#tales of arcadia rise of the titans

[what-if-toa-rott]

Trollhunters Rise of the Titans: WHAT IF [fandom project]

It's here!!! Enjoy!!!

[theographos]

Why Aliens feels off in Tales of Arcadia

Don't get me wrong, I really like Aja, Krel and Varvatos. I even think that 3Below was quite good, even if i'm not a sci-fi fan at all (i even managed to fall asleep in front of every Star Wars ever, and not with any other movie). But good doesn't mean good in terms of storytelling. Because after all 3Below is set in the Tales of Arcadia franchise, and let's just say they don't 100% fit in it.

So why is that ?

1. Trollhunters is based on a book, and the book doesn't contain any aliens.

Well from what I have researched the book doesn't contain any trace of wizards too. I will also add that I haven't read the original book, I just made some researches about its content on the internet.

For those who don't know, Trollhunters : Tales of Arcadia is a loose adaptation of a book written by Guillermo Del Toro and Daniel Kraus, called Trollhunters. It's an adaptation similar to How to Train Your Dragon : The characters are present, the surnatural/fantasy aspect of the book is also present but everything else is changed. I even saw that Steve dies in the book, so glad they didn't take that route.

And i'm not part of the people who screams and cry everytime there is any changes from a book to a movie, To be deeply honest with you all I studied Cinema and English litterature in highschool and my final projet for those two subjects was to talk about how some changes in book adaptations are a good idea.

But it just shows that writer did not have any basic material for it. They had to create it all from scraps, and I feel like the first season of Trollhunters was already out when they thought of aliens, so they decided to connect it howerver they could. Which leads us to our second point.

2. Aliens don't really have any deep connections with humans, trolls or wizards.

Wizards and trolls fought against Gumm gumms, wizards have created many magical relics that Trolls uses, and as we saw with Hisirdoux wizards have an habit of dealing with trolls species. The interactions are already present, they have a deep history between them, shares problems and common knowledge.

Aliens apparently shook hands long time ago on Earth and were gone for the rest of the time, so except an old memory forgotten by almost everyone, they don't really have a pre existing history tying them to the different races in the story.

Trolls and wizards are based on things we already know off. I mean we have countless myths and legends about them already, but there is a bit more to that.

Horseshoe are items to uncover if someone is a changeling, trolls love to eat socks, which ties into the forever myth of "why am I always missing a sock", you think that racoons made your trashcan fall but it could have been gobelins, is that a black cat or just a small dragon etc. You really have the aspect that you interact with the "underworld" on a day to day basis without being actually aware of, and that goes deeper than just "oh this random person is just a troll in disguise".

Aliens don't really have that, like no one except the army used alien technology before 3Below, and still it was in secret so we can't really copy that to our everyday life as easily as the previous examples that I made.

Earth is about Trolls, humans, demi-gods and wizards. And it also happened to have aliens once in a while, but nothing much about it. And that leads us to our last point.

3. The plot has no space for Aliens.

Since the whole story is about earth and the fate of earth, we don't really have space for Aliens in the plot (no puns intended). We can literally see that with the 3Below plot : gumm gumms are something completly unrelated to the plot, it just happens in the back while the main plot is happening. 3Below is more of a spin-off or a "What If?" kind of show than a continuation of the main plot.

3Below is an interlude, an easter egg for the fans. You barely see the main cast, the main cast barely acknowledge the presence of the trio in their own show.

See I wouldn't be criticizing it if it was considered as such in the franchise. A side-story that doesn't impact the plot, but for fan service it will appear in the final movie so that everyone has their conclusion.

But it's not the case, it is seen as an important part of the story by the studio. It has never been advertised as something else than an active part of Tales of Arcadia.

If they truly wanted something about aliens, it should have been as a side story, a spin off.

But as a major part of the franchise, it doesn't deserve its spot and you can feel it.

