#spaghetti thoughts

[spaghettithighs]

The Bad Opinion Haver has a bad opinion: the worst tier list in existence.

(or at least the worst tier list I've seen in the last 3 to 5 business days)

So... I have beef. It's a silly beef, but I have it nonetheless. I've mentioned Lily Orchard the Bad Opinion Haver a few times before, and her uncanny ability to get under my skin. Right now, of all her myriad Bad Opinions(TM) my ire is drawn mostly to this:

Per the original description:

My wife (Lily) and I (Mikaila) made a tierlist for Baldur's Gate companions.

Before you jump to your keyboards to react, we judged them based on the following criteria.

Viability in a party

Relevance to the story

Their own character story

Their romance (if applicable)

The quality of content surrounding them

They were only tiered based on games they were a companion in (so Ajantis in BG2 and Viconia in BG3 weren't considered).

And they were tiered evenly, so if they were really strong in one area but weak in the others, they were tiered lower. So S Tier is high marks in everything, while RP tier is "Literally every other character in their respective game is better than them, only take them if you're roleplaying."

Now, of the Baldurs Gate CRPG series, I have only played BG3 to completion. I'm currently halfway through Baldur's Gate 1 (specifically the Enhanced Edition), and I haven't touched BG2 or Siege of Dragonspear yet. Regardless, I feel comfortable in saying the above tier list is one of the worst tier lists I've seen, and the reasons why have nothing to do with the specific placement of any character.

So, what makes it so awful? Well:

Reason one:

There, I fixed it (but not really)

The tier list ranks 57 characters from four separate games in a series, with the first game in the series having been published 25 years before the most recent one. That is a lot of characters for anyone to remember, and yet Lily Orchard didn't so much as bother to include their names, let alone the games that they appear in. (now, you could argue that this tier list is meant for people who already recognize all of the Baldurs Gate characters from portraits alone. That would be a fair assumption, if it weren't for the fact that 17 of the 57 characters above are not represented by their official Baldurs Gate artwork. In fact, I'm not 100% certain that I got all of the characters correct in my labelling - it's possible that I mixed up 2 or more characters, because I am working purely off of the information provided in the original tier list, which is... not a lot)

Reason 2: The criteria for this tier list are too broad.

To recap, we have 57 different characters from 4 different games, and they're being rated on 5 separate criteria:

Viability in a party (in other words, mechanical effectiveness)

Relevance to the story

Their own character story

Their romance (if applicable)

The quality of content surrounding them (we'll get back to this one)

Any one of these criteria would make for a good tier list... by itself. By ranking characters on all 5 at once, the reasoning for placing each character in each position becomes more muddied, especially when you withhold the information that would lead to each character being where they are. ... Okay, I said I wasn't going to get too into the specific placements of any character, but to illustrate my points I will bring up one example; Dynaheir is present in the S tier of this list, which implies that she scores exceptionally well in all 5 categories. So let's run through them quickly:

Mechanical Effectiveness: Dynaheir is certainly a good character in BG1, but her effectiveness is hampered by the same thing that hampers all mages in BG1 - limited spell selection due to low character level. For the first 4 or so levels she'll spend most of the time parked behind the tanky front-liners, mooching off of XP from the mundane fights until she's ready to bring out the big guns at 5th level. If you do use her spells in every fight, you're going to be resting a lot, and that brings its own complications in BG1.

Relevance to the story: Strictly speaking, none of the BG1 companions are essential to the story, not even Imoen. The game has 25 optional characters, and you'll be bringing at most 5 along with you at any given time. That's just not a lot of opportunity for deep character interaction.

Their own character story: Dynaheir will occasionally banter with Minsc, but the only quest relevant to her in BG1 is the one in which you first encounter her, and that could be argued to be Minsc's personal quest first and foremost. Then comes Baldurs Gate 2... and she's dead. :/

Their romance: Dyna's not romanceable, so this does not apply.

The quality of content surrounding them: I said we'll get back to this one. Be patient.

Now, to be fair, I did ask Lily directly why Dynaheir is in S tier, and here is her response:

"She's in S Tier because Mages are S Tier. Especially in BG1 with the Sleep/Web combo."

Okay, so Dynaheir is in S tier exclusively for mechanical reasons. Only... if that were the case:

Why are other mages from Baldurs Gate 1 (Edwin, Xzar, Quayle and Xan) not also in S tier with Dynaheir?

Is Lily aware that Dynaheir, who is barred from casting Enchantment spells, cannot cast Sleep?

I'm sure if I asked Lily about every other character in the tier list, I'd get a similar explanation that would lead to similar follow-up questions. However, I can't help but assume that the list's ambiguity is the whole point; Lily doesn't want these opinions to be open to debate.

