#tenets of the dark brotherhood

[ciceroandlucien]

Made myself a little 5 tenets banner from what I had around the house.

[theladygrim]

[bucca2]

okay not to wax poetic about a minor side character in Skyrim that annoys the fuck out of most people, but it really does sadden me that most people are like “he’s annoying, kill him!” and then do no self reflection on the fact that they only killed him because of a petty personal gripe and because they were sent to do so by a power tripping traitor who LATER ALSO TRIES TO KILL THE LISTENER THEMSELVES.

For a long time I’ve had Thoughts™ on the phenomenon of Gamers (derogatory) who treat any NPC who is even slightly an inconvenience with disproportionate and often violent vitriol, but this post is already getting long. General musings on the tragedy of Cicero’s character and how it’s objectively the wrong choice to kill him below.

Thanks to my partner @wrenanigans I’ve had reason to re-examine Cicero’s character, and his past just makes me so deeply sad. Of course, his journals only cover DB-related events, so maybe he had a personal life he just didn’t write about, but it kind of struck both of us that he feels the loss of his fellow DB members so keenly and yet never really mentions any personal relationships outside of obligation to his fellow assassins. (i.e no family or lovers pre-insanity when he was a normal, extremely capable man) Like of course he went insane. The organization that was his entire life’s purpose not only promoted him to a position where he could no longer do what he joined them to do, but then he watched the organization dissolve around him and all his friends be slaughtered.

Then he was alone with the Night Mother waiting for her to talk to someone and give him direction for eight fucking years!!! Of course he went completely off the deep end! If I was isolated, paranoid (but is it paranoia if they’re actually out to get you?) and constantly on survival mode for that long, I’d be relieved if being a little quirky and doing little dances was the extent of my deviant behavior! (The murder comes with being in the Dark Brotherhood, so I don’t wanna hear any whining about him being stabby. Murder isn’t OK if the Dragonborn does it, but suddenly immoral if people you don’t like do it. In video games.)

I think for most people who don’t put much thought into Cicero and his actions, they just vaguely think “oh, Cicero betrayed the family and tried to kill Astrid, so killing him is justified irrespective of her later betraying us”, which is simply not true. There’s a very interesting post I saw floating around lately about how you can’t treat religion in fantasy worlds like TES the same way you would with religious groups IRL, because in TES there is tangible proof that gods exist, and they can and will fuck with the mortal world for their own whims. The point of the DB quest line is that the Tenets matter, and straying from them and the Night Mother almost snuffed the DB out for good. The narrative of the game explicitly justifies Cicero’s actions and QUITE LITERALLY tells you that killing Cicero is not the right call.

TES has a lot of creative interactivity with picking your own outcomes and going with your own solutions, but quests don’t usually end with “go kill this guy. but you can also spare him… ;)” They usually don’t give you an old wise dude whose spirit you can summon who tells you not to kill that clown. And then if you spare Cicero, he comes back and is a potential companion. Like…I don’t know how much more obvious it can get that you’re not supposed to kill Cicero. I get for most people it’s not that deep, but this is TES. We talk about lore here.

[unironicallytes]

HELLO EVERYONE I HAVE SOME THINGS TO SAY ABOUT ASTRID!!!

(Discussion and sharing of thoughts encouraged even if they're opposing viewpoints, please join me in the sandbox)

In working on Dear Brother's timeline, I've been revisiting a lot of the canon even around the Skyrim era, and I find Astrid so much more compelling and sympathetic nowadays. I used to dislike her a lot, because I was coming fresh off of Oblivion and also hadn't deep-fried my brain in lore yet. I was playing the Skyrim DBh with @orfeoarte last night and we got to talking about her again, specifically about how she's probably having a crisis of faith during the game.

