#specifically liandrin

[fleetwoodsnakk]

big vibes for 2025

[moghedien]

watching a reaction to episode 4 from non-readers and one of them said they wanted Liandrin to "get Moirained" and I'm just like....well

and then the other guy said she'd probably kill herself if that happened and I'm just like....welllllllllll

[girlonthelasttrain]

once again I'm asking... where is my multiple-seasons White Tower politics show

[butterflydm]

Fractures in the Aes Sedai (WoT 3x01 cold open)

How incredibly heartbreaking all this is for Siuan.

I'm going to focus in this post on the reactions from our Aes Sedai and Warders, and just what a tragedy this day ends up being for Siuan, who thought that she was ahead of the game (I really see why they named this episode "To Race the Shadow").

This is show-focused and I am going to avoid anything that hasn't been revealed in the show, at least in this specific post, though I am going to talk a bit about some backstory that was brought up back in s1.

It's clear from the way that this was arranged that Siuan didn't think any of the Sitters were Black Ajah (any of the non-Red Sitters). I think that she's been thinking of the Black Ajah as a Red Ajah problem, and probably has been leaning in that direction that for a few years, or however long ago it was that she first heard whispers that the Red Ajah were gentling men without trials.

Because that's a Dragon Reborn hunt.

This is something that was revealed to us back in the first season - the audience has it confirmed for us on-screen -- that Liandrin and other Red Sisters were hunting down men and gentling them without bringing them back to the White Tower for trial. They did it to Thom's nephew, as he told Mat and Rand, and Moiraine and Lan watched them do it to another poor man while they were on their way to the Two Rivers.

And I think that Siuan's belief that the Black Ajah was centered in the Red Ajah has driven some of the factionalism that has been developing over the past few years (and that the Black Ajah surely encouraged). She's been thinking like a Blue, not like the Amyrlin. Because she was never actually Amyrlin because she believed in the job and duty -- she was Amyrlin as part of her plan with Moiraine, to guide the Tower to work with the Dragon instead of trying to cage him. She was an Amyrlin in service to her cause, not in service to her daughters and the White Tower.

We don't know how long this plan to catch Liandrin has been in the making (it's been one month since Falme) -- we walk in on the last few moments before the trap springs. What's made clear is that Siuan was briefed on the important events, about Liandrin and the Black Ajah (as much as Moiraine & co knew), about the Seanchan, and about Rand. I'm guessing this information was transmitted via Nynaeve, who probably volunteered, since she knew the most about Liandrin and to save Egwene & Elayne from needing to be witnesses in Liandrin's trial.

Siuan brought in other sisters that she was likely told by Nynaeve that Moiraine had said they could trust -- Verin and Alanna -- and also entrusted Leane with the plan.

They keep the Red Ajah Sitters out of the Hall, but want the rest of the Sitters there to see Liandrin exposed. Alanna, Leane, and Siuan were prepared for something of a fight, but the magnitude of the Black Ajah infiltration into their Halls was something they were deeply unprepared for. They weren't just facing Liandrin, but several other Sisters, from every single Ajah (including Blue).

I've seen some book-reader youtube reactors wonder why Ihvon and Maksim thought they would be of any use in an Aes Sedai vs Aes Sedai fight but... no one in the White Tower is used to AS vs AS fights! It doesn't happen! The one group of people who do go out and regularly fight other people who can channel are the Reds, and they're usually facing people who have only recently come into their power and can't do much. Against the sort of dangers that Alanna normally faces, Ihvon and Maksim can be helpful. They're there to watch her back while she channels.

And that goes for the non-Black Ajah Sisters as well - they are not prepared to use the Power against other Sisters (and they're limited by the Oaths as well). It takes them time to react once they realize what's actually going on because this is so far out of the sphere of what they're expecting.

It's a brand new world for all of the Aes Sedai now.

Okay, taking a step back and starting from the top. We start with the springing of the trap for Liandrin - Moiraine and Lan wait and watch on the outside, while Leane lets Siuan know that things are ready. The robe that Siuan is wearing here is gorgeous btw (all the clothes are SO gorgeous).

Our first dynamic is the three Reds, assuming that Liandrin is being unfairly targeted by the Amyrlin, and who assure Liandrin that they are on her side "no matter the charges". Given that all three of these Aes Sedai are confirmed NOT Black Ajah by the events that follow, this would not have actually been true, but it tells us the general vibe of the Red Ajah in the Tower. Now, something that I'm wondering is if any of these Red Ajah Sisters are aware that Liandrin has been gentling men without bringing them in for trial -- would they see that as extreme but necessary or would they disapprove?

At the same time as this, Verin and Adelas are traveling with Nyomi to unlock the 13th Depository -- now it seems that both Verin and Adelas are aware of their destination, with it being Nyomi's first visit (she thought it was a myth -- or so she claims here, but we do find out later that she was lying and this was her goal today). Verin and Adelas were both in semi-retirement and have been around for a long time. Is that how they know about the 13th Depository? The secret must get passed down -- maybe between the highest levels of the Brown Ajah?

