#star trek illyrian

[star-trek-fandom-confessions]

#1145

Eugenics and genetic modification are not the same thing. The terms are not interchangeable. Eugenics is the practice of erasing perceived ‘undesirable’ traits in the gene pool. It is motivated by racism and ableism and is horrific. Genetic modification is one possible tool that eugenicist could use to achieve that end. Another tool which has actually been used by eugenicists to advance their awful goal is compulsory sterilization. This is also horrific and recognized as such - compulsory sterilization is a Crime Against Humanity in the Rome Statute. However, sterilization procedures such as tube tying and vasectomies are not practices that people generally call for to be banned, because people may want to prevent themselves from getting pregnant or from getting another person pregnant for all sorts of reasons and we recognized that people should have autonomy over their own bodies and be free to make their own reproductive choices. Consensual vasectomies and tube tying being legal in a country does not mean that country is endorsing eugenics. A country in which there is a government program of coercing or using incentives to get members groups perceived as undesirable to have their tubes tied or have vasectomies is practicing eugenics. The legality and use of tool in general does not necessarily mean that the tool is being used for eugenics. Now, let’s take that one step further with a hypothetical on genetic engineering. Imagine that we determine that if one gene was removed from the human genome, those without that gene would no longer get dementia and there were zero other impacts. Would a country that made that genetic modification procedure available for free to everyone who wanted it and the doctors performing that procedure be practicing eugenics? Now imagine that procedure didn’t work in adults or even children. It had to be administered during fetal development to be effective. Would a parent choosing to have that gene removed from their unborn child so they would never get dementia be practicing eugenics? I'm not going to weigh in on those my point is that it’s a complex issue, there are very flew easy answers available and you really have to consider motive. Eugenicists are motivated by the view that certain people are superior and other people are inferior and they want to get rid of the latter.

Applying it to Strange New Worlds, Una has specifically stated that the Illyrian motivation for genetic modification is so that they fit in with their environment, rather than terraform (this intersects another really interesting scientific ethical discussion happening around climate engineering and the potential consequences). There is no evidence in canon that Illyrians are motivated by the need to be superior or are getting rid of undesired traits. They took up modification to live on planets that would otherwise be unhospitable to them (beta canon is that their home world is no longer inhabitable even with modification due to environmental collapse outside of their control, they’re essentially environmental refugees). While Illyrians modify themselves genetically, there is no evidence that Illyrians are practicing eugenics. In the context of DS9, Bashir’s parents believed it was undesirable to have a son with intellectual disabilities. They modified him to get rid the trait they perceived as undesirable. They were practicing eugenics. In Star Trek canon, billions of people died during the Eugenics Wars. When it comes to the law, it is incredibly difficult determining motive and therefore it is understandable that they banned genetic engineering as a way of stopping eugenicists and preventing a repeat. But in doing so, they accidentally created a legal regime in which entire families could be arrested.   The point Star Trek has been making lately with the Illyrian storyline is sometimes shit is complicated, and that a law that is meant to protect, can also sometimes harm and we need to be able to listen, think and consider complex situations. And I also hate myself a bit for writing this. I should just be able to ignore all the terrible takes and ‘I haven’t watched but…’ people.

[wowthesewomen]

[spocksbrainworms]

In case any of you needed proof that Pike gets pegged

[prettylittlelifeforms]

The thing that really sucks about the whole eugenics thing in strange new worlds is framed as ‘eugenics is a cultural practice for these people and it’s okay actually’ and not ‘una was genetically modified before birth and therefore cannot have consented and should not be punished for someone else’s decision’

In my opinion DS9 handled this really well with Julian, makes it clear how eugenics is very clearly a BAD thing but he did not consent to the practice and just wishes to contribute as he is capable.

I don’t think the topic needed to be explored again from the other point of view. That’s not to say that these stories shouldn’t continue to be told but framing eugenics not only as a good thing but as a metaphor for antisemitism and literally making holocaust parallels it’s really, really disgusting considering how it has been used historically.

[ds29gurl2]

Neera is the baddest, the best part of this whole episode. I am so happy everyone came together to defend Una. Pike is a G for going to Illyria, and its inhospitable atmosphere, to help her :D I also love how this episode shows that laws NEED to change to accommodate the time and situations. Something that happened 200 years ago cannot have such a chokehold on our views in the present. UNA WHY WOULD YOU TURN YOURSELF IN, I mean I get it, BUT DAMN!

[raddocwrites]

Do you even lift, Bro Una?

Una carrying members of the crew, becasue thats a thing now.

Una looked at captain pike with her eyebrow raised. “Captain, what did the ambassador just say?”

The captain had the decency to look chagrined. He cleared his throat. “Well…ambassador Talia said that as enterprises matriarch, it is ceremonial to carry me…um…your husband around the Mother Tree to demonstrate your strength, determination and selflessness. Thus concluded, we can begin negotiations for them to join Starfleet.

Una just stared at him unamused for a moment longer, making the captain squirm slightly under her piercing gaze. Then she turned to ambassador talia with a smile and gave a small bow. “Of course, ambassador.”

