#tcoaar

[coffin-ramblings]

The Coffin of Andrew and Renee Review Part 1: A Reused Resplendent Shroud Covering a Splintered Box

I played the Coffin of Andrew and Renee mod, and I have a lot of thoughts about it. It will be more critical than what you see so far and its breadth got so big, I have to make it into two posts. The first one will be focused on the plot beats, Andrew's and Renee’s relationship and characterization, and how the mod compares to canon. The second post will focus on my prediction for the identity of the “Homewrecker”, and how Andrew’s and Renee’s relationship here is (most likely unintentionally) written as non-physical sexual abuse.

Here is the link to part 2.

The game starts off with a hint to a flashback about Nina and Renee apparently caring about being a proper role model. Even though she casually cusses in front of her kids in canon and tells Ashley to “Cry about it” after being confronted for not helping them when she and her brother were starving for three months. Which was very jarring, but I went along anyway. It had some very funny moments, ones that have been posted all over so I won’t repeat them. Then Renee finds the can of tomatoes where she shows it to Andrew. I expected a more intense fight, but instead, Andrew just blatantly lies about why it’s in the trash, tries to gaslight his way out of it, and…compromises with her? I would’ve thought Renee would start lecturing him about lying to her, especially since it’s against their best interests and it’d be easy to portray her as being so domineering, she can make Andrew the “doormat” listen to her whenever she wants. But instead, it just shows that Andrew really isn’t that much of a doormat, even though that is his consistent personality trait in canon.

The hiding the can of tomatoes in general also makes no sense here because Ashley is impulsive enough to make it a meal quickly, while both Andrew and Renee here are strategic enough to ration it out. It feels like a copy and paste of the game that was executed with not much thought. In the original game, it immediately establishes the first impression that Ashley will ask Andrew for permission for things, Andrew will use trickery to try to keep her from getting what she wants, and while they’d fight over that, ultimately he will give in to her, seemingly because he’s a doormat. Here it gives the impression that Andrew is a liar just because and can be proactive, and Renee will not press him about any problems she sees unlike Ashley. This would have worked much better if Renee is depicted as someone who wants to do whatever she wants without a care for anything, which is somewhat her vibe in canon. However unlike Ashley, she can be persuaded to have self-restraint. 

Andrew is also weirdly way more rude and unappreciative about the meal than he was in the original game. He doesn’t act this rude in other low stress situations, and he’s not a picky eater either. He grew up poor and malnourished, he can’t be picky. He’s also way nicer to Ashley about the meal, and it serves as one of the hints that he is truly fond of her. I also expected Renee to start guilt-tripping by going “Oh it was so hard to cook this meal when I’m literally a walking skeleton!”, but she just tells him to stop playing with his food and eat it. There is no purpose to making him this rude as a first impression if he doesn’t act like this again. There’s no explanation to why he’s rude or even him apologizing for being rude to highlight how the quarantine is making the usually calm Andrew be more irritable. Ideally every character interaction should have some kind of purpose, but this doesn’t. 

It was also strange that right after, it’s revealed Renee has the balcony key, because when I inspected the balcony door before talking with Andrew, it just said that it was locked. It doesn’t give any justification for why Renee locked it or why she doesn’t want to go out right now. Sure it’s a minor detail, but it would add more reasoning or characterization to why it’s locked. The balcony key in canon is a hint of how Andrew actually has the final say on things Ashley wants to do with him, and he usually goes along because it’s what he wants, he just doesn’t want to admit it. Here, Renee with the balcony key shows she’s the one in charge at all times, which is expected, she’s the mother, but that makes her relationship with Andrew more unequal than what is intended. Maybe there’s more to it later that I haven’t thought of or haven’t seen, but who knows.

When the two want to cross to the other balcony by getting the broken shelf, Renee calls her husband “useless”, and before that, she calls him “good-for-nothing” when looking at the phone. These are all very OOC when she loves him very much and tries to assure him when he loses his job by saying “You’re too good for it anyway!”. I’d expect that even if they have some major falling out, Renee would be more bittersweet about it, like ��My husband/your father is too scatterbrained. A shame since DIY building was his passion then”.

Though that scene is a relatively smaller issue than how she deals with the neighbor. She immediately starts threatening to kill him, which is very much the opposite of her trying to be normal in canon.