Like, in thinking about the entire Dark Brotherhood questline from Astrid's perspective ... she's the matron of the last Sanctuary. They haven't had a Listener since 4E188 - that's 14 whole years without a religious leader, organizational leader, or any of the Black Hand for that matter. (As far as I can tell, Rasha sounded like a Speaker from Cheydinhal, and he lasted until 4E189 according to Cicero's journals.)

Basically, up until this point, Falkreath stayed functional due to Astrid's leadership alone, and Astrid herself went through that bearing the knowledge that their gods had probably abandoned them. That's a lot to deal with. Imagine the absolute inner turmoil of turning your back on the Brotherhood's religion, because there's no point in holding to a spiritual leader that refuses to lead. Maybe Astrid had spent a few of those 14 years mourning, wondering why she'd received no guidance; but eventually, she had to amputate that part of herself and move on because no one else was going to do it for her. She would've needed to focus on the survival of the order that was left, rather than cling to the ashes of the one that was dead and gone. Besides, the latter seems to have collapsed in on itself because the Hand couldn't even agree on how to move forward, so why would she follow their lead?

All that being said, 14 years pass, Astrid keeps it together, keeps the last remaining family together ... then suddenly out of fucking nowhere, Cicero shows up with the Night Mother herself, spouting the old ways. A bit jarring, a bit poor taste - it's not his fault, he has no idea what this Sanctuary might have been through. He hasn't interacted with family members at all for these 14 years, and he probably expected them to be exactly as he remembered them. And then, barely any time into Cicero's arrival, the Night Mother finally chooses someone, and it's Astrid's newest recruit.

Like, how dare she, after all these years of abandonment? Wouldn't that infuriate you? In Astrid's eyes, the Night Mother hasn't done shit for her. No wonder Astrid's immediate reaction and tone is basically "are you fucking kidding me" followed by "I need time to process this." It makes a lot of sense that she resists the return to tradition, both from a leadership level and from a personal level. No wonder she shatters through Tenet 1 in front of Cicero and everyone, no wonder she tries to get you removed from the equation, too.

Extremely interesting character right there!!! I am spinning her on the microwave plate-- ..... ....... ah, well, uh. I suppose the Penitus Oculatus did that already, poor choice of words.

[dazzlerazz]

Maybe I said it before but it DESERVES to be said again, Cicero was ABSOLUTELY in the right and it’s even told to us at the end of the storyline but also Astrid fucking broke EVERY SINGLE RULE the Brotherhood ever stood for OVER THE COURSE OF THE GAME, further proving she was never qualified to be a leader in the first place

Tenet I. Never dishonor the Night Mother. To do so is to invoke the Wrath of Sithis.

A good majority of the questline focuses on Astrid not respecting the Night Mother in the slightest, she doesn’t even welcome her into Sanctuary to begin with

Tenet II. Never betray the Dark Brotherhood or its secrets. To do so is to invoke the Wrath of Sithis.

Astrid betrays the entire brotherhood and has their Sanctuary burned to the ground because she ratted the player out to the penitus oculatus

Tenet III. Never disobey or refuse to carry out an order from a Dark Brotherhood superior. To do so is to invoke the Wrath of Sithis.

After the player is revealed to be the listener, they effectively become Astrid’s superior. She tells the player not to go to Amaund Motierre after the Night Mother explicitly told them to. Astrid’s exact words are “No. No! Listen, I don’t know what’s going on here, but you take your orders from me. Are we clear on that?” Eventually, she does come around, but it’s undeniable that she refused the order from her superior. And it’s not as if she didn’t know, the player had to tell her the words the Night Mother told them to confirm that they were indeed the Listener. In Cicero’s journals, it tells us that nobody but higher ups such as himself and Astrid knew these words. Cicero as her keeper, and Astrid as the leader.

Edit: Passage from Cicero’s Journals, in reference to what I said about only Higher Ups knowing the words

4th of Evening Star, 4E 189 Today, Rasha declared himself Listener, claiming the Night Mother spoke to him at last. But when questioned, he could not name the Binding Words. Liar! Deceiver! His charade must not stand.

