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Figuring Out Lonnie’s Whole Deal

(Or, assembling a timeline of pre-show events inspired by a culmination of theories centering around one Lonnie Byers)

After spending much time deliberating and theorizing, I’ve come to what I believe is a solid timeline of events relating to Lonnie Byers grounded in evidence from the show.

Now I don’t have all of the pieces, but also if I had all of the pieces then I wouldn’t need to be theorizing in the first place. Still, I’m fairly confident in my assessment. Maybe it would be wise of me to wait for The First Shadow to come out to give me more information, but for all intents and purposes of this I will only be looking at evidence within the text of the show. So no cast or crew comments, no supplemental materials, and as much as I love it, no speculation regarding TFS. Still, I think the show has enough evidence to support my assertion.

Things to establish:

A lot of what I’m about to talk about comes from a basis of these three things—

1. Will and El’s storylines mirror each other, which I charted out here. Their stories share a lot of differences, and a lot of similarities.

2. Powers are being used in this show to explore themes of sexuality through a sci-fi/supernatural lens. I talk about this in length here, but tl;dr El’s powers are used to explore the exploitation and reclamation of female sexuality, and Will’s powers are being used to show the demonization and repression of homosexuality.

3. Oh yeah, and Will has powers, by the way.

Surface Level Information We Are Given About Lonnie Byers:

It might be best to have a refresher of what we know about Lonnie Byers. Most of this comes from season one and all of it is displayed directly to the audience—

Lonnie is the absentee father of Jonathan and Will and ex-husband of Joyce

He left his family at an unspecified date that led Jonathan and Will to build Castle Byers the night of

He currently lives in Indianapolis

He used to call Will homophobic slurs

Joyce once argued with him about not showing up to a visitation with Will

Jonathan and Joyce do not speak of him fondly. Will’s feelings are unclear but seem positive “It’s fun to go with him sometimes”

Expressed interest in wanting to see Jonathan more

Referred to Joyce as “babe” despite being apart and having another girlfriend

Did not take Joyce’s calls to his house

Doubted Joyce, took down her Christmas lights and tried to repair the hole in the wall

Has unspecified debts

Likes to fix cars

Doesn’t like cops

Tried to use his “dead” son for lawsuit money

Was kicked out by Joyce and hasn’t been seen on screen since

Things to glean from just below the surface:

The following are things that are not stated directly, but can be easily inferred from clues given in show—

Lonnie is likely an alcoholic, shown through an abundance of beer bottles littering his house. Even if he splits it between him and his tiny girlfriend, it’s still an absurd amount of beer for two people. It’s possible he may have other addictions as well.

Lonnie was likely physically abusive towards Jonathan given his “You’ve gotten stronger” comment in the house. It’s possible that the extent of his abuse could stretch far beyond that for both Jon and Will.

Will likely used to hide from his dad. Jonathan and Will built Castle Byers the night he left, which Jonathan remarks that Will likes to hide in. Not to mention the “he’s good at hiding” comment.

The rest of this post is going to be much more speculative, but it’s all speculation that is grounded in what we see on and just below the surface.

Theory #1) Lonnie was involved with MK-ULTRA

This was an idea that I tossed around a while ago, that after spending time with and finding new evidence I’ve now grown more confident in.

Most of this confidence comes from this conversation between Becky and Jopper. Becky tells Hop that him and Terry would have gotten along, as Terry didn’t like authority or the government— “The Man , with a big capital M.” (which is ironic given Hopper is a cop)

When discussing who was involved with MK-ULTRA, Becky mentions “people like [Terry]”

So people like Terry, who maybe don’t like authority as was just mentioned?

It seems as though the Byers have always been down on their luck in terms of finance. Would it be hard to believe that, especially given the close proximity of the lab to the Byers house and Lonnie's willingness to get money in the show, Lonnie might have partaken in a paid study in the past? ("You were in it for the money!")

Above I mentioned the implication that Lonnie is an alcoholic. If he was involved with a study involving hard drugs, could he have developed addiction problems through the program? Furthermore, wouldn't it also make sense for Lonnie to gain a mistrust of authority after being taken advantage of by the government?