Now Alanna heads towards the Hall and she is walking with purpose (to battle). She is one of the few people who knows what Siuan will be revealing today. Maksim worries that others are working with Liandrin and maybe she needs more backup but she tells him & Ihvon that they need to stay outside -- no men unless authorized. We see the three Yellow Sitters enter in a clump and see the White Ajah Sitters talking to some other White Ajah Sisters. Alanna assures them that Siuan "has a plan" -- which appears to be not letting the rest of the Red Ajah Sitters in with Liandrin. Again, going back to Siuan having the assumption that the Red Ajah is the source of the problem.

You can understand why -- at this point, Siuan only has confirmation that there is a single Darkfriend among the Aes Sedai, and she has a history of the Red Ajah acting beyond the bounds of their authority. She is deeply and painfully wrong, but I understand why she made the assumptions that she did.

"Only eleven Sitters are required by tradition" - that's the reasoning that Leane gives for excluding the Red Sitters from the Hall right now. That is a deep insult to give to the Red Sitters, who get shut away from the action just the same as the non-Sitters and the Warders, which had to sting.

On a rewatch, I notice that the camera makes sure to let us see each of the eventually-revealed Black Ajah Sitters as they enter the Hall.

The smug grin that Alanna gives Liandrin as they all walk in hurts on a rewatch. They were so certain that they had a handle on the situation and that they were about to nip this problem in the bud before it became unmanageable. Not knowing that it is all too late.

Once again, I really love the variety in the costuming of the Aes Sedai! There are just so many amazing outfits of all different kinds!

Both Alanna and Leane look towards Siuan as Liandrin lays out her case against Siuan -- neither of them look surprised, but they are keeping an eye on the situation and waiting for Siuan's cue. We cut to various short snippets of the Sitters gossiping about this, with the Black Ajah Sisters right in the mix of the gossip and doing a great job looking "concerned" over the "revelations".

Siuan lets us know here that if Liandrin had been able to prove her accusations -- that Siuan let a male channeler (one who has now declared himself the Dragon Reborn) walk free -- then she could face censure from the Hall, and possibly be deposed. This is something that Moiraine and Siuan also talked about back in s1 -- about how if the White Tower found out about their secret plans to find the Dragon Reborn but disobey Tower law when it came to handling him, that they would be stilled. In this instance, Siuan is able to swat the accusations away by declaring Liandrin a Darkfriend who is capable of breaking the Three Oaths, but she doesn't actually deny the accusations. She avoids them.

I am fascinated by the Yellow Sitter who laughs after Siuan declares that Liandrin is a Darkfriend and who seems to think all of this is a game, because she's not one of those who gets revealed as Black Ajah. Does she survive? I'm going to try to keep an eye out. (update: I think I see her on the ground after the initial attack, so she might be dead; she's definitely not the Yellow who healed Liandrin or the one who healed Siuan)

Once Nynaeve shows up and Liandrin realizes that Nynaeve was able to escape from the Seanchan, she knows that the game is up (we actually see her take a couple of steps back as Nynaeve enters the room). There's no point. If Nynaeve's account gets doubted, she can just take the Oath against lying and say it again. Nynaeve no longer being a prisoner of the Seanchan means that Liandrin's goose is cooked and it's time to change tactics.

Now the shredding begins.

When Liandrin initially tries to attack, Alanna is right there with a counter, since she was prepared for an attack. But their attention is 100% on Liandrin, who they believe is the only threat.

Given that Nyomi was working on finding a way into the 13th Depository (confirmed at the ending of the scene), Liandrin was definitely planning to flee at some point in the near future (probably with Jeaine and Chesmal), but maybe not with any Sitters, as having Black Ajah Sitters in the Hall would be a useful thing. But once Siuan threatens to still Liandrin and find out from her all the rest of the Black Ajah, their own covers are threatened, and they exchange glances and spring into action when Liandrin asks for aid.

There are four Sitters who stand up to defend Liandrin -- Yellow, White, Gray (Joiya), and Blue. We do have semi-confirmed names for the Blue Sitter, but it hasn't been said on-screen yet, so I won't say. But Joiya was one of the sisters who was in Cairhien last season.

When Liandrin calls out "Join me", you can see the shock on Siuan's face. She 100% believed that all of the non-Red Sitters were trustworthy. This is not just a Red Ajah problem.

Yellow-Black Sitter and White-Black Sitter immediately stand up and attack, and Leane moves to defend Siuan. Blue-Black and Gray-Black (Joiya) are the next to stand up to attack and now Alanna must shift her focus away from Liandrin and towards the new threats. So Siuan is now the only person focusing on holding Liandrin's shield.

The rest of the Sitters are pretty fucking stunned, as you would imagine. Nothing like this has ever happened before, so they are slow to react, as the Black Ajah Sitters now turn and attack their fellow Sitters.

One attack leaves one of the White Ajah Sitters covered in blood. One of the Brown Sitters is cut in half. Nynaeve tries to channel but can't get past her block. And the Blue-Black Sitter brings down part of the wall (it looks like she's trying to get Nynaeve).

So the rest of the Sisters who were previously out in the hallways in front of the Hall have left, but the Warders were still hanging around and are now trying to get inside. The three Red Ajah sisters from earlier try to get past them to get inside the Hall but Maksim and Ihvon are still assuming that the danger of the Black Ajah is entwined with the Red Ajah, and refuse them entry. And this is a place where the Red Ajah not having any kind of relationship with the Warders makes it so much harder for these two groups to find the common ground to help each other.

