#tbbo 9w8

[enneamage]

so, any thoughts about the ashbo breakup and whether a certain level of avoidant attachment style is common among 9s?

Well, I gave it a google and it’s looking like we’re back in the uncanny valley, this looks really familiar.

Since Sixes and Nines find it very difficult to say what is actually on their minds (and what they really want for themselves), there is a great tendency in this relationship to clam up, to be silently stubborn and defensive, and to make the other person guess what is going on. If there is little motive to do so, the two parties will fall into a stalemate that keeps the other at arm's distance, yet close enough so that the other will not drift away. They may also begin to have health problems or other nonspecific complaints about themselves that seeks to bind the couple in cords of concern and guilt. Psychological or physical problems help to ensure that the other person will continue to be there. Moreover, while these two types fulfill social roles very well, they both tend to disappear in their roles too completely for their own good. Sixes are frequently burdened by guilt feelings and doggedly do whatever they think they must do to keep their job or their security in place. They try to make sure that they have covered the bases so that no one will be angry at them for failing in their responsibility. Nines also fulfill roles, but these usually have to do with mediating between people to keep them together in some way. They accommodate themselves and go along with what others need even as their own stress grows. Another potential problem is that both types love the familiar and dislike change. The feeling is that familiarity equals security, which is reinforced by the conviction that they must not rock the boat. Both types will tend to put off confrontations until they are pushed to the limit, although Sixes have a shorter fuse concerning their anger. They will either give up on the Nine, or there will be an explosion in which a backlog of pent up hostilities will be said, often to the permanent damage of the relationship.

X

At this point in his life it’s safe to say that Tubbo is unusually “good” at freezing out and dancing around negative emotions, just from watching his behavior. His instincts tell him to dig his heels in and then any push to the contrary just sends him down further, creating a spiral. It’s really going to take him willfully and consciously deciding to change if he wants things to be different from now on.

His (ex)boyfriend is a real shot in the dark, if it weren’t for being able to ballpark his type I would know next to nothing about him, but it sounds like things played out quite like the above, especially with the blog post out there.

I think at “unhealthy” levels Nines have a unique blend of dependency and avoidance that will vary depending on the situation. Tubbo leaning more avoidant under stress rings true from what we’ve seen, but he can also enmesh with people more than the average avoidant. I wouldn’t call Nines as a whole avoidant in the classic attachment style sense, but I would say that they can avoid certain thoughts or feelings to a pretty extreme degree in order to keep themselves “Safe,” and that can look like leaning into people as easily as it can look like leaning away from people depending on the situation and where the “problem” is.

[enneamage]

if youre still looking for more ideas, tubbo content is always very interesting imo. he has so many varied relationships with other ccs and can get so different depending on who he is speaking to (autism type beat)

One part of me wishes I was up more on the Tubbo cinematic universe but he’s a true streamer and has the hours in to prove it. I feel like I’m timid to touch on his relationships because there’s less of the clip culture around him interacting with the Greater Streamer Sphere narrowing down the key moments in those streams. As a Nine it makes sense that Tubbo has a natural fluidity to him based on who he hangs out with, he’s got the range to mesh with a lot of different types of people one-on-one.

An interesting thing is the way that Tubbo kept getting adopted by Eights. Both Hassan and Schlatt have a big soft spot for him, 8w9 and 9w8 solidarity. I think they resonate with his vulnerability and his strength at the same time; he’s the kind of underdog that Eights can get very attached to.

[enneamage]

Can you go more into Tubbo's repressed discontent with Tommy that you mentioned in your last post? Do you think any of that is still affecting their relationship now? Sometimes I get the feeling when Tommy and Tubbo interact that Tommy is looking for who Tubbo used to be, and while he rewards Tubbo for being endearing and accommodating when it happens, he gets easily frustrated when Tubbo is being more like how he presents himself now. Tommy has commented a few times, for example, about how angry Tubbo is nowadays compared to before. Do you think Tubbo has just grown more open with expressing his discontent?

This one is a gut call, because I wasn’t around for peak clingy, but I did see snips. There was a general feeling that Tommy could get away with doing things that Tubbo couldn’t in their dynamic, a kind of in-built unevenness. Tubbo was the one who regularly got backhanded and trampled in certain situations when Tommy was really in a mood. Tubbo took it and could handle it, but I doubt it made him happy. I feel like Tubbo has forgiven but he hasn’t forgotten, not in a grudge way but in the sense that his understanding of who Tommy is might still be tied to those days, which Tommy isn’t helping along by acting chaotic to try and get his attention. He still values his friendship but he’s not a doormat anymore, he's been pushed well beyond the edge.