Tenet IV. Never steal the possessions of a Dark Brother or Dark Sister. To do so is to invoke the Wrath of Sithis.

Astrid tells you to go through Cicero’s room and steal his journals. That’s how we know he went to the Dawnstar sanctuary.

Tenet V. Never kill a Dark Brother or Dark Sister. To do so is to invoke the Wrath of Sithis.

Need I even say it? Astrid commands you to kill Cicero at the Dawnstar Sanctuary, which you may or may not do as the player.

I love the writing of the questline, it’s chefs kiss

[unsettlingcreature]

"It's warm, there are no dragons, Nazir is a great chef and there's just a lovely sense of community. Sure, there's the weird corpse that the clown oils daily and people frequently come in dripping blood, but every family has its quirks. They even have a pet! It's not a normal one like a dog but Lis just has more legs to love you with."

this random guard followed me into the dawnstar sanctuary and just started making himself at home??

[mazurga]

Tenets of the Dark Brotherhood

[teecupangel]

Is it cringe of me to believe that Mary Read/James Kidd’s daughter was fathered by Edward? Yes. Do I enjoy the concept and drama it comes with though? Yes.

I don’t think so. For me, the narrative gave enough leeway (Edward’s awkward questioning on who the father is was quite telling of the kind of relationship they had) that the idea of Edward fathering Mary’s daughter is feasible.

The drama would also be very, very enjoyable.

Especially if we push aside Edward and focus on the Edward Kenway’s children drama XD

Haytham didn’t know about her but Jenny did. She remembered how her father looked for her because she was the child of one of the friends he lost (Jenny thinks it was more than that but she had no proof other than the way Edward talked about this supposed ‘friend’).

And to hammer in the foil aspect between her and Haytham, she’s found by Milo a few days after Edward’s death and she’s adopted by Milo to be trained as an Assassin.

They don’t necessarily know she’s Edward’s kid until she gets older. She had Mary’s dark hair and eyes but her facial structures looked too similar to both Edward and Mary to be a coincidence.

Milo tells her about her possible ‘ancestry’ and she becomes more or less his adopted daughter.

So when Haytham kills Milo, she sets out on a quest for revenge and gets suckered in the whole prologue of AC3 and Rogue plotline.

.

Unorganized Notes:

Achilles still trains Ratonhnhaké:ton but she becomes Ratonhnhaké:ton’s other mentor (she’s not officially a mentor though)

Haytham knows they’re half-siblings but doesn’t really care (or so he tells everyone he doesn’t care). He does feel that she is what Edward Kenway wanted for his child. A talented Assassin who upholds the Creed and tenets.

She believes Haytham is sullying the Brotherhood because he’s a Kenway. She’s also slightly jealous because he had spent his childhood with their father and angry that he would walk away from their father’s (family’s) legacy.

Anne follows her because she’s worried and sometimes act like an understanding grandma and a cool grand-aunt to Ratonhnhaké:ton. She and Achilles have this ‘I can’t stand her/him’ routine going on but everyone can see that they’re just acting like that and they are worried for one another.

How does her inclusion in Rogue change the plot? Idk, you decide XD

[mehrunessdagon]

been having massive brainrot about my recent skyrim mc so here are some things about her that i would like to share:

unironic mehrunes dagon and namira worshipper

joined the stormcloaks not because she particularly cares about the politics of skyrim (shes a breton, she has enough internal strife to think about) but because oh boy wouldnt it be fun to be part of a revolution

doesn't have any problems with the empire, just the fourth era thalmor (understandably)

thinks the thalmor weren't actually too bad during the first and second altmeri dominion(s), just hates those in the current era. both because of the obvious xenophobia and because they took credit for "saving the altmeri people" post-oblivion crisis

