#such as the whole mystery of ''what were the circumstances that led to atlas's death''

[unproduciblesmackdown]

woah... that's some premium human (kittycat?) heart in conflict with itself

(fr everyone in lackadaisy is kittycats to me lmao. going like, whoa, neat humansona ideas....)

and also fr like everyone get in on "mordecai killed atlas even though of course he didn't do it b/c he Wanted to: bet on it" if only for the fun drama of it all....it Is fun & funny to me that like, sure there's only so many major characters, and sure there's no incorrect one to point to like "wow what a delight" but i wasn't really That previously aware that mordecai is like a fan fave like omg the bad bitches (especial popularity) he pulled by being autistic :'] we just don't expect to see it lmao. like this theory should also be more popular then if even just by virtue of that premium kittycat heart in conflict with itself material it supplies. pointing at mordecai like haha he's sooo upset about all this and That Is Why He Quit, not to go investigate marigold which he's also just said he Wasn't doing until just now. we've seen the [oh grief? besot? interesting] bonus material....not that i don't think most people do imagine that of course mordecai has a good amount of emotional investment in things driving him here, but this does ramp it up which i think also works as an argument in its favor; like i'd be inherently more skeptical about any theory that required mordecai to actually care less about things lol than about any that gives him more personal emotional motivation

truly like "we know mordecai wouldn't want to kill atlas..." (agreed) "...so he can't have been the one to kill him" like first of all lol no way is it a Writeoff anyways, like we've got a mystery here but we Won't imagine ways in which [nobody could ever kill someone they didn't want to kill] wouldn't apply? second of all: Think Of The Drama Of Him Killing Him Even Though He Wouldn't Want To

[segadores-y-soldados]

Blizzard’s shitshow of a timeline

Alright, settle in kids, because this is gonna be a long one - I had to rant about this to @starsherit earlier today and fuck, maybe no one’s gonna want to dive into this mess, but fuck it, I’m frustrated by the maddeningly slow progress Blizzard’s Overwatch development team has put forward on this.

fucking LONGASS RANT under the cut, you’ve been warned.

Let’s start at the very fucking beginning.

Not that Omnic Crisis shit.

The fucking Overwatch “Cinematic Trailer” - aka the video that introduced Overwatch to the world.

This video was uploaded by “Play Overwatch,” Overwatch’s official Youtube Channel, on November 7, 2014 - almost a full year and a half before the game was actually released (May 23, 2016).

As most of you know, in the trailer, the characters Reaper and Widowmaker attempt to steal an item call the Gauntlet of Doomfist while Winston and Tracer attempt to stop them.  Some kids and Pixar magic help save the day and prevent the “bad guys” from making off with the loot.  We were shown a few key things: Widowmaker’s infrared ability, Tracer’s temporal stuff, Winston’s rage, Reaper’s Death Blossom, etc.

But this was fairly early on in the public aspects of Overwatch’s development so there are numerous inconsistencies: the one most frequently pointed out is Reaper’s skintone, which is extremely pale and not the same as his “grey” skintone that eventually made it to the final game (I don’t want to talk too much about Blizzard’s inconsistencies with his whole visible cosmetics because that’s a related but a whole separate issue and I’m trying to focus on timeline, storytelling, and world-building stuff here).

Another thing which I have NEVER seen pointed out

Is that Reaper actually uses a pipe bomb launcher at two points in the short.

The first:

And yes, It shoots exactly what you think it does.

And the second:

That seems really familiar doesn’t it?

Only problem is that the “final version” of Reaper doesn’t have this ability at all -

Junkrat does.

So what happened?

Well, as with most things that occur over a year and half, things change.  It was a video game early on in its stages of relatively public development.  It’s pretty well-known that Blizzard changed a lot of mechanics, made a ton of new characters, changed designs, etc.  It happens - it’s all part of the process of creation and design.  I don’t think anyone is faulting Blizzard for trying to make a very unique team-based game with a bunch of very unique characters.