In my initial post about it I discuss how this could be foreshadowed through Hopper’s past as well. Hopper was involved with something government related that required chemicals, something that ended up affecting his child.

Theory #2) Lonnie was working with the lab during season one

Another part of proving Lonnie’s MK-ULTRA involvement is his connection with the lab. Everything that I’m about to list could align perfectly with Lonnie simply just being a shitty ex and father, but everything that I’m about to list could also align perfectly with the idea that Lonnie was working with the lab against Joyce the entire season.

1) Lonnie’s fishiness with Joyce’s phone call

I’ve already made an entire post about this here but I’ll recap all of the important bits.

Right before we see Joyce call Lonnie in the first episode, we are shown the lab spying on her conversation explicitly. Joyce is then sent to voicemail, which given the ordering of scenes makes me wonder if the lab purposefully intercepted her call.

Joyce also never actually talks to Lonnie on the phone. Cynthia picks up until their call is disconnected, which could have been Cynthia but also could have been the lab interfering again.

When Jonathan confronts Lonnie about not returning Joyce’s call, he kind of shrugs off his answer.

Why the hesitancy at first, Lonnie?

Lonnie tells Jonathan that he’s talked to police, which is likely, but then adds a comment that makes me question if he talked to any Hawkins cops at all.

Why do you need to ask if Hopper is chief, if Hawkins police came to question you, Lonnie?

2) The timing of Lonnie showing up in Hawkins

Even after being told this his own son is missing, Lonnie does not show up in town until after—

Will’s “body” is found in the quarry

Joyce refuses to sign off on the fake body

Joyce actually speaks to and is able to see Will through the hole in the wall

The next time we see Joyce is when Lonnie pulls up that night at the Byers house. Here is what Lonnie does while he’s there:

Tells Joyce that Will is in her head

Tell Jonathan not to feed into Joyce’s “delusions”

Takes down the Xmas lights that Joyce was using to talk to Will

Covers the hole in the wall that Joyce saw Will through

Unsuccessfully tries to convince Joyce to use Will’s "death" for money

All of these actions align perfectly with Lonnie’s character, do you also see how it also aligns perfectly with Lonnie trying to purposefully cover up the truth?

We don’t see Joyce call Lonnie to come over and I highly doubt that Jonathan asked him to come. Granted, Lonnie was most likely notified by police of Will’s death, why not come right away? Why wait until after Joyce refuses to believe that it’s Will’s body and after she actually sees Will alive in her walls?

Remember that the lab had likely bugged her house as well, given the scene where Hop finds a bug in his cabin.

Think about the timing of when the lab decided to place Will’s body in the quarry and have it found, something that we know for a fact was their doing. This comes after Joyce had discovered the ability to talk to Will through the lights and right after the writing on the wall scene, when Joyce was coming closer to the truth.

If a lab personnel showed up at the Byers, took down the lights and hammered over the wall, that would obviously draw a lot of suspicion towards them. But if the lab could get someone on the inside to do it, perhaps an ex-spouse that can be easily manipulated with cash and already had connections to them, that wouldn’t raise an eyebrow.

That’s also where the lawsuit comes in. If the lab is paying off Lonnie and his family, they can’t just give them the a ton of cash directly, it would likely have to go through a third party under the guise of something else, like a legal suit. I’m willing to bet all my money that the suit Lonnie wanted to file on the Sattlers was just another cover from the lab.

Theory #3) Lonnie was trying to hand Will over to the lab

Another note about Terry, if Will and El are mirrors then Lonnie and Terry may possibly be mirrors, too. If Terry was desperate to get El out of the lab then maybe Lonnie was desperate to get Will into the lab. Also the difference between Terry's daughter being taken from her/Lonnie voluntarily leaving his own son.

Something we know about Lonnie Byers— he was homophobic towards Will and did not want to visit him after he had left.

Something else we know about Lonnie Byers— he likes to fix cars.

We have confirmation that Lonnie was trying to “fix” Will, at least in a less aggressive manner, by taking him to baseball games. Jonathan says explicitly, “He’s trying to force you to like normal things.” This line is so incredibly loaded, what Jonathan is saying below the surface is "He's trying to force you to like girls."

