#so that 1. I can put more distance between me and Poll and really work on making it it's own character

[which-qsmp-egg-would]

Since when did I have 500 Followers. When did that happen. I don't even have a doodle for this lmao. This is awesome, you all are the best <333

[kwimii999]

Previous updates : #1 - #2 - #3 - #4

Previous polls : #1 - #2

First off, thank you for 700 followers ! I'm honestly flabbergasted and I'm very happy that I decided to become a sims 3 creator. Sharing content to you guys means a lot to me, and I'm happy to see people truly enjoy what I put out !

It's time for another update

Most of the progress for this update will be focused on the noses, eyes, lips compared to the update #4.

Note : I put the progress of the project in pourcentages on my pinned post, you can always come around and check it out !

Why haven't the heads gotten too much progress so far ?

This project is really overwhelming, if I were to focus on the headshapes flavors at the same time that I was doing the 3 other parts (Lips, Eyes, Noses), I'd be like dead or something. For that reason, I only focused on doing the basegame compatible headshapes for v.2, which is flavor 1 [Check update #4]. That's basically the base of every other flavor.

What will consist the bonus presets ?

Some EA presets that I don't think look bad and that I adjusted to fit the proportions of the replacements ! They will not be default but non-default, basically custom presets. The previews for those will be included on the download post itself.

Part 1 : Eyes FINAL V.2 (Including World Adventures Presets) Sims : Julius - Idoya

Release date : 10th June

EA's Presets

My Replacements - Changes : Changed certain eyes from their " surprised " look and " Are your eyes even open ? " look + Their sizes were slightly reduced + their shapes were changed + changed eyebrow shapes as much as I could (sometimes it looked odd on male sims, so I couldn't do too much) + changed the distance between the eyes for certain presets to add diversity mostly for the townies

Part 2 : Noses FINAL V.2 (Including World Adventures Presets) Sims : Owen - Mélissa

Release date : 11th June + bonus presets

EA's Presets

My Replacements - Changes : Adjusted the height of the nose + Added many nose shapes as much as I could not completly accurate but enough to be a base

General fact about presets : male noses are much more larger and female noses tend to be smaller, therefor, some of my replacements may appear larger on male sims but pretty average sized on female sims.

Part 3 : Lips FINAL V.2 (Including World Adventures Presets) Sims : Nikolai - Edna

Release date : 12th June + bonus presets

EA's Presets

My Replacements - Changes : removed the smile for certain lips presets + Opted for a more straighter look + changed the shapes [5 big, 5 medium, 5 thin + wa] the idea behind this division is for the townies generation

Last words

Sometimes when you look at something for too long, things start to look odd and that was the case with me and these presets.

I'd love to get feedback on all 3 parts for version 3 for what can be generally improved or if you think this is nice !

Overall I truly wanted to finish v.2 because I've been working on these for days non-stop and it's starting to become a chore which could prevent me from giving it my all :(

[popculturebuffet]

Amphibia Season 1 Reviews!: Anne Or Beast?/Best Fronds: Spriganne Begins (Patreon Stretch Goal)

Hello all you happy people! So if you’ll endulge me, it’s time for a bit of a story:  Back in 2020, I started covering animation on this blog with some simple reviews of Ducktales Season 3 that quickly snowballed into a career with three patrons, a regular schedule and a much more fufilled me. And since covering Ducktales regularly got me going and was a runaway success, I decided to cover another Disney show as it came out that i’d happily binged the previous year while watching my youngest nephew: Amphibia. So I covered ALL of season 2 as it came out (still need to put that in one post), and have worked my way through season 3. While regular coverage CAN be exausting I do love the conversations it leads to, how many of you found this blog through it and just getting to cover a whole show. 

But as a result of starting in the middle of the show, and having not started this blog when season one aired in one large mishapen pile, that leaves season 1 as a large gap. So I put it up as a patreon stretch goal figuring it wouldn’t take long for just ONE more person to join, as my goals are on a per person basis: everytime someone joins, a new project is added to the to do list and I get to it as soon as possible. Long story short.. took about a year. Still better late than never as i’m finally jumping into the first season of Amphibia. If you want the same treatment for the owl house, hop on over to my patreon, apt choice of words, and sign up. Just a buck a month (though more is appreicated) gets you a review  of a half hour tv episode of your choice (a little over is fine), a seat at the table when selecting things for my monthly polls, and hits my next stretch goal. Owl House season 1, just like this , once a month, come rain, shine or swamp snake. To sweeten the pot i’ll also review that spider-man two parter where a homeless doctor octopus was haunted by hammerhead’s atomic ghost. I’m not making any of that up. 

PATREON IS HERE

So now here we are, back at the starting line with the finish line looming in the distance. It is fun to go back, and not the first time I have either as I helped @jess-the-vampire​ binge the show months ago. But it’s a great time to go back: see what’s changed, reflect on how far everyone’s come etc. I won’t be doing JUST one episode a month, i’ll be doubling up after this, but you’ll still get the same amount of content, wit and shenanigans from me.

For now though we’re back at the start and it’s a weird sort of whiplash. By season 3 the show is gearing up for it’s end, with the arcs having a very crisp pace and a nice ballance between character based slice of life eps and plot advancement. 

Season 1 though? While it’s not bad by any means the larger arc is on the back burner: The Calamity Box is only adressed in three episodes, and the arc involving Toad Tower only factors into about 4 episodes. There’s a strong continuity, including a smaller arc about Hop Pop loosing the stand, as always, but it’s really more about the journey than the destination. Season 1 is more about Anne’s growth as a person and slow acceptance by the town as she adapts to this brave new world, than it is about the larger picture. And honestly whie it could be mildly frustrating when watching season 1 as it came out, even if season 1 again came out in one big ole pile, in hindsight.. it works. Anne’s growth as a person is VITAL to the show as it goes as is the town’s utter love and loyalty to her that’s carefully grown over the season. Seeing her go from selfish, reckless lazy teen to a mildly responsible town protector is wonderful to see and nicely contrasts how Sasha outright refuses to change for most of the series and Marcy SEEMINGLY has changed.. but at her core is still the same person. It also provides a lot of the thrust for Season 3 as seeing how much Amphibia changed her for the better helps her parents accept the whole experince faster. So while Season 1 dosent, for the most part, reach the highs of it’s followups, it’s got tons of charm, character, and worldbuilding to make up for it so let’s hop right to it under the cut!

Anne or Beast? Our series begins in Wartood as we quickly get a sense of things: populated by frogs, swampy townscape, rural area. All neat stuff that’s set up by visual alone.  We also meet our boy Wally who wonders home from Stumpy’s, a nice bit of establishing the place now for when it has an ep later in the season.. and finds a hideous creature in the darkness! Another nice touch I really like I didn’t notice the first two times I watched this one: the fact Anne is absent for the first act. By doing this we’re put in the frog’s perspective and thus eased into the world more gently than anne, getting a sense of the kind of place wartwood is, what amphibia is like and why they’d be so afraid of her

And the answers are just as cleverly laid out the next day: we see a bustling small close knit town that’s charming and clearly still at most fantasy rpg levels of technlogy, but happy and close knit. And we also see a guy casually taken away from his wife or girlfriend by a bug, highlighting this world is dangerous as hell, anything can and will kill you so of course they’d be suspcious of a human. To us we’re just another monster and the town reaction to Wally’s story is to form up a mob. It’s not RIGHT they treat Anne like this, but it’s understandable given how isolated they are and how everything ELSE that’s out in the unknown of the forests and swamps tries to muder them on a daily basis. 

We also meet the rest of the main cast.. and an adorable slug we never see again. 

Yeah for some reason despite Bessie being established as a long time part of the family and their only snail not long after this, we have this slug they changed their mind abouts. I call him jeremy

No not you Jeremy, my hellish source of entertainment. He gets shockingly good bandwith on streaming i’ll tell you. My best guess canon wise is Bessie was sick and one of the neighbors let them borrow their slug. I’m going with Chuck. He grows tulips. 

Anyways we get a good sense of the Plantars from the get go: Hop Pop is strict , protective and responsible, Sprig is a little scamp, and Polly is agressive especially for a baby. Hop Pop also dosen’t find Sprig responsible after a string of incidents that not only set up the worlds danger even more but SPrig’s impulsivness. The punchilne is also great “So yesterday was a bad day”. 

Sprig decides to prove he’s responsible by hunting the monster himself and bribes Polly with candy to keep her tiny mouth shut (”Bribe accepted!”). He goes out into the woods, finds himself caught in a snare and meets the most fearsome creature of all: A Teen-Ager!

And so we’re finally properly introduced to Anne, who just wants Sprig to leave her alone and wasn’t trying to eat Wally so much as get some help. She plans to just leave the child dangling in the woods, but an oncoming giant mantis gets her to change her mind kid and she saves him, leading to one of my faviorite lines of the ep. Seriously as always for the show the jokes are on point “Your a hero, an ugly ugly ugly hero!” this also shows Sprig ALWAYS lacked Tact, he’s just gotten worse with time. Then better: So far he hasn’t brought up any underlying emotoinal issues casually and made everything worse. So far. 

Anyways the two then Bond, with Anne explaning she’s trapped in a world she never made, she has no idea how to get home or where she is and she’s been living in this cave. So that’s pretty neat. Sprig offers to get her something to eat after she turns down bugs, which creates a nice runner: Anne absolutely refuses to eat them at first and is horrified when she does, but slowly grows to like them the longer she’s there. It’s really neat. 

The Angry Mob heads to get her, with hop Pop and polly tagging along and once they catch Anne she thinks Sprig set her up. But this misunderstanding gets cleared like most too: by an even bigger mantis showing up and trying ot eat her. Sprig saves her, a friendship is properly forged and the two fight the mantis off together using the ropes anne was bound with. 

Mayor Toadstool decides to get rid of Anne anyway because safety. Honestly it’s shit like this why all the frog mutants packed up and left for an island I tell ya. Damn shame that giant tortise ate it in this timeline. Damn shame. Anyways Sprig stands up for Anne and while that dosen’t move him because when has an honest heartflet plea ever moved the cold mechanical heart of a politican, Hop Pop taking responsiblity for her does. He also expresses pride in his grand son for doing the right thing.

Anne is greatful but understandbly plans to ease on down the road since you know, trapped in another world. But conviently for the plot Anne can’t leave the Valley for 2 months, as it’s blocked and has to just roll with it, though HOp Pop kindly offers her home and the basement and Sprig sweetly offers his plushies and kind words, forging a friendship that crosses dimensonal barriers and some emotional boundry lines. Once alone Anne tries simply opening the box in private.. but it dosen’t work. As we know now it needs a fresh charge. But she promises to find her friends and a way home. 

Anne Or Beast? is a stellar start to the series setting up the tone , the plot and the main cast beautifully. It’s truly great stuff and shows why the series got a fanbase so quick. WHile Disney has a lot of issues as a company.. a lot a lot.. like way more than they resonably should, they know how to make a first episode truly spectacular. 

Best Fronds:

So first up is some backstory: We see Anne stealing the music box and being peer pressured into it, but neatly we don’t get a sense of who Sasha and Marcy are just yet, instead just getting the short version so we see them open it and wind up here. Anne thinks it was all just a dream only to find out nope, she really is stuck with a bunch of frogs in a death world for two months. Sprig is jealous, Polly wants to kill her before she can eat them, and Hop Pop is worried she sprays acid. Which to be fair when encountering a creture I dont’ know tha’ts my go too. Anne confirms she’s not going to eat a creature that clearly dosen’t bathe (Hop Pop: Fair point) I’d also like to point out some early bumps in the voice acting from these eps: Brenda dosen’t quite pitch her voice up as much in the first ep to sound younger like she does later and Justin is still sorting out his delivery. Though the real noticable ones are Bill and Amanda: Hop Pop sounds MUCH older and croakier, heh, and Polly sounds more nasly. Both things wouldn’t LEAVE, old man and baby respectively, but they’d be more ballanced as the show went on, with hop pop sounding more like a person and polly sounding less like she’s showing the first signs of having been bit by a were urkel. 

Anne is bummed though missing her friends, so Sprig offers to be her friend and while most of the things she lists just have him go

With his face, the mention of a beach has him decide to take her to the lake. Hop Pop vetos this as he wants them safe and her to ease into the town.. despite the flaw in that that if the town dosen’t see her often they won’t get used to her. Anne simply opts to steal the key rather than try some of hop pop’s plot convience peppers like Sprig does. Thankfully turns out Hop Pop sleeps with both eyes open and as much as a regular old man: 86 years, often while yelling at a cloud or writing about hearing the word bra on tv. 

So our heroes go out, though Sprig notices a forboding sign of doom and wants to bounce. We then get our first taste that Anne’s friendships.. are not healthy, though this mostly sounds like Sasha. One weird quirk of season one is I ge tthe feelign they didn’t know QUITE what they were doing with marcy, so most of the bad elements in Anne’s relationship clearly come from Sasha in hindsight, but are directed at both. It’s weird. Anyways Sprig leaves but comes back , the two have a fun montage. But then a dripping wet giant snake rams itself into their day

Our heroes try not to get eaten by the snake, I try not to have to use the Goodnight Everybody gag twice, and Anne apologizes, realizing she was selfish. It’s a nice bit of character shwoing sh’es starting ot realize Sasha really is a terrible role model.. she just hasn’t realized Sasha herslef is terrible. Which agian comes off weird given Marcy ISN’T expotiative or anything, but whatever. Sprig nearly dies but uses the peppers to queel the girthy thing, our heroes head home and succesfully duck hop pop and confirm their bond and Polly is bummed she dosen’t get to put anne in a chokehold for trying to eat them. I mean she coudln’t with those arms but let her dream. Let. Her. Dream. 

But we get another Sprig of plot, sans the actual sprig as we meet grime being all intimdating as he found anne’s shoe and knows Sasha was lying about others, confriming to us that Anne wasn’t the only one stranded here. I also find this endlessly hilarous now he’s basically her dad and now I have images like this

Of who I rightfully assumed was going to be the big bad of the entire series. Time makes fools of us all.

Next Month: A two fer as we go striaght from a menacing teaser of what’s to come to sitcom hyjinks: Anne breaks a cane, we get your standard feud episode, Sprig gets sold into marriage and Anne and Hop Pop trip balls together like any good grandaughter and grandpa. See ya real soon. 

[natromanxoff]

Queen live at Hyde Park in London, UK - September 18, 1976 (Part-1)

An interesting bit about the Hyde Park gig (thanks to Jane Palm-Gold): "The white boiler suit Fred wore coming onstage was especially chosen by him so that he could be seen from miles away (because white stands out at a distance) and even better (and this is great but you have to know this place really - a London landmark for many years) it was acquired at Lawrence Corner at Euston (!), a tatty second hand clothes /hire place where a lot of clothes /outfits were hired from for band promo shoots - for instance they had a lot of military stuff there."

(x)

After the success of A Night At The Opera (and not to mention how the weekly Sounds readers' poll elected the band #1 in the best album, best single, and best band categories), Queen wanted to pay the British fans back for back their loyalty and support over the last few years. Whilst in Japan earlier in the year, they came up with the idea to stage a massive free concert. With the help of record industry entrepreneur Richard Branson (creator of Virgin Records/megastores) they started making plans for the Hyde Park show, which turned into a mini tour along with the Edinburgh and Cardiff shows. It is estimated that between 150-200 thousand people turned up at Hyde Park, which is still a record for the venue to this day. This show cemented their position in the top bracket of rock bands. The stage used was the same stage that was constructed for the Rolling Stones concert at the Knebworth Fair a few weeks earlier. 

Queen's first huge show at home brought certain areas of London to a grinding halt, and space on public transportation was at a premium. The concert took place on the anniversary of Jimi Hendrix's death. A banner hung from a tree that read "Hendrix Lives," and at one point in the show Brian May noticed it with much appreciation. The band are seen in the photos above arriving at the venue, where they were joined backstage by Pink Floyd's Roger Waters. Supercharge, Steve Hillage, Rufus, and Kiki Dee (along with a cardboard cut-out of Elton John, who couldn't make it to join her for Don't Go Breaking My Heart) played before Queen (Be-Bop Deluxe and John Miles were supposed to be on the bill as well, but were axed for some reason). A pro-shot video of Steve Hillage's performance exists as well as Queen's. There was a fight in the audience during Hillage's set, during which he played extended trippy versions of It's All Too Much by The Beatles and Hurdy Gurdy Man by Donovan. Also notable is Supercharge's singer Albie Donnelly parodying Freddie Mercury in a white leotard and a half mic stand. The first half of the A Day At The Races overture is aired publicly for the first time (the upcoming album had been partially recorded by this point). The usual Bohemian Rhapsody opening sequence then commences for the last time. The band make their entrance, and everybody near the stage stands up (the audience had been seated on the grass for the opening acts). This angers many fans who are further back (roughly 90% of the audience now cannot see the stage), so they start lobbing cans, bottles, or whatever else that can be thrown. After a few songs, Freddie asks everyone simply to calm down: "I have been requested by the constabulary for you not to throw little things around, tin cans or whatever. So make this a peaceful event, ok? Sit on your arses and listen." Brian, after his solo spot in Brighton Rock (he stutters a bit, revealing that he's still nervous): “From one piece of nonsense to another, I’ve said it before. This is something we wanted to do with the London Philharmonic but they didn’t show up, so we will do the ethnic version of a song called '39." He is seen in a dazzling new outfit tonight, which he'd wear every night through Japan 1979. It would become the outfit he'd change into during the opera section of Bohemian Rhapsody. "Clap along and stuff," he urges the audience, as he plays the intro of what he'd later describe as the first song about Einstein's general theory of relativity. After '39, Freddie audaciously performs the as-of-yet unreleased You Take My Breath Away alone on the piano, even hitting many of the falsetto notes that he'd excise in 1977 versions. He then gets cheeky and introduces The Prophet's Song as "a little shorter number from our album A Night At The Opera." Perhaps he still had You Take My Breath Away in his head, as he begins the a cappella section with what would become the first line of the A Day At The Races ballad instead of the usual "oh, people can you hear me?" bit. He also references Death On Two Legs, as he had done a few times earlier in the year. After Stone Cold Crazy, the band play Keep Yourself Alive and Liar, having dropped Doing All Right and Lazing On A Sunday Afternoon from the set. The combination of these three heavy numbers would prove to be very effective, and they would stick with it for their following North American tour. Liar is a great version, with many great Mercuryisms throughout. Before the last song, Brian coyly says, "This is In The Lap Of The Gods, or something like that." The band play a similar set to the ones they did in Edinburgh and Cardiff, except they drop Doing All Right, Lazing On A Sunday Afternoon and Tie Your Mother Down. They intended to perform their usual encore of Big Spender and Jailhouse Rock, but the show had run a half hour past its scheduled ending time (a curfew strictly enforced by the authorities). The police threatened to arrest the band if they went back on stage, and Freddie was later quoted saying how he would prefer not to be stuck in a jail cell in his leotard. And so, Bob Harris was left with the unenviable task of announcing to the crowd that the show was over. He later recalled how difficult and nerve-wracking it was to tell an audience of this size who had waited for about ten hours that there would be no encore. Now I'm Here was the first encore every night around this time, making this the one time between 1974 and 1986 where the song is not performed. The liner notes of Live Killers suggest that Now I'm Here was dropped from the set for a while, but that is patently untrue. People in one section of the audience chanted "Why are we waiting," all in good fun, knowing full well the show was over. The police soon turned off the main power feed to the park, forcing hundreds of thousands of people to make their way out in sheer darkness. Their reasoning was that it was the only way to "control" such a large number of people who had been rowdy throughout the day. In a 1977 interview with Capital Radio, Brian recalls the day: "It had a great sunny day for it, and everyone had a good time. There were still altercations on the day, and there was a big thing with the powers that be because they wouldn't let us go on and do the encore, about which we were very upset, having worked up for months and prepared for all that. They got very frightened because there were 150,000 people in Hyde Park in the dark, and they thought they were going to get out of hand. But in fact, there was no possible danger happening at all. Everyone was peaceful and having a good time."

This show is what epitomized their popularity in Britain, and when they felt they "had really made it," as Brian would later recall. On another occasion he said, "I think that Hyde Park was one of the most significant gigs in our career. There was a great affection because we'd kind of made it in a lot of countries by that time, but England was still, you know, we weren't really sure if we were really acceptable here. So it was a wonderful feeling to come back and see that crowd and get that response." Despite the fact that the audience had been there all day watching the various opening acts and waiting, the band delayed the show as long as possible just so it could get dark enough for their lighting and various other effects to make their full impact (as demanded by Freddie). Throughout the show, the band's nervousness and excitement for the occasion are evident. Most of the audience couldn't see a thing during Queen's set, since the stage was barely elevated. "The smell of the dry ice and the sound are the only sensory memories I have of this show," recalls Jane Palm-Gold. Here is an article from the day of the show, 

and a review from a week later (both were submitted by Boris Arkhangelsky).

Tonight would be the final performances of Flick Of The Wrist, Son And Daughter, and the (almost) full The Prophet's Song. A snippet of The March Of The Black Queen would be performed only once more in 1978, but a different part of the song.

Here is  a Virgin Records flyer.

The second pic is the famous overhead shot that appeared in the October 9, 1976 Melody Maker. Pic 5 was submitted by Janneman,  and pics 6 and 7 were submitted by Lukáš Bosík.

Fan Stories

“Well, I was 13 years old and had got into Queen through Night At The Opera and THAT video. I'd never been to a gig before and it took a lot of convincing of a sceptical mother to let me go to Hyde Park on my own. After answering the inevitable "no, I won't talk to strange men mum" questions I was allowed to go. The morning came and I was up at 6am, got my packed lunch together (can you imagine going off to a gig now with your sandwiches and orange juice!) and headed off to Hyde Park. I remember getting there so early that I was right by the crash barriers at the front and determined to try and hold my spot all day. As the day progeressed however I ended upmoving backwards slowly as people pushed in. I can remember savouring the whole build up, the support bands, everything. As dusk started to fall, the stage went dark and the dry ice started up. I broke my mums don't talk to strangers bit and a very nice bloke put me up on his shoulders so I could see them come on. I just remember the crash of light and sound as they came on as if it was yesterday (and not 27 years ago!). The rest of the gig was amazing and that was it, I was hooked on Queen and rock music. I saw Queen on every tour they ever did in England (and a few in Europe) after that but nothing compares to that first gig for me.” 

- Andy

Part-2

Part-3

[x1musings]

wicked games ☆ one

masterlist // <<previous | next>>

☆word count: 2.4k

☆a/n: i need help making a decision about this story, so could you please help me by completing this 1 question poll? i can’t tell you what it’s about, but you will be helping me a lot. thanks in advance :)) let me know what you think of this chapter.

“y/n, are you in position?”

you could barely hear seungwoo’s voice over the hustle and bustle of the café you were standing in. as you stared at the office workers and university students around you, you thanked your lucky stars that you weren’t like them. it was a regular monday morning and most of the patrons looked just about ready to die. you couldn’t help but listen to their constant complaints about everything from their never-ending workload and annoying bosses or lecturers to their less than stellar personal lives, all while chugging coffee like it was water. if zombies were real, you figured they would look quite similar to the people around you.

you continued to look around until you zeroed in on your target. as you take him in, it amazed you that you had missed him before. unlike the rest of the patrons, he looked incredibly put together, his black hair perfectly styled back without a single strand of hair out of place. he donned an expensive suit and an easy-going smile that confirmed your suspicions that he was the man in charge. you had chosen a middle-level manager as your target, knowing that he could get you where you needed to be, without raising too many red flags.

you touched your earpiece, subtly talking into it without drawing attention from the patrons around you. “yes. is hangyul in position?”

there was a beat of silence before hangyul answered. “yup, waiting for your cue.”

you pushed your glasses up in acknowledgement, shaking the camera imbedded in it in the process. you waited for the target to walk by, taking your time to gather your coffee and books as he walked closer to you. when he got to the position you needed him to be in, you pretended to be preoccupied with your phone and walked straight into him. your books dropped from your arms, as the coffee spilt over both of you, drawing the attention of the people around you.

“oh my god, i’m so sorry.” the apologies slipped through your lips over and over again as you grabbed some serviettes and wiped the coffee on his shirt. you looked at him with your practiced guilty puppy expression, watching as he fell for it like putty in your hand.

hook, line and sinker, you thought to yourself, resisting the urge to smirk.

he smiled, “let me get that for you.” he reached for the book you had dropped, as you gathered the documents he had dropped. you tucked a piece of hair behind your ear, giving hangyul the signal he was waiting for.

while the target was preoccupied with helping you, hangyul sneaked by and pulled the access card that was hooked on the pocket of his slacks. you kept talking to the man, smiling with practiced innocence and shyly giggling every so often, as you waited for hangyul’s confirmation that he was a safe distance away.  the man was openly flirting with you, clearly not bothered by the annoyed glances his associates were giving him. he had to be in his mid-30’s at least, and from the few minutes you had been interacting with him, you could tell that he believed he was a smooth talker. but the way he tried to get your name and contact details was sloppy and awkward at best. you barely had to do anything to keep his attention on you.

“ok, i’m good. you can get out now, y/n.”

you looked down at your watch, and gasped. “i’m so sorry. i have a lecture in 10 minutes, i have to go. i’m really sorry about the coffee.” you gave him puppy dog eyes for good measure, and he smiled at you as you brushed past him.

you ran out of the café, weaving between the patrons, and slowed to a walk once you got outside. after making sure you weren’t followed by anyone, you turned into the alleyway a couple of blocks past the café. there was a white van parked in the shadows of the building next to it, hiding from the view of the people walking past. no one could see it unless they knew it was there or if they were looking really carefully, but who nowadays paid attention to their surroundings? you walked up to the van and knocked on the door. tap, tap, tap-tap-tap, tap. it barely took as second for the door to slide open, revealing a smiling seungwoo behind it.

he didn’t bother to greet you, getting straight to business. “hangyul’s outside the CK Group’s building, waiting for the signal.”

you smiled as you got into the van and closed the door, taking a seat next to seungwoo. you swung your chair around, taking in the monitors in front of you. there was one monitor that seungwoo worked on, and there were five other monitors surrounding it, each showing footage from different camera angles. one of the monitors showcased the footage from the camera in your glasses, another from the camera in hangyul’s glasses, and the other three monitors from different cameras inside and outside the CK Group’s main building.

“ok, let’s go over the plan once more, so that we don’t have anyone deviating from it like last time.” you spoke into your earpiece, directing the last part towards hangyul.

even without seeing him, you knew he was rolling his eyes. “it’s not my fault that your brilliant plan didn’t account for extra security guards.”

“regardless, we’re going over it again. you enter the building and get through security as a delivery man. seungwoo will cut the cameras before you enter each area of the building, so there won’t be any photographic evidence that you were there. once you’re in the elevator, we’ll give M the signal that you’re on the way, and he’ll get you to the server room. you use the access card to get in and you will have ten minutes to find the right server and plug in the usb-”

“i should be the one doing it, not hangyul. he won’t be able to tell which one is the right one, even if there was a massive sign in front of him.”

“dohyon, not now,” you said at the same time that hangyul said, “don’t start this again, dohyon.”

here we go again. you shared a look with seungwoo, who laughs under his breath. dohyon, your team’s intern, was stuck back at the headquarters, due to hangyul’s overprotectiveness, and dohyon took every chance he had to complain about how unfair it was.

you could hear dohyon grumbling over the comms, but you pushed on. “as i was saying, once you plugged the usb in and seungwoo’s done with the extraction, you need to get out. use the back entrance to leave, and under no circumstance do you start a fight. copy?”

“it was one time,” hangyul complained under his breath.

“hangyul…” you warned.

“fine, i copy. i won’t start a fight even if i’m getting attacked to death.”

you smiled at his sulky tone. “good boy. is everyone clear on the plan? any questions?”

“what exactly am i doing?” dohyon asked, his tone just as sulky as hangyul’s. you shook your head at how similar the two were.

seungwoo spoke up for you. “dohyon, you have the most important job. you’re coordinating the mission from the headquarters. if anything goes wrong here, we’re going to need you to back us up. and you need to update us if there’s anything happening over there.”

dohyon sighed, clearly not liking being stuck in the office and away from the action. “fine.”

“any other questions?” you asked, preparing to help seungwoo and hangyul out in any way you could.

you heard a chorus of ‘no’ before giving the signal to go. you watched as hangyul entered the building, and once he got through security, you checked each of the other screens to make sure that the coast was clear. you weren’t used to being in the backseat, giving directions and watching as someone else steered the mission. but since you had revealed your face to the manager, you couldn’t risk running into him and blowing the mission just because you wanted to be in control. so, you were stuck in the backseat, hoping and praying that nothing went wrong, especially since there was no one to back hangyul up.

seungwoo glanced at your leg unconsciously shaking against the table, and placed a hand over it, making you realise what you were doing. he pulled the earpiece out of his ear and turned to you.

“he’s going to be ok. we trained him well.”

you pulled out your earpiece too, so that dohyon and hangyul couldn’t hear what you were going to say. “i know, i just don’t like that he’s out there alone.” you closed your eyes for a second, trying to push the anxiety out of your mind. “it’s times like this that i think we need another person in our team. if only hangyul wasn’t so overprotective, we could have sent dohyon with him.”

seungwoo raised his eyebrow at you. “you realise he’s only 17, right?”

“hey, the boss started training me when i was 16 and look how i turned out. QL Protective Services’ best agent.” you stuck your chin out at seungwoo and brushed the non-existent dirt off your shoulders, making him laugh at your antics.

“i see he didn’t teach you to be humble.”

“did i lie, though?”

seungwoo scoffed, shaking his head as he turned back to the monitors and put the earpiece back into his ear. you followed suit, checking each monitor to make sure nothing suspicious happened as hangyul entered the elevator. you sent a quick text to your informant, telling him that your teammate was on his way up. 

you watched as hangyul got off the elevator and walked around the corner to meet with your informant. you had never met m, since he only ever communicated with you over email. you knew close to nothing about him, but the fact that he volunteered to help take down a big, powerful corporation like the CK Group made you respect him. it took a lot of courage for anyone to go up against their own employer, especially with the risk of getting caught and outed as a whistle-blower. so, you took every precaution you could to make sure none of this could be traced back to him.

before long, hangyul opened the door to the staircase, and you got your first glimpse of the informant. he was younger than you expected - he had to be at least around your age - and you could feel the nervous energy flowing from him through the screen. he squirmed, running his hand through his brown hair over and over again until it was a complete mess.

“hangyul, you need to talk to him,” you said as you caught the tell-tale signs of an oncoming panic attack. “get him to calm down.”

“how do i do that?” hangyul whispered into his earpiece.

you turned to seungwoo, signalling for him to answer hangyul’s question. out of the three of you, seungwoo had the most experience calming down and talking sense into people, since he had to do it with both you and hangyul, more times than you could count.

“tell him that he can back out if he wants.” you shoot a ‘are you kidding me right now?’ look towards seungwoo, but he waved you off. “tell him that this will be the quickest way to get all the information we need, but if he can’t go through with it, i can access it remotely. it will take a lot more time, but at the end of the day it’s up to him.”

hangyul relayed the message to the man, word for word. your breath was caught in your throat as you waited for his response. the plan hinged on him getting hangyul to the server room, undetected. if you didn’t get the information now, there may not be another chance to access their server and database. sure, if he backed out, you could make a new plan, but you didn’t want to when you were so close to accomplishing your mission. 

M closed his eyes and took a deep breath. “i’ll do it,” he said, opening his eyes, which showed his new-found determination.

you let out the breath you were holding, and with it any doubts and anxiety on your mind. you were focused entirely on completing the mission. from the corner of the screen, you could see hangyul taking off his black jacket and looping a lanyard around his neck, over the crisp white button-up shirt he wore. he pushed the clothes and accessories he used as his deliveryman disguise into his backpack and nodded towards M, signalling for them to go.

they walked out and headed straight for the server room. you could see m trying to act natural, giving nods of greeting to the few people he passed. all of the 3 people that passed by the two of them stared at hangyul for a second too long, but you chalked that up to his striking appearance rather than them being suspicious about him.

seungwoo seemed to notice the same thing. “looks like hangyul just gained 3 more fans,” seungwoo said, smirking as he caught sight of the woman openly gawking at hangyul.

“we really need to get better disguises for him. preferably one that covers up his face.”

hangyul ignored the both of you as you two teased him. when you focused back on the screens, you noticed that he had arrived at the server room. M entered first, taking a few minutes to check if the coast was clear. when he’s sure that no one was in there, he ushered hangyul into the room, and stood guard outside. you focused on the screen that showed the footage of the hallway outside of the server room, while seungwoo directed hangyul to the right server. you were hopeless when it came to the tech stuff, almost always zoning out when seungwoo tried to teach you about it. so, you did what you did best, you kept an eye on each of the other security cameras, keeping track of the people that walked by the server room and the security office, to see if they were onto your team yet.

“ok the usb is in. give me a second.” seungwoo’s long fingers flew over the keyboard. “it’ll be done in about 5 minutes.”

“guys, sorry to interrupt, but the boss wants you back in the office now.”

you shared a look with seungwoo, the confusion on his face reflected on yours. “dohyon, what are you talking about? we just started getting the data. this isn’t the time for jokes.”

you heard a shuffle over the comms, before hearing your boss’ voice come through. “this isn’t a joke. come back now.”

[ch4nb4ng]

Lap Dance (Lee Minho)

Minho Stripper! Au

Words: 1628

People: Minho x (fem) reader

WARNING: kinda smutty? Like no sex or foreplay or anything, just a lot of touching and grinding.

A/N: Hello and welcome to my tumblr! My name is venus and this is my first pic I’ll be posting on here. I already have stuff lined up to post, however, I am also open to requests as well, I really encourage them! So yeah that’s all from me, I hope you enjoy! 

Let me know if I should do a part two for this!

It was a typical Saturday night. You waiting backstage, doing your makeup, waiting for your set. Even though your job was out of the ordinary, and some people in your life were not supportive of it, nothing could stop you when you were up on that stage. Twirling, spinning, grinding, you name it, on that pole. Being a stripper was your passion. Fuck what other people thought.

You were the last performer of the night. Of course, you had to do private sessions with old, sleazy men and women, however, you complained nevertheless.

“Y/n, you’re up,’ the manager called. You nodded, completing the last finishing touches on yourself, before looking in the mirror one more time, getting up, and proceeding to the curtain backstage, waiting to be called for your time to shine.

“ANDDD NOW, THE MOMENT YOU HAVE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR! SHE’S THE BRILLIANT, SEXY, GORGEOUS, MESMERISING WOMAN ON THE NIGHT! Y/N STRIPPER NAME!”

Loud roars, cheers and whistles came about in the room once your ‘name’ was called. You began, slow struts down the runway, a combination of $1, $5 and $10 bills being thrown at you. Ignoring them, you bent down, leaving your whole backside exposed to the right side of the room.

“OOO DAMN BABY, YOU HAVE TO SIT ON MY FACE LATER!” some crust man yelled out, however, like usual, your disregarded them. Little did they know, this was your strategy to scan the room, check who was here. On the very rare occasion, there was a couple of hot guys that walked in here and there, but you were so surprised to see probably one of the most beautiful men that had ever stepped foot into here. He was leaning against the bar, cooly sipping his alcoholic beverage, when you made eye contact. His eyes were so dark, they almost took you off guard for a second, forgetting your surroundings and your performance. He quickly whispered something to his friend, pouting to you as he spoke.

‘Let’s have some real fun,’ you thought to yourself. You smirked at him, before standing back up, body rolling and flipping your long hair. You proceeded to the pole, refusing to break eye contact with this mysterious, but extremely sexy man. You sent him a week, before doing a 360 spin on the pole, legs wide open and in the air. Usually, a lot of jaw would drop to floor, amazed by your capabilities, and they did, but it wasn’t the one jaw you wanted. Instead, the man nodded, lefties his glass up to you and had a drink, looking only slightly impressed by your skill.