^^ part of the reason she worships dagon, she believes their failure to prevent another oblivion crisis will lead to people questioning them and ultimately their downfall in tamriel

joined the dark brotherhood simply because she likes murder. she truly does not give a fuck about sithis or the tenets

simultaneously a massive nerd who loves history and collecting books. yes this means i have to find every single book and yes it is a pain in the arse organising them all

helps the citizens of skyrim not because she cares but because she's bored and needs something to pass the time / make money before she can finally go home. best believe she does not remember anyone's name

^^ she ends up actually enjoying life in skyrim and never leaves

got stuck in skyrim by accident, was intending to journey to the mythic dawn headquarters in cyrodiil but got stopped at the border

ofc there is still more about her that i haven't put into words yet but maybe i will eventually add those if people actually care enough

[actuallyhermaesmora]

Fallout 4 companions and what Elder Scrolls factions (I think) they would join

I saw this sitting in my drafts, half completed from May of 2022 😦 soooo I wanted to finish it, please give me your thoughts! I'd love to see what y'all think :D

Nick Valentine- The Mages Guild, I get very much 300 year old Altmer vibes from Nick. I can see him being sent by the Mages Guild to investigate magical anomalies and inquiries all over the continent. He’s a mage, but not uppity or a recluse, he works in the public helping all the people of Tamriel.

Deacon- Just like how Deacon changes his face all the time, this guy is almost like a elder scrolls protagonist, because he's dipped his foot in everything. Thieves Guild? Yes, absolutely. A spy for a political intelligence network? Yes and in several different provinces at the same time. He's been both a random guard and a dark brotherhood assassin, a mage, and a bard at different points in life, all under different names and faces.

Piper Wright- While she wouldn’t be most equipped for combat, I can see her as a spy in an organization like the Blades or Eyes of the Queen. Still, she isn’t gonna blindly follow a political leader, so I can also see her doing some sleuthing to expose political corruption independently which has made her lots of enemies, just like in the Commonwealth.

Paladin Danse- The Companions, I can see him doing a group with a rocky past that makes initiates do questionable things. He wants to help people but he would be more of a barbarian or warrior than a guard or knight. He joined up to make a difference and prove himself as a fighter and I can see him embracing lycanthropy like Aela because he doesn't want to turn on his faction.

Codsworth- This was tough, but I can see him as a devotee to an Aedra or maybe one of the less destructive Daedra. I'm saying Priest of Arkay if I had to pick definitively. Codsworth strives to help the Sole Survivor and make sure they're comfortable. I can see him giving people comfort in their last moments or in death, honoring those who have passed and praying for them.

Preston Garvey- Preston would want to make a difference like Danse, but I think he would go the route of joining the local guard, the Legion, or even the Fighters Guild. I can see him rising through the ranks in any of these, eventually becoming a legate, guildmaster or a commander. His radiant quest giving just reminds me of a stock guard, whole lotta "Wait...I know you." and "Stop, you've violated the law!"

Macready- Maybe just a random mercenary or hired thug but also Morag Tong? Definitely an assassin type but I can’t see him being Dark Brotherhood, he's just not edgy enough. Obviously as he's a gun (or dagger) for hire he would view his kills as just part of the job, not as some bloodthirsty act of the Night Mother or whatever.

Cait- Cait on the other hand, Cait might be on the bloodthirsty side. I can see the Dark Brotherhood filling her violent tendencies but also giving her the structure and familial sense of belonging she needs. While she's not as spiritual or crazy about the Night Mother or Sithis as others, she can stick to the five tenets and get her work done.

X6-88- Now at first you might think Thalmor, and while yes, absolutely, I can see him being an uppity justiciar, I’m putting House Telvanni on the table. Either way he’s part of a supremacist group that subjugates others. This is not to say that all members of both factions are evil, just the institutions themselves are, but the track record isn't good.

Hancock- This was hard, like I deadass couldn't think of one that I thought fit him really well, and then it hit me, Thieves Guild, duh. He would have no problem infiltrating Noble houses only to jack all their valuables, or sneaking into museums or castles in the dead of night for the thrill of a heist. Even pickpocketing would excite him, nothing and no one's possessions are safe around this guy.

