#sxsg critical

[sage-nebula]

Finished Shadow Generations. Honestly, I didn't like it much and if it wasn't for the fact that it came with Sonic Generations, I would regret buying it. There wasn't enough story / character content for me to feel invested at any point—you have to go out of your way to keep talking to characters after each level or else there's basically nothing—and just like in the Dark Beginnings animations, Maria was there essentially to be Shadow's emotional support, which I dislike. I feel like it was a waste to have her there, when we didn't get to see more dimensions from her. She's the same paragon she always was, and it sucks.

I also just didn't have fun controlling Shadow. For some reason, he controls so loosely that it was difficult to steer him where he needed to go. This was especially true for the manta ray surfing; Metal Overlord killed me five billion times because of how poorly that handled. (Though that in turn made it hilarious how quickly Mephiles went down lmao.) It sucks, because I loved playing as Shadow in SA2, but 🤷‍♀️ his doom gimmicks were just not fun with how out of control they were. The amount of stupid deaths I had because his flight mode clipped through barriers in the last level is insane.

Anyway, I have a feeling that if I cared more about Shadow, I might have enjoyed this as much as others. But I'm past the point in my life where I find his edgy shtick cool, and again, I don't like how Maria was his emotional support instead of the other way around.

At least Sonic Generations is here, though. I do like Sonic Generations.

[seangardnerxiv]

Shadow and Maria's Complex Relationship

FOR DISCLOSURE: this thread is going to be discussing the complexities of Shadow and Maria’s relationship based on many different factors. Though I will be including the romantic interpretation (NOT a sexual one – I do not support nor condone sexualizing these two, nor any of the characters in Sonic, as they are almost all minors) as a potential, I will not be arguing to assign a definite label to their relationship – I will, in fact, be doing exactly the opposite (I am also not interested in engaging in shipping discourse over Sonic the Hedgehog characters). I would simply like to disclose that that will be discussed in case the topic upsets you and you would prefer to stop reading now. I accept this post may not be received well by some.

SPOILERS FOR SONIC X SHADOW GENERATIONS

So I've had to break out my Tumblr for this - my usual haunt is Twitter/Bluesky, but those don't really allow for longform posts. This is also a major departure from my usual FFXIV posting, so apologies to anyone who follows me for that.

Sonic x Shadow Generations recently dropped, alongside the short animations “Dark Beginnings” as well as the (non-canonical) manga “The Jet Black Hedgehog: Shadow the Hedgehog.” With it, discourse surrounding Shadow and Maria’s relationship has kicked up again, largely in two parties – that Shadow and Maria held a sibling relationship, or that Shadow and Maria held romantic feelings for one another (some people have also argued that Shadow is her uncle, or Maria is his mother, but I won’t be discussing those views). There are arguments for both drawn from a variety of sources – I will do my best to present both (if there are others I've missed, please feel free to comment and I will add them).

For siblings:

This Twitter post of artwork for Dark Beginnings has the following alt text: “Shadow and Maria reach out for one another in an infinite abyss (as long-lost siblings would) with the Moon and the Space Colony ARK in the background."

The manual for Shadow the Hedgehog (2005) describes Maria as “like a sister to Shadow.” I have also seen another screenshot of a different manual that states that Shadow as "like a brother to Maria," but I've been unable to find which manual it is.

Gerald refers to Shadow as “son” during the climax of SxSG.

For romantic:

Maria saying “I love you” in the Japanese version of SxSG uses the kanji “ai shiteru,” whilst her “I love you” in the Japanese version of the manga uses “daisuki.” Whilst it can be used for familial relations, it is apparently very uncommon for both of these to be used outside of romantic intent.

Shiro Maekawa – the original creator of Shadow and Maria – based them (or at least parts of them) off of a romance manga known as “Please Save My Earth” (with Maria sharing the Japanese voice actress for the female lead from the anime), and has frequently supported them together, often retweeting romantic art and posts of Shadow and Maria.

In a recent interview from Sega, Maria touching Shadow’s face in Dark Beginnings was equated to Beauty and the Beast.

