#swtor 6.2 spoilers

[a-master-procrastinator]

SWTOR as text posts, part 1/?

[sullustangin]

Spoiler Free SWTOR 7.5 comments

As it says on the tin.

Honestly, I am really liking the consistent content that Broadsword is putting out. Big patches are 4-6 months apart, little ones are pretty regular. Each patch -- whether it's a big 7.x or it's a 7.5.x -- has something that tries to address a player request/complaint. Since Broadsword took over, the amount of content might be more modest in terms of scale, but it seems like more care has been applied to it. Based upon the player survey and other quality of life improvements -- and even some hasty u-turns--, they are taking player feedback into account. I feel better about the game in Broadsword's hands than I did with Bioware.

Technically, I did not experience major problems with the patch. As reported in the patch notes, there is one cinematic where a key character's mouth does not move. That doesn't break the game, though you may want to wait to record the scene if you're into that. There's another point where you have to hit the right spot on the floor for your jetpack to disappear so you can pass through the next door, but that's an easy fix. Gearwise, I'm seeing reports of being at least in 332 greens, but as usual, player skill may vary.

Patch 7.5 starts the conclusion of the two storylines that have taken the mainstage of 7.0: the Holocron of Nul storyline and the Heta Kol storyline, which started back in 6.2 (pandemic patch). I feel like some of the "huh?" in the plot was baked in from where Bioware started it, so Broadsword is trying its best to finish the story they were given. Is it a busfire? Yes. Is it their fault? No, but they have to finish it.That said, this patch actually makes the player make choices, and you AGONIZE over them. It's not just personnel choices but also diplomatic ones. I haven't felt that way in a considerable amount of time. Yes, you do make choices in 7.0, but it's one person living or dying, be a jerk or don't be a jerk. Lower stakes. The stakes are higher here in 7.5 -- or at least it feels that way. That's an important part of game writing: even if the choice does not matter, there needs to be the illusion that it does -- a certain level of immersion. You do have cascading consequences of choices as well. I'm looking forward to playing this patch on my LS toon to do different choices, more so than I did previously. "Let's not be a jerk this time" is less than compelling than "Can I do it differently, this time?"

Overall, there is progress in the storyline -- this doesn't feel like a "busy work" patch or "here's a new daily area to keep you occupied". (To be clear, I loved the Port Nowhere and Ord Mantell content in 7.4 -- it was a giant love letter to smugglers -- but at the same time, it was a bit of filler, to be honest). The quests you need to do are necessary to gain the trust of a naturally fearful faction of sentients (no spoilers) -- it makes sense they aren't your besties for life right off the jump. You will yell at the screen at the end of the whole thing, because it does make sense and yet it's the worst option for your character, personally, and it's out of your hands. (And it is not out of character for the person who makes that decision...)

No new date night content -- maybe in 7.5.1. There is some romance content for those of us that romanced Lana and Theron.

If you are big into Mandos and have been impatiently waiting for Lane to give you a buzz, this is your time and your hour. If you enjoy training hunter pets in other games, your time has arrived.

There is also a new Spring Festival event on Dantooine. In truth, I find it sort of derivative of the Tillers' reputation you could earn in World of Warcraft during Mists of Pandaria. It isn't exactly the same (we don't have a cooking profession), but the general ideas apply, right down to the dailies involving having a beer and going fishing, as well as scouring the world for seeds. There's also animal rescue built in here as well, so it's a bit of everything for any hero who wants to retire or at least slow down.

But of course, something sinister is on the farm, and so I anticipate Scooby Doo Mystery Hour shall continue as the event carries on.

~~

Given that Broadsword "maintains" games such as Dark Age of Camelot, there has been the fear that they'll move SWTOR into retirement, but I don't think that will happen, as it's still a live intellectual property (Star Wars), they're making gobs of money off it due to Cartel Market, and there's still a player base. (And let's be real, Favereau and Filoni play it, and they do matter to Disney and EA.) I don't know when 8.0 will come out, so we may have another round of storylines in 7.0 -- sort of like how we had an extended 5.0 (Iokath and Traitor Arc) after Bioware was stripped down in 2017. That said, Onslaught was quite good after the KotXX shenanigans and dev changes had settled. I still hold the view that Bioware is a sinking ship, and EA moved the Goose that Lays the Golden Egg to Broadsword for safekeeping. I think we might get an 8.0 in 2025 or 2026, but how that will look or work -- no idea.