The problem however, is that Blizzard and the Overwatch team have been very clear that they wanted the game design to come first, and the story design to come second.

You know what other series this has been a major issue for?

The Legend of Zelda.

I’ve talked about this issue frequently, under different usernames, with different people, for different fandoms, for different series - there is no one “right way” to make a game, just as there is no one “right way” to develop a story.  There is nothing wrong with wanting to prioritize gameplay, design, and development and make a story that fits those aspects later.  It can work.  But it does mean that if you aren’t careful, you will get problems poking through the cracks where you’ve glued them together.

And boy, does Overwatch have a lot of those.

For example, take this article:

https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/blog/19809396/

For those of you who can’t read it at the moment, it’s a long, “in-universe” article written by a editorialist for Overwatch’s fictional “Atlas News syndicate” about John “Jack” Morrison and his personal history - from a kid in Indiana, to supersoldier, to Omnic Crisis hero, to Overwatch’s commander, to the potential vigilante Soldier: 76.  It is where, essentially, most of the “meat” of Morrison’s and Reyes’ backstories are laid out for players and fans.

It was also posted on July 6, 2015, again, almost a full year before the game itself was put out on the street.

And it is FILLED with problems.

Problem 1:

["Even I had my doubts about whether Overwatch would succeed," UN Under-Secretary-General Gabrielle Adawe, one of Overwatch's key architects, said shortly after the end of the Omnic Crisis. "But Morrison never gave up hope. He didn't just meet our expectations for what Overwatch and its agents could achieve; he shattered them."

The UN rewarded Morrison for his contributions by making him Overwatch's first official commander. Reyes was passed over in the process, and it created a rift between the two men that would lead to tragic consequences.]

Jack Morrison is made Strike-Commander of Overwatch “shortly after the end of the Omnic Crisis.”  In the Soldier: 76 trailer (posted by Blizzard to their Youtube channel on July 7, 2015, a day after this ARG news article), Soldier confirms this description of his Overwatch career by saying “I led Overwatch for twenty years.”

So let’s start the timeline:

From that same ARG article:

[When [Jack Morrison] died under mysterious circumstances six years ago, I felt as if a part of my childhood died with him.]

[That Morrison was buried here six years ago. All that's left is the shadow of the hero we once knew.]

Source 1: The Explosion at the Swiss Base occurred roughly “six years ago” from the article’s posting “in-universe.”

New Source:

https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/blog/20130523

This article, also written “in-universe,” describes the Museum Heist attempt.  It expresses concerns and doubts about what a “Recalled Overwatch” can possibly hope to achieve in the world, after the public already said they didn’t want it.  This matches with the information given in the Soldier: 76 origins trailer, the Recall animated short, and the “Cinematic Teaser” (posted May 2, 2016 - narrated by Winston).

This article gives “the meat” of Overwatch’s total lore, describing the rise and fall of the organization, and even events that occurred after that.  It does not give a direct amount of years since “the fall,” but it more or less matches the other information other sources provide.

New Source:

https://twitter.com/to_grok/status/826487157430874112

A twitter conversation between user to_grok and Michael Chu, Overwatch’s lead writer, on both the Fall of Overwatch and Reaper’s biography (aka why I’m writing this mess).

[Michael Chu: No, Overwatch was disbanded around five years ago.]

Chu confirms that this particular aspect of the timeline has not changed.

Alright so, let’s crunch some numbers:

Reinhardt: age 61 in-game - born in the year 2016; Ana Amari: age 60 in-game - born in the year 2017.

2016 + 61 = 2077; 2017+ 60 = 2077

The “current point” when the majority of Overwatch’s gameplay, shorts, comics, and events occur roughly between 2076-2078, centering around the revelation of Jack Morrison’s “un-death” about 5 - 6 years ago, which is when the Swiss Base was destroyed and Overwatch was disbanded.

Let’s use the ARG article’s number and roll back 6 years:

2077 -  6 = 2071

[2071 - the year that Overwatch was disbanded and the year that the Swiss Base explosion occurred.]