Curie- The Psijic Order would suit her really well. She would fit perfectly having a place to further her research that could help others. While I think the solitude on Artaeum would bother her, the order does occasionally intervene in Tamriel when they feel it’s absolutely necessary.

[ciceroandlucien]

Not gonna call this a finished work yet because each time I open it I realize I want to tweak something else, but here's the stained glass from the sanctuary. <3

[kagedbird]

Cicero Loves You, Listener! TESSDE AU - Dark Brotherhood route

~ [First] ~ [Next] ~ [Prev] ~

I peeked out of the door carefully, wincing as the bright light burned my eyes.

I’d been locked in this room for so long, I’d forgotten what anything brighter than a few candles was like. Not that my memory could remember much in the first place, but that was besides the point.

Cicero hadn’t returned as promised, and I was getting antsy. I needed answers about that voice, and… she wanted me to talk to him.

‘Darkness rises when silence dies.’ I repeated in my mind, stepping through the doorway slowly. It felt like I was breaking a rule, but I couldn’t wait any longer. I was going crazy in the emptiness. ‘Darkness rises when silence—!’

“Eep!”

I jolted, startled beyond belief as a giant fucking man stepped from around the corner in front of me. He didn’t even flinch as he stopped walking, merely looking down at me from his nose with a sneer and a glare.

“Who the hell are you, ham hock?”

“H-ham hock?” I echoed, feeling my body shaking endlessly in fright. I hadn’t heard him approaching at all! He was huge!

“Yeah. You look like a bite sized snack.” He huffed, leaning down to sniff me?!

I flinched back, stumbling backwards against the closed door behind me, and clutched the front of my shirt. “Did you just smell me?”

“Yeah.” He stood tall once more, tilting his head. “You must be the pet that jester brought in. Was wondering whose blood it was I smelled.”

“Smelled—” I shook my head, feeling incredibly confused and in slight pain as my left eye started blurring and burning like crazy. “What?”

“You must’ve hit your head hard.” He snorted. “At the very least, I know you aren’t much of a threat. Shaking worse than a leaf in a storm.”

“I’m—!”

“What’s going on here?” A beautiful woman rounded the corner, piercing blue eyes and blonde hair like my own. A large juxtaposition to the white haired, scruffy man in front of me, but no less intimidating as she fixed me with her own glare. “Who are you?”

“Allora,” I said quickly, feeling my pulse thumping aggressively in my throat. “I-I’m just… I was just looking for Cicero. Are you his family?”

A red head, a giant man, and a beautiful woman. What an interesting combination.

The woman raised an eyebrow and looked me up and down slowly. It felt like she was undressing me, but not in any sexual manner, more… assessing me.

“So you’re what he was hiding in there for so long.” She drawled, crossing her arms.  “What exactly has he told you?”

“Not much, really.” I admit, shaking my head. “That there are about nine of you, ten including someone’s pet. The religion you guys share, the tenets… that sort of thing. But not really in depth?”

There was a heavy silence that followed, and I felt myself panicking that I inadvertently got him in trouble. But at the same time, he hadn’t mentioned me at all?

That was incredibly suspicious. I needed to know what was going on.

“Cicero said he found me nearby, injured and unconscious.” I continued after neither of them said anything. “I’ve been recovering in there for about two weeks now. I think. I don’t… I don’t remember anything. I could barely remember my own name.”

“How convenient,” the man huffed. “We supposed to just believe that?”

“I-I don’t know how to prove it to you,” I said, shrugging uselessly. “Please, if I could just find Cicero—”

“And what do you need him for that you can’t talk to us about?” The woman interrupted me, making me flinch.

“I-I…”

‘They’re going to think I’m fucking crazy.’ I thought to myself, glancing to the side with a wince.