Reason 3: The criteria for this tier list don't apply equally to every Baldur's Gate game

Let's cycle back to that first point; party viability / mechanical effectiveness. In Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 this is pretty important, because characters in these games are locked into the choices made at character creation. (this could lead to a whole separate discussion about accessibility in RPGs and "the burden of foreknowledge", but I digress). Aerie will always be a Cleric/Mage, Alora will always be a Thief, Khalid will always be a simp for Jaheira et cetera, so if you want a balanced party, you will have to consider the mechanical benefits of each character, as well as their banter and individual story beats.

In Baldur's Gate 3, you can change any companion's whole class at any time for 100 gold pieces.

In other words, the first criteria (Mechanical effectiveness) is completely irrelevant to Baldurs Gate 3 characters.

Before you say that shouldn't matter; every companion in Baldur's Gate 3 has unique dialog options for the Bard-only cantrip Vicious Mockery, and unique roars when entering a Barbarian rage. The ability to adjust any origin PC's class and abilities is a fully supported and wholly intentional part of the game, and should be considered as such when creating a tier list such as this one. Especially when you consider what else this tier list accounts for:

Reason 4: This tier list is based on heavily modded versions of each game.

Hey, remember that last point that I kept saying we'd get back to? Here it is again:

The quality of content surrounding (the character)

By content, Lily Orchard is referring to mods.

This isn't a matter of speculation; Lily Orchard is very open about the mods she uses when playing Baldur's Gate 1, 2 and even 3. Notably, Lily has often claimed that the Imoen Romance Mod (a mod that allows you to romance your own half-sister) is one of the greatest romances of all time. Given that Imoen is S-tier in Lily Orchard's rankings, and that romance is one of the list's criteria, the aforementioned mod has definitely made an impact on the tier list.

I'm not here to begrudge Lily's decision to play the Baldur's Gate games with mods, that's her choice as a consumer of media. As a reviewer, though, she should absolutely be basing her opinions off of un-modded content. Otherwise, the game that she plays could be (and demonstrably is) radically different to the game that a follower is playing.

Let me put it another way: several of the companions in Baldurs Gate 1 come in pairs - if you recruit one, the other joins automatically (or after a short quest). Dismiss one, and the other leaves with them. It's possible to travel with only one of the pair (usually by letting the unwanted character die and then dismissing the corpse) but the expectation is that you play with both, or with neither.

Lily has tiered the members of these pairings separately in the above tier list -because- you can play with separate characters via the above method. Now, if I were to install a mod that makes it so that paired characters will always leave if their dead companion is dismissed, that would impact the tier list above - an S tier character isn't going to be S tier if they're permanently attached to dead weight, after all. You could argue that this shouldn't matter, because I'm basing my opinions on a fully optional mod - and you'd be absolutely right.

The other reason to disqualify a tier list based on mods is one of self-selection. As previously mentioned, the Imoen Romance Mod has definitely influenced Lily's rankings, but I daresay that she included it because she likes Imoen in the first place. To that extent, what's to say that Lily hasn't specifically included modded content for characters she already enjoys playing? Neera the Wild Mage is in F-tier because Lily doesn't like the random nature of Wild Magic surges, but what's to stop her from adding a "good outcomes for Wild Magic only" mod, other than the fact that she already doesn't like Neera?

In Conclusion:

This tier list is bad. It's bad because it's incomprehensible, it's bad because it's indefensible, and it's bad because it's based on a version of Baldur's Gate that you will never play.

Tier lists by their very nature invite discussion - there is no tier list on the internet that won't spark up some level of disagreement, after all. And yet, by its obstinate ambiguity, this tier list has tried its damnedest to stifle any and all discussion on its core subject - forcing me to discuss, instead, just how much it fucking sucks.

Thank you for reading.

PS: I may as well share who my current BG1 party is comprised of - by Lily's metric, I have 2 S-tiers, a D-tier, an F-tier and one RP-tier. We're having fun~

[yetiyetimorespaghetti]

Dragons never went extinct, they simply went into hiding. Drakes on the other hand are false dragons without wings, they can be truly deceptive. Guard yourselves, young Dragonriders!

[spaghettithighs]

We celebrate the act of survival through the hardship of time*. It is only fitting that we celebrate survival through other hardships. You are here. You are alive. You are loved. And that is so very wonderful. (*Y’know, like, birthdays)

sometimes i stalk fancy bakery instagram and

[teaboot]

Me: I appreciate that you keep bringing me tupperware leftovers but you really really shouldn't, you're going to lose a lot of containers

My brother, handing me the 10 thousandth container of leftovers: Oh yeah I forgot to ask when are you bringing those back

Me: You don't want them back.

My brother: What did you do

Me: Better question: what did I NOT do

Him: ...

Me:

Him: Oh my god

Me: Yeah

Him: You haven't been WASHING THEM?