Determined to wow this man over, you brought out your most top notch and advanced skills you could do. Flips, tumbles, even stepping away from the poll and moving and just dancing freely. Thrusting your pelvis hard, flipping your hair over and over again, doing set choreography. The money bills, cheers and overall support was consistent, everybody was really enjoying your performance, except for him. He just had that sly smirk on his face for the whole time. It was about to drive you insane.

Losing track of time trying to win this hard to impress man, the music stopped, and your age was over. You smiled, bowed down in appreciation, before sending one more wink his way. Strutting of the stage, nothing but frustration filled you when you sat down. Was it him? Was it you? was the performance sloppy? You simply could not put your finger on it.

“Damn Y/n, that was literally one of your best performances. I’ve never seen so much money thrown on the stage for a solo performer. Not in the mood to talk, you smiled, gave a quick thank you, and checked your phone, waiting for the manager to let you know if you were asked for any private sessions tonight.

“Y/n, surprisingly after that performance, you only have one man that wants a private session tonight, then you are free to go home. Be ready in 10 mins.” You nod at him as he walks back outside. A sigh fo frustration, you text your boyfriend, telling him that you will be home a bit later than usual. You give your a hair a quick brush, touch up your makeup and move to the private room, waiting for your usual sleaze bag appointment. You walk in, scan the room, your hopes slightly up with the chance of seeing the suave man from earlier. But your hopes are crushed when there is no sight of him. Your manager comes into the roo, tells you what area you will be working in, but you look over to see no one, therefore, leaving you to sit and wait.

“Hey sweet cheeks,” a low, raspy and husky voice fills your ears. You look up, eye slightly widening when you realised who it was. It was him. The mysterious, hard to impress, suave man. He was good looking from a distance, but holy shit was he even more attractive up closed personal. You felt a little uneasy, knowing that never had of your clients had such an effect on you. However, you had to keep your character, not wanting to show the man how much of an effect he really had on you.

“Well, well, well,” you got up, grabbing his tie all the way up to the base, almost choking him lightly, “what’s your name sweetheart?” you ask, swirling your tongue around the front of top teeth.

“The names Minho, Lee Minho, but that doesn’t mean much to you, does it?”

The hint of arrogance in his voice slightly annoyed you, but also intrigued your curiosity about him. Who was he really?

Acting like you did not like his attitude, you swayed his tie, forcing him to roughly sit down on the couch behind both of you.

“Oh we have cocky one do we?” You ask, jumping onto his lap, his legs in-between yours. You begin a light straddle, a little bit of pleasure running through you every time your core slightly brushed over his own. You could feel him shover a little at your touch, a smirk appearing on your face, knowing you had such an immediate effect on him.

“Cocky enough to know that you couldn’t keep your eyes off of me the whole stage.” He looks up at you, bringing his lip between his teeth, lazily placing his hands on your hips to guide you over him. Annoyed that he was onto you, you turn around, your back facing him. Frustrated, you grabbed his inner thighs, grinding at the same speed, but with more force moving down on him. Even though you couldn’t see his face, you knew he was enjoying it, especially from the sibling moans that were leaving his mouth every few seconds.

Arching your back, you kept your pace, snaking an arm around the back of his neck, leaning most of your body weight abasing him. You cock your head to the side, moving towards his ear.

“Did you enjoy it?”

A seductive whisper escapes your mouth. Minho chuckles deeply, a deep huskiness filling your ears.

“So it was for me then?”

He gives your hips a quick squeeze, then moves his hands down to the sides your rear.

“May I?”

There was usually a rule: dancers can touch guests, but guests don’t touch the dancers. However, you wanted nothing more than him to grab your ass, smack it, pull your hair, get his finger inside of you. You had no idea why, but there was something about Minho that drove you wild. You wanted, no, you needed him.

You nod,  making sure the manager doesn’t see. You feel his calloused, deeply textured hands up against your skin. The tips of his rough fingers move up and down you, almost cooling down from the rising heat and sexual tension between you two. Sure, every time you did this, there was sexual tension, its inevitable. However, you never felt it. They were usually not exciting or sexual for you at all. It was different this time though. The more he touched you, the more you wanted to give into those desires.

“OOO, damn, you really know how to move.” Minho whines, followed by a string of curse words. Feeling risky, you move your hand down towards his throbbing cock. You moved your hand around his clothed member, light circling your thumb around his tip.

“Wow, you’re so hard for me, baby,” you accidentally moan, “am I making you fell good?”

You turn around, putting your arms around his neck, leaning your head back, giving him as much possible access to your chest as possible.

“I’m impressed. Fuck, you feel so good against me.” A deep groan is released from his mouth.

Without asking this time, his hands move towards your breasts. He cupped them for a moment, before seeing your hardened nipples through your limited clothing. You roll your head back when he pinches one. Your sensitivity at an all time high.

“What’s your name?” He mutters out, barely being able to speak from the immense pleasure that was building up in him from your touch. Disappointment fills you when you realise that your time is up. You stopped moving against him. Instead leaving like usual, your sat there, moving one hands up under his shirt. Your mouth almost watered when you felt his well-well-defined stomach muscles.

“That’s for me to know, you to find out.” You whisper in his ear, pressing a small kiss to his lobe before getting up and walking back to the dressing room.

Lee Minho. Who was he? You had no idea, but you sure as hell wished that you would be seeing him again, and fast.

[vidkid20ssimblrlair]

Episode 15: The Dinner (Part 3)

"No. I'll go."

We looked over to see Aaron in the main archway looking slightly disheveled but composed. He sat down next to Lin. He stared at Nathan and then Mr. Jones. "I will like to apologize for my absence, Luther. I decided to come back out of respect for our guest."

"I was just about to ask about you. I'm glad you can join us," Jones said smiling.

"So it's storytime? Delightful," he said slurring slightly with his posh accent. "Well, I'm a doctor obviously. 

“More like a quack,” Lin snorted.

He frowned at her but continued. “As I was saying I worked at a hospital and was asked to aid in the crisis involving the dead. Patient after patient coming down with some horrible disease. It was horrifying, I offered to help out with the army to set up a sanctuary in an abandoned asylum. Where I met you all. But I know you’re curious about what happened earlier. About that letter."

“Aaron, you don't have to,” Maidson said quietly.

“It’s fine. I did have a wife and I had a child on the way actually. I can't say that didn't love her, but I was going through the motions and wasn’t being very honest with myself or her. When I heard she was with child, I planned to break off things with a colleague I was seeing. A colleague I was having an affair with. His name was Alexander or Alex. He was a kind soul. Thoughtful. Smart. I didn’t want to break his heart, but I owe my wife that much. She was having my child for christ sakes! But the day I ended things with him was the day the hospital became overrun with the dead. The last thing he gave to me was that letter and the last thing I said to him was I didn’t want to see him anymore. You can imagine how that makes me feel. How that letter is valuable to me.

Well, now you know something that even my mother didn’t know about me. Now you know part of the reason why I drink.”

“That’s actually really touching, Aaron,” Lin said genuinely stunned.

“I guess so,” he said shrugging. He pulled out a flask emptying the contents in his mouth and placed it back in his pocket. “Anyway, it appears I need a refill. So enough about me. How about the next person go, so I can carry on drinking.”

I looked from one to the other. Their eyes zeroed on me again. I knew my time was up. 

Audrey reached across the table and touched my hand. She smiled and whispered, “Tell the truth.”

I sighed, sat up, and cleared my throat.  “I wasn’t a good guy. What I might say may change your opinion of me and that’s fine, but know I’m not that man I use to be.”

They all shared concerning looks but paid close attention to me now.

“I was also a thief. I was also a convicted felon. I spent a lot of my life in prison for dumb shit. I stole from people’s houses, assaulted people, and booted cars for a living. I was addicted to the fast money and the thrill of it all. Got even worse when I became a father. Couldn’t exactly get an honest job to take care of her you know. Not when you got a record,” I said as the total silence in the room was deafening.

“Anyway, just before this shit went down I was wrongly convicted for a murder I didn’t do. I was able to break out of jail thanks to the dead taking over the prison. Lucky me huh? Crazy thing is I ended up traveling with the cop who framed me and an actual murderer. I wouldn’t even be here if it wasn’t for Audrey with the luck I’ve had, but I know what you’re thinking. I know I can’t get this stench off of me. Even in the fucking apocalypse, but I swear...”

“So you’re a convicted felon?!” Matthew gasped.

“Oh, here we go.”

“You..you...we can’t trust you!” he stammered angrily rising up to his feet immediately.

Madison stood up and blocked him shielding me from him. “Matthew. Please.”

“He’s a convicted murderer!”

“Wrongly convicted and he didn’t have to tell us that. He could have lied!”

Matthew fumed. “Wrongly accused. Ha! He could be lying now. He’s dangerous!”

“I’m not lying!”

I stood up and looked past Madison. It was then I felt Audrey behind me grabbing my arm. She tugged at it trying to pull me away, but the two of us weren’t letting up. Our eyes locked on each other ready to shed blood if need be. Only Madison was keeping us from throwing blows. She stood helplessly between us trying to keep us both away from each other. She looked strangely tiny as she stuck out her arms trying to distance us. I glanced over to see the rest of the table was now standing. Luther remained seated, but they all seemed to be talking all at once. Their cries all mixing together as they appeared to be pleading for us to stop as well.

The only person who seemed to be egging it on was Wade. He marched over to Matthew’s side and glared at me. A pure look of disgust graced his face.

He then shook his head and folded his arms. “I knew it. You’re probably one of the Cartel aren’t you?”

I scowled. “No, you racist shit!”

“Please stop this!” Audrey cried grasping my arm for dear life. “He’s not dangerous. He’s a good man! He saved my life. He literally went through a burning building to save me. I swear!”

“I believe her!” Madison cried. “Please.”

“So this is how you treat me? After I kept your fucking secret,” I spat turning back to Matthew. A smug smile then graced my face as I realized what I was saying. He seemed to catch on and he suddenly looked terrified. I continued. “So, Wade, since you want to open your big ass mouth, did anyone tell you that we didn’t get any gasoline? Not one drop? I’m sure Matthew told you. Ohhh, we weren't supposed to tell you till we scrounged some up, so you wouldn’t bitch about it!”

“What?” he gasped wide-eyed.

“And Madison, do you know what your little boyfriend here told me not to tell you?”

She turned her attention to me confused. “Huh?”

“He’s lying!”

“We found a walker on a stake that looked remarkably like you. Also found a message.”

“Wait! What?”

“The message said, “We’re watching you! Was written in blood on the wall of the gas station when went we back, but you’re not supposed to know that! No one is. Now, who’s the trustworthy one now?”

Madison backed away wide-eyed from Matthew then. She looked completely shocked. The color almost looked to be draining from her face.

“I..I was protecting you,” he stuttered. He stepped towards her softening his voice. “I was going to tell you...”

This didn’t calm her. Not one ounce. With a flash, her hand connected with his face and slapped him. He stumbled backwards and grabbed his cheek.

Wade who stood behind him pushed him as he bumped into him. He balled up his right fist and raised it as if to hit him, but put it down thinking twice. He then joined the rest of the household who stood quietly on the sidelines now staring at us like spectators. A mixture of shock and disappointment flashing upon their faces.

“I...I trusted you!” Madison howled. “How could you? This endangers me. It endangers us all. How could you keep this from me? From us?"

Matthew said nothing. The room was completely silent. You could almost hear a pin drop. Then I jumped feeling something on my leg. I looked down to see a cat. A white cat. Audrey had mentioned it, but I stared down at it perplexed by its presence. It meowed and walked over to the glass door. My eyes were drawn to it while everyone else seemed to be in a trance staring at Matthew as he stumbled over his words trying to explain himself.

I watched the cat paw at the glass. It eyes focused on something outside. Grace then spotted the cat too. She walked over to it pushing pass Matthew and she bent down to retrieve it. As she bent down to pick it up, something bumped into the door loudly. It was so loud we all jumped and I though the glass had broken. Audrey practically leaped into my arms from just the sound.

I looked up and away from the cat to see a corpse staring in now. He clawed at the glass door and loudly banged his head on it again making a thin crack. The cat sat down and continued to paw at the now blood-smeared glass. Everyone seemed to be fully aware of the cat and the corpse now. They gather at the door looking positively frightened.

DJ quickly came over looking dumbfounded as stared at it.

“I’ll take care of it,” he said regaining his composure. “But dinner’s over."

There's some foreshadowing going on at the end. ;)

And ugh wished I could have done more with Vince's flashbacks, but it was a last min decision to include it. Someone needs to make a ski mask for TS3. -_- Anyway, the first poll for the season will be posted next. Will be something to lighten things up as things are about to get rough.

Part 1

Part 2

All Episodes

[comicteaparty]

November 9th-November 15th, 2019 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble chat that occurred from November 9th, 2019 to November 15th, 2019.  The chat focused on the following question:

How do you deal with a lack of engagement from your audience, both emotionally and physically?

IzzyNinjaMaster

Oooo now that's a good question. If my online audience doesn't respond, I personally always show any new page updates to my family and friends and get feedback and comments from them. Really great for support. But sometimes their not available or I don't have anything new to show them. When this happens, I just look to myself for support. I know that doesn't really make sense or sounds kinda cheesy but it's what I do. I get myself pumped up and excited for what I can do next in the story and how awesome it will look all drawn out. And I go from there, I'll start drawing out ideas or writing out new chapters. So just be your own hype man, not just with your comics either but with everything. Great for self esteem.

Sorry went on kind of a rant right there

carcarchu

I prepare myself emotionally to not have any expectations. If you expect nothing and receive something you'll always be happy!

IzzyNinjaMaster

Lol true very true XD

Deo101

I'm not completely sure what this question means by physically, but I just kind of keep making art to move past it. Something that has helped me a TON is to make art that's just for me (like, that I don't post anywhere). I think that if everything is made to be shared, then we get a little too used to trying to find validation with engagement. With comics, specifically, I try to make none of my goals relate to engagement. I only have goals for myself and what i'm producing. If I'm hitting all of my goals, then I feel good about what I'm doing! No one engaging with it is just kind of like "okay!" Another smaller thing that helps me is getting my work done well before I upload it! for some reason just getting a bit of time distance between when something is done and when I post it I dont feel so bad if people don't engage.

Cronaj

I'm fairly lucky that I have a small following on one of the sites I post on, so while some weeks might be slow with feedback or engagement, I'm usually not completely devoid. I also have some very supportive family members who read my comic and often comment or text me after I update. As for what I do personally when I don't have a lot of engagement? I do a lot of self-reflecting, which is probably not the healthiest of practices. I question what I'm doing, trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong and how I could improve. I also try to understand other external factors at play, such as my readers' personal lives, jobs, school, holidays, that might have delayed them from engaging with my work. For example, I know that during November, as we get closer to Thanksgiving, there is going to be a huge drop in readership, because a lot of my younger readers will be preparing for school finals and visiting with family. By knowing this, it helps me cope a lot better. And if all else fails, I vent to my fiance or my little sister. It really does help to have someone to whine at for a bit

khkddn

If I were to get completely zero engagement on something I'd do what I'd always do, message people I know irl like "validate meeeeeeee"

In general I just take a step back from what I've posted and focus on something else. That way I remember webcomics isn't everything, and by the time I check up on things again there might be some sort of audience response.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I kept my work hidden for the first few years I was working on it (wanted to iron out any wrinkles before I was comfortable sharing) so in comparison, any engagement afterward - even a tiny amount - is pretty great! And even now, some updates get more traffic than others, for a lot of different reasons. Luck, timing, quality, etc. I always keep in mind that this project is - at its heart - for me and my own enjoyment/fulfillment. And if I’m pleased with where it’s going, that’s a win.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Oof, that question really hit me where it hurts. Over the years I’ve lowered my expectations, because while I used to have an active audience in the ‘00s, I’ve rarely gotten any engagement on my comics in the ‘10s. It’s definitely made me feel depressed and like a ‘failure’ to put heart and soul into my comics and art and get 0 reaction online. I honestly don’t have any way I ‘deal’ with it. I make something, hoping to get some comments > I get no comments > I get depressed about it and feel like my work is garbage. Rinse and repeat several hundred times. I keep going because I just love to create, but it’s like an actor trying to put on a performance and no one shows up to the play. It has gotten better lately and I’ve started getting some engagement for the first time in many years, but I honestly don’t have a good answer for how I handle that emotional reaction to reader silence.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Also good to keep in mind that lots of people may read without commenting, and still enjoy it! I did a poll wondering who would be interested in doing guest art, and way more people responded than I expected. It opened my eyes! Sometimes you just can’t tell until you outright ask for feedback

keii4ii

There's definitely a risk to that, though. You ask and still get nothing. Or worse, you ask and get negativity. Asking is a worthy gamble, but it takes courage! Sometimes when we don't have enough courage, we gotta find it elsewhere first, before we can try that gamble...

I lost that gamble one too many times and need more Courage Fund before I can try again, lol

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

True true! It was a gamble I had no real expectations/assumptions about, so I didn’t have much room for disappointment. Even getting one person who says “This is cool!” is enough to fuel me for days. But I know that’s not how it is for everyone. Once you’ve been disappointed once, it can take a while to get the urge to try again. I can’t imagine getting negativity, though... I think THAT would wreck me.

keii4ii

Sometimes I don't even ask and someone just randomly drops negativity off at my doorstep... I need to remember that I have also had wonderfully positive responses, that it wasn't all negative. But it can be hard to remember that on bad days.

Deo101

Yeah, negative comments always seem to be the loudest ones... They can drown out dozens of good ones if they hit you right.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I did develop a pretty thick skin for negativity in art school, which was really fortunate because my comics garnered a lot of negative attention at first. Though thinking back on it, I was making very androgynous and gender non-conforming characters (even though I never stated anywhere that they were queer) in a time when the public attitude towards such things was far less kind than it is today. At the time it was draining to get so many trolls, but unless I was already having emotional difficulties in other areas of my life, I was able to let it roll off.(edited)

keii4ii

The weirdest thing with my negativity is 99% of them come from actual readers who mean well. So I have a hard time dismissing them like 'oh they're just haters.' It's not necessarily harder than dealing with blatant trolls, but it is an entirely different beast.

Deo101

Sometimes I go and reread positive comments when I'm down about things

Yeah I'm not sure that I've had any trolls tbh... Its all readers saying what they think

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Avid readers who give backhanded compliments and ‘well-meaning’ but very subjective critique can definitely be detrimental.

keii4ii

In Korea, I dunno if they're still a thing, but 1-2 decades ago there was this type of theft called slash theft. It's a type of pickpocketing, done on the street while walking by. They bump into you, briefly and lightly, but you don't think much of it because Seoul is a crowded city and you brush against other people all the time. But during that brief bump, they manage to slash open your purse and take all the contents. It's an amazing ninja level skill for sure. I know people who had their stuff stolen that way. Back to the Courage Fund analogy, sometimes a negative comment isn't just a normal theft of your Fund. The comment slashes your purse open, and now your bag can't contain Fund even if you put more and more into it.

It can take a long time and lots of support to sew your purse back.

Deo101

Idk if other places to slash theft, im sure they do, but im pretty sure historically its been a big thing. The term "cutpurse" comes to mind

keii4ii

(:o I didn't know that was a term! The more you know)

Deo101

(some book i read (wasn't great but you know) used the term a lot and i was like "ok wtf is this")

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

That’s a very good analogy for it, and I definitely understand what you mean. I had to take a three year hiatus from one of my comics once after a IRL ‘friend’ ripped the comic apart and called me a terrible writer in less-than-kind words. I had already been going through some very bad things with my health and family and it hurt me far more than it should. It took some encouragement from some very dedicated readers to convince me to pick up the comic again.

Deo101

(so i associate it with pirates now)

That's really terrible lee... Om glad you picked it back uo though!!!

keii4ii

I can super relate to harsh comments hurting way more than they should, when you're already in a bad state. >_<

Deo101

And also it is a really good analogy keiiii

Yeah things just kinda get harder to deal with in general when you're more tired/upset in other areas

keii4ii

The most devastating feedback I've got would have done far less damage if I weren't in a fragile state at the time.

Deo101

Like you can't go be safe elsewhere if everything is a source of stress...

keii4ii

(For all we know those slashers in Korea could be pirates )

Deo101

:o

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Does Korea have pirates? If so, I’m moving to Korea.

(Sorry, we’ve probably gone way off topic for the discussion)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I got antsy when someone made a small critique of my lettering (rightfully so, though - lettering is hard and I’m still learning) so a proper heart-stabbing, bad-faith critique might sideline me for a while. Gotta be prepared for that someday

Deo101

Its weird, it really seems to be mostly about how I'm doing elsewhere in life now that im thinking about it. Also being further along in the comic helps cause I've got years of support and "just keep chuggin" under my belt

Like the other day someone critiqued me randomly and called my characters stupid and i was like "dam ok, your comment getting deleted then" but a year or so ago a comment like "I'm sorry im a little confused..." Made me second guess everything for weeks

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Ohhh Maybe the obviously mean/troll comments are easier to deal with, than feeling you let down a reader who was genuinely trying to understand the story. I would definitely react similarly.

Deo101

Iunno, the big old critique was a normal reader who has left other comments he jusy kinda randomly did it. But yeah I think it can be easier to shrug off things that are CLEARLY antagonistic versus someone being harmlessly confused

Because confusion can mean I'm not being clear enough and need to change things and whatever. Its vague in a way that hits your anxiety

keii4ii

Yeah, when someone is obviously being a jerk, you know it's on them

omg... reader confusion has been the bane of my existence

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I dunno, man, art school just toughened me up to most negative comments. If one person out of five is confused, I don’t take it personally and just explain it to them to clear up confusion. If everyone’s confused I think ‘Hmm, maybe I should retcon in some dialogue to make it more clear’. I guess art school really teaches you to distance yourself from your work and be very objective about it. BUT as I said, I’m not immune when other bad things are going on and it becomes the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Deo101

Though THEN you kinda get like "why am I being a target???" And its very frustrating, at the very least, and it does definitely still hurt... (Wrt trolls)

keii4ii

It's hard to tell who's confused and who isn't sometimes

Deo101

Yeah Lee im in art school right now, but for me its different when I make something to be critiqued versus a passion long term project

If I am asking for critique too, im braced for it in a way I'm mentally prepared for. Im not always braced to have someone be like "its pretty good buuut..."

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Ahh, I can understand that. I guess I’m able to view my passion projects the same way I did my school projects. It took time, that’s for sure. It’s a process of desensitisation, and was something I had to build up over years.

keii4ii

I'm disproportionately sensitive about reader misinterpretations/confusion. I'm 95% sure it's because one bad experience. Someone thought my main story was garbage, but they liked parts of it, so they told me to basically make a different story using those parts. After that, every time a reader didn't recognize the main story (I got a very prominent B plot, so it's kinda understandable that some people mistake it as the A), I got vivid flashbacks of that one bad experience. Every time someone said they liked [this character that The Other Person liked], I got flashbacks. Took me good 2-3 years to get over it.

Deo101

Its also a lil different when it's like.. i wont be changing these pages so unless it's a critique for moving forward its kinda pointless and i cant really apply it

Damn keiiii that's really rough

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, that sucks.

keii4ii

Yeah, it's hard to be motivated when the underlying message is "your first 100 pages are hot garbage, but you can still improve........ even if readers will give up long before they get to the decent 101st page!"

Deo101

RIGHT...

I don't want to have to preface "check out my comic!" Wirh "i promise it gets better..."

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

COUGH That’s exactly why I’m reduxing Eryl’s hot garbage beginning right now COUGH

Also because I’m a masochist and perfectionist.....

keii4ii

I think "it gets better" is fine when it's a reader reccing it. (I remember some of my friends reccing multi-season anime series to each other, going, "it gets better after season 1") But yeah, as the author we can't be the ones saying it.

Deo101

Mhm.

And I'm still hapoy with my old pages. I know I could do them better now but they're perfectly fine and they get the job done so... Idk its just hard when someone is like "wow two years ago you made a mistake, :/"

Like. Yeah, duh... I've spent like a thousand hours on pages theres gonna be some mistakes

keii4ii

It took me a long time to realize that Flaws =/= Problems

Deo101

I'm learning and getting better youre gonna have to bare with me here

Nutty (Court of Roses)

are you kidding i still get crit on stuff i made TEN years ago

Deo101

Mhm

keii4ii

omg

Deo101

Well its not a competition

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Same, Nutty

Nutty (Court of Roses)

True sorry ;;

Deo101

Ur name just changed colors keiiii

You: flaws =/= problems Your name: im ascending

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think...learning how to like not be bothered by negativity that much is a skill. Super freaked out one time when someone said they didn't know what's going on when reading HotV whoops

(turned out they just had to re-read a bit and it was just webcomics being webcomics)

Deo101

I had a group of readers say they were co fused and one person asked me to explain the last 2 chapters and i was like "holy shit am i being this unclear????"

Its stressful for sure

Nothjng wrong with being concerned with ut

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Keiiii has reached a new plane of existence. The blue is unrefutable proof

Deo101

Its something you're passionate about and you want to be as good as it can be

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Yeah...

Deo101

So any critique, regardless of validity will be something you WANT to consider

Which is fine and theres nothing wronf with taking things to heart like that

But also if youre Happy with it that's all that matters

You gotta be your #1 fan kinda thing

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I'm personally super uh...yeah I am having a hard time dismissing criticism

even if it's in bad faith, haha.

keii4ii

The #1 fan thing sometimes reminds me of that scene from Lilo & Stitch

The scene of Lilo's rag doll. It's been years since I watched it, so memory's a bit fuzzy, but I think all the kids were showing off their dolls, and Lilo wanted to show off hers too

but the other kids didn't like her homemade-looking doll, and it made her sad, almost not like her doll for a moment

but she picks up the doll again afterward

There are days where I relate to that. I never not-love my story and my characters, but sometimes I feel like everyone else has a low opinion of it, you know?

and I'm like lonely Lilo hugging her rag doll in the sad corner

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Yeah I totally get that and...loving what you do first and foremost is really important. I don't think in a medium like webcomics you would be able to keep going

keii4ii

I'll always love my Doll but I do wish this little corner weren't so lonely, kinda thing

Deo101

I feel that keiiii

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Hmm

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

When the ‘critique’ is detrimental it does become a problem. Like that ‘friend’ I was talking about earlier who bashed Eryl to bits. He told me to ‘read some Stephen King’ to learn how to write. I was making a high fantasy story, not a horror story. The writing of a horror author is simply not applicable to building a good fantasy adventure story. That’s when I knew he was full of shit. But the damage had been done, and I lost all motivation for the project for years.

keii4ii

uuugh, I'm so sorry that it happened to you D:

Deo101

Also this story is one that i have dropped and picked up SO many times, and its wildly changed over and over, and so i worry a lot im not making it in its final form, i suppose. I worry i started it too young, and so critique of the older parts hits that anxiety

Wow lee that's terrible...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Gosh...

Deo101

Also you can't really compare Novel writing to comics imo. The structure can be compared but...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think HotV is like a project I've worked on since...2008? And it changed with me and I feel pretty confident that it's in its final stage.

keii4ii

and not every story needs to be a Stephen King story

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

But yeah, you can really not compare writing for novels to writing for comics wth

nah

tbh it's weird (I like King personally) but his stories and also his writing do have flaws too so

what

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I actually do use novels as a source to study how to construct my comics. But! Studying the right genre is important. I’ve the feeling the only books that guy read were Stephen King, so that’s the only kind of story he was familiar with.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

God when I was still developing a picture I did got featured somewhere and someone criticised the way I did knees and linked to the picture of another artist going: Hey draw knees like that

Deo101

Every story will have flaws, its impossible to make one that is perfect. Well. Its impossible to make a story thats perfect for everyone. So alk you can do is try to make a story thats perfect for you!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Agreed, Deo

keii4ii

^ THAT REMINDS ME

Deo101

Omg

keii4ii

(going back to the original question) With no response, or negative response, one thing that helps me is hearing other people gush about their beloved unpopular stories!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Hmmm

Deo101

!!!!!! Me too!!!!!!!!!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I am having this problem and went to ask on twitter what ppl loved about their projects

and that's really uplifting somehow

Deo101

I LOVE reading other comics and just seeing how much passion is in them its like a light

keii4ii

I need to remember that just because someone, or even a lot of someones, thinks a story is trash, doesn't make it the universal truth

Deo101

^^^

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I WILL GUSH ALL DAY BOUT MY BELOVED UNPOPULAR STORIES and once you open that damn I am unstoppable. You will regret it, trust me.

keii4ii

And people gushing about their unpopular favorites is an excellent way of reminding myself

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hehe

Deo101

I have been very lucky and have had a few incredibly kind people who i can remember fondly when i worry my story isnt reaching people. I Know it has touched a few lives, and if it makes even ONE person happier (even if thay person is me) then im doing my job and its worth all the time and effort.

That was kind of off topic i swear it connected in mt mind

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Absolutely

I feel it's connected

Deo101

Phew

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

bc hmm it's a way to deal with times when there is not much engagement?

Deo101

Aha! There we go yes :)

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I do generally write very off-beat, unpredictable stories because I like reading / watching those kinds of things. A lot of my favourite movies bombed at the box office because they weren’t formulaic, which was what I loved about them.(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Remind yourself that there is people who enjoy what you do and who are happier bc of it C:

Deo101

Mhm ^^

Also i have my characters on a shirt so i can just wear that and be like "fuck yeah. I have a shirt. It cant be a bad comic if I've got merch babeyyyy"

Which admittedly is a very odd way of dealing with anxiety

But like.... You should get your Characters on a shirt.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

dfhwioufheuf Deo that's cool tho

I made so many like...background designs and posters for HotV and some of those I WANT ON A SHIRT

Oh I think what also helps me is to find a friend and just talk about the comic?

Deo101

The place i use lets you get up to 6 items a month as a sample order and it's severely discounted my shirt was like $15

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I should do that. I have designed some T-shirts but that wasn’t for personal stuff.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

omg

keii4ii

I'm actually in the (long) process of re-learning how to talk about my comic

Deo101

And yeah for sure having people i csn talk with/joke with about my comic helps soooo much

Like the fact that i know these 5 people will get my jokes like this

THAT helps a TON

These people actually are the reason I was confident enough to be able to start after having a bad friend drive me to almost drop the story for good

So having their support is probably one of the biggest things thst helps if no one else engages.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Okay, so on the original subject of ‘How to deal with no feedback’ I do talk about my stories a lot with my two best friends. They are my biggest fans and my sounding boards. They let me go on and on about plot threads in my comics and it’s one of the main reasons I keep going. Even when I get 0 reaction online, I still have two people who I know are reading the comic and think I should keep going.

Deo101

Or like, when my family is being homophobic about my work kinda thing. Friends are good for that...

Yessss lee having people you can talk with about it is SO good

keii4ii

ngl, I'm jelly of those of you who have go-to support friends who are genuinely into your story! That's something I hope to have some day, myself

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t know whether to give a sad react for homophobic family or a happy react for supportive friends

Deo101

Happy react ^^

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Still sorry about your homophobic family tho, but your friends sound awesome

Deo101

Yeah but :> I know I'm doing good work. Again those few people who i know my story has touched.. i know I'm doin good work.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

@keii4ii Just know I’ve been an acid fan of your comics for over 10 years and honestly think they’re some of the best comics I’ve ever read

AVID

NOT ACID(edited)

keii4ii

Hey acid is important too

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

GOD MY PHONE

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hiodcnioefwe acid

love this

I have one friend who has supported me since 2007 and I can always count on her freaking out about my comics Y_Y

so when I feel especially bad I turn to her

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

My phone is old and the keyboard lags and autocorrects like AAAAARGH(edited)

Deo101

Its okay same here lee

Typo club babeyyyy

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I have to edit almost every comment I make THANKS A LOT PHONE

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

shakes fist at ur phone to be more kind

I can't type on phone at all so...

keii4ii

Yeah, swipe-typing is high level sorcery to me

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

As someone who’s normally a grammar freak it causes me great pain that my texting is a syntactical disaster.

Deo101

I've been doing swipe a bit lately so it doesn't hurt my hands to text (I Tex too much)

keii4ii

This actually makes me wonder

What are some good, safe(ish) ways to reach out to people who may be 1000% willing to become that Support Pillar for your comic?

Deo101

I just straight up start doing it

keii4ii

For all I know they exist. But.. Schrödinger's pillar

Deo101

And gague the reaction

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

As an antisocial gremlin who hides under a rock, I have no idea.

Pakky

never hurts to ask

keii4ii

@Pakky You would be surprised

Deo101

Start sharing art, see if theyre curious, get deeper if they're good with it, kinda thinf

I've got friends who like to see my art but don't really care about my comic, and you kinda just gotta take it case by case

Pakky

mm fair enough, i always try to be supportive of content creators mostly because i would hope for the same in return. theres a lot of bluntness in my industry so if you do well you get praise but if you do poorly, you very well know it :/

keii4ii

Me: "Thank you for supporting my humble comic!" (this wasn't even asking, just thanking) Reader: "Well, your comic isn't that good." Me: "?????????"

Deo101

Wh

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I’ll be honest, on the rare occasion a reader starts trying to get really close to me, my dumb brain freaks out and I put some distance in because I have Issues for days.

Pakky

thats just rude on their part

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

what

holy fuck

keii4ii

I've Been Burned

omg, that question mark react is so appropriate

Deo101

I've chatted with some readers here or there but I don't know if id wanna use them as a support pillar

I kind of have trained myself to think readers as fickle.

If they get sick of my story, theyre allowed to leave

They dont owe me their time or energy and them being here is a gift

So I'll chat and stuff and answer questions but unless someone is my friend i will not lean on them for support.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Honestly it’s happened that I’ve gad readers try to get really close or be my sounding board, and I think they were just trying to be enthusiastic and supportive but my stupid broken brain always panics and goes WARNING STALKER ALERT WARNING ABORT ABORT.

Deo101

Hey better safe than sorry

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

juppp

Deo101

I'll chat but i wont give personal information and im not gonna like, get all into spoiling everything im planning lmao.

If someone asks me a question thats a spoiler ill answer it in private

But bringing raw ideas up for help... I need very specific people for thst.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

The thing is they weren’t even being creepy or trying to get really personal. They were just very friendly and I apparently can’t handle that. ><

Deo101

The friend group i get writing helo on are all writers, and they all understand my vision. They don't write stories like mine, i dont write stories like theirs, and we all fully understand our suggestions may go unfollowed.(edited)

Also whoever put the eye emoji yeah if u have a question straight up dm me and I'll answer.

keii4ii

It's okay, your comfort is important. If you want to be more open, you can work on that. But not everyone has the same comfort level and that's okay too

Deo101

Yes! Its all about what you're comfortable with

But I've personally got a small curated group of writers/artists who all circulate our work between eachother

Which i know is very rare.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Same, Deo...helped me a lot and I also know who to turn to when I'm down about engagement

Deo101

Mhm ^^

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(also they are all perceived better than me so I believe them if they say sth nice)

Deo101

Omg

That group of people have done SO much for me honestly. Im thinking about them. I love my friends.