For Tanabata – a Japanese festival celebrating the meeting of the deities Orihime and Hikoboshi, and the separation of them as lovers – Sonic Channel posted artwork of Shadow and Maria reading the story beneath the stars. Sonic Channel has also published fanart for Valentine’s Day relating to Shadow and Maria (although they publish a lot of fanart).

Before I go any further, when the topic of Shadow and Maria in a romantic lens comes up, many of the same criticisms arise that I do not believe are fairly levied – namely accusations regarding their age, species, and familial ties. I would like to address – and debunk – these three before we go any further. Keep in mind while you read these – this is not meant to convince you that their relationship was one thing over another, but only to provide validity to a subjective point of view I feel is unfairly stigmatized.

“It’s incest because Shadow is Maria’s brother/uncle(?).”

While there were notions of family stated by both Maria and Gerald, Shadow was grown in a tube with alien DNA and has zero blood relation to the Robotnik family. Whilst there are abstract labels of “like a sister” or “sibling coding” that are only ever applied in a meta sense, neither of them define their relationship in such a way within the lens of the universe. And it is not as if the topic never arises - in Shadow Generations, Maria herself likens young Abraham Tower as akin to her little brother, but she makes no such distinction with Shadow.

“Sibling coding” is ultimately a nothing statement, and unless a proper adoption is made, it does not magically turn romantic feelings towards the two involved into incest. Frames of reference are often informed by what young people are familiar with, and they sometimes lack the proper tools to acknowledge that their feelings towards each other are more complex than they first believe - to say that this is something that potentially occurred with Shadow and Maria is not outlandish, and not a concept unique to Sonic as a series.

Similar examples to this include Clive and Jill from Final Fantasy XVI (Jill is accepted into the Rosfield household and raised alongside Clive and his brother, only to later enter a romantic relationship with him as an adult), Nero and Kyrie from Devil May Cry (Nero is fostered by Kyrie's family and considers Kyrie a sister initially, only for her to become his love interest as adults) and Sidon and Yona from The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom (Sidon grows up perceiving Yona as a sister, only to realize his feelings for her are more complex later on). None of these are incestuous relationships, nor is Shadow and Maria’s were it to be romantic.

“It’s bestiality because Shadow is an animal.”

Bestiality is applicable to regular animals that do not hold human sentience of thought, as they are unable to consent to a relationship, like a dog or cat. Shadow is not this, nor are any of the anthropomorphic characters within the Sonic games - were you to change the anthropomorphic animals in Sonic into humans, basically nothing about the series' content would change. All of them are completely sound-minded beings that are essentially just people who look different. Shadow is not Maria’s pet, he is her fully sentient friend that holds the same degree of thought as she does – given that Shadow’s entire arc is about finding his purpose in life, degrading him to simply a lab animal rather than acknowledging he is a person defeats that entire arc (something the manga also touches upon).

A lot of people also cite Sonic and Elise from Sonic ‘06 (namely the scene where Elise kisses the deceased Sonic) as a reason why Shadow and Maria should not be done - while I think it’s valid if you didn’t like watching a human girl kissing Sonic the Hedgehog, I maintain that a good chunk of that disdain stemmed from two major reasons:

Elise was very poorly characterized in her game. She existed to constantly get kidnapped and be saved by Sonic, and so both the relationship and the kiss came off more like pandering than something earned.

Sonic '06 had a bizarrely realistic artstyle for the human characters, whilst all of the animal characters retained their cartoonish appearances. This clash of artstyles looked its worst when Elise kissed Sonic at the game's climax.

Maria, however, does not fall into these pitfalls. She does not exist to be purely a love interest for Shadow - she’s certainly not someone for him to save, as the entire inciting event of Shadow's character is his inability to save her when she saves him.

For a frame of reference, Shadow is more akin to an alien from Star Wars – a setting where humans also exist. It is not bestiality for a Human to hold a relationship with a Twi’lek, as both races are fully anthropomorphic and sentient. On a similar note, Beauty and the Beast is not considered bestiality either, even though the Beast bears obvious animalistic traits. Some people have also entertained the notion of Rouge and Topaz from Sonic X, even though the latter is human. This is all the same principle, and none of it is bestiality.

