#sorry @ cersei's normal fans

[aingeal98]

House of the dragon is so funny because normally if there's a big gay ship full of subtext in a show the fans will go crazy making everything about the ship and twisting the narrative to fit it while the showrunners don't actually care and try to steer the characters away from it to avoid queerbaiting accusations. Meanwhile in hotd everyone from the writers to the actors to the directors is fully yuri pilled like Rhaenyra and Alicents dynamic is the heart of the show and the narrative doesn't work without acknowledging it. And a large portion of the fans are still stubbornly trying to ignore it two seasons in and twist the characters actions in another direction even if it makes no sense. It's so funny the showrunners went sorry no you're not getting a two dimensional Cersei rip off you're getting childhood friends to enemies who long to be lovers. And the concept just would not compute in the fans brains unless they cared about female characters and the dynamic between them, which we already know the majority of most fans do not.

[catofoldstones]

hi i'm still here :) those things about fandom denying theorizing about jonsa just bothered me heavily since fans accepted almost every theory under the sun but hypothetical j0nsa is where they draw the line they accepted curtain of light theory and 3 heads of the dragons saving the world for years before a hypothetical cousin marriage/bethrodal that ties a lot of plot threads and themes together and resolves so much of the missing plot pieces from the show, i might not personally like it cause of the incest implications but im also consistent with hating all jon's incest ships and still keeping an open mind about j0nerys and j0nsa on a storytelling basis but j0nsa is a theory that intrigued me so much because it did make sense from the drafts,the fact that sansa will end up at winterfell with the vale army by the time jon wakes up and changes into who knows what (again fans straight up ignoring which stark is actually the closest to winterfell will never not make me laugh) to the many gothic literature and historical references george takes to especially the ashford theory thats so unavoidable i call fans extremely blind for being this in denial that it might happen as a plot point and since aegon is most likely going to be busy with dorne/cersei/dany or euron and most likely die in the south (rip son) i highly doubt sansa will tie into his plot unless thats the last targ suitor she's supposed to be betrothed with and again its kinda a big nothing theory to me cause sansa going south would be repetitive and its already been debunked with the AFFC draft leaks unless aegon wants a claim to the north which again im pretty sure he'll be engaged to arianne for martell points and allyship (also her being engaged to a secret fake bastard heir was already done with joffrey and it being completely reversed with j0n feels more complete as an end point to that theory/arc there's no way george would pass that up).

i also don't think this is all jon and sansa have to offer as characters,its what bothers me with other ship fans as well i like them as separate characters and i also feel like looking at the story, if it were to happen i don't believe it would be a fairytale romance or ending or be anytype of normal relationship, i might even be completely wrong and j0nsa might never come up (also feel like george would be wary of doing this now when media literacy is at an all time low but fandom toxicity is high as the heavens), both sansa and jon fandom theories have been through a rollercoster over the years im just happy that fans finally have theories that actually makes sense storytelling wise and not something for wish fulfillment but bias still runs amok in the fandom unfortunately and it still clouds a lot of convo about the characters and plot theories

sorry for rambling in your inbox again

Hello :3 nice to see you again

anon can I call you soulmate anon because every sentiment you’ve portrayed here is exactly what I believe too! I like jonsa too because it’s v compelling and it has good evidence to back it up, but I’m really iffed up because of the incest too. Well not because I’m a pearl-clutching puritan but because it’s not fair to Sansa tbh, as a teenaged girl in a deeply patriarchal society. If she’s the girl in grey who runs away to Jon for protection, it’ll not be as a friend who’s seeing another friend after a long time, it’ll be because she wants protection from her brother. Then comes in the question of her claim to Winterfell. If she marries Jon to smooth out the inheritance crisis, the North would still belong to Jon & not Sansa. They will not be equal in that marriage or as the lord and lady of Winterfell. However, there are far, far too many indications of a jonsa match, textually and subtextually, which I am right there with you anon, are so compelling! It would only be a blind man to not see them. And the fandom collectively vehemently denying jonsa is v funny to me because it sounds so much like

“Do you believe women are humans?”

“Yes”

“Do you believe women should have the same rights as men?”

“Yes, absolutely!”

“So you are a feminist.”

“Eww, no.”

Like, the text is glaringly pointing at something with air raid sirens and neon red lights, but what could it mean, hmm 🤔 Like c’mon guys my cat could figure out what’s going on at this point.

Though, I do believe that the Ashford Targaryen suitor could be Aegon VI for Sansa. While a lot of people believe that Aegon will marry/betrothe Arianne for that Dorne support but that doesn’t make sense to me because

1. It’s like Sansa would marry into the Tully family for support to take back the North

2. The Dornish are already burning to avenge Elia

3. Arianne is the heir to Dorne in her own right (and has had major plot around that), marrying the next King of the 7 kingdoms hardly makes sense for her.

BUT Aegon & Arianne’s plots are barreling towards each other and they very well might just get married to secure another plot point that I cannot think of right now. And I know that Aegon is doomed and Arianne survives (George, pls or else 🔪🔪) so that’s another reason why Aegon & Sansa can’t happen. And Jon being the Targeryen suitor holds so much more literary weight than a rando who has never had an impact on her or her emotions or her plot (apart from your brilliant points). Also, no I am not debating the “Dunk disturbed the Ashford Tourney so Sxn/dxr is the one for Sansa” because we’ve debated to death that even being granted the title of Maid does not mean anything like a betrothal in Westerosi society or has negative consequences (r + l & that whole war it started). Also, just because Dunk got in the middle of the Tourney does not mean that he got the girl in the end. Hope that helps. Moreover, Dunk’s asoiaf corollary is Brienne not sxn/dxr, so by their logic, briensa ftw!!!!!!!!!!

Anon, the way everyone ignored the affc outline just because it showed something the Sansa fandom had been (rightly) theorising for years now has me rolling on the floor 😂 the denial, the denial is so strong with these people, even the “neutrals”. Don’t even get me started on the BNFs. If something like this were leaked about xrya or dxny, it would have been front page news that breaks the asoiaf fandom containment lol.

Stark closest to Winterfell and takes north! C’mon now anon, don’t give these people a heart attack.

Yes well, there have been one too many people in this fandom (as is common in any other fandom *cough* jxnxryas *cough*) to reduce the characters to the ship but the block button is my lord and saviour. Shipping is so that we can bring out the best (or the worst) character traits in the people we’re shipping, not to water down the said character traits.

There’s a chance that jonsa doesn’t happen in the books or happens just in the subtext or whatever, and I’ll be fine with that as long as the stories for both Jon and Sansa have satisfying and empathetic progression. Though I would terribly like for it to happen just to dunk on the haters and the BNFs and the “skeptics” lol. I am trying to be a better person these days, but pettiness is my second daughter 🤪 and to add to this point, if jonsa doesn’t happen, that still won’t erase the heavy foreshadowing we’ve been seeing in the text till now. If some other ship had the Ashford theory, the Byronic connection, JONnel Stark marrying a girl named xrya or an ancestor Sansa Stark marrying a -whoever- in their lineage, the plot satisfaction, the narrative parallels, the textual connection, it would be considered canon by now. But no, since it’s Jon x Sansa and that is still somehow a pretty strong contender for breaking all your ships, they will close their eyes and call it a crack ship. Baby a crack ship is me and Oscar Isaac or Sasuke and Taylor Swift. But if Sasuke and Taylor had all of this evidence, it would, once again, be considered canon. Sigh, just take your Sansa hatred elsewhere man, we’re not in 2006 anymore.

Dude, I found older forums/metas a while back and there is nowhere that Sansa was mentioned w/o sxn/dxr. Sxn/sxn was just a given. It was canon, it was always going to happen and that’s just so reductive tbh. I’m v v grateful that the meta and fandom spaces (maybe just a small corner but that is enough for me) have evolved so much through the years otherwise I would get beaten here every day. It’s still toxic as hell though, with the level of trash metas that will give early asoiaf fandom a run for its money and at one point you just want to scream- you all realise that these are books, right? and we’re the readers! you’re not dxny or jon or tyrion or even fleabottom ragpickers! none of this is real 😭 i should not be coming here, armoured and with a sword, to defend my fav characters, i should be having fun here and exchanging stupid ideas 😭 but asoiaf fandom remains asoiaf fandom however well the ways of hating may have changed.

But please, always ramble in my ask box anon. I love reading your thoughts and it gives me a chance to ramble as well :)

[brydeswhale]

My Giant Anti-Jonsa Hate Post, AKA why a person might not ship Jonsa other than hating Sansa :P

I'm warning you ahead of time, this is mostly me rambling. I'm not smart. Lots of smart people you can read, go read them.

So, I've noticed this tendency amongst some Jonsa shippers to sort of dismiss any criticism as Sansa-hate. Sometimes they are actually correct, some people only read ASOIAF in order to see Jon as a typical hero and any female character as simply the reward Jon gets for being a hero, which is so weird. There is a similar feeling that the biggest reward a female character can get is Jon's dick, so, um, yeah.

Having said that, I have a lot of reasons not to ship Sansa with Jon outside of how my ego feeds into my reading. I have read pics with them as the pairing, tbh, if you're a Sansa fan you kind of get pulled into it just because it's so hard to find ANY fics where Sansa gets treated decently that I just treat Jon in those fics as an original character.

I will now list my non-jonsa feels, in no particular order.

I do not believe the text supports it.

A lot of smart people have dug through the text and pointed to what they believe are clues. I'm not going to go through all of these because some of them are, IMO, a reach so far that the proponents have hired a gibbon to do the reaching.

One of those that kind of makes me super perplexed is the whole Jonnel/Sansa thing. Shippers will point to that as some kind of sign that their ship will sail, but honestly, I do not think so. Or at least, I hope it's not a portent of Jonsa.

Jonnel Stark and his plot line with the original Sansa seem to have more in common with the modern story of Alys Karstark and her flight from her uncle and cousin, who attempted to usurp her claim to Karhold by forcibly marrying her.

That is to say, it's a dark, sad story, made all the worse by the fact that Sansa eventually died, and she and Jonnel never had issue. In fact, Jonnel didn't have kids with his second wife, either. Possibly divine punishment for usurping and marrying his niece, IMO.

Most of the other "Jonsa" foreshadowing, I'm sorry to say, seems similar to that, basically. Either it's a sort of retelling of a completely different event happening in the present, or it's a sort of a weird, long reach. Like the idea that the comet is meant to foreshadow Jonsa, which is, honestly, so weird it's laughable, or pointing to times that Jon has complimented Sansa's looks. Some people even try to fit the Bael the Bard story to Jonsa.

It doesn't seem to fit with the how the text treats incest, in my opinion.

Much is made of the show's revelation that Jon and Sansa, despite being raised as and considering each other siblings, are biologically cousins, what with the revelation that Rhaegar kidnapped a teenaged Lyanna Stark and murdered her through reproductive abuse. For a lot of people this makes the incestuous aspect of the text "not count"(which is annoying for other reasons I will discuss later).

I just don't think "they're actually cousins" really works here, either, though.

GRRM sort of seems to use incest as kind of a shorthand for corruption. The Targaryens are the main example, their inbreeding a symbol of their incapacity as humans, and Craster is a giant screaming red flag but there are other incestuous marriages that seem to operate as symbols for the people involved, most notably the elder Lannister and Stark marriages.