Now let’s figure out when the Omnic Crisis ended, and supposedly when Jack was made Overwatch’s commander:

2071 - 20 years = 2051

[2051 - the year the Omnic Crisis was ended, Morrison became Strike-Commander, Overwatch moved from being a task force into being a global organization for peace]

Time since the end of the Omnic Crisis and Overwatch was officially made a global organization for peace: 26 years.

AND NOW WE COME TO PROBLEM 2:

From Article 1:

[According to Overwatch's former agents, this outcome was inevitable. "After Morrison's promotion to strike commander, his relationship with Reyes changed," Dr. Angela Ziegler, medical director of Overwatch, stated during a UN committee hearing. "The tension became more pronounced as time went on. I tried to mend things. We all did. Sometimes when the closest bonds break, all you can do is pray you stay out of the cross fire."]

Angela, oh Angela.

Angela’s in-game age: 37 years old.

Time since the end of the Omnic Crisis to the “present” game: 26 years:

Angela’s age at the end of the Omnic Crisis: 11 years old.

Now -

This seems like a real fucking contradiction to the story being developed, doesn’t it?

New Source: Mercy’s “official biography” from the Play Overwatch website:

[Ziegler rose to become the head of surgery at a prominent Swiss hospital before pioneering a breakthrough in the field of applied nanobiology that radically improved the treatment of life-threatening illnesses and injuries. It was this expertise that attracted the attention of Overwatch.]

I would be fucking shocked if an 11 year old could do this.

Other noteworthy aspects: since Jesse McCree is also 37 years old in-game, the same age as Angela, he too is 11 years old at the end of the Omnic Crisis.

Which means we have several contradictions going on:

1. Jack Morrison was made Strike-Commander 26 years ago, when Angela and Jesse were children and apparently somehow “a part of Overwatch” so they could witness this “transformation” between Morrison and Reyes.

2. Jack Morrison was made Strike-Commander 26 years ago and Angela and Jesse were not actually present for this event (because they were children) and therefore Angela’s quote from the article is impossible.

3. Jack Morrison was not actually made Strike-Commander 26 years ago, but instead was made Strike-Commander after Angela and Jesse join, making Angela’s quote possible but therefore making the entire timeline inaccurate.

Do you see where I’m going with this?

Things change during game development, I completely understand that.  The problem is that when you post multiple, contradicting “official sources” without having a clear understanding of your own story, you are going to run into - and even create - some problems.

The contradictions continue past this - as many people have pointed out, Chu and the Overwatch development team have retconned Genji’s backstory and the “lore aspects” of Tracer’s chronal accelerator, so they’re definitely open to changing parts of their story to make things fit better - even things that were “consistent” upon release like the chronal accelerator.

Which is why it is weird that Chu states that the wording in Reaper’s biography is intentional.

Because as I’ve already pointed out, Reaper is not at all the character he was originally shown to be in November 2014, and we have a number of other sources saying that his gameplay mechanics changed a lot during development time (at one point, his consumption of soul globes was going to prevent Mercy from being able to revive teammates).

Hypothetically, the Overwatch team could make a backstory that fits the description - it is entirely possible that Reyes became something along the lines of Reaper in SEP, or that he gained his Reaper abilities through unethical experiments at Blackwatch, or that - in order to give Overwatch plausible deniability - he conducted his Blackwatch missions under the guise of “Reaper,” pretending to be a mercenary instead of an agent of peace.

And he could actually just have been a double agent the whole time.

The last one is particularly frustrating for people who are fans of making Reaper a more complicated, complex character, because it does seem like “the easy way out” for the Overwatch team to take in order to avoid addressing the deeper questions that Overwatch’s attempts at a lore bring to the surface: was Reyes fucked over by Overwatch and the U.N.?  Is he actually a “ruthless mercenary” or is he searching for answers on his own?  Why does he blame Morrison and Overwatch for “becoming what he is?”

And yup -

Here’s another goddamn contradiction:

New Source: Old Soldiers Comic:

Transcript:

[Ana *removes Reaper’s mask*: What happened to you…?