“If you so much as think of lying to me right now, you’re going to regret it.” The woman snarled, stalking forward to push me against the door.

“N-no, wait! I’m not— I wasn’t going to lie!” I squeaked out, gasping at the sight of a blade being pulled from her waist. “Pl-please—!”

“What is going on? Hm?”

I breathed a sigh of relief despite the position I was in as I looked up to see Cicero at the doorway, holding a plate of sweets. He may look incredibly angry despite his smile, but a familiar face was better than a face that was threatening me with a knife.

“Cicero!” I called out, breath hitching as the knife pressed against my throat more.

“Have you been sharing things with outsiders, Keeper?” The woman mocked, eyes never having left my face.

“Certainly not! Cicero would never betray the Night Mother so!” Cicero answered back, voice strangely tight despite his overall happy tone. “However, if you are to injure Miss Allora, you will!”

“What?” The woman asked incredulously, finally turning to the smaller man.

“Miss Allora, why are you out of bed?” Cicero asked instead, giving me a mocking pout. “Cicero knows you were eager to get up and about, but he cannot protect you if you don’t remain close!”

“Y-you were late, and I got worried, and—” I winced as the blade slipped against my neck, feeling blood trickling down. “And Mother spoke to me and told me to tell you darkness rises when silence dies!”

My heart was hammering in my chest a mile a minute as the three of them turned to me, wide eyed and slack jawed.

Cicero was the first to recover, skillfully hopping over and all but ripping the woman from me, gleefully jumping and clicking his heels. “Oh joyous day, joyous day! Cicero knew he heard you say you heard her before! Oh happy days!”

I clutched my throat to staunch the blood, unable to keep upright as I slid down the door to the floor. I was glad he believed me. This ‘Mother’ said he would, but she was also a fucking voice in my head.

So you can never really know.

“You’re the Listener?” The woman spat, glaring at me with all she was worth.

“That’s— that’s what she said,” I shrugged, letting Cicero help me to my feet when I had feeling in them again. “I-I don’t really know what it means…”

“Dutiful Cicero will explain everything!” Cicero crowed, gently guiding me to a bench nearby. I hadn’t even really noticed the rest of this secluded chamber, and only just noticed an intricately styled coffin and mural behind it.

I was sat down, and Cicero placed the plate of food next to me before gathering some salvant from his pocket. He moved my hand from my throat, tsking all the while under his breath about ‘harlots not knowing their place’, spreading the cold salve over my wound.

It tingled, but did feel better afterwards.

“Thank you,” I murmured softly.

“Dutiful Cicero is always here to help his Listener!” Cicero chirped as he pulled away. “He is so very sorry for being pulled away for so long, but he needed to find proper sustenance for himself and you! That, and he was hoping Mother would talk to you if he was not around!”

“Can you not hear her?” I asked, frowning.

He laughed. It wasn’t like his usual ones, though it was a very well practiced one. It felt slightly strained.

“Oho, Listener is very funny! But no! Cicero is the Keeper! He… keeps!” He claps his hands before motioning to the plate. “But Cicero can explain that another time, please, eat! You need to regain your strength!”

“By Sithis, you will explain what is going on, fool,” the woman spat out, snarling at Cicero with clenched hands. “How in Oblivion is she the Listener? And you just happened to find her?”

As angry as I felt on his behalf for the attitude, Cicero seemed nonplussed.

“Oh Cicero had a feeling Miss Allora was our beloved Listener for some time!” Cicero explained, grinning wide. “She was so kind, so kind! Helped poor Cicero along the roadside when that awful Loreius family refused to help!”

Loreius?

“She had mentioned hearing something from the box that contained Mother’s coffin before she left! Cicero was certain of it!” He clapped and jangled as he danced around.

A flicker of a memory came to mind. The blue sky, covered with clouds. A nearby farm. A giant wagon, a wheel broken.

A familiar jester…

I flinched as a hand came to my face, watching in a daze as Cicero pulled back his glove from my upper lip to show blood.