Joiya is able to get Siuan to drop her shield on Liandrin by using the Power to just chuck a huge-ass piece of rock at her. That's one way to do it! And both Liandrin and Siuan fall to the ground injured, and we get a neat moment where we see both of them getting healed by a Yellow Sitter.

Jeaine (and her two Warders) and Chesmal show up. Green and Yellow. Maksim recognizes them and greets them as allies but is soon disabused of the belief, and the two of them have gone mask off and aren't pretending anymore. They are ready to get out of here. Jeaine kills one of the Red Sisters, then her two Warders are killed and we see her disturbing reaction to feeling their deaths, and Maksim and Ihvon realize that it's Jeaine and Chesmal who are the Black Ajah Sisters.

At the end of this part of the scene, we do still have one Red Ajah sister standing against Jeaine and Chesmal.

Inside the 13th Depository, Nyomi reveals herself as Black Ajah and attacked Verin and Adelas with something that appears targeted at their minds -- Verin does seem to do something that helps counter it, but Adelas takes the full brunt and it appears to affect her memory (she doesn't recognize her sister). Then Nyomi loots the 13th Depository, taking several of the ter'angreal.

Leane takes down the White-Black sister, caving her head in with her staff, pretty brutally. Joiya gets knocked down by Alanna but is able to get back up.

After being healed by their respective Yellow sisters, Siuan and Liandrin face each other again, and Liandrin links with her three surviving Black Ajah sisters and creates a boom in the hall to open themselves an exit, while Leane and Alanna act to protect Siuan.

Liandrin's crew then all heads towards the docks. They meet up with Nyomi, who confirms that she got a specific thing they were looking for and "anything else I could carry".

I do think it's possible that at least one of the Red Sisters survived here, since we know that Maksim and Ihvon both survived and they were also in the hallway when it blew, but we will see! Yes, we see their bodies but, you know, they could be unconscious! Live in hope!

A very traumatic day for all involved, and it isn't over yet! We don't get a final death count in this video, but several of the Sitters are still alive and moving at the end.

Looking at the line-up of Black Ajah that we have at the end... Joiya is missing but so is the Yellow Sitter who stood up to defend Liandrin (there's a Yellow there, but she's Chesmal, who arrived with Jeaine). So Joiya and the Yellow-Black Sitter are doing something else. What are those two up to?

[wafflelovingbatgirl]

Also also also… Suian doesn’t call for/allow a full consensus of the Hall, only allowing 11 Sitters She specifically bars the Red Ajah & doesn’t deny any of Liandrin’s accusations.

Elaida’s got an opening for troublemaking. 11 is the minimum for a consensus, after all.

[markantonys]

new wording from rafe on the reasoning for moving mat to tanchico: in the waste mat would have felt like "an appendage to rand's story" but in tanchico "he gets to have his own POV in the story, he gets to have his own emotional arc, he has new characters to interact with"

poor mat crying in the corner because all he wants is to be an appendage to rand's story djkfjg born to be a sidekick but forced to be a main character! the mention of mat having new characters to interact with in tanchico absolutely could have meant just elayne and nynaeve since they are new characters in terms of mat interactions, but i can't help but think it might be a hint to brand-new tanchico-based characters (i.e. tuon, or some other seanchan at least) that mat gets to interact with. rafe also did start this sentence by saying this was "a big part of the reason" for moving mat, so maybe not the WHOLE reason for moving him! and mat having his own emotional arc in tanchico certainly does make it sound like there's a mat-specific story being told there, not just him tagging along with the nynaeve story of hunting liandrin and moggy (and a mat-specific story that isn't solely the finn trip, since he would've had that story in the waste storyline too, so that alone wouldn't explain why tanchico offered him a greater individual emotional arc).

we have seen VERY little from the tanchico storyline so far, just non-specific shots that show off the ambience, and ryma is reported to be returning but wasn't present either during the shredding or during the falme group's tar valon inn scene, which could mean she didn't get freed by the gang in falme and is still with the seanchan. so i really think there's going to be a seanchan presence of some kind in tanchico (as is the case in the book) which they want to be a surprise and that's why they're being so careful not to show off much of the tanchico trip, and if there's a seanchan presence in tanchico and mat and min are both going there, it feels almost wasteful for that presence to not include tuon. but only time will tell! mat and min at least meeting a general seanchan character like egeanin would still be helpful for their future, but tuon would be the most helpful.

[queenofmalkier]

Moiraine being 70 vs 40

(Alright this one took me a minute because corralling my thoughts is a challenge in the best of times.)

To begin with I will admit... I am one of the people who was indifferent towards the age change in the beginning. They're Aes Sedai, they live nice, long lives, and I wasn't like, emotionally attached to a younger, canon-aged Moiraine. It does make her early years more poignant, but I'll touch on that later.

Primed for older Moiraine, the show started and after two seasons I can safely say I am so gung-ho for 70 year old Moiraine I might actually be feral.

Here's why I, personally, think it was an excellent choice: Rosamund Pike is 44 as of writing this, so she visibly fits into the book age. As an audience nobody is really questioning her age - a few show-onlys I watched season 1 with actually remarked on how refreshing it was to see an older female character allowed to just exist and be part of the narrative without trying to sex up and/or grandma-ize the role.

