#such as the peek into Vietnamese BL fans and all

[kafkaoftherubble]

Okay. Bro. /inhales deeply

I ordered a normal meal and you gave me a full-course meal?!

YOU ARE SPOILING ME, CLAIRE!!!

I can't believe you even realized what incident I was referring to despite my limited context. Was that a seismic "controversy" at the time?! Hmm... I kinda think it's also because you're just that knowledgeable about this stuff!

I mean, you actually have citations and references. This is a genuinely compact essay with good points and reporting. Bro, this is high-quality high-effort stuff, and I learn so much about this side of the BL culture and the window it provides into Thai entertainment culture. I didn't know it's that easy for entertainers to sue people, for example!

I'm quite relieved to hear that delusional fans aren't the majority or the loudest in the response, unlike those heydays of K-pop fandom when my sister and best friend were really into it. If a large group of clear-eyed fans, possessing Monk Dol's wisdom, is always there to push back against these delusional ones, then one can still hope that this fervor doesn't worsen into extremism or encourage profit-hungry companies into adopting predatory marketing behaviors/fan events.

Oh yea! I asked about the companies because Korean entertainment juggernauts are notoriously opportunistic in milking the worth out of their celebrities. I learned about them from my sister and best friend's telling too (I also asked questions like these back then ahhahahahaha). They definitely deliberately cash in on the fans' delusions and actively work to cultivate such delusions.

I wanted to know if such extremities are already found in blossoming entertainment industries such as Thailand. I also wonder if it's the inevitable endpoint for every model powered by the beast of capitalism. I think this is one of the developments I'm most curious about!!!

"Brand pairing" is a really new term to me! I didn't know this is how you called such a practice!

I still find the accusation of deception the most preposterous, and it's probably the worst representation of parasocial interaction. Actors are, by their trade, selling you entertaining deceptions. They are acting. It's not real. That's their job, and we audience engage with them per this contract that everything on screen is made up. When a character dies in the show, the actor isn't actually dead! Pup isn't really a monk! James isn't really an Elon Musk type! Stuff like that.

So to accuse actors and entertainers, broadly, for duplicity is as ridiculous as accusing a boxer of being good at boxing. Or accusing potatoes of being carbohydrates.

---

On your man JJ Krissanapoom!

Honestly, my brain auto-saw the names as "JJK-rissnapoom" at first. Because I still have that Jujutsu Kaisen brain cells in there, BWAHAHAHHAHA!

I will be really surprised if an actor who's been seeing someone for seven years is still getting flack for "not being authentic" or "posing pictures with your girlfriend instead of your pair." The dude has his girlfriend before he has this pair, man.

And the premise actually sounds interesting enough even for someone who's not into romance. I wonder how gritty it might be! If it's also a good crime thriller, I think I'd love to see it too!

Okay, so the original post you wrote has been a while and I saw it by ghost-reading (this is when I read someone's blog without signing into Tumblr. I'm only signed in on a specific browser on my laptop to prevent mindless scrolling).

If I recall correctly, you mentioned being ready to protect a Thai actor because he's some BL actor but is married to a wife (or has a girlfriend). That reminded me of an incident my best friend told me while we were chatting.

She said there was this time when two pairs of BL actors (she coded them as Pair A + B, and Pai C +D since I don't know them and their names weren't the point) got massively flacked by fans because B kissed C on camera when the four friends were hanging out. Fans apparently saw it as a betrayal of the "BL pairing," even though all four of them were just vlogging their activities not as characters they play.

I wanna know more about this phenomenon out of curiosity!

Is it as common as my best friend put it? Or is she just unlucky enough to be caught in such a storm?

Why do fans think this way, when these are just actors and not the real characters? Is it similar to the issue of fans of Kpop, Jpop, or even Cpop artists who cannot accept their idols marrying or dating anyone?

What do the companies hiring or signing these actors do to mitigate such an issue/protect their actors?

Or... Do the companies cash in on this sort of fanatic fervor, such that they encourage fans to believe this illusion, or mandate their actors to uphold such an illusion even when they are being themselves outside of acting?

How does an incident like this usually get resolved?

What are the major stances of Thai BL fans on this issue? Not all of them support this sort of fervor, right?

Lastly: what do you think, personally, is central to this sort of incident?

Sorry if it sounds like some college assignment, but I really wanna know what you think! I'm so curious as an outsider to all of this...

Thanks!!!

Hiiiii Lyn \(￣︶￣*\))

You have no idea how happy I am to receive this ask because I've been wanting to talk about that couple incident that you're referring to since forever but I've never gotten the chance to properly collect my thoughts about it. Thank you for allowing this opportunity to ramble about this and for your very introspective questions.

So firstly to give some context to it, I think it's a bit more important to cover some background information of the two pairings that you're talking about.

OffGun and TayNew are some of the oldest pairings in GMMTV. They are known to all be good friends with each other (if not to say they're each other best friends). They've all done non-BL works with different actors but in terms of promotions, OffGun and TayNew have always been regarded to be the 'pillars' of GMMTV (their company) branded pairings.