I gasped, covering my nose and pinching it, leaning forward to stop the blood flow from getting too bad.

“Are you all right Listener? Tell Cicero what is wrong so he can help!”

I shook my head lightly, feeling incredibly dizzy and light headed all at once. Was it because of the memories? Or stress? I couldn’t tell anymore.

I just felt myself slip forward into that listless void that knew me very well by now…

[wintercearig12]

Honestly, I find the surviving members of Skyrim’s Dark Brotherhood questline to be strange choices (except for Cicero). Don’t get me wrong, I love Nazir and Babette, but Festus and Gabriella (and to an extent Veezara) would have made for better, and more committed, members. My rationale for this lies in their views of the Night Mother and the old ways, which of course are resumed at the end of this questline. 

When meeting Cicero, Festus plainly states: “Mister Cicero, I for one am delighted you and the Night Mother have arrived. Your presence here signals a welcome return to tradition." Afterwards, he will expand upon this point, further highlighting the importance of the Night Mother and the traditions that previously governed the Dark Brotherhood: "Their arrival is the best thing that's happened to this Sanctuary in years. Astrid is an effective leader, but we've been rudderless for too long. Scrounging for contracts, abandoning the Tenets. The Dark Brotherhood has been reduced to a group of common cutthroats. Frankly, it's embarrassing." Moreover, although he does display some displeasure at the Night Mother’s choice of the Dragonborn as her Listener, he nonetheless accepts the decision: "So you're the Listener, hmm? Well that hardly seems fair. You just got here. The Night Mother should have spoken to me. Any idiot could see that. But, I will serve gladly, as that's my lot in life.”

Gabriella is particularly courteous towards the Night Mother: "Without the Night Mother, there is no Dark Brotherhood. The Matron deserves our unwavering support and respect.” Although she is understandably cautious of the news that you have been chosen as Listener, she still acknowledges the significance of what this means for the Family: "If the Night Mother truly spoke to you, if you really are the Listener... your destiny was written in the Void. Astrid is right to fear your power." In this way, she is recognising the dominance of the Night Mother over Astrid. Similarly to Festus, she is jealous of the new Listener, but does not belittle the Dragonborn: "What an honor, the assassination of an Emperor. And all because you are the Listener, favored by the Night Mother, anointed by Sithis. I am so very happy for you. If not a bit... envious."

Veezara is harder to pinpoint. Although his commitment to Astrid could be seen as disrespectful towards the Night Mother, I do not think it is as clear cut as this. When asking his opinion of the Unholy Matron, he will state: "Truthfully? I'm not entirely sure. It's not that I don't have the utmost respect for Sithis, and the Night Mother, and the ancient ways. I do. But I've never been much for religion. I kill because it's what I've been trained to do. It's all I know. So long as Astrid is happy, I'm happy." In essence, he recognises and accepts the importance of the Night Mother, but, due to the circumstances of his life, he simply takes things at face value: Astrid gives him both purpose and family, and so he commits himself to her above all. This is understandable when considering the near extinction of his order, the Shadowscales, and the lack of direction from the Night Mother in previous years. As he says, his role in life is to kill, and Astrid provides the means for him to do so, all else has been lost, and is therefore negligible to him. He follows what he knows.

Nazir and Babette are comparatively disrespectful towards the Night Mother. After you are revealed as the Listener, Nazir will say: "You may be the Listener, or you may just be a lunatic who's started hearing voices. Either way, Astrid is still your mistress. Not the Night Mother.” When speaking to Babette after the arrival of Cicero, she will equally display a dismissive attitude: "Two hundred years ago, I would have lain down my life for the Unholy Matron. But that is an age long since passed. Astrid is my matron now."

Having said all this, it wouldn't surprise me if this was done on purpose. After all, this situation does remind me of Oblivion, and the fact that the Night Mother knew the traitor was not at the Cheydinhal Sanctuary, and that Lucien was innocent too. The Dark Brotherhood seems to have a running theme of losing its most devoted members.