Little Did They Know.

So you've got an audience that's mostly accepting of this character being in her 40s, and then you hit them with "Oh she's 70 and lets explore just how horrific that fact actually is together, it'll be fun!"

It was not fun, it was gutting.

One of my main critiques of the book has always been how we have these long-lived women, powerful women... but we never really take much of a look at the reality of that concept. Nor are we given POV characters who are really old enough to remark on it. Pevara at least thinks about her family, but Cadsuane doesn't give two figs about hers.

And here's the thing... they're Aes Sedai, but they're still human. What happens to them as they get older, but the people who fill their life are the ones aging? How does it feel to watch a mother, a sister, a child, friends, acquaintances, EVERYONE succumb to time in a way you won't for a very long time after?

That has to be impactful and I wanted to see those stories - and the show delivered. Seeing Moiraine with Anvaere? Chilling, horrifying, heartbreaking. Liandrin and her boy? A kick in the teeth. Even Alanna with her family, knowing very well she's probably the oldest one sitting at that table.

The point is, being an Aes Sedai means being powerful and respected, but it also means living through a very specific kind of suffering and trauma. They're basically vampires in terms of lifespan and we should see how that shapes them.

In regards to Moiraine being older and therefore not basically a child during the foretelling, it does change that particular hit... but by no means did the show let the viewers not understand how that moment altered Moiraine's life forever.

Instead of her being sort of an unformed girl hardened and honed by a lifetime of searching for Rand, one who never got much chance to be anything else, we get a woman who was already beginning to build her life, who had achieved the shawl, found love, and was exactly where she wanted to be.

And then all of that is taken from her.

It's devastating to watch the double-barreled whammy of Siuan and Moiraine giggling about being fishwives and walking into what was in many ways their deaths. Because the Moiraine and Siuan they were before walking into that room were gone forever. They would never be able to go back to the women they were before. They never even had a chance to mourn that loss. Moiraine went hunting and Siuan set her sights on the Amyrlin Seat.

I do understand for a lot of people her age is a sticking point, and that is completely fair and valid! It's a change that I fully agree did not need to be made... but by making that change we're given such a stark insight into the lives of older Aes Sedai who are just beginning to experience what it means to outlive everyone they know, watching one by one as cherished friends and family members pass on.

Soon all they have left are the children and grandchildren of those people, fractured mirrors that are just enough of a hint at the original that it must be painful to know them - which explains even further why so many Aes Sedai cut off contact entirely with their families. It's too painful to keep them in their lives.

[emylilas]

Ladies of WOT - a potential community ?

Hello fellow WOT show enjoyers!

I am deliberately not tagging the show because I am aiming for a very specific demographic. Among those who watch WOT and are talking about it in different spaces (discord, twitter, here), I've noticed that people are having very different experiences watching the show, depending on what they want the focus to be on; to the point it might sometimes feel like we're in very different fandoms.

I realise the show is a book adaptation and I understand why people would expect more attention to be given to Rand, or Perin, or Mat, because those are the names who often come back, rather than some of the Aes Sedai who aren't as fleshed out in the book (I'm looking at you, my beloved Liandrin), but I have no interest in developing a sense of community with people who are watching the show for very different reasons than I.

I am absolutely not here for the men of the show, it's fine if you are, good for you but don't come at me. There are some men whose stories I enjoy following, but I'm here for the aes sedai, the forsakens (I can't wait to really meet Moghedien next season), the younger girls, the seanchans... and I would very much love to be able to share my love for the show and those characters, and to enjoy the show with people who share a similar enthusiasm.

Here's my issue, though, I find it hard to build a sense of community on Tumblr, interactions are limited by a very poor comment section, which is a shame.

I don't believe Twitter should be the main place for fandoms, because there's no room for in-depth conversations and everything has to be done quickly, It's more about posting and liking than engaging together.

I enjoy Dreamwidth and it would be, I think, a lovely place to build a community (besides, there is some WOT content over there) but I know it's not the most popular place, and it works more as a forum, which might lack the spontaneity of conversations.

Then there's Discord, and I am conflicted about Discord, on the one hand, it's convenient to chat and it can be well organised, on the other hand... I have wandered on quite a few fandom servers and they weren't for me, except for one. They're usually too crowded and I found that, in some places, the conversations are overwhelming in quantity but there aren't any real discussions.

As for that ONE server that worked for me, that one is quite special. You see, it's a small fandom of a show with a lot of wasted potential, but it's also the best fandom I've had the pleasure to join. People really interact, most of us know each other at least vaguely, we have a general idea of what are people's likes and dislikes, even when they aren't people we've chatted a lot with, and the mods always come up with fabulous events to keep the community living and it does keep on living, even after the show got cancelled in 2022. This discord doesn't have that many people in it, we talk a lot about the show, we also talk about specific characters, talk about ships in their dedicated channels, chat about our progress in our fic/gif/edits and support each other... people are interacting and we're all loving it. And those same people participate in fandom events because what unites us, even if we don't love the same characters or ships, is our love for that same show.