I think that these two need to re-learn each other if they want to be close friends again. In previous posts I talked as though they would be a constant, but lately I’ve been thinking that they’re probably at a bit of a crossroads right now. I don’t have any solid guesses for what they’re going to do next, but it’s going to take some flexibility and active effort from both sides to build something new out of what they’ve got.

[enneamage]

Very Non-exaustive Tubbo lore-life post, this one runs short because he's a complex man and I wouldn't want to over-reach on a detail.

The Tubbo to c!tubbo continuum is funny because I could fuzz up my eyes and look at his irl tubnet life overlaid with his industrious Minecraft history and be like “yeah that’s the same guy. He was the president and then he went on to run a Minecraft server, I’ve heard of him.” Man has always wanted to pour himself into a project and build something that he could share with others.

Tubbo was a relatively peaceful, intensity-seeking eccentric. As time went on and hurts piled up, Tubbo entered into an unspoken negotiation with the world regarding how to protect himself & the people he is attached to from harm. From there he became more untrusting and reclusive, creating his own spaces and becoming concerned with the means to defend them so they couldn't be taken from him.

As it stands, c!Tubbo's story is shaped around falling back and trying to find ways to keep a private peace under dangerous conditions. Again, the DSMP is a bit of a hellscape so this is not irrational, but his pattern falls in line closely with his IRL instincts when under stress.

[enneamage]

do you have any deduction about what happened with beeduo? some say it was the circumstances, but i think that they weren't as compatible as they thought (an online friendship is very different than living with the person) and they rushed things but Idk. would you do an enneagram about them?

I’m doing a twofold disclaimer for this one—I wasn’t watching Tubbo or Ranboo at the time they were living together, and am mostly working off of the scraps that other people have highlighted in retrospect. This is primarily inductive thinking, meaning that instead of taking big pieces and making them smaller, I’m taking small pieces and making them bigger using what I’ve got. This means that I’m swinging real wide for them and am probably missing massive practical details.

I’ll start this off by citing one of my sources, the “trouble spots or issues” section of this relationship matrix, or as I like to call it the great big book of breakups.

Both Twos and Nines tend to give away their power and to go along with the agendas of others. Yet, one of the parties will have to wear the pants in the family, taking charge and making decisions. Doing so goes against the grain of both types, although either will take charge if necessary. However, negotiating power and decision making in a Two/Nine couple puts both parties under increasing stress and both tend to feel that they are being forced into the bad guy role in the family—and that they will be resented and unloved while their partner gets off the hook. Further, neither finds it easy to talk about their feelings or their growing discontent with the power balance in the relationship, or with any other sources of resentment and potential conflicts that they may have. Twos tend to actually take over too much, becoming domineering and controlling, not hesitating to boss the Nine around and to speak with surprising harshness to him or her. But because Twos can rationalize their motives and see themselves only as all loving, they can continue without feeling guilty or embarrassed. Nines find it difficult to find their own voice and to speak up for themselves. But when the Nine actually does speak up, the Two often takes this as a lack of gratitude and tries to turn the Nine's comments around on them. Twos are not good at taking criticism, and when Nines find the courage to speak up, they may go overboard with a load of old resentments that have pilled up. The result is that Nines withdraw into silence and become passive-aggressive as a way of dealing with their anger, while Twos feel unappreciated, misunderstood, and rejected. Both try to keep everything quiet and normal on the surface, although they begin to deteriorate into longer silences with each other-and more distance, including less physical contact. An air of tension takes over, punctuated by angry outbursts and recriminations. The couple that seems so unassuming and supportive tends to end through attrition and drifting apart. Nobody wants to talk about what has really happened, no body wants to take responsibility for the deterioration of the relationship, and things eventually simply fall apart.

It's looking like they largely went the way of the write-up. Tubbo was more on the side that didn’t communicate, and Ranboo was on the side that wasn’t good at taking information for what it was. When Twos are in the grips of feeling like they need to intervene in other peoples lives to feel alright, they can have a hard time seeing scenarios for more than opportunities to do something. Nines can respond by bottling themselves up and making themselves smaller as a defensive move, retreating away from the problem. This seems like a pattern that has carried on until today, Tubbo is still retreating from Ranboo, and Ranboo may still be trying to reach out and 'make things better.' (If it really would be better for both of them is... unclear.)

At this point it looks like Tubbo has so heavily associated being around Ranboo with being controlled that he can’t tolerate it, at all. On the other side, Ranboo has only fairly recently made peace with the idea of being disliked by strangers, let alone old flames, so this is going to take a while. I hope the two of them can grow past this, not in a making-up way, but in the broader sense of leaving some of the habits that got them in trouble with each other behind.