The above scene is in the same episode where Jonathan goes to Lonnie’s Indianapolis house, and we get a line from Lonnie about him fixing up a car.

Yes, Will is being compared to a car. Lonnie wants to fix him.

And remember, Will has powers, and powers are being used as a way to explore sexuality.

So given Lonnie’s connection with the lab from MK-ULTRA as expressed before, along with Lonnie’s hatred of Will and homophobia, along along with powers as a metaphor for Will's queerness, it leads me to believe that Lonnie was trying to cure Will of his powers through the lab. This would essentially be the supernatural version of gay conversion therapy.

I want to talk about the word “mistake”

This word is so potent and really sticks out because we haven’t really seen it used in this way on the show before. The writers could have had Will say “monster” to relate to El's arc, or they could have had him say “freak” which would not only relate to Eddie but is something that Will has called himself in the past. But instead they decide to give him a new word that is different from the labels other characters give themselves.

The word mistake is unique to Will.

What do you do with mistakes? You fix them.

I have a lot of fun with Will-being-a-lab-kid theories, and nothing but absolute love to those who make them, but after doing a lot of my own thinking I’ve since come to the conclusion that Will didn’t grow up in the lab at all, but Lonnie was making an unsuccessful effort to ship Will to the lab. Part of El and Will’s narrative mirroring is Will coming from a normal background while El does not.

Which isn’t to say that the lab didn’t want Will, I think they very much did. I’ve seen the take that Lonnie tried to hand Will to the lab but he didn’t display powers at the time so they wouldn’t take him. But do you really think that that would stop them from wanting him anyway, especially if the boys father was giving him to them willingly? Do you really think that Martin “you wouldn’t stop” Brenner was gonna turn down another child? That someone was willing to give to him?

So then, if Lonnie was willing to give Will to the lab and the lab was willing to take him, what was stopping them?

For starters, I’m guessing that the process involved in receiving a new test subject, especially one that wasn’t born into the lab, would take patience. They can’t just nab Will off the street. They would probably have to surveil things for a while, gain intel from Lonnie, and come up with a strategy.

A strategy that may involve falsifying an accident, a fake body, and the funneling of money via fake lawsuit?

I’m not saying that the lab was the ones behind Will’s disappearance, at least initially. I think the mothergate opening was completely unpredictable from their end and instead necessitated the plan to be accelerated due to sudden unforeseen circumstances, as well as taking advantage of Will’s presence in the Upside Down to try and take him for themselves.

So why wait until now? If they had an airtight plan, why not act sooner?

Could there have been an incident, perhaps, with the lab, which happened prior to Will’s disappearance, that may have delayed this process?

I’m willing to bet that a mass death event of majority of the test subjects and personnel from the place that Lonnie was trying to send Will to, might be enough to put the brakes on this operation, if not on delay for a few years so they can regroup.

While we’re here, I wanna talk about Will’s similarities to Henry Creel

The comparisons between Henry and Will aren’t something hidden under the layers for only die hard theorists to find, this is something that everyone and their mothers were discussing on twitter. The similarities were noticeable even from casual viewing.

Image via Reddit

We know from his monologue that Henry’s mother knew he had powers and wanted to send him away to a doctor, a doctor that we later learn was actual Papa Brenner.

If Will and Henry are similar, is it possible that their parents wanted similar things? The main difference being that Will actually did evade Dr. Brenner.

Furthermore, is it possible that Will has powers similar to One’s and that the lab could have been knowledgeable of this? If that is the case, it may stand to reason that they might be hesitant to bring in someone with similar abilities to the guy who just killed a bunch of people.

I used to think that Will and Henry had to have completely different sets of powers, and while I do think that Will may have abilities unique to himself, given how they are compared I do think that Will may have similar powers to him. In fact, we may have already seen Will display a traveling into the mind ability in season one.

Theory #3.5) Lonnie’s departure correlates with the Hawkins Lab massacre

If Lonnie was desperate to get rid of the son he hates, and then was told that there was an unexpected delay, it would make sense for him to give up and leave town.

There’s been comments from cast and crew in the past regarding when exactly Lonnie left, but it’s never been confirmed in show.