“It’s creepy because Maria is young.”

Shadow – while said to be ageless – is not an adult, and to imply that he is one is a fundamental misunderstanding of Shadow’s character – whilst there are many instances where he demonstrates maturity on some levels, he has shown much immaturity since his inception in Sonic Adventure 2 (his desire to destroy the world out of revenge for Maria), and his most recent storyline in Generations involves his naïve desire to change Maria and Gerald’s fates (or rather, an initial indifference to what it will bring). Not only that, but his time on the ARK was mired in confusion over the point of his existence – Maria was the one that helped him field through his confusion, and was arguably the more mature one between the two of them. We can safely say that Shadow is not an adult character, nor is he ever presented as one in the lens of the game.

As the closest thing Sonic likely has to an equal in both body and mind (Sonic holds his own immaturities similar to Shadow), he can likely be placed mentally close to his age of fifteen. This is reinforced by the leaked transcript of Sonic ‘06 that refers to Shadow as 15 (the red squared text in this image).

Maria has no canon age established in game material, but Sonic X lists her as 12. 15 and 12 is the same age gap as Sonic and Amy respectively.

In addition to that, many people have claimed that Shadow is over 50 years old, but this is only true of his chronological existence, not the time he has been conscious and aging. He spent 50 years stuck in cryosleep, and awoke exactly how he was when he was placed in there.

A similar example would be Aang and Katara from Avatar: The Last Airbender - Aang was frozen at the age of 12, and awoke 100 years later. Nobody, however, tried to claim that he was 112 years too old to kiss the 14 year old Katara, as Aang was physically and mentally still a 12 year old upon awakening - most people who watched the show were also actively rooting for these two characters to kiss, which they did at the show's finale. It's the same principle regarding Shadow - he is 50 chronologically, not 50 in mind or body.

If we’d like to really get into it, I would point out that nearly every character in the lens of Sonic is in and around Maria’s age range (according to the Sonic Channel). As stated previously, Sonic is 15. Amy is 12, Knuckles is 16, Rouge is 18, Blaze and Silver are 14, etc. Nobody bats an eye at notions of romance between any of these people (not that I’m saying they should inherently).

Romantic intent between minors is not inherently viewed as a bad thing - see the examples of Aang and Katara or Clive and Jill above, or for an in house example, consider the canonical (to Sonic X at least) relationship between the 8 year old Tails and Cosmo - yet for some reason when it comes to Shadow and Maria, a relationship is stigmatized.

To reiterate in the wake of the last point, my discussions of romantic intent ARE NOT SEXUAL IN NATURE. As I acknowledge these are minors, any notions of that are completely off the table, and I do not agree with anyone who would imply their relationship was a sexual one. I want to make that unmistakably clear.

My major takeaway from observing both the Sonic fanbase and those on Sonic Team seems to be that in western circles, Shadow and Maria as siblings is the popular perception, whilst in eastern circles, they are more commonly perceived romantically. But ultimately, Shadow and Maria’s relationship seems to have many contradictory signals that makes it hard to pinpoint a concrete definition, especially in the most recent releases – and I believe that this is fully intentional.

Shiro Maekawa has stated in DMs has stated this regarding their relationship when asked if he saw them as siblings or love interests (translated from Japanese):

“I think they have a special bond that is unique to them that doesn’t fall into either of those categories. Just my personal opinion.”

From the way that the two are written post-Sonic Adventure 2, this appears to be a sentiment that is fully carried forward – their relationship is more nuanced than a canonical label would make it. Maria was the only person who made Shadow feel loved, and Maria unquestionably loved him back. What kind of love that was is up to the viewer, especially given that Maria died when they were both young, before they even had a chance to expand upon their relationship, if that was ever on the table – not that they needed to, given that their bond seems to have transcended both labels. Maria was the only one who acknowledged Shadow as more than an experiment or a weapon, and Shadow was her rock in an environment where she was isolated away from her family and home. Maria was Shadow's person, and still remains that in death.

