#spoilers fires of heaven

[circleturk]

Just started Fires Of Heaven again

[sophthebof]

Started the Fires of Heaven and and so far this is my biggest takeaway

(Original tweet under cut)

[pillowfriends]

HELLO???????

Rand/Avi real??????????? also DRAGONS?????? but more importantly RAND HAD SEX??? WITH AVIENDHA?? DID I START READING A FANFIC ON ACCIDENT what theeee fuck. (positive)

[lunarcrystal]

Lute's Defeat

[i-am-a-fan]

So one head-canon turned into another and then another and then another an-

[bluenoisen]

now nearly done with The Fires of Heaven and do you guys REMEMBER this scene where Rand plays up his madness just to make Selande back off?? so so funny, this guy is nuts i love him

[butterflydm]

new s3 timeline thoughts

I never would have thought of starting our mains in Tar Valon in order to untangle the potential time-crunch for this season! If it does turn out to be the case (and it sounds like it is a distinct possibility: see @markantonys's post here: a few more tidbits), what a brilliant way to solve the Wondergirls continental yo-yo problem!

Because that's a huge part of why I doubted that we would see the Wondergirls in the White Tower this season, because I couldn't see how we would find the time for it. But if everyone goes back to Tar Valon via the Ways (to warn the Amyrlin about Liandrin being a Darkfriend), then we've re-centered everyone and they can go back out into their own plotlines more sensibly distributed. If the "two episodes in the wetlands before Rand goes to the Waste" is the same two episodes as "the Wondergirls go to the White Tower", then the time-crunch problem is solved.

Okay, the thoughts below contain spoilers for the new trailer, the reports of the new clips, and any other random spoilers like interview spoilers that might be floating around. Some of my speculation definitely overlaps with @markantonys

In the con-exclusive scenes that were aired, one of them was about Liandrin being publicly revealed as a Darkfriend and her escape from the White Tower. Briefly, this scene then cuts to Moiraine and Rand in the streets of a city. If this is the shot of Moiraine in the rain from the trailer, then they're in Tar Valon. This is supported by the interview at the recent con saying that our kiddos start out the season together.

So, I won't worry about the reasoning behind them all going back to Tar Valon right now, and I'll just do some thoughts based on the 'what if'.

It means they're likely saving the bulk of Rand learning politics until after he's already gone through everything with Rhuidean and the Waste (aka until s4 which, if it follows the pattern of s2 & s3, would have two focal episodes for our mains, and it would be Mat and Elayne's turn to have one each, which could really work for their respective arcs) and (since Moiraine is still wearing the clothes from the end of s2), they are going to be rushing away from Falme as quickly as they rushed there, and we are probably going to first see them in Tar Valon (or potentially in the Ways, but that can probably just be assumed, since Loial is with them).

Moiraine is leaning back into the plan that she wants to believe she can still make happen, the one that she made with Siuan back in the day -- where she finds and trains the Dragon while Siuan gets the White Tower ready to work with him (as opposed to imprisoning him). Now that Moiraine knows that Liandrin is a Darkfriend, she can take that information to Siuan (along with the info about the Seanchan) and prove to Siuan that she did not lose her way, that their original plan can still work. They damaged each other's trust in s2 but now she wants to rebuild it.

So, episode one is the reunion in Tar Valon, and the reveal of Liandrin as Black Ajah. Maybe this is also where Egwene and Elayne get rushed through their Accepted Tests by Siuan. Moiraine and Siuan get their romantic reunion. We might get our bubbles of evil here -- Rand destroying the mirror selves is I think what's in trailer when he has that burst of power. Maybe Lanfear making her offer to Rand to find him a teacher comes in here?

Episode two is where I think the rest of our Andorans will come in -- a cold open in Andor, introducing us to the royal family & to Elaida, and Galad and Gawyn coming to train as Warders in the White Tower aka to be Morgase's eyes to make sure her daughter doesn't disappear again (which she will). And Elaida becomes our Red Sister in the White Tower as Liandrin has left.

