#tbb story reels

[local-cryptid]

crying shame this didnt make the final episodes

[klmwrites]

So i just got about watching episodes 15 and 16 of TBB season 2 today. Major spoilers ahead!

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This was my genuine reaction upon watching both episodes:

What. The. Hell?!!

There is alot to unpack here, mainly because we got not one but TWO shocking revelations here. I'm not gonna try and disact them in this post, my mind is still reeling from what I just watched. I will however discuss the three plausible theories I have seen swimming about online with regards to Tech's death. They are:

1. Tech is alive. One of the best explanations I have seen with this theory thus far is that he managed to grapple(?) onto a cable car pillar and slide his way down to the ground and sustained major injuries in the process. Nevertheless, he is still alive.

2. Tech died during the fall, and his body has been detained by Dr Hemlock for experimentation.

3. On Dr Hemlock's orders, Tech was rescued midair and brought back to the facility alive.

My heart aches for Tech, it truly does. But if we are to be realistic, it would seem at present circumstances with the limited information we have at hand on the situation that number 2 seems to be the most realistic option. This is because:

Based on where the batch was stranded, it did not seem that they were near any cable car pillars. Even if they were, realistically it would be impossible for Tech to slide his way down to the ground. Tech most likely only had one grappling hook on his person, and even if he didn't would it would not have been humanly possible to direct his own body towards the pillar and subsequently slide down to the ground. Unless he has a few tricks up his sleeve we were not aware about....

It would make sense that Dr Hemlock would take Tech back to the facility to be experimented on. He always used clones as scientific subjects, but just imagine not just a clone but a genetically enhanced clone? Dr Hemlock would absolutely have a field day if he had his hands on one such clone. Knowing his character, he is most likely indifferent to the aliveness of Tech, and coupled with the height the latter fell from it is most likely Tech is now corpse lying in the morgue of Hemlock's lab.

It is worth noting that alot of people predict that Tech would be back in season 3 as a darktrooper. I honestly think that is possible, and seeing a cold and calculating version of Tech working for the empire would be absolutely terrifying.

I'm genuinely curious about people's sentiments on where Tech's story will go from here, so imma be doing a poll on it. Now excuse me while i crawl into a corner and bawl my eyes out 🥺😭

[renton6echo]

I’ve been trying to write down how I felt after the two-part season finale. It felt like a lot and not enough all at once?

I am so sad about the loss of Tech. He was always a bright spot in each episode, and I wanted more time to sit and mourn and let the loss sit with the characters. Dr. Hemplot is always there to get our characters moving. So we didn’t get that time to contemplate while both the Batchers and audience are reeling from the death. Some scenes, but just a lot more plot. A lot of SW stories suffer from being beholden to the larger narrative. TBB occasionally has this issue. The show is really at it’s strongest when it takes time to focus on its characters and how they interact with the world. It doesn’t do well when it’s central characters are eaten up by the constant need to move plot along. I think this finale could have easily been another 30 minutes long.

Maybe I am just still in shock from the death of Tech. Be back later. I’m just gonna be sad now.

[clonehub]

Episode 8 of the bad batch

It just occurred to me they have neither a crawl nor a narrator.

Crosshairs voice is so 🥴 (derogatory)

See this is what they shouldve shown more of for wrecker: someone who actually displays the skills in his job. He's a demo expert but for the most part he fires a gun. I have my own hcs about wrecker primary and secondary and tertiary knowledge but do I trust the team to give wrecker that depth and firmly move him away from the lazy and racist writing of Big Muscle Small brain. No. But this moment w him and omega is cute bc it solidifies how close they are and I'm never against a big guy being friends w a kid.

"I'm not crazy" *annoying laugh*

"I failed my first disarming test too" adding that to the vault w the line "he's losing his touch"

Wreckers walk cycle here is so dbaknskajskss

So is that guy just dead?????