To disclose for me personally (in case it was not obvious), I have always interpreted their relationship as romantic - or at least having romantic implications - ever since playing Sonic Adventure 2 Battle and Shadow the Hedgehog when I was a kid. I have both a fiancé and a sibling, and the way they treat each other is far more evocative of how I treat the former than the latter (especially in Dark Beginnings – I do not imagine my sibling through a shoujo filter while I wistfully think about cuddling them in a field of flowers). I do not take the awkwardly placed alt text verbiage from the Sonic Twitter account, used to fake-argue with the Wendy’s Twitter account, as gospel for anything, and I think that treating it as a damning disproval is silly. Had she lived, I believed the complex feelings they held would have been identified as romantic down the line. The relationship always just read as too intimately charged for me to perceive as siblings (it still does especially in the wake of seeing how she touches and speaks to him), even before I had a serious relationship. I think that arguing the nitty gritty over Twitter alt text and translations is silly, as all it took for me to takeaway that the relationship was still romantic was to play the game, watch the animations, and read the manga for Shadow Generations - but that's just me.

That said, I will concur that if you are weirded out by romantic notions between the two of them, that is completely understandable, and I would never argue that you should not feel what you feel for yourself. The sibling viewpoint is also wholly valid an interpretation, with or without word from a meta source. Though she had her grandfather and later Abe, she was largely alone on the ARK away from a family that she clearly loved and missed, and it’s not unusual to presume that Shadow filled in the role of a brother for her. I will also acknowledge that many things I have not mentioned - such as Shadow blushing at Maria calling him cool, or her saying "I love you" in general - are not inherently indicative of romantic intent, and can be read as fully platonic interpretations, and I find those that try to state that the romantic interpretation is the objective one just as irritating as those that state the sibling interpretation is the objective.

My intent is only to dispute the idea that romantic interpretations, and the people who hold them, deserve to be scrutinized. The pairing is completely innocent, and the treatment people have received for believing them to be romantic is obscene. Sweeping blanket statements have been made to insult all who do (some going as far as to wish death and harm upon them), all just based on subjective viewpoints held by people who see them platonically. The fact that there is so much discourse surrounding this topic, and that there is evidence enough on both ends to make an argument, means that Sega has intentionally left the relationship up to interpretation - including the romantic take.

Everyone unclutch your pearls.

But with all that said, I will reiterate that this post was not meant to convince anyone of one thing or another, but rather that both interpretations of their relationship are valid, as it is essentially a secret third thing that transcends both labels and is special only to them. Strictly defining their relationship as “siblings” or “love interests” (even as someone who perceives them romantically, I would never want that to be definitively confirmed for this reason) is deconstructing what is perhaps the most nuanced part of a series that does not always tend to be terribly nuanced, and a definition matters far less than acknowledging what Maria means to Shadow in the present – he is who he is because of her, and because of that, he is now living a life for himself. Shadow the Hedgehog (2005) ended in a way that had Shadow let Maria go, and Shadow Generations ends with him carrying her forward with him after accepting her loss. She was, and will always be, the person who loved Shadow - however you define that love is up to you.

Nothing has ever been hard confirmed by Sega, no matter how much either side wants to pretend it has been.

In summary, both points of view regarding Shadow and Maria’s relationship are simultaneously true and not true – it is a matter of interpretation according to the viewer what their feelings towards each other were, yet their relationship in the lens of what it is now after the tragedy of their existence (even before Maria died) is purposefully indefinable, and it should remain that way. Nobody should ever try to say that Shadow and Maria are definitively something - that goes for both points of view. I doubt it will, but I hope this goes towards removing the stigmas towards one of the more nuanced parts of this series, as nuance in Sonic the Hedgehog - frankly - does not come along very often, and it would be nice if that were encouraged rather than smothered.

Thank you for reading.

[big-cheesy-productions]

SXSG SPOILERS

Okay, I finished Shadow's story. And I have thoughts. Mainly:

More thoughts below:

Overall, I enjoyed it. I think as a way to catch everyone up on Shadow's story and who he is as a character, it did great. It was heavy on exposition, but it's assuming most people haven't played SAB-Heroes-STH '05. Fair enough.