With that, she quickly scooped the captain up bridal style, held him easily in her arms and began to circle the giant tree while the rest of the Triani delegation followed, all holding hands.

“Chris,” una said somewhat exacerbated. “How does this keep happening?”

“What?” the captain asked with faux innocence. He draped his arms loosely around his number ones neck and beamed. He looked entirely too comfortable being carried like this.

Una rolled her eyes. “You know exactly what I mean.”

The captain just smiled up at her and kicked his feet a little bit. “What? I cant help it if everyone thinks we are married.”

Una scoffed. “Of course, you can. You really need to stop letting this happen.” She looked down at him with an eyebrow arched. “Remember the lecture la’an gave you after the mix up on Tsalia IV where they thought you and the entire away team were married?”

The captain grimaced. “Oof. Yeah, that was bad,” he agreed. La’ans lecture on potential security risks due to the captains egregious and overly effusive affection for the crew which led to a gross misunderstanding and required them to enact several DAYS worth of a fake married situation, still made him shudder.

“Yes,” una agreed. “And on Zelon III where they thought you and spock were married?” The captain tilted his head acknowledging unas words.

“Or Yshlyn prime, Pheora X and Lusitianan one where they ALL thought WE were married.”

“There is that,” the captain agreed lightly.

“Or my favorite, Cathlos II where we had to watch you and ortegas try not to bicker us all to death because they thought you were married.”

The captain groaned at the memory. He gave out a low chuckle. “That was…memorable.” He agreed. Then he snuggled further into una as she held him tightly. “I think my favorite was Moop’sey Mons where you and I were married and somehow la’an and spock were our kids.” The captain grinned.

Una snorted then rolled her eyes. But she didn’t argue. Because…it had felt right calling la’an her family. And it had been adorable watching la’an and spock squabble like true siblings.

“My point is,” una said severely. “This needs to stop happening.”

The captain just shrugged. “I will do my best,” he promised as una finished the walk around the tree and gently set him back down. She smiled softly as she steadied him a moment. She knew he would try. But she also knew chris. This would keep happening.

[the-redhead-in-a-dress]

Can we have a Menagerie AU, but its Spock and La'an abducting Chris together and stealing the Enterprise to bring him to Una whose been exiled to an Illyrian colony...

[see notes for my feelings on the Menagerie ep]

[lesbiancalkestis]

Holy shit Yetide Badaki knocked it out of the park as Neera. That episode was SO GOOD. I really hope we see her again.

[curator-on-ao3]

This didn't occur to me when I first watched "Ad Astra per Aspera" but someone brought it up on Twitter last year and now I can't stop wondering. --

Pike went to the Valteera Nebula to find Neera, he had to have a breathing apparatus since the atmosphere is toxic to humans. So, here's the confusion--did Una and Neera grow up at Valteera? Because I don't see how that's possible, unless the human colony on the planet had an environmental dome.

I'm just wondering your thoughts because the episode made it seem as if Una left and Neera stayed but the toxicity of the atmosphere doesn't quite make sense.

Thank you so much for asking, @marymoss1971! ❤️ As you might have guessed, I’ve given this a lot of thought since the episode aired.

Bottom line: We don’t know (yet).

More detail: Una and Neera might have grown up on that particular planet (or moon or something else, but I’ll stick with “planet” for simplicity’s sake) within the Vaultera Nebula, but they might not have. Memory Alpha says the Vaultera Nebula has a radius of eight light years. Figuring that’s 16 light years across, I looked it up to try to contextualize and there are ten stars within 16 light years of Earth (including Wolf 359 and 40 Eridani, home to Vulcan within the Trekverse). Figuring the potential for multiple planets and their moons to orbit any one star — and the choice Illyrians make to settle in places with conditions not usually considered suitable for life — it’s possible that Neera was on another planet within the nebula … or that Neera was on the planet where she and Una grew up (on the Illyrian side, if that division from their childhood still exists).

It’s also worth noting that we don’t actually know if it was humans who persecuted Illyrians when Una was a child. The word “human” is spoken only once in Ad Astra Per Aspera, and that’s in Pike’s personal log at the beginning to explain that the atmosphere where he was trying to find legal help wasn’t suitable for him to breathe. (It makes sense to me that humans were the problem given Augment-borne human prejudice against genetic engineering, and that we’ve been led to believe Una posed as a human as opposed to some other species. But the canon isn’t 100% definitive, even if the humans-were-the-problem dots seem readily connectable.)

So, if Una and Neera did grow up on that particular planet with air not suitable for humans, we can guess that the people who persecuted Illyrians:

weren’t human

were human and used domes or masks or some other technology to breathe

lived on a part of the planet where they could breathe because not all parts of the planet had the air Pike experienced. Like how many people have to use supplementary oxygen when climbing Mount Everest right here on Earth.