She ran all the way over there w that big ass gun 😭

Hunters armor doesn't seem v protective

Echo's sense of honor and duty is still so strong

I wonder how far they are from the bridge

Man I feel so bad for echo like this whole thing has been him a butting heads with the rest of the batch

"mlst likely" tech cmon

It's funny bc if this was on TV that would have been a commercial break

What do you mean they didn't see them come on 😭

Oh is this the episode where omega kills people and they just don't mention it

"aim for the kid" LMAOOOOO

Idk like. They're so ready to kill the clones but when it's a non clone they use stun blasts and I think it's been like that in every situation so far

YEAH OMEGA IS KILLING THE CLONES TOO?? WHAT THE FUCK???

Yeah I can't. Like this whole fight don't sit right w me the way wrecker is so brutal w the regs and throwing them off places and the regs are getting like pinned under debris

I wonder how they design these parts of the ship like is there already a Way These Work or do they just add what's necessary

Man don't interrupt techs info dump

Crosshairs yelling voice is not what I expected

Damn crosshair really finna roast them

I'm so sorry but echos delivery when

DONT YALL GOT LESS THAN TWO MINUTES?

This is a more subtle arrangement of their theme which I appreciate

Crosshair being unlucky enough for his helmet to fall off lmao

Ouch omega going through all this w no armor

Oooh creepy. Poor 8508

PLEASE THE FUCKING GUITAR FOR CAD BANE

"I'm not like other clones"

Banes got a good look to him here

This stand off was originally boba and bane I remember seeing the reel

This music has taken this episode from scary and kinda heartbreaking straight to camp of the corniest varieties like the tone of it is just too different

Wait it's working a little

This kinda annoys me that tbb can get shot in the chest and still live but literally no other clone but Rex (bc he's a MC) has that benefit

Crosshair w all these bandages 😭

They should show more HUD povs tbh

Tew be honiss.....tbb doesn't need to be a 16 episodes season. If they'd cut out nearly all the middle episodes that don't include crosshair or deal w the empire in some way it'd be tighter as a story since there was so much time dedicated to avoiding developing them. This is why ppl say the lacing felt a bit off, like in canon it really can't have been more than a few weeks at the most but the way it's being handled it's like crosshair disappeared and has been gone for so long he either never existed or the bad batch don't think about him anymore

[chopper-base]

...I got a comment asking for a second chapter of my Crosshair story Dark Troubles and somehow that comment reeled me back to Bad Batch cause I'm back to hyperfocusing on TBB.

...specifically Crosshair...

Fuck

[feltpool]

Or, for more than just the Bad Batch arc, you can click here to go to where you can download the complete Crystal Crisis on Utapau reels as well as scenes from unfinished story arcs.

There’s also a zip file for subtitles for at least some of the reels.

i'll do you all a favour, the original bad batch story reels aren't avaliable anymore but your boy has them all on dropbox. there are so many good moments that were left out...including rex talking about fives and echo, sleepy time crosshair, some good boy banter, tech wearing his goggles on the top of his head

The bad batch

A Distant Echo

On the Wings of Keeradaks

Unfinished Business

[rishi-eel]

Echo’s original Bad Batch design as seen in the story reels of the unfinished Kashyyyk arc. The design is reminiscent of his ARC Trooper armour (with pauldrons and chest amour that’s absent from his TBB show design). Echo also has a full cybernetic arm. But most of all, the base model is that of Rex, suggesting that Echo would have been rendered with darker skin, rather than in his pale, emaciated state. Why the change?

[gizkalord]

I’m gonna ask a couple pages this btw, I’m just lost. I’m not trying to add fuel to the fire here or anything, but where are all these white washing accusations coming from? I mean like, why now? None of the clones look lighter to me in TBB than they did all along in TCW? But nobody said white washing was happening back then, so it feels weird happening now. Honestly Tamuera never seemed THAT dark to begin with, so I guess it just never stood out to me. I’m not taking a side here btw, it just feels, idk sudden? I think I’m just out of the loop, I was so wrapped up in going “WOO more Clone Wars!” and then everybody started shitting on it ☹️

So I think this carrd put together by clonehub is a good overview/summary of the problems in the bad batch, and why the designs of the bad batch are particularly egregious.

