollo will be 12 in this AU, as that would be the age calculated for this point in the series, Athena would follow with 7 and Trucy with 5
The three of them will reference their respective backstories, Apollo having knowledge about the spiritual channeling thanks to his time in Khura'in, Athena missing her mother and paying attention to Phoenix to become a lawyer and save Simon and Trucy having vague memories of when her mother was still with her
Apollo will have a tendency to use his Chords of Steel™ when he gets nervous and will switch to Khura'ines
Athena would still use the sound canceling headphones (or emotions, whatever) but as the story progresses she will take them off more and more
By the end of the second case, Trucy will start wearing the blue cape
Maya will be a kind of aunt/older sister, Pearl will be the cousin that no one can get angry with and Kay the bad influence gremling cousin(?)
Larry, Gumshoe and Edgeworth will be the ✨Cool Uncles✨. Gumshoe and Edgeworth will take a while to get there for obvious reasons, but they will
Each final case will be in some way related to the three children. This would be with Athena
Without further ado, let's go to the first game!
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
The first Turnabout:
There's not much to change here. Character introductions, dynamic statements, the odd clue about the children's talents and little triggers for Phoenix, but small ones, small ones
Turnabout Sisters:
Slight changes but nothing significant. Apollo's discomfort with the Kurain channeling technique is mentioned for being similar to those of Khura'in, Trucy is the one who notices the butler's lies, Athena hears April May's fear of Red White, Red White attempts to blackmail Phoenix out of the case by threatening to take the children away from him, and Apollo testify on Phoenix's behalf, Phoenix has major triggers here
Turnabout Samurai:
I don't know what I would change here. Gumshoe being rude to Phoenix and Trucy defending him, Maya dragging poor Apollo into fan conversations with Cody and Phoenix bringing up the issue of Dee Vazques' threat at trial, on a separate note, Edgeworth finds Trucy in the prosecution lobby and returns her to Phoenix
Turnabout Goodbyes:
Ohhhh boy, this is the one. Kay makes her debut introducing herself as Edgeworth's daughter/assistant, she is the one who asks them to represent him to Edgeworth's mortification and will help in the investigation with Gumshoe, the three children catch Edgeworth's desperation for this case which makes Phoenix more determined to help him. This is practically the final case for Athena, she sympathizes with Edgeworth's earthquake phobia, she hears von Karma's true intentions but doesn't know how to explain them, she is inspired by Phoenix's story of how Edgeworth and Larry defended him as a child and how that act made him become a defense attorney and decides to do the same for Simon, she feels a strange understanding in not wanting to believe that she killed his her father mother (the black psycholocks sound), she stays by his side when he makes the last testimony and explains his nightmare, even going so far as to grab his hand to give him strength and shout at Von Karma in the face when he tries to ridicule them, when Von Karma's breakdown occurs he tries to attack Athena in the purest Tronchatoro style and then she is saved by Edgeworth. In the end she starts calling him Uncle Edgeworth
Rise from the ashes:
Oh yes, the DLC case, I almost forgot. Apollo and Trucy go full on Gant and his tics, Ema and Apollo bond (no Ship here, just friendship), Athena jumps into full scolding when she sees that Edgeworth wants to resign as a prosecutor because "they didn't spend three days stressing for you to then throw it overboard" or something like that, everyone gets scared by the Blue Badger and everyone wants to kill(?) Meckins
Ahhhhh, finally, I took it off my chest
I have olabs for Justice for all and Trials & Tribulation, but I'll make separate posts for those, you say if you want to hear it or not
Byee~!
#ace attorney#phoenix wright#apollo justice#athena cykes#trucy wright#mia fey#maya fey#dick gumshoe#miles edgeworth#larry butz#This post took me longer than I thought#Wright & Co. Family Business AU#It's 12 in the morning I need to sleep#Edgeworth wants to be left alone#Athena ain't going to hear that shit (?)#Phoenix neither lol#ema skye#lana skye
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I know that how much Phoenix suspected Kristoph is very vague and I like the idea he had very little clue but honestly the thing that makes me think he did is Trucy. Because I think there is absolutely no way Kristoph didn't want her dead. He tried to kill vera, child murder isn't above him. And Trucy was a far far bigger weak chain in his scheme than she was but she escapes him basically unscathed other than minus one parent, who lets be real was canonically a POS who tried to kill a woman over a poker game. She saw him give her the diary page. She has psychic lie defecting abilities and he is constantly lying. She's absolutely the biggest direct threat to his scheme.
I feel like if Phoenix genuinely trusted Kristoph he would have absolutely had the opportunity to kill her and tie up that loose end. Trucy's savvy and able to protect herself but she's also a child. It is a miracle she's still alive by AA4 and I think that has to be because Phoenix was protecting her because he knew he couldn't trust Kristoph around her.