The marriage of Tywin Lannister is an interesting sort of backdrop for the Lannister family as a whole. Joanna is often regarded, in both fandom and the series itself, as a sort of softening influence, a better version of Cersei, the true queen of Casterly Rocks, whose relationship with Tywin was very normal and healthy.

However, when examining Tywin Lannister's serious case of narcissism, I find it very unlikely that he would be capable of anything resembling normal in a marriage. It seems likely to me that his love of Joanna was more likely based on the same thing Cersei and Jaime's relationship was based on, AKA a damaged, narcissistic monstrosity. The marriage, IMO, was based on the fact that Tywin was attempting to emulate the elitist principles of the Targaryens. Only a Lannister could match a Lannister, in other words.

Then we examine the children of this incestuous union. I don't think its a coincidence that Cersei, Jaime, and Tyrion are as fucked up as they are. The example they have of a relationship is fucked up and incestuous, so it wasn't surprising that the twins emulated it. And Tyrion being Tyrion is also not shocking. Joanna may have demanded a place for him, but how much of that was motivated by love, and how much by a similar narcissism to Tywin and Cersei's, the idea of the child as the extension of the self.

But, @brydeswhale , I hear you say, because I have audio processing disorder, what about the Starks?

Well, tbh, I'm pretty sure the Lyarra/Rickard thing being incestuous was an afterthought, another way to mirror the Lannisters, but I do not think they're intended to be an example of incest done right. Rickard had some pretty weird obsessions of his own, if certain people are to be believed, and Lyarra is a near non-entity.

And while their kids seem to be, well, less fucked up than the Lannisters, it's still worth noting that two of the four are dead, of the two survivors, one dedicated himself to ensuring his family's full isolation from the rest of the country and the other joined a penal colony full of slave soldiers dedicated to what amounts to a border patrol that, whatever its origins, seems intent on enforcing an economic and cultural barrier to a random set of ethnic groups beyond the Wall, so good job there.

And even when Brandon and Lyanna were alive, well, no fault to Lyanna, she seems like a good kid, but Brandon was apparently an antagonistic dick and, well, he doesn't seem to have been very respectful of women.

Incest almost seems like a code in GRRM for "something is very wrong here and it won't end well, even for the innocents" and I just don't see him choosing to go against that.

As an incest survivor, the lightness with which the Jonsa fandom treats that aspect of it is messed up.

I don't tend to talk too much about my past as a CSA survivor, but yeah, there is it is. It kind of weirds me out, DOESN'T trigger me, just weirds me out, how casually the ASOIAF fandom treats incest bc, um, yeah, its not really casual. I feel like GRRM treats it with a great deal of gravitas, but fandom kind of skips over it, which is weird.

The "Real" siblings stance is obnoxious

There exists, within fandom, a tendency to devalue families outside the biological family.

It's not specific to ASOIAF, don't get me wrong. It's the same thing that had people giggling over Thor's defensive "he's adopted" or talking about which Robin is "the real son". It also lends itself to pairing in those fandoms based on those same ideas. It's not incest, after all, if they're not really related?

This might seem like small potatoes to some people, but the problem with this is that it's also a problem outside fandom, and it's something I've dealt with my entire life.

See, my family also isn't "real" according to this rule.

I have foster siblings, step siblings, half siblings, so on and so forth. I have siblings I'm almost completely alienated from, siblings I love more than life itself, and siblings who are ex-siblings, pining for the fjords, kicked the bucket, bought the farm, blah, blah, blah.

So to hear people talk about how Jon and Sansa aren't real siblings because of the complexity of how their relationship came to be, how close they are, whether or not the moon was full when they met, is actually kind of hurtful.

It tells me something about the people using this trope and what they subconsciously think of my family. How "real" we are to them, and how much we matter. It kind of makes me think we don't really matter, that because we don't share DNA, we don't count.

Also:

Jon is one of my least favourite characters and Sansa can do better.

To Be VERY VERY clear:

I'm not saying don't ship them, don't read it, etc, etc. If you want to, it's up to you. Like I said, I read it sometimes, just because it's so ubiquitous. I have plenty of pairings that other people might hate, or think are immoral, etc. These are just my feelings, tbh.

I just think dismissing all criticism or even plain distaste for this ship down to not liking one character or another, or whatever, is kind of messed up. There are lots of valid reasons not to like a ship, and it's worth considering all of them.

[quillkiller]

you got me, i’m very interested and already invested in your lily charter study fic! i think lily’s character potential is greater than some people imagination and the reason why people refuse to play with her personality may varies from one person to another, but in my opinion it is old classic misogyny to strip female characters from any flaws and traits and turn them into always kind, always understanding and always forgiving human beings.

i saw one post on tiktok some time ago, you might also saw it? it was a rant about lily’s characterization in newish fanfics, it wasn’t directly targeted at jegulus writers, but it was clear from subtext that they were talking about jegulus fanfiction. there were many words, but one specific sentence stuck with me the most. ‘lily evans is someone who doesn’t have an evil bone in her body’. i had to hold myself back from asking op one question that still aggressively claws my brain: why. why lily evans can’t be humanized, why she can’t experience normal human emotions and feelings, why she can’t be layered and complex, why she has to forgive and understand everyone. why a girl from family that walked all over her can’t turn her back on them, why she can’t not offer her ex best friend empathy, why she can’t rage and grief and do things she’ll later regret doing. i don��t know, putting women in a box with one available emotion for the rest of their lives is misogyny for me, but no one wants to listen because no one actually want interesting female characters, everyone is just preaching about it. the latest example of this is alicent hightower, in a few years people will pretend that they always liked her character like they did with dany, cersei or even sansa, but that will never change the fact that the general audience and fans hated them all.

sorry for the rant, i got carried away @_@

NEVER APOLOGIZE I AM ON MY KNEES WORSHIPPING AT YOUR FEET………. 🧎

im not even going to add anything this entire thing is so spot on and exactly how i feel!!!!! thank you lovely for sharing it with me <3

[fleurdulys]

Top 5 cersei lannister moments lmao

Since a lot of her stans think she and jaime are the same person i'm gonna refer you to "Top 5 Jaime Lannister moments". 😂But like every scene in the books in which she is nowhere to be found is a Cersei classic, you go gurl, live your life as far away from me as possible.Thank you!

[frogspotted]

Ofc dislike whoever you want idc but what’s this about sansa being a villain???? Is this a joke? She’s a 13 year old girl what are you ON ABOUT

Friendly (or not so friendly) reminder that it’s fine to be critical of or to even dislike Sansa. There’s this erroneous idea that not loving her while liking other female characters is the same as hating ALL female characters, which is, frankly, insane. No. Liking Arya and Dany and other female characters while seeing Sansa as the villain/camera GRRM wrote her as is completely fine and it’s definitely not a sign that you hate ALL other female characters except one. If anything, the author intended for readers to root for Arya (who he based on the feminist women he knew) and Dany (who he identifies with himself) while Sansa was created specifically to cause problems for Arya, his heroine. 

[nineteensixtieschikadee]

Arya Stark & Femininity

This might turn into a mini rant, so bear with me here. A lot of times whenever I watch old GOT clips, (bc I hate myself) and read stuff about Arya on fansites, I realize that there’s been a lot of misconception about her and her character. Particularly about her being a woman. And a lot of times i see this sort of “justification” from her fans that the reason why she’s such a fan-favorite character in the show (and to some extent, the books?) is because Arya is esentially this “bad-ass ninja asassin tomboy who’s out for revenge against those who’ve killed her family.” And some of her fans and especially her anti’s will call her out expressing that “Arya’s only a child who doesn’t like girly things like dresses and boys and doing her hair. She “identifies” herself as a tomboy because she likes “boyish things” like sword play, and playing in the mud, and gore, wrestling, etc. I was scrolling through the Jonrya tag here on Tumblr, this is a comment I found regarding Arya:

The moment I read that I straight up just wanted to rant! Lol! Also, I’m sorry for the formatting, I’m writing this on mobile. :( Anyways, these people who make those claims about Arya, esentially only see her as this small girl who likes fighting and getting dirty. They completely disregard everything else that makes Arya, Arya. Pretty much just limiting her to her sex, understanding that because Arya likes boyish things, she’s NOT ALLOWED to inherit things, like the North, fall in love and get married, have a high position in the hierarchy and in politics. It’s because that these people see her as someone who hates needlework or everything that isn’t Sansa, everyone believes that she hates everything that makes her FEMALE. Everybody here knows that Arya’s my favorite female character in the books, so I just wanna talk about how the general public views her, and how their views tend to go against Arya’s entire character.

People have this view that she is the “exact opposite” of Sansa. And while that’s true in terms of their different characteristics, it doesn’t mean that Arya is against everything that makes Sansa, feminine. Now lemme elaborate here. Sansa is everything that represents “femininity.” Especially in terms of the inspired time period that ASOIAF takes place in. She’s very girly & lady-like, is mannerful, “soft-spoken.” She daydreams about boys and being a princess. She’s graceful and elegant. She knows her place in terms of society, and as a woman. AND YEAH, Arya is the exact opposite of that. Yes, she has this boyish nature. She’s wild and free spirited. Loud also adventerous. But that’s the thing: Arya has a lot of femininity in her. It’s just not the femininity that we’re used to. What society percieves as “normally feminine.”

Arya is not Sansa. And it’s because she doesn’t act like a “lady” that the audience sees her as this girl who “doesn’t want” or most importantly, should not want/get the same treatment as the typical noblewoman in Westeros should recieve. This idea was engraved into people’s heads because of the show, and that’s how we’re supposed to see her. As this cold hearted ninja assasin warrior who happens to be a girl, but doesn’t act like a typical girl. The audience pretty much places her in the “I’m not like other girls” trope. Which is honestly, so wrong to me. Because yeah okay, Arya isn’t like the typical lady. But god, she is far deeper than that, and is a much more complex character.

Here’s the thing, Arya does not reject being a female, and most importantly, she does not reject the typical ideals of what makes a lady feminine. Of course not. In fact, she actively encourages that women be included in all things, especially in things only made for men. She believes that women should not be held back or ignored because of their sex and femininity.

“The Lannister’s are proud,” Jon observed. “You’d think the royal sigil would be sufficient, but no. He makes his mother’s House equal in honor to the king’s.”

“The woman is important too!” Arya protested.

This excerpt is from Arya’s very first chapter in AGOT. It is also my favorite Jonrya moment, lol. And asides from the scene foreshadowing potential plot points for not only Jon & Arya, the scene introduces to us and examines Arya’s perception of society and more specifically, the women in society. In this scene Arya joins Jon in observing Prince Joffrey, talking about the Lannister/Baratheon coat of arms. Jon makes a point that while the Baratheon sigil should be enough to prove that Joffrey is of royalty, the Lannisters (Cersei) are a proud house, married into the royal family. So therefore Joffrey is of house Baratheon AND Lannister. That is why the Lannister sigil stands besides the Baratheons. Because they, specifically Cersei, should be seen as equal to the king.

And while Jon makes this seem like it’s wrong or not needed, Arya disagrees with him. She tells him that the women should not be forgotten, as they should be seen as equal to the men. That the women are just as important as the men, and that it would be of good conduct to not forget that. And with that being said, she never acknowledges that Joffrey’s mother is too lady-like or too feminine to be seen as an equal to the king. Nope. Although she does question later as to why if women cannot fight, why should they have a coat of arms. Though that is hardly the point of her argument.