For the normal clones, my personal opinion that their design is much better compared to the bad batch, even though they're flawed. There are still problems with cool/bright light excessively washing out their skin color and issues with character model deviations from temeura's ethnic features that point to a lack of full understanding of how the environment interacts with dark skin and how to effectively convey ethnicity through stylized art. There are areas of improvement, it's not perfect, but to me, at the very least the regular clones are unambiguously Not White. The same really cannot be said for the bad batch or omega.

As for the suddenness, it can take time for conversations like this to gain traction, and I think this conversation has been growing steadily for a while now. The first time I watched the bad batch unfinished reels all those years ago, it never occurred to me, as a light-skinned poc, that their designs and backstory could be problematic. It took listening and having conversations with Black and brown fans to understand why people were upset. Fans of color are also a minority within fandoms in general, so a lot those voices end up going unheard until more and more people hear them out and start amplifying them.

And regarding your last point, I don't think you should feel bad or weird about being happy at more tcw! I can only speak for myself, but I genuinely love tcw (it was my gateway into the sw universe beyond the movies!) and I liked a lot of the initial story direction in tbb so far. And that's why I feel so strongly about wanting the creators to recognize and improve on the flaws in their shows and listen to fans of color when it comes to portraying characters of color.

[ladykatakuri]

How i want to rant about the TBB writing

So after gathering my thoughts, but still unable to truly reel in my feelings about this season of The Bad Batch ( especially the finale ), i figured i would chime in on how i see things.

Starting with the glaring obvious: Crosshair!

They have done him so dirty. Seriously dirty. If they wanted him to become the villain in the story, that is alright, I can accept that and love my villain all the same.

But the whole set up on his character has been that of someone who needed something badly, was searching for something while maintaining his snarky and crude personality. All the time they have been keeping us guessing on when the chip would fail on him and when he would realize what was happening.

All the signs are there that he still has his chip, despite his claim that he had it removed long ago.

Now we have seen him turn against his brothers and choose to join the Empire. He then slowly began to show the signs of not wanting to kill them and actually wanting to reunite with them. Rampart wanted them as his prisoners and probably used for the cloning under the Empire and then killed, while Crosshair had his own plans. He missed shots, seemed more conflicted then ever, had headaches and then the engine blasts to the head? Sure thing his chip would malfunction and then when they got him, his brothers would remove the chip and yay ! Reunion.

Instead, we get angry Crosshair still offering his brothers the chance to join him with the Empire, sent Omega off to safety and when he realized that would not happen he was left behind again. This guy has been chasing his brothers and tried to reunite with them, he killed his own squad, minus one with his old trick with the reflector disks ( did you see he carried them again after they killed off the training droids? ) and he did what he could to safe his family, including Omega and AZI! Again still showing so many signs of still having the chip and also being so very torn and hurt.

If they do not use this all and have him completely redeemed soon in Season 2 so that he can be reunited with the Batch, then sorry, the writing team has chosen the easy way out in writing.

Echo:

Almost nothing came from our sweet Echo in the final finale. A few words and actions and that is it. Now this is a man who has suffered more from the separatists ( now Empire ) then any of them and he KNOWS how it feels to be used and abused for the skills you posses. Yet this man has been shoved to the side and made into someone you can make fun of because he is "more droid then man ' . He would have been the perfect man to bond with Crosshair and help him see things for what they truly are and how he can get passed all that. But no, keep the one man who could do such things as a form of comic relief and handy tool.

Wrecker:

Seriously?????? Blaming Crosshair for not searching them out? He had his kriffing chip Activated! He knows damn well what that does to you and how you react to it. Hell, Crosshair said the Soldiers follow orders line again! Sure it missed the Good, but he probably thinks he is not as good because he lost his gamble there, but still! He grabbed for his head and all his actions were that of someone with an active chip and Wrecker does not even consider that? Wrecker would be the one to bond over the activated chip and the guilt that came from it! but noooo, he just blames Crosshair and that is it. Again.... lazy writing!

Tech:

He has been the most objective in things and has explained how Crosshair has always been Crosshair. That he understands him but does not have to agree with everything he says or does. The thing that is missed here? Simply his deductions on how despite his claim of removal, there are too many signs of the chip still being there and even if the chip was removed, Crosshair seems to be brainwashed and has been going through hell, not even counting his injuries! Again, better writing then most of the other members, still missed opportunities!