#ace attorney#phoenix wright#kristoph gavin#trucy wright#aa4#Apollo Justice ace attorney#7yg#also i do just kind of prefer the idea of that this was a battle Phoenix knew he was fighting every day and knew he would probably lose#thats a more enjoyable angst for me#and it kind of makes a bit more sense for why he cut everyone off and isolated himself#like he knew that he was in the lions den and didn't want anyone else in there with him woth the exception of trucy who was inndanger anyway#and he knew he was the only one who understood this battle enough to protect her#but alternative explanations can include a krisnix one where kristoph genuinely didn't want to hurt Phoenix's daughter#but honestly my krisnix take is that he would because that man is possessive as fuck and wouldn't want Phoenix giving his attention to her#or it could be that Phoenix is clueless and trucy isnt and shes the one actually fighting the battle and protecting him#but thats also very very sad and i don't want to do that to her#maybe theyre both protecting the other but refusing to tell each other because they dont want to put the other in danger#that would be in character as fuck for the wrights#trucy fully in a ya adventure we cant tell our parents about the unspeakable horrors because then they'll get hurt#while Phoenix is trying desperately to just keep them both alive but doesn't want to put that burden on a literal child#idk i do genuinely just think its way way sadder if Kristoph is a known threat through most of the 7yg#but they know they cants pull away from him even as he poses a direct threat to them because that makes him even more dangerous#beanix
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I wish ace attorney was slightly more mainstream so I had more people to yell at about the rampant mischaracterisation of phoenix wright because guys I’m losing my mind a little bit over what I’ve read and seen today
#not to be a he would not fucking say that#but#he would not fucking say that#ace attorney#phoenix wright#ESPECIALLY FEENIE AND BEANIX#I swear ppl will take one character trait and run with it and completely ignore the rest#especially with krisnix#I can’t start ranting I can’t#but I want to so bad#beanix#feenie#krisnix
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Forever obsessed with the way that Bridge to the Turnabout revolves around Morgan, Diego, Iris, and Misty deciding they alone know what's best for the people they care about, with that assumption being inherently false due to it having been constructed on outdated, heavily biased memories
Morgan wants Pearl to be Master because SHE wanted to be Master, so she assumes her plan's the best thing for Pearl, even though we can clearly see that it would ruin Pearl's life
Diego's using Maya as a proxy for Mia, believing that since he couldn't save Mia he has to save Maya, but his grief blinds him to the fact that he doesn't actually have a personal relationship with Maya
Iris is, once again, going along with a plan because she assumes others know best, but she's also an ambiguous enough character that you could interpret her as trying to fulfill an obligation to Pearl (her sister), Maya (the future Master), and Phoenix (who she wasn't able to protect last time)
And Misty is trying to save her daughter, but she's also the one who ran away when Mia and Maya were children, thereby putting them directly in danger of Fey clan politics in the first place
Diego, Iris, and Misty have multiple opportunities to tell Pearl, Phoenix, or Maya what's going on, but they're so set on viewing them a certain way that they can't see them as they really are. Like, Phoenix has been Maya's closest friend and biggest supporter since Mia's death, and he's a major caretaker of Pearl too, so why not let him know what's happening? Pearl genuinely doesn't know what Morgan's asking her to do -- she could almost certainly be talked out of the channeling if she understood that Maya would be in danger, so why not tell her? And Maya has already been involved in several extremely dangerous situations, including a previous plot by Morgan, so why not tell her? Especially since it's her life on the line?
Bridge to the Turnabout is a story of good intentions, but ultimately all that those good intentions did was rob Maya, Pearl, and Phoenix of their agency and lead to unnecessary tragedy
#listen I love diego as a character#but I'm also so goddamn angry at him#and I'm even more mad at Misty#at least Diego didn't have a choice in not being around y'know#but Misty fucks off for a decade and a half and then still assumes she can act in Maya's best interest#like I know it's terrible but when I got to the reveal that Elise was Misty#I was more upset that Maya would have to find out in such a traumatic way than the fact that she was dead#hooooo boy this is a long post#I could write a dissertation on bttt#one of these days I'll write a one-shot about it or something#I think Maya Phoenix and Pearl should get to be angry#ace attorney#phoenix wright#maya fey#pearl fey#morgan fey#diego armando#iris fey#misty fey#aa3 spoilers#rambles
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GUYS GUYS WAIT
ace attorney x dp fic/comic/whatever where phoenix and maya go on a trip to amity because ("nick, there's ghosts there!" "…aren't you a spirit medium?") or maybe phantom is the one who goes to japanifornia for some reason. either way shit happens and phantom gets arrested (and i guess jack and maddie puts some sort of "anti-phasing" technology on the walls?? so he can't escape??). and of course it's for a murder he didn't actually do and of course phoenix defends him in court
(you've heard of cross-examining the parrot, you've heard of defending an orca in court… and now, we defend a superhero ghost in court! is this even surprising at all? mildly.)
some things i see happening:
phantom asking, "aren't you weirded out by this whole thing? your client is a ghost, you know," in the detention room and phoenix (internally) going "having a spirit medium as a partner aside, you have NOT seen some of the cases i've worked on."
having paulina somewhere during the investigation. it's nice to have someone on phantom's side, but um (self explanatory, i think)
cross-examining maddie, who's testimony is basically "ghosts are fundamentally evil, it definitely killed them."
cross-examining valerie/red huntress, who i think would be one of the actual "i saw the murder happen" type of witnesses
i bet vlad would play a major part in the case. somehow. can't decide if i want him to be the killer or not, but i know his cross-examination would definitely be a pain in the ass
knowing ace attorney, i just know a shit ton (and by that, i probably mean all) of secret identities would be revealed. like phoenix having to prove that phantom is danny because that would mean that he was in X location at the time of the murder, as shown in this photo, and not Y location where the murder was previously confirmed to have actually occurred in.