Why can’t she just knock on the door, yell at him to keep the music down, then threaten to call the wardens if he starts threatening her? She is not canonically that hot-headed. It feels like they made her more similar to Ashley just to balance out Andrew’s calmness, which makes no sense when Andrew takes a lot from her in personality in canon. 

We then had them watch TV. I decided to get the batteries and then turn on the TV manually, which was very funny. They hear the shitty news, and then they go to sleep. The flashback with the phone call with Julia shows Andrew seems to be actually happy with Julia, which has some possibly unintentional but still unfortunate implications on Andrew’s and Renee’s relationship. 

Or it could be Renee imagining it from her POV, which is what Andrew not saying “I love you” back to Julia suggests. But he also seems to slightly care about her more than in canon here, which also has unfortunate implications on his relationship with Renee, which will be discussed in the other post

This flashback also has a great set-up to her breaking up with Andrew because neglectful boyfriends are bad and potential shitty mother in laws are the worst, but then later…

No break-up happens. This is very unfortunate, especially with the common mindset that women have to tolerate their male partners’ mothers’ shitty behavior. The breakup also could highlight the toxicity of Andrew’s and Renee’s relationship, just like it did for Ashley and Andrew in canon. But apparently, Andrew is still with Julia, who is okay with him being apparently too busy for her and willing to commit to the long-term of dealing with his awful mother. This makes Andrew and Renee feel much softer in destructiveness than canon Andrew and Ashley, which is a compelling point of their relationship. This not happening makes Andrew and Renee less unique in comparison. 

Then the flashbacks show Renee talking with the ‘Homewrecker”. I will not talk about her here. She’s her own airtight can of suffocating worms.  

Anyway, the next day, Renee cleans up the house and passes out. I do appreciate the detail that there’s no dirt stains on the floor because she's cleaner than her kids, but what’s the point of being able to pick up the mop despite not needing it? And right after she cleans up, she passes out, but then the CG where she wakes up has her…sitting next to Andrew?

She was unconscious, why was she not lying down on his lap or the couch? Their eyes look off, Andrew looks way thinner than in other CGS, and the varying art styles of the CGs throughout the game is rather distracting, which makes me wonder how they coordinated all of the art.

And then, we get the call with Mr. Graves. He is barely even a character in canon, so it’s quite impressive how his few traits present were completely thrown out of the window here. He is very devoted and loving to Renee and he tries hard to hold down a job to support her and their children despite his own personal issues. Yet here he runs away from her, either complicit to or actively sold out her and Andrew, and apparently started a new relationship with another woman. He’s not even himself at this point, he’s just the mod’s OC wearing his skin. I’d say that is the writers’ most impressive achievement of this mod were it not easy to do. Sure it’s nice to see Renee’s insecurities out but it’s so forced by Mr. Graves being so out of character, and we could have gotten Julia breaking up with Andrew. 

Anyway we have the balcony scene, the first of several uncomfortable sexual moments throughout this mod, but much less titillating than the original because Andrew very much does not like hearing Renee talk about her sexuality and he is still grieving for Ashley. Renee thinking “Why is he still hung up over that?” is such a great moment though, props to that. 

I really have nothing much to say about lying on the floor scene in this post, so I’ll just focus on the successful demon summoning. That one was very weird for me, as Renee somehow decides that “Fuck it, time to unnecessarily commit a crime” and breaks into the apartment before the cultist dies. The demon sees her and asks who she offers, to which she offers up the cultist and after that…nothing happens. No trinket, no other reward, no Renee angsting over knowing she has a tar soul despite wanting to appear normal, no Andrew or Renee ever mentioning that she directly caused his demise. This feels like a moment to make it distinct from canon, but it falls very flat when it gets unaddressed and makes the warden sacrifice lose its impact compared to canon where he is the very first sacrifice by Ashley. 

The actions of Renee to their neighbor makes her have no care for appearing normal here, even though that is a core part of her character in Coffin and where Andrew gets his obsession to be so normal from. Her interactions with the neighbor create a huge plot hole of: if Renee is not the one insisting to appear normal, who does Andrew get his obsession from? 