Also dont worry its nit all about me they also talk about and we help their work too i wanna be sure thats clesr

keii4ii

I figured it was all mutual! but now that you've said it's not all about you I'm suddenly imagining The Cult of Deo

That is 10000000% wonderful though

Deo101

I walk in and I'm like "y'all check out this new millennium lore" and they all take their hoods off and start scouring it for plotholes

keii4ii

Whilst sitting in a circle (a magic circle to be exact)

Deo101

Of course of course

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Damn, that’s awesome! I only see my friends every few months so I dump a lot of plot on them all at once, and it’s harder for them to give really detailed critique. XD

Deo101

Oh, I do this all online

Irl I sit down with my sister and we talk for 4 hours and Lose our voices LMAO

Cronaj

Good convos literally ALWAYS happen while I'm at work

keii4ii

I'm still here

Cronaj

Good, because it made me sad when you said you didn't have a support pillar

And that readers are fickle (which can be true)

But I don't think you know how much I love your comic

keii4ii

I'm seriously honored! I still fear that maybe people are not seeing the story I'm trying to tell, and are following the comic for some other reasons (which is valid, just not what I'm trying to achieve). But hey, I'll never find out if I don't keep going, right?

kayotics

keiiii, i love your comic and i think it's beautiful in many ways, not just the art

but also, on the topic of lack of engagement... I'm pretty fortunate in that my spouse is always really supportive of my comic, so when I need a little pep talk I can always ask them

sssfrs

I’m trying to collect as much negative feedback as I can so that I’ll know my comics strengths and weaknesses and I’ll be prepared to take criticism as it comes in the future. It is pretty frustrating having no response or fanbase right now but I started my comic pretty recently and theres still time for growth

Glowbat (Aloe)

when you're collecting feedback be mindful that there's a difference between constructive criticism and people being unhelpful and simply telling you they don't like your work

the latter wont do anything but bruise your self confidence(edited)

keii4ii

Yeah, and sometimes even well-meaning critiques can miss the point too, like if it comes from someone who thinks your work should be X, when it is intended to be Y. Easy example: My previous comic was a depressing drama centering around a terminally ill young woman and her doctor, and once someone told me I "needed more fight scenes." It wasn't even an action comic! In that case, the lack of fight scenes was not a weakness. It simply meant the comic wasn't for that person.

DanitheCarutor

On the topic of lack of engagement. My answer is really boring, but I just keep working on my comic regardless of how much/little engagement it gets. I never intended or expected to have an audience to begin with since my comic has sooo many problematic elements in it, whenever I get feedback it's super nice! Always a surprise, like seeing the machine light up when winning $500 on the penny slots! (In a way, getting engagement is kinda like gambling. You post a page and you may or may not win some comments in return... Not equating real people to items to win, of course!) Admittedly, if there is a page I feel would cause reaction but I get nothing, it is a little sad. It's not the end of the world, though! I got a story to tell, and as long as I can still draw I'm content.

kayotics

i relate to that a lot, Dani. I also never intended to make the comic for anyone but me, so the fact that anyone reads it is really exciting to me.

Cronaj

@keii4ii (Potentially off-topic, but is there somewhere to read your other comic(s)? Or are they all in Korean?)

DanitheCarutor

@kayotics Every so often I look at my reader base and think "Man, there are people into this kind of stuff??" It's an almost surreal feeling.

kayotics

Yeah I get it! I wouldn’t say mines too out there but there’s so many other fantasy dnd inspired comics out there that they could read that I’m surprised they even glance at mine.

AntiBunny

How do I deal with it? Usually experience a series of emotions such as "how hard is it to leave one little comment you losers?" Then "Who am I kidding, no one is reading this, I'm creating into a void," and finally pry a few comments from people who know me personally, reassure myself that I create out of a compulsion to tell my stories even if no one's reading, and start the process all over for next week. Not exactly a healthy method I admit.

keii4ii

@kayotics There is only one Toivo out there

@Cronaj aaaa the previous one was in English. But I would not recommend it It's unfinished (though it does have more than 600 pages IIRC) and honestly really rough.

kayotics

@keii4ii true....... one weird wizard boy

Cronaj

Dang... I LOVE medical stories. I'm seriously addicted to them. @keii4ii

keii4ii

I enjoy them too and I appreciate your interest!

Cronaj

scours the internet for the lost records

keii4ii

The site layout is also broken so yeah...

I guess another thing I do is try to comment more on other people's comics, to rec them publicly, etc. Being the change I want. I don't do this as often as I want, but I think/hope even the little bit I do counts.

mathtans

Heh, I'm basically with Cap'n Lee in terms of a cycle. I think part of my issue is I won a fanfic competition in 2004, and it's kind of been downhill since. I've posted regularly to a serial site for over 4 years, accumulating 300 posts, and last month it had 100 total views... there's been 2 comments since March.

On the actual comic side though (not serial) I've relaunched it more than once, and tried to flag the more recent index as a starting point. And yeah, just hold on to the few good comments, like the guy who applauds me for continuing to post even though I only have 10 people following on Tapas.

These days, of course, I'm too darn BUSY to really think much about the lack of engagement. So one solution might be to get married and have a kid. Then you're just happy when you manage to get content out, never mind if anyone remarks on it.(edited)

Mharz

Popping here just to answer the question becos it's interesting. The lack of engagement was a bane in my existence and honestly one of the factors why I had to see a psychiatrist. My doctor told me I have self-esteem issues which leads me to seek validation from strangers. This is the first thing I work on. I have to be confident enough to not break even if nobody likes my stuffs. Which means I have to love myself first. (People prolly see me as vain at this point) Second thing I do is keep a mentality of "nobody has to care. They have things going on as well" which helps me appreciate the small percentage of people who actually took the time to engage, talk, and be friends with me. I also try to put a positive spin on it. "Nobody cares therefore I can make as much noise on my social media as I want and no one will bother criticizing becos nobody cares." If people unfollow, it's on them. It just means they're not really a fan of my work and I shouldn't waste my time. And if my mental illness is too much, then I will disconnect from the online world a bit. Treat myself. Do something fun like gaming and baking and hang out with friends IRL if possible.

Mharz

I sometimes think it's karma on my end becos I'm so vain, I rarely get interested in anything so I'm not really a fan of many stuffs so that is something I accepted as well.

AntiBunny

Perhaps being a webcomic author sort of goes hand in hand with needing validation.

MJ Massey

OH BOY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT A LACK OF ENGAGEMENT?!

over the past week, I got 24 users. Granted, I didn't update, so that's probably why

So this is a four month overview of my website traffic. I hit a high of 184 unique users in August, and after that it plummeted to just barely over 100. And I hadn't really done anything different

I have never really gained a lot of traction with my comics. I'll admit that Black Ball definitely has more appeal than my last comic, so I have slowly been building an audience with it, but it's still been very slow. Sometimes it feels like I have to adhere to some extra set of rules while others can just throw up their comic on Tapas and have instant success. Of course, that's not the case at all

the key is to remember "why am I doing this? isn't it because I love making comics?!"

and to keep on pushing, keep up that hustle, and enjoy the ride. Make great content and it will be rewarding in and of itself

carcarchu

I'm not really sure it's as simple as simply throwing something up on tapas and getting instant success. there's a lot of work that goes behind every comic even if you don't perceive it

MJ Massey

well yes of course, I'm just saying sometimes it SEEMS like that

I'm a marketing professional, so I know there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes

Glowbat (Aloe)

theres, i think, a lot of factors in certain comics gaining traction faster than others that are mostly out of a creator's control. on mirror sites like webtoons or tapas you have to factor that more attention is given to certain genres and art styles over other because of what that crowd likes. if they're into slice of life romances in anime-esque styles then someone who writes fantasy mysteries in a more western influenced style may not get as much love as they deserve

its tough out there

ive been fairly fortunate to gain a steady bit of followers on tapas but on webtoons my reader engagement and subs are significantly lower

Glowbat (Aloe)

i chalk it up to the type of crowd

MJ Massey

I've been analyzing my audience and my work and have a hypothesis that my work just works better in bulk format. I think 2020 will be a year of transitioning into bulk distro instead of the page at a time format

and see if that helps. As well as some new marketing techniques and getting back into the con circuit

Kabocha

A lack of engagement... This is definitely... a topic. I feel like, sure, one's general marketability in any given platform will definitely make it easier or harder to attract an audience, but on the other hand? It's also worth making sure you kinda figure out what you want out of webcomics. Some people have been working on their projects (or existing within a fandom) for years - decades, even at this point, which can be a big boost to initial readership on a new project! Other people just have the advantage of being able to sit down and advertise, or having someone do that for them. Personally, though. I went in not expecting to get an audience, and for a long time, actively avoided even having a comment section on my site. I just enjoy making comics and creating things - and if it happens to make someone happy, that's awesome. But comics and art aren't the only thing I do in my life that make me happy, and I've found engaging other people directly about things like comic craft and resources to be about 100x more fulfilling than posting comics themselves. (And it is fun, sometimes, to gush about my OCs and how dumb they can be.) But how do I cope with it? Eh, it's honestly not a big deal to me. It feels less stressful in some regards, because the dayjob can get hella hectic, and trying to balance "OH GOD COMICS" with "OH GOD THE SERVERS NEED PATCHED ALL NIGHT TONIGHT" can be.... interesting.

(But oh god, I will admit, having someone come up to me and say, "I read your thing or used your photoshop/csp brushes" can be incredibly motivating. But other days, I have to be my own motivation, so...)

kayotics

Sometimes it’s helpful to keep a list of really nice comments or to write down memories of when someone told you they like your work. This can take a while to gather but if someone says something nice about your work, keeping it somewhere safe for a day you’re feeling bad can help boost that morale

It also helps me sometimes to think about how there’s a TON of people who never comment on things, but they’re probably regularly reading.

MJ Massey

Totally! I was building a landing page for my email subscription, and I was able to go back and find old reviews from my last comic, and it really got me pumped

Kabocha

Yeah! When I worked in a call center, the metrics on calls in -> surveys was something like... At best, you get 10% of your callers leaving surveys. And it's usually because you left an impression (good or bad). Usually the reality was at best, you'd hear back from about 2% of your userbase unless you gave them an incentive them to say something.

Mharz

re tapas and other platforms: I have to agree that certain genres really are more appealing there. I have two comics with different genres that I regularly update and the numbers are literally like night and day. It's a sad truth.

Mharz

I also love getting notifs on tapas when a person is binging my comics and liking every update. It means I got them hooked. :'3(edited)

nice reminder that there ARE people who like my comics.

Kabocha

Well yeah - even in traditional publishing, some genres generally get larger readerships than others (and higher advances) because they're more easily marketed. There's a reason why some publishers will categorize what's basically a fantasy story with romance subplots as a "romance" overall for a relatively unknown author (it's because they're more likely to attract more readers because romance is HUGE)

MJ Massey

true that

and you have to find where you audience lives as well

Kabocha

Yeah... I have some readers who only engage when they come back to catch up, which can be every 6weeks or more. Some only read when a chapter is done being posted, which is about every six months.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Re: Tapas. Yeah, Tapas especially has very particular styles and genres it likes (anime style + romance, especially BL). I posted Children of Shadow there for six months and had 20 total subs before taking it down. A while later I tried posting it on Webtoons and got 60 subs in one week. That level of engagement slowed down considerably almost immediately though, because the prologue episode is in colour and the main series is greyscale - and I discovered the hard way that the majority of Webtoons’ users do not like greyscale (I even got rating-bombed over it). My second comic is doing much better on Webtoons since it’s in digital colour rather than pencil like Children of Shadow. Each platform has its specific interests and it can be a struggle to get noticed if you’re not making something that falls into its normal styles and genres.

Glowbat (Aloe)

both tapas and webtoons really dont push their scifi comics hardly at all. Tapas' top scifi section is littered with discontinued stories (at least theyve abandoned tapas at any rate idk if theyre for sure no longer continued) which means that because i update weekly and sorta fall into a semi-anime inspired style i get some decent traffic from the small demographic who go hunting for a scifi comic

RebelVampire

That's not that surprising, tbh. Even in the realm of novels sci-fi is more of a hunt for where the audience is sometimes.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Scifi is an under-appreciated genre, imo. Unless you’re Star Wars, Star Trek or a Marvel comic, it seems like people don’t talk much about scifi.

It might help boost views if you rework your genre labels on places like Webtoons. Like, have Adventure or Drama as your main genre tag and Scifi as your secondary genre.

Glowbat (Aloe)

actually ever since avas demon went on webtoons ive been getting about 10-15 subs a week there

for a while i had listed aloe as drama first but the results werent fantastic as i think that genre has been flooded over there

keii4ii

I think sci-fi has some very prominent associations with the genre that don't apply to every sci-fi story -- e.g. the first thing a lot of people immediately think of is spaceship explody battles. So if someone sees sci-fi and they're not into spaceship explody battles, they won't read.

Glowbat (Aloe)

i may try adventure though if scifi doesnt pan out

keii4ii

Alternatively, if someone sees sci-fi and they ARE into that... and only that... they will leave once they find out the comic is not about that

Glowbat (Aloe)

thats also a good point

keii4ii

I've had similar difficulties even though fantasy is more widely accepted these days as a more varied mega-genre

People expect X, comic contains only a sprinkling of X and is about Y instead.

Glowbat (Aloe)

in my personal case, i've alienated potential readers i feel sometimes simply by having the cast be primarily lgtbq with an agender lead. but i dont regret that and im happy to have it deter people who arent down for that

RebelVampire

That is definitely true about sci-fi. Film has really biased people as to what fits sci-fi, where in reality sci-fi is a really wide genre. So a lot of stuff never gets a chance cause it confuses people.

Nutty (Court of Roses)

Yooooo i feel that, glowbat. On one hand, I want ppl to know that my comic is a safe read for LGBT, but at the same time I know that announcing it as such will deter others on principle.

The Q - working on WAYFINDERS

I feel the same way. The whole cast of Wayfinders is some form of lgbt+, but we don't actually adress it much, because it's an adventure story moreso than a romance. So it's like.... how do we tell the readers it ain't straight

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Fantasy does seem to get drowned by numbers. Eryl gets about 5 new subs per update and Children of Shadow only gets 1-2, and I think they’re just getting lost in the crowd.

Nutty (Court of Roses)

Two of my characters jokingly told each other their identity through bard puns, plus I keep pushing for gay ships within the story, so I'm pretty overt with my readers about it ahaha.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

@The Q - working on WAYFINDERS I’m having some difficulty with that dilemma, too. Both my comics feature large LGBTQ+ casts but romance isn’t the focus of either. It often feels like there’s no good way to bring it up naturally until the romance threads surface very far into the story, and I’m always worried about homophobes lashing out when they eventually discover the comic is G A Y

Glowbat (Aloe)

in my descriptions i describe the comic as a lgbtq+ themed scifi flat out

keii4ii

Early in HoK, one character embarks on a journey for a personal reason, and the MC tags along. I've semi-recently heard from an American friend that she didn't really get the character's reason. He wanted to take a younger family member away from a bad living situation, but to the friend, the situation didn't seem so bad. After some talking, we realized it was a cultural thing. The situation was very obviously bad to Koreans, but it didn't/doesn't seem like a far departure from the range of normal life in the US, for cultural/societal reasons. I suspect that was a big part of the reason why people kept pegging my comic as a "fun adventure romp" despite the lack of fun adventures (it has elements of adventure, but is not that as a whole). The reason for the journey seemed superficial, like the author (me) just needed an excuse to start the Fun Adventure-Filled Journey. Whereas Korean readers, back when I was publishing it in Korean, immediately understood it was an intensely personal, difficult task that the shy boy decided to accept for the sake of love.

And yeah, LGBTQ+ as a tag/ part of the description seems like a good option to me too!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

But then I’m also anxious that LGBT folks will think that’s false advertising because the characters’ labels aren’t mentioned until really far into the story (and it’s no where near that point yet). Aaaagh maybe I just overthink everything.

Glowbat (Aloe)

its really interesting to hear the difference in reception HoK gets

keii4ii

Yeah and the setting itself apparently feels different, too! To Koreans, it evokes secondhand nostalgia. But some non-Koreans have told me it feels fantastical and Ripe For Adventures

Glowbat (Aloe)

I feel you Lee- almost none of my chars have mentioned or done anything to illustrate their identities yet

keii4ii

(I also feel the need to mention, there have been non-Korean readers who got what HoK was about. Those readers mean so much to me! But I don't know if they understood that particular detail about Danbi's motivation for the journey early on.)

The Q - working on WAYFINDERS

(I'm gonna put so much lbgt+ love in the background of the story everytime they get to a new city ahahahaha >:) )

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

To me, @keii4ii HoK is very reminiscent of Studio Ghibli films because I get similar whimsical vibes. But Studio Ghibli has always been more about emotional journeys so after a couple chapters I was like ‘Ah, yes, I think this comic is about the characters’ emotional growth’(edited)

Holmeaa - working on WAYFINDERS

(muhahhaa, also just let Sallly flirt with all the ladies in the BG)

Glowbat (Aloe)

yesss flirt with ladies

MJ Massey

I'm worried that my comic is not "gay enough" to warrant the LGBT+ label. The character's sexualities have very little to do with the actual story, and one character is actively hiding their identity

The Q - working on WAYFINDERS

SAME

keii4ii

I'm aro/ace/agender and I don't really feel "LGBTQ+ enough" so I can't really use the LGBTQ+ label for my own comic, even though I know the label isn't exclusively for ownvoices stories.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I admit I’m not sure I ‘got’ Danbi’s motivations on a cultural level, but I felt like the tone being presented in that scene made it pretty clear she was in a bad situation?(edited)

Holmeaa - working on WAYFINDERS

but... we have calculated a total of 1 straight character in our whole comic.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

‘She’ as in the niece, not Danbi. XD(edited)

MJ Massey

that's what it seemed like to me too, or at least that by leaving their village they were going to a better situation

Glowbat (Aloe)

first of all- high fives keii because agender solidarity and second of all if you have chars who identify as either not straight or not cis or both rolled into one then its gay enough to have the lgbtq label

to heck with gate keepers

there are plenty of queer peeps who just want to read stories that casually include people like themselves

but if you dont feel its needed you dont have to either

MJ Massey

I guess there is a certain expectation when you say "I make an LGBTQ+ comic" of how that comic will be, and I don't want to disappoint people or set them up to expect something different

I just figure that all kinds of people exist in the world, so I should include as many different kinds of people as I can in my work

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I probs should just put LGBTQ+ labels in the descriptions and be like ‘this is genre fiction but almost everyone’s queer even though you can’t tell yet’. XD

Nutty (Court of Roses)

I use the term "LGBT-friendly" to indicate that they're present, but might not be the full focus

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I write genre stories because I’m not that into romance-centric stories myself. I want queer heroes in the kinds of stories I like to read without the entire focus being on their sordid love-lives. I just want to read about the hero who slayed a dragon to rescue his prince instead of his princess, lol.

Glowbat (Aloe)

lol im in a similar position where i'd rather see the hero befriend the dragon

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I have plenty of that in my comics, too!

There’s some nice dragons and some very-not-nice ones. XD

Glowbat (Aloe)

(im insufferable in d&d i was a bard who tried to be friends with everything)

eryl is on my lisssst <3

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

This is why I love bards

Glowbat (Aloe)

hehe

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I'm always happy when people mark their stuff as LGBTQ+ if characters are present tbh Y_Y

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Also agreed with everything said above

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

All right, now Imma definitely have to add the LGBTQ+ labels to my comics next time I do website maintenance.

Glowbat (Aloe)

yay!

Nutty (Court of Roses)

Aw ye aw ye

Join the brigade

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yiss

I feel a bit bad bc I rarely read sth that's not clearly marked as LGBTQ+ or where I know the authors are part of the community whoops

But it's mostly the fact that I consumed hetero-focused media my whole life and now I can...choose.....

the dream

Glowbat (Aloe)

heck yes

im way more drawn to stories that are marked lgbtq+

keii4ii

Don't feel bad, because seriously, even if you exclusively read LGBTQ+ marked stories? There ain't enough time in this life to read every good story that fits that bill.

There are too many good stories out there and we do need to choose.

Glowbat (Aloe)

its just nicer because then i can enjoy the story without having to worry that in the middle of it im going to get a rude wake up call from an off colour joke or somethin at my expense

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah that's true

keii4ii

Sometimes we miss out on stuff that we may have fallen in love with, but that's the name of the game, the game of not having enough time

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Webcomics feel a lot safer than other media in that regard atm

Jupp especially if you're also working on your own stories

Glowbat (Aloe)

it sucks thinking theres a bunch of stories out there that im sure id love if only i had the time or mental fortitude to sift through a bunch of others.

keii4ii

(OTL that reminds me... there is one instance of trope use in an early chapter of HoK that falls into that 'off color joke' category. I don't have any excuses for it, just 'I just thoughtlessly parroted a trope that I saw elsewhere.' I regret it and hope to figure out an elegant way to rewrite that one scene.)

Glowbat (Aloe)

i dont have the energy to be burned so often by stories that seem good and then hit me with random transphobic bs or using slurs as jokes

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, as someone who grew up in a time when no one positively portrayed queer folks in mainstream stories (and there was no internet and living out in the boonies made it impossible to discover underground cultures) I love that now I can seek out tonnes of LGBTQ stories and drown myself in the gay every day.

Glowbat (Aloe)

yesss

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

jupp ;;

Glowbat (Aloe)

man if i could give ten year old me printed copy of paranatural and turn to the pages with rj's identity being explained? that kid would have grown up way happier

living in small towns aint great for queer peeps

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Nope it’s not. I was badly repressed until honestly only 3 years ago when I suddenly asked myself why I loved reading about and writing so many gay characters. And then suddenly my whole life made sense.

Glowbat (Aloe)

im so happy for you<3

Glowbat (Aloe)

its a heck of a thing thinking back on things and realizing why you do certain things

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Honestly there were giant clues from when I was still a little kid and I can’t believe it took me so long. XD But I’m digressing from the comic talk, lol.

Glowbat (Aloe)

haha i understand what you mean

i think its why its so important for comics to be inclusive

spare some poor kids the heart ache and confusion

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yes! The internet has created such a boom for indie comics and that huge variety of voices has been so so important.

Glowbat (Aloe)

as much as comics are an art, they're extremely powerful as a vehicle for teaching and generally conveying ideas

FeatherNotes

Can i just say how happy i am that y'all are making LGBTQ+ comics that aren't just romance tho? I'm pretty indifferent and on the ace spectrum for sure, so its so refreshing that we can have a queer cast just being cool and not hurt by identities. I wish i had that as a kid

Also no shade on romance but there's def a lot and lgbtq+ isn't just for that genre

So yes yall are 'gay enough' lol

Glowbat (Aloe)

i agree! queer peeps shouldn't be squared off in romance, which unfortunately i think is a result of people's gross misconceptions

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Admittedly, I use my comics as a vehicle to work through my own issues, so there are scenes planned where the characters have to deal with transphobia or homophobia. But I will always counterbalance that with other scenes that validate the characters’ identities.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Hmhm my story also deals with transphobia and dysphoria bc I'm working through own issues. I don't think that's a bad thing though

generally I think it's pretty ok if the story is not a constant misery train

(even those can be written well, but they are usually not my cup of tea)

Glowbat (Aloe)

i think its perfectly acceptable to use comics as a vehicle for that lee

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeahh tbh

MJ Massey

there's no wrong reason to make comics/create a thing

Glowbat (Aloe)

youre a queer creator and you're working with what you know so why not

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I know focusing on queer suffering has been criticised a lot but I feel there's more nuance to it. Especially if it's a LGBTQ+ person writing about it

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah. I’m a miserable emo and I write miserable emo stories, but I try to inject some hope into it, because I think that the majority of humans are good and/or want to be good.

Glowbat (Aloe)

theres this comic called dropout that does a wonderful job exploring the grittier truths of being queer

its a fairly short read but its super good

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Hmmm, I may look that up

Glowbat (Aloe)

i can dm you the link! no pressure to read it tho

twothirty

gosh, i just want to chime in because i really relate to earlier comments around labelling comics. I'm bi, but i don't wear it on my sleeve, and my own comic has like...1 straight character. I feel like there is an expectation for comics labelled as lgbtq+ and i don't want to disappoint people who are really looking for that content to be directly addressed.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Tbh I feel many people are just happy, if there's queer characters doing cool stuff (at least that's how it's for me).

Glowbat (Aloe)

i label my own comic as lgbtq+ and the plot hardly hinges on that being the central theme

just a bunch a gay scientists and robots in space

...i swear its way more interesting that that lol

man i wish i could get more of my comic out faster so i didnt have to worry about spoiling basic things geeze

twothirty

haha im into it! Ahh, well probably a big part of it is my own insecurities, but what are webcomics for if not... for figuring out your own crap (edited)

keii4ii

I feel that X'D

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

juppp...I get the anxiety tho

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Mess of anxiety solidarity.

Glowbat (Aloe)

oof yeah

also hey while we're at it with the queer biz in here:

aro/ace/bi peeps are all gay enough full stop

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

YES

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

jupp

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

As a demi-bi dude I fully endorse that all labels are valid.

And that gatekeeping sucks and helps no one

Glowbat (Aloe)

yeah anyone who makes you feel like you dont belong under the lgbtq+ umbrella isnt doin right by you

and your comics should be allowed to be considered as queer as you want them to be

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Also all gender identities are valid and don’t hinge on having a physical transition. You’re valid as trans whether you change your body or not.

Glowbat (Aloe)

^^^

YES

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

YESS

Glowbat (Aloe)

all our experiences are valid and the comics we make because of those experience are beautiful

Deo101

Oh man I missed a huge convo, but I love y'all and it's wonderful seeing so many kinds of comics out there and seeing people make their own content

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Yo, nothing "gross" about romance, and the reason people flock to it is because romance with same-gender couples and/or trans people has been treated as "deviant disorder that needs to be cured and cleaned up, or at least kept far away from polite society" for so long (and still is, in many places)

All queer stories are valid, queer characters don't need to be in a romantic storyline to count, but please let's discuss that without echoing homophobic rhetoric about queer romance being "gross", yeah?(edited)

MJ Massey

I don't think it was meant gross as in queer romance itself being gross, but more in the finding a general distaste for romance tropes and romance as a genre

but I agree, that we should be careful about implying those sorts of things with our work

keii4ii

Romance as a genre is valid too; the consensus was just that there's a lot of it, and other genres are valid too. That every genre is valid

MJ Massey

true, but people might just feel strong distaste for certain genres from a personal point of preference

it's part of what makes the fabric of human existence so fascinating, we all have different opinions, likes, dislikes, viewpoints...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

tbh I love romance stories but the thing that disheartens me is that the queer stories people take most serious are romances

keii4ii

The pigeonholing

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Can you elaborate on that Keiiii?

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Those are the stories that get repressed and erased the most, is the thing, so it takes more effort to get them produced and shared, and that makes people extra-happy

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t think anyone said romance stories were gross?

Just that it’s not necessarily our jam.

keii4ii

Oh, I meant that's what people are doing when people start exclusively associating a very diverse experience/ group of people with ONE thing, to a point where the people in that group are not allowed to be anything other than That One Thing

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I was reacting to "queer peeps shouldn't be squared off in romance, which unfortunately i think is a result of people's gross misconceptions"

keii4ii

and it's a really unfair, inaccurate restriction

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Ahhhh

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

OH okay, thank you for elaborating, Keiiii. I couldn't really associate anything with the term at first!

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Misconceptions are the reason queer people have been excluded from most romance for so long

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think in that case it was more about people's misconception of queer identities being inherintly sexual and/or romantic though?

and not about queer romance being gross

DanitheCarutor

Huh, I thought 'gross' in that context was more akin to 'outlandish' or 'exaggerated', but I could be misunderstanding.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I think it means more that a lot of people fetishise queer relationships when there’s only representation in romance.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Associating "queer people being sexual and/or romantic" with "gross" is still hella dicey

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

the misconception is what's gross, not the queer people or their romance?

Glowbat (Aloe)

re: gross misconceptions :Oh! i think i said that Erin- i don't think i did a great job of explaining my thoughts on that. on sites like tapas and webtoons its fairly common for gay couples to be exploited for an audience thats less interested in representation than fetishization(edited)

MJ Massey

yes I think there was some lamenting that it could be difficult to show queer characters without an element of romance to make their identities apparent?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t think they meant gross as in disgusting but gross as in ‘far off the mark’

MJ Massey

because some people wanted to have queer characters but not focus on a romantic plot

@Glowbat (Aloe) I know what you are talking about I think

Deo101

Yeah, though I'd like to add on as someone who is writing LGBT romance, I get lumped in with fetishization content a lot and that is very frustrating for me, too

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

And it does take a lot of digging to find respectful representation in romance instead of stories made by and for straight people that use bad stereotypes to fetishise queer relationships.

Not that all romance by and for straight people does this.

But it’s a problem in the genre

Deo101

I work very hard to portray healthy loving relationships and people lump me in to their hatred of romance in general or categorize my work as bl or discount it for having that. It gets fetishized or dismissed an awful lot and that's very frustrating for me to see happening

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

If you want to talk specifically about something you feel is stereotypical or fetishizing, I wouldn't object to that, it's the broad swipes at all romance that become a problem

Glowbat (Aloe)

agreed

queer romance is very important to represent

i dont think anyone here would imply otherwise

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

And, hey, sometimes queer writers/readers also enjoy a romance that's unrealistic or trashy or silly or melodramatic, I don't want to dismiss "all romance that wouldn't represent a healthy and respectful relationship IRL" either

Glowbat (Aloe)

very true

Deo101

Yeah, not what I was trying to say.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Idk if anyone was saying that tbh

Glowbat (Aloe)

i think our initial conversation though boiled down to that we were happy to see stories with queer people being allowed to just be people doing things that didnt focus on romance

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I'm personally very glad that we are getting a wider variety of queer romance now

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

What we were discussing earlier is more that it’s important to portray queer protagonists in all kinds of genres, instead of only romance. Which doesn’t mean romance isn’t also a valid genre.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Sure, and part of my discomfort is that queer characters have already been "allowed" to do non-romantic things in mainstream media for a long time -- it's being "allowed" to have an explicit romance that's new and different

keii4ii

^ I don't know about that. It probably depends on where you are, both IRL and part of the internet?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I never saw a queer character that wasn’t either tragic, a deviant, or the butt of a joke in media until the late ‘O0s(edited)

MJ Massey

both views are valid--it's good to both want explicit queer romance and to also just want to see queer people doing a wide range of things

DanitheCarutor

@Glowbat (Aloe) Yeah, to parrot what you said. I just chalked the convo up to seeing queer characters expand into different genres, and being happy that queer fiction is starting to be known for more than just romance.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

There was no positive representation in any genre in the media I had access to for most of my life(edited)

Deo101

It helps with the normalization of stories like that, but I also think it makes homophobes be "more comfortable" with gay stories sometimes in a way that bothers me

I have had someone say that my story is the only bl they can stand so I'm sensitive about this subject though

Cause there's a lot to unpack there

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

The "if there has to be a queer romance, at least make it awful and tragic" trope was absolutely true in my area too

yikes, I can see being sensitive about that

Deo101

Like me writing something that primarily isn't romance and just has a romance b plot is making homophobes and fetishizing people read my work and that's frustrating for me in a way I can't articulate. I'm very happy within the LGBT+ community to have these works be made but among the straight people I know it's uncomfortable when they start saying things like "oh yay finally some gay stuff that isn't romance" kind of thing

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah that makes sense

Deo101

From other gay people I get it, it makes sense and I'm the same way! Especially with the oversaturation of bl

DanitheCarutor

@Deo101 Gah I got a comment like that before, it was a weird situation because not only was it unnecessary but... TGtaHR isn't even a romance...

Thinking about it, that's actually kinda worrying.

Deo101

But it's important to remember that the LGBT+ community is a bubble and though it's safe to explore all sorts of stories here, it's not safe outside of our bubble

Or, not necessarily safe

Like a homophobe reading a gay story with an unhealthy dynamic could just bolster their bad opinions about gay people even if it's exploring it in a healthy way

I have a hard time explaining what I'm thinking and I really hope this all makes sense

keii4ii

I get you

Glowbat (Aloe)

(i get what youre saying deo <3 )

Deo101

And its not something we can really change but I think it's important to remember with regards to society at large and how our stories are percieved outside the community

Phew lol

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I get what you're saying, although in that case, the homophobe was probably going to think that no matter what, and if it wasn't the story they'd find some other "evidence"

Deo101

Yeah absolutely

And I think it's important to remember that when talking about exploring stories that have unhealthy Dynamics and things other than romance and whatnot. I don't want those things to become safe for cishets to exploit basically

Like "oh great now I don't need to write them kissing so I can access BOTH the LGBT and everyone else!"

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Ah, you mean like "the author says they're gay, so that counts as representation and LGBT people should buy this, even though there's never anything explicitly gay in the story"

right?

Deo101

Yeah

Deo101

Which again within the community I get and it's important to explore things like that for sure

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think the important difference is, writers within the community are going to do something to indicate the queer identity, even when it's not "having an on-screen romance"

And that's something that, say, your average JKR doesn't bother doing

Deo101

Again I have a hard time explaining myself and I might be tripping over my words a bit here

Yeah that's true as well

I trust LGBT people to be navigating stories with an inherent nuance

For the most part

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

That, or (I think people were talking about this upthread) we don't advertise a story as "look at all this representation!" while the characters' identities haven't come up in the comic yet

Deo101

Yeah I know I didn't say my story was LGBT til I had the married couple kiss cause I was worried people would think I was gaybaiting

I know I'm not but it feels wrong to me like I'm trying to rally up readers kinda thing...

But also if you know you're planning to do it I feel like you can say it'll be there

I just have anxiety LOL

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

No, I get you. Even if it's definitely going to happen in the future of the comic, it'll disappoint readers if you rally them up for something that isn't there yet

That would happen with anything, not just queer identities

Deo101

Yeah I also don't tag my pages or whatever for disability if a character isn't disabled on the page

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Like if it was "read my comic for cool space battles!" when you had only posted the 5 pages of setup with characters having a chill talk in a field

sssfrs

I think what bothers me about lbgtq focused romance stories is that they’re often centered on how ~scandalous~ the relationship is and how the characters have to overcome personal biases or homophobia/transphobia as the central struggle

Deo101

I don't want the wrong audience. I mean I also could probably slap bl on my cover and I feel like I'd get a lot more readers but they're not the readers I want

sssfrs

Or at least I dont enjoy reading stories like that

Deo101

Yeah that frustrates me too, personally

But some people like seeing that overcoming idk

sssfrs

My comic has at least 2 visible prominent gay relationships but its not about romance at all

I guess thats personal preference(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think a lot of the time you also know what intentions the person behind telling a story like that has? I have a straight aquaintaince writing BL and it's totally clear that she thinks the whole ordeal is kinda cute and endearing when it's pretty...harsh for actual queer people

Deo101

Mines got 5 and it is about romance cause I absolutely love romance and I love love, but I am overly frustrated with romance as a genre. Which is why I write my own

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think that goes back to the "talk about a specific trope that bothers you, don't treat it like the whole genre" thing I was saying

Deo101

Yeah I think there's a lot of nuance to it that cishet people largely don't have

sssfrs

I feel like it makes the romance into a statement about how society is bad and its not interesting or groundbreaking to represent that bigotry in your media without adding something new

Deo101

I'm frustrated with the often unhealthy Dynamics and the frequency with which homophobia and transphobia are shown.

I live in a homophobic household I don't want it in my romance cause it hurts to see

But, I don't think it's bad to tackle those issues it's just hard for me personally

sssfrs

I like pairing up side characters but only 2 pairs are going to have an Arc. so far....

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I...feel for many cishet authors it's also a good excuse to not have the characters get together right away without actually thinking about why they would not for other reasons (like personality based). So there's a lot of "I'm not gay!!!" type of thing

Also totally understandable Deo :C

Deo101

Yeah absolutely.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It’s also valid, as a queer author, though, to show characters that do have to overcome their ‘gay panic’ when they first realise they’re gay. It’s something a lot of us have gone through, but it’s important to show the comfort you finally feel in yourself when you come out the other end if it.

sssfrs

Why should fiction include all the shitty parts of real life

Deo101

I think straight people see LGBT authors tackle these issues and go "oh so I can too!!!"

And yeah this is why I'm largely drawn to sci-fi and fantasy, I get to entirely remove all the things that hurt me about reality. Dude can just use a cane and everyone is like dope

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Because sometimes fiction helps us process all the shitty parts of real life. Both happy stories that take away shit and gritty stories that acknowledge shit are valid and important

Deo101

Ppl can just be trans and it's fine

I agree they're all important

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(I think I'm just super bitter bc here I've seen cis and straight women get awards for their queer romance stories which just hmm)

Deo101

^

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I agree it's a super nuanced topic

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

...I feel like you've also gotta make some allowance for bad writing. Like, maybe someone's not getting a lot of nuance in their story because their skills aren't sharp enough to handle it yet.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Agreed, Erin!