(also i'm a slut for outsider povs not sorry)
update: wes. how could i forget about wes
#i'd try to do it myself but uh. i can't write any of these characters for shit#though i imagine danny would be like ''aw fuck i have an exam tomorrow i can't be in jail''#also i guess that the way dp ghosts and aa spirits can coexist in the same universe would be some fun worldbuilding if you're into that#aa x dp#ace attorney#aa#danny phantom#dp#phoenix wright#maya fey#danny fenton#paulina sanchez#maddie fenton#valerie gray#red huntress#vlad masters#wes weston#ary talks
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I have the urge to hc Tim as Mexican-American but then I get the worlds worst guilt for some reason and just slink away to my little hole
#Why do I feel shame for trying to project my ethnicity onto a fictional character lord help me#💀 what the fuck is this dumbass shit#marble hornets#tim wright#Sigh…#GOD IT WOULD BE SO SILLY TOO#why are my demons so mean to me
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hellooooo ive made a uc fankid oc <3 more about her under the cut, so that this post isnt a mile long <3
her name is Dyllin, because i had to, and shes SO cute. Shes got a little lopsided grin, and one dimple, and the cutest smattering of freckles on her nose right where her fur starts to turn pink. Both Rian and Atty are trans, so they raised her gender neutrally until she could tell them who she was herself (thus atty using they for her in that one art), and when she was about 3 she said she was a girl and now she wears all the pretty flowy dresses she can get her hands on (uncle foq supplies many of them)!
in the art above shes: 14, 16 (colored in), 19? (lines), ambiguous age younger than 3, 5?, and also 5. I think that ill mainly draw her as a little kid or around 14, cause those ages are where more interesting dynamics happen with people. Lots of funny kiddy moments, and growing into your own person moments. Which! is what im about in fankids! beyond just drawing a cute kid and having fun with design (which im also all about but just to give an explaination for why im drawing her at those ages). I dont think i want to go into adult ages for her yet, cause for the moment its about her being a fankid for me.
She takes after Chet and mostly Foq much more in personality than either of her actual parents, so shes a very carefree happy-go-lucky kid. To Rian's absolute horror (see below, for their rage at finding out), Foq flounces his way into being a archfey and becomes her warlock patron when shes a little kid, but its alright Aunt Scenda is her cleric deity so shes got a balance for his chaos! (she doesnt balance shit but it does make rian not kill foq over the pact so! whatever works!)
#my art#unprepared casters#off the rails#if you dont want to see her block this tag ->#dyllin wright#(no judgement if you do obvs)#anyway. ive been holding onto her since on the rocks part 2. before we knew they both made it#i made her and then went aw fuck i made a fankid (whoops) for characters that may or may not make it (whoops!)#SO ive been holding onto her for a while cause i was like. doubting myself if i should keep her officially cause while fankids are normal-#for me to make. they arent like usual content for dnd shows i think? it feels a lot more personal and i had a whole debate with myself for-#a WHILE. and it quickly morphed into a debate on whether i should POST her cause i uhh didnt stop drawing her? as you can see?#eventually decided that i would test the waters (talked with friends privately about it and also posted a more like usual oc with kor)#it all went well so i figured id wait til a between arcs week and then post her. and here we are!#we miiight have a post mortem still coming for 12 idr buuuut i want to show her now i think#aaaaaannnnnd POST
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tf2 movie directed by Edgar Wright (guy that made scott pilgrim vs the world movie) so that we can have Miss Pauling jump out of a window to avoid scout send tweet
#or just any of the mercs jumping outta a window tbh#tf2#team fortress 2#the comedic style of the tf2 comics and edgar wrights filmmaking are one to one for their mediums#edgar wright also does this scene transition where a character will just run away from the frame in the funniest fucking way#i think that would be very silly#this post is to cope w the potential terribleness of the mgs movie by imagining a better video game movie#do not ask me abt my opinions on that we would be here forever
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like yes yes wright is unkillable fell off a bridge ate glass got hit by a car etc etc etc can we also talk abt how hes a Time Traveller
#sure the more logical (and BORING) explanation is that the mason system is a simulation crafted from wrights recordings from tht ema badge#and tht immediately after getting disbarred phoenix started to record everything he does ever#and that ema had gave him a secret recording device (sure)#and the nail polish he shows 2 baby vera isnt actually the one from present day kristoph but rather he had spoken to kristoph at some point#and received nail polish from him.. except thats kinda Er cuz why would they have tht conversation in the present day @ kristophs jail cell#like yeah no it doesnt align with what we know and the characters action cuz for phoenix to hv known tht apollo and trucy were siblings#at the borscht club it wouldve meant that brushel gave a pic of thalassa to phoenix at said club while shadi was there#and if he did that shadi would beat the fuck out of him#but phoenix requesting apollo to be his attorney only makes sense if he had known he was trucys half brother#too many unexplained things this is why my explanation is the perfect correct one#the explanation being: WRIGHT IS A TIME TRAVELLER#aaing
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Was excruciatingly bored at work, so made some Ace Attorney tier lists and brackets! I know tumblr formats them weird in dash (but posting them one in a line would be a crime against humanity tbh) but if you click on them, they should show just fine!