[swtorpadawan]

The Fate of the Children of the Emperor

So we see this screenshot during "Echoes of Oblivion" where Tenebrae finally gets his come-uppance. Kira's wonderful "everyone you've manipulated" line is just so perfect.

And it fits, because with the exception of Scourge, everyone in this particular shot is a documented Child of the Emperor. Most of them appear in the Jedi Consular story, though a couple are from the Jedi Knight story. (Like Suri and Tannac )

Here's the situation - Wookiepedia, which is generally a wonderful resource but is NOT a primary source - indicates that everyone in this shot besides Kira and Scourge are deceased at this point in the story. There is a certain logic to that, but its not explicit in the game.

This would mean that - regardless of your choices during the story - by the time of the events of "Echoes of Oblivion", Master Syo and all the other Children of the Emperor who may have survived the class stories are all dead.

(This would make Kira the only surviving C.O.E., but more on that another time.)

How do people feel about that? I might have liked to see Syo and some of the others survive and recover from their experiences. If we can demand it for Vaylin, surely we can demand it for the Children.

Thoughts?

[rainofaugustsith]

So in playing through Echoes and Secrets again...yes, I'm microanalyzing, but I'm so bored, I'm so tired and I've got a case of the Sads, so bear with the distraction. SPOILERS FOR SWTOR UP TO AND INCLUDING 6.3, SECRETS OF THE ENCLAVE. Point One, why were all of those spirits there? Are they living in Satele's mind? Or the Commander's? Nope. Anyone ever see the old Nightmare on Elm Street movies? Freddie's power comes in part from the fact that he literally takes the souls of those he murders. They're literally connected to him until they're finally freed. And we know from several points in the game that Vitate is also fueled by death. It's not too much of a stretch to think that the souls of all the people he's killed or possessed are bound to him and he's using their power to fuel his "recomposition." Valkorion takes between one and three people's souls in KOTET to power himself up. Scourge says that Revan's spirit will not be free until Tenebrae is dead, which backs this up. Point Two: I have said that I really think we're going to be looking at a choice between a more extremist/intolerant path or a more inclusive/peaceful/eclectic one on both sides, with Satele Shan and Darth Krovos representing the more inclusive and Gnost-Dural and Rivix/Acina/Vowrawn representing the extremists. Malgus, *cough* Syl, Arn and Rivix are the wild cards. More things I noticed this time: 1. Nobody's calling Satele "Master" or "Grandmaster" anymore. 2. Satele's students are not called padawans. 3. I've noticed before that Satele has absolutely no part in Task Force Nova, the Jedi Order or the Republic's plans. She's not up on the holo for that meeting at the end of Secrets of the Enclave and nobody's mentioning her. 4. Gnost-Dural makes zero mention of Satele and her students' ordeal with Tenebrae. Like, none. 5. Satele's students are conspicuously NOT dressed like traditional Jedi or padawans. Except - Aryn Leneer, who is snubbed in the meeting by Obnoxious Jedi Dude, is invited to work with Satele. She lets you know in a letter later on. And she more or less point blank says she doesn't want to work with the Jed and they don't seem to want her, but Satele is cool, so... To me this makes so much sense. Satele walked away from the Jedi Order entirely and has spent years dialoguing and researching all sides of the Force. She would likely want no part of Gnost-Dural's desire to annihilate the Sith or his recruitment/hunting drive to push the Jedi back into battle. The current art of SWTOR shows Satele looking...well, less Jedi-like...I almost wonder if, like Krovos vs. Rivix, we're going to see Satele's style coming into conflict with Gnost-Dural's. For instance - Satele has Force sensitive students. Who do not appear to be Jedi or back in the war effort. Gnost-Dural says point blank that he feels it's every Jedi's duty to defend the Republic in war. Is he going to try to conscript Satele's students or conflict about that? What about Arn? There's the possibility that Arn will flip to some sort of out of control Dark Sider, a la Anakin, but given his comments on Dantooine, there's also the possibility IMHO that he can find a middle ground - that he is disgusted with the Jedis' actions and ends up with Satele's group instead without going ham on everyone. Or joining the Alliance, with the same outcome. Quite honestly I'd really prefer than for Arn.