Evidence for why I think it coincides with the massacre actually comes from the shed scene.

Joyce first mentions Will’s eighth birthday, which would have been in March of 1979. The massacre was in September of 1979.

Mentioning his eighth birthday specifically places emphasis on that age. Jonathan then follows Joyce by talking about the night dad left.

We don’t get an exact timeframe or age, but the fact that this follows the story if Will’s eighth birthday does create a correlation with that age. We then switch timeframes when Mike brings up kindergarten.

Think about it, if their dad had left when Will was eight, bringing up his age again would be redundant because Joyce just mentioned it. Mike mentions kindergarten to let us know that this is a different time and age that we’re talking about.

Let’s talk about Lonnie’s debts

What exactly these debts are that Joyce brings up is never specified. And it could be anything. Maybe a loan he took out, drug or gambling debts, since nothing is stated it’s all possible. But here’s my take:

Will is Lonnie’s debt. That’s what he owes.

Remember that the exact way that Lonnie was going to pay back these debts was with Will. He is linked with this debt conversation.

It is Joyce who brings up the debt, but since she doesn’t specify there’s a reasonable doubt that she herself doesn’t know the specifics. She could know that Lonnie is indebted to someone but not know what/could have been lied to.

I’m imagining the lab giving Lonnie some kind of advanced payment for Will, with the promise that they’ll eventually have him. It would be a way for the lab to control Lonnie. He now owes them, and the lab expects to collect their debts. Despite the lab and Lonnie having similar goals, there is definitely a power imbalance.

Lonnie does want a family, just not one with Will in it

More thorough post here, but in season one we get indications in Lonnie's dialogue that he does want to be around his family, like expressing interest in seeing Jonathan more and calling Joyce "babe," which seems to contradict him living in another town, or hell even leaving his family at all.

When Joyce gets mad with Lonnie over the phone about not coming to visit, it was specifically a Will visitation day. It's seeming more and more that Lonnie's departure is centered on Will. (Which doesn't take away from any of the potential abuse he hurled at Jonathan or Joyce. He doesn't care about their interests, only his. Furthermore, I'm not placing blame onto Will for Lonnie's absence. That is all Lonnie's doing)

Am I saying that Lonnie has powers?

Well, maybe.

That is something that I’ve been wondering if Lonnie had powers, which granted is something that relied heavily on speculation regarding TFS which I said I wanted to stay away from for this post. Since I don’t have all the pieces yet, I want to consider as many options as possible.

Option A) Lonnie was born with powers, and MK-ULTRA was simply how he became acquainted with the lab/his powers were repressed and MK-ULTRA activated them

Option B) Lonnie received powers from MK-ULTRA and passed it on to Will

Option C) Lonnie was not born with powers nor received powers from MK-ULTRA but it did give him super-powered sperm

May I remind you of Lonnie's comparison to Terry from earlier in the post, and the fact that Terry herself does have powers.

I oftentimes see the theory that Joyce herself has powers, and I myself even theorized that her Aunt Darlene may have had powers. However I'm more inclined to believe that Joyce is a carrier of this gene rather than having powers herself. Most of the evidence used to suggest that she has powers comes from Joyce reacting to what Will is showing her. There's also no indication that Jonathan has any powers.

If Lonnie participated in MK-ULTRA after Jonathan was born, then it could explain why Will would have powers and not Jonathan. Moreover, having both a mother who is a carrier and a father with powers/nuked balls would likely have a higher chance of having a powered child. (That's how genetics work, right? Please forgive me if my science is wrong.)

Notes on Lonnie's character

You'll note that there are multiple times in this post where I acknowledge that I lot of Lonnie's actions are explainable because of his identity as a shitty guy, and maybe that's all this is. However, I want to explain why having this type of character is actually perfect for a reveal like this.

In order to pull off a successful reveal, you have to hide the truth while also giving enough information so it doesn't come out of nowhere. Lonnie's personality allows for the truth to be hidden in plain sight.

Let's say that Lonnie was actually an upstanding man. Jonathan and Joyce both had fond memories of him, but he left in the past for some unknown reason. Lonnie was always a great husband, but for some reason he's doubting Joyce and taking down her Christmas lights even when she asks him not to.