They are, in order, my favorite character bracket, my sexy waifus bracket, my favorite cases bracket, my mechanics tier, my breakdown tier, my game tier, my case tier, my ship tier, my favorite character tier, and then my favorite character design tier!
#phoenix wright: ace attorney#apollo justice: ace attorney#ace attorney investigations#the great ace attorney chronicles#tagging every character would be a pain in the ass so i'm not going to#most of the brackets were completely unchanged#however i did add some additional categories in the ship one#i added better as exes#one sided pining#i've never heard of this but am intrigued#and have never heard of this and don't want to#which if you like any of the ships i hate#or the characters i don't like#it is not a personal attack#i'm not here to fight#but it is what it is#also i am fickle as fuck#wishy washy#and easily swayed#so my answers on something like this will change HOURLY#there are a few that never change#like the favorite character one always comes down to susato vs miles and miles always wins#and it also always comes down to bttt and stolen turnabout and bttt always wins#but a lot of the times it's just whatever my vibes are at the moment#like i'm queuing this nearly two months in advance#if i were to do it again the day it posted#i almost guarantee my answers would be WILDLY different#queue takumi defense squad
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no this is wrong. That did happen but the ace attorney fandom fully accepts and embraces Phoenix's uncanny ability to survive the most bullshit circumstances its an important part of his character
"he would not fucking say that" but about injuries. he would not fucking recover that quickly. those scars would not fucking heal like that. he would not be fucking able bodied after that. he would not be fully lucid after that.
#anyone else would fucking die#including apollo#i mean im sure some people complain about phoenix surviving but mostly i see people making jokes about it#and incorperating it into their phoenix wright characterisation#he gets hit by a speeding car and thrown into a lamp post and only gets a mild injury#he gets hit over the head with a fire extinguisher and gets full amnesia but only for a few hours and then he's literally fine#phoenix wright is just Like That and i would find it out of character for something to kill him so easily. He's practically unkillable
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I love me some homoerotic torture 🥰
#the letter#the letter visual novel#i have not included the visuals for this scene cuz i just#i hate it ashton should not have those nasty anime boy abs they are DISGUSTING#the scene was so hot and then they did that to him what the fuck why would you offend me like this#alsjks but yeah no i just love the fucked up dynamic between johannes and luke so much#and damn we kinda were robbed of a johannes chapter hes like way too good to just be a side character#but idk what would be in his chapter or how itd possibly fit cuz my assumption is itd be like the marianne chapter#where its like the perspective of someone whos simply on the side working for the wrights who gets involved by association#and as much as i am obsessed with marianne like it does kinda show that her chapter wasnt part of the original version of this game#so i think johannes would be in the same boat and i do wonder if he was considered against marianne and they went with the latter#i definitely get it but still i do wish we were given just a wee bit more information about him#like he and luke dont really like each other at all but theyre glued at the hip#they cannot function without each other and its clear that luke essentially owns johannes and he cant escape this dynamic#unless he wants to have his life utterly ruined#so you can definitely see their relationship and think johannes is just this obedient servant who does as hes told even when its fucked up#but then this scene happens and its clear hes enjoying himself he loves torturing pretty boys who can blame him#HES NOT A BAD GUY HE JUST LOVES TO DO SOME FILTHY SINFUL THINGS#but unlike luke hes actually like a nice guy like he has an iconic solidarity with marianne hes sweet with kylie#he shows favoritism towards hannah and tries to warn her about luke trying to kill her and encourages her to leave him#and hes said to have a husband and kids so like hes got a loving family at home that he probably never gets to see#idk its just really interesting seeing him flip flop and you have no clue what his motives are or what he truly thinks#does he assist luke in murder because luke holds his life in his hands and they have a deal#or does he do it because he has a thirst for blood? or maybe it started as the former and devolved into the latter#aaghhhh its just very frustrating i am feasting on crumbs here i need more of my man i fucking LOVE this guy so much#if he wants to do torture i think he should get to cuz working with luke wright and being his fucking babysitter is ass
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OC PROFILE #9: ORIGINAL UNIVERSE (UNTITLED VAMPIRE COMEDY)
"The tried and true way to bring people together is a good pot of spaghetti."