Another point that makes people believe that Arya is not feminine or does not support femininity, is when she flat out says to Ned that she hates the idea of being a lady.

“Your mother and I have charged her with the impossible task of making you a lady.”

“I don’t want to be a lady,” Arya flared.

Alot of people misinterpret this as Arya not wanting to be a noblewoman, because she only likes to play with swords, and get dirty. Because acting like a lady is stupid and not her. This is simply not true. Arya has no problem with women, or being a lady. She is a lady. A highborn one. What she does have a problem with is that being a lady often means being trapped in the conformities of what society percieves to be the acceptable standard for women in this time period.

All of the acceptable standards is what Sansa is. And she is not like Sansa. She does not believe herself to be a lady like her sister or her mother. When she first reveals her true identity to Gendry in ACOK, he immediately apologizes to her for his behavior and calls her m’lady. :3 Arya unfortunately sees this as a form of mockery and an attack because while Gendry acknowledges that she is a lady, Arya doesn’t act like a typical lady or even look like one. That insecurity of not being a lady like her mother and sister makes her believe that Gendry is using her sex against her. Like a form of irony. But I mean, we all know that’s far from the truth, lol!

And Jon recognizes this too! It’s the reason why they are so close and tightly knit together. Because Jon understands Arya, and sees her insecurity like how she sees his. They are one and the same. Jon sees and understands Arya’s frustrations of sexism viewed in Westeros. He acknowledges that Arya is to become a lady. But he also sees that Arya is not the conventional type of lady wanting to stick to the norms. She is a different type of lady, and to him, that is okay. He may tease her for it once in a while, pointing out all the unfair limitations that women have to go through. But he accepts her for being this unconventional noblewoman, and often encourages her to pursue being different.

“Girls get the arms but not the swords. Bastards get the swords but not the arms. I did not make the rules, little sister.”

Later when Jon and Arya say their goodbyes, Jon gifts Arya with the swords. Needle. This is his way of saying, fuck all them haters, be who you wanna be. Solidifying the idea that he supports her and accepts her for who she is. Kinda like how Tyrion told him to use his identity as armour, Arya should do the same to herself. It’s okay to be different than the rest. Fuck the rules.

It’s not that Arya hates the idea of being a lady. It’s a far cry from that. It’s the sexism that goes along with being the typical lady that infruiates her. Arya loves running around, riding horses, playing with swords, being loud and adventurous. She has a firery temper to her. And just because she likes doing all of that, and is all of that, it doesn’t mean, shouldn’t mean that she isn’t a lady. That she can’t be a lady. All of those things shouldn’t limit her to being viewed as a girl, a highborn lady. She is a woman, and she identifies as one.

“Listen to him, boy.”

“It was the third time he had called her “boy.” “I’m a girl,” Arya objected.

That is why, even though she sees herself as a woman, she often tells herself and other people that she is not a lady. Despite others telling her that she is one. Her insecurity and her frustrations do not allow her to see herself as a lady because she isn’t a “conventional woman.”

But the thing is, even though Arya doesn’t enjoy most of the typical lady-like things, she still has a ton of femininity to her. And people often ignore her more feminine traits in favor of her more “badassery” side, which unfortunately are most often occupied by men. People forget and downright ignore that Arya is really intelligent. She particularly excels in math. It’s one of the few things that she’s better at than Sansa. She loves flowers—like her aunt Lyanna. The very person who she’s said to look and act like the most. And a really important one is that she has motherly instincts. It’s what helps her protect other kids throughout her journey. Her ability to empathize enables her to be more social with outcasts and befriend others without judgement. She is well-mannered and kind to strangers. (An example of this would be when she apologizes to a common woman who lent her a dress to wear, and she accidentally destroys it because she and Gendry were playing by the acorn tree.) She can also cook and clean just like any other woman—or any other person. All of those are feminine traits, and are traits that make her more human. And the show opted to get rid of all that and gave us some cold-hearted, angry, ninja.

The audience perceives that because Arya is this ninja warrior who rejects the common standards of being a lady, it means that she can’t have these other more female traits. Nope. She’s not allowed to have or want more rights and power because that’s not her. She’s a warrior and nothing more. She can’t find love because she has to be this bad-ass independent woman who don’t need no man. That’s not her, that’s her sister. We can’t have Arya be any more female than she already is because she rejects the idea of being female. Leave all that crap to her sister! Sansa’s the princess—and we can’t have Arya being a princess or queen. Arya’s only allowed to carry a sword.

And it’s the audience’s perception of her that goes against everything that Arya is, and everything that she believes in. Because remember, Arya hates the idea that being a lady means being trapped in the societal norms. And it can be said vice versa too. Arya still respects those who want to be more of the conventional type. Arya may not have the more typical feminine traits that make her a lady, but to hell with it! It doesn’t mean that she’s not allowed to have the other things that the more conventional woman would/should have. That goes against all of her views and beliefs. The audience puts Arya at an unfair standard because she doesn’t act like a conventional woman.

It’s the same thing as the audience saying that Jon Snow doesn’t want a title or power, because he’s devoted his life to the Nights Watch and is unselfish. False. Very false. Just like Arya. Arya’s young. She still has time to grow, and no doubt she doesn’t think of all those things now because of other priorities. But she’s slowly getting there. And there is so much foreshadowing of her finding love, becoming a woman gaining power, etc, etc. She’s not there yet, but that’s a part of her growth. Just because she defies the typical female standards, it doesn’t mean she doesn’t want or wont want all those things later.

Like com’on. Everyone knows that Arya is the only legitimate candidate right now to inherit the North. Everyone knows. The Northmen know, the Nights Watch knows, the people in Kings Landing knows. Hell, even the damn wildings know this. And it’s because of this knowledge that formed the majority of the northern plotline in ADWD. People are going to war for her. She is the true key to the North, and that’s why the Boltons lied and said that they have her. It’s why Jon went to war and died for her. I don’t think Arya will truly believe it if/when she finds out that people are fighting for her because she holds the power to the North. Unless Jon’s gonna be the one to tell her himself. The fact that she is being set up to inherit all this power, and yet people deny it and believe that she doesn’t want it because it’s “not her” in regards that she’s not feminine enough, is seriously infuriating.

I mean look at the type of women Arya respects and idolizes. Where do you think she got the name Nymeria from? Nymeria’s name originates from the Princess of Dorne herself, Princess Nymeria of Ny Sar. Princess Nymeria was said be very beautiful, strong-willed, cunning, and full of wisdom. She was a “warrior-queen.” From that alone, her femininity clearly did not matter. She was a woman whose goals were not held back because of her femininity and sex.

Arya does not hate femininity or things that makes women more feminine. She doesn’t truly hate wearing dresses or being a lady. It’s being conformed to the general standards that she hates. It’s her sex being used against her that makes her angry. It’s not being able to be herself that she despises. And thanks to Sansa and her mother’s judgement of her, Arya’s insecurity only heightened. Despite looking exactly like Lyanna, Arya herself believes that she’s not beautiful enough to even be considered a lady. Only Jon and Ned allowed Arya to be Arya. Only they called her beautiful, and only they encouraged her to be who she wanted to be. Arya loves her fellow women. And yeah, she also loves Sansa despite her being such a pain in the ass bitch, lol.

Arya’s character encourages women to just be women. She encourages us the audience to just be ourselves despite all the conformities forced upon us. Her character explores the limitations of sex, gender, and especially the loss of identity. Arya not wanting to be a lady doesn’t actually mean she doesn’t want to be a lady. She doesn’t want to be held back by the standards of being a lady. Her question, her argument is that why should women be limited only to being this or that. Women are far more than meets the typical standard, and if society can’t accept it, then fuck that! Women can be knights and still be a lady. They can be fierce and passionate and emotional and still be a lady. Women can be warriors and still be a lady. Just because there are some women out there who don’t fit the ideal standards of what it means to be lady, it shouldn’t make them feel like less than one.

[ramblings-of-a-mad-cat]

I feel sorry for Shireen but she's hardly the "best Baratheon" when Gendry and his father are right there. I get the feeling you don't like Stannis though.

Oh my good anon, you have no idea. Do not get me started on Shireen. Because I will cry, and rage. Not at you, but there will be tears and anger. (Also I low key wish another character had said this because it's the perfect line but Viserys is trash. Love the actor though.)

Anyway, I have a lot to say about this.

House Baratheon appears to be a fan favorite among the Game of Thrones fandom and for the life of me, I don't understand why. I'm not here to step on anyone's favorites, I'm not out here saying the Baratheons suck or anything. They have a cool theme, a neat sigil, and some interesting characters. But it's always Robert, Stannis, and to a lesser extent Gendry, who are propped up as the favorite characters from this House. Never Renly, for some reason - even though he appeared in about as many episodes as Gendry, when all is said and done...and never Shireen.

I adore Gendry, I find Robert amusing...and though he's flawed, I think Renly is easily the most likeable of his brothers and would probably have made for the best king, if one was to choose between the three of them. Which is not to say he'd have made a good king, because it's clear he wasn't ready. But Stannis wouldn't have been a good king either. He'd have certain strengths that Renly wouldn't, but that's not necessarily an endorsement. Tommen was the complete opposite of Joffrey, and in some ways, that was actually a detriment because it allowed the Sparrows to walk all over him and later manipulate him. Would Joffrey have let that happen? Of course not. It's good that he was removed from power, but Tommen had his own weaknesses. The same applies here. Robert ruled in peace time and he had good advisors, so everything was basically okay. Renly was sociable and good hearted but he also felt entitled to the throne for no real reason and I got a pretty clear sense that he was naive. But Stannis? He might have made for a decent King before he converted, I suppose. But even then.

Robert is very much a mixed bag. I know Ned loves him and considers him a dear friend, and normally Ned's opinion of a character is a good indicator of who they are...but not always. He had a real blind spot for Robert. I don't fault him for wanting to spend his time at brothels, I don't fault him for being an alcoholic, but his established tendency toward rage, his line "Killing things clears my head." That...is disturbing. Sure, he may not enjoy cruelty like Joffrey does, but I believe Joffrey is a product not just of Cersei's grooming, but of seeing Robert as a King with a unchecked temper. I likewise don't blame him for cheating on Cersei - that marriage was mutually loveless, she was likewise cheating on him, and also...it's Cersei. She's the worst. But that's not an excuse to hit her, never. Or just generally treat her the way he treated her from the beginning. It's not her fault that his first love died. In general, Robert has the "Snape" like quality of idealizing a dead woman that he loved, who never actually felt the same way.

The Snape parallel continues when we come to Jon Snow, easily the starkest proof (no pun intended) of Robert's flaws. Technically, he never knew about Jon's heritage, so we don't know what he would have done. To be fair, we don't know. But we also don't know what he would have done if he had learned the truth about Cersei's children. Doesn't change the fact that everyone who knew Robert made the same calculation about him. They all assumed that he would kill children and babies without hesitation. He had no problem ordering the death of a pregnant teenager just because of her family name. We'll never know if Robert would have turned on the children he raised as his own, but Ned and Cersei both seem to think that he would. That's depressing as hell. Look, I know Robert's funny, I know he's one of the characters to take things less seriously, but his anger issues and his sense of entitlement toward Lyanna are warning signs that, had the story turned out differently, he could have been a terrifying villain. Here's something I've always wondered...did he know Lyanna chose Rhaegar? Did he know that she wasn't kidnapped?