This is this sense of community built on the common love for a show and its potential that I would like to find for WOT, and more specifically in this case, about the women of WOT (but of course, talks about the show as a whole are always welcome and encouraged, it's just that watching with a preference for the female characters really change the conversations ones might have...) Especially with the new season coming in March, with all those new intriguing women that joined the cast, it would be lovely to have our little corner somewhere to chat together, as a small part of a bigger fandom, rather than individuals floating in the big WOT show tag and struggling to connect.

(And maybe those places already exist and I just haven't found them yet and I'm the only one struggling to connect. In this case, if you know places, please fill me in, I am dying to connect with fellow ladies of WOT lovers.)

So I guess that's it. I would love for us to get a chance to better connect, as show lovers (book readers are welcome, but please, be really mindful of spoilers, I am sick of being spoiled things even though I muted tags because people believe using emojis to talk is good enough to prevent spoilers, like we don't have functioning brains enough to put 2 and 2 together...).

To sum up my wish list: I wish we, those of us with similar interests (I don't care which women you enjoy in WOT, I love them all and they're all interesting, even if I have my own preferences I will gladly chat about any of them with you), could create a little corner in this big fandom so we can start acting as a community rather than separated individuals scrolling through tags. But a community who takes its time, to have nice little chats about the show and its women, to discuss our ideas and hypothesis, to share our thoughts and headcanons about our favourite ships (and yes, please, let it be plural and not just one ship) and characters, to support each other's in our writing, drawing, giffing, editing... all that, free of the drama that too often seem to happen in fandoms. A little place where we could always find someone who's up to chat a little about the show, and its women.

(Little place, because I really think once you're over 100 persons in a discord server (and probably less) it becomes nearly impossible to really get this feeling of a community).

So I'd love to know your interest in building such a place, and where you think it would be the most convenient for you!

[forest-posts-and-reblogs]

Trigger Warning: mentions suicide

For those of you who aren't in the right frame of mind to read this, I will be giving a summary at the end of this part.

-------------------------------------------------------

Batman: Explain.

Red Robin: So I found him standing at the edge of a roof a couple of weeks ago and thought he was going to jump. I wasn't busy at the moment, so I decided to talk to him and convince him not to jump. But he heard me and was surprised and fell off, and I wasn't able to catch him in time. I didn't find a pulse, but then he spoke to me. I thought he was a Talon but after spying on him and talking to him, I have concluded that he is a regular civilian who just happens to be a ghost.

Batman: You should have told me. Talon activity is on the rise.

Batman: I'm benching you for two weeks.

Red Robin: That's not fair!

Batman: Those are the consequences for not sharing important information. *turns to Danny* I have some questions to ask you.

Danny: Yeah no Imma take a rain check on that.

Danny: *grabs Red Robin, turns intangible and invisible and escapes*

Batman: Red Robin!

Oracle: I'll go through the cameras and try to find them.

Batman: Everyone, I want you to be on the lookout for this man. He has kidnapped Red Robin, is a meta and may be working for the Court of Owls. It is as of yet unclear whether or not he is a Talon.

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Summary: Tim explains to Batman what's been happening for the past few weeks, and is benched for two weeks for not sharing relevant information. Batman then attempts to interrogate Danny, who kidnaps Tim and runs away. Batman informs the other Bats about this and basically Danny now has an army of Bats gunning for him.

Parts 1-6 Part 7 Part 8 Part 9 Part 10 Masterlist

Since the tag list is getting pretty long, I will stop tagging people starting from the next update. However, don't worry! For those of you who haven't noticed, I always use a very specific tag for this fic. It is called 'tim's talon diaries' and all you have to do is follow it to get updates. I will also be creating a masterlist for this fic, so all you have to do is click the notification bell in the notes for that post and you will receive notifications whenever I update it.

[Tag List Under The Cut]

@mur-ururu @heirxofxtime @kisatamao @gin2212 @robinmedea @meira-3919 @idfk-man10 @dannyphantomphan @aveInfear @amercurio @i-always-say-yea @thegatorsgoose @bianca-hooks123 @lady-time-lord- @sjrose1216 @akikkobara @pheonixdemonqueen @oddessy @rosecinnamonbun @observethevoid @awkwardmaiden @thenerdycupcake @bun-fish @ambiguouslyominous @smilingfox22-blog @andsatisfactionbroughtmeback @seraphinedemort @yodeler12 @liandrin @basementloser @onlyhereforthechaos @terzatheunderscorerima @kittenline @numbuh-7-knd @joseph557 @chaos-n-kindness @vythika96 @starlightcat04 @thatonegirl10 @plz-excuse-my-inner-gay @mynameisdoofthelizardandamlesbi @greenmuffinofdoom @mj-arts-n-stuff @stargirl1331 @my-nameis-apollo-kid-number7 @gender-theif @oterion @derpxp @lyra689 @bruh-incoming @ramdonmess @m0re-pan-than-peter @yjfk @learning-to-fly-on-my-own @omgnectarina @sailor-goddess @blackrabbitt3t @rangerhorsetug @countessdragon @why-must-i-be-like-this @markus209 @spoopyspoony @edgyboi10000 @cat-in-a-fedora @space-dreams-world @mossy-bonez @anonymousf28 @v-inari @joyfulcollectordreamland @littlecameron @treepainting @adorablechaos @idkmrpianoman @amyheart19 @we-ezer @everest-nightshade @succ-my-coke @itsnekocanada3 @fandomwanderer @pyscoaces21 @kjoboo91 @nappinginhwll @redhoneysugarorange @asrielstars @undead-essence @willakk @love-has-no-labels @catostrofiqu @teeth-taste-nice @michikoy-yuki @09shell-sea09 @56thingsinaname @aph-mable