But after that very weird scene, we see them chop up the cultist to eat, where the dinner was also…not very tense? Even if Renee is a better chef than Ashley, Andrew was still very nauseous at eating his body. It’d be more impactful if Renee physically forces Andrew to swallow it down like Ashley did, to show how at odds they are with each other about this. 

Versus

Horror is best emphasized when in contrast to the “normal”, which makes this scene in canon much more engaging. Ashley is very nonchalant about the cannibalism and forcefully insistent that Andrew must partake in it, even though he's reluctant about this despite it being for survival. This makes her more, well, horrifying to us and Andrew. It also is a building block to the eventual explosion of their simmering tensions, one we want to see. For Andrew and Renee, it feels more boring and not horrifying at all. In fact, it was very weird that Andrew is way nicer here than with the tomato sauce meal. That was kinda the opposite in canon. 

Versus

Why is Andrew suddenly all accepting and happy about this in the mod? Not even in Chapter 2 Burial, where he has fully decided to not give a shit about normalcy, was he happy with eating his parents. He was just being nice to humor Ashley. Now I was pretty disappointed about this, but when I decided to talk with Andrew after dinner…

My suspension of disbelief was surprisingly enduring for the past hour and fifteen minutes despite all the constant OOC-ness that drives this plot, but somehow, Andrew saying that broke it for me. At that moment, it was obvious that character consistency was not a goal for the mod. They do whatever the writers fit their fancies at the moment. Even though later Renee insists Andrew is “normal” because she’s “normal” was a nice in character moment for her and so was the Harekin story, it was too late. I just could not be that engaged with the mod anymore, knowing that what made them appealing to me can be thrown out at any moment.

I powered through the rest of the game, desperate to finish it. I was very annoyed at the major oversight of Renee waking up in Andrew’s room (despite sleeping in her own room in the scene before) and going down to the balcony to have Renee somehow know Andrew was next door cleaning up. And apparently, she knows this because he left a note on her bed saying that’s where he was, which I did not read at all, so I had to reload and find out what was happening. While I liked and was depressed at Renee seducing the warden to distract him in her home, it was annoying to go back and forth between the apartments to get blood from the warden to do the ritual. 

i also didn't like how Renee's immediate thought getting the gun was to smile and think about threatening Andrew with chores. The closest thing to Ashley doing that is yelling “YOU’RE LUCKY I LOVE YOU TOO MUCH TO NOT SHOOT!”, which was more funny because it’s in a stupid argument, siblings threaten each other without following through a lot of the time, and she actually didn’t try to get out of being choked by Andrew with the gun, so we know that she is truthful about that. I’m not sure if that was meant to be a joke or not, but it’s very much not funny. 

But the argument at the end definitely was a bad end to a pretty okay start to the mod. I have more problems with it that I’ll discuss in the next post, but for now, I’ll just do a comparison between canon. When I saw this Renee say “You let your sister take the fall of [Nina’s] death”, I expected that he’s going to start choking her immediately, and if not, soon. Soon after, Renee slaps Andrew, and I expected it to escalate to that…

…but it didn’t. It felt very anticlimactic with the lack of dynamism, thus, an explosion of the tension in the art. Compare with canon:

Andrew choking Ashley is horrifying because we realize that he can snap. That this seemingly normal and apathetic guy has his limits, and those limits can mean murdering his own sister. There is no horror to Andrew verbally threatening Renee and backing her into the corner, it feels more like he’s bluffing than actually willing to commit to matricide to evade the consequences of his crimes. It is a lot more boring and makes Renee appear more abusive to him as a result as she cowed him enough to not dare to use that against her. Andrew choking Ashley actually is a big tell that he also has power in the relationship, but he doesn’t want to show it often.

Also, him mentioning bitterly that Ashley is gone doesn’t get any major follow-up here other than Andrew going ‘You finally got rid of your daughter you always hated” and “Here lies Renee Graves, she should have had two abortions”. I would have expected him to choke her after she yells that she could have let him get sent away and tells her, “I raised Ashley because you made me. She was like a child of mine, and you let them take her away from me. I suppose it’s right for parents to avenge their kids, right?”. This would have fully established the tension between the two that it’s not Nina that made Andrew resent Renee, but Ashley. 