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

And one of the ways they'll get good enough to write better stories is by working out issues through writing the worse stories.

sssfrs

My main character is a butch lesbian gnc completely androgynous person and no one is ever going to say anything nasty to her about it

Deo101

I feel you sssfrs lol(edited)

Deo101

I thirst for gentle, nice LGBT stories. I just crave them

Nutty (Court of Roses)

I feel that. As I build Prismal and decided to include lgbt folks in it, my first thought about it was "would there be any reason for them to be hated in this society? No? Then why would I include that theme?"

Deo101

And yes it's important to delve into the harsher realities and I think it's good to use fiction to explore and work through those themes, definitely, but personally no thx

sssfrs

I like where ppl are just all expected to be pan or bisexual by default

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

heh, I literally have 2 comics and one of them is "real world where characters struggle with realistic prejudices" while the other is "fantasy world with 0% homophobia/transphobia."

Something for everyone!

sssfrs

Nice

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I’m too goddamn miserable to write such nice stories, lol. But writing gritty stories where my characters go through hell helps me process the stuff I go through in my life. But I love reading those nice stories where we can forget racism and queerphobia exist.(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hehe...I've decided to go into some queerphobia in my next comic only bc I want to...explore historical queer spaces and the kind of space does not make sense in a world that's 100% accepting

Deo101

Yeah it's just all about that nuance babeyy

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeahhh

Deo101

I think that's also why we see so much more LGBT content of all kinds in indie media

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Absolutely

Less gatekeeping, less opportunity for homophobes to shut it down

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

No big boss complaining it’s not ‘marketable’ to be inclusive

Deo101

And I worry that mainstream stuff will be like "ohoho, so that means I can do it too" *stumbles and sets gay people back 10 years in the eyes of the general public *

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

YEEEEEEAH there’s that

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think the mainstream is going slow enough that that's far from my biggest worry

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

But change never happens smoothly

Sometimes it goes up and down before society evolves into a better mindset

Deo101

Well yeah ofc, but even on a smaller scale of bad people reading good works it is kinda happening I feel like

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

So there’s gonna be periods of shit before being queer is faithfully represented in the mainstream

Deo101

Yeah for sure

It helps normalize things but it also can do it in an unhealthy way and it's frustrating

As in people going "yes let's include gay romance *it's just bl tropes *"

And things like that

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think the best way to counter that is by producing & supporting more stories of all kinds -- the more complex and multifaceted a view people get, the better

Deo101

Yeah

From people who are handling those stories well, too ^^^

Which is subjective of course I know that

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Also, something nobody's mentioned that I think should come up...a lot of times you don't know who's straight/cis and who's not. Like, if it's Famous Mainstream Author JKR, you can be pretty sure, but with small-scale indie creators, how much can you tell the difference between "straight/cis artist who thinks BL tropes are how all real gay relationships work" versus "gay/bi/trans/etc artist who understands IRL fine, but it's fun and self-indulgent for them to write those tropes"?

Especially since the artist could be actively in the closet. Or could still be on their own journey of self-discovery and not know they aren't straight and/or cis yet. All the more so since indie creators are more likely to be younger than well-established mainstream standards.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t know about you guys, but it’s always BLATANTLY obvious to me by how they’re writing.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

How did you confirm it? Did you ask them?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Call it intuition

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I don't think it's always confirmable tho :C

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Granted, sometimes a person writes with enough nuance that I can tell they're queer, but how do you tell a straight writer from an awkward/inexperienced/clunky queer writer?

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I know a lot of authors thinking they were cishet and later on realizing they were not

and some of them wrote a lot of "yikes"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

There’s writing patterns and use of tropes that signal whether the person is actually respectful if the queer community or not

Deo101

Also just cause you're working through things doesn't mean it's a healthy exploration that is good for the community at large

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Even if they’re queer and self-indulging, there’s a lot of tells both in the comics and in their commentary

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

tbh I think some tropes are fair to criticise no matter if the author is queer or not but there are also queer authors writing disrespectful tropes

it's not sth that I see a lot, but I've seen it

Deo101

^ yeah this

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

All questions of their writing aside, there are definitely queer people who don't respect the community IRL, either...

Deo101

Like it's not good to write glorifying rape fic of pedophilia no matter who you are or how it's helping you work through things. I mean you can write it but then to share it is something else entirely

Not saying those are common things but they're pretty very much "bad" things

And actually glorifying rape is something I do see much more than I would have expected

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

And that’s problematic, too. When you’re part of a community but not respectful of it, that’s just as bad as a straight person being homophobic. Sometimes the worst homophobia cones from within the community, but that doesn’t make it okay or healthy.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

If you share a dark story behind accurate warnings and labels, then it can reach other people who are working through something by reading it, and be avoided by people who don't.

Deo101

Yeah there's a lot of lateral agression within the community

Okay but glorification of it isn't a healthy way to work through those things it's not a dark story

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I'm not saying homophobia from within the community is okay or healthy, I'm just saying it doesn't have to indicate that the person is straight/cis.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I have a lot of dark themes in my comics. There is rape, but it is never shown on panel and never never glorified. I think it’s a subject that’s important to talk about, but I find it extremely disturbing how much it’s romanticised in fiction.

Deo101

^^^

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah...

DanitheCarutor

Huh, this convo reminds me of an article a friend sent me from someone's Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/posts/25994657 It talks about creation policing, and problematic fiction. You all proooobably won't agree with it given the direction of discussion (which all points of view are totally valid), but this whole subject is super interesting.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

All right, true, you can’t always know if an author is queer or not. I should have been more specific in whether an author has a healthy view of the LGBTQ community or not.

Deo101

So you might not be able to tell if someone is gay by their writing, but there are certain trends that gay people do not generally fall into that MOSTLY indicate someone is straight, though there's no way to know for sure.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

THAT is always obvious to me.

Deo101

And like def there are bi women who fetishize gay men, and there is transphobia and biohobia and everything within the community

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

If they’re being homophobic or just don’t ‘understand’ the queer community, I mean

Deo101

Etc etc, so even if you can't tell whether a harmful representation is written by someone who is LGBT it's a harmful representation regardless

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

^^^^This

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Yeah. I'm always very hesistant on how to address things like this

Deo101

Me too esp since I have such a hard time saying what I mean

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I'm not saying it's impossible to write harmful representation, but "this is harmful!" gets used as a cudgel against any representation, so often that I'm wary of talking about it as a vaguely-defined blanket category.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It’s hard to articulate things clearly when in fast-paced chats like this

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah, haha

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

At least it's good for leveling people up, huh?

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

eifhiuef pfft

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Lol. ‘You levelled up talking about homophobia!’

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(I feel we're all respectful and try to explain ourselves and give others the chance to do so too)

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

At least it's good for something??

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(so that's good haha)

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yes. Talks like this are super important to help see each others views on tricky subjects

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Yeah, I feel like we're making good-faith attempts to understand each other, which...is not something you always get in internet discussions

To put it very very mildly

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

We all have our own stories and unique perspectives, and that’s important to share both in the fiction we write and in discussions with each other

DanitheCarutor

@Phin (Heirs of the Veil) The subject is pretty sticky. On one hand artists should be allowed to create whatever they like, on the other if that work can perpetuate harm for a certain community should it be allowed? There is a lot of this going around right now where people want sanitization in media, and what works of art are and are not allowed to exist. Not saying it's bad, but it is fascinating. I'm not fully getting into the convo because I'm honestly super neutral.

kayotics

I’m definitely watching the convo play out, it’s interesting to see a chat like this develop

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

yeah I'm taking notes this is not my area of expertise, and it's all good stuff to keep in mind

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I'm okay discussing & criticizing specific examples (which is probably why I keep bringing up Dumbledore...), but I don't like being critical of broad categories, because they can be so ambiguous & easily misused.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

@DanitheCarutor I think it is very hard to differentiate between people who want difficult subjects to be explored (which is valid) and people who don't want to be called out for certain kinks for example and a lot of the times stuff like "purity policing" gets used to shut legit criticism up. On the other hand there are a lot of examples of callout culture gone wild and honestly ??? Idk anymore.

Deo101

Its very frustrating

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

But I'm also at a point where I'm getting super tired of constant discourse so

Deo101

Yeah I've literally had to block words like "ace" cause it's just so often discourse from either side and I'm just so tired of it

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Plus there’s always going to be stories that help one person work through things but that are very toxic and upsetting to someone else. Just like there’s people who are toxic to one person and important to someone else.(edited)

Deo101

I've also blocked LGBT and "feminism" kinda things

I JUST see cats and memes now thank you

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Lee: absolutely, which is why accurate labels are important

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Eyyyy, it's my turn!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yes

kayotics

I think it’s important to curate your online experience, and sometimes NOT curating your experience leads to purity policing

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

HMM

kayotics

But yes tagging is really important!!!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I think there is the creation of a lot of anxiety in what and what you can't tell in stories

Deo101

Tags are super important but also when someone doesn't think or realize they're doing something harmful they might not tag it

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Warning labels all around are always a good idea

Deo101

Like if someone is being a homophobe just cause etheyre homophobic they're not gonna tag that

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

True

Deo101

Why tag it's glorifying abuse if they think it's hot or reality and don't realize that's bad

Etc etc

kayotics

There’s definitely a lot of creator anxiety lately, I’ve had a lot of friends come to me with anxieties about not wanting to start a project they love because they’re afraid of who might attack them online

Deo101

^^^ I've been scared about this

kayotics

Me too, honestly

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Same honestly

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

There’s always the issue if ‘should harmful ideas be given a platform’ vs ‘stifling voices you just don’t want to hear’ it’s a fine line.

Deo101

I once got all in a tizzy cause I was like "oh my god my planet of women is asking a man for help"

Yeah cause some free speech silences other's

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Same

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

And sometimes you get people thinking "if I label this with a warning that it contains Bad Content, the internet police will come after me," so they don't use warnings for that reason, and then it's just bad times all around

Deo101

Yeah.

And also there are things no one thinks to warn about, like some very specific triggers

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah...

Deo101

Its just all around a very difficult to navigate space

DanitheCarutor

@Phin (Heirs of the Veil) Right? People do that with anything, if it's not the "purity police" excuse it's "my style", or "I'm friends with -insert minority here-!" I don't bother with the arguments anymore since I've been pushed into them enough, I'm more into seeing opinion on general art policing, or what is and isn't allowed to exist in art. Sorry, I'm being slow at typing again.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Heck, if we're talking about actual psychological triggers, most of them are going to be super-specific

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I have a trigger for fungal growth on bodies now bc I have 3 people who either have probs with plants growiing on bodies OR funghi lol

Deo101

Ya I have a "someone watching someone else sleep" trigger which people use a surprising amount

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

...wait, Phin, now you have a trigger, or now you use a warning for it?

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

@DanitheCarutor srsly don't worry about it, haha. It's a nuanced topic and I think generalizing is pretty bad when it comes to what you can and can't portray

I use a warning for it, sorry Erin, wasn't clear

I had multiple people approach me so I warn in update posts and should probs also do it on the website

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

no worries, just wanted to be sure

kayotics

I do have an extreme phobia of needles and you’d be surprised how many news sites use active needle shots for vaccination stories

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

GOD I KNOW

I am not afraid of them but like once they are near skin

I don't wanna see...these shots

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I have a deathly phobia of vomiting and there are NEVER warning labels for it.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah I think most people don't regard it and sometimes it's hard to get everything...

a friend of mine, Eli, creates a very gory comic and they put all their warnings on their update post images

and I kinda wanna try to be similarly mindful?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

(I’m okay if it’s in a comic and off-panel or the gross part is not shown but the sound and sight are crippling for me and shows and movies just SHOW it all the time)

kayotics

That’s true. Not a vomit fan.

DanitheCarutor

Ah I've thought about using page by page TWs, and I tried it out with one page, but with the amount of triggering thing in my comic I decided on a general warning. (since almost every page would get a warning) A few of my readers also said they preferred not to see them due to possible spoilers.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Hmm...I have a list of possible triggers in my about section

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I probably should start doing that bc my comics get very bloody

kayotics

I know I’ll have a scene eventually that I’ll want to have a warning on, but I’m not sure how to warn for it without spoiling?

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I installed a spoilertext plugin on one of my comics for that! Now I can put specific warnings at the front of a storyline, and readers who don't have triggers & don't want spoilers can leave them hidden.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

OHH that's a cool idea

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, mine is like a general pop-up that you have to click on to proceed to the comic.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I’m going to have to look at that plugin. Potential spoilers are the only reason I don’t have really detailed warnings on my comics

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Here's the one I use: https://wordpress.org/plugins/inline-spoilers/

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Yeah I'll look into it too. It seems super useful.

Heck thanks Erin!

DanitheCarutor

I don't know how you could make a warning without spoilers, @kayotics! I mean, you might have to if you want to do a page specific one.(edited)

Sorry, my cat sent the message for me.

kayotics

I was thinking a page specific one for the upcoming scene.

So I’m glad that doesn’t seem weird

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I'd say super-general warnings are mostly not spoilers. A movie will say "contains graphic violence", and that doesn't tell you who's being violent, or why, or how it's resolved.

DanitheCarutor

^^^

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah, I think that's not a spoiler, especially if the comic was already violent

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah. I have warnings for things like ‘graphic violence, blood and gore, nudity, etc. But some chapters or pages probably warrant more detailed TWs.

Deo101

Yeah I'm gonna put in my a/n for a few updates before like "hey there are some spooky scenes comin' up!'

kayotics

I wouldn’t say my comic is already violent, so it’s more applicable for this one scene

Deo101

And yeah things like "watching someone sleep" is gonna be at least somewhat of a spoiler...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hmhm

DanitheCarutor

@kayotics I think it really just depends on the person too. Some readers like page by page TWs, and don't see them as spoilers, others are the opposite. Your readers might appreciate a warning more than mine since your comic isn't overall super graphic.(edited)

Gah I can not type today!

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I put "this will get bloody" before some of the vampire storylines, not spoiler-cut -- because it's not a given, but shouldn't exactly be a surprise, either.

Deo101

I also do not mind spoilers whatsoever and I WILL spoil to anyone who asks as I've said many times, but I know not everyone is like me and spoilers are a big deal to many people

"i don't mind spoilers" i love them and they make me enjoy things more for many reasons

DanitheCarutor

Ah same! I'd love to just spill everything!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

(Deo high five bc same)

Deo101

My people

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

tbh spoilers got me interested in many comics and I actively spoil myself

like getting into new comics and reading the updates before jumping to the beginning haha

kayotics

I’m very much the opposite

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I don't want to spoil anything, I want to keep people guessing! But sometimes you gotta.

Deo101

Yes. I get incredibly stressed about whether or not things will work out and spoilers relieve that. Even if it doesn't work out like at least I know

I get so so sooo stressed about it

kayotics

Whenever people tell me spoilers I actively like content less

DanitheCarutor

I don't mind them myself. My mom absolutely hates them, and used to make me spoil every movie if I saw it before her, so I'm pretty alright with it.

Deo101

Yeah ik many people are that way

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah I also think that's fair

DanitheCarutor

Also spoilers don't affect me either since it's not the content that means anything, but how it's used. Imo

kayotics

Usually for me it’s like. “Ok you spoiled a major character death/reveal, that’s not fun for me anymore”

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

OH yeah Kay! Tbh

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

If there's a big twist, I want to be unspoiled the first time I watch/read/etc the thing. If it's handled well, I can always rewatch it again with the knowledge.

kayotics

Because then I don’t get to experience that anymore

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

that's sth that can also ruin a story for me

kinda didn't get into the current season of CritRoll bc of such a spoiler

with comics it's kinda like...I see them on twitter, read along a few updates and then jump to the beginning so there I don't mind spoilers at all

it's more scoping out if the story's for me

Deo101

Oh man I sometimes only get into things because of spoilers LOL I know I'm weird with this but genuinely I love spoilers so much they make me comfortable with what I'm watching. I love rewatching things cause I know how it goes down and I'm not stressed by it

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I sometimes have troubles to deal with...raw emotions towards media so spoilers help me with that too

like preparing myself for it to hurt

(not always tho)

Deo101

Right yeah for sure

Even if I know it won't work out I KNOW and I don't put energy into getting my hopes up

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I hate spoilers, personally. I love going into stories completely blind or with just the bare-bones ‘genre, overall theme’ because I LOVE being shocked and surprised and have plot-twists thrown at me, so that’s what I do with my own comics(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah that's also fair. Right now my brain's not in the mood for that so I gotta play it save hehe

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I still don't like saying "here's what the Beings are" in ads or sales pitches for BICP, even though the page where it was revealed is several years old by now

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

But everyone likes different things so there’s nothing wrong with giving spoilers for your own stories if people want them(edited)

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah it depends honestly and that's pretty okay.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Everyone’s different and everyone’s valid

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I don't spoil my own story, except with artworks and mostly it's without context or cryptic enough that it's not...a real spoiler

yeah!

in that regard, it's just a huge matter of taste

twothirty

i also jump into webcomics, read them backgrounds for a bit then realized im actually into it and read it properly haha

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

hahaha yes

If I get invested without context I know it's good lol

Deo101

I don't spoil on public platforms cause I know people don't wanna necessarily see that (unless it's in an ama but I try to avoid spoilers still) but in private? I'll spill whatever tf u want like

I have and I will again!!!! Lmao

I know no one is gonna write it like me and also it's p linear so the only spoilers people really ask are Character things not plot things, anyways

So I'm not worried about theft im not doing anything super wild or original lol

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

all my favorite panels I've done are all the most spoilery ones, so... whether I share them or not, I lose

Deo101

Aw man

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

SAME

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

nooo

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

but it makes sense! I put all my effort into those moments where the story twists and turns

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Some of my fave panels or pages are when big reveals or plot twists happened

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

and it shows

so meh, I'll live

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

So I can’t share them to people who haven’t read my comic yet XD

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

luckily they don't make a ton of sense out of context, but... as soon as people start reading they might be like OHHH I know what's coming now

but it got them reading so shrug

I guess all mileage varies

Deo101

I feel like even the way I talk about my comic spoils it LMAO whoops

I'm made out of spoilers I can t hold them all in very clumsy

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

haha

I feel the same a lot

(But I also just wanna scream 24/7 about my stories whoopsie)

Deo101

I once had readers asking me to sum up a chapter caus ethey were confused and I just waited til someone else did it cause I was worried I'd spoil Something in trying to sun it up

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Linear stories are good too, though! Just reading a satisfying, well-written story is great; there doesn’t really NEED to be twist and turns for it to be food.

Deo101

Who doesn't wanna scream all the time and their stories hahahahha

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

GOOD

NOT FOOD

GAH

Deo101

Millennium is yummy yummy yum

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

...for the in-universe version of spoilers, I just had a moment of "hang on, this scene could've been way more dramatic if this one character hadn't already been given a certain reveal last chapter"

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

good food, agreed

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Normally I get away with not having a long buffer prepped ahead of time, but for once I wish I could still change this

Nutty (Court of Roses)

i spoil a lot about my characters more than i do the plot lol

i mean except their backstories sometimes

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Oh :C sometimes it's like this, Erin. Reasons buffers are good, but when do you have the time....

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I've tried putting this one on hiatus to prep a buffer, but it turns out I need the deadlines and the regular feedback to push me through making the pages...

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

oh I see. Understandable though...the only time I create real buffer is when I finish a book for print and have a deadline there.

(I wanna try to actually...get better though, since I wanna start a second comic project)

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I mean, sometimes if there's a process that works for you, you gotta just go with it and not waste energy fighting it. Even if it's not the Best or Most Professional way.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

yeah that's true. It's just frustrating when you compare the work you get done in these phases vs. every other time.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Clearly the solution is to split it up into smaller books, so you have more print deadlines!

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

haha, that might be!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I need buffers or I get super stressed. Unfortunately I also find them difficult to keep up.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Buffers are very hard to keep up. I'm running out of mine next week, whoops

But I've already started working on new pages

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I have...a half-finished, past-deadline page open in another window right now, lol

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I haven’t been able to draw for about a month, so one comic’s buffer is getting low and the other’s going to either miss this week or be late.

And I’m stressing about it. -_-

sssfrs

I’m so excited for my story to progress. I’m tempted to talk about it but when I am I think that nothing I say casually will be as impactful as just letting the story actually play out

Desnik

I deal with lack of engagement by throwing my ideas (or myself) at people. I learned that keeping secret twists as spoilers was inhibiting my growth as a writer, so instead I talk through my plots with my writing group and I often walk away with much better ideas to write

We're a kidlit/MG/YA group and I'm writing in a similar fashion, so we usually don't have to warn each other about anything we're writing, which is its own kind of freedom

if I can get the content to be good enough, and land in front of someone who'll help me take it further, then the engagement will follow

keii4ii

(This the right place?)

Deo101

Speaking of a lack of engagement, i feel like my engagement rates are incredibly low. I get a good bit, i get comments on every page and im very happy with that, but it's odd that i dont get more given my amount of readers and I wonder if some comics just aren't the kind of story people feel a need to say anything about, or what?

I think so?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

My engagement rates are... almost nonexistent.

keii4ii

I TOTALLY GET THAT DOUBT

When my anxiety is bad, it gets... really bad. "Maybe my story isn't worth commenting/ there is nothing to talk about it." I know that's just anxiety, so I try my best to not listen to that voice.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Although I think my audience is just not there? My page-views are pretty low, too, so maybe I just don’t have enough readers to comment (outside of you awesome SF perps)

PEEPS NOT PERPS

MY GOD THIS PHONE

keii4ii

Yeah, my views are fairly low too, considering the sub count I have on platforms

Come on, phone. We're not criminals. (Probably. )

Deo101

Yeah, its just weird when i have like. 1000 readers on tapas and get 0 comments i guess? I do kinda feel like my comic is very.... Its very linear its character driven and people can onky say "aw cute ^^" so much so idk what they would say

Like its legit .1%

keii4ii

hides the bloody knife

Deo101

ITS IN THE FLOWER POT!!!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I was getting about 1k daily views right after I joined SF but now it’s back down to about 100 a day, so shrugs

keii4ii

Views though, it's natural they spike like that even if you retain 100% of the people who checked out your comic!

because typically, people only go through the old pages once

so they give you more views upon first visit

Deo101

^^^

keii4ii

But I 100% understand the worry of "why do people check out my comic and decide not to read it... is there something wrong with my work"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

On webtoons I think I have relatively good engagement for Eryl considering my low sub number. I have about 350-some subs and get an average of 1-2 unique comments per page, though that number goes up when a character dies. (edited)

That’s true! They do get kinda ‘falsely’ inflated when people binge-read archives

Deo101

Most comments i ever got is when I said "tell me your pet names"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Lmao, I should try that

Deo101

And then outside of that when luzio and sage do something cute is the most I get like, organically just frim my content

Amas are second most comments which are again, me starting the discussion

Maybe alk my authors comments should be like "tell me about your fave color" that'll inflate my stats

keii4ii

One person told me they don't comment because everything seems so obvious, and they don't wanna be captain obvious. Which I can respect. But I don't think everything is that obvious if the most common comment I get is "I'm lost"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Hmmmm

Deo101

Hahahahhahahahah

Like "NO PLEASE SHARE THESE THINGS"

keii4ii

IKR

Deo101

Help everyone else out!!!

keii4ii

There is a term in Korean comment section culture

"Konan" (from Detective Konan)

It's a term for commenters who explain obtuse stuff for other readers

Sometimes you'll even see comments like "Hurry up, Konans! I'm too tired to think! Spoonfeed me what happened in this update!"

Deo101

Me reading every comic ever

keii4ii

I NEED A KONAN IN MY COMMENT SECTION

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Honestly I wish western readers did that, but they either get attacked for being ‘Captain Obvious’ or people scream SPOILER!!!! at them

Deo101

I really wish people woukd expkain for me too because then i know some people get it, but ALSO i dont want to explain things i didn't show, accidentally.

snuffysam

one thing i've found that helps with engagement is making sure to include something on the page for people to talk about, no matter how relevant it is. like a while back i had a (in my opinion) fairly boring scene where it's basically "where do we gotta go" "i'm not telling" "please" "ok you gotta go here" so to give readers something to talk about i had one of the characters take a hotdog out of a pokeball and eat it.

keii4ii

There was also this incredibly, incredibly obtuse comic. It had a fascinating hook but then became almost impossible to follow. You'd see comments like "so this is the Forbidden Realm that even Konans cannot enter."

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Hahaha

Deo101

I try to make every page have something, i usually have 3 goals i want a page to accomplish but it's not very... Fun i guess? Its just kibda like "yes this happened"

keii4ii

It's also kinda sad when you DO put something important to you, and nobody says anything (or worse, says "so when is it gonna get interesting???")

Deo101

Yeah...

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

So once I spun this theory on a comic by picking it up from context clues. And I was like ‘Hey guys, what if X character is the dragon???’ and everyone was like ‘WELL DUH IT’S IN THE HOVER TEXT.’ I read comics on mobile where hover text doesn’t always work, and after getting sneered at for something ‘everyone knew already’ I was put off of ever being a Konan type again.

Deo101

:(

I never read the hover text unless its by accident I just dont think t

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah. And it wasn’t obvious from reading without the hover text so I was really proud of myself for figuring it out. But it just goes to show how rude commenters can scare away well-intentioned ones.(edited)

keii4ii

aaaugh D:

snuffysam

tbh i'm not sure why an author would put something important in the hover text where mobile readers can't see it. or tbh in blogs, side stories, etc. if it's important to understanding the main story, it should be in the comic.

Deo101

Yeah that's what im thinking... Hover text should be for puns

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It was revealed later that chapter in the main comic, but apparently it wasn’t a ‘secret’ like I thought it was.

keii4ii

Bleeeh, sorry that happened to you. >_< This is why we can't have nice things

Where is the nearest Konans R Us, I want to order one for each of our comics.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah... I’m very socially anxious / awkward so I’ve been scared away from quite a few comment sections. I still read the comics and buy them if they go to print, but a negative commenting experience usually discourages me from ever participating in the discussion.

keii4ii

100% understandable

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Which is why I feel it’s super important for the creators to moderate their comments (or hire a good moderator if they don’t have the time). A lot of comment sections get toxic if the author is lax about fostering a positive discussion environment.

Deo101

That makes me feel much better about the times ive asked people to cut Something out or deleted comments.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I appreciate that effort very much.

Deo101

I worry that its "disengenuous" or something and if someone has a negative opinion I don't want to be like "nope you're ONLY allowed to be nice to me!!!" But it's not good, i don't think, to let people feel safe being mean In my comments.

keii4ii

Yeah, there is being critical, and there is being mean

Deo101

So I rarely do it but I have and I don't feel any guilt over the times i have

Right

keii4ii

Sometimes a comment can tread the fine line between the two and it's really annoying that it's not Obviously, Blatantly Mean

Deo101

Yeah hahahahahhaha

keii4ii

But I try to remember that I too have walked that line unintentionally and obliviously, back when I was younger

Deo101

Right. I have too

I was like "oh man I am so smart and im about ti IMPART MY KNOWLEDGE ON YOU!!!" *Is a jerk *

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

That one comic I was talking about earlier: the author had a hard time keeping up with moderating and eventually took comments off the main site. It was 100% not her fault and she was herself getting emotionally distressed from the amount of negativity in the comments. Especially since the comic itself is really thoughtful and has a lot of messages of acceptance.

Deo101

:(

keii4ii

>_<

Deo101

Uhh but yeah! Does .1% feel like about what y'all get as far as comments:readers goes?

.1-.2

I feel like i have no actual gague for this lol

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It varies from comic to comic (for no quantifiable reason, usually) but that is about right. 99% of readers are lurkers.

Deo101

Dope, I was worried I had like super low numbers when talking with some people and it got me worried about my content

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Plus subs don’t necessarily translate to active readers. A lot of people just never clean out their library after they stop reading something / subbed it to read later and never got around to it or left the site entirely.

Deo101

But I've also just got a lot of anxiety about what im producing and how it's percieved in general

Yeah ik

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I can see people binging my archives from my stats but maybe 1 in 100 or less leaves any comments.

snuffysam

on average, each subscriber to my comic has posted about 45 comments total (which is like 0.07 comments per subscriber per page) if someone clicks on a page (subscriber or not), there is a 0.5% chance of that person leaving a comment.

Deo101

See for me its like. 1 in 1000 leaves a comment...

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

(It’s okay I get anxiety over it, too)

Deo101

Yeah i was gonna say uhhh whats it called

Shoot i lost mt train of thought.

Right. I feel like the longer a comic goes on tbe less frequently people engage

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, I’ve noticed that in my comics, too.

Deo101

Like less readers will have made it to the end, more will be inactive, etc

snuffysam

i've found that my active commenters take a jump in early march (i.e. right after the comic's anniversary), and any time a book ends (since, i guess people like seeing how all the stuff that's happened in the book culminates)

Deo101

Oh that's an interesting note

snuffysam

i suppose that's some other advice on increasing engagement - give a reason for even caught-up readers to leave comments. one thing i've been doing is redrawing old pages and releasing the redraws on anniversaries, which gives reason for people to re-read.

and for end of book stuff, i suppose people are more willing to predict how something is going to end when it's close to ending

Deo101

Hmmmm

I'm taking notes

twothirty

seeking validation through comments is my downfall, because i just dont seem to write a comic that has the type of readership who is into that. What helped was just looking at google analytics and being like "oh right, of course people read this, its clearly here in this data" haha.

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

twothirty, same. It's kinda hard to get out of that mindset.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Raises hand I need constant reader validation and get depressed easily when there isn’t. It’s not healthy, but it’s really hard to break out of that mindset.

Deo101

Im not seeking validation through comments, but when i have thousands of readers and get only like 5 it does make me look twice and start wondering if there's something I'm doing wrong.

And yeah it's hard to break out of the mindset

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Me constantly atm haha

Deo101

Especially if you've bee. Hurt in the past and you feel like people secretly hate your work because... In the oast they have

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

I wonder if it's actually...a change in how people interact with media nowadays?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Oh yeah, definitely, Deo. I got so much negative feedback when I first started posting webcomics and it still sticks with me today.

Deo101

Yeah I've been lucky where people have been mostly nice to me or otherwise just indifferent which makes it so I don't have a super negative experience that my anxieties latch onto

And its STILL hard

Because words of affirmation is my love language lol

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Partly I think it was because I was creating a lot of gender-nonconforming characters in an era when that wasn’t well-accepted in Western comics (reminder that I was surrounded by a veeeery conservative environment at the time), and partly because my skills were just not what they are now. There were a lot of nasty comments from both strangers and people I knew, and it was really tough to work through. I think if I hadn’t had the Tomgeeks forum to hang out in, I probably would have given up.

(For you young’uns, Tomgeeks was a webcomic list site and we had a really tight group in the forums. A lot of that old crowd are now in Spider Forest).

Kabocha

(Sorry, saw the tomgeeks mention! I remember aspiring to be in that group one day, but I was a lil' too much of a noob back in the day.) A lot of media is kind of... Sometimes you need to put a call to action to be like, "HEY LEAVE A COMMENT!" or something - else, they forget in a lot of cases, but ofc that's no guarantee.

keii4ii

Re: people being less willing to engage the longer a comic has been going on, that is definitely a thing

I think it's called archive burn or something

and I feel it too sometimes, as a reader. I feel like I'm not "allowed" to start reading a comic unless I can find a big enough chunk of free time to finish the archive in one session

It's 100% irrational but... it is a thing

I've found that I don't experience it IRL, with physical books. The end of each volume is a really good stopping place

snuffysam

then i suppose a problem is that webcomics don't really have stopping points you can physically see like physical books like when you're reading a book series, you know where one book ends, but when you read a comic you don't really unless you check how many pages each chapter has

and even then it's hard to keep that in mind when it isn't physical

mariah (rainy day dreams)

I definitely understand that feel. It's kept me from doing a lot of the book club comics because I'm like "I got ten pages in, but that's not enough to comment" T_T

snuffysam

maybe someone could program a widget for comic sites that works similarly to the page indicators in ebooks. like "you're 40% of the way through the chapter, and at your current reading speed you have 10 minutes left"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Comic Rocket!

mariah (rainy day dreams)

Does Archive Binge also have a feature like that?

I feel like they might... I don't use those kind of readers so I'm not super familiar with them.

snuffysam

archive binge lists what page you're on and how many pages the comic has, but there's no reading speed thing no

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don't know. I'm technically on Archive binge, but didn't get any subs there so I didn't look into it past creating my listing. I don't use those services myself because I like a nice long archive to work through, but I know that comic Rocket shows you how much of an archive you've read.

snuffysam

also, the thing i'm talking about would be for chapters as well as the whole comic. because if there is a big archive, people like to know how long they have before a good stopping point

mariah (rainy day dreams)

I'm on Archive Binge. I don't think I have any subs either but definitely get traffic regularly as if I did. How even does internet work ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

snuffysam

i guess recently updated?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I usually check out the archive page of a comic to get a good idea of chapter length, myself. So I know if I'm in for 10 pages chapters or 100 page chapters. Plus, idk, I have no problem stopping anywhere and picking it up again later, but I may be a pretty atypical reader.

Lmao, I have no idea how the internet works. I was one of the first people to list on Archive Binge and I have never gotten a single click from it. I get a steady number from Comic Rocket, though.

keii4ii

I wonder if it'd be worth experimenting with chapter numbers? Like, re-number existing chapters like "Season 2, chapter 2 of 15" instead of "chapter 20" ?

Deo101

^ thats a good idea

seeing "chapter 20" makes me as a reader go like, oh god, theres so many,,

snuffysam

^ that's one of the major reasons i label things "book X chapter Y" instead of just counting up chapters forever though adding "out of" is an interesting addition...

keii4ii

I'm nearing the end of season/ book/ whatever 2. I should give this a try

Cronaj

Lol, my books are going to be 3 chapters long each, so I don't think it would make much sense for me XD

keii4ii

Yeah, my chapters are short but numerous, so this might have a different effect than comics with longer but fewer chapters

Deo101

I'd be afraid of saying "out of" cause... well, i dont know how many heheh...

it all gets wacky when it comes time to actually make the thing

snuffysam

i mean, could add 'em retroactively as each "season" finishes

Deo101

oh thats true!

keii4ii

I would probably do "Chapter x out of [REDACTED]" (not that but something similar) when I start posting book 3

Cronaj

Yeah, my chapters are around 35-50 pages, so they're pretty long'

snuffysam

listing how many chapters are in book 3 would kinda spoil a twist lol, so i'll probably only do it retroactively

same lol

and some are 80 pages

book 3's going to have one 120 page chapter which is wild

Cronaj

I was thinking about printing 4-5 chapter books, make it more like a manga-length

keii4ii

You know, some comics (Korean comics do this a lot) do like... Chapter 10: Happy Day, followed by Chapter 11: Happy Day (2), followed by Chapter 12: Happy Day (3)

Cronaj

but full color printing is expensive

keii4ii

Dividing what might have been a single chapter into digestible chunks

snuffysam

i've split "arcs" into multiple chapters before, but unfortunately there aren't really any solid split areas in the chapter in question

Cronaj

and I doubt anybody wants to shell out $25+ on a 200 page comic

This is of course, a consideration for the future, as I don't even have the first chapter finished yet, but ya know

Come next year, I'll have some big decisions to make

@keii4ii Is that a webtoon thing? I've noticed that webtoons have shortish chapters

snuffysam

webtoons an entire chapter is posted at once

keii4ii

It's a Korean thing, which means Webtoons gets some of it

Cronaj

I mean, technically I post my comic in scrolling format, so I consider it a webtoon, but it's definitely drawn for print

@snuffysam, I mean the length of the chapters. The chapters (or episodes) are usually somewhere between 50-100 panels long, which is anywhere between 10-20 pages of a traditional comic

keii4ii

(Tangent, but as a Korean speaker I'm very weirded out by the word "webtoon" in English contexts. Over there every webcomic regardless of format is called a webtoon; I guess it's like anime/manga in Japanese? That in Japan, every animated show is anime, and every cartoon thingie is manga?)