Me: Bruh I'll be honest I haven't even been eating most of them

Him: Oh my god

Him: I have been bringing you lunch since-

Me: Halloween

Him: OH MY GOD

Me: Yeah

Him: It's been- we JUST bought those containers

Me: I'VE BEEN TELLING YOU TO STOP

Him: WHAT THE HELL

Me: I HAVE TOLD YOU SO MANY TIMES TO STOP

Him: IF I DONT FEED YOU, YOU DONT EAT

Me: I AM AN ADULT I PACK FOOD

Him: WHAT FOOD

Me: I DONT KNOW, FUCKING. SPAGHETTI

Him: IN WHAT? IN WHAT? YOU DONT WASH YOUR FUCKING TUPPERWARE

Me: I DON'T *BUY* TUPPERWARE CAUSE I KNOW I WONT WASH IT

Him: WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU CARRY THE SPAGHETTI IN

Me: Bags

Him: What

Me: Ziplock fucking bags

Him: YOU'RE EATING SPAGETTI OUT OF BAGS

Me: IT'S LESS WASTEFUL

Him: HOW is it less wasteful? HOW?? You're throwing out a plastic bag every single day!

Me: It's better than throwing out tupperware!

Him: TUPPERWARE IS REUSABLE

Me: NOT IF YOU DONT WASH IT

Him: WHY THE FUCK NOT

Me: I DONT DO DISHES

Him: THE FUCK YOU MEAN YOU DONT DO DISHES.

Me: I hate doing dishes. You KNOW I hate doing dishes. I have ALWAYS HATED DOING DISHES you KNOW this

Him: WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN EATING OFF OF

Me: PLASTIC BAGS

Him:

Him: You're a fucking trash monster

Me: You wore the same pair of Shrek pants every day for two years

Him: When will you let that go

Me: I will never let it go

Me:

Me: ...thank you for the lasagna

[crunchycat6]

this is what happened, right?

[scullcrusher101xd]

if you had one shot, one opportunity to take a nap. To sieze everything you ever wanted in one moment. Would you capture it or just let it slip?

[ghostymarni]

I just saw a comment that said Vader kept Boba Fett around because he reminded him of Rex and I AM NOT OKAY-

[itsghostlost]

Someone created a challenge where you try to draw Peppino within the time limit of his escape theme earlier this year, but I never got around to showing my attempt!

[ectopuppy]

Dannymay Day 2: Wish

dandelion wishes 💖

[beatcroc]

last verse same as the first. look i love fake pep interning at peppino's pizzeria as much as the next guy, but...when it comes to actual work.... i just think there are options that are more mutually beneficial for everyone involved. bonus:

hey! it's a series! fake peppino world tour: [noise] [noisette] [peppino] [gustavo] [gerome] [noisette again] <-u are here. the end! :')

[rascal-rose]

I really live in a timeline where my cope for anxiety is a balding middle aged italian man with so many issues

[spaghettithighs]

Tagged by @firstruleofmethclub to post 5 songs in my recent rotation. Since I don't have any concrete playlists to pull from this is gonna be a crapshoot, but here we go.

Photographic (Rex The Dog Dubb) - Depeche Mode

I've been on a Depeche Mode kick recently (in other news, water is wet). This remix was a minor meme on YTMND back in like 2005 or so, but it slaps so we'll forgive it.

FALL INLOVE! - Ena Mori

Found this one thanks to @doyoulikethissong-poll, where it did incredibly poorly (5th least liked song on the blog to date). Despite that, it's the sort of airy pop that gets stuck in my head way too easily. (similar vibes to Chelsea Jade or… Caroline Polachak, maybe? Idk, it's not a genre i fuck around with much)

M.E. - Gary Numan

so where the FUCK is your head at, anyway?

Glorious Outburst - osc444

There's your DDResque song for this list - osc444 is a DDR-adjacent producer from Japan who, to put it lightly, has had a rough year. This is their most recent release, and I do fuck with it.

Bounce2me - Jam2go (From Kitten Burst)

@gauntletqueen has been playing Kitten Burst on stream with @punkitt-is-here recently, and since hearing this earworm my life has not known peace. Watch for fun references to mid-2000s flash cartoons, avoid watching if you're vulnerable to identity fraud scams.

Anyway, we're tagging people? We're tagging people I guess. I tag, uhh… well, @gauntletqueen (REVENGE), @ssecond-hand-faith, @lightwxrker, @funktrash, and uhh… @booords, why not

[yetiyetimorespaghetti]

「Sauce Available On Request」 (OC) 2023

[queefsencen]

repost bc no one saw it 😞

and happy tam cam reveal day

[martyryo]

They're turning 25 💔

[skully-drawls]

Damn, it really be like that, Maurice?