Do you see how that would create a huge plot hole? How season one would feel incomplete? How it would create a giant unanswered question that needs answering?

Why didn't Joyce know about any of this?

Unfortunately we are told pretty explicitly in season one as to why something like this could have been happening under Joyce's nose. We are told in the first episode that Joyce works long hours, leaving early in the morning and not coming home until later in the night. Jonathan is expected to get Will up, make breakfast, and take him to school. My guess is that Lonnie may have been in charge of such tasks when he was still home.

If Lonnie was, say, taking Will to the lab for some preliminary tests or meetings, he could have easily done this while Joyce was at work or while Jonathan was in school.

We even hear from Joyce herself that she hasn't been keeping up with Jonathan, she isn't in the know how with her sons. (This is not me calling Joyce a bad mother btw, this is definitely a symptom of capitalism rather than bad parenting.)

Why doesn't Will say anything?

If Will was being taken to the lab for appointments in the past, wouldn't he say something about it? Especially to El, who grew up in the lab?

Well, there's a chance that Will doesn't remember this.

Longer post here, but we are given a scene in season four where Will expresses not remembering something from his childhood very well.

Which I could write off as Will being too little to remember this small detail, but this is also coming from the same season where we just got an entire plot line about memories from El's past being erased. (El who, as I stated in the beginning, has a storyline that mirrors Will's)

The Final Timeline

Tl;dr, or, the timeline written out chronologically:

Lonnie marries Joyce and has Jonathan. Jonathan is born without powers

Lonnie becomes involved with MK-ULTRA sometime prior to Will's birth as a way to make money

Joyce and Lonnie have Will, who was born with powers

When Will is very young Lonnie knows that he has powers

Lonnie begins taking Will to the lab in hopes of curing him

Lonnie and the lab strike a deal that involve taking Will in exchange for money

There is a plan to take Will involving a fake accident. Lonnie will file a fake lawsuit in order to exchange the money and avoid suspicion

The Hawkins Lab massacre happens and the plan is delayed

Lonnie leaves

Mothergate is opened by El and Will is taken

Upon realizing that Will is in the Upside Down, the plan moves forward with Lonnie in on it

Things don't go as expected and Joyce is on to Will being alive, so the lab asks Lonnie to come home in order to help with coverup

Joyce is infuriated about the lawsuit and kicks Lonnie out

The rest of the season follows as we see on screen and the labs plan unravels, some of the personnel is killed by El and the demogorgon in the school

[sharffffff]

Joel punched the side of his helter skelter out of exasperation. He had just failed his task, task he was so happy about, a chance to get back at Scott - and the only reason he failed it was his own blumming stupidity. How is it he’s the only one that forgets to put two minecarts above the door instead of one? How come blumming Scott knew it was him from just that one small mistake?

He even hired all the reds - well, not himself, Jimmy hired Martyn for him - to help him with this Scott problem, and even though he has failed, he wasn’t going to tell any of them that that had happened. He still wanted Scott to be hurt, he still wanted to be the cause of that, as a revenge for countless deaths in the past. Joel even gave Jim a Power 3 bow, just to make it so much better.

As he tried to calm himself down with nice thoughts of turning red and murdering Scott on the spot, he tripped, spilling his entire water bucket all over his crops, ruining his day even further. Everything that was able to go wrong, was going wrong.

“Can this day get ANY BLUMMING WORSE?!” Joel shouts at nothing, at the sky, but most of all, at himself. And is if to receive the answer, he heard the loud explosion in the distance. He was almost ready to ignore it as some failed trap, but something catches him. The sense of familiarity. He has heard explosions like this before. Yes, not too many times, he was pretty early to be out far too often, but this sound has still ingrained itself in his memory.

“No, nononono, don’t be Jim, I can’t lose Jim yet,” Joel pulls out his player list, and breathes out the sigh of relief, still seeing Jimmy’s name on the list. Maybe now that he has survived a bit longer Jim will stop believing in that nonsense about canary curse. But who has died then? As he reads through the list, a realization sinks in, and he lets out a deep, guttural scream. This day kept getting worse.