Hunter:

The leader that seems to be made to only focus on one thing: Omega. Somehow he is the one to be shown as the Dad and the leader who leads only to what he deems most important. Sure he is making difficult decisions and he has some nice speeches and what not, but there is still a lot lacking here and a lot missing. He was shown searching for the scar, yet no comments what so ever on them. He decided to take the unconscious Crosshair with them and then gave him the choice to join them again. But seriously, did he think it was all just easily done once they got out of the water and he had his little speech about betrayal? With his heightened senses and leadership skills, he should have been the one to tell the others not to antagonize each other until they left Kamino and gone into safety. He could have offered Crosshair a ride off of Kamino and then work on keeping their brother safe and with them. Oh and did he really not think about AZI? The droid that was with Omega from before they were all created and who is a Medical Droid? The Droid that could have information about the chip and about Crosshair? Again, more then enough potential but the writing seemed to focus only on Dad Hunter and not Leader and Brother Hunter.

Omega:

Omega has been the most consistent in the entire season. A child that has left the only home she has known. the kid that has found her family and wants to keep them all together while they travel and adventure and try to carve out a living together. I expect to hear more about her creation and what she knows about Nala Se and the plans in season 2 and to see more of her and AZI working together as the medics of the group.

I expect to see more from AZI when it is powered up and that , unless the memory banks are wiped, we will hear more about Crosshair and possibly other clones that made it out and that are on the run for the Empire.

Oh and when they all pulled guns at Crosshair? That was the point he probably thought, F*** it, you do not even trust me when i work with you. None of them seem to think he is under the chips influence, they just take his word on it that it is removed and that is it. Especially for Hunter, Tech and Wrecker to not even give him the benefit of the doubt and just judge him there and then? They know him better then that !

To me the writing team will have to seriously work out the deeper layers here and actually make it a better story for them all. The redemption through death is far too easy as an escape from the story for Crosshair or any of the others in TBB and for Crosshair to end up being a true villain? Far too easy as well and too lazy.

I know this was a long rant, but i had to let it out!

I have spoken.....@loth-wolffe@hellothere-generalangsty@nahoney22@moonstrider9904@uponrightful@cyroku@catbustours@chaoticvampirejedi

[em-kgm]

Bad Batch opinions, so spoilers below!

So what really stood out to me about this episode was seeing Order 66 from a new perspective.  We’re so used to seeing is from the perspective of people whose whole lives are directly changed by it.  We know it as a tragic, world ending event.  But for so many other people, it was just a kind of confusing blip in the war, and then the Republic was the Empire before anyone could do anything about it.  That’s what we got to see yesterday.  For the Bad Batch, it was just something really weird that happened on the mission, and then they got back in the ship, went home, and went back to work.  It was super unsettling to see lives just go back to normal, knowing as an audience how many people were just murdered.  It was terrible, but it was a great choice.

I loved the opening with Kanan (although I was freaked out to hear his full grown man voice lmao.  It was fine when he was scared or shouting but the rest of the time it was so disorienting.)  Aaaand all of his issues in the Rebels era make extra sense now.  I was just happy to see him, overall, I love him dearly, and it was a really good setup for the story as a whole.  Also, visually, the scene on the cliffside was really compelling.  Gorgeous composition and lighting, I was wowed.

The visuals overall were really really stunning.  The lighting, the texture, and action, the shot composition, all of it.  So good.

As for complaints, I think they leaned into ‘Wrecker is dumb’ jokes a little too heavily.  I think they started to show a little bit more variety in his character towards the very end of the episode, but I sincerely hope he’s there for more than yelling and not understanding what’s going on.  All of the archetypes were pretty strong in this episode, often a little too much so, but I hope that’s just a first episode thing and the characters will get more nuanced as we go on.