i.– basic info
⇴ name : Vinnie Wright ⇴ nicknames: Vin, Pasta Dude, Dork ⇴ age: 25 ⇴ birthdate: April 10, 1995 ⇴ star sign: Pisces ⇴ birthplace: Harwich, Massachusetts ⇴ hometown: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania ⇴ ethnicity: white ⇴ nationality: American ⇴ languages spoken: English, Spanish (conversational) ⇴ gender: nonbinary (they/he) ⇴ sexuality: bisexual
ii.– appearance
⇴ description: Vinnie is a tall person with an average build and short, messy black hair. They have heterochromia, one of their eyes are brown and the other is blue. They also have long fingers and a pasty complexion, causing people to think they're a vampire. ⇴ height: 5'11 (180 cm) ⇴ weight: unknown/irrelevant ⇴ other distinguishing features: long legs, lots of piercings, tall nose
iii.– personality
⇴ positive traits: loyal, humorous, adaptable, agreeable, confident ⇴ neutral traits: talkative, idealistic, dramatic, carefree, sentimental ⇴ negative traits: ditzy, gullible, aimless, inconsistent, distracted ⇴ likes: engineering, pasta, his cats, making friends, relaxing ⇴ dislikes: surprises, being bossed around, math, cucumbers, store bought pesto sauce ⇴ fears: none. dead serious, this dude fears just about nothing. except for maybe puking. ⇴ hobbies: making pasta, watching video essays, eating pasta, improvising weapons, playing with their cats ⇴ talents: engineering, riflery, agility, useless trivia, cooking
iv.– abilities
⇴ weapons: crossbow, pistol, hunting rifle
v.– relationships
⇴ friends: Jasper, Rhiannon ⇴ enemies: any and all vampires (bc jasper and rhiannon hate them) ⇴ love interest: none, single
vi.– backstory
Vinnie was born in Harwich, Massachusetts to two mothers. Being born in "Lovecraft Country", they were drawn to stories of the supernatural, especially of vampires. As a kid, they wanted to be a cryptozoologist. Even as a kid, Vinnie had a talent for building things. They would build structures out of Tinker Toys and contraptions out of Snap Circuts. In middle school, they led their school to an award in a national robotics competition, which solidified their love for engineering. Vinnie attended MIT for college and graduated with a master's in mechanical engineering. They then moved to Pittsburgh and met Jasper Pedroza Veracruz and Rhiannon Cage. They became fast friends, due to Vinnie's extensive knowlege of the paranormal (namely vampires). Vinnie never found out that their "club" was actually made to kill vampires until they were in WAYYYY too deep. Still, he is good friends with Jasper and Rhiannon.
vii.– other
⇴ fashion style: just likes black and trench coats ⇴ face claim: Nick Pervak (supposedly? i actually don't know who that is) ⇴ voice claim(s): Freddie Dredd ⇴ theme song: Bela Lugosi Is Dead- Bauhaus ⇴ assorted fun facts: They have two cats named Bela and Boris. Their favorite movie is Ghostbusters. They have a master's degree in mechanical engineering. Their piercings include many ear piercings, a septum piercing, and a tongue stud. They have anemia. All of their piercings are sterling silver.
#long post#oc#original character#oc profile#my oc#original universe#oc: vinnie wright#fucking love this guy#i would absolutely be friends with this dude#and yes i will make profiles for the elusive jasper and rhiannon#as you can see vinnie has a pretty average backstory
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Still clinging on to the hope that TMP is going to be non-eye coded. I hope it’s like web or spiral or fuck if it’s corruption or lonely that’s be great!
#Also I’m SO pumped#that trailer fucked severely#I love you already uhhh boss lady#you talk like Elias which means you’re already my favorite <3#do kinda dislike the idea that it will once again be just eyes#but oh well#also I hope Gwendolyn has connections to someone gotten by Jonah#either a family member via Elias or if she IS just post transition Elias#then maybe a close friendship with the now late James Wright?#oh wait…. I guess that wouldn’t really be possible given that if she did work at the institute she would be dead now#also I know I said I didn’t want any characters making a reappearance and that tmp should be able to stand on its own#BUT DAMN IT I MISS MY BABY GIRL LITERALLY GOING THROUGH WITHDRAWALS#we got so little crumbs about him he was such a mystery for the entirety of TMA and was never truly solved so much left unanswered#god… I know objectively it’s be better if past characters weren’t involved#but c’mon just a little bit. maybe just like a one off statement from jonah Magnus or even just one of his suitors I mean people who knew hi#m. hell if Jon and Martin make a cameo then maybe he could too. just once just like a throwaway line#c’mon give me anything literally anything I’m starving over here
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I dispute that it's indisputable! 😁
What we've got here (apart from shoddy retcon writing, typical MCU 🙄) is a problem of synecdoche.*
Shoddy writing/retcons:
Bucky in CATWS:
A) doesn't remember the Winter Soldier's mission earlier on the same week because he has been wiped.
(He goes back to his handlers to ask them where he knows Steve from. Pierce lies and says he's recognising him from earlier on in the week. And Bucky is like 'that sounds wrong but I don't know enough about my own memories to dispute it.')
B) post-wipe, Bucky doesn't remember this or Steve, again.
Bucky in CACW:
A) Wakes up after Zemo trigger-worded him and doesn't remember what the Winter Soldier just did, that same day (has to ask Sam and Steve what he did.)
Even though he hasn't been wiped!
But... he has received a head wound, thanks to accidentally knocking himself out ogling Steve's biceps Bucky you useless bisexual.
So it could be wipe/head-trauma = memory loss of last 'mission.'
B) Tells Tony he remembers 'them all'
but: i) it's Tony, he's trying to kill Bucky at the time, obviously he's not gunna be honest with that guy! and: ii) we know Bucky is lying.
(Because of the above 👆 and also because -- as @fearlessinger pointed out -- it's consistent with Bucky's pattern of behaviour of flat-out lying or eliding the truth about his own memories, turning his weakness into a strength, in order to get them to do XYZ.
And there is nothing wrong with him doing this. He doesn't owe anyone the details of his mind, not even Steve.)
Also note: Tony is someone who has already proven he doesn’t give a shit about Bucky’s innocence, he’s going to kill him even though he knows he’s innocent, as he says he doesn’t care.
There’s no point Bucky wasting his breath telling the truth to this guy!