It just felt short. I just wish the cutscenes were longer, and I wish there was more Maria and Gerald and Shadow. The interactions we got with Maria were very similar to what we got in Dark Beginnings. It felt more like a refresher rather than a much awaited closure, but I'll take the closure we got and the reestablishment of Shadow's character.

I think I just would have liked if the story had a few more cutscenes dealing with Shadow, Maria, and Gerald's relationships rather than them trying to figure out what was going on and Maria repeating things said in Dark Beginnings. But that's just me.

I think Dark Beginnings was so amazing and it set my expectations very high, set a specific tone, and had threads that Gens wasn't planning on continuing. I think Gens also set up threads that it dropped too though, like, you know, the whole "maybe I can save them from their fate" thing that got mentioned, forgotten, and mentioned again that was only otherwise minimally discussed in the little snippets of conversation in the over world.

Why was Big there and those two robots? There weren't any other characters relevant to Shadow that could be there? Like Abraham? Or, hell, toss Silver in since he wasn't in the original.

Gameplay wise, it was super fun. It felt very clean. I like the direction Frontiers has set for future gameplay. I think it was a little easy, but maybe that's just because I'm an adult and just played a bunch of old games that have old game jank lol.

Would have loved to see more Rouge and Omega, but I'm glad they're setting up for Team Dark to return in future installments. I'll fucking take that.

I've said it already, but the use of Radical Highway and the symbolism of it was probably my favorite part. I don't know why they had Frontiers level though??? Like, why not one from HIS GAME? Instead of one from a game he's not even in??? Odd choice. Maybe they could have done one of the flashback ARK levels? That could have given us some juicy cutscenes.

Also just want to appreciate the fact that the first time Shadow defeated Black Doom it was as Super Shadow. This time is was all Shadow, no emeralds required.

I also like the confirmation that Shadow was not meant to be a weapon originally. I don't think that's always been super clear. Doom wanted a warrior of course, but Gerald going insane was the nail in the coffin. I would have liked to see more of Shadow's feelings towards Gerald on that, though I did like when Shadow first sees Gerald up close he backs away, and almost looks a bit frightened, until he realizes this is Gerald from before the ARK incident.

I think they could have added a bit more. I think that's my overall opinion. Hopefully DLC will add a smidge more? Maybe?

I really did enjoy it. I just wanted to jot down all of my thoughts!

Edit: I don't want this to read as super critical! I think I had very specific expectations for it and I'd like to replay it without those expectations now. I really think it's great overall!

Anyway, SEGA, remaster SAB2, Heroes, STH '05, and Sonic '06 and my life is yours.

[geeky-diary]

Can I just say that as a long time Sonic fan and as someone who’s has just gotten into Critical Role, I think SXSG is very funny.

Like, I know the OG Generations released before CR started streaming (They might not have even started their first campaign at home yet) but…

The fact that both SG and SXSG has the same amount, but entirely different CR cast members is just really humorous to me. What’s even funnier was that I originally thought that there were gonna be LESS in SXSG!

(For Context: In SG, Travis Willingham was playing Knuckles and Laura Bailey was Blaze. In SXSG, Matt Mercer is Espio and Robbie Daymond is Mephiles. I thought that Matt had started as Espio before SG, but apparently I was wrong and he started after. Travis and Laura are also no longer voicing Sonic characters this making it 2-2.)

[beevean]

This is certainly a fairer take than whatever the hell is happening on Twitter :P

Funny how the Sonelise dynamic is the opposite of the Shadria dynamic: Elise has to be motivated by Sonic, not the other way around. That probably makes her feel less like the Therapist Girl lol

Personally, my biggest gripe with Maria in SXSG is that she has to spoonfeed Shadow with character development. Like. why is she the one who has to tell him that he has to let her go because she'll always live in his heart. he knows. he has agency. he arrived to the same conclusion by himself 20 years ago.