One tangent/slim possibility worth mentioning: Una might not be able to breathe that air either. Since Una said, speaking of the Illyrians she grew up around, “Some of us have immune systems that can glow,” it could be that “some” Illyrians have different modifications from each other, even on the same planet (not to mention vast modifications across planets). So, even though Neera’s cousin has an immune system that glows and Una has an immune system that glows, we don’t yet know for sure if Neera and Una have the same modifications.

In conclusion: If Neera did leave the planet where she and Una grew up to live where humans couldn’t breathe the air, that would make sense to me given her character. It would also make sense to me if Neera was, indeed, on the planet where she and Una grew up. I could see some pretty darn compelling arguments for Neera to choose either course of action.

I hope this helps, @marymoss1971, and thank you again for asking! ❤️

[stoplookingup]

Hot take: Spock turning human and scarfing bacon is not Strange New World's antisemitism problem. Una Chin-Riley is.

A member of an invisible ethnic minority widely considered supremacist, dangerous, and treacherous, Una is courtmartialed, Dreyfus Affair-like, on the basis of her identity. "Ad Astra Per Aspera" draws explicit parallels to various historical prejudices, but you can't ignore the 800-pound Jewish gorilla in the room. Illyrians are members of a distinct ethnicity who live undetected among others and have cultural practices and beliefs that the majority find offensive and frightening. While the episode portrays the trial as unjust and Una ultimately gets off (on a technicality), it nevertheless frames Illyrian culture as one of covert colonization using genetic advantage. Not to mention, Illyrians are feared because of an actual (in-universe) historic event in which a group of people like them sought world domination and committed horrible atrocities. On the Jewish Question, I'd hope for better from Star Trek than, "Notwithstanding your sneaky settler-colonial culture and your suspicious kinship with heinous evildoers, we should maybe persecute you less. You can go now."

[spock-in-awe]

a new measure for how unwell i am: Spock being turned into a rock and stumbling around naked and almost falling on top of Pike

[star-trek-fandom-confessions]

Re: many of the various about the Gorn or listing SNW's handling of the Gorn as one of its major problems.

Perception not matching reality, what is/is not a monster is a huge theme throughout SNW.

Ghost of Illyria – Those light monsters didn’t murder the Illyrians, they are the Illyrians and were trying to save Pike and Spock all along. Everyone (except Una ofc) learns a lesson that Illyrians can’t be lumped in with the Augments and need greater understanding Lift Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach – Turns out that nice lovely civilization is literally torturing children. The terrorists are actually trying to save those children. The Serene Squall – Surprise the counselor is a pirate Ad Astra Per Aspera – Continues with the Illyrians deserve understanding theme. Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow – That helpful reporter is actually a Romulan. Even notorious tyrant and mass murderer Khan Noonien Singh was once a scared child. Lost in Translation – Starfleet is the monster, accidentally torturing and killing a life form they didn't know existed. Under the Clock of War – Turns out the lovely ship’s doctor is actually the Butcher of J’Gal and capable of murdering someone in cold blood. War can make a monster of anyone.

Yet so many people seem to think they’re not going to pull something similar with the Gorn? Even though the show has taken time to establish that the Gorn are intelligent and have a religion?

The thing about the Gorn is that people have died - La’an’s family, Hemmer, some other members of the Enterprise crew, nearly the entire crew of the Cayuga, multiple colonies - and possibly Marie will be added to that list before the two-parter is done. That creates an environment where it’s understandable that the SNW characters would not want to have their perception that the Gorn are monsters challenged, because the harm they have caused is so personal.

It creates a really interesting conflict for the crew, because how do you find understanding, how to you fight the will for revenge, when there’s been so much pain?

I could be wrong about this being the route the SNW writers are going down, but I’m really excited to see if they do.

Posting this as a response to several earlier confessions.

[wowthesewomen]

Enterprise: Crew IV (not human or not born on Earth)

Illyria

Illyrian

Una Chin- Riley

Alpha I

Human

La'an Noonien-Singh

Vulcan, Alpha Quadrant

Vulcan

Spock

for some reason there were lots of Vulcans in the background in this episode. this frame a lone there are 4.

Andoria, Alpha Quadrant

Aenar

Hemmer

Andorian

don't know if the science sweatshirt is also an Andorian or another blue skin alien

Lanthanite

Pelia

Bolarus IX

Bolian

Ensign Zier

bartender

could be the same guy that was talking with the Andorian?

Tellar Prime, Alpha Quadrant

Tellarite - this guy is a recurrent background crew in both seasons

Denobula, Alpha Quadrant

Denobulans

Part I

Part II

Part III

[bumblingbabooshka]

T'Pring

[waitingintheskyyy]

The SNW comics

I've made a poll asking if anyone had read the comics and the result was mostly people not knowing those comics existed lol

So here are a few links cuz we don't gatekeep in this household

Star Trek: Strange New Worlds "The-Illyrian-Enigma"

Status-complete

Star Trek: Strange New Worlds "The Scorpius Run"

Status-Ongoing

Hope you find this useful ;)

[inkbotkowalski]

Aaaah Star Trek is making me cry again in a good way