[gh99st]

One of the things about trollhunters rise of the titans (spoilers) is that it isn't even subtle about foreshadowing tobys death

Any time Jim and toby speak I feel like it ends with the "always have been, always will be" line

They have never said that at all in the whole show ever, maybe once, maybe. And it's out of place, there is no need for it in any conversation and its a huge tip that something big was gonna happen

It's like Vinland saga (spoilers) I just knew that thors was going to die for thorfinn backstory, but that's for a whole different reason that Isnt shitty

We all know it was toby and Jim at the start, and toby has had issues about it when the claire in present danger/airhead episodes were going on but they got over it and it wasn't really mentioned, but to suddenly bring up a reassurance of their relationship in the fighting sort of aspect is wierd, it made me go 'thats strange, is something going to happen to toby' because it was only Toby it was being said to? If that makes sense

So yeah, they couldve done that alot better. Or you know, not gone down the whole 'sidekick needs a spotlight so let's fucking kill him' route.' Making when he actually died not surprising, among other things (like the other deaths)

Feel free to expand on this, but let's just not fight about rott please

[tenebrius-excellium]

800 views on #What If ToA Rott!

Guyyys I'm so happy it cracked that number!!!!

[bluheaven-adw]

From the Art of Dreamworks book

There's a few pages for each of the three series + RotT

[t1rkb]

[murky-the-phantom-thief]

I can’t believe trollhunters is my main source of interaction again, I’ve been doing this for 3 years

[thatcringewh0re]

Since everyone liked my Krel post sm here's troll jim

I love him sm

[yelling-screaming-crying]

This movie makes me wanna kms

What do you mean the entire plot of the entire franchise got retconned. What do you mean everybody fucking died but it got retconned. What do you mean 3 whole separate fandoms that contained 6 seasons and technically 1 movie just got fucking WIPED. What do you mean all of that was for nothing. What do you mean all of it didnt happen because of some stupid time travel bullshit. What do you mean they did weird teenage alien mpreg. What do you mean by the end of the movie Steve and Eli DONT get together. I call bullshit.

Writers please make a new movie where all of the retconning and weird teenage alien mpreg DONT happen. I would give my entire soul to you (I would also appreciate steve and eli getting together but if they don't its fine I just want them to get a happy ending and not be in an endless loop.)

[skyheachi]

Nari's new style

Grown-up Nari concept art

Art by: Yingjue Chen

(She designed Nari)

[altcissor]

And finaly have my nari and the trio lined up

[what-if-toa-rott]

1000 views Y'ALL!!!!!!!!!

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO IS STILL WATCHING!!!!

[theographos]

They all became what everyone said they couldn't be. All except Toby that is...

Once again i'm sharing my Trollhunter propaganda onto my loved ones, and by that I mean trapping them in the same room as me and forcing them to watch the show. (with consent) And this time, it's my bestie who has to go through that. And as I rewatch the show, I think about what I see and compare it to the rest of the franchise.

Jim, despite everyone and himself telling him he couldn't, became the Trollhunter in his very own way.

Claire, despite Morgana saying otherwise, became the new owner of the Shadowstaff in her very own way.

Blinky, despite Vendell and overall the whole Troll market telling him otherwise, became the mentor of a brilliant Trollhunter in his very own way.

AAARRRGGHH!!!, despite the Gumms Gumms and Queen Ursuna saying otherwise, became a fighter for the right cause and left his role as Gunmar's spawn for good. Or in other words, he learned how to be a fighter in his very own way

Toby, despite the plot telling him otherwise, became a hero fitting the common standards of heroism in medias and a hero fitting the Tales of Arcadia's standards.

But wait... Toby's character development doesn't really make sense with the rest of the main characters now, does it ?

No it has nothing to do with the fact that Toby is a "fleshbag"

So I already discussed on how the screenwriters could have given a more interesting role for Toby in another post, but I didn't deeply explained why in terms of storytelling.