[moghedien]

this has book spoilers

I only have one solid theory/idea from the trailer and its that we're NOT getting the coup this season but they want us to think they are/are setting it up

this shot very clearly wants to hint at it, but I'm fairly certain that this is Liandrin and Lanfear, NOT Elaida and Alviarin. And its probably in TAR. I'm pretty sure a lot of this trailer is in TAR or is weird Rhudiean visions

and since we all but know for certain that Elaida has been cast and who is playing her, we can rule out the "They're making Liandrin into Elaida" theories

And then we have this shot of Liandrin, which I'm guessing is in Tanchico since pretty much everyone in this shot has a veiled face. They all also appear to be women, there are at least ten different people that can be seen and you can see large rings on some of them. So I'm guessing its the 13 Black Sisters that fled White Tower after committing crimes that include theft and murder!

And while some are garbed in what might be Tanchico fashion, some clearly aren't, which makes sense for a group of Aes Sedai of different origins who may have very different opinions on adopting the local fashion versus doing whatever they want

Then we also have this shot of Moghedien and she is clearly with Liandrin who is dressed similarly and in a similiar location to the previous screen shot, but I'm pretty sure this is a separate scene due to Liandrin's hair. And we know that Moghedien takes control of Liandrin's group in Tanchico after being undercover as a maid for them for a while.

Given Liandrin's reaction, if there is an undercover period, I'm guessing that this is after she takes control and reveals herself.

But they didn't flee in the show yet and Liandrin is with Lanfear in the first shot so how does this make sense?

Well let's look at these other shots that very clearly what us to think "coup"

Alanna and her warders fighting in the streets of what appears to be Tar Valon. It seems like it might be coup moments and all but later we get this shot

its very clearly the same scene and very clearly only Alanna and Liandrin fighting.

So I don't think this is the coup. I think this is Liandrin fleeing Tar Valon after being given orders by Lanfear which included the Black Sisters leaving as well and eventually ending up in Tanchico

And the orders either fail or they proceed to get ignored by Lanfear because she's too busy homoerotically chocking out Moiraine in the desert or something and when its clear Lanfear is distracted, Moghedien comes in to try to take control of Liandrin's group and the White Tower

which makes sense because we can assume that the role of Mesaana is being taken up by another Forsaken or maybe divided between Lanfear and Moghedien. And it also makes sense because in the books, Moghedien only takes control of the group because they were basically abandoned by whoever was initially giving them orders and it became a point of confusion that Moghedien started focusing them on conflicting matters to what they were originally tasked to do.

so basically, I don't think the coup is happening this season. I think the coup is going to be set up this season, but they are very specifically not showing certain faces or events in relation to this. I think that early in the season, Liandrin and her Black Ajah group are going to cause whatever this is in the White Tower and flee to Tanchico, and based on the voice over we hear from Siuan, I think its her sending off the girlies to hunt them for sport after this happens. but I think if the coup does happen this season, its gonna be a fucking cliffhanger for the last episode lmao

[divorceblogger]

spoilers for ep7 below the cut, beware that I discuss power balances, abuse and assault with book spoilers. I mostly discuss siuan, moiraine, rand, lan and elaida.

sooo much discourse about siuan and it’s personally very disturbing that people think it’s alright for the show to radically deviate from her established characterisation* (1. which is specifically, purposefully IN CONTRAST to elaida in the books 2. violates its own canon about siuan trusting Dreams, foretellings and prophecies wrt to the dragon more fervently than moiraine herself) or that she was reaping the consequences of her actions when she was deposed in tsr, ignoring how siuan isn’t unique in keeping secrets as an aes sedai or how gawyn and galad are intentionally treated like spoiled, privileged children who think they’re cleverer than they really are when they act without considering the consequences of their actions or how the books frame the whole sequence as a tragedy of errors on all sides. I’m pretty sure @/amemoryofwot made the breakdown on the black ajah to non black ajah sisters in the hall and it was very revelatory about the exact significance of the stakes set up against siuan. I also think it’s important to not ignore the gender dimension involved in the way people approach rand and mat as opposed to moiraine or egwene or siuan - male characters are always better tolerated when they make morally questionable choices while women are systemically taken apart and derided for being foolish.

that said. it’s very telling that the show is solely interested in moiraine almost to a fault; we’ve had 5 different expositions with significant screentime about moiraine pushing people away from alanna, anvaere and verin - and at some point it just becomes very bad writing. viewers are not juvenile. they don’t need to be rapped over the head over a concept that the show catches and chooses to explore.

this analysis segues into another conversation that we should be having - I do understand that framing lan and siuan in context of their relationships to moiraine as the protagonist of the series is inevitable, smart writing. but after laying the foundation for their characters in s1 and establishing their motivations there was absolutely no need to continue to frame them in context of their relationship to moiraine almost to the exclusion of all other facets of their characterisations. liandrin was clearly afforded a lot more generous writing and screentime and it’s a Problem and also very bad writing when an antagonist is afforded more screentime than your ACTUAL PROTAGONISTS. some of these writing choices are really racist, period.