It seems likely that this will be our trigger point for our team to split up -- Perrin hears the rumors about the Two Rivers, and Nynaeve, Elayne, & Egwene guess that Liandrin is heading to Tanchico, while Rand decides that he needs to go to the Aiel Waste. Why doesn't Mat go with Rand? This is where I wonder if we get our doorway, and the questions, but he gets pointed towards Tanchico instead of the Waste, maybe? TSR is such a strong book for the Mat-Rand relationship, so I really hope we get some of that in the season.

Now, it may be that we have two episodes with the gang together before separation... or we might get three. In the books, Rand does pretty much get tossed into Rhuidean the second he arrives, and we know that Rhuidean is happening in episode four. So maybe they get three episodes together before the split.

Episode three may be when we get Egwene (originally planning to go with Nynaeve and Elayne to chase Liandrin) and Mat (originally planning to go to the Waste with Rand; or to the Two Rivers with Perrin) swapping paths. Mat gets information that points him towards Tanchico (this is based on earlier spoilers that place him there with Nynaeve, Elayne, Min and Thom), while Egwene meets Amys in TAR and decides she needs to go with Rand to the Waste.

At some point during these three episodes, I do suspect that Rand and Egwene will sort out the status of their relationship officially, and I do think we'll get some hints of potential feelings between Rand and Elayne.

Other book-based events we might get in this block of episodes:

Egwene and Elayne trying to 'teach' Rand channeling and failing, thus continuing to remind us all that Rand needs a proper teacher of some kind.

We're definitely getting Rand's bubble of evil. We might get Perrin's, since he picked up an axe last season to kill Daddy Bornhald. And we might get Mat's, giving us a chance to see Mat out and about in Tar Valon (having a streak of good luck?).

Since Galad and Gawyn are both (likely) going to be in the White Tower, this is our only chance to get Mat facing off against them, two on one.

Egwene meeting the brothers and feelings of some kind sparking.

We could get Elaida's prophecy about Rand, and the two of them meeting.

We know we're getting Lan & Nynaeve scenes, because Daniel has already talked them up a lot, saying that they need to catch up and go past where the characters were at during this time of the books (which would be Tear-era).

If we get any kind of indicator of blossoming feelings between Rand and Elayne, maybe we'll get the feathers scene (I would love that so much. I am so fond of the feathers scene and how Elayne keeps the feathers as something precious because Rand wanted to make them into flowers).

I do hope that some of the stuff from the Waste for Mat & Rand can somehow be transposed to these three episodes, since spoilers indicate that Mat will go to Tanchico instead of the Waste.

Episode four is Rhuidean -- Rand sees the past, while Moiraine sees the future. In the side plots, Perrin arrives in the Two Rivers, while Elayne, Nynaeve & Mat arrive in Tanchico (we might even skip them entirely and pick up with those two groups in ep5). A lot of what we saw in the trailer is probably coming from this episode. Rafe mentioned that Rand, Moiraine, and Egwene would all be in their own separate world for a whole episode, so I'll speculate that the episode c plot is Egwene doing Dreamwalker training while Rand and Moiraine are in Rhuidean.

Episodes five & six will probably give us more about the Two Rivers and Tanchico. We might get the coup in here, though that might be saved for the end of the season.

Book events we're possibly going to see:

We'll meet Lord Luc. We may see Brigitte and Uno in TAR as well.

Aviendha being assigned as the person to teach Rand the ways of the Aiel, and him accidentally flirting with her via regard gifts.

Either Egeanin, or Tuon taking on Egeanin's role in the storyline (which would be a good reason for Mat to go to Tanchico instead of the Waste!).

Episode seven is going to be the Battle of the Two Rivers, and probably Perrin's focus episode. If Rand and Moiraine's story climaxes happen in ep8, then we might get the Tanchico storyline climaxing here with Nynaeve's confrontation with Moghedien.

Episode eight is probably going to be Al Cair Dal, and the splitting of the Aiel into the faction following Rand, and the faction following Couladin, but I do think likely the second climax of the episode and the climax of the season as a whole will be Moiraine and Lanfear's confrontation over Rand's future, stealing that bit of TFoH for this season but saving the rest for when Mat comes back into Rand's story in s4. Basically both Moiraine and Lanfear being taken out of the picture so that Rand is going to have to travel the paths between light and shadow without either of them trying to influence him. Our end of season teaser might be the reveal that Asmodean placed the dragons on Couladin's arms.