Even though the four people are close with each other, Tay is particularly close with Gun (and this is public fact known by everyone who follows them), often teasingly calls each other pet/master and have some hangouts/vacations with just them two.

In the case of TayGun, I think their playful kiss being caught unexpectedly on livestream caused so much reactions was because it's a private moment between them. BL fans are too used with using private moments (re:clips of casual skinship between actors during work events and non-work livestream) to prove the existence of their closeness or togetherness -> so when New accidentally turned his camera to show Gun playfully kissing Tay during livestream, I think many (outraged) fans falsely equated that TayGun kissing in private like that means they're romantically involved to a certain degree.

Even though Tay has come out to explain that it isn't the case and that Gun was just playfully teasing him, there were still so much flacks thrown his way. Even with clarifications from both sides, you can basically see from the comments section of these Tiktoks (1, 2, 3, 4) that there is a considerable portion of OffGun and TayNew upset and disappointed (even though there is no reason to). I'll just translate some of the Vietnamese ones because those are the comments that show up first for me.

For those who follow [OffGun], you'll already know that Gun has been avoiding skinship from Off since 2022, fans used to think that he was shy but now we get it 🥲

10 years is just a number =)))))) (t/n: OP is insinuating that OffGun has been fooling their fans for 10 years)

What kind of 'friends' kiss each other on the lips?!

Now I can't watch OffGun series anymore ���� Can they please give us a TayGun series 😌

Have I been blind all this time because how can everything has been so clear yet I still don't know it 🥲🥲🥲

Is it as common as my best friend put it? Or is she just unlucky enough to be caught in such a storm?

I think it's both common and not. So 'common' is in the sense that whenever one half of a branded pairing or 'koojin' is close and intimate with another person or displaying any possibilities of them being involved with said person in real life, it always trigger these reactions from shipper fans to immediately deny that possibilities or to attack the actors in the branded pairing as if they have 'deceived' their fans.

This has infinitely lessened in recent years with actors actively taking a stance against their fans harrassing their colleagues over ships but in general we still see it now and then with popular/rising/active ships or inactive ships but with astronomically huge fandoms (see: reactions of brightwin fans to bright's dating news).

I'm also saying it's uncommon for 'two halfs of two different popular BL pairings to get rumored to be together' but in 2024, it has already happened twice so who knows what's real really 😅 Aside from the case of TayNew/OffGun, there's also the case of actors Mew and Tul (who were both parts of ships with HUGE fandoms MaxTul and MewGulf) confirming their in real life relationship but their news was more well received internationally as neither of their old ships have been active in having series together for a while (i still see flacks for both of them here and there but that's because i'm vietnamese and vietnamese negative reactions are always the ones i see first to any dating news of one half of a BL pairing).

Why do fans think this way, when these are just actors and not the real characters? Is it similar to the issue of fans of Kpop, Jpop, or even Cpop artists who cannot accept their idols marrying or dating anyone?

I think there are several reasons like actors and companies contributing to the delusions of shipper fans and fans not being able to separate real life actors from the characters they play on screen, which have been extensively discussed in these Reddit threads (1, 2) so I won't delve into them. I'll just focus on a common reason i've seen from vietnamese fans being the combination of emotional and financial investment in these ships.

Similar to Kpop, Jpop or even Cpop idols as you've mentioned, there's a large degree of parasocial relationship involved between a CP/idol and their fans. Rather than the Kpop idol feeding fans the delusion of them being an attractive yet attainable, relatable, single person, these 'koojins' offer CP fans the image of a beautiful friendship/'will they/won't they'/'ambiguous more than friends, less than lovers' relationship -> so once there is a strong emotional attachment to the actors who are part of a pairing, fans will inevitably have strong feelings about their romantic life aka whether the CP is really together or not.

Even though branded pairings or 'love teams' have been an age old phenomenon since the dawn of television (not just in Southeast Asia but in Hollywood as well), I think this phenomenon has flourished particularly in Southeast Asia with many successful stories of actors having on-screen to off-screen real life romances (see: KathNiel in the Philippines, NadechYaya in Thailand...)

What do the companies hiring or signing these actors do to mitigate such an issue/protect their actors? and How does an incident like this usually get resolved?

I think one of the most interesting things about Thailand entertainment industry is that it's so easy for celebrities to sue people for online defamation. So rather than making any statements to 'save' their branded pairings or to resolve any confusion, the company doesn't do anything (which I understand because the artists are already clarifying themselves to the nosy press about any 'possible scandals that happened'). In the case that online commenters are getting too toxic, the artists can just screenshot the toxic tweets/posts, send them to the company's legal department and those defamation cases get resolved by the police.