First and foremost, no I do not think that Tobias would have been better if he wasn't a human, this post is more because I believe that Aliens and Toby lack "plot important" features (except for the movie) (waiting a whole franchise to give that kind of feature to a character or an important specie in your story isn't something we should acclaim). So I thought of ways to kill one bird with two stone, and give plot-interesting features to both the race and the character. Plus I think it's more interesting to think of solutions that fits the already established universe, and then think of solutions that fits my way of writing stories.

Second of all, yes the human bestfriend of a character can be wonderfully done, like in Teen Wolf for example. From the start we meet Scott McCall, the main character, and his bestfriend Stiles Stilinski. Throughout the whole show they are exposed to supernatural phenomenon, the entirety of the cast becomes linked to the supernatural world either by being hunters or by being a supernatural being. Everyone except Stiles.

And despite being human and a comic relief character, he is relevant to the plot. He is the "detective" of the group, he is always the one noticing strange things and finding a solution to the current threat they're dealing with. He is also incredibly funny, voluntarily or not, and the screenwriters take their sweet times showing how hard the plot is taking a toll on the characters through Stiles. Which means we see him having panic attacks, doubts, nightmares, etc.

And guess what ? He is the fan's favorite character ! In the last season, when Stiles's actor couldn't be more present due to an injury, it showed. You could feel the lack of Stiles in most the scenes, and the bestest parts were the scenes in which he appeared, also because they came up with an excuse to explain why Stiles isn't as much present as before.

But that excuse is so well done that when you see Stiles again, you're not only relieved to see him well, but also very interested because suddenly the plot drives forward so quickly. If you take away Stiles, the plot isn't going anywhere (because he was the one investigating most of the supernatural threats), and even the serie isn't that interesting anymore : it's less funny, less human and even.

Heck, the plot wouldn't even exist without Stiles ! In the beginning of the show Stiles takes the main character in the woods because they're looking for a dead body (dumb teenager idea)(his dad is the sheriff so it's not that weird). And in those woods, the main character ends up lost, gets bitten by a werewolf and the story starts.

So yes, a human bestfriend can be interesting in the story in an emotional point of view, he can be relevant to the plot and have an interesting dynamic within the main group.

Dreamworks isn't good with "bestfriend" characters

Trollhunters is in many ways similar to How to Train your Dragon. While Hiccup is trying to protect dragons following his own morals even if they differs from the rest of his village, Jim is trying to protect trolls following his own morals even if differs with the rules of Trollhunting. Of course both franchise have their own identity, and not everything is similar to the other. But they do share the fact that they're both animated by Dreamworks.

Yet I see one major problem that the HTTYD franchise had who's also present in ToA : The bestfriend character has nothing more than a "helping hand" kind of role. Astrid is interesting and has plot relevance, just like Claire, but they're more the love interest kind of person. Stoik, Valka and sometimes Gobber have plot relevance as Hiccup's parent figures and/or mentor, kind of like Blinky, Strickler and Barbara. I think I could compare AAARRRGGHH!!! with the dragons in some way. He has a link with the main bad guys of the show, just like the dragons (dragons and dragon hunters) he has that loveable side like the dragons and big fighting skills like them. (I'm not saying that AAARRRGGHH!!! is similar to an animal, i'm saying that his role plot-wise is similar in some ways to the role of the dragons in HTTYD)

But when we take a look at Snotlout, Ruffnut, Tuffnut and Fishlegs, even if they have distinctive character traits from one another and some sort of character development in some episodes of the shows, in terms of plot their role are basically "well the main character cannot do everything on his own, plus we need humor". Some episodes are based around them, just like for Toby, but no villains are directly linked to them, no plot points are directly linked to them. They're only in the plot because they are the friends of the one who's relevant to the story, whether it's the dragons, Hiccup or the rest of the Trollhunter team.