Reaper *emphasis is from the comic, not me*: He did this to me, Ana.  They left me to become this thing.

Ana: Gabriel…

Reaper: They left you to die.  They left me to suffer… … Never forget that.]

Alright, so let’s try to break this problem down into different parts:

Part 1: Reaper has been Reaper for “decades.”

See, the above hypotheses could be explanations for Reaper’s inconsistencies in his biography, except for the fact that Old Soldiers, which is more recent than his Play Overwatch bio, states through Reaper himself that he “blames” two group - “him” and “them,” most likely Morrison and, with some easy inference, either Overwatch or Blackwatch.

Now, the most probable hypothesis, given all the information we know that is still somewhat consistent, is that Reaper is talking about some fall out related to the Swiss Base explosion, which he was caught in.  Prevailing fan theory says that some one - potentially Angela - or some group - potentially Talon or another anti-Overwatch organization - pulled his dying body out of the wreck and forced him to undergo experiments that transformed him into the Reaper.  If either of these theories are true, then his Play Overwatch biography is inaccurate and Chu is supporting the wrong timeline.

Part 2: the “Mercy botched Reaper” theory has largely been debunked.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20747844983#post-16

Granted, it was debunked by Chu, but technically, no one can find the supposed interaction of “This wasn’t my intention for you.”/”You knew what you were going,” so while it may have existed at one point, it has all but disappeared.  It’s entirely possible that fans misinterpreted or misheard the current Mercy/Reaper interaction of “what happened to you?”/”you tell me, doc” as implying that Mercy botched saving Reaper.  However, Old Soldiers also supports Chu, in its own way: Reaper does not say anything about Mercy failing to save him - he only resents Morrison and possibly Overwatch.

However, as someone in that Blizzard forum post points out, Reaper does have an audio line of “Don’t forget, you’re the one responsible for this,” although I personally cannot recall if or when he says the line in-game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoKRFx5Sb5g#t=4m7s

(Note that the video is about the Mercy botches saving Reaper theory and some of it may be outdated or have been removed from the game)

Anyways, back to the main point: Old Soldiers certainly implies that whatever made Reaper Reaper occurred sometime during Overwatch, or sometime after it, which, once again, when we do the math, generally does not add up to “decades” - unless the idea that Overwatch had a hand in making him into Reaper is true, or that they left him in the hands of some group that made him into Reaper and then “returned” him to Overwatch.

Plausible, but again…

Part 3: What the fuck kinda halfassed character motivation is that?

I personally find it strange that Reaper would work for a group he’s hated for “decades,” even as a double-agent.  It’s not that it’s impossible or even totally unheard of - it just seems unnecessarily shoddy in developing his character and placing it into the larger, admittedly inconsistent world of Overwatch.

It’s like trying to fit an old square block into a peg hole.

It would just be easier for Chu and the writing team to be clear and state that - much like Genji and Tracer and possibly even Soldier: 76 and Mercy - Reaper’s biography and his timeline have undergone numerous changes from the very beginning of development, to the game’s release, and even after, through Old Soldiers and Infiltration and beyond.  We all know what Blizzard did with the First Strike comic - admitting that the story had changed from its initial conception and therefore they needed to pull it was disappointing, but it at least acknowledged that their development of Overwatch’s world had shifted and would need to be reorganized.  Hell, if you pay close attention to the wording of the cancellation, you’ll see that Liao - supposedly the sixth member of the Overwatch original team - is not even mentioned in the entire post:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20752185714

I would be extremely...skeptical of Chu’s claims that the wording of Reaper’s biography is intentional - because we already know that Blizzard has retconned so much of the early Overwatch content and is putting the original lore through a massive overhaul.  So sure, maybe Reaper’s “decades” of work is going to be canon, but the fact remains that what is implied, right now, in the contradicting content that is out there, is that it is not.