Cronaj

Yeah, that makes sense

In the english speaking world, originally there were comics and webcomics, with little difference between except that one was posted online

but when Korean webtoons entered the English-speaking market, the naming conventions changed

The major difference being the prevalence of scrolling-format webtoons, which made people think that the difference between webtoons and webcomics is the format

but really, it's just a naming thing

You can call a comic a manga, and people expect a black and white comic in a specific style, but really, it's just a comic in Japanese

keii4ii

Yeah

Deo101

I usually just say "scroll style comic" or "page format comic" because im putting pages up on webtoons so it feels... weird to me

keii4ii

That too

IT'S A PICTURE STORY THINGIE WITH SPEECH BALLOONS

Deo101

hahahaha

Cronaj

In the end we are all just children XD

kayotics

this is really late, but i've been getting a lot more comments on my main site lately and I have no idea what I did to encourage that.

Deo101

people caught on

kayotics

That's probably all it is, but it's really surprising that my main site is the one getting more comments, since I wouldn't say it's necessarily a well built comment system? It's the native CMS comment system, and I require the first comment to be moderated

keii4ii

Does this mean I can claim I started reading Ingress before it got famous 8)

kayotics

yes

BUT, I'd say that the estimation of 1% of readers (or whatever the number was) is still accurate.

Deo101

.1% ish

kayotics

I have the most eyes on my comic over on Tapas, and while I do get a handful of comments there, it still equates to less than 1% of the total people subscribed. I'm sure there's a lot of reasons for that (like subscribers who aren't regular readers, people who quit the app, etc), but even the ratio of views to comments is pretty low.

Deo101

yeah I've been noticing that too

I have the most eyes on webtoons but I still have like. a good chunk on tapas and I think those are just more... casual sites

kayotics

yeah absolutely

Deo101

like on comicFury I have way higher engagement rates and i think that's pretty typical cause most of that audience there is also creators

kayotics

I'm sure there's some people who are pretty dedicated on Tapas, but I'd guess that there's more dedicated readers on my self-hosted site, just because they have to specifically seek out the content.

Deo101

^that makes a lot of sense to me

I know a lot of people who follow me on tapas are following 100+ other comics

and i know for SURE I wouldnt be able to take the time/effort to comment on like 10+ comics a day, assuming theyre even keeping up with all thsoe

wow yeah I just checked my list this person has over 6,000 comics theyre subscribed to, and a few have over 500

just on the first page of my readers(edited)

sooooo yeah it makes sense why engagement would be low if people are regularly reading that mant...

keii4ii

I actually rambled about this on twitter recently!

Deo101

and also makes me feel a little bit less bad when people are confused hahahahaha

keii4ii

How I thought I'd get a very small readership who are into what I'm making, but I ended up getting that very small readership PLUS a huge number of people who are just casually reading it

That first expectation was mostly based on my experience with my previous webcomic, but things were different back then. Big platforms weren't a thing, so casual readers were less common.

Deo101

yeah that's really neat

since I've only been making millennium for like... a little over 2 years and it's my first comic, I kinda just started with like 5 mirrors and was like "alright well, lets see how this goes I guess"

I had only ever read one webcomic before i literally have no idea how or why i got so convinced into making a comic

but since I was like 12 years old I was like "hm... I am going to make a comic i think." I just never did any research or tried til recently

or read any. I dont know how this happened

keii4ii

Casual readers vastly outnumbering the dedicated ones used to make me feel like I was doing something wrong, but I think that's just how the times are.

Deo101

Yeah :/ it's hard NOT to notice and feel like you're doing something wrong though.

when its like "okay i have 7,000 subs and got 5 comments" it's like ??? what am i doing WRONG

even though... its nothing wrong

it just be that way

hard to match those two ideas up though

almost went to continue this thought in an entirely different channel.

I think there is also something to be said for people not wanting to repeat a comment

like "oh someone already said what I thought so I'll just give it a thumbs up"

keii4ii

That's what upvoting is for!!!

Deo101

yup!

keii4ii

though, tfw highest voted comments are like "I have no idea wtf is going on lol"

Deo101

YEAH.

also do you ever comment on your own pages?

like not replying to people

keii4ii

I think I did once or twice, back when I actualy had relevant info and didn't have enough room in author's notes or something

Deo101

I've done it a few times, but it's usually kind of to ask questions where I can get replies

keii4ii

I have also seen a pro Korean creator post "first" on their own comic because they were tired of seeing so many of those

Deo101

I did that once LMAO

it's funny when people comment on my comic "FIRST!!!" cause i'm like. dude i get like 10 comments it's not that special to be first

but i'm happy theyre there and theyre excited its kinda cute i guess

keii4ii

Yeah, it's harmless

Deo101

and it's also nice to have people think that they have to race to be first

even though they don't

so it's kind of a nice comment to get even if it's not commenting on my work at all

keii4ii

It's kinda like hitting the like/heart button, just with more HURRY POINTS

Deo101

yeah hehe

oh i do 100% like all my own pages though

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I actually get the most commenters on Webtoons but I’m (fairly?) sure I have more readers on my website.

Deo101

on webtoons, I don't do it on tapas cause you can see i did it LOL

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I think I only ever got one First! comment and that was the only comment on that page.

keii4ii

Hey no shame in being your own #1 fan

Deo101

the one time I said "first!" was cause it had no comments on it for like a year and a hal

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Oh no, I don’t like my own pages. For some weird reason I feel like it’s cheating.

Deo101

and hell YEAH! I'm my number one fan so much that i'm making a dang comic for how much I like these characters ;D

keii4ii

I don't feel bad about liking my own pages, but I rarely do it because I wait a bit before even looking at the post

Deo101

inflate your own stats its cool. all the cool kids are doing it

keii4ii

And by the time I look at it, I forget about liking

Deo101

I only do it on webtoons cause I have to manually post there anyways

so i post and its like "heres the page!" and im like :) good job me :)

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I might start doing it. XD I get an average of 5-10 likes per page so why not.(edited)

Deo101

I also rate myself 10* or whatever the max is wherever I can

keii4ii

Yeah, and TBH one like isn't gonna give you an unfair advantage anyway

Deo101

^

keii4ii

If you're making a dozen alt accounts to give yourself more likes, now that's a bit questionable

Deo101

yeah that would be not so good

but you're a real account who likes your work so why not!

keii4ii

Yeah!

Deo101

I also honestly kinda like to sub to my own stuff and like my pages partially to make sure it's all working right

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I should probably rate myself 10* bc both my comics got ratings-bombed at one point for really dumb reasons.

Deo101

like to see when the page goes up and everything

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

The ratings have slowly crawled back up a ways, but it’s always disheartening when people attack my comics for stupid things.

keii4ii

Oh, to go back to an earlier point about asking questions to readers to encourage commenting, I might straight up ask next week if my comic is making any sense.

Deo101

ohhhhh man i dont like swingin at that hive lol

keii4ii

I'll have to word it well because I do not want it to be a pity party

Deo101

but i mean it might encourage the people who do get it to go "yup!"

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I do straight up ask every now and then. Sometimes I’ll get a pity comment when I do and sometimes it’s still crickets.

Deo101

also I feel really lucky that I havent had anyone be like, mean to my about my work.

I feel like trolls have really gone down in popularity

keii4ii

like even right now I feel like nobody's getting it (except maybe <10 people) so..... I don't think the answers could make me feel worse

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I meant I straight up ask for comments, ugh, I misread Keiiii’s post.

I GET IT, KEIIII

I LOVE UR BABIES

Deo101

oh man, I could never just ask for comments. if I'm feeling really down I usually send it to my friends like "can i have smth nice please" I just get really anxious asking people for things

not that asking is necessarily bad I just, as a person could never do that

also keiiii I havent read it yet but it's on my list cause the way you talk about your work and what I do know of it... seems like it would really jive right with me

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I usually do it along the lines of: ‘If you enjoy this comic, don’t forget to leave a comment! Getting feedback motivates me to keep drawing!’

Deo101

oh okay thats not so bad

oh my god how are the eyes moving

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I’m shameless, you can say it

Deo101

I have too much shame probably

keii4ii

It is my anxiety moving the eyeballs

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Give me sone of your shame, it’ll even us out

Deo101

please take it

keii4ii

(anxiety with Nitro powers)

Deo101

NOOO dont be anxious im gonna love it

god that eyes shaking emoji is so great

keii4ii

ikr!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

So fun fact- my real face eyes do that

keii4ii

I think Tatsumaki wants to see you do it

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It’s called nystagmus and it’s super trippy if you’ve never seen it before!

keii4ii

OH, I knew someone with that condition!

I never noticed anything about their eyes (only heard about them having the condition from talking), because I never met them while wearing my glasses X'D;;

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

My eyes just RANDOMLY do it a lot and it really freaks people out XD

Desnik

I've found that comments don't matter too much, but getting a boost from someone with a big following does

and the only comments I take seriously are from people I trust, although I get it: chasing the internet numbers is fun

snuffysam

what do you mean by "comments don't matter" you mean, like, in terms of garnering popularity?

Desnik

yeah, and as validation they can be a bit fluffy too

my perspective changed when I started printing out my work as zines and got people to buy them irl, it was very eye-opening

very few people commented on them online but in person I've found out they're not bad? And one of them got me a lettering job

keii4ii

Eh, I think it's okay to have different goals. To some people, good comments mean the world, and that's totally valid to want that.

Desnik

I know, just stating my pov

keii4ii

I mean that to some people, a good comment is not just an "internet number."

Desnik

fair enough

I believe I allowed for 'good comments' as being from someone I trust

keii4ii

Me, I treasure insightful comments from anyone who's invested in my story. To each their own

FeatherNotes

I have a book that I write them down to give me a lil boost to morale when I need it! i def appreciate the time it took for someone to write something thoughtful

keii4ii

Yeah!

Capitania do Azar

Oh comments are like.. What I like the most! (not all comments are the same tho). The reason I put my story out there is so I can share it and discuss it with people and the fact that a few take some time off their day to actively tell me what they think it's what keeps me moving

eli [a winged tale]

I really enjoy comments too. I always respond to my Instagram ones but not the comic ones mostly because of platform difficulties

Glowbat (Aloe)

I love reading through all the comments- they really motivate me when I'm having a low point and need a pick me up to get goin on pages. I just wish I was better at knowing how to respond instead of just liking the comment and hoping they recieve my telepathic brainwaves of gratitude

Phin (Heirs of the Veil)

Replying to comments is very hard and I always have the anxiety of "ruining" it haha ;; whatever it is (the person's enjoyment of my work?? who knows)

Glowbat (Aloe)

I feel that- part of me is always nervous I'm gonna say somethin to off put them or smthn.

Though I do try my best to curate comment sections if things are looking like they're gonna get rowdy

keii4ii

YEAH, and/or sometimes you're like "this comment is Awesome and deserves an Equally Awesome reply... HOW DO I DO THAT" and get stuck in a loop

Glowbat (Aloe)

yesss exactly that

I'm not that clever and I require lots of time to come up with anything I'm confident in lol

and by the time I have something cool to say back its been like a week

keii4ii

I made a Discord icon to express my internal response in a visual form to such Awesome comments, but I can only use those on Discord

This one:

Glowbat (Aloe)

Hehe

cuteee

and also a mood

keii4ii

Sparkling tears of happiness

Capitania do Azar

I believe them

Cronaj

Man... I will admit, I barely respond to comments

And that probably sounds terrible

But I honestly don't have time to respond to every comment

As well as the anxiety of not know what to say

It does depend on platform tho

keii4ii

I mean, as a reader I don't expect a reply if my comment is like "ooo nice!"

Cronaj

Generally, I respond more readily to comments on Tapas than on Webtoons, because I only have like 2 commenters at most on Tapas

And usually it's readers who ALWAYS comment, so I almost feel like they deserve a response, even if it's just a smiley face or a "thank you"

keii4ii

But if I've written a long ass essay comment, it would be nice to have some kind of engagement with that. Don't get me wrong, the creator doesn't owe me a reply but it's like... should I ever do this again with this comic. Or is my reply-writing time better spent on another comic

Cronaj

True

keii4ii

I def respect that not every creator has time to read all of the comments, regardless of how many comments they typically get

Cronaj

On Webtoons, I have way more engagement, but most of it is thirst for my characters or talking about the art style

keii4ii

and that not every creator may even aim to get comments

Cronaj

So I don't usually know how to respond to stuff like that

keii4ii

But if that is the case........ I would rather know before committing myself to multiple essay-length comments

Yeah, that is understandable!

Cronaj

I read every comment, but I don't want to respond to all of them

keii4ii

I'm 100% cool with "thicc" comments on my MC's butt or on my tiger dude's legs, but I can't necessarily think of productive replies to those

Cronaj

The only comments I respond to on Webtoons are either a) incredibly funny, b) meaningful and noticing more than the art, or c) a genuine question

Like if someone asks about my update schedule

Or if someone wants to know which programs I use

I had one comment about how good my grammar in the dialogue/thoughts is, and I felt so honored that someone else noticed

Usually I get comments about the art (which is also nice), but I prefer comments about the story or subtleties

keii4ii

It's the best thing when people notice the things that you put a lot of thought and love into

Cronaj

For several years in high school, I played around with the idea of getting a writing degree, so grammar and literary language have a special place in my heart

sssfrs

I respond to every single comment... I get one comment a month pretty much though

When friends or readers say nice things about my comic on any platform I save a screenshot and read them if I start to feel like nobody likes what I’m making

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I do the exact same

FeatherNotes

Its a good practice when things are kind of slow! Or just for that lip morale boost too

[poeticandvaguelysweet]

Jurassic World

Summary: She was small, helpless and unable to voice her decision in the matter when Claire plucked the baby from her crib and fled Lockwood Manor without looking back. 

Can they make things work for their relationship and the two-month-old they kidnapped? Will they crack under pressure or flourish in newfound roles?

Part: 1/?

The people have spoken. I asked a twitter poll if I should just post the first chapter or work on the fic more. 63% told me to post. Here you have it. 

No one really asked for this. There were a few people on twitter who finally encouraged me to work on it and push through my guilt for not spending time on prompts. 

It is nowhere near finished so please be patient. I am so excited to share Maisie Grady with you all. I’m scared I haven’t worked out all the knots but y’all are usually pretty open-minded when I throw peculiar things at you.

As always, I want to know what you think! What’s going to happen? How’re things going to go?! Bonus love to those of you who know the title reference. 

AO3

LITTLE NUTBROWN HARE

They had escaped. The Stygimoloch travelling in the opposite direction as Claire and Owen took to the stairs. They climbed their way to the second level of the holding bay, reaching rows of glass that served to separate the lab equipment from the cells.

There were was no one. The space desolate of human life as noise seemed to cluster in a different part of the manor’s basement. Owen and Claire crept down hallways not encountering a single soul as noise ricocheted off the walls, nothing but mumbles the further they got away from it. Owen decided it was a bad idea to move towards whatever was happening. Eli Mills and Ken Wheatley had left them for dead and locked them up more than he was happy with for a 48 hour period.

She followed, the two of them silent as their boots moved across the floor. Owen picked a door to his left, leading them both into another empty lab. The air was still while she waited for him to move, the sweat on their bodies lingering under her nose as Owen extended an arm in front of her. For a long while, her breathing was all she could hear, tangling with Owen’s just a step in front of her while Claire’s ears prickled to noticed what he had. For a beat, nothing stepped forward, growled, clicked or spoke.

Claire was about to hiss ‘what?’ at him, leaning into his shoulder when she heard it. A cry. Definitely human but not adult. The sound was strangled, tested out on new lungs, only small and still forming. Her eyes darted around the space, absorbing the lab, looking for the similarities between this one and the others they had seen. She just wanted it to be the same, another dinosaur incubation lab, breeding a cloned life where it shouldn’t be.

Owen took a small step forward, and Claire followed, matching each move with one of her own, respecting the silent rule that she had to stay behind him.

Standing in the centre of the room, blue light their only guidance as it radiated off sleeping monitors with bubbles rolling across their screens. A few were on, globes embedded in the shelves, ice blue and clinical. More for decoration than what they were a practical purpose. It hadn’t mattered. Claire’s eyes settled on a corner of the room, where the small cry had come from. Sitting there was a crib. ‘Owen …?’ She whispered.

Owen kept his distance. Claire losing visual track of him as she stepped closer. He wanted to leave. She could feel it. There was something about this whole thing that made him antsy. He didn’t want to step closer to that crib, didn’t want to tangle their lives with whatever lay on the other side of the side panel. If he saw, he would be compelled to do something, and Owen wasn’t sure he was ready for that. He just wanted to turn a blind eye and not get involved any further.

‘C’mon, this ain’t none of our business. We need to keep moving.’ He reached for her, fingers grazing the tacky material of her shirt, salt dried into the threads, making it stiff. ‘Claire.’ He said her name when his touch didn’t get her attention. His head ached, whole body exhausted from the day they had. This was their opportunity to get out, find safety and let their bodies collapse in a heap on the floor. He just wanted to put his guard down and not have to pick it back up again at least for twenty-four hours.

She wasn’t listening.

Instead, Claire had inched close enough to peer into the crib in the corner. The cry sounded a second time, looking for something but unable to communicate as Claire laid eyes on the baby within. ‘It’s a baby.’ She told him, voice hollow as her brows knitted together in concern. She looked for him over her shoulder, finding his back to her as she turned back to the tiny life they had uncovered.

The baby was small. Blanket loose around their little body as arms and legs slowly managed to wiggle free. Claire watched, caught in the movement of the child, head tilted towards the wall of the crib, mouth open and searching. She was drawn in and unable to pull herself away as she watched the baby move, another cry falling from its small lips. The little body rocked with a cry, an instinct flaring in Claire as she reached down to pick the baby up, blanket and all.

She could have sworn it was instinct, a need to protect as she reached in, fingers itching to set themselves against the warm body and soothe the baby’s upset. It had been years since her nephews were little and even then, Zach had been the only she had experience with during infancy. Claire was sure she could remember how to hold a child that small, it hummed within her along with the need in her chest begging her to move.

Her movements were slow, hands gentle under neck and back as inch by inch the baby rose out of the crib. When Claire turned, infant snug in the crook of her arm Owen had his head down, hands flicking through a folder.

‘Maisie.’ Claire and Owen said at the same time. Her fingers had found a small name tag around the child’s ankle just as Owen lifted his head from the papers he was reading. He finished the name, sounds drifting off into the quiet lab as she stared. It wasn’t every day that he saw Claire Dearing standing in front of him, holding a baby, blankets dangling from her arms. If it weren’t for the state of her clothes and the scratch on her chin, that vision would have fit perfectly into a daydream he would have denied ever having.

On the counter in the centre of the room sat the folder Owen had been leafing through. There was a picture of the baby stuck to the cover, her name written in thick sharpie underneath it along with a series of numbers neither Owen or Claire knew what to do with.

‘Why is she in here all alone?’ Claire asked, wide eyes fixing on Owen before they drifted to the grizzling girl in her arms, body so unbelievably light but stable in her grasp.  

What could Owen say? He didn’t have the answers to that question, only a shrug. Claire wasn’t buying it. ‘Says in here she’s only a few months old.’ Two to be exact, as two of his large fingers tapped on the cover. ‘Put her down.’ It was more of a demand than a request, ‘We need to get out of here’. Her feet were glued to the floor, Claire unable to move despite knowing that she needed to turn around and put the baby back where she had pulled her from. She shouldn’t have picked her up in the first place, but something told her too, the exact same thought that suggested the baby go with them.

‘I can’t.’ She admitted, arms tightening on the baby.

Owen turned back to her, ‘Claire, we really need to go’.

She shook her head. ‘I can’t put her down.’ She wanted to. Claire needed to do as Owen said, follow his lead, find their friends and get the hell out of Lockwood Manor before one species or the other managed to break out and wreak havoc on the house. ‘Why is she in here alone … in a lab?’ She asked a second time, Owen just as short of answers as he had been earlier. ‘There are dinosaurs out there,’ only a floor or two below them, ‘We can’t leave her.’ She wouldn’t. ‘She’s in here crying, all by herself … she’s too young to be alone.’ He saw the way her grip tightened, her eyes pleading with him to do something. He could nod his head and agree that she come with them, or he could physically take that baby out of her arms.

Something was stopping Owen too, a softness settling over his features as worry stirred in his gut. No baby that small with a loving mother and father, in a safe home environment, would be left on their own … in a lab … with a folder that had her name and picture on it.

Claire stood in the one spot, rocking the infant she held. The cries quietened, and Owen felt his heart crack at the sight of Claire watching that little girl. ‘I swear to God, Claire, do not make me put that baby’s life above your own.’ He knew it would happen, the need to choose between her or a two-month-old defenceless life. Just like she was making him approve of leaving or taking the baby. Something would happen. Something was bound to happen in this haunted mansion esque building filled with prehistoric creatures that weren’t even supposed to be there, to begin with. It was destined to go wrong.

But this changed everything. Owen wouldn’t put a baby at risk just so he could find Blue nor would he venture further into the manor to locate Zia and Franklin. They would have to make do on their own because his priorities had just been changed dramatically.

She nodded, short and sharp, a small smile pulling at her lips as she stepped into line behind him. He had a hand on the handle, ready to lead them back into the hallway when Owen stopped, turned, retrieved the file he had briefly glanced at and tucked it into the waistband of his jeans.

‘You need to keep her quiet.’ Owen warned, door peeling away from the jamb as he stepped out, checking the coast was clear before he motioned for Claire to follow.

Of all things, Claire Dearing didn’t know how to keep a baby quiet. Nevertheless, she nodded, looking down at Maisie as if to put the promise on the child herself. ‘Let’s get out of here.’

[…]

It didn’t hit her until they were standing in a Walmart a few hours South-East of Lockwood Manor. They took a baby. Kidnapped her. Stole the child right from her crib. A baby that probably had a mother. And yet, Claire couldn’t seem to find any remorse as Owen drove a stolen car, Claire sitting beside him, holding onto the baby tightly as they travelled without a car seat.

Owen had a buddy who lived nearby, the kind of friend he gained in the NAVY that owed him a favour. He knew the address, pulled up in a driveway, told Claire to wait in the car. His friend gave them keys to another vehicle, one not stolen, promising to get rid of the one they had parked in his driveway. He also handed Owen a stack of cash that, if spent wisely, could last them a couple of weeks. Neither of them had their wallets, the realisation dawning on Claire that her phone was gone too.

She felt like they were breaking the law, holding a baby that wasn’t hers on a strangers property as Owen exchanged quiet details. He wanted to leave her there, thirty minutes max while he ventured out to the nearest department store and purchased a car seat. Claire insisted that Owen didn’t know what he was doing before she climbed into the car and buckled herself in.

If she was completely sincere, Claire didn’t know what she was looking for in car seats either as they stood in the empty store during the graveyard shift. Owen had to hunt down a college student that worked there, someone who directed him to another staff member able to assist. The girl that helped was too chipper for 11PM after the last few days they had. She was a sight for sore eyes nonetheless as she cooed at the baby Claire held, promising to take the car seat up to the registers but not before she helped them with anything else.

Claire hated feeling useless. She shooed the girl away despite needing extra assistance as they wandered towards baby bottles, pacifiers, toys and formula. ‘How do you know what to get?’ Owen asked, feeling a little baffled as they stood in front of a row of bottles. All of them promising to be ‘no nipple confusion’, ’95% baby acceptance’ that also promote ‘healthy oral development’ along with other things that were making him uncomfortable and confused.

She shrugged, ‘Karen had these when Zach was a baby,’ or at least the brand looked familiar. She threw a box into their shopping cart before reaching for a pack of pacifiers. ‘We need to feed her, soothe her, entertain her — diapers!’ She was counting things off in her head, a mental checklist with her arms full, Owen pushing the cart behind her.

‘It’s only for a few days, Claire.’ They needed to lay low. Not bring attention to themselves, and then he would take Maisie into a police station, her file in hand and tell them where to look for her parents. A week max but no longer than that. They couldn’t raise a baby … not a stolen one at least.

Something slid across her face, a wall or sliding glass door as she turned back to him, a tin of formula slipping from her hands and into the cart. ‘Babies need a lot of things, Owen.’ He was learning that she wasn’t wrong in that regard.

‘But, you agree? We’re not keeping her.’ He stopped Claire’s hip right beside the cart, her back to him as Owen tried to peer around her shoulder. She only sidestepped the cart, turning the corner and disappearing until he followed.

‘I need you to pick one of these up.’ Boxes of diapers were stacked in six rows each of them one box too high above her head. Claire tapped on the appropriately sized box before she walked away from him, dancing a small sensory teddy over the baby’s head.

‘I need to know we’re on the same page.’ He followed her, Claire stopping at the baby clothes, her hand dusting over a few items before she picked them up. She was ignoring him, and that alone told Owen there was too much on her mind. He couldn’t tell if she was using the baby to divert other trauma’s in her mind or if something else was happening.

‘She looks too small for this.’ The tag read 0-3 Months but held up in the air it looked bigger than what would be comfortable on the small girl. He hummed, agreeing but unable to reach a solution. ‘I understand.’ Claire admitted with a sigh. ‘I just don’t know how comfortable I feel with sending her back there.’ Back to the lab. He let go of their shopping cart to reach over and squeeze her arm. Owen felt the exact same, but maybe there was something in her file that would get the girl adopted instead of sent back to her parents. ‘I knew Benjamin Lockwood. Had met him briefly,’ Owen already knew, they had discussed it a little in the car when she came to recruit him for the return mission to Isla Nublar. ‘He was a nice man. He told me only a few months ago that he wanted to save the dinosaurs, to clear both of our names from the disasters that had been Jurassic Park and World. I believed him, but I was also misled.’

‘I don’t think it had anything to do with Lockwood, Claire. I think it was all that fucker who was with Wheatley — I really wish you let me break his arm.’

She saw his fists clench and shook her head; ‘Wouldn’t have been worth it’.  

‘Was breaking his nose worth it?’ He asked, a smile pulling at his lips as he watched a flush colour her cheeks.

‘Definitely.’ Owen whispered a quiet ‘good’ in return, his lips lowering to meet her cheek on reflex. It wasn’t until he made contact with her skin that he realised they didn’t do that anymore. Claire didn’t pull away. In fact, a breathless sound drifted past her lips, her eyes fluttering closed on contact. ‘I just, I hope Lockwood had nothing to do with this.’ Her eyes were on the baby again, the same full look in chartreuse he saw earlier. He couldn’t call her on it, wouldn’t, for fear that it would push her away. Owen saw then that it was going to be hard letting going of this baby when the time came.

‘It was a big house. I’m sure there were lots of things going on that he wasn’t aware of.’ He reassured before picking up a smaller size in the exact same onesie and lying it out across the girl in her arms. ‘I think this one will fit better.’ He saw her dazzled eyes, confusion mixing in those perfect depths. ‘I have a nephew too, you know.’ He shrugged, wandering off with the trolley as Claire continued her shop.

She wasn’t looking when he added a small pack of baby socks to the cart, little animal faces sitting on top of the knee. She would have rolled her eyes if she saw them, gaze softening as she realised everything they had just done … taking a baby … he wouldn’t have changed a single thing if given the opportunity.

[…]

Owen didn’t want to stop the car, Claire situated in the back with the baby in her brand new car seat. He wanted to drive until he physically couldn’t, but it was Maisie crying in the backseat that made him stop a few hours before the sun rose.

The motel was small, nondescript and unmemorable. It was suitable enough to stop. They needed to shower, sleep and eat something outside of the moving vehicle. The baby needed it too.

‘Do you think she’s okay?’ Claire asked, the baby stretched out on the centre of the bed, lying on the blanket they had stolen her in. She had her small arms curled up by her ears, fingers rolled into fists as her little body stretched, mouth opening wide before she closed it and resumed sleeping. Claire was exhausted, her whole body ready to give in and collapse. She couldn’t take her eyes off the girl. Couldn’t move to disturb her, only watch the baby closely as her chest rose and fell and her bowed legs twitched.

Owen hummed, towel shaking water from his hair as he sat on the edge of the small breakfast table. ‘She looks fine.’ He offered, looking up from the ground. ‘Go take a shower.’ They had a big thirty-six hours, Claire still wearing the same thing, dirt caked onto her jeans and her skin tacky with sweat. ‘I’ll watch her.’ He promised, shoo-ing her off.

He felt lost when the bathroom door shut behind Claire. A baby was sleeping in the middle of their hotel bed. It had been too long since he had seen a kid this small. He didn’t know what to do with her other than watch mildly until he found the energy to stand, drop the towel around his waist and pull on a new pair of underwear.

The pipes in the walls rattled when Claire turned the shower on, something about the wheeze and whistle disturbed the baby who started to cry. He looked at her, watching her small face screw up as her mouth rattled and her arms shook. Temporarily he forgot what to do. He could read her cries like a new parent could. He had no connection to her beyond allowing Claire to pluck her out of a laboratory crib purely because he would have done the same. Something in her cry broke through to him alongside the want to soothe her before Claire came barrelling out of the shower. He reached down, large hands sliding under her too small body. It came back to him, the first time he held his brother’s son, supporting the head in the curve of his hand as he brought the baby to his chest.

In the bathroom, Claire heard Maisie crying just as she began to lather her hair with motel grade shampoo. She hesitated, fingers caught in red strands as she strained her ears to listen into the other room. Momentarily, she wondered if it would be worth washing the product out of her hair and rushing in to rescue Owen. But, by the time the suds were gone from her strands, Maisie had stopped. She told herself she needed to breathe. In a matter of six hours, that baby had become her sole focus, Claire almost losing sight of herself and the importance of keeping her hair clean (on her own personal scale of needs). She built up a second shampoo lather, deciding that if there was silence than Owen and Maisie were secure in the company of the other while she basked in the warm water soothing the aches of her body.

With the dirt scrubbed from her skin thanks to a questionable bar of soap, Claire deemed herself acceptable enough to step out of the shower. She had the forethought to take her new clothing with her, changing quickly with anxiousness to return to the girl and man she had left alone.

When the bathroom door opened, steam rolling out with her, Claire was met with the sight of Owen stretched out in the middle of the hotel bed. He was lying on his back, one hand sitting on his chest, anchoring the small bundle that was Maisie, almost shrinking under his palm. Claire stopped in her tracks caught by the vision of them, his chest rising the baby with every deep breath he took.

‘You okay?’ She asked, creeping across the room and gently crawling onto the bed. She was careful not to disturb the baby who was sleeping again, lips pursed, her cheek heavy against his bare chest.

His hand readjusted its grip on Maisie’s back, Owen giving Claire a nod in answer to her question. Something was twisting in her gut, making her cheeks warm and her vision blur as she watched him hold the baby. Maybe it was a bad idea taking the girl. Her appearance in their lives was suddenly trying to convince Claire that they could have this life, that they should have had this life if she didn’t tell him to walk away.

‘I think she needs a bottle before she goes to sleep’ She suggested, lip between her teeth being worried with uncertainty as Claire questioned the basic knowledge she had.

Owen raised his arm, taking his hand to the back of her head as he patted her damp hair. ‘Claire,’ He hummed, waiting for her to respond. She nodded, finding his eyes in the waking light of their motel room. ‘Just get some sleep.’ Claire lowered her head to the pillow beside him, trying not to overthink the fact that they were sharing a bed again. Instead, she focused on Maisie, one of her hands joining his on her back.

There was no way she could sleep safely like that on Owen’s chest. He would have to move her before he fell asleep but Claire didn’t have the energy to raise her head again to tell him. She fell asleep with the feeling of his fingers in her hair, the warmth of a baby under her fingertips and the smell of Owen so close to her nose it was almost the sole thing that knocked her out.

[…]

She woke to the sound of quiet cries, the baby already ingraining herself into the back of Claire’s mind. Her eyes snapped open, searching the empty bed in front of her, her body lacking the warmth of her sleeping partner. Her heart started to hammer beneath her ribs as she slowly sat finding the room empty but the sound of the baby still ringing in her ears.

It hadn’t been a dream. Claire knew that much. Jurassic World. Lockwood Manor. Owen. Maisie. It was all real. She could still smell the baby in her nose and feel the press of his lips against her cheek. She could remember the burn of saltwater in her lungs and the dusty smell of the old gyrosphere.

Trying to catch her breath, Claire pulled herself out of the old bed, feet hesitating against the rough motel carpet as she followed the sounds of the baby she stole. Owen was sitting outside their motel room, propped up in a wooden rocker that was stationed between every two doors. He had Maisie tucked into his arm, the dark hair on her head appearing beyond the bend in his elbow as his other hand held a bottle.

‘Sorry.’ He apologised, head lifting from the infant to catch Claire closing their motel door behind her quietly. ‘I was trying to keep her quiet.’ Owen explained, wanting Claire to get more than a few hours of shut-eye before the baby started to grizzle. ‘She doesn’t like the bottle much.’ The look on his face was pained as he returned his eyes to the baby, rubbing the teat of her bottle against her bottom lip, trying to encourage her to take it. It was making the process difficult because she wouldn’t take it but there was nothing more that Owen could do. Claire was awake, he had already failed in that regard

‘Maybe she was exclusively breastfed?’ Claire shrugged her shoulders, a single finger stretching out to stroke the soft hair on Maisie’s scalp.

Owen hummed. ‘She doesn’t have a mother.’

‘I mean, sure, we found her alone, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a woman out there missing her child right now.’ He could only hope no one had noticed she was missing or at least had taken them some time.

‘She doesn’t have a mother.’ Owen repeated, his face drawn in contemplation as he lifted it to face her once again. Claire blinked at him, mouth open and puzzled. He rested the baby’s bottle on her chest, freeing his hand to pluck the folder he had tucked between his thigh and the arm of the chair out from its place. ‘They … ah, they were using her? She’s some kind of project.’ He told her, offering the folder in explanation.

Claire shook her head. She didn’t want to know. Her eyes darted from the folder to the baby. She reached for her, both arms extended, fingers itching. ‘Can I have her?’ She asked when he didn’t move, stepping in front of him and bending to collect the girl without even waiting for his nod and breathless, ‘of course’.    

Maisie cried in Claire’s arms, just as she had with Owen. She rocked her, swaying her hips and bouncing in her step as she accepted the warm bottle he held out for her. The baby begrudgingly allowed it this time, face turned towards Claire’s chest as she grunted against the plastic. Claire grinned at him, a little triumphant that she could get the baby to do what he couldn’t.

‘I don’t think we can take her back to Lockwood Manor. She isn’t safe there.’

‘What should we do?’ Owen watched her, fighting back the small smile that was trying to poke through. It was mid-morning, Claire standing in front of him barefoot in pyjamas rocking a baby like she was made to do it. ‘We can’t just leave her somewhere.’ She worried about the option of turning her little life into the police and asking them to deal with it. ‘She’s only going to end up back where she came from.’ That was if they were looking for her. There was a chance if no one stepped forward the baby would end up in the system and at two-months-old Claire was sure she could find herself a friendly home.

They were quiet, nothing but Maisie’s suckles in the air around them. Owen was the first to sigh, hand scrubbing over his face as he shielded his eyes. ‘I don’t know, Claire.’ He breathed, trying to think about it and the things he had seen. She didn’t want to know. Had shaken her head at the chance when he offered. And yet, it sat in his lap answers trying to reach for her.

‘Did they hurt her?’ She asked, voice low and scared, arms tightening their hold on the baby.

Owen moved his hand, green eyes meeting hers. ‘I don’t know. There’s a flash drive I can’t look at just yet.’ From what he had read they mostly deprived her of contact. Left her to lie on her own and self-soothe since she was born.

