#tbh i actually prefer the recast even i think its better for the show but i also like the cast for doom patrol

[xialing-gf]

as someone who discovered dead boy detectives bcs of doom patrol, seeing everyone fall in love with the show makes me so happy because FUCKING FINALLY!! i've been waiting forever to talk about how much i love dbd <3

[bigskydreaming]

Do you shipp bats and superman? Or bruce and selina or you don't ship bruce with anyone?

Tbh, I don’t have strong preferences on the matter of Bruce’s ships. Its not a matter of disliking them usually, so much as just not being super hardcore one way or another lol.

I would say probably my go-to is Bruce/Selina, just because I love Selina and there’s that opposites attract element to them that can be hard to make work, but when it works, ugh, it just WORKS, y’know?

I do ship Bruce and Clark for similar reasons, though this is actually more of a recent thing, honestly.....back before I first left DC fandom the first time around, probably around 2012-2013, I definitely would not have called myself a Superbat shipper at all, but that didn’t really have anything to do with not seeing their potential or not liking the characters together. It was more just a byproduct of like.....back then, I didn’t really like how Bruce and Clark tended to be written together? 

Like, a lot of that was probably due to the tendency there sometimes is with slash ships to not really write just two male characters from some show or comic and put them in a relationship together, but rather to just kinda take two characters and write them in such a way that they feel like this kinda generic cookie cutter relationship that has more to do with going down a checklist of characteristics/specific moments/themes/etc than it does with who those characters are and what they’re like normally.

But for whatever reason, since I started getting back into DC fandom stuff last year, I’ve found a lot more Superbat fics that are a lot more to my liking, or that just FEEL more like Bruce and Clark in a relationship rather than coming across as two characters who have little in common with them and just happen to share the same names. I honestly have no idea what’s changed in the time since I was last in fandom til rejoining it, at least in regards to this specific ship and how its written, or just as equally likely, something changed about my perspective between then and now that made me read it differently or be more open to it than I was in the past. *Shrugs* Who knows. So again, its like Bruce/Selina, I’m not opposed to it at all, have enjoyed several, but I just don’t tend to ship Bruce the same way or to the degree I have ships I’m more invested in, for most of his kids.

My one big caveat with Bruce and Clark is that like, its GOT to be respectful of Lois, she still should have a presence in Clark’s life and not have been just...erased or overlooked or killed off or just sacrificed on the altar of Superbat to make room for them to get together, y’know? Like I don’t have a particular preference here, like, they could have previously discovered they just prefer being platonic soulmates and just have a super strong friendship that’s not threatened or replaced or lessened by what Clark comes to have with Bruce later, they could have previously been married and are amicably divorced now for whatever reason and still successfully co-parent Jon now, who splits his time between living with his Dad and Bruce and step-siblings at Wayne Manor, and then the rest of his time with his mom and her new girlfriend or wife Diana, perhaps...whatever. Not picky on the particulars, I just need Lois to still be important to Clark rather than treated as though an obstacle in the way of Superbat’s true love.

As far as other ships go......I never got on board with Bruce/Diana even though they do at times have great chemistry.....I’ve just never seen that really successfully resulting in an actual relationship....unless Clark is involved as kinda a...not buffer, exactly, so much as a third complemetary piece needed to complete the picture. Same thing with Clark and Diana too, though, their brief New 52 relationship not working for me for the same reasons. The full Trinity together in every sense of the word? I can dig it. Just two of them though....Clark and Bruce is the only pairing out of the three of them that actually fits on its own, IMO, because something about Clark and Diana has always just felt a little too....forced, or artificial to me for some reason, like.....people always try too hard to emphasize how good a pairing they make on paper, that it just never FEELS natural or organic in execution, and I’ve never really felt any interest in trying to execute a version of it myself to have any idea how my own attempt would fare. *Shrugs* 

And then Bruce and Diana on their own, like.....I think Diana respects the hell out of Bruce and will always have a soft spot for him, but her bullshit tolerance does come with a ceiling, and I think for Diana, Bruce is one of those people where she does better with him in small doses, lol. Too much exposure to Bruce, too constantly, and for too longterm.....I think she would end up being like “this relationship is starting to feel too much like a Greek tragedy, and not even one of the good ones, I gotta go, bye” lololol okay so it wouldn’t really be like that. I just mean.....Bruce thrives off of structure and rigid discipline in a way that Diana would find stifling, I believe? 

Don’t get me wrong, Diana is incredibly disciplined herself and capable of holding herself firm and steady in anything with a kind of discipline few others could ever dream of, but its not her PREFERENCE, I don’t think. She’d rather default to a freer approach to and through life, whereas Bruce can do that at times to accommodate loved ones needing or wanting that from him too, but at the end of the day, I think he’s always going to rather scheduling in some time set aside for the both of them, as something to look forward to....rather than just letting it come when it comes and then when it does, obsessing over whether he’s neglecting something else as a result. 

So again...Bruce and Clark I think work, but Bruce and Diana or Clark and Diana - require all three working in harmony to be what all three of them actually need and want from that triad.

And then Bruce and Talia I’ve talked about a couple times before in depth, and I have hugely complicated thoughts on them due to the sheer bullshit writers have subjected Talia to over the years. I try to ignore Morrison’s take on Damian’s conception as much as possible, like, I never go with that angle or that particular taint on their relationship unless for whatever reason its absolutely relevant to the plot - and I’ve never come up with a plot where it is, nor do I think I’m likely to. And this is for a couple of reasons - the first is that while I’m always saying that any writer could make a case for any character doing anything, conceivably, Damian’s conception as written by Morrison just...destroys so much of the amazingly complex and multi-faceted character Talia often was before he wrote that, and recasts every aspect of her and Bruce’s previous love story as just...a painful, not funny joke. Its not remotely something I ever want to read into those two, even if I’ve never shipped them as endgame myself. 