He rushed to spawn, hoping that someone would know something about what happened to Lizzie. How could she die? HOW COULD SHE DIE? He arrived to see Scott explaining that Lizzie brought him to the End to try and push him off the edge, but accidentally looked at the enderman and was the one to be pushed off instead.

Joel stops for a moment, trying to catch his breath as it eludes him, trying to calm his heart. Lizzie died… trying to kill Scott? Trying to do what he, Joel, asked her to do? Did he just send her to her death in hopes that she would help him finish his task? Did him not telling her he failed it kill her? Joel couldn’t breathe. Why couldn’t he breathe?

Then he glanced at Scott, looking so smug, telling everyone about how he took a few hits from Lizzie’s axe but got away from the corner. How Lizzie looked at an enderman while trying to look at him. How that enderman killed her. How looking at Scott killed her. How Scott killed her.

Joel could breathe again, but not because he was calm, oh no. His vision went red, how it usually only does when you, well, turn red, and his breaths were still short and heavy, and he was fueled with rage. It wasn’t Joel who sent Lizzie to her death. It was Scott who killed her, it was Scott who sicced the enderman on her, it was his fault, it was entirely his fault.

And even though he could not do anything about it right now, the second he turns red, Scott will be gone, rules be damned. But even the rules of following the tasks instead of just attacking wouldn’t be able to stop Joel from ending Scott’s series. Scott was going to die from Joel’s hand, it was only a matter of time.

Now, though, the only thing Joel could hope for was that this day wouldn’t get any worse.

[secret-task-tracker]

Session 4

!!Spoilers Below!!

Grian:

"Bait a yellow into believing your task is "Singing everything you say""

Status: Achieved

Joel:

"Say a line/lyric from 'all star' by Smash mouth in 4 different conversations, it can not be the same lyric/line and you must not be called out on it."

Status: Achieved

Scott:

"???"

Status: First task was Rerolled immediately

"@/musicalscientist7148 Figure out someone's task and complete it. You can show them this task once you think you have done it and get them to confirm success."

Status: Achieved

BigB:

"Compliment people whenever you see them take damage"

Status: Achieved

Etho:

"@/chris5522ty Ask someone what they think a good task would be, their response is your task for this session. If they don't give you an idea, you can ask someone else."

Which ended up being from Martyn: "Make up a fake moment and convince three people that its from a past season"

Which then ended up as: "Take one of the memes and convince someone it was your task" (?????? no I don't know either)

Status: "Uuuh Ee- ohh Achieved, I guess" - Martyn

Bdubs:

"You declared yourself incorrectly successful last session, you must re-roll for a hard as punishment."

Status: Rerolled

"Kill the ender dragon"

Status: Achieved

Pearl:

"@/Minijimi25 You are impulseSV's butler for the whole session. Do whatever they say. You have to let them in on this secret, but no one else."

Status: Achieved

Martyn:

""Snitch" on a green name by telling a yellow that they are doing a task that they really aren't. You only succeed if the yellow guesses their task incorrectly."

Status: Achieved

Scar:

"Do the opposite of what people tell you to do."

Status: Failed

Impulse:

"You can't kill anything this session"

Status: Achieved

Tango:

"@hay-the-day Be actively involved in 3 conversations with Mumbo. Mimic all his movements without being called out on it. You fail if someone points it out even once."

Status: Achieved

Cleo:

"@/Goomer82 Leave your book in other peoples bases and get someone to read it, exposing this task. Them reading this will be a success, not fail."

Status: Achieved

Timmy:

"Get at least 2 other players to participate in a minigame. One of them must take damage."

Status: Achieved

Skizz:

"Get a yellow to accuse you of a task. Whatever they say is now your real task. They would have to guess the wording of this book to succeed in exposing the task."

Status: Failed

Gem:

"Nothing you say to another player can be true for the whole session."

Status: Failed

Mumbo:

"You are now terrified of 1 on 1 conversations. If you are in a conversation with just 1 person. you must flee in active terror."

Status: Achieved which is... not at all a surprise.

Lizzie:

"Connect your base to everyone else's base."

Status: Achieved

If I made any mistakes tell me please k thanks byeeeeee