Let me see if I can explain this:

From what is out there right now - Reaper blames Morrison, Overwatch, possibly some other group or people for his specific condition.  Ana - a character he worked with for his entire Overwatch career - is shocked by “what he had become.”  This is supported not only in Old Soldiers, but in their in-game interactions as well.

It would be extremely surprising if Reyes had been Reaper “the whole time” that Overwatch was around and Ana was completely unaware of his behavior, especially if the new fan theories that “Reaper” was his call sign are true.

From what Blizzard could eventually release - Reaper’s backstory could be changed to make it so that he was, in fact, Reaper for “decades,” that Reyes was turned into Reaper either during SEP or the Crisis or Overwatch eras - but that would involve scrubbing much of his current interactions with other characters, all of whom are surprised by “what he has become.”

“Oh but he was Reaper in secret” - what bullshit.  You think a globally-recognized hero, no matter how bitter he is, surrounded by the same people for nearly THIRTY YEARS, just sneaks off into the night to kill people and then comes back with literally no one noticing?

That makes Morrison and Amari both blind and incompetent.

The simplest conclusion is either:

1. Part of the “different direction” of First Strike will be reworking Reaper’s biography, and potentially changing a bunch of other information already out there and present in the game or

2. The “decades” line is just inaccurate.

Things change, even after a game is released.  Shit gets retconned all the damn time.  It happens.  Genji was not an Overwatch agent and then a cyborg.  Angela did not work for Overwatch at age 11.  The in-game map of Dorado’s location in Mexico is way different from the map in the Soldier: 76 origins trailer.  The photos of Junkrat and Roadhog in the bank are literally just their models from their “line up” pictures.  Reaper does not shoot bombs.  Liao seemingly does not exist anymore.  Tracer’s chronal accelerator can be removed.  Hanzo has a fucking undercut.  Torbjorn has eight children.  Symmetra now has her shield generator.  Roadhog has hook 2.1.

Things change.

I will be astounded if Blizzard can make all these contradictions work for Reaper, but I suspect somewhere, much like his fucking pipe bomb launcher and his “Don’t forget, you’re the one responsible for this” line and his bloody skintone, something, somewhere, will be cut or changed or contradicted.  I suspect that it is entirely possible that we will see a comic or a short or some sort of lore where Reyes was “left behind by his team” and tortured into becoming Reaper and then returned to work as a double-agent - something that happened “decades” ago, as opposed to a comic or short or some sort of lore where Talon or another group pulls him from the wreck of the Swiss Base and makes him into something new only “six years” ago.

Something that is, unfortunately, “the easy way out” of developing Reaper as a more complicated, more complex character.

Of course, at the rate story-based content is released for Overwatch, it could be a long while before we see the results of this whole debate and discussion and mess.

...Maybe even decades?

It’s hard to say.

So I can already figure a lot of people who have come across are saying, “Aren’t you just being a disgruntled, delusional fan?  Is your interpretation of this so important that you’re unwilling to change in the face of new information?”

That’s not really the point of this - I have my interpretation and it is unfortunately built on piles and piles of already-released, already-contradicting information that Blizzard has put out.  While I am a fan of post-Fall Reaper and the idea that he was made after the Swiss Base explosion, my biggest gripe with Blizzard isn’t Reaper at all, but fucking the Overwatch timeline as a whole.  The Crisis ended thirty years ago?  Morrison was Overwatch commander for twenty years?  When are Angela and Jesse recruited?  When did Winston escape from the moon colony?  Did he make Athena, or is she possibly an Omnic God Program like some fans hypothesize?  Who fucking joins “Post-Recall” Overwatch and why?  Why DOES Hanzo have an undercut?  What is the fucking point of the Ilios map and why do I care about guarding some hole to the center of the earth?  What is Junkrat’s secret?  Will we ever see Roadhog’s face?  Will Brigitte ever become a playable character?  Are you guys gonna fucking hire Terry Crews or not?

Blizzard has SO MANY FUCKING PROBLEMS in their timeline that the Reaper “decades” thing is just one surface part of the iceberg.

