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horizon-verizon · 2 years ago

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I agree.

I think that the writers and show runners of the show are looking at the medieval world and saying to us and themselves that, yes, everyone in this story, esp the men, are all pedophiles and/or problematic and all were unwillingly so. They are both uwu victims of their own political system but also the evil that we, the people of the 21st century, managed to "fix" and move away from.

You see, it's not their fault. It's the fact the they don't know what we know but you know it still makes them evil to do what they did.

As though them being of a different era (medieval) as opposed to being in ours makes them automatically evil people. As if everyone who was born before the 1900s are/were automatically, and inescapably, evil pedophiles and cancellable.

And it's not totally about different mores. It's often about the luxuries the available technologies give and the available resources, the way those were distributed and deserved"--the practical need.

People in any ancient/medieval point in human history generally died earlier than they do now from all sorts of illnesses or accidents and in wars. Women could die of childbirth a lot easier than they do now. So people married earlier and women and girls can and did marry earlier than others.

Why is this? One primary reason is the lack of technology and medicinal knowledge that would allow people to live longer.

To imply that the entire past generations (and some current societies today) of humans were evil or pedophilic is then to put one's own society on a pedestal from which to make themselves the "right" authority, or the prime, default moral authority.

It disallows us to actually be willing to study infrastructures and dynamics of any ancient society without a pair of colored lenses, or to do so with as little bias as possible. Without being able to pick up on nuances without it meaning they these people are "less than" us. IT locks us in our own modern world and diminishes the ability to imagine or theorize why ancient peoples would do or say things without putting a modern impetus and motivation to them.

Also, the concept of a child's complete ignorant "bliss" and inherent "innocence" really came into being when the Romantics of the 18 and 19th centuries waxed literal poetic about how they wished to go back to a place of "carefree innocence". To remove sexuality from children and "teenagers" was to recontextualize the adults' own sexuality and wish to nonconform.

And in America, 18 is the legal age of majority because when the government wanted to enlist 18 year-olds for the Vietnam war while not allowing them to vote, there were protests on top of those already against the war itself.

It doesn't mean that there is no factual, unchanging state of childhood or mental place of immaturity. What it does mean is that there is no perfect period of human history for people to say something as extreme as every person born before me were "evil and pedophilic".

We are still a society with horrible injustices, some that whole slews of people and groups deny even are unjust: how disabled people are regarded as "damaged goods" or more expendable than those who are abled and can participate in the workforce in a way that capitalist companies like.

Emma D'Arcy's words about Daemyra and Daemon :

"Daemon is a deeply problematic character. Seeing Rhaenyra being seduced and manipulated as a child by her uncle confirms this, and prevents the public from blinding the public to the problematic nature of their relationship." - Emma D'arcy .

So Emma… I love you as an actress but a few things to point out.

Daemon is a gray character. People need to stop trying to turn him into a villain, or at least amplify his dark side. I'm not saying Daemon isn't a problematic character. There are aspects of it, yes. Obviously, since he's a gray character. But generally the members of the series tend to associate these problematic aspects with things that don't have to be. As does (as Emma D'arcy said so well) that apparently Daemon seduced a child Rhaenyra.

So, you should know that large age differences are common in feudal times and in the world of ASOIAF. Literally, Daemyra is no exception in this. In fact, it even seems to me that they are among the couples with the least age difference in Martin's universe. In the book, when Rhaenyra is a child, Daemon seems to love her in a classic family mode. Nothing indicates anything to move in their relationship. When she is 7 / 8 years old Daemon is exiled by Viserys and he does not return to Kings Landing until Rhaenyra is 14 years old, without having had any contact with her before or in recent years. Here, by Westeros standards, Rhaenyra is actually a marriage-ready adult, likely already being courted by men far older than Daemon. So there's literally nothing shocking about Daemyra having an affair in the 6 months since Daemon's return. The age difference in this universe inspired by feudal times, not to mention the fact of getting married young, is literally the norm. If you accuse Daemon of being problematic for that, or even worse, a pedophile (what is particularly ridiculous), well know that you are accusing almost all the men and women of this universe and time of being, when in the end it's just about different mores. In this scenario, Daemon is not an attacker. He is simply one of the men trying to woo Rhaenyra. Not to mention the fact that he didn't see her grow up at all due to her exile, which makes the whole thing even less problematic than it might seem to a modern audience. Yes, Daemon knew Rhaenyra as a child, but he didn't see her grow up, that's the nuance. George made sure this didn't happen. He did not see her go from a child to a young woman, because yes, I remind you, adolescence in this context does not exist, there is only childhood and adulthood.