So whereas Bucky lies to Tony when Tony is trying to kill him, Bucky doesn’t lie to T’Challa when T’Challa is trying to kill him (’I didn’t kill your father’).
Because, unlike Tony, T’Challa might be honourable enough to stop if he finds out Bucky is innocent, or reasonable enough to believe him.
(Sadly, it doesn’t work. But the fact that T’Challa didn’t go on to kill Zemo, when he found out he had killed T’Chaka, bears out Bucky’s gut instinct that this is a man who could be reasoned with... Unlike short king.)
C) Bucky has shot Natasha twice, on missions as the Winter Soldier, but shows zero signs of remembering her -- and thus no signs of recognising her (which Nat comments on with exasperation, while the Winter Soldier is strangling her.)
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Bucky didn't give Zemo a mission report on December 1991.
What Zemo asked Bucky about was where Bucky was kept in 1991.
He wanted to know that, because that's where the records of Bucky's missions are kept. On file. Not in Bucky's Swiss cheese head (sorry bb! 😭)
Zemo didn't need a mission report, as he already knew what happened. That's why he knew that that particular mission would be useful in his plot.
With Zemo canon seems to contradicts itself a little, because when Steve asks Bucky about what Zemo wanted, Bucky can't remember what he just did as the Winter Soldier... but with effort he can recall what Zemo was asking him about just prior.
During this sequence, we keep cutting back and fore between Zemo and Steve n' Co. So it's possible that Zemo asked Bucky about where he was kept in Siberia, before he was trigger-worded (ergo: not occluded by the Winter Soldier altered mind state), and this was while we were cutting away to Steve n' Co, and that's why Bucky is able to remember it later on.
The interesting implication is that, on top of erasing his memory of himself, Hydra's mind-wipes ONLY erase memories gained during periods of mind-control (ie. during missions). Not what was happening to Bucky immediately prior to being mind-controlled.
(IE. So after a wipe he might remember ...being taken out of cryo, being thawed, put in the chair, and the handler beginning to read the trigger words, etc... but then his memory is a blank for his whole mission, the period of actual mind-control. 🤔 Hmm... )
The headwound Bucky received probably doesn't block out memories as comprehensively as Hydra's mind-wiping technique.
(Sidenote: I wonder if Zemo ordered the Winter Soldier to take that roof helicopter and fly to Siberia, expecting the Avengers to follow him / not expecting the Avengers to fail to stop him, go there, find the record of the Starks deaths which would eventually cause a schism when they got round to viewing it, etc etc? If so, Steve catching Bucky would've thrown a wrench in those works. Maybe Zemo going to Siberia himself, shooting the other Soldiers and pulling the video out, might've been his Plan B? 🤔 )
Anyway, back on topic:
Bucky giving mission reports immediately post-op doesn't indicate that he is allowed to keep memories of his past missions, because he's delivering those reports before he is mind-wiped.
After he is wiped, canon shows (never mind tells!) he doesn't remember the mission.
(If TFATWS is allowed to ignore canon, frankly so are we!)
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It's self-contradictory to posit that Bucky is somehow both a living database of past Hydra missions and cannot trust if his memories are real or reliable.
It's either one or the other; it can't be both. Hydra can't be relying on Bucky for accurate mission reports if he can't say whether or not what he remembers is accurate.
While it's a common headcanon, nothing in canon (tie-in books don't count) suggests that Bucky is unsure of the reality of the memories he has, post escape from Hydra.
Bucky knows what he remembers is real; it's the not-remembering that's the problem. The absence of memories, not the quality of memories.
(Frankly, they haven't given him enough screen time to establish something as complex as extant-but-unreliable memories!)
The idea he has no emotional attachment to his memories is, likewise, directly contradicted by canon where it's this very emotional attachment to his returning memories that breaks Bucky out of mind-control in CATWS.
In CACW, it's been two years since Bucky was last mind-controlled and brain-damaged, and has been free to heal his mind and write down everything he recalls.
He knows he didn't plant that bomb, he knows that he doesn't do things like that any more, and he doesn't hesitate to protest his innocence to Steve, or even to strangers.
This is not the behaviour of a man who is unsure about who he is or what he has done.
This is the behaviour of a man who is certain of the content of his memories. He knows who he is.
Look at him talking to the fruit stall holder, too. That's Bucky. That's not someone confused about who they are or lacking an identity.
So Bucky's personality is not absent before he gets a headwound...
(Neither was Clint's under Loki's control -- deleted scenes prove this -- Clint and Erik Selvig were themselves under Loki's control, they were just.... controlled. The Mind Stone’s subtle mind-control is not comparable to Hydra’s blunt ‘erase his entire personality’ mind-control; and in any case, Bucky is not under the influence of that erasing mind-control, while recovering his personality. Also, Bruce; waking up after Hulk gets a head wound doesn't mean Bruce's personality didn't exist properly until Hulk got a head wound.)
...It's just that, coincidentally prior to the head wound, Bucky was surrounded by people he couldn't trust so much.
(Because they were, variously, trying to kill him, Warmachine, CIA agents, a creepy shrink, Captain America who was there to arrest him, etc.)
IMO, Bucky loosened up after the headwound because it coincided with him finding out he really could trust Steve (see below 👇), and because of relief that he still had his memories when he awoke -- that the headwound hadn't taken them.