Toby, just like Snotlout, Ruffnut, Tuffnut and Fishlegs is a supporting character. Yes he has helped a lot but more because they needed a third hand more than because they needed his specific competences. And no Warhammer isn't what I can call a competence, since Jim's status as a trollhunter works with and without his weapon, and Claire's shadow magic has been awaken by the shadowstaff and even when it ends up being broken into pieces, she is still relevant without her weapon.

Warhammer was something that Toby wanted a lot, couldn't use, so they put a curse on it to kill two bird with one stone. The biggest competence that he had so far in Trollhunter was his dental problems. Without that, they wouldn't have meet Gladys the changeling or they wouldn't have found the Janus order. Because the rest of the time it's just luck. Luck isn't a competence, it's literally just luck.

In terms of a fighting team, Toby doesn't have a distinctive role.

Jim is the front fighter. He is the one that is going to go straight to the enemy.

Claire is the mage, even if she knows how to fight, her main feature in combat scenes is her magic.

AAARRRGGHH!!! is a tank. He is strong and big, and is able to take on bigger enemies and take a lot of damage upon him.

Blinky is a councellor, he might not be the best at fighting but he will be able to come up with a strategy based off his knowledge as an historian, and also serve as some sort of therapist and moral compass, giving back faith and the will to fight to his comrades.

I have a hard time understanding Toby's role is this team (combat-wise) other than "the helping hand". The moral compass is already occupied by Blinky, he is hardly a tank since AAARRRGGHH!!! can take upon the offensive and defensive aspects of that role. He cannot be the "troll-nerd" one who knows everything about troll culture since Claire and Blinky already take upon that role. The best I could come up with is either the one who deals with humans, even if when it happens it's always more or less accidental and he is not comfortable in those situations (or not good, like when they had to exchange the formula with Vendell's staff), or again a helping hand, a sort of plus one in case there are a lot of ennemies or everyone else has a task and that problem must be taken care of right now.

That's why I proposed that he could be a healer. Not a very good one, since that would just make the team invicible (most of the times their difficulty comes from injuries or being tired, if you have a character that can fully help those problems there is not a lot of hardships).

Truthfully I have a hard time thinking of an actual role he could have within the team. Because being the "plus one" is already the role of the Creepslayerz.

It has to fit with the serie's message

Like I said in the introduction a recurring theme for the main characters is that people around them do not believe they are fit to become what they're supposed to be or what they want to be. A some sort "against all odds they managed to become [insert role]" if you'd like.

As I have established before Tobias is more of a "helping hand" kind of role, and no one has ever kept Toby from being a helping hand other than him. (Meanwhile every other main characters in Trollhunters doubt themselves because of everyone telling them to do so.)

The only thing he has been kept from doing by other characters (especially the villain) is to be the hero. He is only a human with nothing else, he can help but he can't make a difference on his own. But if we continue to follow the story's theme, he would need to become a hero in his very own way. To claim that title and to use it in a way that is most definetly his, whether with his own competence or his own moral compass.

Toby doesn't have that, since he became trollhunter after Jim, after Jim proved that humans can be trollhunters. He would only be repeating Jim's story with some differences, but the struggles would be the exact same. Meanwhile Claire is having her very own difficulty because she has her very own role as a hero. Her struggles are similar, but not completely the same.

See, when I talked about alien!toby it was because it was easy to tell yourself that aliens might not recognize Toby as one of their own, which could create some sort of "you want to be like us but you'll never be, you're just a human/too bad at it". It's also easy to imagine Toby having trouble with that part of him, either physically or mentally. After all he always thought he was a human, learning that you're part alien is a whole pre-written identity crisis.

And yes even his sacrifice at the end of RotT doesn't really fit the story's themes. Yes Toby saved the world in his own way, but what I don't like about it is the fact that he is considered a hero because he sacrificed himself.