When someone just gets you and you feel like you flow into each other smoothly, it’s easy to forget that you still need to be able to communicate, especially if you’ve never had to do it before and don’t have the instincts. Learning communication, as well as how to listen and peacefully negotiate, is kind of like breaking and re-setting a bone. It is not something that is encouraged as a skill through most young life, and then suddenly you need to re-learn everything because the old method isn’t working anymore. These two caught each other at an awkward time in their lives where those skills were even less developed than the presumed adults in the Two/Nine breakup, so these teenage gamer boys are still dealing with the fallout of their own natures as well as each others.

[enneamage]

do you think there’s a reason tubbo seems to be so ignorant beyond his privileged upbringing? like does his personality factor into his lack of knowledge/research about certain topics? it’s fairly hard to grow up as a teenager in this day and age and be completely unknowledgeable about certain world issues yet he is. is he just stubborn? does he just not care enough to look into it/does he not know of the right resources to look into things? is it some other reason entirely?

So, there’s layers to this one.

I'm actually not familiar with what “world issues” he seems to struggle with, other than the things that lead to the Tory allegations. Since I'm not a regular viewer I won't be able to give specific examples, but it looks like he falls into a broader pattern so I'll have a guess at that.

The question of how he hasn’t passively gained information because of his time on the internet might have something to do with his dyslexia. While there are more social video and audio platforms than there used to be, the majority of the internet is still written text, and when I think back on how I learned about “World Issues” and the general attitudes people had about them, it was 99% scrolling and reading.

Now I’m not saying he can’t read, but reading things is going to be more of a struggle for him than a simple, passive scroll on whatever the website he’s on, so he’s going to be more selective with what he pays attention to. In general, he may be someone who's learning style / way he needs to be taught is different from the post format of the kinds of websites that talk about these things. This leaves him at the mercy of his social circle and the people who make regular contact with him, making it easier to get caught in a bubble. This assumes that he’s even following the kind of people who post about “world issues” to begin with, the social justice movement is big online but it isn’t as hard to find a niche that doesn’t hold those beliefs / talk about them as one might think from the inside. From there, he doesn’t know what he doesn’t know, so he can’t be proactive about it.

If the question is 'why is he so abrasive/indelicate when he doesn’t understand something and it makes him uncomfortable', that we can blame on the heavy Eight wing and being raised an English boy. It may be possible for him to take a ��can’t be bothered’ stance on certain issues because of his nature. He wants to be a nice, caring person, but from his perspective he may not see the point in emotionally / intellectually investing in things that don’t involve him if they cause him grief.

Tubbo seems to lean towards interrogating ideas when he encounters them. While this might come off as rejecting or combative, it might not necessarily be the case. From what I’ve seen of him, he likes to take ideas apart and stress-test them to see if they make sense before he accepts them into his existing worldview; he's exploring. While this probably has a nails-on-a-chalkboard effect for people who are more aware of how sensitive handing topics like that in public is, it’s an effort to give the concept a fair shake. From there he can sometimes get stuck on a detail and struggle with being re-directed, but chat-on-streamer conversations lack nuance by their nature, so that just digs the hole deeper.

I know people say ‘go google it,’ but honestly it’s not that easy to google things and find the best in-depth resources. Goggle can give you the facts, but it won’t always give you the broader social context or the attitudes or a good idea of how many people think one way or the other. Usually being around to witness the bigger social media conversation is a part of how people get this passive knowledge that it feels like ‘everyone knows’, because everyone in your circle is talking about it. If he’s got that removal from the cultural stew, a Wikipedia article isn’t going to be able to properly catch him up.

[enneamage]

Out of all the type 9s who is the best at being a 9 and who is the worst. Who's getting voted off the type 9 island. Who's getting excommunicated to like their wing or their growth point or something. I want bloodsport

A bit of reality TV let's go--

Standard disclaimer this is wildly subjective nobody can be their type wrong but this is a battle of who would show up as the textbook picture of a Nine in a 101 class.

The first elimination is Karl for being spliced with type Three regardless of how ‘healthy’ or ‘unhealthy’ he is. Wildly methodical and always on the grind, if someone introduced me to Karl as a Three that only got one hour of sleep last night I would believe it for a while.

Jack Manifold is going to be exiled to his One wing, in a good way. He has very little of The Sleepyness and a lot of The Intensity, he will be shuttled off to the neighboring island but still be heard from the shore if you listen carefully enough.

Sapnap has a complex relationship to his anger and has some confrontational reflexes. He will be sent to go hang out with the Eights since that part of him is fairly pronounced.