Thinking about it... this must be Bucky's first ever experience of waking up after mind-control and brain-damage to discover that he is still himself, he still has his memories, even the ones from long before! 🤔
Compared to everything else he suffered in the movie thus far, no wonder he was cheerful!
He didn't suddenly develop his personality again. He already had it, he was just Going Through It, before. 😤
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Prior to that...
He is not tense because he's still the Winter Soldier. He is tense because he is Bucky Barnes (as he tells Zemo), and Bucky Barnes has PTSD, of which hypervigilance is a symptom.
And when Steve shows up in full Captain America regalia and says 'do you know me?'
...Well, who is he asking about?
Captain America, or Steve?
Bucky's answer is ambiguous because the question itself is ambiguous, not because the content of his memories is ambiguous, or his sense of self.
He is only nervous (as Steve notes) because he doesn't know whether he is facing his friend Steve or Captain America, Here In his Official Capacity.
(And he's right to be nervous because, technically, it's the latter -- good instincts, Buck!)
So Bucky is facing what looks like Captain America, and nervously disclaiming. Calling him Steve to try and switch Cap from Official Mode back into safe mode (his friend, Steve). Kind of like the inversion of Steve asking ‘which Bucky am I talking to?’ (Nonsense question, writers, there’s only one!)
But Steve -- perhaps flustered by Sam's voice in his ear -- doesn't realise this.
He thinks what Bucky is seeing is plain old Steve Rogers, standing in front of him, asking 'do you know who I am?' (Just a boy, standing in front of another boy, asking him to love him)
Whereas in fact he is dressed in full Cap gear, complete with shield and cowl, and asking in a grim voice. So it's actually Captain America standing in front of The Winter Soldier, asking The Winter Soldier in a grim a voice if he knows who Captain America is.
So that's the question Bucky answers.
He's not lying, precisely. He's just... not answering the question Steve thinks he's asking.
He's not confused.
On that note:
"It always ends in a fight."
This is a statement from a man who knows something from experience. Not a man who is unsure of what his experience actually is.
(If Seb had delivered this line nervously, as if he was unsure? That would be different. But he didn't...)
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*Synecdoche: (ie. in this case, one dream being taken as a flashback and one flashback being taken as evidence of the existence of multiple flashbacks, multiple memories.)
The idea that TFATWS proves Bucky remembers them all...
...does it tho??
IIRC, in canon we only see one dream Bucky has about a mission.
But that doesn't prove:
a) that he remembers all of them,
b) that that dream is a memory.
The show doesn't explicitly say that that nightmare is a memory. Even in therapy, when his 'therapist' discusses his nightmares, neither she nor Bucky describes them as memories or flashbacks.
Plus, we know that Bucky must have looked up the details of 'his' crimes in an external source.
Nothing in the nightmare we saw would explain how Bucky knows who that kid he shot was, who the kid's dad was, where his dad (Yori) currently lives, etc etc.
Bucky could not have plucked any of that information out of the nightmare we saw. And the kid wasn't important, he was just a bystander / collateral damage, so his name wouldn't have been part of an original mission Hydra briefing, for example.
So we know Bucky got intel on these missions from somewhere else.
To this end... Bucky having a List of all the 'Winter Soldier's victims' doesn't prove he remembers them. It only proves he has a List.
But because we don't know where the names on the List came from, we can't say they came from his memories.
We do know that it's part of the conditions imposed upon Bucky in order for him to receive a pardon.
(Rule Number 3: he has to 'Make Amends' to those on the List. He even has to do it in a particular way (Rules 1 & 2), trot out an Official Catchphrase while doing so, and give them a customer service smile. 😬 Poor guy!)
The whole thing is officially sanctioned.
So if anything it looks like the government has said to Bucky 'in order to get a pardon you need to make a List of who your victims were, and who benefited from your missions, and then make amends to/about everybody on that List -- without doing anything illegal or hurting anyone, which we won't really bother to supervise, if y’know what I mean -- and keep us up to date until it's done.'
It could be that he has been getting case files (he must have, to know what he knows), to decide who should go on the List, and find their deets, and that revisiting these case files has been giving Bucky nightmares. 😥
But that doesn't prove the List came from Bucky's memories!
The nightmares only get mentioned in therapy because they're talking about the Amends, which are apparently not helping with the nightmares. This seems like a weak attempt to imply a connection -- as if the List was established from/for the nightmares (which may or may not be memories), and the Amends are meant to make Bucky feel better about them to reduce his nightmares (bullshit!).
But that can't be... because the pardon (of which the List/Amends are a condition) predates the nightmares. It’s a bit of a chicken/egg scenario.
We never saw Bucky having nightmares, in canon, prior to the existence of this Pardon/List -- even though we saw him sleep (also note no sign of nightmares when he’s in Louisiana, not thinking about the List!)