He is not a hero because of who he is, he is a hero because of what he has lost. This is a one time kind of heroism, because as you might guess you do not come back from the dead every so often. I am not saying that he shouldn't have sacrificed himself, i'm saying that every main character became a hero before trying to sacrifice themselves. You saw a big part of their competences before that, but like I said Toby doesn't have particular competences in the show.

It still fits the theme "don't think, become" of the show, but if we look on the plot from afar it means that Jim had to fight to become a hero, Claire had to fight to become a hero, same for AAARRRGGHH!!!, Blinky had to lead to become a hero and Toby had to die.

This is quite a horrible thought don't you think ? That the only way for one of the main character to be fully recognized as a hero in the plot is to die. It worked in some shows, especially for morally grey characters, but throughout this whole post I showed you how Toby had nothing meaningful given to him, and the only thing he always had was ripped from him.

This is not something carefully planned, it's just that they did not cared.

Nothing in the whole franchise justify the tragedy that is Tobias's character arc. Changelings became heroes, Gumm gumms can be heroes, humans too, except for Toby.

Toby is left with crumbs. No magical ancient weapon, just a warhammer that doesn't even have a story worth mentionning in the show. No cool and original duty, just the one that his bestfriend had and who decided to give it to him to make him happy. A big act of heroism, that only Jim will ever remember because this happened in another timeline.

His role as trollhunter, his warhammer, his role as "protector of arcadia" at the end of Trollhunters, even his dynamic in the group is merely a pat on the head in hopes that it will make him shut up and comply. And while some characters are beautiful tragedies, Tobias is not an intentional one. If it was one, you would have seen it coming. If it truly was meant to be a tragedy, the writers would have dropped signs, they would have portrayed it in a particular way.

Even if they lacked time in the later seasons of Trollhunters and Wizards, they had time in 3Below. They had 2 seasons to give anything to Toby, whether tragical or magical.

But they didn't, so nothing shows that they intentionally did it. I even think that they did realize what they had done at some point, and their only way to arrange things was to make him die so that he could finally be a hero.

A hero that only one character will ever remember in the show, because they couldn't even give him that glory, it had to be reaped away from him in one way or another. Because at the end of RotT, in terms of timeline, it never happened, or at least it didn't happen yet.

In conclusion to all of that, I will repeat what I have said a thousand times in this post : Toby wasn't done justice with this movie. He didn't have the ending he deserved, and his story arc in my opinion isn't really a story arc. It's more like him complying and shutting up about his situation because he was given something that looks shiny, but holds no real importance nor deep meaning (or some twisted meaning).

The writers did not want to include Toby in the plot for most of the franchise, and when they did it was in the only way they knew of : something that looks shiny and cool but is in reality just a way to shut everyone up and move on.

[themoonid]

Did I play with Nari's clothing and its design, or would I say that it evolved? I don't know but I had fun with it. Maybe I'll also do it with bellroc and skrael, a new outfit from the previous one? Maybe but for now it's an idea.

[tenebrius-excellium]

Hnnnnghhhhhh I miss #What If ToA Rott already.

The video has over 600 views on Youtube now...

And somehow, this became its own lore, its own au...

Which I cannot let go of because I want to see Douxie again.

I want to somehow watch the whole movie that I wrote????

But it's also extremely unhealthy the way I'm holding on to this.

It's just... I go off at the potential of potential.

And there was so much potential in the ToA movie.

And also in the people that I made this with.

I would have loved to do something else with some of them, even though it turns out that I am bad at teamwork for an idea that was mine first. I locked into it and was terrible at sharing it. Had we written Goncharov together, it might have turned out differently.

Blender sits on my mind constantly because of Blue. NEED TO LEARN it because it looks infinitely better than Minecraft.

I'm obsessed with the police chase preceding the café scene because of Prism.

I would LOVE to have worked more with Tempest.

I'm trying to make a goodbye post for myself haha

[bluheaven-adw]

Everyone could have had it all. Claire's magic was meant to make him a new type of changeling that did not have/need a familiar...