There isn't much to say about Renly or Gendry. Neither of them appear that much and both of them are quite likeable. Gendry is a good person. He's like the very best of Robert. Hell, people have pointed out the parallels and the line from Robert "I have a son, you have a daughter, we'll join our Houses." How it can apply to Gendry x Arya. (Or could, if she hadn't dumped him, I suppose.) Literally Gendry is like a less toxic version of Robert. He's kinder and less angry, so he actually get the girl - for one night, anyway. As for Renly? I liked him. He wasn't perfect, but he and Loras were sweet together, and in general it can't be easy to be gay and live in Westeros. Hell, I would have supported his claim for no other reason that the knowledge that he would probably legalize gay marriage (or at least relationships) when he took the throne. But ultimately, he had no right to it. The true heir of the Baratheon dynasty was either Joffrey or Stannis, depending on if you believed the rumors. There was no interpretation that serviced Renly's claim. He simply wanted it based on the idea that he was best for it. Which is rather arrogant. Renly was a good guy, he was kind and caring...but he got in way over his head.

But I need to discuss Stannis, because I have...feelings, about this guy.

Stannis is a fan favorite, and when I say that sentence, I always have to bite my tongue before I instinctively add "for some fucking reason." Because I now know the reason, he was apparently gutted in the adaptation. I haven't read the books yet, so I'm only going off show-Stannis, but show-Stannis never impressed me. Even before he did what he did to Shireen (I will get to that, believe me.) I just got a bad vibe from him. He was so certain that he was right and was completely unwilling to hear other points of view. He gave Melisandre way too much leeway despite the red flags (no pun intended) and her magic being an unknown and unpredictable force. I guess he was into her or whatever, but morally speaking? She burned people alive with a smile on her face because they chose other religions. And logically? It was a poor decision to trust her so completely when she clearly followed "Her Lord" above anyone else, including Stannis.

But that's not to say it's just about Melisandre, though that's a major part of it. Look, the whole environment surrounding Stannis' family is strange and toxic. There's this unspoken tension between him, his wife, and his daughter. It's like he and Selyse have broken up but won't admit as much. The fact that her stillborn sons are treated as her failing Stannis, the fact that she keeps them in jars...it's creepy as all hell. You know, I'm no fan of Selyse either. She is way too devoted to this whole Lord of the Light thing, and she openly hates her own daughter. Why? I guess because she's not as wild about having to convert? Or maybe it's because Shireen is the only surviving child and isn't a boy? Or maybe it's because she's disfigured. Whatever the reason, Selyse is just someone I strongly dislike and I don't see people talking about her very much. Maybe it's because she has less agency than Stannis in everything that happens.

The show wants you to believe that Stannis was a good guy once, it really does. Ned Stark approved of him, and he gets along well with Jon on that basis. He offers to naturalize Jon, even. The show would have you believe that he descended into darkness gradually, that there was a time when he was honorable. To which I say...was there? Really? Because one of the first things we see him do is cheat on his wife (Who "disgusts" him, apparently) with Melisandre to produce a "son" that lives for two days and serves no other purpose than to assassinate his little brother. I know he was a political rival, but that's ice cold. I'm not saying Stannis was evil by this point, but don't try to convince me he was ever a man of "honor." Yes Davos, I am talking to you. I adore Davos. But after Stannis killed Renly with no hesitation and was prepared to do the same to Gendry...oh Davos, you should have gotten Shireen out of there, damn the consequences. Hide her somewhere safe, because in hindsight, she was not safe with Stannis and if Davod wasn't so blinded by his loyalty to Stannis (the guy who cut off his fingers, mind you) he might have seen it.

I don't hate Stannis as much as I hate Melisandre. But I didn't mourn him for one moment. I've seen people post admiring comments on videos of that final clip where he draws his sword and heads into battle, and like...this is after Shireen's death. How anyone can be a fan of him after that is just...beyond me. I know, I know, she's still alive in the books...but much like with Jon's heritage, we can assume that this event from the show will happen in the books as well. Am I supposed to think of him as a tragic figure? Because I don't. I was never that invested in his storyline anyway. The most likeable he got was when he was onscreen with Jon...and even that was tainted by what he did to Mance Raider. Hey, why does Stannis get to execute the King Beyond The Wall by burning him alive? Isn't he like, the Night's Watch's prisoner? And one of high value? Shouldn't this be Thorne's decision? In general, Stannis has the same issue as other people on this show who are vying for the crown. He gets ahead of himself. He threatens to punish Jon for mercy-killing Mance...even though he doesn't sit on the Iron Throne yet, and the Night's Watch have their own justice system that is beyond the reach of the King anyway. Just, the sense of entitlement is more subdued in Stannis than other characters, but it's there.

But none of that compares to his greatest sin.

I am not kidding when I say that Shireen's death is the single hardest moment to sit through in all of Game of Thrones. At least for me. The Red Wedding? No, I can handle that. Daenerys torching King's Landing? Easy. Ned Stark's death? Give me that any day. No, it's this. Shireen's death makes me genuinely sick to my stomach when I watch it. This moment is so despicable that I can barely sit through it even after multiple attempts to re-watch that episode. It's worse than any moment Ramsay is onscreen. Just, no...and unlike other tragedies in this show like Ned's death or the Sept of Baelor getting blown up...there isn't any one person to blame or hate for this. Selyse, Stannis, Melisandre, all of the men who stood by and did nothing...all of them share responsibility. Melisandre is definitely the most culpable, but it was Stannis who had the final say and he chose to do that. I know Selyse regretted it at the very last second and later hanged herself...but no, that's too little, too late. Hearing Shireen scream for her father and beg him to let her down...while he just stares ahead? No. Even writing about it makes my hands shake. He murdered his daughter for no reason. In earlier episodes he acts like he's only pursuing the throne out of duty, not because he wants it. No, I don't buy that excuse for one moment. Tell that excuse to Shireen's ashes. God, the poor thing. And poor Davos.

Man, when you really break it down, House Baratheon is just tragedy after tragedy. Sure, it may not be as blatantly toxic as House Lannister and the show doesn't lead you to empathize with them like it does for House Stark...but still. There's no love between any of the Baratheons. Robert doesn't love his brothers, Stannis doesn't love his wife...Cersei's children (who I consider Baratheons; they were raised by Robert and carry his name) are living examples of this secrecy and contempt, of Cersei only wanting to have children with Jaime. House Baratheon is just flooded with lies, contempt, and kin-slaying. (Most of it from Stannis.)

[alinaastarkov]

Worst game of thrones hairstyles and why. Go!

Hi! Thanks for the ask! I profusely apologise for the extensive rant that is about to follow.

I thought, before we jump into negativity, I would list some of my faves. I liked the hair more than the costumes, and a few of these were really pretty. Here we go!

These are some of my faves and I will just run through a few of them. Dany’s hair was really good until the enormous braids started coming in. At the start, with a few really pretty braids, and especially when she had her hair down cause it made her look so soft, she looked amazing. It showed Daenerys the queen and Daenerys the girl at the same time. Her hair in these early seasons is what Arya’s should have been. The same goes for Catelyn and Cersei. These styles were understated but pretty, and was all part of Catelyn adapting to the Northern style and Cersei playing on her beauty to fool people. The same goes for Margaery. It incorporated braids and curls in a really fashionable way, matching her intelligence to her need to be underestimated. Sansa’s hair in King’s Landing (when it was down) was pretty too as she adapted to her surroundings and the people around her, but it was still soft and gentle like her. Petyr is here because he looks the most like his book character, I think out of everyone. They really cast and styled him perfectly. Jon’s bun style was the closest to book!Jon he ever got, and though I love his curls, I preferred this to his earlier looks. It helps that it matched his father’s and Arya’s hair, too, so for the first time (because of poor casting) we saw the family resemblance. And these styles for Arya, apart from maybe a few in the HOBAW, were the only times she looked like a Northerner and was allowed to look like a girl. It’s not perfect, as her Northern braids aren’t woven into loose hair, but it did make her look a little wild and were the only times we saw a proper Northern hairstyle done well.

Now, onto the ones I don’t like:

I’ll get these in heere now because they’re not the worst. Joffrey and Tommen’s hair was weird. It’s not the long, golden waves as described in the books, they don’t really look like Lannisters apart from the colour, and the hair itself did not work with the crowns they both wear, especially Joffrey. I don’t know, it’s not terrible, but the men’s hair was mostly unremarkable, so, scraping the bottom for these. And then young Ned. *sigh* Why did 20-or-whatever-year-old Ned have the exact same hair as Sean Bean? He hasn’t changed his hair in 17 years? Lazy and boring and makes no sense. He should also have darker hair but that’s a book thing, so…

From now on, we’re gonna tackle this by character. Up first: Margaery Tyrell

Margaery almost escaped this list because her hair was often really good. As with the outfits, I know she was supposed to be pious, but the hair was a miss in that situation. It was basic and boring, and so far removed from the Margaery we had seen before. Why is her hair straight all of a sudden when it has always been curly? And the way she tied it back when she wore that awful dress in season 2 looked very strange. As for her wedding with Tommen, there was the opposite problem. As Tommen was younger, she needed to look more innocent and sweet, but instead they went over the top to make her look elaborate and rich, almost emphasising that her family was ambitious. Normally her hair and clothes struck a balance between innocent and ambitious, but this just went too far and it didn’t really fit her face. Though, I have to say, I don’t despise any of Margaery’s looks.

Now, Cersei Lannister

Some of these just made absolutely no sense. The helmets of braids she got, one of which was lopsided, just looked awful. It was far too much and they’re never seen again, which shows how bad they were. I don’t even know what her hair was supposed to be during the tourney but it didn’t work at all. And her short hair didn’t always look terrible, but it got far too shaggy for a Queen and here it didn’t fit the clothes she was wearing in this picture.

The Sand Snakes

Once again, I am simply bored by the Dornish characters in the show. There is no variation or variety, very little thought put in other than hair that might be useful in battle. They didn’t care to give them anything interesting and it shows. Where is Tyene, with her flowing golden hair? Where is Nymeria’s soft but deadly features? Where is the variation? It’s boring and does a disservice to the Sand Snakes.

Sansa Stark

I liked Arya’s northern braids, but Sansa’s version did not work. They were a lot messier than Arya’s (ironic, isn’t it?) and it wasn’t styled properly to fit the image of a proper northern/ southern lady. She would have been better off with hair more like her mother’s rather than braids, both aesthetically and storywise. Her hair in King’s Landing early on was similar to Cersei’s, which was definitely a bad thing. Her hair, which looked like a massive headband, was not as bad as Cersei’s version, but it wasn’t a good look. There were no strands or enough loose hair to properly frame the face, so that became the only thing to focus on and it didn’t work. Now, Sansa’s second wedding looked alright mostly (though I was not the hugest fan of the dress but I’ll get into that in another ask) but the hair was an issue story-wise. There was this thing going on with the Starks, supposedly the wildest and most rugged of the great families, where their hair was constantly super tight and pulled back, restrained when it should be free and wild. I know Sansa was being held against her will, but this wedding is also to give the Boltons a claim to Winterfell, so they needed to emphasise that she was a Stark, and that includes having Northern hair.