To me it seems like cause and effect: that researching for the pardon/List is exposing Bucky to new explicit details of the Winter Soldier’s missions, which is giving Bucky nightmares and making him feel worse. 😕
“That line was an interesting moment. At the time, the choice I was making is that [Bucky] had realized there was no way he was getting out of there, and someone was gonna die, whether it was gonna be him, Steve or Tony. When he says that line, to me, it was a turning point — he was, like, ‘Okay, I know what you want me to say, and I’m just gonna say it.’ When someone comes at you over and over again, and they can’t hear you, they can’t see you’re pleading with them, you’re trying to figure out how to get through to them and they just won’t accept it, at some point you just give in, and you go, ‘that’s right, that’s what you want.’ Of course [Bucky] didn’t remember them all.” — Sebastian Stan
#LONG POST#bucky barnes#antitfatws#bucky meta#meta#mcu#mcu meta#bucky's recovery meta#bucky's medical stuff#bucky's recovery#cacw meta#catws meta#my meta#yet again the mcu stumbles upon a 'this would make so much sense if this character was actually just hydra' plot 🙄#why don't I already have a poor bucky tag cuz#POOR BUCKY#amnesia#ptsd mention#me seeing the word 'indisputable' going into full phoenix wright mode#RED FLAG TO A BULL#me realising I called it bucky's swiss cheese head and zola is swiss#despicable.#jail for me#also: someone who did have an unreliable memory CANNOT BE TAKEN AT FACE VALUE when they say they remember everything#because how would they know?#it's funny to see ppl shocked by seb's take cuz it just seemed like such an obvious lie to me#it just seemed such an obvious 'fuck it idc just tell him what he wants get it over with' line delivery#of course he didn't remember them all
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I FINISHED TURNABOUT BIG TOP! Which means here is my updated autopsy report ranking for cases and characters!
Both have actually shifted around quite a bit so you may find it an interesting update. I'll explain some of my current thoughts on the new placements as well as my thoughts on 2-3 in general below a break if ur curious.
Okay so first thing let's just address the elephant in the room: We have an all new category on the character ranking!! One that I sure wish I didn't have to include but unfortunately Big Top made some... very Interesting decisions with specific characters. It would be one thing if this content was featured and then addressed, but it was particularly off-putting and frustrating to me that everything was played entirely straight?? So yeah. New lowest of the low category for a couple freaks who are actively courting a 16 year old!!!! yayyyyyy
OTHERWISE, I do have to say.... I was really pleasantly surprised at 2-3 as a case. I can say now I completely understand people having a distaste for it especially in regards to the unsavory age gaps, but literally..... almost everything else in this case was well put together and generally on-par with the quality of the rest of the series? As an overall package I actually still find Turnabout Samurai infinitely more dull. Like, maybe it's just because the lead-up to actually playing it was so uniquely frustrating for me and forcibly lowered my expectations by a ton, but there was so much good shit in Big Top. Maya, in particular, is in top form during this case. She is so fucking funny. I loved almost every word that came out of her mouth and it really solidified her top spot in the character ranking for me at present. But past that, I think the second half of this case is EXTREMELY strong compared to its opening half. I'll admit during the first trial section I was getting kinda tired with it and finding it hard to care given how much I just do not root for Max, so I had tentatively placed it at bottom of C tier. But then once von Karma arrives in the investigation section and then Acro's storyline enters the equation I really think it finds its footing. I actually found the last few scenes of the trial very emotionally effective, especially Acro's breakdown at the witness stand and mentioning how he couldn't follow through with taking his own life to escape his crime due to his desire to see his brother wake up. Like... I legitimately teared up.
And FURTHERMORE.... von Karma. Oh my god. I don't know if I'm picking up on anything here, nor do I want to know until I maybe see it for myself, but something about her conduct in the final trial really spoke to me. I feel like a surface read makes it apparent that she's just as frustrated as she is because she's losing the case to Wright again, and I do think that's a huge factor still to her reaction... but I don't know, I felt something else with her. Particularly when it came to her reaction towards Acro's attempted murder of Regina. I felt like she came across as PARTICULARLY disgusted towards that revelation and towards her own client in a way that subtly humanized her and had me just CHUCKLING AND CHORTLING in evil anticipation towards potential character arcs. I really hope I've grasped onto something here because... I love her so much. I love the idea that in spite of her reputation we're still gonna get to see this spark of humanity light up. AHHHHH.
Okay. Anyway. In summary:
I understand why people have a distaste for Big Top now, but it does not change the fact that I desperately wish I had been given the chance to experience the story myself going into it without that baggage. It genuinely did not help my experience in the slightest to just have that cloud of expectation over it and it is generally irritating that I couldn't even bring up that I was playing it without people jokingly apologizing to me or telling me that I wouldn't be able to handle it or whatever. Really not a great vibe.
As a case, it has a couple MAJOR, GLARING points of discomfort but I'm still really glad I gave it a chance and was able to find a lot of good in it anyway. It inspired me to unfortunately lower some of my other rankings because this is what I kind of consider a more middle-of-the-road quality for the series now. Solid B tier. I have played much worse.
Maya Fey is a god damn treasure.
As for some of the other character shifts, particularly in relation to some of the characters who got bumped from S to A rank, that's less because I decided I like them less now than I did when I first ranked them and more that I decided my initial interpretation of my feelings was incongruent in some cases. Like, for example I LOVE Mia I really do she's great, but in no way at this current time is she on the same level as Maya or Lana for me. So I just needed to adjust the ratios a bit.
Anyway, I'll be back eventually with posts about the next case and the last one of AA2! :3 I hear it's pretttyyy long but pretttyyy damn GOOD. Can't wait.
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