It's a shame because her NPC dialogue actually gives more insight on her life like her academic education or how she thinks Shadow's quills are cool, which leads to her teasing him that he's blushing - that is what she needs! Small details that make her feel real, while still keeping her archetype of pure innocent girl! But the in-game dialogue has a similar problem of that of Frontiers', which is that it's so, so repetitive, and that's why she comes off as being nothing more than Shadow's cheerleader.

Elise has another issue, which is that Sonic's plot in '06 is fundamentally flawed in the macrocosm of the game: he feels ancillary, and so Elise feels like an object that gets in the way of the "cool" stuff. Her arc is also much more subdued than you would expect: she doesn't learn to fight and be badass, but she does learn to be braver and let go of her queenly mask.

I have a soft spot for nice girls who make of their inner goodness their strength. Undeniably, both girls suffered from flawed writing, maybe even objectified in part: Maria is the Fridged Girl, Elise is the Damsel in Distress. I don't think there's any need to pit them against each other, because they are not functionally the same. It is possible to criticize the writing that did not give them the depth they could have had, without sounding like you think real women don't wear dresses.

tbh i think Maria and Elise both have the same problem

their characters are fine, but they weren'ts able to properly shine because of their utilizations in their stories

Maria does have more to her character then what was shown in the game, as shown in Gerald's Diary. But from the way she was utilized in sxsg, she just comes off as this generic perfect angel of a character that's just there to be Shadow's therapist when he has angst and motivate him. And ngl it got me rolling my eyes after a while

With Elise, she got kidnapped alot during the main story of Sonic 06, so it limited our screentime with her as well as her and Sonic together.

HOWEVER, I still think despite Maria and Elise's issues in their stories being similar, I still think Elise's character is able to shine through in 06 better than Maria does in sxsg.

Elise's character traits and flaws are still shown throughout the story, as well as character growth and an arc. The excecution was messy at times, but it's still there. And we're still able to see growth with her bond with Sonic, despite it's limited time onscreen. She wasn't just there to be perfect nice girl who motivates Sonic.

We saw glimpses of other sides to Maria's character, like when she talked back to Black Doom, as well as her resilience. But majority of the time she just came off as so generically nice and caring imo and it was just boring and at times groan worthy.

I don't hate Maria. I don't even think she was bad. I just wish we could've gotten more from her character in Sonic X Shadow Generations than what we ended up getting.

[beevean]

I'll do you better, then: I no longer care. I feel nothing for this series anymore. At most, I feel resentment towards everyone who took it away from me.

I'll criticize what I dislike, which attracts anons who politely tell me that I'm a miserable bitch who should shut the fuck up, and I'll praise what I like, even if others aren't happy that I'm not dispensing salt on command.

These shorts are nothing more than marketing for a game that exists solely to promote a Hollywood movie, incidentally catering to fans of my era who think Sonic 06 was the pinnacle of the series and Shadow should be the true protagonist of the series, while consolidating Flynn's chokehold on the lore despite his proven incompetence on the matter. I also think they're cute and I like the scenes with Shadow and Maria because they have nice chemistry. These are not contradictory.

I hope SXSG is a fun game regardless of its lore and the cynical reason it exists.

Unpopular opinion, but Dark Beginnings is just meh so far. I'm too sick of Flynn being everywhere to really care about it, and Shadow/Maria is getting really on the nose IMO.

Actually I welcome all the Shadria food to spite those who harass the shippers for having an "incest" ship lmaoooooo keep showing Maria lovingly stroking Shadow's chest like a good sister would surely do :P <- i don't even care about the ship but i'm cheering from the side

I'm not too bothered. I also wish Flynn got a break already, but so far the worst things he has written were including the low gravity shit and sneakily canonizing the name Abraham (although since Maria calls him "Abe" nothing stops me from imagining that actually his name is Abel lol), which at the end of the day is small fries. Unless the third part pulls something really awful, so far the characterizations are nice and consistent. Like, at this point I'm just cruising along, I'm not invested in anything related to Shadow but I'm not going to mindlessly hate. This episode was serviceable and cute :)