And once again we have the opposite problem. Her coronation hair had nothing to it. It was completely straight, unadorned and had no northern-ness to it at all. There were no waves to give it a bit of depth. It was super plain, boring and unimaginative. Then the Dragonpit, though it looked good, at that point Sansa had betrayed her Northern heritage and her family, so she shouldn’t have been the most northern-looking person on the screen. Once again, this is a style that Arya should have had, not Sansa.

Arya Stark

Just like the costumes, she had the same hair for 3 seasons. It got old quick, especially when she has different hair in the books during this time. It made sense for 1 season, not 3.

This monstrosity was one of the worst hairstyles in the show. The one time Arya gets the chance to dress like a girl, and this is the hair that goes with it? Really? It didn’t frame her face well, it reduced the feminine aspects that Arya was finally getting to express, and was a clear attempt to infantilize Arya and prevent the audience from thinking of her as a woman. It was also not a very nice style on its own; the buns should have been further back, but that would have been space buns and so very inaccurate, so she should have just worn it down anyway. Huge miss on this one. Super ugly. Only upside is she finally got the blue flowers she deserved.

This is what I said about the Starks having restrained, pulled back hair and it’s especially egregious for Arya, who is sooooo Northern and so wild. She needed her hair down, with braids woven in, longer and more natural. Instead, her hair looks like it’s covered in tar and there is nothing natural or northern about it. Once again, I am bored by the looks. And she kept this for two seasons straight, never changing. It’s ridiculous. The makers of this show just didn’t care about Maisie or Arya and it shows visually. It makes no sense for the princess of the north to have the same hair and clothes for years, with zero variation, especially when Sansa and Dany are out here with a new look every episode, sometimes two in a single episode.

This is what Arya’s hair should have looked like:

It’s extremely disappointing what we got instead.

Daenerys Targaryen

I mostly adored Dany’s hair, but as the seasons went on her braids got more and more elaborate and fake, and it started to become painfully obvious that it was a wig with huge braids stuck on. The looks with huge buns in the back just looked a bit silly, and I feel bad for Emilia who must have been so weighed down by all of that on her head. The braid she wore beyond the wall, and the one on the bottom row second from the right, were just a bit messy. As I said, her hair became a bit insane as it went on, making it less believable and less beautiful. And her finale hair, whilst fine from the front, was the most obvious example of braids being stuck on. It was basically a helmet and it made no sense. The braids were far too big and it didn’t work.

Sorry for the rant, nonny, but thank you for the ask!

[madamebaggio]

Hot night for Sansa Stark and Arthur Pendragon.

Things just got pretty serious between Rockstar Arthur Pendragon and Pop Princess Sansa Stark. The couple was caught in a very intimate moment during a party at Producer William Hart’s house. Inside sources say they “were all over each other the whole night”, with Arthur introducing Sansa as his girlfriend to his friends. After a few moments in a dark room, the couple retired for the night, clearly for a more intimate moment. 

Chapter 10 

It was Shae’s frantic knocking that woke Sansa up. She had a bad feeling before she even got to the door, because this wasn’t normal. Shae didn’t go around knocking on her door like the house was on fire. Something had happened.

“Sansa…” Shae spoke softly as soon as Sansa opened the door.

“What happened?” Sansa demanded.

Shae just sighed and passed her the tablet. It was a picture of her and Arthur, clearly taken from inside the house. Someone -one of the guests -had found them kissing and taken a picture. They had just kissed, because Arthur was serious about respecting her wishes, and she’d liked him even more for it.

However, she had been sitting on his lap, and -as nobody knew what happened after that -it was easy to assume it had been way more heated that it’d actually been.

And it was what the headline suggested.

“Hot night for Sansa Stark and Arthur Pendragon.”

“Sansa…” Shae called softly.

“Does Brienne already know?” She asked.

“She called me.” Shae admitted. “She isn't happy. She wanted to kill Bedivere, because it was a private party, this shouldn’t have happened.”

“It’s not his fault.” Sansa sighed. “How about Arthur?”

“He didn’t call me, but he has your number.”

Yes, he did, and if he hadn’t called, something wasn’t right. “I’ll call him.”

***

Arthur had gone out for a long run that morning, and that was the reason he didn’t have his phone and didn’t know what was going on.

However, as soon as he got to his apartment and opened the door, he knew something had happened, because Bedivere was there and he wasn’t happy.

“Arthur…”

Arthur ignored him and went straight to his phone, because if Bedivere was looking at him like that, the chances of it having something to do with Sansa were big.

“Don’t talk to her until I speak.” Bedivere asked.

Arthur paused, the phone in his hand. He could see that Sansa had already called him four times. “Then talk fast.”

“Someone took a picture of you two kissing at the party.”

“How? The curtains were pulled closed.”

“It was from inside the house.” Bedivere admitted.

“What?” Arthur growled. “Who was it?”

“I don’t know yet…”

“Then find out!” Arthur snapped. “This is unacceptable, Bedivere, and not only because of Sansa. Everybody that was invited was a friend, people I thought I could trust.”

Bedivere pressed his lips together, like he wanted to say something, but then he just nodded. Arthur didn’t even bother in continue this conversation -but, fuck, he’d need to apologize later, Bedivere didn’t deserve to be treated like this -he pressed the button to call Sansa.

She answered on the second ring. “Arthur! Where have you been?”

“I’m sorry, Sansa, I was running.” He pressed the heel of his hand against his eye. “Are you fine?”

“No.” She sighed. “I hate this. Have you seen the picture? Have you read the article?”

“No, and neither should you. I know…” He pressed when he heard the beginning of a protest. “I know this isn’t…” He sighed. “This is my fault.”

Sansa sighed. “That took a turn. Arthur, it’s not. I don’t blame you, ok? I don’t know if you think I do, but I don’t. It’s just that… After everything with Cersei and Joffrey, I hate to be featured in a tabloid like this.”

“And you aren’t wrong. I hate this too.” He took a deep breath. “I’ll find out who did it, okay?”

She sighed once again. “Ok. Call me.” And she hung up, leaving Arthur with a whole on his chest.

***

It didn’t take long to find out who was responsible for that. Bill had a lot of contacts, and through that they found out what happened.

Rubio -the boy from the comics -had been invited to the party. He took the picture and send it to a friend, and this friend sold it.

The boy insisted he didn’t know his friend would do that, but it wasn’t the point. He took the fucking picture, and this was the main problem. It was such a breach in privacy that Arthur told Bedivere to cancel the comic. He didn’t care if he had to personally pay some kind of fine, if he was sued or whatever.

Even if it hadn’t been a picture of them together, even if Sansa wasn’t involved, this was unacceptable.

And the tabloids were having a field day with it. This was what Arthur hated the most: the supposed ‘close friends’ telling what was happening, people talking about them as if they knew them, fuckers who had the nerves of calling themselves ‘specialists’ evaluating their relationship.

Besides all of that, there were still fans from both sides giving their opinion about it, as if Sansa and Arthur were their property and they had rights to their relationship somehow.

He was so fucking pissed that Bedivere had confiscated his phone, worried that he’d start some sort of Twitter war with everyone.

His bandmates were supportive, and they were also angry about the situation.

And Sansa… After the story got traction and became more than just one picture on a tabloid, she became distant, sending less messages and hardly ever answering her phone. Arthur was getting concerned that this whole circus would make him look like too much trouble to her.

So when he called Shae to ask how things were and she told him that Sansa had gone to visit her parents, he had a minute of panic.

Then he decided that fuck it, he was going after her.

***

Sansa hadn’t meant to run away from the situation. She really hadn’t, and she wasn’t proud of herself.

However, as the days passed and the subject wouldn’t die she fell into a spiral. She started remembering how were things right after she left Joffrey and broke her contract with Cersei, all the people analyzing her situation and giving opinions and saying terrible things about her.

Those flashbacks took her to a dark place: the days when she was convinced she was fat and needed to lose weight urgently, the days when she was worried Joffrey might slap her, but still worried he’d leave her, when she wanted to please Cersei so badly she’d talk shit about her own family.

She didn’t want to run, but she had to. She felt like a mess, and she worried that Arthur would give up on her because of all that. She called her therapist and tried to calm down, but she realized she needed her mother. Desperately.

Catelyn was waiting for her with open arms when she went to Montana. She let her daughter cry on her shoulder.

“You know… I had my doubts about that boy, but…” She gave a resigned sighed. “He doesn’t seem so bad. Why don’t you call him?”

“What if he thinks I’m too much work?” Sansa asked, for the first time voicing that fear.

“Then he doesn’t deserve you.” Cat told her simply. “And I know it’s easy for me to say this, I know.” She insisted. “But you deserve so much love, Sansa. It really hurts me to see you thinking you don’t.”

Sansa had nothing to say to that. She’d worked so much on herself, her therapist had been so good and patient, but she didn’t feel like she was better. She was still running, wasn’t she?

“Sansa?”

Sansa and Cat turned to Ned, who was hovering by the door. “Yes, dad?”

“That Pendragon boy is here.” He told her, like he couldn’t believe it himself.

“What?” She almost fell from the couch.

“He is here.” Her father repeated. “He didn’t come in, he told me he’d wait to see if you wanted to talk to him.”

Sansa looked at her mother. “The choice is yours, darling.” Cat indicated. “But, for what’s worth, he deserves an answer too.”

Sansa sighed and got up, thanking her dad.

Arthur was outside, leaning against a motorcycle, looking so much like the bad boy he was supposed to be, that Sansa couldn’t hold back a smile.

“This is turning into stalking.” She said as a greeting. “How did you find me?”

 He shrugged. “Your sister.”

 “Traitor.” She grumbled, but it was without heat. ‘What do you want?”

 “To give you a ride, Red.” He offered her a helmet. “Hop on.”

She didn’t hesitate to grab the helmet and climb on the bike. If there was one thing Sansa knew, it was that she could trust Arthur.

“I know where we can go.” She offered.

Arthur nodded and drove away. She’d point turns to him, but they didn’t go that far. Her parents’ state was big, but she had a favorite spot.

Once they got there she took off her helmet and climbed off. Arthur did the same.

“I’m glad you decided to see me, Sansa.” He told her honestly.

“I’m sorry I left.” She told him simply.

“I’m not angry or anything. It’s okay that you need space, sometimes I do too.” He told her. “But… If we… If this happens… Can you please talk to me before taking off?”

Her heart stopped for a second. “You still want to do this?”

“Of course I do. Nothing changed, Sansa.” He took a deep breath in. “Unless you’re actively fighting against it. I gave up a long time ago.”

 Sansa snorted. “Can you imagine the headlines? Princess of the Pop and Bad Boy of the Rock?”

 “I honestly don’t care. Do you?” There was real concern in his voice now.

“I’m afraid of disappointing you.” She admitted.

“Why would you?” He asked kindly.

“Because you’re so brave, and I’m here hiding.”

“I’m not brave, Red.” He came closer and picked her hand up. “I’m fucking terrified. I flew all the way here…”

“Rented a bike…”

“I have a reputation to keep.” He agreed smoothly. “Just because I was scared that you were about to ditch me.”

Sansa seemed horrified by the thought. “Me? I thought you were going to realize I’m a mess.”

“Well, you are a mess -a hot one, by the way…”

Sansa snorted, but Arthur didn’t stop. He cupped her face. “But I’m nowhere near perfect. I’m also a bit of a mess. And I don’t care if you need time, if you need space. Whatever you need, if I can give it to you, I will. I want to be by your side. I just hope you want me there.”