[theniveanlegacy]

I’m not crying you’re crying

[therron-shan]

just checking back in to say what am i supposed to do with this

[greyias]

Time to go Full Gravedrog

Hey guys. You know what we haven’t done in a while? That’s right! Put on our tinfoil hats, get tangled up in an entire spool of red string, and do a ridiculous deep dive on lore and make up wild insane theories about the upcoming story drop!

That’s right we’ve got some--

First up. If you haven’t watched it already, here’s the trailer for the 6.2 story drop, specifically for the storyline we’ll be doing our deep dive on, Echoes of Oblivion.

Are you pumped? I’M PUMPED. Let’s do this!

Okay, so there’s a lot to unpack here, and I’m going to state outright, that the chances of this being on the money like Gravedrog is... well. I’ve got no lottery numbers for you this time around. I can’t believe no one took me up on that offer.  There’s always the possibility the storyline has absolutely nothing to do with any previously established lore, and they create something wholly new. And hey, if that’s the case, this is just free fanfic fodder for the masses.

But Charles did mention, I believe on the forums(?), that he’s seen one person guess what’s going on. The real question is... WHO GUESSED IT. HMM.

So I’ve been wanting to actually do a post on this a while, at least since Arcann’s voice actor accidentally made the slip up about Thexan being in this story drop. A large part of this theory/discovery goes to the lovely @confettininjabean​​, who found this piece of lore when we were getting tangled up in red string back in the Gravedrog days, pre-Nathema Conspiracy. Let’s just say, there was a... certain interaction on Twitter that had us thinking this had something to do with NC, and when it didn’t pan out we were like “Oh, weird, guess that wasn’t on the right track” and forgot about it.

Well, sort of. Because we were like, “that really seemed significant considering”, but hey, sometimes you hit upon a Gravedrog, sometimes you think Indo Zal is an evil mastermind playing 4D chess. In other words, when it comes to red string theories, you win some. You lose some.

Anyway. I forget why, but I went perusing on Wookieepedia a few months ago, looking back up this sort of obscure piece of lore for some reason. And something about it was.... FAMILIAR.

The article in question: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Thought_bomb

May I direct your attention, to this part:

Hey. Where have I heard that before?

Aw. Aw shit. Well I mean, that can’t be right though, right? Because it’s Satele and a bunch of Jedi/like-minded Force users that are being possessed right? And besides this is an an ancient Sith ritual thought to be created by... 

Oh.

Oh wait.

But that’s a plague right? Not the same thing as a thought bomb. I mean it’s not like anyone in SWTOR has dealt with a Force plague--

Oh. huh. But you might say, “But Grey, that plague was invented by Terrak Morrhage, not Vitiate.” And you would be right! What I can’t seem to find confirmation of, thus far, is exactly when Terrak Morrhage lived, but by me and Jayde’s current reckoning, it seems like he may have been around possibly during the Great Hyperspace War, the end of which Vitiate used in his mad grab for immortality and power, manipulating what was probably a majority of the remaining Sith Lords into his brand spanking new ritual that he just needed a little help with.

Okay, and this is where we leave lore land, and enter into speculation land. I, um, just got sidetracked on Jedipedia (I’ll get to that), trying to find a codex entry regarding Vitiate I know I’ve read but I lost at some point. So, we’re going off memory here, but I’m fairly certain it’s stated in canon somewhere that prior to his ascension, Vitiate was obsessed with Sith alchemy and ancient Sith rituals. So if Morrhage pre-dated him, or was a peer, it’s possible Vitiate was able to learn about his plague, and adapt it to some of his other experiments.

Okay, back to the thought bomb for a moment. Full disclosure, I haven’t read the Darth Bane novels, so I’m going off of Wookiepeedia here instead of the source material (which is always a dicey affair), it says Bane adapted the thought bomb from notes on the ritual Vitiate performed. So, it’s possible the thought bomb is not a 100% Vitiate original, just a bastardization of it. But it’s interesting that the ritual itself gathers up and shreds the Force essence/soul of everyone in its path. Well, I mean, horrifying. But in this theory’s perspective, interesting in that when Vitiate used Zildrog as part of his ritual--where did all of the Force go exactly?

Because as you wander around Nathema, you hear the tortured whispers of every soul obliterated during that ritual.

This is talked about a little in the Revan novel, and it’s been a few years since I read it so I’m kind of going off memory again, but he basically created a void in the Force there. And remember... in the KOTET chapter we went to Nathema, he was actually visibly afraid a few times. Hmm... now why would that be? Was it Vaylin he was afraid of? Was it something else?