And of course, I’m sure you’ve probably heard it at this point but if you haven’t, there’s also the problem with whitewashing the clone models, which was already a problem in TCW, but was worse in TBB.  They really don’t look like Temuera Morrison at all, both in skin color and facial structure.  I can overlook it in a case like Crosshair’s, where his face shape is extremely stylized, but for characters like Echo, Hunter, and Tech, there’s no real reason for them to look like white guys when their original model wasn’t a white guy.  I get that the creators wanted them to look different from the other clones, but there are plenty of other, better ways to make them visually distinguishable.  But on a more positive note, you can check out some of the Batch’s redesigns from really cool artists like @nibeul and @ollovae3 !  Go give them love their art is awesome.

I’ve heard a few people say they don’t like villain Crosshair and honestly, I couldn’t disagree more.  Like full respect to that opinion but I am so excited for villain Crosshair, both in a superficial sense because I like sniper villains, but also in a deeper, character and plot sense, I’m really pleased with the decision.  Especially because it’s not just because Crosshair was being a jerk, it was genuinely out of his control.  I’m excited to see the Batch struggle with losing a friend, especially with them assuming it was his choice and not the chip.  But I’m more excited to see Crosshair’s perspective, and I really desperately hope they go into it.  What he’s going through right now is truly terrible, and they absolutely need to show us the emotional and mental fallout on his end.  I really hope they do, even if it’s only later in the show.  I really really hope we get to see that.

Also, I LOVED Tech in this episode.  After a year of seeing fan content that made Tech out to be the ‘sweet little smart baby UwU’ of the batch, it was such a gift to see him how he actually is.  I loved his self assurance, his irritability, his quips and commentary, all the things that make him a very real person, and also the fact that he is an absolute beast in combat?  The man’s a force of nature.  He just runs around putting bombs on people, he rode a firing droid into battle, he is unstoppable.  I love him.  Again, like Wrecker, I’d like to see some nuance in his character, but it’s only the first episode, there’s time for that.

On that note, combat is one of my favorite parts of animated media, and dear Lord that COMBAT.  I think the training room sequence was obviously the best example, and just, *chef’s kiss*.  It was well paced, well shot, and creative.  I’m still reeling from the moment that Crosshair shot the knife into the droid’s head.  Spectacular in every sense.  Good crap.

And finally, on Omega, I just love her and am excited to see more of her.  I can feel the found family trope brewing here and I cannot wait.

An y w ay s those are my opinions that nobody asked for, I really enjoyed the episode and can’t wait to see more, all in all I’m just pleased to have a new Star Wars installment :)

[clonehub]

TBB timeline drives me up the wall, although I will say that one of the story boarders (?) for TBB released a link to some of the story boards and doodles they did, and that site had a video of some cut reels, where Tech says Omega is about 10 years old. I can't get the video now since its password locked and im not a hacker, so yall are gonna have to take my word for it. it was all over tcw/tbb twitter before the vid got password locked.

But even then, if Omega's ten, then the bad batch are all less than ten years old--way less. In order for her to remember them being created, she'd have to have been 4 or 5 years old, like you said. And here they are, so grown they look like they're older than even Rex.

Omega being 6 or 7 came from a Star Wars Kids' TV spot type thing where the narrator says Omega plays with kids her own age (Jek and Shaeeah) who are 6 and 7, respectively. The thing about Omega tho is that she doesn't have the temperament or behaviors/mannerisms of a child that young. When I first saw her, I defs thought she was 10. I've worked with kids from 3 to 10 years old. She looks and acts ten, not 6 or 7 😭

This inadvertently adds to the Sue-ness of TBB. They've been here for way shorter than basically the rest of the GAR, they've been growing at a rate that would actually make it difficult to get any real training in them, yet they've managed to a) do that training, and b) become the best soldiers in the GAR. they found the time to successfully complete more than a dozen missions. Like what.

Something else about TBB has been making me itch, and this is something @ficsnooneaskedfor drew my attention to.

Omega is apparently 6 or 7 years old??? She is supposedly 6 or 7 and yet: 1.) was a lab assistant, 2.) witnessed TBB‘s incubation?

Even if she is about the same age as Boba, she still claims to remember when TBB’s “special genes” were created in Nala Se’s lab? If we’re going off the basics of human memory, she’d have to be at least 4-5 to have a clear memory of something like that. This would still, however, put TBB at “cadet age.”