And what resolved the situation was...Renee saying she loved Andrew too much? Anyone who has been in a regular tense argument with a parent can tell you, saying “I love you too much” does not solve anything. It’s just overbearing and guilt-trippy and makes you even more mad. It especially is more useless to say here, because Renee here is being possessive of Andrew and he hates that. But the writers have to stick with Renee being an incredibly devoted mom even if it would not work in that situation. In fact, saying she loves him too much does not work at all when Andrew isn’t physically threatening her to gauge her desires.

It works better in canon because Andrew was choking Ashley as a calculated threat to both control her and gauge her desires. Her telling him that she doesn’t care if she dies if he wants to leave without her would have more of an impact on Andrew because he also can’t live without her and killing her will mean that is another crime he has to avoid the consequences of. Even outside of the siblings’ particular context, it would be very shocking for anyone to have their victim go “Well I don’t care about dying. If I don’t get to live with you, life is not worth living”. This makes both of them so much more fascinating. Ashley literally stakes her entire life on one person and we then don’t fully  understand why, but we want to know more. Andrew, despite his violent resentment of Ashley, seems to appreciate that, and we also want to know his perspective on it. They are very good hooks, both to learn more about their characters and see how much things can get worse. How the mod handles it does not give us hooks of its own. We just wonder what happens when they’re on the run and have Andrew’s word that he doesn’t trust Renee but he doesn’t show it, so it’s not as engaging.

After that, they go ride off with a cute bunny CG. Which was nice I guess. 

So do I like anything about the mod? Well some. I like Andrew’s literature major nerd moments. The jokes in the beginning were funny. Renee has her own distinct voice, her insecurities, and cynicism of being a woman in a very patriarchal society. However, I wished it was shown more outside of a few moments, that it is such a constant part of her that you can’t avoid. 

Despite the flashback with burying Nina happening after I started getting disengaged with the mod, it was well-done with its horror and Renee's manipulation that it kept my engagement for a while. I wished I can post the art here but I'm at the image max for this post.

However, it is soured that it feels so disjointed from the present, of how much better the mod can be. Apparently this is the moment where Renee resolves to be a better mother for Andrew, but she canonically did not give a shit about the murder, even though she knew that they were responsible for it. It’d make more sense if she’s like “Finally, I can finally get rid of that nasty girl and have Andrew, my reliable son who has so much potential to raise our socioeconomic status up, be all alone without her influence. I’m going to pay extra attention to him now.” This would make her constantly more manipulative, controlling, and guilt-tripping him, which with her high expectations, quarantine, and their crimes makes him eventually turn against her. 

So I guess I can say without any caveats and ignoring the small details, I really don’t like this mod. It had so much potential, and I played it to see how it’ll unfold with the characters I know. Instead, I got what feels like a beginner writer who just got into a new thing they like so much that they wrote a fanfic about it. The characters feel so disjointed, a critical character is written out due to the author’s preference or plot convenience, there’s meaningless changes, the conflicts are minimal between the MCs, and we have a contrived cheating cliche that serves to make at least one character look worse and another look much better. 

I see a lot of justification that it’s OOC because it’s an AU, but as this review showed, this is not a “oh the situation changed so they acted differently”. There is absolutely no rhyme or reason behind many of their actions other than it drives the plot. In fact, the mod is maddeningly boring for me because no real risks were taken to make its own identity while still being a The Coffin of Andy and Leyley game. 

The first sign of that is its title. What is the “coffin” in this game? The apartment is only relevant in the first episode, and it certainly doesn’t feel like Nina’s with how nice Renee is to Andrew (even if it should be). The major known meaning of the original game’s title is Andrew’s desire for him and Ashley to grow up from “Andy” and “Leyley” and become full-fledged adults. Why is it called “The Coffin of Andrew and Renee” here? Does that mean they’re going to die? If not physically, what is their goal that requires a part of themselves to die?

Furthermore, TCOAAL is at its core a horror game. The mod does not do anything to build upon that or make its own horror outside of the flashback, which was heavily based on what happened in canon. While this can be attributed to a majority of the fan content being smutty or shippy, if you want to make an adaptation of the game’s plot, you still need to have horror in it. It’s unavoidable as a social commentary and examination of what creates “bad” people. But Renee and Andrew are barely horrible to each other, which is a major part of the horror in the original game between the two siblings. This is a genre that ideally demands the creators be bold and daring in its entry to the world of fears and taboos, which the writers are clearly not outside of one scene.