If memory serves, there wasn’t an actual explosion like as described with the thought bomb--because he wasn’t using the ritual as a weapon. He was using it to gather power, to shuffle off this mortal coil and live eternal as an annoying spirit who you just can’t quite squash out no matter how many mind mazes you build to keep him locked up. So, and again, this is speculation land, but all of that swirling Force and dead energy had to go somewhere right? I mean, Zildrog had his snack and went omnomnom, but where did the Force power go? And why was there a Void that constantly pulled at him and sapped away his power on Nathema?

Is it because the Force didn’t explode? Is it because he bound it up in his old disgusting decaying old man flesh? And the only reason he was alive because he basically made himself a little flesh horcrux that was destroyed at the exact moment we sent him off to the Void that he feared so much?

Hmm. Interesting.

Wait. Wait a second... I think there was something else he mentioned. Now, what was it?

You know, I had always assumed he was talking about Gravedrog being unleashed, since the whole reason he went to Zakuul was likely to find the Gravestone so he could pair it with Zildrog back on Nathema, and enact his galaxy-wide extinction event.

And maybe he was.

Or was he talking about his failsafe.

The one he knew would happen if someone destroyed his old, withered, icky body?

So... if the ritual/plague is some take on the thought bomb, and it infects any Force user like some prescient, who could have realized this is what 2020 held in store for us pandemic that spread rapidly and consumed everyone who touched it, until it made manifest what was once just thought...

Is the whole entire point of this to bring Valky back from the dead? Or is it just his last revenge? And what on earth would that last revenge be? Well... and just hear me out. Say there was this guy. Kind of an asshole. And he had this whole schtick about killing every single living thing in the galaxy and liked to consume whole planets in a single gulp just for funsies. Wouldn’t it be so funny if he, say, in the unlikely event he possessed some Outlander who happened to go “get out and get a job loser!” and booted him off to the beyond, and at the same time his old indentured servant and that chick he once possessed found his horcrux and destroyed that, wouldn’t it be a kick if that somehow kicked off a plague that consumed every single Force user in the entire galaxy until it had enough power and then exploded and completely wiped out all life in the galaxy, so that if the asshole who’s name totally isn’t Valkorion couldn’t live forever then neither could any. single. thing. in. the. galaxy.

I mean, that or it’s just a ploy to get him into one final boss fight.

But i dunno... I kind of just found the entire cast list of who’s in the Echoes of Oblivion storyline (warning, major spoilers and datamining on that link, and yes, that’s what distracted me on Jedipedia) and I’m kind of thinking. Having to keep the entire galaxy from being consumed by a sociopath’s final revenge kind of sounds like a pretty epic finale, don’t you?

And hey, if not. Free fanfic idea for anyone who wants it.

Oh yeah, also predicting the following:

We’re going on another mindscape adventure like in KOTET Chapter 9, but it’s Satele’s mind we’re in

It’s not actually Valkorion/Vitiate/Tenebrae, but a remnant/essence of him that’s made manifest by the ritual. Also he needs a combo nickname because I’m tired of having to pick one of three names. I shall call you Valkiatebrae. It’s a beautiful name. I know he’ll love it.

Vaylin and Thexan who we see in the trailer are probably also manifestations conjured by the quasi- Valkiatebrae

We’re going to Ossus? Or Ossus in Satele’s mind?

The Knight and crew missed a few of the death cult back in the storyline, and that’s who was either watching Tenebrae’s body, or who hijacked Satele’s ship OR they have some part in the ritual (perhaps the part to physically manifest  Valkiatebrae). We see them in the trailer above.

Regardless if any single one of these predictions is right I’m going to die of feels

Because I think Satele and Theron may have a scene together????? OMG

I’m screaming again

I’ll stop now

I’m sorry Charles I hope I didn’t do it to you again I couldn’t help myself, but hey at least I kept it in this long

EDITED TO ADD: Okay guys, I’ve been looking more at Jedipedia. I think I can safely hazard a guess that a LOT of fans of different characters are going to be super happy with this update. Just saying.

[raven-of-domain-kwaad]

Her smirk at the end. That is the face of a woman who knows she is getting laid when she gets back.