On the other hand, if you're looking for a man who actually saw Rhaenyra grow up in the book, who was extremely and actively close to her throughout this evolution, and finally tried his luck with her once she was older, like 16 years old, and who is suspected (as Alicent did for example, when she hated Rhaenyra) of having had harmful intentions towards her, especially from the age of 13… Which obviously sounds like something particularly creepy… Well you have Ser Criston Cole, knight and protector of Rhaenyra ! So placed in a position of trust in relation to her when she was 7/8 years old. Not to mention that Rhaenyra was apparently under the spell of Criston Cole from that age and that's why she wanted him as her personal knight. Obviously, this aspect of the character of Criston Cole has been completely evacuated in the series with the changes of age. But if you're looking for a man in the book who might fit into the “grooming” category or at least come close to it in his relationship with Rhaenyra, well it's actually Criston Cole. Not Daemon.

And even if Daemon would have seen Rhaenyra grow up, as is ultimately the case in the series, remember that the two are part of an incestuous family. Thus, that they end up getting married does not necessarily mean that Daemon would have tried to seduce Rhaenyra as a child. This idea is based on literally nothing. Moreover, absolutely nothing indicates in the series, contrary to what Emma D'arcy says, that Daemon tried to seduce and manipulate Rhaenyra when she was a child / that he had harmful intentions towards her in this time there. At most, he just seems to have unconscious feelings for her in the first episode when she is apparently 14 years old according to Rhaenyra's words in episode 10… Except that in episode 2, 6 months older late after episode 1, Viserys says that Rhaenyra is 16 years old… Yeah the directors and writers weren't very well done chronologically I think. Anyway, officially Rhaenyra is 19 years old in episode 4 ! You know, the age at which Daemon tries to seduce her in the series…

Tell me Emma, I didn't know that 19 was still being a child, you're teaching me a great thing there ! You too have messed up on the level of the sea chronology…

Rhaenyra was an adult at the time, whether by the laws of Westeros, or ours. She also consciously wanted to fuck with her uncle in this episode, no doubt, and has done so probably even since episode 1. However, Daemon didn't do anything in particular to seduce her until this episode 4. Mysaria was literally his mistress in the first 2 episodes. And no, Daemon offering Rhaenyra a necklace is not evidence of grooming. According to the book, Daemon has been showering Rhaenyra with gifts since she was little, it's just a habit he's picked up with her. And no, it wasn't creepy or sexual ! In the first episode, as I said, Daemon seemed to harbor unconscious or repressed feelings towards Rhaenyra without actually engaging in any type of seduction with her. Then he seems to realize his interest in her in episode 2 when she challenges him, and he has feelings for her in Episode 4. It's as simple as that.

Also, we can't be certain that Daemon was actively shoved into Rhaenyra's paws during her youth/childhood either in the series. At the start of episode 1, Rhaenyra tells Daemon that it's literally been an eternity since he's been seen in court, and from what has been shown of Daemon's character, that he doesn't really seem to fit in with the nobles and his opinion that the court just happens to be deadly boring, well that would ultimately indicate that he spends very little time there, and therefore Rhaenyra wouldn't have not the pleasure of his company that often. A little crappy for someone trying to groom Rhaenyra…

You really need to stop with all that Daemon bullshit trying to seduce/groom a child Rhaenyra, because it's literally based on nothing. Actors and directors should really shut up when they talk about the show. Especially since once again, they seem to forget that the age difference is a common thing in this universe. For exemple, Rhaenys and Corlys in the show are promoted as a good couple as Rhaenys was 16 and Corlys 37 when they got married according to the book. Strangely, here the age difference has never challenged or disturbed anyone. It's hypocrisy to point out the age difference specifically between Daemyra as problematic when in the book and Martin's universe in general, well, they don't particularly stand out for that, and that there are even worse than them. And no one seems to see these relationships as problematic because of these age differences, which shows the obvious bias of some against Daemyra… Not to mention that I love how much the directors and actors (except Matt Smith , because he has a working brain) love to recall the problematic aspects around Daemyra, to the point of forgetting that they are telling a story in a feudal fantasy universe, but besides never touching on Alicent's deeply toxic relationship and Rhaenyra, talking only about the tragedy that separates them and the love they still seem to have despite all the crap (which I won't name, because others have done it much better than I can't do it, and I'm too lazy) that Alicent put Rhaenyra through. But I guess that's it when the show is partly written by idiots…?

That's all I had to say on the subject. Please feel free to share your opinion respectfully. Cheers !

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