“For chrissake!” Her voice was teary. “Why do you have to be so good?”

Arthur chuckled and rested his forehead against her. “I’m not, don’t feed my ego. It doesn’t require help.”

Sansa’s chuckle was a bit watery. “So you want to try?”

“I do.” He told her honestly. “Can we do this together?”

“One condition.” She told him seriously.

“Name your price.” He replied immediately.

“A duet.” She grinned up at him.

Arthur barked a laughter. “You want us to sing together?”

“Yes, and I already have the song.”

His grin became a thing of beauty. “Whatever you want, Red.”

***

Notes: So this was supposed to be the last one, but I felt it’d be too rushed if I kept it that way.

As it has been a looooong while since I updated this, you can check the full work on my AO3 page.

We’ll have a short chapter to close the story and talk about the duet ;)

Also, I used Rubio like this, because he clearly gave the resistance up on the movie, so he’s clearly not to be trusted.

Fine, I might be bitter about that.

[peterpstuff]

night walks

Pairing: Peter Parker x reader Request: no Warnings: some assholes being stalkers, street harassment, Game of Thrones spoilers ?? a/n: I got inspired but a comic someone made here and now I can´t find it, credits to them. Also, post credit scenes in ffh didn´t happen. I feel like Peter Parker would be a big fan of Game of Thrones.

As you stepped out of the subway you tighten your jacket around your shaking body. Tonight was exceptionally cold in Brooklyn for an autumn night. You finished your shift at a restaurant, took the subway and walked to your house. You hated your job; it was on the other end of Manhattan and made you wear a stupid uniform which consisted on a red skirt and white shirt, allowing you to use a red blazer if you were cold. The subway left you about twenty blocks away from your house, which meant you had to walk all by yourself in the dark streets of Brooklyn. You never really had any troubles with it, until today.

Within the first block you saw two men sitting by the end of some stairs from an old building, they looked up and down your body before whistling your way. You avoided them by holding onto your blazer even more and not even looking their way. It didn´t work since you heard steps behind you, followed by some muffled voices.

“Hey pretty girl, what´s the hurry?” one of the men said, obviously close enough for you to hear.

“We just wanna talk” said the other one.

You took your heels off so that you were able to walk faster. Fear was running through your veins, your palms sweaty, your breathing quicker than normal. You turned to your left in hope that they´d leave you alone only to find a black and red shape sitting by the end of some stairs; without a doubt you approached him. When you were in front of him you saw he had a sandwich in his hands, not eaten yet. You smiled his way and he cleared his throat.

“Can I help you?”

“so… mmm… there´s this two men who have been following me for quite some time and I was wondering if you could walk me home?” you said as you played with your fingers.

“Yeah, sure…”

“y/n” you continued

“I´ll gladly walk you home y/n” he said as he stood up.

As soon as he stood up, the two men that had been following you appeared. They looked your way, realizing you had now company; you were with no other than Spiderman. Both of the men tried to play dumb and whistled their way back from where they came from.

“So… why are you walking by yourself at 1am?” Spiderman asked as you both started walking.

“Just got off from work. I´m sorry for making you do this, I know you have better crimes to fight like monsters and villains and stuff” you apologized.

“Don´t worry is nice to have some tranquility once in a while” you could sense that he was smiling “have you eaten dinner yet?” he asked.

“Not really” you shrug your shoulders.

“Take this then” he said as he handed you his sandwich.

“Thank you” you smiled at him, you were starving.

You both walked side by side while you ate. You both talked about anything and everything, you felt secure by his side. It was not only because he was Spiderman but something else, you felt warm and safe, you felt as if you had known him for years.

“Oh come on! He went back to Cersei! You can´t like him” Spiderman complained beside you.

“He went back to her because he felt like he had to, he was a good character” you rolled your eyes.

“But hands down Jon Snow is the best character, have you seen when he died and then he came back and… boom!” he made a mind blown gesture with his hands which made you laugh.

“That´s Peters´ favorite scene” you said without thinking.

“w-who´s Peter?” he tried to cover the fact that he was nervous as hell.

“Sorry, he´s my best friend. People always say I tend to talk about him a lot”

“Don´t worry… so you usually talk about Peter?”

“He´s my best friend and spend so much together, things just remind me of him” you shrugged.

“He´s very lucky to have you as a friend then”

“I feel like I´m the lucky one”

You stopped in front of your apartment; smiling at Spiderman.

“This is me. Thank you for the sandwich and the walk; it was pretty fun” you put a strand of your hair behind your ear.

“No need to thank me, I can walk you home anytime”

“Oh no, it´s okay. You probably have bigger crimes to fight”

“City has been pretty chill recently, it´s fine, seriously”

“I guess I´ll see you around then, thank you again” you smiled and waved at him before entering through the front door, watching Spiderman wave back before closing it.

[tidustargaryen]

“If Ned Stark was like Sansa“

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/cvr50s/if_ned_stark_was_like_sansa/

If only ! My Queen would still be alive because Robert would kill her murderer when he was a child. 

Unfortunately Ned was the only Stark to have the honor of keeping a promise. House Stark died at the end of season 1.

Robb also betrayed his promise for love.

Bran chose to shut up and let KL be burn. And he was a bastard for Meera !

Sansa is an oathbreaker and use the same proceed that she blamed her enemies for using. But she thinks she’s superior, better than Cersei... Cersei was also smiling when her enemies died (Sansa reaction to the news of Missandei’s death... And Ramsay, even if he deserved it) She was also a traitor, even if she thinks Daenerys was not her Queen, Jon was the King, he pledged the North to Daenerys, Sansa thinks she has the privilege of choosing who will be her King or Queen ? Sweet summer child ... I think a lot of people did not want Robert as King, unfortunately we do not always have what we want (I'm sure a lot of Americans who do not vote for Trump will understand this).

Arya... xenophobe ? Really ? After Essos ? Jaqen ? Micah ? And all the other low births she meets? She was not discriminating before... She’s not one of us... Ok the real fan of House Targaryen... it’s really coherent... She suddenly becomes the most fervent supporter of Sansa (WTF ??) and rejects the House she idolized a few years ago during all of her childhood ?

Rickon chose not to ZigZag... (sorry for this one xD)

Jon ... the one that looked most like Lord Stark .... The good joke. Oathbreaker, Kingslayer, Kinslayer ... Congratulations your honor is lower than that of Jaime Lannister. Him choosing to do his duty is not OOC, he was in love before, but he chose his duty for his brothers of the NW, not being a little more present for Dany during her mourning, it was OOC. Some would say that he had to choose his sisters, that's normal, and if his sisters would always be the most important, why swear to serve a Queen, he did not have to bend his knee, Dany had chosen to help the North without his support, it was his choice, his oath goes before anything, even his sisters, is not me who is inventing the time of the monarchy ... your King, your Queen, becomes a priority, the security of your sovereign mainly. And yet Jon chose to put Dany's life in danger, because he could not shut up his mouth a little longer ... So yes it's his family... as if they deserved it! And for what purpose ? To be separated from them and end his life north of the wall with his true people? Morality ? He always wanted to be a Stark, but was a Targaryen, in the end he chose to be neither of them? lol It’s shit. Seriously it's your job, do better than that, it's bad.

What a great legacy House Stark !!

Tywin must be so disappointed, he wanted so much that his children bring grandeur to House Lannister, by lies, betrayal, manipulation, he dreamed of it, but it is the Starks who did it :)

Jon could just as easily tell Dany when he was planting this dagger in her heart : The Starks send their regards.

[aegon]

literally I've never seen stans as annoying as sansa stans, like, it's your blog and you will do the gifsets you want to do, no one has to come and tell you to do those gifsets to other characters. And I'm sorry for them, because they try to force people to like Sansa, to make her as popular as Dany but it doesn't work that way, there's nothing new or revolutionary about her, even less in the show, she was the embodiment of a xenophobic rich white privilaged girl in s8!!

It should be clear not to conflate normal Sansa fans with the rabid kweeeen show character stans that won’t leave others alone. It’s the latter that have destroyed this fandom with their toxicity and inability to mind their own business. Normal fans just get dragged in the mud with them, it’s a shame.

I agree, it’s best to feel sympathy for the crazies. Imagine getting everything you wanted and still to be left unsatisfied. Also they haven’t really figured out that they’re like 70% of the reason why people have grown to dislike show!Sansa. You can’t force a character on others and expect they’ll suddenly start idolizing them, lol that’s not how this works.

I think book!Sansa is a fascinating character. I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss her because she’s a different kind of new to Dany, and her revolution is quieter and more subtle, but it’s just as much there as it is for Dany or Arya or Brienne or Cersei. She doesn’t nearly have the same dislikeable characteristics as her show counterpart. They’re both worlds apart, in every aspect.

Also Dany is so iconic, fucking politicians running for the presidency bring her up. She’s on the face of every piece of merchandising. She defines the show. When they messed her story up, everything fell apart. That’s power right there. Bless up.

[yeniayofnymeria]

SanSan “The Beauty and The Beast”

Hello!

Yes, I’m a Jonarya shipper but i could not resist to share this theory. :) 

Personally, at first I looked cold but warmed up over time; Sansa and Sandor relationship. I've done a few researches on the subject, and frankly, I haven't found a satisfactory level of theory. But I used the excerpts from the video of asoiaf-theories and bridgte4 (youtube).

For those who do not know, Sansan is a Sandor and Sansa love theory.

GRRM is someone who leaves a lot of hints on his books. Like the detective, we can trace these traces and see what can happen. While I was reading Sansa's POVs - I didn't even pay particular attention - I saw a lot of signs about these two.

PROBABILITIES

Firstly, Sandor and Arya decided to go to the Valley, but for various reasons they could not. If he comes back, he may have to go to the Valley for his own reasons and may find her there. Since there is apparently no reason to go back to the south, it may be the direction of the Valley, where he has tried to go before. Although the North seems to be a possibility in the future, we understand from the conversation with Arya that he has nothing to do with the cold north. As a matter of fact, Sansa is currently in the Valley and may not turn north until the 7th book.

When we think that Sandor is in love with Sansa, it's normal for him to want to protect her. Especially when he see that Sansa was trapped by LF... Of course he knows that LF is the one responsible for Ned's death, this would be a second reason to push him to make that decision.

Throughout the scenes in KL, Sandor occasionally protected Sansa in some respects (as much as he could); Supporting the lie made to prevent Dantos from being killed; He blocked it when Sansa decided to push Joff to kill him (otherwise she would die), and saved her from rape in the city. If you pay attention, he often walks around Sansa.

If we look at the last point Sansa has come to, we can conclude that Sansa is no longer afraid of Sandor. Thus, when they spend time together, she can make the bad-tempered warrior, who has a bad mouth, harsh and threatening, see something good in him. As a matter of fact, when he heard the story that his face burned, she felt sorry for him. When they spoke badly about him, she defended Sandor from within and said that he was only afraid of fire.

While Sansa is a young girl who dreams of a handsome and heroic knight, Sandor is an anti-hero who is exactly the opposite of the knights in these dreams, hating knights. If we consider the irony logic of GRRM, there may be a story Beauty and the Beast we will read with pleasure. (GRRM already has a TV show with this name for 3 seasons. So he likes this story.)

The fact that the first three letters of Sansa and Sandor are in harmony is a nice detail, but of course probably this is just coincidence.