It’s fine and dandy to put gameplay and game design before story - Overwatch’s gameplay is practically seamless and so fucking fluid that you don’t even really need a story - it’s got that Halo “Red vs Blue” or Team Fortress 2 type chaos built into it and that makes it fun, flexible, and fair for the vast majority of players.

But it would be great for Blizzard to recognize - beyond Genji and Tracer, beyond First Strike - that the problems poking through the glue holding disjointed gameplay and story together do have an impact on how their characters and lore are perceived in the long run.

Whether that comes down to complaints about the Sombra ARG, or the disappointing amount of skins for some characters over others, or the fact that half the maps seemingly have nothing to do with the world being built, or the fact that the comics are good but totally separated from one another, or the fact that the shorts are just enough to tease and not enough to really explore the world and characters -

Or even if comes down to Reaper being a “bad guy” for “decades.”

Reyes having been Reaper for “decades” and therefore having been “a bad guy all along” will be a massive disappointment for everyone who wants to see the complicated, complex, dark-skinned, Latino character get a good backstory and eventually a good redemption arc - but it will be disappointingly expected too.  The silver lining is that he’s still one of the funniest, funnest, wittiest, most sarcastic characters in the game, and no matter how many contradictions they build onto him, nothing will take away from shit like “I’m back in black,” “Welcome to the black hole,” “I’m a high-functioning psychopath,” “What kind of name is Doomfist anyways?”, and the fucking line of solid gold, “It’s in the refrigerator.”

Also

Sometimes being the “bad guy” is way more fun than being the hero.

I have no fucking clue who’s actually gonna read all of this but in summary:

To Chu, if you come across this: be very careful about overhyping things or vaguing information for your followers.  I don’t think any of us here want to see the First Strike cancellation repeat itself.  When you wrote Old Soldiers, were you thinking about Reaper’s biography and the word “decades”?  It would be very interesting to learn how Blizzard’s timeline for Overwatch has changed throughout development.

To everyone else, whoever reads this: be skeptical of claims made by Blizzard, individual members of their team, and by fellow fans, including me!  Like, holy shit, it’s crazy cool you got this far, but seriously, take a look, click those URLs, find that missing dialogue, do the math.  “Word of God” means very little in this day and age when content creators change their ideas and stories all the time for something new, something they think is better.

Thanks for reading, sorry if I rambled in places, and sorry if I didn’t end very strong.  I wanted to write more shitty fic shit this morning but got totally sidetracked by hunting down this problem and it just...I’m tired of seeing funny, interesting, unique, creative characters get reworked by their creators into something more “typical” so that they don’t have to deal with the heavy lifting of the problems that come with defying expectations.  Reflections was a great start - hell, having such a diverse cast of characters to begin with was a great start - but I look at things like the First Strike cancellation and the whole “we’re moving in a different direction,” and it just echoes other video game series that have done the same thing in the past.

The theme of Overwatch is that there are “limitless possibilities” - “anyone can be a hero.”  The world could always use more heroes.  So to turn that around and make the “stereotypical bad guy” into a tired, tried stereotype once again would be bitterly disappointing.  And at a time when people of all races, ages, genders, beliefs, and origins are facing harsh, real world struggles in the face of renewed evils, Overwatch provides an opportunity for fun, fairness, and optimism.  To use that platform to tell the same tired, tried story is just exhausting.

[unproduciblesmackdown]

speaking of lackadaisy i had like another tiny detail thought about the murder mystery i was like "well and maybe i'll have a further revelation about it that would make for a post that says Anything else" lol but so far not yet so. we post anyways

first of all. someone said it in an ask and not like i disbelieved them but it's like ohh my god is "i bet mordecai shot/killed atlas" really that Rare a theory like screamm....like okay we all agree mordecai's going detective mode b/c He's Doing That In The Latest Comic Pages but when it's like "he joined marigold....to investigate them....b/c he wants to find out Who Killed Atlas" i'm like sob okay Please do we remember the page where he & mitzi were like "well We know how atlas died and one of us passed a gun to the other about it" and the more recent page where mordecai is like "well Eye know how atlas died to such a degree that i know Who Wasn't Even There" liiiiike! after going "i Thought until Just Now that marigold Didn't have any involvement w/atlas's death" like okay mordecai having joined up just to investigate them, how does that line up. ugh. anyways and when it's like "lol what if mordecai did it" even as that Hypothesis and the counterargument is like "but he worked for him....loyally....he wouldn't want to. so that's impossible XD" like head in hands therein would lie thee drama & the mystery of Whydunit, not Whodunit....