with regards to discussions about assault and abuse in this episode I will say this once, and only once:

moiraine transferring lan’s bond to myrelle in the books was an act of desperation undertaken only because lan’s life was at stake. moiraine ACTUALLY asking alanna to forcibly take lan’s bond is akin to threatening him with assault. it’s bad writing meant to make her seem a lot more colder to justify the intervention that we see later on. lan offering an apology to moiraine at the end of the episode without any apology in turn displays the writers’ sheer lack of sensitivity in handling the whole conversation.

the show using the oath rod flippantly is another angle that really boils my blood because it clearly would’ve enabled worser amyrlins to exercise power with impunity. ELAIDA was famously the amyrlin who wanted to extract oaths of allegiance from her sisters.

ELAIDA was also famously the amyrlin who gave orders to have rand transported to the tower so that she could use him as a weapon and deny him any agency. the tower *has* no rules for dealing with the dragon in the books and the show chose to manufacture it to no real benefit except awkward, badly executed conflict. siuan and moiraine may have often attempted to control rand in the books - and they were at least partly right sometimes because they had more worldly knowledge and experience than he did - but it’s important to the story that they choose not to deny him his agency and give him plenty of leeway and that elaida specifically thinks of him only as a tool. rand also being physically restrained by the shielding weave and possibly sleeping in that position uncomfortably reminds me of the box sequence in lord of chaos.

siuan compelling moiraine to follow her orders, as a partner she’s been intimate with, is akin to assault. rosamund pike made very specific acting choices that are jarring and difficult to ignore. moiraine gave that oath to siuan in 1x06 implicitly trusting her with her bodily and psychological wellbeing and siuan specifically chooses to violate it. it’s a step away from using the weave for compulsion (which is explicitly also stated as being forbidden btw!)

rand’s scenes when he’s shielded by siuan being juxtaposed against egwene’s scenes with renna was a very bad choice and the editing was so fucking awkward. if the choice was intentionally meant to generate conversations about autonomy it was a very bad one to make.

you know what the kicker is? lan’s exposition to nynaeve about the damane deserving to be free in WH (or was it CoT or KoD? I don’t remember very well) because it was every human’s right despite the harm that they might be capable of causing explicitly positions ELAIDA as a bad person. what does it say about siuan after this episode? any person able to wilfully participate in taking away another person’s autonomy is not a good person, full stop.

theories about siuan being under compulsion (by liandrin) are. fine. it doesn’t explain the showrunners basically speaking from moiraine’s perspective of the tragic turn that the romance took or ignorantly comparing it to the kind of assault ishamael performed on moiraine without any selfawareness or the disconnect in liandrin apparently trying to get rand back in the tower because lanfear and ishamael clearly want him in falme but whatever (unless speculation that another forsaken is free is true). I won’t dismiss it right now, but I don’t think they’re correct. there’s enough clues in the show to make it a plausible theory, but not necessarily a probable one - and it doesn’t explain siuan’s faith in her judgement about treating rand like weapon earlier in the episode.

I’m just…. lol. exasperated. I’m indifferent to her but there’s a very obvious sense of people condemning tuon for being a horrible person in the fandom - and like yeah she IS a horrible person but that’s still textually acknowledged. what is also textually acknowledged is the difficult process involved in deprograming people. when your show can’t understand the textbook definition of assault I’m a lot more unlikely to trust the showrunners actually!

*characters like ishamael, lanfear and min obviously needed overhauling because they were very badly done but their fundamental, core characterisations and motives still remain intact so they work. siuan and lan aren’t even afforded the grace of well-considered changes to their characterisations.

[near-dareis-mai]

Despite liking S2 overall so far, I'm a little disheartened that the show has taken every establishing and character-defining scene for Siuan Sanche from book 2 and book 3 and given them to Liandrin and other characters instead, and that the fandom is for the most part applauding this change wholeheartedly.

Even aside from the optics of stealing entire scenes wholesale from black female characters and giving them to white characters, the more specific issue is that outside of this at this point Siuan will now have no characterization outside of "Moiraine's girlfriend" and "Powerful lady who shows up one episode a season to say something Clever and Wise and then leaves".

The brilliant, caustic, problematic, quarrelsome, nuanced Siuan from the books will be left out to dry because the space to develop that character through such defining scenes as training with Nynaeve has now instead been taken away from her to shore up characters like Liandrin who didn't have such defining scenes in the books, instead of simply making up new stuff for Liandrin. (The Aludran stuff was great. Why can't they make up more stuff like that instead of taking scenes away from Siuan?)

I thought the whole point of good representation is to create nuanced queer characters who are something more outside of their relationships. The show has done very well for that with Moiraine, and I applaud them for it. It's a shame they can't do as well with their black queer female character, who means a lot to those of us who're not straight or white.

And I really hate the excuse that this probably happened because maybe Sophie Okonedo (the actress for Siuan) wasn't available to film more scenes. Even aside from the fact that Sophie dropped out of other prestigious projects like His Dark Materials to be available to film Wheel of Time, the fact is that it's the casting director's job to find an actor that'll be available to film the necessary scenes for a character, and it seems like this decision to condense and trim Siuan's scenes was made before the decision to hire a less available actor so that excuse really doesn't ring true to me.