But at the same time, because it did so unequivocally happen in canon, I can never really blame others for accepting it as the reality of their relationship by this point, for whatever reason.....I mean, there’s the simple fact that something like that is so hugely personal to read about and see yourself in as a survivor, for instance, for any survivors who read Morrison’s story and afterward had trouble separating that view of Talia from previous stories of her....like to me, no matter how much I think Morrison is bullshit for writing that story, especially since its hardly like he had any interest in writing or acknowledging Bruce as a survivor in its aftermath.....I fully believe Morrison was like “how can I make Bruce a biological father who owes nothing to the mother and has no obligation to share the child with her or fight over custody or anything like that.” 

Which is a shitty reason to do that particular kind of story. And why I don’t blame anyone for disregarding it, as I try to whenever possible, but neither do I blame anyone for finding their relationship kinda ruined in the wake of it, just because sometimes its physically/emotionally just hard to see PAST that kind of thing, even when you know the reasons for it existing at all are threadbare in the first place. 

(Its like how I do write and focus on Bruce’s abusive behavior with some of his kids in the past, not because I necessarily LIKE to, so much as it just being such a personal topic to me that from the second it was written into his character and dynamics, whether written WELL or PLAUSIBLY or not, it just became impossible for me to pretend it just never happened or I never read any of those stories, so I have to find some way to tackle it in my stories and takes. But because I do think that the reasons for writing Bruce act that way in the first place were always poorly thought through, and it is a disservice to a lot of the reasons others love the character, I don’t blame them for disliking it and disregarding it themselves, so long as they don’t shit on me or my reasons for not doing the same).

So yeah, I don’t tend to write that particular element into Bruce and Talia’s story ever, for all those above reasons and also one other specific one: it doesn’t just make Talia a rapist and Bruce a survivor, it makes Damian the child of rape. And he’s just had so much shit to deal with in his life with everything else alone, I never am comfortable heaping that onto him as well, because sooner or later it WOULD eventually become something he had to deal with, and no easy thing to deal with, so I’m just like....what if he didn’t have that particular issue to deal with ever.

NOW, all that said....Bruce and Talia still even without that have never really been an endgame ship for me, but rather something that’s kinda always been doomed to be a tragic romance, like they’re each other’s one that forever got away. And that’s because for me, unlike Bruce and Selina being opposite in just the right ways, Bruce and Talia are alike in the wrong ways. Its part of WHY they have the connection they do, and such a deep one....they GET each other, in ways I don’t think anyone else has ever truly understood them. They might not subscribe to the same beliefs, even have the same morals, they might not be willing to use the same methods, their ultimate goals aren’t necessarily the same....but their PASSION for their goals, their beliefs, their commitment to doing whatever each believes they have to do in order to see their goals fulfilled, to see that they never stray from what they believe is their duty, their reasons for existing....THAT is something I think they’ve both always understood about each other, that they have in common. Both believe too strongly in what THEY believe and value as most important, to be truly willing to give that up and follow the other to their goal or along their path instead.....and they get that, so they never truly ask that of each other, or at least aren’t surprised nor hold it against the other when they turn them down. I think they do love each other, and on some level always will.....and it might not even be that they don’t WANT to give everything else up to be with them.....its just, I don’t think either truly knows how to do that and still be them, like they know that even were they to make that choice, it would cost them too much of what makes them THEM, to ever truly do it.

And aside from that, even in an AU setting where Talia didn’t raise Damian in the League, where he wasn’t forced to grow up fighting the way he did, and say she spirited him away and into hiding at birth to hide him from Ra’s, but still never sought Bruce out til Damian was ten or so, even if only because Bruce is too easy for Ra’s to find or keep an eye on....basically, I just mean even in an AU where Talia was a great mom to Damian from Day One til the day Bruce met Damian, and she only kept him from Bruce for ten years or whatever for Damian’s safety....I think that would still destroy any chance of Bruce and Talia ever being together after that, just because in that kind of scenario, Bruce might absolutely understand why she did what she did, even agree with it....and still not be able to get PAST it, not to the degree of....trusting her with his heart again, even if they were perfectly able to coexist well for Damian’s sake. Bruce missed out on the first parts of all his other childrens’ lives because they were someone else’s first. The fact that Damian is the one and only kid of his that theoretically, there was nothing keeping Bruce from being a part of that from day one....like this is the one and only way I will ever accept Bruce having a distinct view of Damian as being different from his other kids in his eyes....its not about him being Bruce’s biological son, its about him being Bruce’s son that he never had to be second to come into his life, that there was nothing stopping him from being there from the start....the fact that Talia, for any reason, did keep him from that, even were it with the best intentions, IMO....that would be something that might not even be Bruce’s to ‘forgive’ per se, like that’s not even the right word to describe certain scenarios that might result in that.....but it would still just irrevocably change something between them I don’t think they could ever get back.

So except for AUs where Talia brought Damian to Bruce right after he was born and stayed with him to raise Damian together, I don’t see them ever working out longterm.....and I don’t really see Talia ever giving up her own beliefs as to how to live her life, shape the world, wield her influence....just to live in Bristol with Bruce and raise Damian with him, even as there is nothing really in that case keeping Bruce from still at the same time continuing to be Batman and do all of that the way HE prioritizes. But again, by the same token.....I also don’t see the inverse ever happening, where Talia finds a way to go where she needs to and do what she believes needs doing, with Damian in tow....and Bruce willing to give up being Batman to just come along for the ride and to help raise Damian. So yeah, ultimately, for me those two are the ultimate tragic romance of Bruce’s core ships, where love has nothing to do with whether or not they work out....just rather who and what they are getting in the way of what they are too each other.