#source: clonehub

[neshatriumphs]

I'm going to say it. The post may not be about it, but I am bout associating white features with evil. Evil looks like whiteness. Whiteness looks like evil. And this is true in real life to the point that y'all have to make just mentioning y'all's white features "racism" against y'all and y'all have to continually impress the lies in fiction that simply don't fly in real life.

I hate you epitome of innocence being represented with blonde hair I hate you lightness representing goodness I hate you "angelic features" automatically being read as blonde hair and blue eyed with pale skin I hate you whiteness as the default for morality I HATE YOU I HATE YOU

[nibeul]

What always really confused me about the Clones status as war slaves is that it never seems to upset Anakin, a former slave. Like, in "The Hidden Enemy" Anakin gets an expression when Slick points out he and his brothers are all slaves that seems to indicate he realizes this and that it makes him uncomfortable... and then it's never brought up again as far as I remember. Like, they really could have used the status of the clones as slaves, as well as the Jedi's complacency to the slave trade on Tatooine as reasons to his fall, but neither are ever really brought up. Also, is it ever established what happened to the clones in general after Order 66? I know they were used as the first generation of Storm Troopers but what happened after they were retired? There were thousands of them, where did they go?

oh I've thought about this so many times and it never fails to bug me. my guess is it comes from the fact that Lucas literally did not think about the implications of the Clone Army when creating them in ROTS, but it's still an issue and one that... doesn't really have an explanation. Not to mention, the Jedi as a whole were supposed to be super anti-slavery (which we know they weren't since they let prominent groups like the Hutts get away with it/were willing to compromise with said groups and also, ya know, Qui Gon literally telling an enslaved Anakin that they weren't gonna save him or his mom...), so even accepting their role in the GAR goes against what they say they stand for.

Generally, I think there were three main plausible responses to the Clone Army from the Jedi (for those who actually acknowledged that the clones were enslaved anyway):

Viewing it as a "necessary evil" and were willing to fill their role in the hierarchy. By reasoning with themselves that it was for a greater purpose, they're basically absolving themselves of guilt/responsibility. This also goes into the "well if I don't do it then someone else will" mentality where they see it as a must. -> We can also talk about the concept of "acceptable slavery" here and how we perceive Jedi who "treated the clones nicely" vs someone like Krell who saw them as expendable and sub-human

Completely distancing themselves from the source (while actively criticizing from afar, in some cases). They might acknowledge that the clones are enslaved but refuse to actually do anything about it and instead remove themselves from the war effort entirely. They see it as something that's bad, but not something they should do anything about either. If they avoid being put into roles like "General", they avoid feeling responsible. They still remain a Jedi but have completely avoided aiding the war effort in its entirety while also remaining silent about the clones themselves with the occasional sympathetic comment.

Leaving the Order. This one can kinda go with the above I guess, though I'm sure there were Jedi who saw what was going on and outright refused to be part of an institution that was actively participating in the enslavement of the clones. I'm sure there were former Jedi (and maybe even active Jedi) who helped clones desert, though we haven't seen any in canon, so I guess it's up to the fans to have that (without the white savior vibes please :|).

I think it's also important to talk about "well, who's guilty then?" because in the broad sense, the entirety of the Order is responsible, but then it varies at an individual level. Like let's look at Plo Koon who's canonly very forgiving but draws the line at slavers and actively tries to kill them on sight multiple times in the comics. I enjoy Plo Koon as a character; I like doodling him, I like reading fics with him, but he's also a High Council Member and upholds the system which keeps the clones enslaved. His character arguably contradicts itself, but because he is portrayed as nice and caring, the argument against him is "lessened"/he is not held to the same level of accountability someone like Krell is. We excuse him—and other Jedi—from the fact that he is helping to lead an army of enslaved men because he is nice.

In Anakin's case, part of me wonders if he doesn't really think of the clones as enslaved because the clones are not enslaved in the same way that Anakin was enslaved. He has a set idea of what slavery is based on his own circumstances and the way that the clones are enslaved doesn't seem to fit the bill so he doesn't really register it. Being confronted with the fact that his childhood might not be so different from what the clones are currently going through made him uncomfortable, and as such, he pushed the thought away/decided against addressing it. That's more so an in-universe explanation since I already mentioned why the story's probably set up this way but yeah. Idk how much I want to get into that, so I'll leave it at there for now.

For what happened to the clones after Order 66, they fought for the newly established Empire and continued to be produced until the Kamino Uprising (which I think was like... 16-12BBY, somewhere in between that??). Palpatine pretty quickly started integrating natborns into the Empire's military wing though the clones still made up the bulk of it for a while since the Empire needs more than one or two years to make a complete shift. Most of the clones died before they could ever retire from old age, I believe the last active clones were Vader's fist (the 501st) and the majority of that battalion was wiped out during the Battle of Hoth. Bottomline, they deserved better than what they got.

I'm 90% sure clonehub's talked about this, so I recommend checking out her blog.

[unwhitewashthebadbatch]

"bu-but how can tech be ginger if hes poc???!!!"

Ngāti Hotu Māori: am i a joke to you?

If you could, could you please link the post/reference the discussion where someone says or implies that Tech is ginger (I personally always thought his hair was just brown)?

For anyone who's curious, here's what I read about Ngāti Hotu Māori, although I'm a bit iffy about the source. Anon, if you have any other sources or would like to elaborate, please don't be scared to reach out through asks here or to me directly @clonehub. The rough short of it is that the Ngāti Hotu Māori are a tribe in northern Aotearoa who naturally have red hair. But again, if I'm missing details, please tell me!