Sandor is a 30-year-old young man, so he's not that old. As a matter of fact, we cannot say that there is a very incompatible age among them.

SANSAN FORESHADOWINGS

Septa Mordane sniffed in disapproval. "A noble lady does not feed dogs at her table," she said, breaking off another piece of comb and letting the honey drip down onto her bread.

"She's not a dog, she's a direwolf," Sansa pointed out as Lady licked her fingers with a rough tongue

...

The king was in no mood for more argument. "Enough, Ned, I will hear no more. A direwolf is a savage beast. Sooner or later it would have turned on your girl the same way the other did on my son. Get her a dog, she'll be happier for it."

After the Lady's death warrant, the king said, "get her a dog." says. Some readers think it's a FS for Sandor.(.Remember, Sandor is Joff's dog, later he can be Sansa's dog)

The rasping voice trailed off. He squatted silently before her, a hulking black shape shrouded in the night, hidden from her eyes. Sansa could hear his ragged breathing. She was sad for him, she realized. Somehow, the fear had gone away.

The silence went on and on, so long that she began to grow afraid once more, but she was afraid for him now, not for herself. She found his massive shoulder with her hand. "He was no true knight," she whispered to him.

I mentioned above; She's seeing the wound inside Sandor and she approach to it with a sense of sympathy / empathy. I can tell you that women have a weakness for wounded men. As a matter of fact, when Cersei first saw Rhaegar, she looked deeply into his sad eyes and wanted to heal his wounds.

"I like dogs better than knights... A hound will die for you, but never lie to you. And he'll look you straight in the face."

In this scene, Sandor protected Sansa from the King Guard. And the knights never protected Sansa, but the dog did. There may be a sign that Sandor will always be honest with Sansa and die to protect her. Actually, I think there might be a moment when he has to protect her against the Mountain, but I don't know how these three will come together. (Remember Bran's coma dream "shadows of Mountain, Jaime and Hound" around her and yes, Arya)

In first book, Loras gave Sansa a red rose and she took a sweet smell (Remember, sweet word and dead symbolism: https://www.reddit.com/r/pureasoiaf/comments/cr8snv/a_death_mark_in_asoiaf_sweet_spoiler_main/ ). Red one is symbolism for love and "sweet" is dead or almost die (Like Bran and Tyrion).

Also there is this https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/am3xzt/spoilers_extended_the_serpentine_steps_of_doom/

When i read it, i noticed this scene...

She was racing headlong down the serpentine steps when a man lurched out of a hidden doorway. Sansa caromed into him and lost her balance. Iron fingers caught her by the wrist before she could fall, and a deep voice rasped at her. "It's a long roll down the serpentine, little bird. Want to kill us both?" His laughter was rough as a saw on stone. "Maybe you do."

Of course it could be nothing but caught my attention.

"Enough," she heard the Hound rasp.

"No it isn't," the king replied. "Boros, make her naked."

...

"Someone give the girl something to cover herself with," the Imp said. Sandor Clegane unfastened his cloak and tossed it at her. Sansa clutched it against her chest, fists bunched hard in the white wool. The coarse weave was scratchy against her skin, but no velvet had ever felt so fine.

It is remarkable that Sansa clings to Sandor's cloak and feels safe. A similar cloak issue will repeat one or two more times in the future. It's all about Sandor's cloak. The cloak represents “protection..

She even sang for Tyrion the Imp and for the Hound. He is no true knight but he saved me all the same, she told the Mother. Save him if you can, and gentle the rage inside him.

Here we see that she slowly began to care for the Hound, and of course she was grateful for saving her, which she will remember again in the future and will say to LF(inside her); "hound saved me, not you."

If the theories are true, the anger within Sandor may be a bit diminished.

"I could keep you safe," he rasped. "They're all afraid of me. No one would hurt you again, or I'd kill them." He yanked her closer, and for a moment she thought he meant to kiss her. He was too strong to fight. She closed her eyes, wanting it to be over, but nothing happened. "Still can't bear to look, can you?" she heard him say. He gave her arm a hard wrench, pulling her around and shoving her down onto the bed. "I'll have that song. Florian and Jonquil, you said." His dagger was out, poised at her throat. "Sing, little bird. Sing for your little life."

...

Some instinct made her lift her hand and cup his cheek with her fingers. The room was too dark for her to see him, but she could feel the stickiness of the blood, and a wetness that was not blood. "Little bird," he said once more, his voice raw and harsh as steel on stone. Then he rose from the bed. Sansa heard cloth ripping, followed by the softer sound of retreating footsteps.

When she crawled out of bed, long moments later, she was alone. She found his cloak on the floor, twisted up tight, the white wool stained by blood and fire. The sky outside was darker by then, with only a few pale green ghosts dancing against the stars. A chill wind was blowing, banging the shutters. Sansa was cold. She shook out the torn cloak and huddled beneath it on the floor, shivering.

One of my favorite quotes shows how much Sandor really is in love. Then Sandor throws his cape and she takes it, and Sansa clings to Sandor's cape again, to get out of the cold. We know that she keeps hiding his cape and he doesn't even know why she's doing it. It is also a remarkable detail that the desire to touch his face with a moment of strange emotion occurs.

Ashford Tournament and King's Hand Tournament

Jonsa fans use the Ashford incident for Jonsa, but this is a Sansan theory.

"Is the Hound the champion now?" Sansa asked Ned.

"No," he told her. "There will be one final joust, between the Hound and the Knight of Flowers."

But Sansa had the right of it after all. A few moments later Ser Loras Tyrell walked back onto the field in a simple linen doublet and said to Sandor Clegane, "I owe you my life. The day is yours, ser."

In both the King's Hand and the Ashford, the Lady's champions were another, and the champion was completely unexpected. The unexpected champion in Sansa's tournament was Sandor.

Dunk stood up against to a tyrant. Sandor did the same thing (against his big brother). And Dunk was probably not even a knight. Sandor is not a knight either.

Imaginary Kiss

The most emphasized issue in SanSan theory is Sandor's kiss. Sandor never did that, but Sansa remembered twice that Sandor kissed him.

Readers comment that Sansa had romantic feelings for Sandor. This why she remember this way.

Megga couldn't sing, but she was mad to be kissed. She and Alla played a kissing game sometimes, she confessed, but it wasn't the same as kissing a man, much less a king. Sansa wondered what Megga would think about kissing the Hound, as she had. He'd come to her the night of the battle stinking of wine and blood. He kissed me and threatened to kill me, and made me sing him a song.

...

Sweetrobin threw his skinny arms around her and kissed her. It was a little boy's kiss, and clumsy. Everything Robert Arryn did was clumsy. If I close my eyes I can pretend he is the Knight of Flowers. Ser Loras had given Sansa Stark a red rose once, but he had never kissed her . . . and no Tyrell would ever kiss Alayne Stone. Pretty as she was, she had been born on the wrong side of the blanket.

As the boy's lips touched her own she found herself thinking of another kiss. She could still remember how it felt, when his cruel mouth pressed down on her own. He had come to Sansa in the darkness as green fire filled the sky. He took a song and a kiss, and left me nothing but a bloody cloak.

She thought of dreaming of the Knight of Flowers when Robin kissed her, but suddenly she found herself thinking of the hound. And she says this. "He left me with nothing but a bloody cloak."

Another detail that attracts my attention. It feels like a lover talking about her lover, what did she expect? What he should left behind him for her?

GRRM interviews about imaginary kisses.

You will see, in A Storm of Swords and later volumes, that Sansa remembers the Hound kissing her the night he came to her bedroom… but if you look at the scene, he never does. That will eventually mean something, but just now it’s a subtle touch, something most of the readers may not even pick up on,

And there is this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLynybVOi2I

Thank you for read.

[secretlyatargaryen]

I'm that poster that sent you that asked about Cat and Sansa's favoritism. I didn't ask you question to start another Arya versus Sansa circle-jerk. I looking at Sansa's relationship with her parents on micro level. There is not much textual to support Cat favoring Sansa over Arya, but there is textual support for Ned favoring Arya over Sansa. My Ned issues might flared-up, and that's why my ask came across as me trying to pit Sansa against Arya. Sorry about that.

Well, sorry for accusing you, but I did not say that Sansa was favored over Arya. I said that Sansa was favored as the dutiful daughter and perfect lady, and she was.

“Sansa was a lady at three, always so courteous and eager to please. She loved nothing so well as tales of knightly valor. Men would say she had my look, but she will grow into a woman far more beautiful than I ever was, you can see that. I often sent away her maid so I could brush her hair myself. She had auburn hair, lighter than mine, and so thick and soft … the red in it would catch the light of the torches and shine like copper.

“And Arya, well … Ned’s visitors would oft mistake her for a stableboy if they rode into the yard unannounced. Arya was a trial, it must be said. Half a boy and half a wolf pup. Forbid her anything and it became her heart’s desire. She had Ned’s long face, and brown hair that always looked as though a bird had been nesting in it. I despaired of ever making a lady of her. She collected scabs as other girls collect dolls, and would say anything that came into her head. I think she must be dead too.” When she said that, it felt as though a giant hand were squeezing her chest.

Obviously Catelyn loves both of her daughters, and again, it’s not a contest, and I feel like you’re still trying to make it one. But the Catelyn quote above IS textual evidence that shows great love for both her daughters, but also shows how she viewed them next to each other, and it does show that she considered Sansa to be the perfect image of a lady, and gave her special attention because of that.

Here’s another quote that shows Catelyn comparing the two girls and thinking about how Sansa is a perfect lady, where Arya needs work.

Sansa would shine in the south, Catelyn thought to herself, and the gods knew that Arya needed refinement.

I’m not trying to say Catelyn loved Arya less because of it, and I think metas about that are bonkers. I’ve seen a lot of metas by both Arya and Sansa fans about which child was loved best, and tbh, it’s bullshit. However, Sansa WAS considered by her parents to be the more perfect child, and Arya IS unfavorably compared to her sister because of her lack of ability to fit gender expectations.

And since someone else also brought up Catelyn’s favorite child being Bran, I guess that comes from this quote, which, is the sentence right after the one I previously quoted.

Reluctantly, she let go of them in her heart. But not Bran. Never Bran. “Yes,” she said, “but please, Ned, for the love you bear me, let Bran remain here at Winterfell. He is only seven.”

I can see why people could point to this quote especially to say Catelyn’s favorite child is Bran, but I still think it’s pretty silly. I don’t think either Ned or Cat had favorite children, and I think it’s weird and creates unnecessary drama to try and argue it. Because parenthood should never be a contest about which child is the favorite. As far as why Catelyn says this about Bran, she tells us in the quote. Bran’s her baby. He’s not the baby of the family, but he’s the youngest boy after Rickon, who is still literally a baby. He’s past babyhood but not yet a man. He’s in a position where in his society he’s beginning to be pushed into manhood - shown in how this story begins, with Ned bringing Bran to his first beheading (and I’ve talked before about how much I hate that SEVEN is considered the ripe age to witness a beheading, but whatev.) Catelyn can “let go” of sending her girls to the capital because girls are supposed to exist in the social sphere, and are raised with the purpose of joining another family. So Catelyn’s prepeared to let her girls go South, but Bran, her little boy on the cusp of manhood? She wants him to be a boy a little longer.