And the final core issue of its lack of identity is that Renee is an Ashley with a different voice, one that creates more problems for Andrew’s characterization and makes her more abusive than Ashley ever was. Renee is Andrew’s mother, how she is has more of an effect on how he is and the mod forgets that. This is best seen with Renee readily charging into crimes without any good reason like Ashley did in Episode 1, Andrew somehow willing enough to admit he’s not normal, and him not really standing up to her when she slaps him at the end of the episode. This particular interaction and Renee’s role in Andrew’s life overall means she has more authority than him, which makes their relationship much more unequal than what Andrew and Ashley are in canon. Furthermore, Andrew can’t easily leave her as he can with Ashley, because she can stalk him and no one will really take it seriously because they would have more sympathy for her. If Ashley were to do that, most people would be more sympathetic to Andrew, especially since no one really likes Ashley, while Renee apparently can be popular. These problems are a reflection of the popular fanon misconceptions of Ashley as the sole abuser of Andrew in their relationship, and Andrew purely being her victim. This will be discussed in the next post.

[coff-in]

question...

i wanna hear your opinions since the mod is a hot topic (reasonably so, i think)... if you don't mind

[mortemlifeness]

Jokes about Sigmund Freud under the video with "the coffin of Andrew and Renee" mod made me explode. In a positive way.

People, you are such comedians. Continue, please.

[sophiedollxoxo]

As someone who never hated the Andrew x Renee ship since Chapter 2 and who had witnessed the process of the mod being created in discord, I disliked the mod for what it could have been. Not once have I expected it to be on the same level as the original since it's a volunteer project, but I still had expectations that it'll be fun somehow.

But it wasn't.

Yes I am salty, because they could've utilized the many other cool plots that they have brainstormed in their thread, like Renee secretly being part of the cult, instead of re-using the quarantine plot from the original game. They could've also used the "differing artsyles" as part of the character's differing POVs.

For a ship to work, even if you don't ship it, it had to make sense.

Yet what they showed in the mod doesn't make sense, because the tension is lost when they replaced Ashley with Renee while re-using the original plot. They could've just made new OCs that feature a mom x son ship and I won't even mind, yet they have to break the original characters into not even a shadow of themselves, but complete strangers wearing the skin of the originals. I missed Andrew's sudden and surprising aggression whenever he gets provoked, I missed Renee's great manipulation skills that actually would've led to Decay Route from the original, but most of all I missed Ashley.

And it breaks my heart for what it could've been.

I’m not even gonna lie, I get the feeling a lot of the hate towards the Renee and Andrew mod is coming from salty gravecest shippers. That or people are just taking it way too seriously. We get it, the mod is not nearly as good as the original, but it was never trying to be. It’s supposed to be a fun time where you can see Andrew and his mom have tension and fuck. What’s the problem here?

[coffin-ramblings]

The mod is built on misconception of the characters and a lack of understanding what makes the actual game great. Not only does the story contradict basic things about the canon like character relationships, but the whole reason the siblings were in that situation in the original is because of Renee. It’s just a cheap imitation of the game but with the mother slightly turned into an Ashley clone just because. If they’re gonna completely disregard canon they might as well just straight up make actual OCs, but obviously they want the recognition that comes with the actual characters while butchering them. Some people might like it or whatever because simple reskins give them the brain stimulation they require but quality is important especially since they’re taking somebody else’s work and making a bootleg out of it.

My thoughts exactly. Coffin is so appealing because it's a story of two beautiful but lonely and damaged outcasts against the entire world. They could have given their utmost devotion to each other were it not for their distrust and the pressures of said world. Now with nothing left to lose, they either break from their burdens and have it decay into something more poisonous, or defy "common sense" and bury all those burdens away. While the romanticism and tragedy of their relationship are important, the story's psychological horror is equally so. It shows how that the ones we trust the most are the ones who'll hurt the most, while challenging the ideas that morals are fixed and absolute and our perceptions of ourselves and others are infallible.