[cozcat]

listen i love liandrin i love kate fleetwood but i am begging on my hands and knees for them to kill liandrin off rather than merging her into another character

(specifically i want moghedien to compel her to physically kill herself as she's begging for her life, instead of shielding her - the darkfriend who has been doing her ehhst for however long to be her best worst self dying in a psychologically horrifying way would really set us up for fear when moghedien then sets her sights on the wondergirls)

[butterflydm]

I just noticed that with the latest chapter posted, the Voice series had now crossed the 500k word threshold, wow! When I started writing my little "let's add Mat into Rand's relationship" fic, I did not expect it to end up being over 500k. Wild! Plus all the other fics I've written in the last few years for this fandom! I never thought WoT would have an adaptation -- I thought that the horrible "Winter Dragon" pilot that happened was basically the best we would ever get. And now we're about to see The Shadow Rising on-screen. One of the very best books -- many would argue the best book -- but impossible to do without the set-up of first doing tEotW-TDR.

And I'm just... yeah, I'm really happy that the show exists, and that we're getting a new season on March 13, and that the show gives me so many things from the books series that I would have wanted, and even added new additional things to love. Adding depth to villains like Liandrin, giving us the Cauthor Stabbening, making Perrin much more interesting than I found him in the books, etc.

Looking forward to analysing and squeeing over s3 with everyone! I will be using spoiler tags for the season as we go, both general overall season ones and episode specific in the "wot 3x01 spoilers" format. I will always tag spoilers from the books as well, and mention the title of the book that the spoilers came from.

We are so close now! Less than a month! Going from believing that this was a series that was impossible to film to now fully believing that Rafe & co can pull off Rhuidean & the silver rings is a pretty great feeling. <3 <3 <3 <3

There's a fan event on Prime that can be signed up for and it sounds like they will be screening episode one: Wheel of Time fan event. It's at 10am PT on March 8th, but I think it will tell you your local time if you go to the link. It looks like it's airing live, so one and done. I am going to watch that unless the sky falls in on me or something, so there may be episode one spoilers and thoughts here on Saturday after it airs!

[momowoah]

wot book spoilers (maybe? only really vaguely mentioned and the specific character I'm talking about is not named and dead anyway but)

I have seen a lot of people commenting on the written-out redemption of a certain darkfriend and theorizing whether this specific plotline will be assigned to another character in the future. As a show-only who loves spoiling herself, however, all I can think about is if it is really needed.

If there's one message that stuck with me from this season, it's that Light ≠ Good and Dark ≠ Evil (and also that the differences between Light and Dark/good and evil aren't that great). I mean, both the Seanchan (minus Suroth and co) and the Children of the Light are sworn to the Light, but so far in the show they have been a much greater evil than anyone aligned to the dark. On the other hand, we have Lanfear, a Forsaken who burns cities down to the ground just because, working mostly for the Light (although only bc it benefited her) throughout the season. She was the one who took the Dragon to Falme, fully knowing he wouldn't choose the Dark, and arranged for Moiraine to raise his banner.

Other darkfriends, such as Barthanes and Liandrin, were also portrayed as relatively good characters, although ones who acted only in their own interests. Barthanes genuinely like Moiraine, even if he was willing to kill her, and Liandrin's interest in Nynaeve went past just recruiting her to the dark. She gave her a fighting chance against Suroth; she pushed her to be accepted. Liandrin was much more likeable as a darkfriend this season than she was as an Aes Sedai in the last one.

Honestly, so far, the main difference between the Dark and the Light is that the people sworn to the Dark are selfish and always choose to do what benefits them the most while those sworn to the Light believe in something greater and always do what they believe to be right (best example is Anveare). As a show-only, I can see any darkfriend turning to the Light; although I would've liked to see that redemption, I truly don't think the show needs it.

[markantonys]

season 3 tidbits from rafe at the nycc panel (nothing surprising, but interesting to hear nonetheless)

he said again that season 3 really focuses in on TSR and that it was nice to be able to focus on a single book this season, especially since TSR is one of the best books in the series (my personal opinion is that this still doesn't mean we absolutely won't see ANY elements from other books, though, but who knows!)

rhuidean confirmed as a location we will see during the season

there is a forsaken who has been cast and filmed stuff for s3 whom we haven't seen yet in the first 2 seasons (i'm guessing he means asmodean; but there could be more than one brand-new forsaken in s3 for all we know, he didn't specify that there's ONLY one new one)

s3 dives deeper into tel'aran'rhiod and dreamwalking (he specifically mentioned learning about dreamwalking with the aiel)

we'll know very early in season 3 what liandrin has been up to recently

and a fun season 2 behind the scenes fact, he said that donal had been filming a different project in morocco when he got cast in WOT (i'm assuming SAS rogue heroes is what he was filming - great show if you haven't seen it!) and that when they were filming the heroes of the horn scene in the finale, donal seemed emotional so rafe asked him if he was okay, and donal said that that wall was THE VERY PLACE HE WAS STANDING ON when he got the call that he'd been cast as mat!!!! i'm sobbing!!!!