(yes, this is me letting go of my 'reunion at the end of s3 hopes' lol. at least for now)

This leaves chasing down Couladin for the start of season 4, which would be an appropriate place to bring Mat back into Rand's story to kill Couladin and form the Band of the Red Hand. This is also when Elayne and Thom can come back into Rand's life to help teach him wetlander politics (with Moiraine gone). Given the pattern of the focus episodes, Mat and Elayne seem likely to get theirs in s4, because they're the only members of the core six not to get them yet.

[ofthebrownajah]

Moiraine: Balefire is bad, Rand. You shouldn't use it.

Rand: I've seen you use Balefire before.

Moiraine:...

Rand: ....

Moiraine: that's beside the point

[moonstarsandspacedust]

Desperately want an outside POV on the Rand + “Natael” situation. They spend hours together every night for “discussions”. What do people think they’re discussing? Do people honestly think he’s teaching Rand the flute or something? How many of the Maidens think they’re fucking?

[gl00mytuesday]

she’s so baby girl coded

[jpiercecreative]

“If you are not mine…then you are DEAD!!!”

💃🏻☠️

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Lanfear fan art /// scene from #wheeloftimebook5 : #thefiresofheaven — (((created with Midjourney + Photoshop + Illustrator))) // imagined by #wheeloftimeanimated

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[halcyon-autumn]

So pretty early on in The Fires of Heaven, our boy Mat hands a necklace to one of the Maidens to impress her, not realizing that giving a gift like that as a close as a dude can come in Aiel culture to proposing. Which means. This guy. Has not one but TWO accidental proposals under his belt. Incredible writing decision, no notes, RJ really said “I will explore cultural differences by making Matrim Cauthon get accidentally engaged as many times as possible” and that was the best possible choice

[the-oaken-muse]

I watched Good Omens for the first time last week, so I'm a bit late to the party, but I wanted to talk a little bit about the Metatron's offer to Aziraphale.

On my initial watch, I definitely got "Azula tricking Zuko to come back to the Fire Nation" vibes and after a few rewatches as well as a refresher on that episode of ATLA, the parallels are even stronger.

First we have the Metatron and Azula:

They both show up suddenly with grand promises, telling Aziraphale and Zuko exactly what they want to hear. You can come Home. You can come back to Heaven, and so can Crowley. We need you. We want you.

They both emphasize that they are delivering good news, really hyping it up. They are so kind and understanding. Take all the time you need.

But at the same time that they are warm to their target, they show open disdain to their closest ally when their backs are turned.

Next, we have Aziraphale and Zuko:

At this point, Zuko still believes in the vision of the Fire Nation, he believes that they are honorable and right in what they do, and Aziraphale believes that Heaven is the epitome of goodness, truth, and light. The word "indoctrination" comes to mind. They've both been burned by the people they look up to, but are blinded by their ideals.

They're extremely loyal to their side, and there's more than a little denial at play. When Crowley and Iroh express distrust and a desire not to go, they get defensive, they lash out. You don't know, you don't understand.

Finally, we have Crowley and Iroh:

They truly care for Aziraphale and Zuko. They're always there for them and would do just about anything to protect them.

They are a bit more worldly than their companions and are suspicious of the Metatron and Azula's intentions. In our family, things aren't always what they seem. Heaven and Hell are both toxic.

They both receive the same invitation to join the others, to go Home, to go to Heaven, even though the main focus is on Aziraphale and Zuko. The parallels diverge with these two, however: while Azula doesn't really care whether or not her uncle joins them, as long as she gets Zuko, Crowley was never meant to accept the offer. The Metatron draws Aziraphale away from Crowley to talk, they are separated as soon as possible, and a wedge driven between them.

At first, Iroh wasn't going to go, but changed his mind at the last minute. Crowley does not change his mind.

With how similar these two scenes are, I can't help but speculate on what this means for Good Omens. Is this just an elaborate way of kidnapping Aziraphale? Are the angels taking pointers from their last attempt and taking a more subtle, calculated approach this time?