Just as a general note, there are plenty of other ethnic groups around the world that naturally sport red hair. There are also others that have blonde hair naturally. These colors, although commonly associated, are not limited to white people.

Regarding the Ngāti Hotu Māori, I think it would have been great if the team had taken the time to actually go into detail, as far as they can as Star Wars writers, about different Māori tribes and the various presentations between them. However, historically we've seen that they don't put that level of research into their creations. But I also don't know if Temuera Morrison himself is Ngāti Hotu Māori--I'd assumed that the clones would technically be whatever tribe he is. I tried googling it but could not find anything.

If this is about Tech's whitewashing, the issue isn't that he's a light-haired person of color--mixed and lightskin PoC exist, of course, with any range of features. If his character had been a Māori man that's lightskinned/mixed but wasn't a clone, then there would be no issue.

However, that isn't the case with Tech. His issue is that he's a clone of a man with very distinct features, but in the process of being genetically enhanced to be a genius, he now passes for a white man. It's the connection of whiteness/lightness to genius that #UnwhitewashTBB is concerned with.

Rereading the ask, if there is a way for you to elaborate on what your concern is, I would greatly appreciate it. If this is about non-Ngāti Hotu Māori denying the existence of, speaking over, or otherwise just not being aware of the various appearances of Ngāti Hotu Māori, I'm sorry that's been happening to you. Sometimes, in people's efforts to address one issue (whitewashing) they end up creating another one.

Apologies if there's a point you were trying to make that I didn't address here. Again, you can continue to send asks here (there are no DMs on multi-managed blog, sorry) or DM me @clonehub if there's something specific that I missed. I hope you have a nice day!

- Mod CH

[belfrygargoyles]

Hi! I was hoping you could share @/clonehub's pinned post. It's a carrd about unwhitewashthebadbatch. We're trying to get more momentum and spread it around so more people see it!

Of course! I know quite a few people have come to me after a post about about fic writing tropes in star wars, particularly reader inserts, which included the prevalence of racist tropes, fetishization, and colorist bias. If you’re here from those posts or have even a tangential interest in star wars, please check out this carrd by @clonehub! It is a much better resource about the problems in the actual source media, which very heavily influence the ways fans interact with and create fan content for it.

[aces-to-apples]

imagine, imagine, using clonehub as a source in this 2021st year of this bullshit. clonehub. y'all remember clonehub, right? organizes hate campaigns against fans who draw art they don't like, accuses random actual human people of pedophilia for shipping fictional characters together, claims it's racist too be Too Enthusiastically Horny about fictional characters in heavy-curated online spaces that only showcase a tiny fraction of the vast experiences of the people in them? that clonehub. that's the blog you're citing in your tirade against *checks notes* fictional not-incest? alright then it's good i didn't have a single ounce of respect to start with ig.

[belfrygargoyles]

Anyways so-

If it seems like i single out star wars, it’s just because that’s the fandom I was in when I became aware of this being a thing.

Specifically, it was a post by... I think clonehub? essentially pointing out that star wars fanfics tend to.... be very straightforward, to the point of reading as clinical or outright neglecting to explore a character’s motives and feelings with the reader. Like, the writing tends to be very “A stood on B planet thinking about C. A found it troubling. D would happen, and that meant E.”

And i got thinking about it and... yeah, that was almost exactly why so few star wars fics really clicked with me, moreso than usual- on top of my normal very picky standards, many of even the well written fics i otherwise would have enjoyed just... did not have the “flavor” of the meal- all meat, no aroma or sauce or spices.

And I think this is greatly in part because... that’s what star wars itself is like. Facts are presented to you. You can infer the long term effects and implications and draw conclusions implied about a character’s emotional arc and motives, but it’s never focused on or explored.

This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, though. Sometimes, a story is simple and follows a simple formula and it can still be very good- the og trilogy for example. All of the depth in the story is what we, the viewers, take away from it based off of our own perceptions of the hints given to us- the tragedy of darth vader and luke’s love for his father, leia’s grief at losing her home only to discover she has a brother, exactly why han develops feelings for leia and how he comes to terms with caring about people other than himself. These are all implied, yes, but none of them are the actual focus of the movies. The movies themselves tell a very direct and straightforward story about an unlikely hero from the “common man” going on a journey to gain power to defeat a vast evil oppressor. It’s very “meat and potatoes”- and it works! because the actors themselves had good chemistry and gave us the butter and chives and pepper to keep us interested in the meal.

And then there’s where it doesn’t work. The prequels introduce too many additional flavors but fail to give any one of them a flattering spotlight, making the dish a muddied mess of tastes and textures that don’t actually accent the meal itself, despite these flavors supposedly being crucial to the overall composition. Tcw is like someone asking you “hey, you want quesadillas for dinner?” and every time you say “boy would i!” an hour later they come back and say “you get white bread and a pat of butter” and this happening over and over and over.

And in writing this... doesn’t tend to translate very well at all, because while movies are purely visual and provide the colors and facial expressions and body language and environmental clues and tones of voice that can spice up an otherwise simple meal, in text you rely entirely on what the author provides to you to draw your conclusions. I don’t mean authors have to spell everything out for you, but when a fic just straight up does not focus on a character’s thoughts and feelings and personal motives and conflicts and instead just shows us what’s happening, it... can feel pretty bland and unengaging.

And this isn’t exclusive to star wars, but it’s by far the fandom I see it the most in because of the tone of the source media. Every fandom has fics of varying style tone and quality, but there are themes and patterns often unique to that piece of media and its fandom environment.

I just personally find it... both interesting and unfortunate. ineresting because hey its something i hadnt noticed before but now it seems really obvious. unfortunate because it’s confirmed why so few star wars fanfics appeal to me in the slightest