Do they age a 3x the rate of the average man? Is that their defect? But there’s the distinct lack of “infant” incubation tubes in Nala Se’s lab. We have what look to be bacta tanks for fully-grown men, though.

Were the Kaminoans out here violating the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights? We’re they experimenting on and disfiguring fully-grown men to give them these “special genes”? Hello???

Is the reason she remembers because this happened recently-ish to TBB? Like… what is going on here? Where do you even start to make sense of this?

The oversight in her age, and thus in TBB age is yet another narrative mistake and it drives me nuts every time I remember it.

@clonehub let me know if I’m missing something here; if I left something out or am not recalling these facts correctly.

[skumringkatt]

What kind of a doctor are you?

I know this question has been debated before in the fandom, regarding John Watson, the army doctor. He has always been the reliable medical doctor in every adaption of Sherlock Holmes as well as in the original stories. In BBC`s Sherlock he is described as a doctor with great skills, and every episode throughout the entire four seasons has some scene where his profession plays a part or is at least mentioned. Yet, its always a question of talking about it, not actually showing it. Its a TELL, DON`T SHOW narrative concerning John, which ends up a bit not good, IMO !

Let`s look at the different episodes. In ASIP it all starts with John having nightmares about the war and we see various soldiers getting shot at, but at no point does this dream scenario show us John doing surgery or taking care of the wounded, which would be a typical thing for an army doctor to have nightmares about. In this episode John himself confirms that he is a good doctor when Sherlock asks - very good, in fact ! We are TOLD but not SHOWN this fact. He does a bit of medical assessment over the body of the woman in pink, but nothing extraordinary, just the cause of death and not smelling any alcohol on her, which I think Sherlock himself could have figured out. In the next episode, TBB, he fails to recognize that Sherlock had been nearly strangled just a minute ago at the house of Soo Lin. Sherlock is wheezing and his voice is choked, but John merely asks if he suddenly has a cold. Not exactly in doctor mode, I guess. In TGG he doesn`t quite get the chance to do anything doctory, but in ASIB he takes Sherlock home to sleep it off after Irene drugs him, despite not at all knowing what she had given him and what kind of reactions it could cause. A responsible doctor would take him to hospital to run a blood test at the very least and keep him in observation overnight, especially considering Sherlock`s history with drugs. After all, Sherlock was delirious and babbling. But John leaves him in his bedroom after letting Lestrade film him for laughs - not quite what I expect from a great doctor. Further, in THOB, John fails to recognize that Sherlock was displaying clear symptoms of having been influenced by some sort of drug when he is sitting pale and trembling at the inn and admitting that he is badly frightened. And in TRF John doesn`t even try to revive Sherlock after the fall, having taken his pulse he just decides the man is dead. An army surgeon who specializes in severe injuries and trauma would immidiately kick into combat doctor mode and not stop until he is physically pulled away from his patient. Of course poor John was numb with shock, but still, where are his doctor reflexes?

In the first episode of season three, TEH, we see him working at his clinic doing medical examinations on one patient and handing a prescription to another, but its all rather vague. In TSOT however, he appearantly saves two men`s lives, first the guardsman then his friend Sholto, who are both severely injured. At least that`s what we are told. Sherlock himself tells us in his best man speech that he witnessed John saving the guardsman, and praises his doctor skills, but we do not see it actually happen, apart from John calling Sherlock his nurse and asking for his scarf. The scene stops there. Later, John declares himself to be Sholto`s doctor and walks into his room, but again the scene stops there, and we are later -indirectly- told that Sholto survived (”one nearly murder”). Again: TOLD but not SHOWN !

Then there is HLW. When John finds Sherlock unconscious in Magnussen`s office, he pats his cheek to wake him and starts calling for an ambulance. Whether he gives Sherlock any first aid while waiting is not shown. But when travelling in the ambulance, he sits passively by Sherlock`s gurney telling him “we are loosing you” but otherwise not doing anything to help in a medical way ! And later, when having his domestic with Mary in 221B he fails completely to realize what a terrible condition Sherlock was in ! I know he was distracted by the shock of learning the truth about his wife, but still ! Its as if his doctor instincts and skills shut down completely under stress. And that brings us to season four !