Do they actually want Aziraphale on their side or are they just trying to get him out of the way?

[pillowfriends]

every chapter recently has just been insane. sex igloo. dragons exist. Elayne can make ter’angreal. Liandrin is shielded. Elayne bonded Birgitte. Nynaeve is passively suicidal. did I mention the dragons in Seanchan. Robert let me rest

[tildeathiwillwrite]

(WoT Book 5 Spoilers) It's a closer fight than you might think.

[ineffectualbookseller]

there is something to be said for how much the Metatrons' offer of restoring Crowley to an angel changed things for Aziraphale, even beyond the face value of the offer

Azirphale eventually (and reluctantly) accepts the promotion under the presumption that he will be able to change heaven - "if I'm in charge, I can make a difference."

and obviously, Muriel and Jim/Gabriel are two key narrative players to show us why Aziraphale would think heaven can still be reformed - Muriel who was unbelievably lonely in heaven and, despite all their ineptitude, is so excited to experience earth for the first time (the fondness in Aziraphale's face during their scene together in the bookshop is so touching) - and Jim/Gabriel who Aziraphle once knew to be cold, unsympathetic, and remorseless but after having the memories and influences of heaven stripped away turns out to be helpful, curious, and self-sacrificing (we see Aziraphale come to terms with this change over the season, telling Jim in e2 that he's really not sure if he's still terrible but when Crowley is questioning Jim in e5, Aziraphale's sure he's just being silly)

but even after witnessing this, Azirphale isn't jumping at the offer to run heaven. He says so point blank, "I don't want to go back to heaven," but everything changes when he gets the offer to restore Crowley as an angel

and clearly, Aziraphale is so excited by the face-value offer, he and Crowley would be safe and they'd be together, and Crowley would never be punished for doing good again. Just look at his happy little hands when he's asking Crowley to pause his confession so he can share his own great news. He's beyond thrilled to be able to offer this to Crowley, to live this life with Crowley (before he realizes it's not a life that Crowley wants - those happy hands are devastating in hindsight)

so if bringing Crowley to heaven with him was the selling point, why is he still going after Crowley says no? Because in Aziraphale's eyes, the power to restore Crowley is the power to correct heaven's mistakes. So heaven can make mistakes - Aziraphale thinks the Metatron just admitted that heaven is fallible

that is HUGE

(this is also not what the Metatron was saying - but in this context what Metatron said doesn't matter, only what Aziraphale heard)

and this isn't just coming from some angel - the Metatron is the voice of God. The closest thing to speaking to God we have witnessed since 2500 BCE in the Job minisode (the most recent evidence of God speaking directly to a character). Regardless of where God actually is during this story, Azirphale would be taking the Metatron's word as the word of God

Aziraphale has been acting against what heaven says God wants since the beginning: giving away his sword in Eden to protect Adam and Eve from their punishment (which he then lies to God about but is still allowed to stay on Earth), lying to save Job's children and openly question God's role in the plan ("I… I don’t think… that is what God wants"), and of course stopping Armageddon with his Great Plan vs Ineffible Plan pedantry (and before this, his plan for most of s1 is to get in contact with someone higher than Gabriel because of course, God wouldn't actually want this) - and when he is finally found out, Gabriel and Michael cut his ties with heaven

but now might-as-well-be-God is walking into his bookshop and scolding the middle managers and saying they've been fucking up. And he tells Aziraphale that they were wrong about him and they were wrong about Crowley and Aziraphale's the one that's been in the right

(keep in mind that Aziraphale does not know that the Metatron has been on the same subcommittees as the archangels - after Michael and Uriel don't recognize him, he's probably assuming they have very little contact)

if Corwley falling was a mistake maybe everything else Aziraphale has been internally questioning is too. If heaven can make mistakes than something has been going wrong in heaven - a fault in operations not in design - there must something to fix

Aziraphale is a being of faith and he carries such guilt for questioning that faith. The idea that the Metraton is acknowledging a mistake must be such a balm to him

It's really no wonder he thinks he can change heaven after that offer