‘We can’t send her back.’ She told him, urgently like he didn’t already think the place was a bad idea. ‘No wonder she’s so small.’ He answered with something from Maisie’s file a dislike in bottles. ‘They were treating her like an animal, Owen.’ Tears were burning in her eyes as he rattled off this and that from her file. ‘Is there something wrong with her? Is she sick? Contagious?’ Her lip curled, almost disgusted but her grip on the baby didn’t weaken. She was holding on tight with no intention to let go.

‘Not from what I read. Maisie would have been better secluded if she was contagious.’ A room in the middle of an empty hallway three floors below ground was pretty secluded if he had to think of a definition. ‘We need to take …’ he stopped, watching a hot tear slip down Claire’s cheek. She was shaking her head, backing away with two steps. ‘Claire, what?’ He softened, catching her guard up, eyes wide and scared. ‘Hey, calm down.’ He stood, hands up by his chest approaching her like a frightened animal.

She shook her head, taking her eyes off him to watch the baby in her arms. Owen wasn’t the threat. He wouldn’t hurt her. She would have time to run if she needed it. ‘Can’t we keep her?’ She didn’t look at him, tears rolling down her cheeks and landing in dark spots on the baby’s onesie. ‘If she has nowhere to go? Nowhere safe … can’t we try to do something right by her? I can do a better by her. Better than what she had.’

Owen shook his head. ‘We don’t know the first thing about raising a kid. We ain’t even together.’ He didn’t have a single worry that she wouldn’t be a good mom, because he knew she would outshine so many others. Owen just knew she couldn’t do this alone, would need support and strength. They weren’t a couple anymore. What would happen if they imploded again?

‘But we can try! We got through the night. She’s eating now.’ She gestured, raising the baby in her arms, eyes closed, mouth still moving around the teat of the bottle. ‘Please, Owen, I won’t be able to forgive myself if something happens to her.’ Her grip tightened, finger pushing into the blanket by the baby’s small thigh. ‘I can’t willingly let her go back to being a guinea pig.’ She hissed, making Owen flinch.

‘I wasn’t suggesting that.’ He was just trying to think logically.

Determination burned in her eyes, contrasting the tears on her cheeks. ‘Can you take us to Karen’s?’ That was it. She didn’t have the money or the confidence to put herself and the baby on a plane. Karen and her boys were still living in Madison, Wisconsin and where that was an easy forty hour drive from California, Owen and Claire were already sitting on the Nevada state line. It was still a big drive, but they had already started. Owen was the one who suggested they needed to lay low. A road trip with nothing but cash and a car they traded would make them virtually untraceable.

He nodded, hesitantly. It was a big task to get them that far. He could do it, but it would take them time. ‘Yeah.’ He cleared his throat, trying for a stronger sound. ‘Yeah, I can do that.’

[hopestallion]

Loser prt.1

Disclaimer: I neither own Sense8 nor do i own Bangtan. I just own this idea and the Reader(insert)

You lose what matters to you the most. Your cluster has to save your life and hold the shards of your heart.

The poll on my twitter decided for a dark chapter, Jimin and Hoseok centered. Though i don't like it much and i had to write it in a rush. I am going to have it have another part so it can make more sense.

Always welcoming you guys feedback.

P.S: this was not beta-ed

Laughter carried through the house, accompanied by music. Sunlight filtering through curtains, playing over hardwood floor. Occasionally interrupted by a leg or arm, that crossed paths with the sunbeam. “You seem much happier, than before boo.” She was seated across from you. Holding a glass of brownish liquor.

You giggled, as the song came to an end. “Do you ever miss your home, mémère?” you asked, purposefully using one of the French terms for grandmother. She wasn’t really your grandmother, neither was she French. But she had raised you in your parent’s stead. Even though you didn’t know how she came to be with your family. And everyone seemed to avoid the question. You could guess.

“She’s from New Orleans… she’s quite a distance from home” While your mémère took her time to answer your question, bringing the glass of ‘probably Jack Daniel’s’ to her lips. Your gaze traveled only a little distance from her face. Right behind her stood one of the possibly most beautiful men, you’d ever seen. If it had happened for the first time ever, you would have been shocked. By now you were used to it.

“I don’t even know what it looks like anymore. It’s been truly too long” she said, and you took note of the change in accent. Sometimes your mémère would fall back into her New Orleans accent, infused with heavy French terms. Other times she’d be reminded, that she no longer is from there. And that’s when she’d come back to her Icelandic acquired accent. You found it incredibly sad, especially when you loved her original accent so much.

“She’s a good liar…” he leaned forward, crossing his arms over the back of the sofa. You pulled your legs up to your chest in response. Of course, he’d see through her. Often, he’d say. “Lying is what I do best”, “Lying is my forte” you wondered if he wasn’t the most honest of you all, after all. “I miss home sometimes…” you didn’t know why you said it. Usually trying your best to avoid that topic.

“You know you can’t think like that, little wolf.” Another endearment, that she brought with her from her home. Growing up in a town, that had thick roots for Voodoo. It was no surprise, that she sometimes reverted to those old myths. You still remembered every single one of them. Most nights, they were the only thing, that kept you going. Even now, you held tight to her myths and stories. The magic, you knew couldn’t exist in a world like yours. But then you’d look at what had happened in less than a year. And you wonder how true it is.

Your mémère got up from her seat and put the now empty glass down. Why don’t you pick another song, to twirl your skirts to. And I’ll prepare dinner? Any wishes?” you shook your head in response. “I think I might sit outside for a while? The weather seems nicer than most days.” After all it was spring. The season, where most people would find joy. Iceland however somehow managed to depress people. Maybe it was the short amount of night, or the vast amount of sun for the short span of time. You never truly understood why.

“Don’t you dare jumpin’ outta the balcony” she yelled over her shoulder, as she already made her way to the kitchen. You chuckled to yourself and pushed the balcony doors wide open. A gust of wind passing you. And ruffling the curtains to either side of you. Your dress flaring up with the wind. “I don’t mind that view” his cheeky words caught you by surprise. Reprimanding him would have had a hold, if he hadn’t already seen you naked at this point.

Outside, you laid down on one of the tanning chairs. Pulling out your phone from the pocket in your dress. You never understood why most dresses didn’t have pockets. Did people really think, women didn’t need to store shit, while on the go? To your luck your mémère had sewn you pockets into almost every article of clothing. Only refraining from doing so to your panties. Your bras did have tiny pockets. She had winked at you, calling it the safest place to hide money. She wasn’t that far off.

Pulling up your phone and putting it to your ear. You replied to him. “Not like you haven’t seen me naked, already” his cheeks colored in a rosy hue. “Can’t pull up one on you, can I? he replied and sat down across from you. You didn’t have to wonder where he was or what he was doing. You blinked once, standing in the middle of a meeting room. “How are you talking to me, without looking like a lunatic?” you asked curious. None of you had had figured out yet, how to keep the connections separate. Of course, he would be the one to figure it out.

“I don’t know, you’re the only one it worked with so far.” He said and leaned forward, replying to one of the questions directed to him. “How long can you keep it up?” mischief was playing in your tone. The only reaction he showed in his physical body, was a raise of his eyebrow. The manager kept on explaining the new concept of his movie. While you decided to test out his boundaries. “Let’s hope, you’re not too vocal, right Jimin?”

You sat down on his lap, spread legged. Hands reaching out to rip apart the nice pressed dress shirt, he was wearing. Sure enough, none of that really happened, but it was hard to decipher between each. Especially when you could feel both as a sensate. “What are you doing?” he hissed, as his hands grabbed for your hips. Your response easy enough, a jut of your hips. He gritted is teeth, when you let your hands wander down his chest. Nails scratching past nipples, that were slowly hardening underneath your fingers. Lips pressing to his ear. “I’m pretty sure you’re familiar with this procedure.”

Jimin was about to warn you, to not go too far. Even though, he was gripping your hips harder. When you suddenly looked up in shock. “What’s going on?” he could hear the panic in your voice, instantly killing any upcoming arousal. “(Y/N)?” he asked, but you were too occupied, with whatever was happening on your side. “Mémère, what’s going on?” you asked, as she pulled you into the house and towards the bedroom. Jimin stumbling behind her, as her hand was curled around your wrist. You were trading places inconsequentially. Your perception mixing and muddling with one another.

“Your father knew something was going to happen, eventually. We didn’t know how soon or late. We of course hoped for later” she said and turned to the wall. There was a huge portrait, you’d always found tacky. It was a family picture, your father, your brothers, your mother, mémère and you. But almost no one was left. “I still don’t understand” you said. She pulled down the picture, showing a panel in the wall. “What the hell?” she pushed in a combination of numbers. The wall sliding to the side. Then she reached for the night stand. Knelt and pulled out the drawer. Reaching into the empty nightstand.

Once back on her feet, you saw the dark form of the gun on her hand. She pulled out the magazine and checked for the bullets, then clicked it back in. “We taught you how to use it. Now you will have to, little wolf” your face paling. “Mémère what’s going on?” you needed answers. Especially with a hidden way out of the house, a loaded gun and not much time. You hadn’t even noticed how things had changed. When things had changed. “They know what you are, once they find you. You will be dead, little wolf.” She said and pulled a duffle from beneath her bed. “We were always prepared for this. Your papa and I” she said. Pressing the handles of the duffle bag into your hand.

Her hands came up to cup your face. Her lips pressing against your forehead. A gesture you had come to see as a sign of love. A light in dark nights, filled with nightmares. A sign of unconditional love, when you’d been the only survivor of the fire. A sign of solidarity, when your father had turned his back on you. “It sounds like you’re not coming with me, mémère….” She smiled at you, a smile you knew was meant to calm you. “She knows she can’t. She’s gonna distract them, so you can run for it” Jimin stood to your right again. “You can’t be serious!” you didn’t care you’d look like a lunatic. You wouldn’t leave her behind.

“It’s one of your cluster, right?” she smiled at you even softer, than before. “If you are birthed already, you will be fine. I know that” she gently turned you around and pushed you to the exit. “I can’t see you, because all I am connected to is her. But you probably can hear me. Protect her. Protect one another” You were about to protest, when gunshots rang through the apartment and the door that had been opened in the wall, slid close. Your hands ready to drop the gun and the duffle, to bang against the wall. Abandoning your family, was not an option. The first time you had not been given a choice, but this time? Like hell would you, leave her behind.

Before you could drop anything though, two hands held each of yours. “Her sacrifice will be in vain, if they get to you too.” Your eyes traveled up the pale hands. Meeting with dark brown eyes, framed by black hair. It was freshly washed and hang in wet strands down his face. “He’s right. If they get to you, not only will her sacrifice be meaningless. But they’ll also get to the rest of us.” Teeth buried in your lower lip you nodded. Would never be able to forgive yourself, if they got to anyone from your cluster, because of you.

“Let’s get you out of here first. “you stood behind Hoseok’s computer chair, watching as his fingers flew over the keyboard. “Gotta say your old man, he’s got some style” he said as he typed in more code. “You mean paranoid…” you crossed your arms in front of your chest. There weren’t many good words between him and you. After all you hadn’t seen him in years. “I got through. You still have your phone, right?” you nodded your head. “I hacked into it, so I can pin your location.” He explained. Jimin stood to his other side and watched carefully, as the red pin you were stood still. “You walk ahead, till I tell you otherwise” Hoseok directed, watching as the pin that was you walked ahead.

You used the flashlight of your phone to shine on the ground and walk ahead. The duffle slung across your shoulder you wished you’d put on pants. It would have been easier to carry the gun that way. Even though it wasn’t very wise, to put guns into the back of your pants. “Stop now.” Hoseok’s voice came from your right. Even though he wasn’t physically there, you knew he saw what you saw. As you saw what he saw. “To the right” you mumbled to yourself and touched the walls. Feeling the curve of the corner you followed it and started walking again.

“Just a little further, then left” he instructed, and you followed once more. “At the end of this hallway, is a seeming dead end.” He said, and you nodded. “I’m going to hack into the surveillance camera and see if the coast is clear. But it should be. Whatever you do, don’t go out before I tell you to.” Not like you even knew how to get through the wall. You were pretty sure, it was either by touch or some passcode again.

The sudden eruption of voices and footsteps was what had you press against the wall behind you. You still had to wait for Hoseok’s confirmation of a clear coast. When your hand caught a lose stone and pressed it inside. It was shear panic, what had caused the accident. The wall behind you sliding to the side and you tumbling out onto the sand. The wall slid close before you, cutting of screams and yells. “What the fuck! (Y/N)” Hoseok cursed, but you didn’t have much time to give him any thought. Right in front of you were three men in black suits. Drawn guns directed at your face. While your own, laid uselessly a few meters away from yourself. Your duffle to your right, where you couldn’t reach it easily either.

“Fuck, fuck, fuck!” Hoseok cursed, his hands slamming down on the table. “What do we do now?!” him and Jimin looked at one another helplessly. “I just need a bit…” you said. Their attention snapping back to you. “What do you mean?” the three of you standing where the gun laid. Looking down on you, at gun point. “If I could get to the gun, I could take them.” You replied. “But it’s too far for me to reach…” Jimin lifted his hand to his chin and looked from you to the men in the suits. He walked around them and nodded to himself. “You just need a little distraction, right?”

“We have seven minutes if anything. When I said your old man had some style, I meant the way the house was designed. Once it was locked as a break in, the house would give you a limited time frame. If the exit from the hidden wall is activated. It locks down everyone inside” the hacker explained. His hand running through his still damp hair. “And activates a timer…” Jimin continued his sentence. “Blowing up everyone and the house in pieces. So, there would be no saying if anyone survived or not” you could not leave your mémère in a house, that was going to self-implode. “I have to go back.”

“Seven minutes, she gave you to survive this and help us stay alive. If you go back, you get caught or die? It would make her last minutes meaningless” Jimin knew your pain, he could feel it. It was different than wishing condolences. Or telling someone you knew how you felt. You felt it, sensates knew, because it was their pain too. “What now? I won’t make it to the gun, without decorating the beach with my brain.” The only way for you to cope with whatever was going on, was to hold onto the here and now. Sure, enough the happenings would come after you. One way or another.

“Can I?” Jimin asked. You nodded and watched as he took your place on the ground. Naturally, all of that only happening in your head. While for the men nothing changed and it all looked like seconds passing. You watched as Jimin schooled his features and got into his role. “Whatever he’s paying you. I can pay you thrice the amount….” He said and sat a little up. The men didn’t seem much impressed with his words. Even though some of them hesitated. “After all you’re married…” he looked at the one who was pointing the gun clear at his face. He didn’t wear a ring, but he had a tan line. Speaking volumes about his private life. “You wouldn’t want to be caught for murdering me, right? Because there will be people looking for me.” Jimin didn’t move much, but his face held all the emotion it needed. The knowledge of someone, knowing what he was doing.

“My father built a safe build into the house, it’ll blow up everything and everyone inside. You think he cares who he kills? He doesn’t. And one day? He might kill me, but he also might come for those who killed me. If he can dispose of his own daughter just like that, don’t you think he’s gonna slaughter all you hold dear? Everything, because you got hired to shoot someone. Ain’t worth it if you ask me.” It was a split second of hesitance. You didn’t need more.

Grabbing the gun and uncocking it. Everything moved faster than you expected it to. After all people said, the moment of death was the slowest. Instead you held the man around the neck. Dodging the bullet of his two other goons with his body. You didn’t care for the blood splatters, as you pulled the trigger, two-gun shots for the right one. Dropping him dead like a fly. Then three for the other. The only reason the beach had been not a bad choice for an exit. Even though there was almost to none hiding point for you, there was also none for your enemy.

“You have only four minutes left to leave” Hoseok reminded you. “I know.” You checked them for ammunition and took two of their guns. Picked up your duffle bag and started the short track towards the parking lots around the house. You opened the car door of the black vehicle that stood in the parking lot. Wondering why people always chose cars like that to blend in. When cars like that screamed, “weird”. You pulled the trigger twice more. Thankfully only one driver in the car and no one else. It could have been different. The odds for once in your favor.

You slipped into the car and closed the door behind you. Before scooting across the passenger’s seat, unbuckling the dead body and pushing him out the open driver’s door. Uncaring for the blood on the steering wheel, or the one smeared on the side of the window. You closed the door and buckled in. Until you realized you didn’t know how to drive a car. In all the years your father had prepared you for almost everything. He’d never prepared you for a fucking car. Not that you could blame him, when you remembered the flames and the stench of burning leather.

“I don’t know how to drive!” you said and looked around yourself. “Well guess who can?” finding yourself on the passenger’s seat again, as Taehyung turned the key in the ignition. “Tae?” you blinked owlishly at the other. “I was preparing for an upcoming race.” He explained, and you nodded your head. As he swiftly maneuvered the car through the streets. “Where to now?” he asked and looked around the dashboard. His slanted eyes narrowing on the gps built in. “Can you hack into it?” he asked. Making you realize that Hoseok and Jimin were both in the backseat of the car by now. “Can I hack into it? I’m an all access kind of guy” he replied and let his fingers once again, magically move across his keyboard.

“Jiminie and I, we prepared for something like this. We got in touch with Namjoon and the others. For the soul reason, that if something might happen. We’d have a backup plan.” He explained and caused the GPS to turn on. A location loading on the screen and directing Taehyung through the streets. “We purchased a house in Italy. It’s under neither of our names, so no one would come looking for it.” He explained. “How am I going to travel to Italy. I am pretty sure they’re waiting for me at the airport. If it’s BPO who’s doing all this…” your mémère made it sound like it wasn’t the typical enemy your father, had made during his dark days. Or well darker than now anyway. You didn’t turn around, even though the sound of the explosion traveled a mile behind you. You didn’t want to acknowledge it yet.

“Did you check the content of the duffle bag?” Hoseok asked, making you unzip it and looking through. “There is a lot of cash. A change of clothes… Another round of ammunition. And….” You pulled out an envelope with papers, a passport and a new ID out. “She fucking knew…” you bit down on your lip, to not let the feelings envelope you just yet. Once you were out of the situation yes. But not right now, when anything could happen.

Hoseok changed seats with you, looking at the papers with your eyes. He took note of the names, the numbers and dates. To make sure he’d clear the right passport. “You should be able to get through customs like that. Get rid of the guns while you’re at it. Can’t travel with those and will draw suspicion no matter what.” You agreed and made Taehyung stop the car at the side road. Looking to either of your side and having made sure there was no camera surveillance, you dropped them to the side of the road. Quickly getting back in the car and letting Taehyung take control of the car again.

Once you arrived at the airport, Taehyung reluctantly said his goodbyes. As he had a race to go to and some money for his family to ear. “I’ll be okay, I am pretty sure either of you have some more pressing matters to attend to. “Nah, I’ll make sure you’re on the plane… and later out of customs” Hoseok let his hand fall on your shoulder squeezing it a little. “You’ll get through this. We will…” he said and sent you a soft smile, before vanishing to his room in Moscow. Where he was currently residing.

“I’ll stay with you, I have a day off and nothing much to do anyway.” Jimin said and took hold of your hand. Seeing as you’d changed in the airport bathroom and had scrubbed all the blood away, from the most important places. You’d put on an oversized sweater and some jeans. The sweater covering your hands and therefore, only you could see your held hand “That’s not true, you were in the middle of a meeting…” you said and walked away from check-in, towards the security check. “It was just my manager talking me into another movie. Nothing that can’t be fixed with flowers and a few text messages” he said, and you smiled. It was sweet of him to want to be there for you.

Through the last check in and boarding, you kept it together. Holding yourself as well together as possible. Until you were lead to a first-class seat, that was built as a cube. You hadn’t flown with the newly built planes yet and never would have first class anyway. But guessed it was Hoseok, granting you a few hours of peace. Once seated and the plane took off. You couldn’t help the tears spilling over your lower lashes. “I just abandoned her” he mumbled to yourself, as the tears kept falling. Changing the baby blue color of your sweater into a greyish darker blue. “She did what she could to save you.” Jimin whispered and pulled you into his lap and chest.

No one would understand the connection you had to the other seven people. That you could feel them hold you and touch you. While for anyone else, you were just curled in on yourself. But here you were, seated in Seokjin’s chair in his office. While he held your sobbing face against his neck. Standing in Namjoon’s hold, as he comfortingly brushed across your back. Your head in Jeongguk’s lap, who sang softly over your sobs. Taehyung holding your hand tightly over the gear shift, trying to press all his comfort into the curl of his fingers. Laid on Hoseok’s bed, his body curled around yours. Yoongi’s headphone put over your ears, while he held your body in a back hug, on top of his bed. Or Jimin seated in your first-class seat, holding you in his lap, while he brushed your hair with his fingers. “I lost her…” you mumbled through the thick of your tears, as you sobbed silently.

The stewardess had been instructed to leave you be, by her higher-ups. Though you didn’t know, Hoseok had put that request into your ticket, when he’d booked it for you. A few hours later, had a shy Stewardess, shake your shoulder. Helping you adjust and out of your seat. So, you could leave the plane with everyone else. You had made it so far, safe and sound onto Italian ground.

Taehyung appeared on your side again. “Hobi-hyung told me you need a driver” he smiled cheekily at you. Not commenting on how red and puffy your eyes were. Instead he held your hand and lead you outside of the airport. A car pulling up and a young woman getting out. Holding a clip board and a pen for you to sign. “Miss (L/N).” you nodded your head and showed her your passport, for the formalities, before you signed for the car. “That’s some expensive taste you have, Mr. Jung” you looked over to Hoseok who just shrugged his shoulders. “Wasn’t my pick” Jimin leaned over your shoulder, his chin in the juncture between shoulder and neck. “It was mine” he said and couldn’t help himself but press a kiss to your neck, while he was at it.

“It’s a three-hour ride, so I hope you’re going to be fine.” Taehyung explained and once again took the seat. At least in your mind’s eye. For everyone else, it looked like you got seated behind the wheel. The GPS magically loaded again, or more likely Hoseok hacked into the car’s system. The car rumbled to life, while at the same time a tune started to fill the car. A song none of them really knew. In a language neither of them was supposed to know. Taehyung pressed the button to pull down the roof of the car. While the tune started to gain on volume. Only in each of your heads, but it was a beautiful tune, a tune asking for a road trip.

Jeongguk came to sit behind you in the car. “We like to party!” he started to sing loudly. Even though he could be in key, he decided to be out of key. “Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah” you continued the lyrics. Which you couldn’t know, but Jeongguk did and so all of you did as well. “Aye man you better slow it down” Taeyhung jumped in. The car filling with every member of your cluster, as all of them sang along to the song, only one of you could hear. You couldn’t help but to smile, as you heard some of them off key, some of them on point. Each of you stumble over the lyrics, as Jeongguk couldn’t memorize the rap parts. The song carrying into the later afternoon, as the car vanished behind corner after corner. Driving along the coast of Italy, a lone woman singing loudly to no music at all.

At least to the naked eye.

But who really cared for the naked eye?

If you wanna vote for the upcoming chapter, chat or want me to show progress you can head over to my twitter. I alternate between @hopestallion which is my side twitter and was initially made for my writing stuff and AU's while @_l110492_ is my main and i did the poll there. :D you are welcome to talk and chat over there too ^^

xxx Lana

P.s: PLEASE CHECK OUT SENSE8 ON NETFLIX; I SWEAR YOU WON'T BE DISAPPOINTED!!

[patriotsnet]

How Can Republicans Live With Themselves

New Post has been published on https://www.patriotsnet.com/how-can-republicans-live-with-themselves/

How Can Republicans Live With Themselves

Trump Is Still A Force In The Party

After the 2012 elections, prominent Republicans sharply criticized Mitt Romney and his campaign. Democrats did the same to Hillary Clinton after 2016 and sometimes included former President Barack Obama in their criticisms, too. For a political party to change direction, it nearly always has to distance itself from past leaders. 

Or put another way: For there to be an autopsy, there has to be a dead body.

Trump Slams ‘wayward’ Republicans For Capitol Riot Vote

US Capitol riots

Former US president Donald Trump blasted “wayward Republicans” after lawmakers made a rare bipartisan push to investigate the Capitol riot.

With the support of 35 Republicans, the Democratic-controlled House of Representatives voted 252-175 to look into the events of 6 January.

Party leaders had urged Republicans to oppose the bill, with Mr Trump labelling it a “Democrat trap”.

The bill appears to lack the Republican support it needs to pass in the Senate.

It seeks to create an independent inquiry modelled on the commission that investigated the 9/11 attacks on New York and Washington.

The legislation establishes a 10-member body, evenly split between the two main parties, that would make recommendations by the end of the year on how to prevent any repeat of the Capitol invasion.

Trump supporters stormed Congress on 6 January in a failed bid to thwart certification of President Joe Biden’s victory in November’s election.

Wednesday’s vote was seen as a loyalty test to the former president for members of his party.

All 10 of the House Republicans who voted to impeach Trump in the days after the Capitol riot for incitement of insurrection were among the 35 who voted for the commission.

In a statement after the vote, Mr Trump hit out at the “wayward” Republican group, saying, “they just can’t help themselves”.

“Sometimes there are consequences to being ineffective and weak,” Mr Trump added.

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But Trumps continued popularity among key GOP constituencies prevents Republican insiders from undertaking a formal, public discussion about his political shortcomings and how the party should move on from him. Everyone in the GOP knows that irritating Trump could result in the former president attacking them, which would make them vulnerable to a primary challenge, with conservative activists likely backing their opponent. So there will be no autopsy of the post-Trump Republican Party, akin to the Republican National Committees report in 2013 following Romneys defeat, at least not in public. 

There Arent Real Forces Within The Gop Leading Change

There is some appetite for change within the GOP. In those 2024 polls, at least a third of Republicans either were supporting a GOP presidential candidate other than Trump or were undecided. 

In YouGov Blues polling, only about 40 percent of Republicans identified themselves as Trump Republicans. A recent survey from Fabrizio, Lee and Associates, a GOP-leaning firm that worked on Trumps presidential campaigns, found that about 40 percent of Republican voters didnt want Trump to continue to be a leader in the party. Those numbers dont necessarily mean that those voters want the GOP to change drastically. But there is a substantial number of Trump-skeptical/ready-to-move-on-from-Trump Republican voters. But that sentiment isnt really showing up in the Republican Partys actions during the last three months basically everything GOP officials in states and in Washington are doing lines up with the Trumpian approach. So what gives? 

related:Why The Recent Violence Against Asian Americans May Solidify Their Support Of Democrats Read more. »

It is hard to see Republicans changing course, even if a meaningful minority of voters in the party wants changes, without some elite institutions and powerful people in the party pushing a new vision. And its hard to see real anti-Trumpism forces emerging in the GOP right now. 

Democrats Return The Favor: Republicans Uninformed Or Self

The 429 Democratic voters in our sample returned the favor and raised many of the same themes. Democrats inferred that Republicans must be VERY ill-informed, or that Fox news told me to vote for Republicans.  Or that Republicans are uneducated and misguided people guided by what the media is feeding them.

Many also attributed votes to individual self-interest whereas GOP voters feel Democrats want free stuff, many Democrats believe Republicans think that I got mine and dont want the libs to take it away, or that some day I will be rich and then I can get the benefits that rich people get now.

Many used the question to express their anger and outrage at the other side.  Rather than really try to take the position of their opponents, they said things like, I like a dictatorial system of Government, Im a racist, I hate non-whites. 

Opinion:how Can Republicans Defend Trump Because Of The Clintons

Of all the desperate defenses that Republicans were forced to try as the impeachment hearings wore on, the strangest was that President Trump was just doing his job fighting corruption in Ukraine. Even his supporters have to concede that Trumps interest in corruption began and ended with one Ukrainian company.

After all, if Trump cared about family members using their connections to the presidency for personal enrichment, hed have been investigating son-in-law Jared Kushners family for wooing Chinese investors by playing up its familial ties to the Oval Office, or investigating his own administration for attempting to divert a major global summit to one of his properties. No one can reasonably believe the president cares about corruption, unless fighting it might help him win elections.

The latest updates in the Trump impeachment hearings

Unfortunately, Democratic outrage against political corruption, pretextual investigations and the use of vested powers to help your party win elections sounds a little hollow. For three years, impeachment, for many Democrats, has been an effect searching for a cause. Ukraine may have fit the bill perfectly, but anything else would have done just as well.

Read more:

Conservative Intellectuals Were Blind To The Truth About The Gop Hence Trump

The available evidence compiled by historians and political scientists suggests that 1964 really was a pivotal political moment, in exactly the way Roy describes.

Yet Republican intellectuals have long denied this, fabricating a revisionist history in which Republicans were and always have been the party of civil rights. In 2012, ran a lengthy cover story arguing that the standard history recounted by Roy was popular but indefensible.

This revisionism, according to Roy, points to a much bigger conservative delusion: They cannot admit that their partys voters are motivated far more by white identity politics than by conservative ideals.

Conservative intellectuals, and conservative politicians, have been in kind of a bubble, Roy says. Weve had this view that the voters were with us on conservatism philosophical, economic conservatism. In reality, the gravitational center of the Republican Party is white nationalism.

Conservative intellectuals, for the most part, are horrified by racism. When they talk about believing in individual rights and equality, they really mean it. Because the Republican Party is the vehicle through which their ideas can be implemented, they need to believe that the party isnt racist.

Its the power of wishful thinking. None of us want to accept that opposition to civil rights is the legacy that weve inherited, Roy says.

Beneath The Hood Of Trump’s Support Base

Trump’s victory in 2016 came on the back of a surge in voter turnout among white Americans without a college degree, a group he won by better than a 2-1 margin over Democrat Hillary Clinton. Trump won 6.5 million more voters over the age of 45, despite losing the national popular vote by almost three million.

But that “demographic blowback” which saw some older Americans cast a vote for the first time since Ronald Reagan was on the ballot, was never a long-term strategy they are literally dying off.

But they aren’t dead yet, and neither is Trump’s support base.

AP: Julio Cortez

A found 89 per cent of voters without a college degree and 74 per cent of Republicans want Trump to stay active in politics in some way. Almost half of Republicans want Trump to remain head of their party, while 11 per cent want him to break away and start his own party. It’s that final figure that probably worries Republicans more than any other.

Trump has already flirted with the idea of starting his own “Patriot Party” to rival both Republicans and Democrats, and provide a vehicle for a potential third presidential campaign in 2024.

The only time a former president tried to return to office under the banner of a new party, Theodore Roosevelt in 1912, he consigned his former Republican Party to a distant third place.

‘this Is Not A Political Campaign This Is Deadly Serious’: Cheney Speaks After Jan 6 Committee

Those Republicans were not in the room. House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., and his fellow GOP leaders decided not to appoint members to the select committee investigating the riot. They will neither defend nor condemn the Capitol riot in the historical annals of the Congressional Record.

They have chosen official silence refusing to defend the indefensible while signaling tacit and docile support for former President Donald Trump and the rioters who stormed the Capitol in his name.

Former Rep. David Jolly, who left the GOP in 2018, said the Republican leadership is trying to divert public attention away from the hearings.

“The committee is set up to get to the truth about Jan. 6,” Jolly said. “Republican opposition to its work is clearly an effort to obstruct that truth from reaching voters.”

Still, by threatening to punish fellow Republicans Liz Cheney of Wyoming and Kinzinger, McCarthy has made clear to Americans that in his House Republican Conference, it is better to back a riot than to buck Trump.

Choosing not to send Republican allies to sit on the committee McCarthy opted to abstain after Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., rejected two of his picks because they have spread lies about the riot may be an act of political cowardice. But it is certainly a political miscalculation.

We may have our deep differences on other policy issues,” Kinzinger said. “But we are all Americans today.

The Social Media Effect

Social media platforms provide us a personalized way to receive news and commentary from anyone and everyone with whom we are connected. In theory, this could mean that users see a cross section of their community’s political views, representing the full range of perspectives within their network. Unfortunately, our study’s findings paint a less encouraging picture. First, only 26% of American report sharing social media posts about politics. Second, these Americans have higher Perception Gaps than the national average. While those who do not post on social media have an average Perception Gap of 18, those who do post on social media have an average Perception Gap of 29. The political content we see on social media is therefore disproportionately from people with a more distorted understanding of the other side, further adding to the problem.

The Partys Core Activists Dont Want To Shift Gears

This is the simplest and most obvious explanation: The GOP isnt changing directions because the people driving the car dont want to. 

When we think of Republicans, we tend to think of either rank-and-file GOP voters or the partys highest-profile elected officials, particularly its leaders in Congress. But in many ways, the partys direction is driven by a group between those two: conservative organizations like Club for Growth and the Heritage Foundation, GOP officials at the local and state level and right-wing media outlets. That segment of the party has been especially resistant to the GOP abandoning its current mix of tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations, opposition to expansions of programs that benefit the poor and an identity politics that centers white Americans and conservative Christians.

You could see the power and preferences of this group in the response to the Capitol insurrection.

In the days immediately following Jan. 6, many GOP elected officials, most notably McConnell, signaled that the party should make a permanent break from Trump. an increased number of rank-and-file GOP voters were dissatisfied with the outgoing president. But by the time the Senate held its trial over Trumps actions a month later, it was clear that the party was basically back in line with Trump. 

related:Why Being Anti-Media Is Now Part Of The GOP Identity Read more. »

Sen Mazie Hirono Wonders How Some Republicans Live With Themselves

Even after being elected to the Senate in 2012, the Hawaii Democrat Mazie Hirono was, by her own choosing, a politician little known outside her home state. Then, around 2016 and the election of a particularly divisive president, Hirono, who was born in Japan and is the Senates only immigrant, decided that staying under the radar was unsustainable. She frequently made herself available to the national media. She publicly said President Trump was a misogynist and a liar and called for his resignation . She unabashedly punctuated her comments with salty language. And it wasnt just her unexpected transition that raised her profile: Senator Hironos forceful questioning during the Kavanaugh and Barrett Supreme Court confirmation hearings, as well as, more recently, calling on President Biden to nominate more diverse people for senior positions in his administration, have also been central to her earning national stature. Its not the easiest thing for political people to speak candidly with the national media, says Senator Hirono, who is 73 and whose memoir, Heart of Fire, will be published on April 20. Im not doing it for effect. I dont go out there and spew things. Ive thought things through.

Garland said that to you about the Garza case? No, I said that to Garland. He just kind of looked at me like, Yeah. I knew that he was astounded.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity from two conversations.

Republicans Are Trying To Rebrand Themselves As Working Class Heroes

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About a week after he was busted for taking a trip to Cancun amid a historic power crisis in his home state, Ted Cruz made a bold declaration: The Republican Party is not the party of the country clubs, he . Its the party of hardworking, blue-collar men and women. The GOP, he claimed at the yearly jamboree of right-wing nutjobs last week, was not a party for the mostly rich, mostly white men who represent it in Washington. On the contrary, he the Conservative Political Action Conference, where the cost of admission ranged from the mid-hundreds of dollars to , Republicans are the party of steel workers and construction workers and taxi drivers and cops and firefighters and waitresses.

These deplorables, the Texas Senator told big ticket CPAC attendees in February, are here to stay.

This characterization, of course, is ridiculous on its face; how can you claim your party is not the party of country clubs when its deified leader, Donald Trump, literally in a private club he owns. But its an aggressive branding exercise that Republicans have engaged in throughout the Trump years, and that they appear to be ramping up since he was defeated by Joe Biden in November, when the insurrectionist Senator Josh Hawley wrote that we are a working class party now.

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Making The Audience Laugh And Cry

It has become a cliché to declare that Republicans and Democrats live in two different worlds these days, but it turns out there is some truth to the observation.

New research on political behavior finds that most Democratic and Republican voters live in partisan bubbles, with little daily exposure to those who belong to the other party. For instance the typical Democrat has almost zero interactions with Republicans in their neighborhood, according to an by Harvard doctoral student Jacob R. Brown and government Professor Ryan D. Enos published March 8 in the journal Nature Human Behaviour.