But even then, that hasn't really stopped fandoms that are too large in size, too delusional in mind to do the crazy things they do even after a branded pairing has stopped working together, such as showing up at the fanmeeting of one actor, wearing masks of the other actor in that inactive ship. In this case, the company can't do anything since... well those people paid to attend the fanmeeting and get a photo with their idol. The most a company could do is probably to 'officially announce the ending of the ship' but... their comments section are still full of obsessed fans til this day so i doubt that announcement made any difference to the fully obsessed and delusional cp fans.

Or... Do the companies cash in on this sort of fanatic fervor, such that they encourage fans to believe this illusion, or mandate their actors to uphold such an illusion even when they are being themselves outside of acting?

Companies have always generated as much revenue from brand endorsement, brand promotions fanmeetings, concerts, selling merchs of these pairisings as they do from producing and airing these series if not more, so I've also felt a sense of these companies capitalizing upon their branded pairings and the volatileness of delusional fans.

If you're interested here and here are two interviews with P'Tha, the CEO of GMMTV company which TayNew and OffGun are under, I think his sharings in these interviews are very insightful into how the companies view these branded pairings (the main source of income for these companies basically).

I wouldn't say that the companies mandate or force their actors to act a certain to create an illusion of an ambiguous/are they aren't they ship for any branded pairings, but i DO think that being in an environment where two people (who are part of a branded pairing) are constantly being shipped or teased by co-workers and sometimes even the ceo himself... that does make shipper fans more delusional than they normally would. it's like as if you were in a class and everyone around you start shipping two people or pushing two people to be together, you'd be questioning what the others know about those two that you don't... it's 'sus' as the cp fans will say 😂

What are the major stances of Thai BL fans on this issue? Not all of them support this sort of fervor, right?

I think there's all sorts of opinions that pops up whenever there's news of someone dating surfaces, there are no consensus on it because the feelings of the fans rely largely on how emotionally invested they are in the actors/real people. There are fans who will take the news harder (feeling tricked, deceived, all that jazz) and there are also fans who will feel like 'oh that's normal' or they would rejoice in the happiness of their favorite actor having an in real life parner. Also it's probably important to note that the stance of Thai BL fans do not necessarily align with the stance of general Thai audience, for example when Thai actor Bright revealed his girlfriend Nene, basically the entire Thai netizen is supportive of him whereas his previous branded pairing fans are divided between supporting him and feeling 'betrayed' by this reveal.

Lastly: what do you think, personally, is central to this sort of incident?

Personally, I think it's fans' expectations. Similar to what Monk Dol told Dear about not holding on to things too tightly, I think fans often hold on to the romantic stories portrayed on screen more strongly than they do with non-romantic stories. Therefore, the reality of an actor having a real life partner often dispels this illusion of a 'screen-to-life' romance stories that fans may have concocted in their mind for any pairings not limited to whether they are in queer love or straight love stories.

I feel like it's just much easier for fans of straight pairings to move on since they don't get paired repeatedly as leads together every 1-2 years and they often don't have couples' work (like promoting brands togethers...) long after the ending of their series together, contrasting with branded pairings in BL/GL series who still get brands work together after the ending of their series -> allowing their "ship" fanbase to grow and the fans to have even larger expectations of the actors to have future works together.

Again it might be a lot of me to ask that these dedicated fans not to have expectations (which may eventually lead to their own suffering) because logically these fans do pour in not just emotional investment but also like HUGE financial investment so having expectations are really inevitable ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ perhaps they should watch สาธุ and learn to let go of having any expectations for a ship or an idol which will benefit all parties involved 😅

Anyhow before I end this, please let me ramble and promote my beloved actor, JJ Krissanapoom whom you've mentioned first in your ask.

JJ Krissanapoom is a prolific Thai actor whose works I've followed really early on in my journey of Thai media consumation. He's starred in works of different genres and he's had queer love-adjacent projects before like Diary of Tootsies (with Paopetch aka Monk Ekkachai in สาธุ) and Great Men Academy (with James Teeradon aka Win in สาธุ).

But JJ has been in a highly publicized long term relationship with his girlfriend Thanaerng for seven years now, so I have no fears/worries about the reception of Thai fans to his upcoming queer love work Spare Me Your Mercy.

That being said, I'm still very worried about any negative reactions from delusional shippers because even if the actors have nothing to insinuate that they're together or even if they're both actors with in real life partners, the delusional fans always have the following comment templates to bash the drama/actors

I can't see the chemistry between the actors, probably because they both have girlfriends.

Why is the actor posting pictures with his girlfriend instead of promoting his own series?!!?

Why does the actor have an event with his girlfriend rather than an event with his co-star??!?!?!?

things like these... i'm already expecting.... and praying they won't happen... also if they do... i wouldn't be very surprised... and i'm actually very parasocially attached to jj and thanaerng's irl relationship so i feel like i'm even extra protective of their relationship than i already do.

and i'm definitely going off track here... but yes i'm very much looking forward to having jj krissanapoom on my screen again, in this BL series about a cop solving a series of murders of dying patients, to which his doctor boyfriend is the no.1 suspect of.

and here's a cute recent clip of all three people jaylerr, gun and tay to end my lengthy incoherent ramble