Taking all that happened there at face value, lets look at Mary`s rather ridiculous end ! Having treated lots of gun wounds before, John can only ineffectively put his hand over her wound and try to calm her, which even Mary calls him out on: “Come on doctor, you can do better !” So it seems quite fitting when Culverton Smith asks in TLD wether John is really, actually a medical doctor! And Sherlock poses the same question when John finally gets around to asking him if he`s all right. “Malnourished, double kidney failure and frankly been off my tits for weeks ! What kind of a doctor are you?” And in TFP he seems to drop the facade entirely, calling himself a soldier instead. Yet, Mycroft insists on calling him “Doctor Watson”....

Now I do realize that some of the plot doesn`t need specifically for John to be displaying his doctor skills, like in TBB when the boys were in a hurry and there was no time for John to do anything about Sherlock`s sore, nearly strangled throat anyway. So why bother talking doctorly about it? And its much more fun seeing Sherlock tripping around his bedroom in a daze than being laid up in hospital. And the drama plays out much better when John is reeling with shock from the death of his friend than doing CPR on him in a fruitless attempt to save him. Also we do not need to witness every medical procedure John had to perform on Sholto to ensure his survival. Still, a character has to be believable. John has failed to deliver convincingly as a skilled army doctor, even the writers must have realized this on some level, else they wouldn`t have the other characters point it out. And since season four has already questioned the motives and background of some of the characters - mrs. Hudson hinting that she is not what she seems and asking if Molly is the right person to be assessing people`s health to which John replies: “I don`t know, yeah I don`t know anything anymore!” and Mycroft not being quite the Ice Man after all, while Sherlock has to reconsider everything he thought he knew about himself and his past, it seems a good place to ask: Is John actually what he claims to be? Or is it all just smoke and mirrors, and wool over our eyes? Or maybe he is just - in the end - being human ?

[rishi-eel]

me in feb of last year after watching tbb story reels for the first time: wow that was fun :) too bad the clone wars got cancelled, these episodes would have looked great with full graphics :(

me now:

[clonehub]

@rishi-eel made a post about the differences btw the S7 and story reel arcs for tcw, and they point out how the dialogue was rewritten more or less because they needed to boost the characters for their new series. During the reels, they weren't intended to get their own show, but by S7 they were.

And another person pointed out (or maybe I wrote it here idr) that the S7 arc was a pilot for TBB. Sitting here four episodes into the series, seeing how things are running, how the galaxy is set up, I can almost feel the disjointed/not fully fleshed out way this was written. Almost like the story is there, but underdeveloped. Underbaked. I don't know the timeline between the reels and the actual arc release, but if there was only a year or so between the finale and the the premiere this year, then that means that the series wasnt in development that long (duh) but in a "we didn't have a lot of time to really flesh out the story" way, not "the animation is rushed" way (it clearly isn't and it's v nice animation)

Because even with the way tbb is designed, they were definitely meant to be a notable but very short point in the overall arc of tcw. They're too noticeable and too cliche/tropey otherwise. Idk I'm having lots of thoughts about the story and how the episodes don't really feel connected at all now that we've hit episode number four (and I was expecting a flip between crosshair/the new death troopers and tbb like the previous ep).

[hijx-de-dathomir]

yoese

crying shame this didnt make the final episodes

[rishi-eel]

I largely agree with what you’re saying here!

I’ll have to admit though, the Bad Batch arc in TCW did convince me that the Bad Batch viewed themselves as family, but didn’t extend that familial bond to other clones. Which makes sense, they view themselves as different and are reinforcing a division that puts them apart. They don’t use brother as a generic term of endearment because they wouldn’t consider a clone they don’t know (or any clone outside their squad, really) to be a brother. This isn’t bad in itself if the point is for them to change their mind.

Like, in the Clone Cadets episode, Hevy is initially a bit antagonistic towards 99. When 99 tries to encourage Hevy by telling him that most clones pass, Hevy pats him on the head and says “not all of us, right shorty.” Hevy’s antagonism is never to make him "evil” though, it’s because being seen as defective is undesirable, and Hevy struggles with that as his squad risks being relegated to maintenance or decommissioned. Throughout all this, 99 never stops referring to Hevy and other clones as brothers, and Hevy eventually embraces him as one as well. This change in Hevy’s attitude is part of what makes this episode (which imo has a lot of faults elsewhere) so emotionally driven and interesting.