[astralflows]

Star Wars: The Old Republic || The Spirit of Vengeance

[dottiechan]

6.2 is full of Tirall & Shan family drama and I'm sooo here for that

[movedto-consularmain]

arcann’s letter post Echoes of Oblivion

[sirotras]

also is it just me or did vaylin just steal a body

[swtorpadawan]

Third time’s the charm?

[rainofaugustsith]

SWTOR: Regarding the Alliance

There was a great post by someone expressing their disagreement for returning to Imps vs. Pubs in SWTOR. I'm posting my own thoughts about it in the interest of not hijacking that person's post (they are not someone I know and I am not sure if they want discussion on their post). For me, there are two things about the Alliance that appeal. One: the Imps vs. Pubs constant struggle is fucking boring after a while. Decade after decade, century after century, millennia after millennia, they never fucking stop. They keep it going. They keep engaging in acts of genocide and human rights abuses and hatred and war and no matter who steps up to try to allay things, in the end, they. never. learn. Whatever you think of the Sith, that part in the Sith Code about peace being a lie is true, now isn't it? The Imps vs. Pubs is also cast as a very black and white struggle, very much GRRR BAD GUYS! YAY GOOD GUYS! especially in the time frame of the films. Whatever nuance, whatever the lore says about EVERY side being awful for various reasons, it gets lost. And as someone trying to enjoy the story, that's never interesting to me because it's never true. The Alliance cast a lot of things - both in the Force and in the galaxy's dynamics - into very enticing shades of grey. The so-called "good guys" (who IMHO are not actually, EVERYONE sucks in Star Wars) decided to appease the slave-holding genocidal dictators and search for superweapons. The other slave-holding genocidal dictators actually teamed up with the scrappy rebellion freedom fighters. People from both sides of the conflict acted in unexpected ways. And if you as a player found either faction or their goals frustrating, the Alliance was an oasis. Your character could explore all sides of things, work with other characters from all over the galaxy, and branch out beyond that endless hamster wheel of the Imps vs. Pubs. It doesn't work for everyone, but I feel that's the case for a lot of the expacs. I'm in the camp that feels that a lot of the expacs don't work especially well for certain classes. My bounty hunter couldn't give a rat's behind about helping the Imps fight Malgus. My smuggler would have been probably killed instantly by Revan. My Sith Inquisitor and Jedi Consular, who are both about artifacts and lore and healing and such, would have been pretty clueless on ways to handle anything on Makeb. I feel that every class except the bounty hunter and smuggler could legitimately lead the Alliance, but I'm also of the opinion that the non-Force sensitive classes, with the possible exception of the Imperial Agent, would not have lasted long against the Zakuulans. I feel that there are a lot of stories that could have been told around the galaxy without Imps vs. Pubs as the central focus. But at the end of the day a lot of players did want to return to Imps vs. Pubs, so here we are. For me, the key point now is that it should be a true choice. Some people's characters as headcanoned perhaps cannot wait to get back to the Jedi Council or the Empire. But some of us do not, and the options presented to them to remain independent, or cease to support their former faction, really are not satisfying. My Jedi in particular come to mind. None of them want to continue being Jedi. They certainly don't want to help Task Force Nova with its recruitment drive. But they also don't want to become Sith, help massacre their former allies or blow up the galaxy. My characters who have chosen to remain independent - that is all of them- do not want Daerunn or Rivix casually bringing in occupying troops while they smile and wink and promise it's not an occupation. I think perhaps even the devs realize this - perhaps they are tracking the metrics of who returned to their faction and who did not. Because it's telling to me that most of the past year's content has not focused on Imps vs. Pubs. Not the swoop races; not the feast event, not Echoes, not SOV. At this point the devs have written themselves into a most difficult corner. They thought it would be fun to make almost every

character, both companions and major NPCs, killable, leaving themselves with a massively depleted cast of recognizable characters. I was honestly stunned when nobody died in Echoes or SOV (except for that one individual the player was trying to kill) because the previous expacs have had so. much. character death. I was stunned to see killable characters getting substantial content. I'd like to think they are moving in a good direction there, but the point remains that they have a very small cast of familiar universal characters who aren't dead for anyone.

Plus, the hastily truncated KOTET, the cancellation of the planned third installment of KOTE-- story led to the traitor arc being complete bullshit, which led to...where we are now. I'm not sure how they can resolve it in a way that will satisfy players, even with all the branching stories.

[synoxshots]

Worried?

(dialogue below the cut)

🥺