Tubbo, having become the bossman, may graduate into his Eight wing, and together the Eights will welcome him with open arms. (This spot is temporary and might actually be rooted in him going to Six for a while under stress, but for now he’s in good company.)

As has been explored from me thinking out loud, Tina is the kind of Nine that one could easily mistake for a Two, so she gets voted off the island for her versatility.

George is pretty far up in the round because he’s relatively pleasant while also being sloth incarnate some days. While I could put him at the top, Dream is pulling up in his speedboat to pick him up now and if we don’t hand him over things are going to get violent. (Not really an elimination but he’s so merged with his friends that his actions are entwined with theirs innately, which both is and isn’t an example of a Perfectly Nineish Nine.)

Foolish is a solid Nine specimen, a hard worker who loves flow activities. Reliable and slightly spacey in nonintrusive ways, he gets an honorable mention before we get to the final round.

Our top two representing the Eight and One of the Perfectly Nineish Nines:

Hanging in there to represent the Nine wing Ones we have Niki, who has been through literally everything and still emerged a consistently kind person. Moral while still remaining interpersonally considerate, Niki is surfing the highs and lows with a uniquely Nineish flavor.

On the side of the eight wing we have Phil, also representing his emerald counterpart who would share his spot. Integrated to Three in terms of knowing how and when to take center stage but not to an overly demanding degree, a rounded individual with a love of flow activities and absurd video game skill.

[enneamage]

Clingyduo compatibility in a relationship?

The results are in: They get along.

I feel like I know these two as a unit less than I should. They were very young at peak clingy, and I wanted to give The Youths some room when I started watching streamers, so I haven't seen as much from them at that time. They really did read like cartoon characters when I first encountered them, the energetic red one and the mellower eccentric blue one. Of course they’re both a lot more complicated than that, but it goes to show how naturally they seemed to flow into each other.

When looking around at anecdotal stuff, some profiles will mention that Sixes and Nines are also very commonly found together, both as friends and romantic partners. I've seen a lot of steadfast devotion between these types in many walks of life, so they've got statistical majority power backing them up.

Tommy is a very active, counterphobic fella who can get deep into his Seven wing. However, he’s very drawn to people who feel stable and reliable to him, giving him a secure base to come back to time and time again. Tubbo has historically been mellow and stable, putting his consistency and focus towards the things and people that he values most.

It’s hard to write a paragraph about people vibing together because of how low-maintenance and simple it can be. Still, these two have a long-shared history of being able to relax into each others company. This snip says it well:

Type Sixes with Type Nines have much in common: a love for chilling at home, a balanced routine and checking all the boxes at work so they can rest hard when it’s time to unwind. Although gifted at resting, this pairing can likewise get moving and down to business like none other when they hit their hardworking, creative place. The Type Six offers the Type Nine courage to find their voice in the world, and the Type Nine likewise brings rest and relaxation to the often neurotic Six. Once the Six allows the Nine to grow independently and the Nine understands the logical steps the Six needs to take to find security, they vibe so well. For helping getting to this point, communication help is of essence.

X

Coming back to the anime childhood friends theme, the thing with these two is that they’ve already been in each others lives long enough to shape each other. This is both a strong base for their stability, and the root of some issues that they would have to work out between themselves if they were to move from /p to /r.

I think a history with Tommy may have contributed, at least somewhat, to Tubbo’s passive-aggressive reflexes. This is keeping in mind the fact that passive-aggression is already a big thing with Nines, so it’s less that Tommy put them there and more he added fuel to the fire at times. Considering some pretty pointed “you’re a narcissist” comments from Tubbo in the past, Tommy has a history of trampling over him and not addressing that in the way that he should have, moving Tubbo into thinking that confrontation was a moot point with him.

While they may have cleared that hurdle now, their biggest roadbump would be that the energy between them was unequal for a long time, even if it was just a power dynamic of personality. Tubbo could handle Tommy like nobody else could, but it required getting used to his toes being stepped on at times. Tommy values the hell out of Tubbo, probably more than he historically had the skills to convey, so it wasn’t a lack of regard, just a lack of good instincts. While I think this is closer to being mended than ever before, they probably still have a ways to go in certain areas, and some separation has allowed them both to grow.

These two remain caring and mutually supportive of each other. They’ve moved some of their friendship back off camera, which is considerate of Tubbo’s preferences right now. These two have been a solid unit and acted as each others primary social supports before, so those skills might have rolled into partnership in another life, but this one seems to have other plans.