[aquicat]

How Astrid Breaks all five Tenets:

1, never disrespect the Night Mother: ...she had about as much restect for you unholy matron as I have for Donald Trump.

2. never betray the Dark Brotherhood: Selling. Out. One. Of. Your. Members. To. The. Pigs. Is. Betrayal.

3, never disobey the orders of a superior: The Listener is Astrid's superior, and I don't see much 'obeying' going on there...

4, never steal the possetions of another Brother or Sister: she comands you to steal Cicero's journal.

5, never kill a Brother or Sister: Four words, 'a cure for madness'.

[unironicallytes]

i know i keep threatening vaguely with the fact that im doing some weirdly intense shit to the Dark Brotherhood faith in this story, so here's proof in the form of a WIP

"hey who's that on the right--" I'M MAKING HER KIDS SAINTS! WE'RE EXPANDING THE LORE BABEY! FIVE KIDS FIVE SAINTS FIVE TENETS LET'S GOOOOOO GAMERS

ignore the placeholder skulls theyre placeholders lmao

[dazzlerazz]

HI i just started my 72303094023234823058th skyrim playthrough and i absolutely need to talk about cicero bc all the hate from normie fans is so unwarranted imo? ok he's weird, so what. they're all literally assassins. killers. murderers. people die when they're killed by the dark brotherhood. how and why do you draw the line at a dancing clown?? besides, he was genuinely happy to be there. GENUINELY. imagine giving your life to the night mother and sithis only to go to the last remaining sanctuary in skyrim and find nothing more than a bunch of arrogant mercenaries who get their contracts by listening to gossip, basically. not only that, but they mock him, the actual keeper, capital K, and the night mother once they arrive. i ain't saying they deserve what they got, but also. what outcome were they expecting? they're lucky they lasted that long.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!!!!! THAANK YOU!!!!!!!

Also starting my quadrillionth skyrim playthrough lmao

People don't want to listen to Cicero and hear his story because they think he's a deranged murderer who needs to be put down. Look at yourself hon, you also joined the dark brotherhood, you're no different <3

He can be annoying at times, yes, but I don't think he needs to die for it. When I was a kid I thought he was annoying before I could really understand what was going on on a deeper level, I mean come on I was like 10! As I've grown up with the game I've seen that there's so much more to Cicero than haha goofy jester. I was too much of a wimp to get that far in the story line, but even if I did, I wouldn't have killed him

I could technically say Cicero did absolutely nothing wrong, since none of this would have happened if the PLAYER CHARACTER HADN'T JOINED IN THE FIRST PLACE, meaning they condone murder for money. But also there is that part where he kinda attacked Astrid and Veeja (I think that's his name, it's the middle of the night rn and I'm tired)

People who look at Cicero and just see an annoying jester are willfully ignoring his journals, the progression of the story, the tenets, and even Astrid herself when she lays there dying, saying Cicero was right. Willfully ignoring it

Killing Cicero even makes Sithis upset. If you summoned Lucien earlier and he's with you when you crawl through the Dawnstar sanctuary, he'll tell you that Sithis doesn't want Cicero to die, he wants him to live

EVERYTHING IN THE GAME is telling you to let Cicero live. Everything.

People just don't want to see it

On another note, as unique as each assassin is, I think Cicero adds that unique flavor that brings the whole family together. In a perfect world, Astrid would have seen the error of her ways and accepted Cicero, not betrayed the brotherhood, and the family would stay strong. But Astrid was too worried about everything she built. I don't like Astrid at all, most likely because she's the villain when I think about Cicero, but I do understand her point if view. Change is scary, two people came in and threw everything up in the sky. I get it, doesn't make it right

But even then, there's no Morally Right in the brotherhood. We're assassins, through and through, it's hypocritical to talk about morals