anyways lord lmfao so. just reestablishing my "mitzi and mordecai were both in on atlas's death" stance. was just thinking about how of course this is all about Character/Story and not about like, the goal of thee mystery out here being like as complex and opaque and surprising as possible, so really just turning to thinking about Character as as relevant a clue towards mystery-solving theorizing as anything else....like how noticing mordecai's silhouetted revolver that atlas gave him on the train and that he seems to be giving mitzi in that flashback are The Same, like, that's gotta be significant not b/c it's Impossible it isn't, but b/c it Would be to serve Story/Character here....and imo even going like "wow the resonance if mordecai, as atlas's loyal employee who doesn't want to, shot atlas w/that same revolver atlas gave him to be shooting other people so mordecai maybe didn't have to die" is like "evidence" for that theory like. yeah that'd be fun & relevant, which Does make it more likely it's accurate

so the character thought i had which can barely warrant a post but to hell with it, was just re: musing on how a total mystery is what tf role mitzi had in the circumstances that plausibly led to atlas's death, which both she and mordecai seem to believe ascribes to her some Fault in his death, even though she didn't kill him herself....and ofc i'm still like, hmm, shrug, but i was also sure just thinking about how like, everyone's in this because the bootlegging seems to be their only option / they feel sort of backed into a corner about Something Or Other and are trying to deal with that....except like, ivy, while everyone else is dropping their head in their hands like We're Not Doing This For Fun, don't invent reasons to be here....but i was thinking about how mitzi has a combination of like, being particularly Opportunistic (like, so far as we know her life didn't depend on marrying atlas; keeping up her band gig was still an obvious option; she was more actively pursuing Possibility than reacting to being in a corner with increasing desparation & decreasing options. even when that doesn't Not apply to her situation, just less dramatically than for many others, and it seems to have been more about being motivated by the Positives than the Negatives) (also shoutout to atlas being immediately described as "an opportunist") and that also like, key to a premise of this whole story as "lackadaisy really ought to just close up shop but it sure hasn't and is trying to open it up even harder" is that mitzi also seems to just take any given avenue in her pursuit of some opportunity far enough to be feasibly In Over Her Head....she's going ham like, still trying to make lackadaisy work at all, for one, trying to pitch investments while people are in the building on an armed revenge rampage until zib & co. help get most people out of the path of that, willing to employ & keep employing rocky in the bootlegging side of things, trying to power through effectively a drinking contest with wick in his cellar and then robbing him via check after getting in brawls on the pavement to keep her pearl necklace and if wick finds out then that'll hopefully not be a life-&-death problem for future mitzi....it's a lot of fun lol & truly apropos for her & mordecai to have some big secret while they're also, apparently largely independently, these like super active characters pushing things along

so in underwhelming conclusion it's taking things from "hmm maybe mitzi did something that had of course unforeseen consequences that somehow led up to atlas dying" to "yeah and because it'd fit if she saw some Opportunity that she decided to pursue in some particular way and not letting up until it's fully derailed and/or other people have helped mitigate the damage or prevent worse"....and since i'm theorizing here that probably also atlas was in on his own death, that could sure be Because for some reason or another, doing so mitigated damage or prevented further, worse damage....sure haven't had any revelations like answers to "ok what could that opportunity she was trying to seize have been" or "and why would atlas dying help" but it just seems fitting if like hmm what if major character traits of mitzi's that make the whole story what it is might be relevant to that [hmm what role did she have regarding atlas dying]