Something similar could have been done with the Bad Batch, and what’s interesting is that in the original script/story reels, the arc ends with the Bad Batch seemingly surprised when other clones cheer for them during a medal ceremony, suggesting that other clones are far more accepting than they initially thought. This questions the Bad Batch’s “reg” vs. us division and whether the rejection they felt was more imagined than actual. That’s in a context where the Bad Batch arc was meant to be one of two arcs featuring the Bad Batch in season 6 (which would have been the last season IIRC), not a pilot for characters who would go on to have their own series. And idk I am wondering if those changes have to do with the positioning of the clones as disposable antagonists in TBB opposite the titular characters. Because I definitely think the season 7 episodes put more of an emphasis on the whole “reg” thing than the original script did (with TBB going as far as validating those reservations).

Like I said, the Bad Batch in their introductory arc did feel like an actual family to me. We see Hunter enthusiastically introducing his brothers to make them sound impressive, and Wrecker and Crosshair making a game out of how many droids they can take down, etc. There are a lot of those little moments that, in my opinion, look like a peek into their familial relationship from an outside perspective. TBB series’ first episode had none of that. I wasn’t convinced that they were family, and it also failed to convince me that these characters were actually clones. I mean... they don’t react to their chips? They don’t really react to other clones killing the Jedi. It’s like... they don’t play off the circumstances around them in a way that’s credible.

The Bad Batch don’t care about the clones because the series doesn’t want you to care about the clones, because the Bad Batch are the heroes and they need an enemy to shoot at but like... that makes the Bad Batch terrible. Like the writers are unable to deal with the realism of the Bad Batch needing to protect themselves by necessity and how that’s an inherently tragic thing, because they want cool action scenes. So yeah I definitely agree with you, take the Bad Batch from TBB and put them on Umbara.... they would not care. They should if they were written in a way that made sense, but the narrative wants to distance the Bad Batch from the clones while also claiming that these characters are clones.

Do you still love Echo?

Oh of course I still love Echo! My enjoyment and interpretation of the character is based on TCW and not TBB.

I didn’t like the direction Rebels took writing clone characters, so I haven’t watched Rebels. Similarly, I think I simply won’t watch TBB (I did see the first episode - not through D*sney+ though, I cancelled my subscription for that a few months ago so that I would not be supporting the company at all by the time the series came out - and it was pretty much as bad as I was afraid it would be). The difference between Rebels and TBB though is that Rebels is a piece of “good Star Wars media” that has some lore/characterization I personally dislike, while TBB is straight up harmful. TBB has a huge whitewashing problem, something it inherits from TCW. This issue goes deeper than just the models though, it affects the way the characters are written and the subtext that’s created around them.

Conceptually, Clone Force 99 had a lot of interesting things going on with it. They are clones who don’t look like clones, their defectiveness is simultaneously a source of shame (being a “bad batcher”) and prestige (their access to commando status is granted based on their mutations), etc. They are clones, but they connect strangely to clone culture and identity. The show does not seem intent on exploring this relationship though, because (and this is going to sound strange) it’s as if the narrative doesn’t really want to treat them as clone characters. It’s as if the writing and creative team liked the idea of the clones, but not the clones themselves. Sure, we had some great arcs and characterizations before in TCW, but that was when the strengths and humanity of the clones could make the Jedi and Republic look good. 

It’s like... the clones, who are characters of colour, are treated as props. Now that there’s a “clone show” the spotlight is given to characters who are white, or that the writers/creators/etc can conceptualize as being white characters. The clones are still used as props, but now that they’re no longer propping the Jedi/Republic, they have lost their kindness and complexity. They’re shallow and antagonistic, as an extension of the Empire and serve as an opponent for the Bad Batch (and, potentially, as victims who require their saving).  

So yeah I do love Echo, I don’t think I would be sticking around (and, by doing so, being vocal about TBB) if I didn’t still deeply love his and other characters. I hate what TBB series is doing though.