Though I'd say mod is appealing because this is the first released mod involving a canon character, nice promotional art, consistent advertising in a content-starved fandom, the official-ness of having a named dev team, and coincidentally releasing after the devastating October dev log. Anything is welcome in these desperate times. I felt drawn from all of that and in need of a content fix, so I tried it out despite not being a huge fan of Renee. Unfortunately, I was met with a disappointing experience that I felt wasn't really shared with others, so I wrote this review partly to see if others feel the same way. I'm quite surprised to get a lot of agreement in one day.

Really, I think this mod was made just to have Andrew and Renee fuck and ignore what makes the game so good. The head of the mod team is a very vocal Renee fan whose main advertising is she's attractive and can fuck her son.

(Original post)

There is only one picture in there that shows the "horror" of the mod and it's the menu screen with the two holding weapons and Andrew cleaning his bloody cleaver. It's obvious that trying to adapt the game's plot was never part of the intention, it was just an excuse to eventually build up to them having sex.

[coffin-ramblings]

Hey, I saw the post you made about the mod, and I got to be honest, you make a lot of compelling arguments, though some I do disagree with, but the majority of it, I do agree. I might as well tell you how the development of the mod went for episode 1. In the beginning, we only have a few writers, decent ones, I might say. And near the end of the development of episode 1 mod that is when majority of our team was hired, and as of now I'll mainly focus on episode 2 development, now your argument had been compelling enough to actually raise some question within our team, including me. So I'm must say that there is possibly a plan to revamp episode 1 to be more in line for the character that we have created, even though my advisor heavily disagree with this decision I would like to press forward with it, in addition deal critiques is heavily related to one our writers that agree to most of you opinion of it.

As for me as well for my previous statement of the mod, yes I do have to accept the fact that during the beginning of this project I had created, my main intention of basically just to make them fuck (with a good story attached to it)

However, later down the road, I was more keen interested in making the story more believable.

Is my main goal still the same? A little.

But it has changed.

Coffin-rambling, as one of the founding members of the Graveyard Shift production

I wholeheartedly appreciate your review of our mod, thank you.

One last thing

If you have noticed a certain name that I have been bringing up, it's an old friend of mine from the the very beginning of this community.

u/hornyforMrsgrave

Me and I used to talk a lot about the game and mostly about Renee and how we will convert members of the community to worshiping Renee and shit like that, that is when he got the idea of a mod project, however during that time we were barely anyone noticeable, nobody to say the least. Later on, he grew in difference with the community, mostly due to him focusing too much on the negative of the community instead of the many positive events that happened at the time. Eventually, he left, and I stayed.

The idea of a mod project stay with me though, I mostly left it on a notepad as a wishful thinking, over the time, I grew more recognition in the community whether in helping people becoming friends or taking up responsibilities, until one day, a certain art piece from an artist remind me of the idea that we talk about.

From that point, I asked the artist if he can help with something. Safe to say, the rest is history.

You're a very hard critic, but you make a lot of points, I do hope to see you review our mod in episode 2.

-Unknown9337

Thank you for reading my review and sending me this nice art Unknown! I didn’t expect that you’d find it, and I really am glad to hear that you like it. Your mod has a lot of potential that I think can be improved, so I hope that my review isn’t too harsh. I’m also glad to hear the development process on your side and flattered that my review has influenced that much discussion. 

I’m planning to soon post a second part of my review focused on what I feel are unfortunate implications in the writing of Renee’s and Andrew’s relationship, and another post with two AUs I made with friends inspired by the mod. I hope you'll appreciate them.

[shutinlear53]

I reached the part of the planning & research phase where I have to ask my best friend for details. Like showering together with someone you love sounds rad but I sure don't know what it's like so I gotta ask the person who does

I looked for some Andy x Renee fanfics on AO3 and they are all so bad, I am now inspired to write the Agony in Pink of TCOAAL

[coffin-ramblings]

The mod has 35 people working on it, so I expect that it'll be strive to be as good as the original.

And please, tell me what tension is there that I missed in my 3 hours of playing this mod and 4 days of watching a playthrough to get the screenshots for my review. I would like to know very much.

I’m not even gonna lie, I get the feeling a lot of the hate towards the Renee and Andrew mod is coming from salty gravecest shippers. That or people are just taking it way too seriously. We get it, the mod is not nearly as good as the original, but it was never trying to be. It’s supposed to be a fun time where you can see Andrew and his mom have tension and fuck. What’s the problem here?