Theres a lot of evidence that any separation between groups has a lot of negative consequences. We see this in race; we see this in religion; we see this in all kinds of things, said Enos. And increasingly, we see this in partisanship in the United States.

Using geolocation data and the exact addresses of all 180 million registered voters in the U.S. as of June 2018, the two were able to precisely map, for the first time, where Democrats and Republicans live in relation to each other in every town, city, and state in the U.S. Then, rather than rely on the usual precinct or data aggregations, they used weighted measures and recorded the distance between voters to show how people are divided by geography and partisanship across the country.

The measurement of partisan sorting for 180 million voters,

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It certainly might.

And I wouldnt necessarily buy anybody who was selling that. But there are without question people in the administration who fit that criteriapeople who I know for a fact are just deeply disturbred by the president and his behavior, and some of his demagoguery, but feel as though walking away as a sign of protest would be counterproductive. Because the president needs people around him who are stable influences to help steer the ship. And if they were to walk away, maybe the ship sinks.

Theres a bit of a scarlet letter that almost everyone in the Republican party is going to wear.

The president is not oblivious to the fact that this administration is staffed with an awful lot of people who said some really nasty things about him during the campaign. Its not lost on Trump that he has a lot of staff members who were not fans of him once and probably not fans of him today. Look, if Trump was only to staff his White House with people who had never said a negative thing about him, he would be really hard-pressed to find anybody. His takeover of the Republican party was a hostile takeover.

Your book describes the Republican party in collapse. As far as establishment Republicans in DC are concerned, then, is the Trump takeover permanent?

They did this to themselves. And its way too easy ten years from now to lay it all on Trump. Theyre the ones who invited Trump in the first place.

Former Republican Voter After Capitol Riot: ‘i Want No Association With This Party Anymore’

Like so many Republicans, Im sick and tired of talking about saving a party that shows few signs of wanting redemption, which makes it increasingly hard to hold on to the tattered remnants of a once-proud party. Indeed, since the insurrection more than 30,000 Republican voters have dropped their affiliation with the GOP, with many echoing the words of former Secretary of State Colin Powell, I can no longer call myself a fellow Republican.

Despite my own pessimisms about the Grand Old Party, I believe its salvation can still be found in our guiding principles, which do not include putting kids in cages, spewing lies and conspiracies and fermenting deadly insurrections. For those Republicans who remain behind, its time to refocus on what it means to be a Republican. While former President Donald Trump spent four years trying to reshape as much of the Republican Party into his image as possible and, failing that, setting the rest on fire, I agree with Rep. Adam Kinzinger, R-Ill., who said, There is a real split for the future of the party, and that epic battle has commenced. Bring it on!

My fellow Republicans must stop playing stupid.

The Religious Right Traded Morals For Supreme Court Seats Was Trump Worth It

Succumbing to the worst tendencies of ones party isnt new or unprecedented; weve been here before. Moral crises have repeatedly tested the will of our great nation. This country has battled through the dark days of slavery, segregation, McCarthyism and Watergate, and still we stand. Not because of magic pixie dust but thanks to brave patriots, willing to take unpopular yet principled stands because our social contract demands it.

And America has always managed to find its way back from the brink because of our ability to come together, in search of a shared purpose, when we as a country need it the most. We are edging toward a brink now, not of violence necessarily but certainly of near-intractable partisanship. Just look at the differing ways the impeachment inquiry is being covered. I may be foolish, but I still believe in our shared purpose. I still believe that, in spite of those who have turned their back on our motto, e pluribus unum, principled conservatives will find their way back home.

From Pig Hunting To Tea Party Meetings Former Npr Ceo Ken Stern Immersed Himself In Conservative Culture

Ken Stern did not expect to enjoy pig hunting in Texas.

As the former head of NPR, he did not expect to find common ground with the people of evangelical churches or eastern Kentucky coal mines. And he did not expect to renounce his Democratic membership.  

But after a year immersed in Republican culture, Stern learned life on the other side of the political divide is far from how it’s depicted a problem he pins on a polarized media landscape, and the very institutions he formerly called home.

‘Virtually everyone in the mainstream media is on one side of the political landscape and not the other.’ – Ken Stern

Widest Perception Gap At Political Extremes

In one of the largest national studies of Americas polarization ever conducted, More in Commons Hidden Tribes report identified seven political tribes:

The Hidden Tribes of America

The Perception Gap study builds on these insights. It finds that the most partisan, politically active Americans a group we call the Wings have deeply distorted perceptions of the other side. The two groups with the widest Perception Gaps are the Progressive Activists and the Devoted Conservativesthe most ideological and committed groups of Democrats and Republicans.

And which is the most accurate segment? Surprisingly, its the Politically Disengaged. They are fully three times more accurate in their estimates of political opponents than members of either of these Wing groups. The V-shaped Perception Gap shows that the less invested you are in politics today, the less distorted your perception of politics.

The Party Of The Country Club Tries To Embrace A New Egalitarian Economic Agenda

ILLUSTRATION BY AESTHETIC APPARATUS/MICHAEL BYZEWSKI

We are a working-class party now, Missouri Republican Senator Josh Hawley tweeted at 10:53 p.m. Eastern time on election night in November. Thats the future. A few minutes later, Fox called Arizona for Joe Biden, beginning a string of for Donald Trump and pointing toward a future quite different than the one Hawley had probably imagined when he posted. Hawley arrived in the Senate two years into the Trump era, and since then has pitched an agenda built around the concerns of the common man and woman. Sympathizing with cultural grievances, as Hawley does in fighting internet pornography, is something at which Republicans have been skilled for decades. Addressing the economic disadvantages of the less-well-off has been a blind spot. While Hawley himself has resisted mandatory increases in the minimum wage, his political world has been heating up recently, and it is changing his politics. When he announced in December that he planned to challenge the electoral-vote tally in the Senate, a rogue Walmart social media staffer attacked him as a sore loser via the companys Twitter account. The company promptly apologized, but not before Hawley suggested to Walmart, maybe youd like to apologize for the pathetic wages you pay your workers as you drive mom and pop stores out of business.

Christopher Caldwell is a contributing editor at The Claremont Review of Books.

[statetalks]

How Can Republicans Live With Themselves

Trump Is Still A Force In The Party

After the 2012 elections, prominent Republicans sharply criticized Mitt Romney and his campaign. Democrats did the same to Hillary Clinton after 2016 and sometimes included former President Barack Obama in their criticisms, too. For a political party to change direction, it nearly always has to distance itself from past leaders. 

Or put another way: For there to be an autopsy, there has to be a dead body.

Trump Slams ‘wayward’ Republicans For Capitol Riot Vote

US Capitol riots

Former US president Donald Trump blasted “wayward Republicans” after lawmakers made a rare bipartisan push to investigate the Capitol riot.

With the support of 35 Republicans, the Democratic-controlled House of Representatives voted 252-175 to look into the events of 6 January.

Party leaders had urged Republicans to oppose the bill, with Mr Trump labelling it a “Democrat trap”.

The bill appears to lack the Republican support it needs to pass in the Senate.

It seeks to create an independent inquiry modelled on the commission that investigated the 9/11 attacks on New York and Washington.

The legislation establishes a 10-member body, evenly split between the two main parties, that would make recommendations by the end of the year on how to prevent any repeat of the Capitol invasion.

Trump supporters stormed Congress on 6 January in a failed bid to thwart certification of President Joe Biden’s victory in November’s election.

Wednesday’s vote was seen as a loyalty test to the former president for members of his party.

All 10 of the House Republicans who voted to impeach Trump in the days after the Capitol riot for incitement of insurrection were among the 35 who voted for the commission.

In a statement after the vote, Mr Trump hit out at the “wayward” Republican group, saying, “they just can’t help themselves”.

“Sometimes there are consequences to being ineffective and weak,” Mr Trump added.

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But Trumps continued popularity among key GOP constituencies prevents Republican insiders from undertaking a formal, public discussion about his political shortcomings and how the party should move on from him. Everyone in the GOP knows that irritating Trump could result in the former president attacking them, which would make them vulnerable to a primary challenge, with conservative activists likely backing their opponent. So there will be no autopsy of the post-Trump Republican Party, akin to the Republican National Committees report in 2013 following Romneys defeat, at least not in public. 

There Arent Real Forces Within The Gop Leading Change

There is some appetite for change within the GOP. In those 2024 polls, at least a third of Republicans either were supporting a GOP presidential candidate other than Trump or were undecided. 

In YouGov Blues polling, only about 40 percent of Republicans identified themselves as Trump Republicans. A recent survey from Fabrizio, Lee and Associates, a GOP-leaning firm that worked on Trumps presidential campaigns, found that about 40 percent of Republican voters didnt want Trump to continue to be a leader in the party. Those numbers dont necessarily mean that those voters want the GOP to change drastically. But there is a substantial number of Trump-skeptical/ready-to-move-on-from-Trump Republican voters. But that sentiment isnt really showing up in the Republican Partys actions during the last three months basically everything GOP officials in states and in Washington are doing lines up with the Trumpian approach. So what gives? 

related:Why The Recent Violence Against Asian Americans May Solidify Their Support Of Democrats Read more. »

It is hard to see Republicans changing course, even if a meaningful minority of voters in the party wants changes, without some elite institutions and powerful people in the party pushing a new vision. And its hard to see real anti-Trumpism forces emerging in the GOP right now. 

Democrats Return The Favor: Republicans Uninformed Or Self

The 429 Democratic voters in our sample returned the favor and raised many of the same themes. Democrats inferred that Republicans must be VERY ill-informed, or that Fox news told me to vote for Republicans.  Or that Republicans are uneducated and misguided people guided by what the media is feeding them.

Many also attributed votes to individual self-interest whereas GOP voters feel Democrats want free stuff, many Democrats believe Republicans think that I got mine and dont want the libs to take it away, or that some day I will be rich and then I can get the benefits that rich people get now.

Many used the question to express their anger and outrage at the other side.  Rather than really try to take the position of their opponents, they said things like, I like a dictatorial system of Government, Im a racist, I hate non-whites. 

Opinion:how Can Republicans Defend Trump Because Of The Clintons

Of all the desperate defenses that Republicans were forced to try as the impeachment hearings wore on, the strangest was that President Trump was just doing his job fighting corruption in Ukraine. Even his supporters have to concede that Trumps interest in corruption began and ended with one Ukrainian company.

After all, if Trump cared about family members using their connections to the presidency for personal enrichment, hed have been investigating son-in-law Jared Kushners family for wooing Chinese investors by playing up its familial ties to the Oval Office, or investigating his own administration for attempting to divert a major global summit to one of his properties. No one can reasonably believe the president cares about corruption, unless fighting it might help him win elections.

The latest updates in the Trump impeachment hearings

Unfortunately, Democratic outrage against political corruption, pretextual investigations and the use of vested powers to help your party win elections sounds a little hollow. For three years, impeachment, for many Democrats, has been an effect searching for a cause. Ukraine may have fit the bill perfectly, but anything else would have done just as well.

Read more:

Conservative Intellectuals Were Blind To The Truth About The Gop Hence Trump

The available evidence compiled by historians and political scientists suggests that 1964 really was a pivotal political moment, in exactly the way Roy describes.

Yet Republican intellectuals have long denied this, fabricating a revisionist history in which Republicans were and always have been the party of civil rights. In 2012, ran a lengthy cover story arguing that the standard history recounted by Roy was popular but indefensible.

This revisionism, according to Roy, points to a much bigger conservative delusion: They cannot admit that their partys voters are motivated far more by white identity politics than by conservative ideals.

Conservative intellectuals, and conservative politicians, have been in kind of a bubble, Roy says. Weve had this view that the voters were with us on conservatism philosophical, economic conservatism. In reality, the gravitational center of the Republican Party is white nationalism.

Conservative intellectuals, for the most part, are horrified by racism. When they talk about believing in individual rights and equality, they really mean it. Because the Republican Party is the vehicle through which their ideas can be implemented, they need to believe that the party isnt racist.

Its the power of wishful thinking. None of us want to accept that opposition to civil rights is the legacy that weve inherited, Roy says.

Beneath The Hood Of Trump’s Support Base

Trump’s victory in 2016 came on the back of a surge in voter turnout among white Americans without a college degree, a group he won by better than a 2-1 margin over Democrat Hillary Clinton. Trump won 6.5 million more voters over the age of 45, despite losing the national popular vote by almost three million.

But that “demographic blowback” which saw some older Americans cast a vote for the first time since Ronald Reagan was on the ballot, was never a long-term strategy they are literally dying off.

But they aren’t dead yet, and neither is Trump’s support base.

AP: Julio Cortez

A found 89 per cent of voters without a college degree and 74 per cent of Republicans want Trump to stay active in politics in some way. Almost half of Republicans want Trump to remain head of their party, while 11 per cent want him to break away and start his own party. It’s that final figure that probably worries Republicans more than any other.

Trump has already flirted with the idea of starting his own “Patriot Party” to rival both Republicans and Democrats, and provide a vehicle for a potential third presidential campaign in 2024.

The only time a former president tried to return to office under the banner of a new party, Theodore Roosevelt in 1912, he consigned his former Republican Party to a distant third place.

‘this Is Not A Political Campaign This Is Deadly Serious’: Cheney Speaks After Jan 6 Committee

Those Republicans were not in the room. House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., and his fellow GOP leaders decided not to appoint members to the select committee investigating the riot. They will neither defend nor condemn the Capitol riot in the historical annals of the Congressional Record.

They have chosen official silence refusing to defend the indefensible while signaling tacit and docile support for former President Donald Trump and the rioters who stormed the Capitol in his name.

Former Rep. David Jolly, who left the GOP in 2018, said the Republican leadership is trying to divert public attention away from the hearings.

“The committee is set up to get to the truth about Jan. 6,” Jolly said. “Republican opposition to its work is clearly an effort to obstruct that truth from reaching voters.”

Still, by threatening to punish fellow Republicans Liz Cheney of Wyoming and Kinzinger, McCarthy has made clear to Americans that in his House Republican Conference, it is better to back a riot than to buck Trump.

Choosing not to send Republican allies to sit on the committee McCarthy opted to abstain after Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., rejected two of his picks because they have spread lies about the riot may be an act of political cowardice. But it is certainly a political miscalculation.

We may have our deep differences on other policy issues,” Kinzinger said. “But we are all Americans today.

The Social Media Effect

Social media platforms provide us a personalized way to receive news and commentary from anyone and everyone with whom we are connected. In theory, this could mean that users see a cross section of their community’s political views, representing the full range of perspectives within their network. Unfortunately, our study’s findings paint a less encouraging picture. First, only 26% of American report sharing social media posts about politics. Second, these Americans have higher Perception Gaps than the national average. While those who do not post on social media have an average Perception Gap of 18, those who do post on social media have an average Perception Gap of 29. The political content we see on social media is therefore disproportionately from people with a more distorted understanding of the other side, further adding to the problem.

The Partys Core Activists Dont Want To Shift Gears

This is the simplest and most obvious explanation: The GOP isnt changing directions because the people driving the car dont want to. 

When we think of Republicans, we tend to think of either rank-and-file GOP voters or the partys highest-profile elected officials, particularly its leaders in Congress. But in many ways, the partys direction is driven by a group between those two: conservative organizations like Club for Growth and the Heritage Foundation, GOP officials at the local and state level and right-wing media outlets. That segment of the party has been especially resistant to the GOP abandoning its current mix of tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations, opposition to expansions of programs that benefit the poor and an identity politics that centers white Americans and conservative Christians.

You could see the power and preferences of this group in the response to the Capitol insurrection.

In the days immediately following Jan. 6, many GOP elected officials, most notably McConnell, signaled that the party should make a permanent break from Trump. an increased number of rank-and-file GOP voters were dissatisfied with the outgoing president. But by the time the Senate held its trial over Trumps actions a month later, it was clear that the party was basically back in line with Trump. 

related:Why Being Anti-Media Is Now Part Of The GOP Identity Read more. »

Sen Mazie Hirono Wonders How Some Republicans Live With Themselves

Even after being elected to the Senate in 2012, the Hawaii Democrat Mazie Hirono was, by her own choosing, a politician little known outside her home state. Then, around 2016 and the election of a particularly divisive president, Hirono, who was born in Japan and is the Senates only immigrant, decided that staying under the radar was unsustainable. She frequently made herself available to the national media. She publicly said President Trump was a misogynist and a liar and called for his resignation . She unabashedly punctuated her comments with salty language. And it wasnt just her unexpected transition that raised her profile: Senator Hironos forceful questioning during the Kavanaugh and Barrett Supreme Court confirmation hearings, as well as, more recently, calling on President Biden to nominate more diverse people for senior positions in his administration, have also been central to her earning national stature. Its not the easiest thing for political people to speak candidly with the national media, says Senator Hirono, who is 73 and whose memoir, Heart of Fire, will be published on April 20. Im not doing it for effect. I dont go out there and spew things. Ive thought things through.

Garland said that to you about the Garza case? No, I said that to Garland. He just kind of looked at me like, Yeah. I knew that he was astounded.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity from two conversations.

Republicans Are Trying To Rebrand Themselves As Working Class Heroes

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About a week after he was busted for taking a trip to Cancun amid a historic power crisis in his home state, Ted Cruz made a bold declaration: The Republican Party is not the party of the country clubs, he . Its the party of hardworking, blue-collar men and women. The GOP, he claimed at the yearly jamboree of right-wing nutjobs last week, was not a party for the mostly rich, mostly white men who represent it in Washington. On the contrary, he the Conservative Political Action Conference, where the cost of admission ranged from the mid-hundreds of dollars to , Republicans are the party of steel workers and construction workers and taxi drivers and cops and firefighters and waitresses.

These deplorables, the Texas Senator told big ticket CPAC attendees in February, are here to stay.

This characterization, of course, is ridiculous on its face; how can you claim your party is not the party of country clubs when its deified leader, Donald Trump, literally in a private club he owns. But its an aggressive branding exercise that Republicans have engaged in throughout the Trump years, and that they appear to be ramping up since he was defeated by Joe Biden in November, when the insurrectionist Senator Josh Hawley wrote that we are a working class party now.

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Making The Audience Laugh And Cry

It has become a cliché to declare that Republicans and Democrats live in two different worlds these days, but it turns out there is some truth to the observation.

New research on political behavior finds that most Democratic and Republican voters live in partisan bubbles, with little daily exposure to those who belong to the other party. For instance the typical Democrat has almost zero interactions with Republicans in their neighborhood, according to an by Harvard doctoral student Jacob R. Brown and government Professor Ryan D. Enos published March 8 in the journal Nature Human Behaviour.

Theres a lot of evidence that any separation between groups has a lot of negative consequences. We see this in race; we see this in religion; we see this in all kinds of things, said Enos. And increasingly, we see this in partisanship in the United States.

Using geolocation data and the exact addresses of all 180 million registered voters in the U.S. as of June 2018, the two were able to precisely map, for the first time, where Democrats and Republicans live in relation to each other in every town, city, and state in the U.S. Then, rather than rely on the usual precinct or data aggregations, they used weighted measures and recorded the distance between voters to show how people are divided by geography and partisanship across the country.

The measurement of partisan sorting for 180 million voters,

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It certainly might.

And I wouldnt necessarily buy anybody who was selling that. But there are without question people in the administration who fit that criteriapeople who I know for a fact are just deeply disturbred by the president and his behavior, and some of his demagoguery, but feel as though walking away as a sign of protest would be counterproductive. Because the president needs people around him who are stable influences to help steer the ship. And if they were to walk away, maybe the ship sinks.

Theres a bit of a scarlet letter that almost everyone in the Republican party is going to wear.

The president is not oblivious to the fact that this administration is staffed with an awful lot of people who said some really nasty things about him during the campaign. Its not lost on Trump that he has a lot of staff members who were not fans of him once and probably not fans of him today. Look, if Trump was only to staff his White House with people who had never said a negative thing about him, he would be really hard-pressed to find anybody. His takeover of the Republican party was a hostile takeover.

Your book describes the Republican party in collapse. As far as establishment Republicans in DC are concerned, then, is the Trump takeover permanent?

They did this to themselves. And its way too easy ten years from now to lay it all on Trump. Theyre the ones who invited Trump in the first place.

Former Republican Voter After Capitol Riot: ‘i Want No Association With This Party Anymore’

Like so many Republicans, Im sick and tired of talking about saving a party that shows few signs of wanting redemption, which makes it increasingly hard to hold on to the tattered remnants of a once-proud party. Indeed, since the insurrection more than 30,000 Republican voters have dropped their affiliation with the GOP, with many echoing the words of former Secretary of State Colin Powell, I can no longer call myself a fellow Republican.

Despite my own pessimisms about the Grand Old Party, I believe its salvation can still be found in our guiding principles, which do not include putting kids in cages, spewing lies and conspiracies and fermenting deadly insurrections. For those Republicans who remain behind, its time to refocus on what it means to be a Republican. While former President Donald Trump spent four years trying to reshape as much of the Republican Party into his image as possible and, failing that, setting the rest on fire, I agree with Rep. Adam Kinzinger, R-Ill., who said, There is a real split for the future of the party, and that epic battle has commenced. Bring it on!

My fellow Republicans must stop playing stupid.

The Religious Right Traded Morals For Supreme Court Seats Was Trump Worth It

Succumbing to the worst tendencies of ones party isnt new or unprecedented; weve been here before. Moral crises have repeatedly tested the will of our great nation. This country has battled through the dark days of slavery, segregation, McCarthyism and Watergate, and still we stand. Not because of magic pixie dust but thanks to brave patriots, willing to take unpopular yet principled stands because our social contract demands it.

And America has always managed to find its way back from the brink because of our ability to come together, in search of a shared purpose, when we as a country need it the most. We are edging toward a brink now, not of violence necessarily but certainly of near-intractable partisanship. Just look at the differing ways the impeachment inquiry is being covered. I may be foolish, but I still believe in our shared purpose. I still believe that, in spite of those who have turned their back on our motto, e pluribus unum, principled conservatives will find their way back home.

From Pig Hunting To Tea Party Meetings Former Npr Ceo Ken Stern Immersed Himself In Conservative Culture

Ken Stern did not expect to enjoy pig hunting in Texas.

As the former head of NPR, he did not expect to find common ground with the people of evangelical churches or eastern Kentucky coal mines. And he did not expect to renounce his Democratic membership.  

But after a year immersed in Republican culture, Stern learned life on the other side of the political divide is far from how it’s depicted a problem he pins on a polarized media landscape, and the very institutions he formerly called home.

‘Virtually everyone in the mainstream media is on one side of the political landscape and not the other.’ – Ken Stern

Widest Perception Gap At Political Extremes

In one of the largest national studies of Americas polarization ever conducted, More in Commons Hidden Tribes report identified seven political tribes:

The Hidden Tribes of America

The Perception Gap study builds on these insights. It finds that the most partisan, politically active Americans a group we call the Wings have deeply distorted perceptions of the other side. The two groups with the widest Perception Gaps are the Progressive Activists and the Devoted Conservativesthe most ideological and committed groups of Democrats and Republicans.

And which is the most accurate segment? Surprisingly, its the Politically Disengaged. They are fully three times more accurate in their estimates of political opponents than members of either of these Wing groups. The V-shaped Perception Gap shows that the less invested you are in politics today, the less distorted your perception of politics.

The Party Of The Country Club Tries To Embrace A New Egalitarian Economic Agenda

ILLUSTRATION BY AESTHETIC APPARATUS/MICHAEL BYZEWSKI

We are a working-class party now, Missouri Republican Senator Josh Hawley tweeted at 10:53 p.m. Eastern time on election night in November. Thats the future. A few minutes later, Fox called Arizona for Joe Biden, beginning a string of for Donald Trump and pointing toward a future quite different than the one Hawley had probably imagined when he posted. Hawley arrived in the Senate two years into the Trump era, and since then has pitched an agenda built around the concerns of the common man and woman. Sympathizing with cultural grievances, as Hawley does in fighting internet pornography, is something at which Republicans have been skilled for decades. Addressing the economic disadvantages of the less-well-off has been a blind spot. While Hawley himself has resisted mandatory increases in the minimum wage, his political world has been heating up recently, and it is changing his politics. When he announced in December that he planned to challenge the electoral-vote tally in the Senate, a rogue Walmart social media staffer attacked him as a sore loser via the companys Twitter account. The company promptly apologized, but not before Hawley suggested to Walmart, maybe youd like to apologize for the pathetic wages you pay your workers as you drive mom and pop stores out of business.

Christopher Caldwell is a contributing editor at The Claremont Review of Books.

source https://www.patriotsnet.com/how-can-republicans-live-with-themselves/

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I got a Vintage Truck Yeah Mother Trucker T Shirt lot of PayPal will ship they would know they would know things about your child’s medical history in order to know about your child’s medical history in order to determine the value of your child on the market not to mention my baby was exotic as I’m I’m black and Indian Guyanese makes an mom is half black and half Puerto Rican so my daughter is a beautiful brown color is beautiful curly brown hair it’s a short she’s she’s an amazing get and knowing that I have a daughter that looks this way I understood the necessity for me to have to protect her with my life you mean because I light skinned I spent my whole life treat my finger like shit now God gave me a light skinned daughter I have to protect the child with my and I did that and I paid a steep price for but she still here and motherfuckers are still trying to take my daughter from I’m still being targeted and now using my own fucking family to try to do but that’s a whole other story and Danny golf line either. The cost met with over 200 oncologist in cancer research centers and I’m asking what is what made clear the way for where we and impediment is determined not going to walk away and tell there is real change this is a truly bipartisan issue so the leaders in this effort in the House and Senate Republicans as well as Democrats is been pushed to the edge of what anyone be expected to bear hauling correction of my cancer your man is you have experienced tragedies in our life and we are inspired by the way that you have responded to announce every single family American has been affected by cancer and we’re so close one wrong believe Anita shot this country to cure cancer is person but I know we can do there are so many breakthroughs just arise we can make them real absolute national committee are Democrats and Republicans on the Hill who share our silence this deadly disease by community one because it’s possible I before we continue with tonight’s program I want to thank everyone who has made this unprecedented. Oh shit is a disease like is will work for me all night thing about this now is like hold onto a say good things are bad things about her I don’t remember because if you if if they if they either don’t say anything at all about him or say positive things he likes them but they’ve said anything negative about them publicly will attack on and nine letter and good is Elton John playing in the back on his piece is just at a rally rally okay also was always be a good president right now this is a good president church because he decided to be positive about it do I mean obviously I want a an amazing woman you with an amazing woman and I made the music on makes me sad to be configured as amazing as you consider raising is so you will trying to think of something else that he doesn’t know many other descriptive words he has positive and ones UL very bad valuable to terminals are so sad yeah it’s another one is really good at making up this is for people’s names though honestly I like being up being a bully he’s in that’s like it’s about elementary school level though is that you so very much

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of the other scores is how I feel about this bikeand the total packageand a sum of all the parts combined the street that is just a great overall Harley Davidson it’s one of the top selling bikes right now take the number one seller in our dealershipand sent it nine 2006 that has been is one of Harley Davidson’s top sellers it sold so good that a lot of other manufacturers have basically just made their street guide copy to you to capitalize on how popular this type of cruiser is right nowand I put my money where our mouth is I’ve bought two of these things at this point I just I love the streetlight it’s a great bike as far as your tall guys a touring chassis bike is great for taller guys could spread yellow the little bit moreand so Jan given the spike in nine is like my final score for the streak I love it I saidand I just got off the that you bikes the 2016 streetlight special with the state for onceand in the brand new 2019 with the stock 14 cubic in Milwaukee a so it’s it’s 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Harris as our next vice president you know it comes from people all over the country’s already occurring all over the country all ideological views all backgrounds events of course we are predictable some of them become small over except of course Donald Trump’s White House and his allies y’all knew was coming because set your watches to down jump is already started his attacks calling quote nasty whiny about how she is quote mean to his appointees is no surprise because whining is what Donald Trump does best in any president in American history is anyone surprised down Trump is a problem for the strong women are strong women across the board we know the more succumb for less be clear if you’re working person See Other related products: Bird Raven Skull Attempted Murder Vintage Retro T-Shirt

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Winner Takes All

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Reggie had never been so frustratingly angry before. To learn that he was being blacklisted from a fraternity that he had the right to be in, to know that the object of his affections wasn't any closer to reciprocating those feelings, and to know his robot could likely not make the cut to get into the collegiate robotic championship all weighed his mind down until his thoughts were nothing but a whirlpool of darkness.

He was still consumed with them by the next day but had at least gotten to work on his robot after meeting with his father. That was one step closer to solving the latter problem.

He went back to the engineering building Sunday afternoon. No surprise, Shane Calhoun was also there fiddling around with his pathetic luxury gardening robot. Who needed such a thing? Was there a demand for a service so dull?

Information was a commodity—the ability to gain knowledge and use it against your enemies or in your favor. Now that was worth something. Shane of course, didn't say anything to Reggie and vice versa; both young men were on chilly terms, especially now that the mayor's election was so close and their fathers were toe-to-toe in the polls.

They had been classmates, not close, but cordial enough in high school. Shane didn't exactly put himself out there but then again, Reggie wasn't the most social boy either. He briefly looked to Shane, who was ignoring him and tightening up his robot chassis, and still felt a pang of regret for snapping at Alanna and driving her away—and into helping Shane the previous night.

Shane eventually left, docked his robot in its stand and Reggie took the rest of Sunday, well into the evening to finish programming his spypot to accept audio feed. He tested a recording, it sounded faint, so he cracked open the robot and adjusted the microphone to be near the bottom. Alanna had been right about the sound being more clear from that point.

Now it was Monday; he stayed in his apartment all day, playing Rush Hour and grinding out wins like it was nothing. Every win would gain an amount of in-game credit he could use to purchase custom car parts and upgrade the racing vehicles he used. He hoped that Violet_Fire would return soon so he could show it off, and then if luck permitted, win a race against them again. They were the only one, it seemed, to be good enough to make a race interesting—because he never knew for sure if he'd win against them.

Then just like that there was a *ping* and a chat box appeared in the corner of his screen.

Violet_Fire: Wanna race?

MegaZoom: k if ya wanna lose : P

Violet_Fire: Keep dreaming you N00b ;)

Reggie smirked. They were just trying to shake him up before he began. He went to main screen and started up a co-op game. Violet_Fire immediately entered into the instance and picked a classic car with a high-ranked engine they must have bought through in-game credits. Reggie's custom racing car, was a sports car with an engine that had top speed stats. He had put together and, it was in his opinion, a perfect racing engine for this game.

Violet_Fire: what is this?!?!?!

MegaZoom: :D

He wondered if they would chicken out and withdraw but they stayed in the instance. Stubborn as usual.

Violet_Fire: lets race the valley map

MegaZoom: why, so you can make tighter turns and try to get past me?

Violet_Fire: I don't need tight turns to beat ur behiney ;)

There was that word again. Alanna had said it the other night. What were the chances...the cosmic chances of her being his Rush hour rival all along?

MegaZoom: Wanna bet?

Violet_Fire: I do ;P

That took him by surprise. He was only joking around but now he was intrigued...

MegaZoom: What do you want if happen you beat me? Not that it'll happen

The ‘Violet_Fire is typing’ notice seemed to last forever before their message was submitted.

Violet_Fire: I want your custom car

That was untoward. You could trade cars in the game but Reggie's custom car was worth hundreds of hours of grinding and racing randoms. What would be worth the equivalent? He still wondered if Violet_Fire could have been Alanna Thackery, but was that information worth the potential loss of his custom car?

MegaZoom: If I win, how about you get on the voice chat channel and trash talk me without hiding behind a wall of text?

Violet_Fire: Fine lets do this

Though, Reggie immediately had a flick of nervousness in his gut and dryness in his throat because on the off-chance Violet_Fire was Alanna, she would surely recognize his voice! Would she think he was stalking her all this time? He had gone to some length to find out her class schedule but that was only recently when he realized how much he still liked her and it was handy to know where she'd be on campus so he could conveniently 'bump' into her. Evelyn Jane had done stuff like that in the past and he always thought it was dishonest but he could see the merit in it now.

Another *ping* interrupted his thoughts, Violet_Fire was impatient to begin and told him to start the game already. So he did.

He selected the valley map, which had its roads through tunnels, across rivers and especially tight turns. It wasn't his favorite but he'd won races on it before. The trick was to drift on the corners and his custom car had a sweet drift, fine-tuned to withstand the sharp curves of the road.  

The screen counted down 3...2...1 and Reggie slammed the up arrow on his keyboard, dragging his mouse to the left. His car peeled out and was hair ahead of Violet_Fire's. The first bend was a corner but not the sharpest and he drifted around it with ease. Annoyingly, so did Violet_Fire.  

His heart sank a bit as they passed him and took the fork in the road that was a shortcut on the map, but had more perilous obstacles. He didn't ever take the shortcut because of them. So he relied on his speed-tacular engine to make up the time as he made up the distance.  

He came up behind Violet Fire's car and gave them a bump of warning, but not enough to send the off road into a crash. He managed to get ahead after passing the start line. They had two more laps to go.

He maintained first place all throughout the second lap but then the third the tides changed when Violet_Fire spun out and took him down as well. All momentum was lost and it was a scramble to get the cars pointed the right direction and the speed up again. That dirty move put them back into first place and Reggie couldn't lose! He just couldn't! He was tired of losing all the time!

So instead of taking the safe path, he was desperate enough to try the shortcut to make up the lost distance. He was already behind and so he took a calculated risk to see if it would pay off. He avoided getting stuck on a collapsed bridge and drove through a waterfall, finally a dark tunnel with no light until he turned a corner. He sometimes ran his cars into the tunnel walls when he took that map shortcut. Finally, the light at the end of the tunnel appeared and he hit his booster. His sports car nearly flew out of the shortcut and landed in front of Violet_Fire, who must have thought their win was inevitable since he was so far behind and therefore didn't bother taking it in the first place.

He nearly flipped his keyboard in excitement after zooming across the finish line in first place. He'd get to keep his custom car, and talk to his biggest racing nemesis voice-to-voice. To find out if they were who he suspected they were. He quickly typed in into the chat box.

MegaZoom: I'm on the RH05 channel.

He flipped his headset microphone to ‘on’ and had to swallow a few lumps in his throat. It was just a race in a video game but his adrenaline was high. A second later Violet_Fire's avatar popped up in the voice chat—it was of a purple flame. Plumbbobs, what was he going to say?

"H...h..hi there," he stuttered out but lowered the register of his voice significantly.

"I want a rematch," came the clear voice of Violet_Fire. Definitely female, definitely familiar and his heart seemed to stop beating and all the saliva in his mouth dried up entirely.

"Sore loser much?" he finally asked. It had seemed like minutes between when she spoke but in all-reality was only a few seconds. He would never speak in this way to Alanna face-to-face but it would just make her suspicious if his online persona suddenly started being super nice for no reason.

"I thought crashing into you would have pushed you far enough behind, and I never would have thought you'd take the shortcut on the valley map."

Reggie laughed, "I knew you wouldn't."

"Anyway, I got on chat like you wanted. What now? Want me to trash talk you like you asked?"

"I didn't ask you to trash talk me! I just figured it'd be interesting to hear you do it with your own voice."

It was kind of surreal, to hear her talk so candidly. It made him wonder how calculated her words were in a regular basis; he’d always assumed her kind words were the norm but she was really quite brash behind the mask of anonymity.

"So, you're a girl,"

"How observant of you," she snapped back before he could get to his point.

"No, I knew when you first talked but I'm wondering if I could ask your advice on something?"

She made a long, low sound that gave of the impression she was apprehensive or even inconvenienced, "Suuuuurrreee."

"What is your idea of a perfect date?"

"Why are you asking?" she teased.

If she only knew.

But he was glad he had the upper hand and she didn’t know who he really was.

"There's this girl I like and was going to ask her out but I haven't been on a date for years..."

There was nothing but silence, and he dreaded she recognized his voice or figured out his identity but after a few moments, her voice rang through with a suggestion--"Take her stargazing."

"Stargazing?"