We both desire stability, comfort, and love, and we find that in each other. The Nine can offer the Six a sense of predictability because Nines tend to be steady overall. Their calm demeanor can be stabilizing for the Six, who may be more skeptical and alert to issues overall. The Six’s tendency to be more quick-minded and action-oriented can help the Nine be a more active force in their own life. Mutual devotion, loyalty, and shared values are important to us. We can cultivate a deep friendship marked by unity, affection, support, and healthy interdependence. In moments of stress, the Six’s questioning can feel accusatory to the Nine, while the Nine’s withdrawal can feel like abandonment to the Six. In general, Sixes can be reactive in conflict, which can leave the Nine tip-toeing to avoid setting the Six off. Meanwhile, the Nine’s reluctance to share their thoughts, express themselves, or deal with conflict can leave the Six feeling like the Nine is not being fully transparent, which can leave the Six suspicious of their motives and doubtful of their connection.

X

[enneamage]

I think Ranboo is am interesting case study because he serves as an example of an unhealthy and relatively healthy (though obviously still growing) 2. I dont know when you saw that clip of him that put you off of him, but I think his passive-aggressiveness was at its peak when he was severely depressed and was taking it out on others in the only way he knew how, maybe not even consciously.

More recently, I think he's shown much more of that warmth and caring nature 2s are known for, perhaps because he feels more supported by his community a friends.

Conversely, I think Tubbo is becoming an example of an unhealthy 9 (with many of his 8 traits coming through) probably due to stress.

Aaah that would make sense, I'm glad if he's pulling himself out of it now. I pulled away from clips so I wouldn't get frustrated with his content, so if he's turned things around that's good. Twos actually do really well on YouTube (and probably Twitch by extension) for their ability to connect with other creators and an audience, if he can keep that going he's going to be in a good place.

Yeah Tubbo is Stressed As Fuck and I cannot blame him in the slightest. He's fighting upstream against a lot of factors.

[enneamage]

I guess you will be talking about it more when you will be explaining your reasoning later, but I always seen Tubbo more as a 6 than 9. Community, belonging and family seem to be very important for him and he seems to have the loyalist like need to be of use in society. Beside that, after all, not counting his parents, he does have a bit of attitude issues with authorities and doesn't like being told what to do. That always made me think more about 6.

He’s for sure got all of those traits as part of his core identity and I wouldn’t push against them, just how I would sort them.

The ‘preservation of inner peace’ in the Nine thinking style can come in the form of choosing to not be bothered, but it can also come in the form of defending against intrusion. This is also a form of not wanting to be controlled, a ‘Don’t come into my space’ defensive stance where they push back to establish themselves and what they think is right. Tubbo feels like he’s got a lot of this, but it isn’t indiscriminate. He knows what he wants to flow into and be part of versus what he wants nothing to do with because he's affected by both so strongly.

Tubbo also doesn’t seem to have Six-style abandonment anxiety- in fact, he withdraws into himself regularly, so he’s more of the leaver. He likes people and he likes being with people, but he doesn’t use them to learn the rules of the world in the way a core Six would. He still seeks stability and security to have roots down with people, but with where he’s at now, he would walk away from a bad situation much faster than a Six.

Tubbo also seems to have a very strong Eight wing, with his industrious thinking and determination. This isn’t strictly personality and predisposition based though, Good ol’ Maslow’s hierarchy is functioning in the way it should, he’s finding his purpose and contributing to the world in a way that he’s always wanted. He is building an empire and that is nuts.

The types of ~the inner triangle~ kind of flow together, because all of their disintegration / growth points are touching (3->6->9.) This can make them harder to tell apart sometimes when they’re doing either very well or very badly. I was looking up the profiles to be sure I had it right and came across this passage, which is kind of grimly familiar.

Nines attempt to avoid anxiety and conflict by detaching emotionally from active participation and by not talking about their real concerns and issues. But they can only use this defense up to a point, beyond which they can no longer contain their anxiety, frustration, and fear. At such times, they will begin to exhibit many of the characteristics and behaviors of average-to-unhealthy Sixes. The usually stable, easygoing Nine becomes worried, testy, and defensive. They begin to see others as the source of their unease, complaining to anyone who will listen, and blaming everyone else for their distress. They may also have issues with authority, feeling put upon or controlled by those they see as having power over them. Under prolonged stress, Nines completely lose their placid demeanor and become more and more reactive and nervous. They may seek help and reassurance from others but may just as quickly disparage them for "dominating" or "overwhelming" them. X

Tubbo is also going through a hell of a hard time right now that won’t show up on a spectrum in a non-medical personality framework, so there’s a whole world of variables that I can’t measure. Still, this is generally why I put him as a core Nine.