Now, do I think this viewpoint is damaging? Hell yeah I do, both to boys and girls, to consider girls as disposable and valuable for their ability to perform femininity and raise them with the mindset that they will soon enough leave the family and belong to some other man, and to treat boys as already grown men and not to allow them to have childhoods. Do I think this means Catelyn loves Bran the best? No, I don’t. This is also before Bran’s fall causes Catelyn to need him. But what I think it means is that she wants to hold on to that sweet, childish boy a little longer, because she knows what her society does to boys. She also knows what that society does to girls, and she knows it first hand, but again, I think her own upbringing comes into play here. Because she was the dutiful child, who grew up to be a woman who always knew her duty, with her daughters she is more resigned to the fact that they have to grow up and leave her. I think that’s what’s going on here. That’s also why I think she values so much Sansa’s ability to be the perfect, dutiful lady. It’s what SHE had to do, and although, as I’ve said before, she has her own problems with it, and her own trauma, she doesn’t know another way to live, and she’s also aware of how women are punished if they don’t conform. I think there’s a mixture of that in her thoughts about Sansa and Arya. That’s also why she calls out Robb when he won’t trade Jaime for the girls, and her thoughts on Sansa being married to Tyrion show that she fears the worst, because she knows what this society does to girls. She’d hoped, I think, that Sansa could find a good husband, the way she did, if she were always the dutiful lady, the way she was. But she knows what the worst scenario is. Which I think is both why she values Sansa’s ability to be a lady and worries for Arya.

I also am opposed to this discussion about Catelyn’s “favorite child” because I feel like there is more of a tendency to analyze Catelyn’s POV because she’s the mother. I think this is also a problem with the way GRRM writes her. Ned never has any monologues where he explains to the reader how he feels about each child. Ned’s feelings come out more organically in the narrative so they’re a little harder to parse.

I’ve seen the metas about how Arya is Ned’s favorite and they mostly use as proof that Ned sat and had that discussion with Arya about getting along with Sansa and about the danger in King’s Landing, where he apparently had no such discussion with Sansa, or if he did, it was offscreen. But I don’t think he felt the need to have that discussion with Sansa, because again, Sansa is the good girl. I think a lot of the criticisms leveled at Ned are that he let Sansa be naive, which I can see, but I think that’s because Sansa is supposed to be naive, she’s supposed to be the good girl, she’s supposed to do her duty. And there’s a strong social connection between femininity and purity, so I think Ned probably assumed that Sansa’s naivete was normal, or kept it that way on purpose, because pretty, pure, naive girls are valued and adored.

Arya, on the other hand, fails at being a lady. I think part of why Arya is less naive in certain respects than Sansa is because she didn’t grow up being idealized by people around her. So that could be a reason Ned finds it easier to talk to her and to be open with her. Arya is not an idealized image of femininity and thus less seen as in need of protection. I guess you could make a case that Ned finds it easier to relate to Arya because of this. 

You could also say that Ned blundered with Sansa during the Trident incident because he expected that it would be fairly straightforward to have her tell the truth in front of everyone. But Sansa is much more introverted than Arya. There’s also the fact that Sansa has increased social pressure to take Joffrey’s side, which Ned does understand, because he tells Arya so. Now, I guess Ned could have taken that information and spoke up during the incident, and maybe said “My daughter is hesitant to speak against her betrothed, but here’s what she told me in private…” But Ned is like Sansa in that he is also more introverted, so maybe that’s why he didn’t. And I think the situation quickly spiraled out of control from there because of the stronger personalities of Arya, Joffrey, Robert, and Cersei. And I’ve spoken about this before but I really get annoyed when people try and point blame over what happened at the Trident at anyone other than Joffrey and Cersei, because the whole thing is a huge clusterfuck and the people who are ultimately responsible are the people who know what really happened but who think they have the right to steamroll over people. Secondly would be Robert, who is king, and just didn’t want to take the responsibility to deal with finding out the truth, which I do blame him for, more harshly than if it were a mistake made by someone else, because again, he is the king.

I’m looking for text evidence that Ned favored Arya over Sansa and frankly, I don’t see any. I do see, like with Catelyn’s POV, a lot of idealization of Sansa as an innocent. Which supports the reading that Ned sees Arya as less naive and feels like he can be frank with her more. But also supports the reading that Sansa is favored as the perfect image of a lady, which is what my initial argument was. And in Ned’s thoughts about Sansa’s innocence and purity, there’s an interesting connection.

He could still hear Sansa pleading, as Lyanna had pleaded once. 

Ned usually associates Lyanna with Arya, but what he associates with Lyanna here is Sansa’s “pleading.” Sansa’s innocence. Sansa as an idealized, feminine victim in need of protection.

Which in fact gets to what I think is the most distilled description of Ned’s thoughts on Sansa, which is what he says about Lady.

He left the room with his eyes burning and his daughter’s wails echoing in his ears, and found the direwolf pup where they chained her. Ned sat beside her for a while. “Lady,” he said, tasting the name. He had never paid much attention to the names the children had picked, but looking at her now, he knew that Sansa had chosen well. She was the smallest of the litter, the prettiest, the most gentle and trusting. She looked at him with bright golden eyes, and he ruffled her thick grey fur.

He is describing Sansa’s direwolf, of course, but not only is the direwolf a reflection of their owner, but he’s REALLY describing Sansa here. This description IS Sansa. The lady, the prettiest, the most gentle and trusting. Which is why it’s so sad and why Lady’s death affects Ned so much. Why he has her buried at Winterfell and wants to protect Lady from Cersei even in her death.

I think Ned also tried to preserve Sansa’s innocence and gentleness and belief in stories once they got to King’s Landing out of a love for that in her.

He had promised to watch the final tilts with Sansa; Septa Mordane was ill today, and his daughter was determined not to miss the end of the jousting.

…

Ned Stark would have loved nothing so well as to see them both lose, but Sansa was watching it all moist-eyed and eager. 

Ned is sort of watching this with disdain, and thinks Sansa’s idealizing of it is kind of silly, but then the idealist in Ned comes out, too.

By then Gregor was striding down the lists toward Ser Loras Tyrell, his bloody sword clutched in his fist. “Stop him!” Ned shouted, but his words were lost in the roar. Everyone else was yelling as well, and Sansa was crying.

This isn’t just about protecting Sansa, it’s about Ned’s own values and what he thinks is right. So maybe Ned loves Sansa’s idealism not just because she’s a perfect lady, but because of his own sense of justice and belief in goodness.

By contrast, I think he admired certain things in Arya that Sansa didn’t have: Arya’s forthrightness and her lack of caring for what other people thought. Which is why you have that scene in Sansa’s POV of her thinking jealously of how Ned accepted wildflowers from Arya and didn’t even punish her for being unladylike. This is actually a really interesting scene because even though it highlights Arya’s lack of ladylike qualities, Arya is bringing her father flowers which IS a very feminine thing to do. And the reason this is something she did for Ned is because Ned has that complicated relationship with femininity because of his love for his own sister. And I’ve talked before about how Lyanna is idealized in the text, by Ned and others, both for being the perfect pure lady victim AND for being a romanticized, wild figure. This creates a really complicated dynamic between Ned, Arya and Sansa. I also think there is more to say about how Ned’s more subdued personality was shaped by his relationship to the stronger personalities of Lyanna and Brandon, and I think you could connect that to how he relates to Sansa and Arya, especially in the Trident scene where he expects Sansa to speak up and she doesn’t, but can’t himself speak for her or doesn’t know how to comfort her, and then has that long talk with Arya in private about what happened, I think because Arya’s anger and outspokenness was very Lyanna-like to him.

So no, I don’t think Ned favored Arya over Sansa, I think he loved different things about both his daughters. And I do think that what I originally said is true, not that Sansa was the favorite child of either of her parents (I don’t think either of them had a “favorite child”, tbh), but that the thing Sansa was favored for was her ability to be the perfect lady and dutiful daughter. Which also kind of sounds like I’m saying that her parents were shallow or that they objectified her or that their love for her was shallow. I don’t think innocence and kindness and softness, idealism and belief in goodness, are shallow traits. I think Sansa should be valued for those traits. I think they’re very good traits. But I also think there’s a gendered expectation for women to have those traits and I think both Ned and Catelyn participated in society’s favoring of ladylike and dutiful qualities in girls.

[carlossainzbutthole]

KingSlayer

Jaime Lannister x Reader

Warnings: None

A/n Hope you enjoy, Please send in some requests :) 

Word Count: 706

Jaime Lannister, the bad boy of Kings Landing, the one everyone eyes down as he walks through the streets, the...Kingslayer.

It was one of these days that you wished you had stayed inside otherwise you wouldn’t have ended up in the current situation you were, caught between two men who had grabbed you while you were walking past a brothel “Let me go!” you scream as one of the men held onto your arm increasing the amount of pressure as you tried to get away “Now why are you trying to get away pretty thing I haven’t even touched you yet” the other man spoke up trying to push you towards the wall so you couldn't escape “Gentlemen!” A voice almost shouted towards you direction “I'm pretty sure that young lady doesn’t want your company if you could ever so nicely hand her to me we can leave without a hassle” the voice now prominent “Why the fuck would we listen to you, you prick” one of the men say leaving you with the other but unable to see who was provoking them, before you knew it both men were fighting the man who was trying to save you, they kept pushing him down but he wouldn't give up, you closed your eyes not bearing to watch and when you thought it was the end of him you were ready to let the two men take you as their ‘prize’ but that never came “A-are you okay?” a soft voice stutters, you open your eyes in shock taking in the mans beauty even through the blood running down his face “I'm so sorry this happened to you! Look your bleeding come with me” you say running towards him and putting his arm over your shoulder.

“So tell me...What made you decide to help me?” you question the man as you dress his wound “What do you mean? I couldn’t just let them hurt you” he says with a genuine smile on his face “Any other person would have just let them but not you” you say without looking at the man “Well then I guess I'm not like any other person” he says and you laugh “Thank you” you say with a smile “would you like a place to rest? your welcome to take my mattress. Its not the most comfortable thing in this horrible city and I assure you it won't feel like anything from the castle, those bastards keep all the good stuff for themselves...” you say rambling on “they aren’t that bad” he says making you tilt your head “what did you just say?” you question “oh, um nothing...wait what was your name again?” He says avoiding my question “It’s Y/n...L/n” you say quietly “And what was yours?” you quickly add before he could say anything “Jaime” he responds “Does Jaime have a last name” you laugh “He does, but one you probably wont be a fan of...” he says and you turn to him “What is that supposed to mean” you ask “Lannister, Jaime Lannister” you gasp “Jaime Fucking Lannister, Son of Tywin Lannister, brother to Cersei...the King-” you cut yourself off “Im sorry...” you appologise “Its okay, its not normal for someone to not recognize me so it was kinda nice just to talk to you without the whole Kingslayer nonsense“ he admits and you stay quiet “May I stay here for the night, I don’t feel like being held agaisnt my will as I slowly fall to my impending death back at the Red Keep” He asks and you smile “Of course My Lord” you smile fades as you realize what is actually happening, a lord sitting in your house that is falling apart by the minute, this is no place for a lord so you start to freak out “Y/n, you don’t have to say, my lord, you didn’t before so why start now” he smirks “But that was before I knew you were a lord, my lord” you give a small smile “Please don’t...” he says grabbing your wrist causing you to turn and face him “Jaime...im no lady” you whisper but he doesn’t say anything he just pulls you closer “Tonight I can treat you like one”.