"Yeah, like cuddling under the stars or something. I know it's pretty nerdy and all but I'm just kind of fascinated about the galaxy, are we the only ones out here? You know? I had a telescope when I was little, but my sister kept hogging it and we'd fight over it."

It was even more evident the person he was talking to was Alanna with that fact. He knew she had a sister, and her sister was kind of unpleasant and snide from what he remembered. He could feel for poor little Alanna being bullied away from her telescope and her suggestion and anecdote only made her more adorable.

"Hey, it's okay. I mean we do play a lot of video games so that makes us nerdy anyway, right?" he tried to reassure her.

"Speak for yourself, video games are the new cool!"

He laughed as did she and he felt more at ease, like he was talking to her normally as if they were chemistry partners in high school again. Well, all besides his lowered voice, which he had been careful to maintain the lowered tone as he talked as not to arouse suspicion.

"How long have you been playing Rush Hour? You're pretty damn good." Reggie asked.

"I started about a year ago. My brother gave me a link to download the free trial and it got me kind of hooked on it."

Reggie recalled that Alanna had a brother as well.

"How did you get into it?" she asked in turn.

"I saw it was a recommended play in a gaming magazine and so went out and bought a copy. I've been playing since I started college."

"What college?"

"Sim State. You?"

"I didn't say I went to college."

He inwardly cursed for giving away info that he knew more about her than she knew he would know.

"But do you?" He asked, covering over his blunder, “I mean you sound like you could be a student.”

"I do and I am."

"Where?"

"I think...I've given enough personal info for one day. Good luck on your date and let's race again soon, Zoom." she said then added, "That is, if you want to lose!"

With that, she disconnected and he wasn't even offended by her last needling comment.

How could it be that a girl he thought was perfect had somehow become even more so? What was more perfect than perfection? Divinity? Was Alanna Thackery, in fact, a goddess?

He stood to stretch his legs because he'd been sitting for a while at his computer. The lightness he felt at winning, and knowing that the girl of his dreams was his one and only gaming rival made him feel as though he could lift off the ground at any moment--happy enough to fly if he could. He only took a few steps back until he felt the bed frame behind his knees and fell onto his mattress with a heavy sense of satisfaction. Something, something had gone his way for once.

His imagination ran wild thinking of what other games she could have played, a fierce spark in her eyes as she raced, the determined smile between her lips when she was focused on winning. He fantasized about this side of Alanna he'd never seen—the competitive, sassy, unapologetically candid version of her.

Picturing her, in all her perfection behind closed eyelids--made him smile and hope that his plan to ask her out would work. He could plan her idea of a perfect date and then she’d have no reason not to fall for him.

A different *ping* sound suddenly went off--a faint little note coming out of his headphones which he had taken off before standing up. It was a chat box on a tab he’d left open on a web browser. He sat up, and curiously went to check it out.

The web page was sitting on the student profile site--a place he often visited to see if Alanna had added any new pictures or updates he could use as conversation fodder the next time he saw her. She hadn’t messaged him though. It was, to his very ultimate surprise--Marshall Cosgrove.

Marshall Cosgrove: Hey u there?

Reginald Orbinson: Yeah why? What do you want?

Marshall Cosgrove:  Meet me at the coffee shop on the east edge of campus.

Reggie felt himself frown. Why would the Hoh Fruhm President suddenly be interested in meeting with Reggie when the day before he had made it clear that Reggie was never going to be allowed in?

Reginald Orbinson: Why would I?

Marshall Cosgrove: Cuz I have a proposition that could get you in.

He didn’t have to specify as to what Reggie could get ‘in’ and Reggie felt like his luck was on a roll that evening. If he got into Hoh Fruhm, everything would be right in the world. 

It was downright chilly outside, and Reggie could feel himself shivering in his jacket even. There weren’t any cricket chirping which had been a constant for the past three seasons. The night felt kind of lonely as he made his way to the edge of campus. He was to meet Marshall Cosgorve at the same coffee shop where they had seen each other the day before. Reggie headed toward the entrance, eager to get out of the cold but a voice stopped him.

“Orbinson.”

He halted and looked to the right to see Cosgrove backed up against one of the decorative fences that contained a tree with his arms crossed. The front of the coffee shop was a charmingly landscaped area that he didn’t mind sitting in between classes when the weather was nice. 

“Cosgrove,” he nodded and approached, waiting to hear what Marshall had to say, “Why the change of heart?”

Marshall merely glowered, as if he didn’t want to be offering Reggie a way in but he had no other choice, “To put it plainly, I need you to get some information on someone--I can’t use any of the guys at Hoh Fruhm because we are all being watched rather closely after today.”

“Why, what happened today?” 

Whatever it was that was bothering Marshall, seemed to explode as he threw his arms out, “We got raided! The police showed up on an anonymous tip that illegal substances were being used at our parties. They found pills, and now the charter is in jeopardy--Hoh Fruhm is on probation!”

“But not double-secret probation?” Reggie asked with a smirk. Marshall wasn’t amused by the reference and he slumped back against the fence.

“I’m sure I know who tipped the police off; the guy that left the frat a week ago--and the entire Greek Society like he was better than us.”

“Okay but what do you want me to do about it?”

“I want you to get some dirt on him. I’ll use it to ruin him. If he thinks he can just walk away and then drag us through the mud afterward then he has another thing coming. You get this information on him and I will let you join the vacancy he left behind.”

Reggie felt himself shiver but wasn't sure if it was because of the cold or the absolute hatred and determination in Marshall's voice. Reggie’s cleared his throat, he didn't know who this person was yet but it was possible that it would be impossible to deliver what Marshall wanted, "What if I can’t find any dirt on him?”

Marshall let out a scornful laugh, “The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree as far as the Calhouns are concerned. Nick’s dad is one of the slimiest son a bitches I’ve ever seen and you can probably agree since he’s running against yours in the election. So help me get dirt on Nick–he’ll go down like he should, and you get into the frat you've been wanting to all these years. It’s a win-win.”

Nicholas Calhoun.

Now there was a name that Reggie hadn’t heard for a long time. Reggie didn’t have to think long about the offer, because unbeknownst to Marshall, Nick and Reggie weren’t on friendly terms anyway. He had no emotional conflict in trying to cause Nick any embarrassment or hurt Marshall would have him suffer. It wasn’t like Nick Calhoun ever considered how much his words would affect young Reggie–getting every kid in school to laugh at him on a weekly basis when they were children.

But as much Reggie wouldn’t mind digging up dirt on Nick, he wanted more than what Marshall was offering for it.

“If I can get you the information you want to bury Nick, I want a position in the frat--vice president.”

Marshall nearly growled in response, “I can’t guarantee that, those positions are voted on by the members every semester...”

Reggie whirled around, a knowing frown plastered on his face, “The Calhouns aren’t the only slimy son of bitches in Kashmire--your father orchestrated the entire election between my dad and Elm Calhoun. You haven’t been fraternity president all these years because of your popularity, so don’t  tell me you can’t rig your own house elections.”

Marshall’s livid expression let up slightly at being called out, seeming to mull over Reggie’s demand. Reggie wasn’t naive, he knew Marshall would try to find a way to screw him over once he got what he wanted, especially now that he’d demanded a place of rank within Hoh Fruhm. He half expected Marshall to withdraw the offer but to his surprise, the blond straightened up and nodded.

“Okay, I’ll see what I can move around--but only if you get what I want. Nick Calhoun will pay for what he’s done.”

“Shake on it,” Reggie demanded and Marshall lifted his arm, extending his hand. Reggie took it in a firm grasp and they shook. It was a good thing Marshall came to him for this task--Cosgrove likely banked on Reggie’s desperation to join the Greek society as a sure way to obtain what he needed but Reggie could do one better. He had a spybot and that made all the difference between failure and victory.

[patriotsnet]

How Can Republicans Live With Themselves

New Post has been published on https://www.patriotsnet.com/how-can-republicans-live-with-themselves/

How Can Republicans Live With Themselves

Trump Is Still A Force In The Party

After the 2012 elections, prominent Republicans sharply criticized Mitt Romney and his campaign. Democrats did the same to Hillary Clinton after 2016 and sometimes included former President Barack Obama in their criticisms, too. For a political party to change direction, it nearly always has to distance itself from past leaders. 

Or put another way: For there to be an autopsy, there has to be a dead body.

Trump Slams ‘wayward’ Republicans For Capitol Riot Vote

US Capitol riots

Former US president Donald Trump blasted “wayward Republicans” after lawmakers made a rare bipartisan push to investigate the Capitol riot.

With the support of 35 Republicans, the Democratic-controlled House of Representatives voted 252-175 to look into the events of 6 January.

Party leaders had urged Republicans to oppose the bill, with Mr Trump labelling it a “Democrat trap”.

The bill appears to lack the Republican support it needs to pass in the Senate.

It seeks to create an independent inquiry modelled on the commission that investigated the 9/11 attacks on New York and Washington.

The legislation establishes a 10-member body, evenly split between the two main parties, that would make recommendations by the end of the year on how to prevent any repeat of the Capitol invasion.

Trump supporters stormed Congress on 6 January in a failed bid to thwart certification of President Joe Biden’s victory in November’s election.

Wednesday’s vote was seen as a loyalty test to the former president for members of his party.

All 10 of the House Republicans who voted to impeach Trump in the days after the Capitol riot for incitement of insurrection were among the 35 who voted for the commission.

In a statement after the vote, Mr Trump hit out at the “wayward” Republican group, saying, “they just can’t help themselves”.

“Sometimes there are consequences to being ineffective and weak,” Mr Trump added.

How Bipartisan Is Democrats Infrastructure Plan

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But Trumps continued popularity among key GOP constituencies prevents Republican insiders from undertaking a formal, public discussion about his political shortcomings and how the party should move on from him. Everyone in the GOP knows that irritating Trump could result in the former president attacking them, which would make them vulnerable to a primary challenge, with conservative activists likely backing their opponent. So there will be no autopsy of the post-Trump Republican Party, akin to the Republican National Committees report in 2013 following Romneys defeat, at least not in public. 

There Arent Real Forces Within The Gop Leading Change

There is some appetite for change within the GOP. In those 2024 polls, at least a third of Republicans either were supporting a GOP presidential candidate other than Trump or were undecided. 

In YouGov Blues polling, only about 40 percent of Republicans identified themselves as Trump Republicans. A recent survey from Fabrizio, Lee and Associates, a GOP-leaning firm that worked on Trumps presidential campaigns, found that about 40 percent of Republican voters didnt want Trump to continue to be a leader in the party. Those numbers dont necessarily mean that those voters want the GOP to change drastically. But there is a substantial number of Trump-skeptical/ready-to-move-on-from-Trump Republican voters. But that sentiment isnt really showing up in the Republican Partys actions during the last three months basically everything GOP officials in states and in Washington are doing lines up with the Trumpian approach. So what gives? 

related:Why The Recent Violence Against Asian Americans May Solidify Their Support Of Democrats Read more. »

It is hard to see Republicans changing course, even if a meaningful minority of voters in the party wants changes, without some elite institutions and powerful people in the party pushing a new vision. And its hard to see real anti-Trumpism forces emerging in the GOP right now. 

Democrats Return The Favor: Republicans Uninformed Or Self

The 429 Democratic voters in our sample returned the favor and raised many of the same themes. Democrats inferred that Republicans must be VERY ill-informed, or that Fox news told me to vote for Republicans.  Or that Republicans are uneducated and misguided people guided by what the media is feeding them.

Many also attributed votes to individual self-interest whereas GOP voters feel Democrats want free stuff, many Democrats believe Republicans think that I got mine and dont want the libs to take it away, or that some day I will be rich and then I can get the benefits that rich people get now.

Many used the question to express their anger and outrage at the other side.  Rather than really try to take the position of their opponents, they said things like, I like a dictatorial system of Government, Im a racist, I hate non-whites. 

Opinion:how Can Republicans Defend Trump Because Of The Clintons

Of all the desperate defenses that Republicans were forced to try as the impeachment hearings wore on, the strangest was that President Trump was just doing his job fighting corruption in Ukraine. Even his supporters have to concede that Trumps interest in corruption began and ended with one Ukrainian company.

After all, if Trump cared about family members using their connections to the presidency for personal enrichment, hed have been investigating son-in-law Jared Kushners family for wooing Chinese investors by playing up its familial ties to the Oval Office, or investigating his own administration for attempting to divert a major global summit to one of his properties. No one can reasonably believe the president cares about corruption, unless fighting it might help him win elections.

The latest updates in the Trump impeachment hearings

Unfortunately, Democratic outrage against political corruption, pretextual investigations and the use of vested powers to help your party win elections sounds a little hollow. For three years, impeachment, for many Democrats, has been an effect searching for a cause. Ukraine may have fit the bill perfectly, but anything else would have done just as well.

Read more:

Conservative Intellectuals Were Blind To The Truth About The Gop Hence Trump

The available evidence compiled by historians and political scientists suggests that 1964 really was a pivotal political moment, in exactly the way Roy describes.

Yet Republican intellectuals have long denied this, fabricating a revisionist history in which Republicans were and always have been the party of civil rights. In 2012, ran a lengthy cover story arguing that the standard history recounted by Roy was popular but indefensible.

This revisionism, according to Roy, points to a much bigger conservative delusion: They cannot admit that their partys voters are motivated far more by white identity politics than by conservative ideals.

Conservative intellectuals, and conservative politicians, have been in kind of a bubble, Roy says. Weve had this view that the voters were with us on conservatism philosophical, economic conservatism. In reality, the gravitational center of the Republican Party is white nationalism.

Conservative intellectuals, for the most part, are horrified by racism. When they talk about believing in individual rights and equality, they really mean it. Because the Republican Party is the vehicle through which their ideas can be implemented, they need to believe that the party isnt racist.

Its the power of wishful thinking. None of us want to accept that opposition to civil rights is the legacy that weve inherited, Roy says.

Beneath The Hood Of Trump’s Support Base

Trump’s victory in 2016 came on the back of a surge in voter turnout among white Americans without a college degree, a group he won by better than a 2-1 margin over Democrat Hillary Clinton. Trump won 6.5 million more voters over the age of 45, despite losing the national popular vote by almost three million.

But that “demographic blowback” which saw some older Americans cast a vote for the first time since Ronald Reagan was on the ballot, was never a long-term strategy they are literally dying off.

But they aren’t dead yet, and neither is Trump’s support base.

AP: Julio Cortez

A found 89 per cent of voters without a college degree and 74 per cent of Republicans want Trump to stay active in politics in some way. Almost half of Republicans want Trump to remain head of their party, while 11 per cent want him to break away and start his own party. It’s that final figure that probably worries Republicans more than any other.

Trump has already flirted with the idea of starting his own “Patriot Party” to rival both Republicans and Democrats, and provide a vehicle for a potential third presidential campaign in 2024.

The only time a former president tried to return to office under the banner of a new party, Theodore Roosevelt in 1912, he consigned his former Republican Party to a distant third place.

‘this Is Not A Political Campaign This Is Deadly Serious’: Cheney Speaks After Jan 6 Committee

Those Republicans were not in the room. House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., and his fellow GOP leaders decided not to appoint members to the select committee investigating the riot. They will neither defend nor condemn the Capitol riot in the historical annals of the Congressional Record.

They have chosen official silence refusing to defend the indefensible while signaling tacit and docile support for former President Donald Trump and the rioters who stormed the Capitol in his name.

Former Rep. David Jolly, who left the GOP in 2018, said the Republican leadership is trying to divert public attention away from the hearings.

“The committee is set up to get to the truth about Jan. 6,” Jolly said. “Republican opposition to its work is clearly an effort to obstruct that truth from reaching voters.”

Still, by threatening to punish fellow Republicans Liz Cheney of Wyoming and Kinzinger, McCarthy has made clear to Americans that in his House Republican Conference, it is better to back a riot than to buck Trump.

Choosing not to send Republican allies to sit on the committee McCarthy opted to abstain after Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., rejected two of his picks because they have spread lies about the riot may be an act of political cowardice. But it is certainly a political miscalculation.

We may have our deep differences on other policy issues,” Kinzinger said. “But we are all Americans today.

The Social Media Effect

Social media platforms provide us a personalized way to receive news and commentary from anyone and everyone with whom we are connected. In theory, this could mean that users see a cross section of their community’s political views, representing the full range of perspectives within their network. Unfortunately, our study’s findings paint a less encouraging picture. First, only 26% of American report sharing social media posts about politics. Second, these Americans have higher Perception Gaps than the national average. While those who do not post on social media have an average Perception Gap of 18, those who do post on social media have an average Perception Gap of 29. The political content we see on social media is therefore disproportionately from people with a more distorted understanding of the other side, further adding to the problem.

The Partys Core Activists Dont Want To Shift Gears

This is the simplest and most obvious explanation: The GOP isnt changing directions because the people driving the car dont want to. 

When we think of Republicans, we tend to think of either rank-and-file GOP voters or the partys highest-profile elected officials, particularly its leaders in Congress. But in many ways, the partys direction is driven by a group between those two: conservative organizations like Club for Growth and the Heritage Foundation, GOP officials at the local and state level and right-wing media outlets. That segment of the party has been especially resistant to the GOP abandoning its current mix of tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations, opposition to expansions of programs that benefit the poor and an identity politics that centers white Americans and conservative Christians.

You could see the power and preferences of this group in the response to the Capitol insurrection.

In the days immediately following Jan. 6, many GOP elected officials, most notably McConnell, signaled that the party should make a permanent break from Trump. an increased number of rank-and-file GOP voters were dissatisfied with the outgoing president. But by the time the Senate held its trial over Trumps actions a month later, it was clear that the party was basically back in line with Trump. 

related:Why Being Anti-Media Is Now Part Of The GOP Identity Read more. »

Sen Mazie Hirono Wonders How Some Republicans Live With Themselves

Even after being elected to the Senate in 2012, the Hawaii Democrat Mazie Hirono was, by her own choosing, a politician little known outside her home state. Then, around 2016 and the election of a particularly divisive president, Hirono, who was born in Japan and is the Senates only immigrant, decided that staying under the radar was unsustainable. She frequently made herself available to the national media. She publicly said President Trump was a misogynist and a liar and called for his resignation . She unabashedly punctuated her comments with salty language. And it wasnt just her unexpected transition that raised her profile: Senator Hironos forceful questioning during the Kavanaugh and Barrett Supreme Court confirmation hearings, as well as, more recently, calling on President Biden to nominate more diverse people for senior positions in his administration, have also been central to her earning national stature. Its not the easiest thing for political people to speak candidly with the national media, says Senator Hirono, who is 73 and whose memoir, Heart of Fire, will be published on April 20. Im not doing it for effect. I dont go out there and spew things. Ive thought things through.

Garland said that to you about the Garza case? No, I said that to Garland. He just kind of looked at me like, Yeah. I knew that he was astounded.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity from two conversations.

Republicans Are Trying To Rebrand Themselves As Working Class Heroes

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About a week after he was busted for taking a trip to Cancun amid a historic power crisis in his home state, Ted Cruz made a bold declaration: The Republican Party is not the party of the country clubs, he . Its the party of hardworking, blue-collar men and women. The GOP, he claimed at the yearly jamboree of right-wing nutjobs last week, was not a party for the mostly rich, mostly white men who represent it in Washington. On the contrary, he the Conservative Political Action Conference, where the cost of admission ranged from the mid-hundreds of dollars to , Republicans are the party of steel workers and construction workers and taxi drivers and cops and firefighters and waitresses.

These deplorables, the Texas Senator told big ticket CPAC attendees in February, are here to stay.

This characterization, of course, is ridiculous on its face; how can you claim your party is not the party of country clubs when its deified leader, Donald Trump, literally in a private club he owns. But its an aggressive branding exercise that Republicans have engaged in throughout the Trump years, and that they appear to be ramping up since he was defeated by Joe Biden in November, when the insurrectionist Senator Josh Hawley wrote that we are a working class party now.

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Making The Audience Laugh And Cry

It has become a cliché to declare that Republicans and Democrats live in two different worlds these days, but it turns out there is some truth to the observation.

New research on political behavior finds that most Democratic and Republican voters live in partisan bubbles, with little daily exposure to those who belong to the other party. For instance the typical Democrat has almost zero interactions with Republicans in their neighborhood, according to an by Harvard doctoral student Jacob R. Brown and government Professor Ryan D. Enos published March 8 in the journal Nature Human Behaviour.

Theres a lot of evidence that any separation between groups has a lot of negative consequences. We see this in race; we see this in religion; we see this in all kinds of things, said Enos. And increasingly, we see this in partisanship in the United States.

Using geolocation data and the exact addresses of all 180 million registered voters in the U.S. as of June 2018, the two were able to precisely map, for the first time, where Democrats and Republicans live in relation to each other in every town, city, and state in the U.S. Then, rather than rely on the usual precinct or data aggregations, they used weighted measures and recorded the distance between voters to show how people are divided by geography and partisanship across the country.

The measurement of partisan sorting for 180 million voters,

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It certainly might.

And I wouldnt necessarily buy anybody who was selling that. But there are without question people in the administration who fit that criteriapeople who I know for a fact are just deeply disturbred by the president and his behavior, and some of his demagoguery, but feel as though walking away as a sign of protest would be counterproductive. Because the president needs people around him who are stable influences to help steer the ship. And if they were to walk away, maybe the ship sinks.

Theres a bit of a scarlet letter that almost everyone in the Republican party is going to wear.

The president is not oblivious to the fact that this administration is staffed with an awful lot of people who said some really nasty things about him during the campaign. Its not lost on Trump that he has a lot of staff members who were not fans of him once and probably not fans of him today. Look, if Trump was only to staff his White House with people who had never said a negative thing about him, he would be really hard-pressed to find anybody. His takeover of the Republican party was a hostile takeover.

Your book describes the Republican party in collapse. As far as establishment Republicans in DC are concerned, then, is the Trump takeover permanent?

They did this to themselves. And its way too easy ten years from now to lay it all on Trump. Theyre the ones who invited Trump in the first place.

Former Republican Voter After Capitol Riot: ‘i Want No Association With This Party Anymore’

Like so many Republicans, Im sick and tired of talking about saving a party that shows few signs of wanting redemption, which makes it increasingly hard to hold on to the tattered remnants of a once-proud party. Indeed, since the insurrection more than 30,000 Republican voters have dropped their affiliation with the GOP, with many echoing the words of former Secretary of State Colin Powell, I can no longer call myself a fellow Republican.

Despite my own pessimisms about the Grand Old Party, I believe its salvation can still be found in our guiding principles, which do not include putting kids in cages, spewing lies and conspiracies and fermenting deadly insurrections. For those Republicans who remain behind, its time to refocus on what it means to be a Republican. While former President Donald Trump spent four years trying to reshape as much of the Republican Party into his image as possible and, failing that, setting the rest on fire, I agree with Rep. Adam Kinzinger, R-Ill., who said, There is a real split for the future of the party, and that epic battle has commenced. Bring it on!

My fellow Republicans must stop playing stupid.

The Religious Right Traded Morals For Supreme Court Seats Was Trump Worth It

Succumbing to the worst tendencies of ones party isnt new or unprecedented; weve been here before. Moral crises have repeatedly tested the will of our great nation. This country has battled through the dark days of slavery, segregation, McCarthyism and Watergate, and still we stand. Not because of magic pixie dust but thanks to brave patriots, willing to take unpopular yet principled stands because our social contract demands it.

And America has always managed to find its way back from the brink because of our ability to come together, in search of a shared purpose, when we as a country need it the most. We are edging toward a brink now, not of violence necessarily but certainly of near-intractable partisanship. Just look at the differing ways the impeachment inquiry is being covered. I may be foolish, but I still believe in our shared purpose. I still believe that, in spite of those who have turned their back on our motto, e pluribus unum, principled conservatives will find their way back home.

From Pig Hunting To Tea Party Meetings Former Npr Ceo Ken Stern Immersed Himself In Conservative Culture

Ken Stern did not expect to enjoy pig hunting in Texas.

As the former head of NPR, he did not expect to find common ground with the people of evangelical churches or eastern Kentucky coal mines. And he did not expect to renounce his Democratic membership.  

But after a year immersed in Republican culture, Stern learned life on the other side of the political divide is far from how it’s depicted a problem he pins on a polarized media landscape, and the very institutions he formerly called home.

‘Virtually everyone in the mainstream media is on one side of the political landscape and not the other.’ – Ken Stern

Widest Perception Gap At Political Extremes

In one of the largest national studies of Americas polarization ever conducted, More in Commons Hidden Tribes report identified seven political tribes:

The Hidden Tribes of America

The Perception Gap study builds on these insights. It finds that the most partisan, politically active Americans a group we call the Wings have deeply distorted perceptions of the other side. The two groups with the widest Perception Gaps are the Progressive Activists and the Devoted Conservativesthe most ideological and committed groups of Democrats and Republicans.

And which is the most accurate segment? Surprisingly, its the Politically Disengaged. They are fully three times more accurate in their estimates of political opponents than members of either of these Wing groups. The V-shaped Perception Gap shows that the less invested you are in politics today, the less distorted your perception of politics.

The Party Of The Country Club Tries To Embrace A New Egalitarian Economic Agenda

ILLUSTRATION BY AESTHETIC APPARATUS/MICHAEL BYZEWSKI

We are a working-class party now, Missouri Republican Senator Josh Hawley tweeted at 10:53 p.m. Eastern time on election night in November. Thats the future. A few minutes later, Fox called Arizona for Joe Biden, beginning a string of for Donald Trump and pointing toward a future quite different than the one Hawley had probably imagined when he posted. Hawley arrived in the Senate two years into the Trump era, and since then has pitched an agenda built around the concerns of the common man and woman. Sympathizing with cultural grievances, as Hawley does in fighting internet pornography, is something at which Republicans have been skilled for decades. Addressing the economic disadvantages of the less-well-off has been a blind spot. While Hawley himself has resisted mandatory increases in the minimum wage, his political world has been heating up recently, and it is changing his politics. When he announced in December that he planned to challenge the electoral-vote tally in the Senate, a rogue Walmart social media staffer attacked him as a sore loser via the companys Twitter account. The company promptly apologized, but not before Hawley suggested to Walmart, maybe youd like to apologize for the pathetic wages you pay your workers as you drive mom and pop stores out of business.

Christopher Caldwell is a contributing editor at The Claremont Review of Books.

[marshmallow-the-vampire-slayer]

MTVS Epic Rewatch #177

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BTVS 6x22 Grave

Stray thoughts

1) Okay, where had we left off?

Oh, right, right, Ripper is back!

2) “Daddy’s home! I’m in wicked trouble now!” I’ve always thought the way Dark!Willow delivered this line hinted at a different meaning of “Daddy,” if you know what I’m saying…

3) 

WILLOW: But, hey, if you'd like to watch... I mean, that's what you Watchers are good at, right? Watching? Butting in on things that don't concern you? GILES: You concern me, Willow. Stay on this path and you'll wind up dead.

Okay, let me preface this by saying that, like probably everyone else in the fandom, I legit cheered when Giles showed up and took Dark!Willow down. And let me follow that by saying that if you’ve been reading my recaps/meta, I’m about to get just a tad bit repetitive. As awesome as Giles’s arrival was, I can’t help but feel it was too little, too late.  If there was one person who could’ve predicted – and who I fear actually knew – the path down which Willow was headed, it was without doubt Giles. Let’s not forget that Giles had been a rebellious teen himself who had found power in magic. He, too, had thought he was almighty and that he was in control of magic, not the other way around. We all remember where that got him (2x08 The Dark Age.) And I know what you’ll say: he wasn’t Willow’s father nor her watcher. Pardon my French, but that’s a bunch of bullshit. The fact that he wasn’t Willow’s father nor his watcher does not excuse the fact that he stood idly by as a responsible and experienced adult witnessing how a teenager was in over her head with magic. The fact is, Giles acted irresponsibly and carelessly. He knew. And yet, from season 2/3 till season 5, all he did was either sternly frown or mildly warn Willow of how dangerous the magic she was dealing with was. Come season 6, and yes, I cheered when he scolded her in Flooded. Yet, I can’t help but feel this was, again, too little, too late. A good old scolding is hardly a deterrent for a witch intoxicated with the power of magic. If anything, it’s the opposite. Moreover, Giles found himself speechless at Willow’s not-so-subtle threats. I can admit that, in spite of how similar his own experience was to Willow’s, he might have been ill-prepared to tutor her or guide her in the right path (but then again, he does end up doing exactly that in season 7, so there really wasn’t any reason for him not to do it before she went dark…) If that was the case, then Flooded was probably the moment he should’ve gone to the Council or the Coven or whoever was better prepared to help her. That is, he should’ve done it when he first saw signs of Willow’s darkness. Not when she had already gone over the edge. So, as much as I’ll always see his return in Two to Go as a moment of awesome, I can’t help but feel he failed Willow. Rant over. (but will be resumed, you’ve been warned...)

4) And this is also a moment of awesome…

5) Of course, it doesn’t last long…

6)  This moment is so sweet… 

BUFFY: What did you do? GILES: Contained her and her powers within a binding field. It puts her in a kind of... stasis for the time... You cut your hair.

Damn, I will end up giffing this entire episode, won’t I?

7)

GILES: Buffy, what's happened here? BUFFY: God. I don't even know where to start. GILES: Well, Willow's clearly been abusing the magicks.

But you already knew this, dude!!!! The day you left she had erased everyone’s memories, for fuck’s sake! It was as much of a problem then as it was now!

8) Back me up, shouldn’t this be written on the season 6 DVD back cover?

BUFFY: [Willow] was [abusing magic]... and I barely even noticed. (...) Xander left Anya at the altar, and Anya's a vengeance demon again... Dawn's a total klepto... money's been so tight that I've been slinging burgers at the Doublemeat Palace ... And I've been sleeping with Spike.

All written on this screenshot, of course.

Yes, it’s a super dark season, and everyone screws up and suffers and it’s all #pain, but when you condense it all like this, it’s so outrageously funny, isn’t it?

9) 

WILLOW: I need you, Anya. I need you to do something for me.

ANYA: I know what you're trying to do. And I hate to burst your bubble, but that mind control mojo doesn't work on vengeance demons, so why don't you just- WILLOW: Stop talking and listen. ANYA: Okay.

10) 

GILES Can you forgive me? BUFFY: For what? GILES: I should never have left. BUFFY: No. You were right to leave. We're just... stupid. GILES: I know you're all stupid. I should never have abandoned you.

 No, no, you really shouldn’t have, Rupert.

11) 

GILES: Sometimes the most adult thing you can do is... ask for help when you need it.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING, GILES?!!! WHAT WAS ALL OF THIS, THEN, IF NOT BUFFY ASKING YOU TO HELP HER?!!!!

6x04 Flooded

BUFFY: I'm glad you're back. GILES: Well, I'm glad you are too.

6x05 Life Serial

BUFFY: This is, this is great. This is more than great. I don't... really know how to say this... but it's a little like having Mom back.

6x07 Once More With Feeling

BUFFY: Oh. I thought you took care of that. GILES: Right. BUFFY:  What would I do without you?

6x08 Tabula Rasa

GILES: You have to be strong. I'm, I'm trying to- BUFFY: Trying to, to what?  Desert me? Abandon me? Leave me all alone when I really need somebody? GILES: I don't want to leave- BUFFY: So don't. Please don't. I can't do this without you. (...) So I won't! No giving up. You can be here, and I can still be strong.

Like, I get that it all sounds so wise and beautiful in the dawn of their reunion, but it seems as though the writers totally forgot the way Giles acted prior to his leaving. Buffy did ask for help in absolutely unequivocal terms. And Giles deliberately refused it. So it’s all fine and dandy with him being back and them laughing it all off. But the crux of the matter is Buffy needed him and he wasn’t there. What’s worse, he comes back and tells her: “you should’ve asked me to stay and help you.” Are you for real, dude?

12) 

BUFFY:  Part of me. I just... I don't understand... why I'm back. GILES: You have a calling. BUFFY: But it was my time, Giles. Someone would have taken my place. So why?

Someone had already taken her place, but for whatever reason (the reason being she’s the title character...) Buffy continued to be the “official” slayer. I get that they were most likely setting up the arc for season 7, with the question of why she was back (a question that she quite conveniently hadn’t asked herself until the season finale...) but can we please remember that the Slayer line runs through Faith now? 

13) Oh, look, Puppet Anya! 

Also, is this where Taylor Swift got her inspiration for Look What You Made Me Do?

[this]

14) Why are they still walking?

Like, I get that it wouldn’t make a difference, either way, considering Willow can teleport at will, but idk, I feel I’d still want to put as much distance as humanly possible between the person who wants to murder me and my precious self.

15) Oh, Xander, your pettiness is showing…

DAWN: Where are we going?

XANDER: I have no idea. DAWN: What? XANDER: I don't know, okay? I can't even run away well. And that's something I'm usually good at. DAWN: Maybe we should we go back and help. XANDER: Yeah, 'cause I've been such a big help already. Standing around like a monkey while Buffy gets shot. Tara's dead... and Willow... losing... DAWN: Well, feeling sorry for yourself isn't helping either, Xander, okay? You know, if Spike were here, he'd go back and fight.

XANDER: Sure, if he wasn't too busy trying to rape your sister.

DAWN: What?!

XANDER: Forget it.

DAWN: I don't believe you. XANDER: Fine. DAWN:  He wouldn't do that.

XANDER: Is this blind spot like a genetic trait with the Summers women? The only useful thing Spike ever did was finally leave town.

There are a number of reasons why I find Xander’s behavior problematic here. First and foremost, this was Buffy’s traumatic experience to tell, especially where her little sister is concerned. Buffy’s. No one else’s. Okay? Second of all, it’s easy to tell he’s only saying this to A) make himself look good compared to a would-be-rapist, which is setting the bar very, very low, Xan-Xan. B) destroying Dawn’s idealization of Spike (which I think was definitely needed, just not in this way.) Thirdly, he drops this hell of a bomb to a 15-year-old, btw, just because he’s being petty and then he’s all like “forget it.” And it’s easy to tell he’s talking to Dawn as if she were an equal to him and Buffy, which she is not. She is a 15-year-old! Why did he think he had any right to be discussing - with Dawn of all people! - what had happened to Buffy without her consent and, more importantly, in those terms?

16) Meanwhile… 

I’ve never found creepy-crawlers this sexy, tbh.

But as regards the plot, the writers were definitely trying to throw us off. Like, it has always puzzled me how there are people who still believe Spike was there to get his chip out and then the soul thing just happened to him. Granted, the lines seem to be hinting at that, and James’s delivery every time Spike refers to Buffy is full of spite and resentment. And it was definitely all written in a way that would lead us to believe he wanted the demons to get his chip out. But, like, that’s what a plot twist is? Literally? You think the plot is going one way, and then, boom, it goes in another way. And if you reread all of his lines knowing that he was actually there to get his soul back, it makes even more sense. Still, the fact that people still believe Spike was there to get rid of his chip is completely perplexing to me. But more on that later. 

17) 

WILLOW: Boy, you just don't get it, do you? Nothing can hurt me now. This? ...is nothing. It's all... nothing.

GILES: I see. If you lose someone you love... the other people in your life who care about you... become meaningless. I wonder what Tara would say about that.

OOOOH BURN!!!

18) How sad is it that Buffy left to save Dawn knowing that she was most likely leaving Giles to die?

19) Giles kind of hit Willow with his horrible breath, didn’t he?

20) Ok, so this… 

…was his plan all along. But like, he was banking on a lot of things going his way to make this work, right? Like, how did he know that when given the chance, Willow wouldn’t kill him before even considering taking his powers? And even if she did take his powers, how could he be sure she would react to those feelings with compassion? (which she didn’t…)

21) This moment, though. Alyson just kills it.

WILLOW: Wow. Whoa. Who's your supplier? This is... wow. It's incredible. I mean, I am so juiced... Giles, it's like... no... mortal person has... ever had... this much power. Ever. It's like I, I'm connected to everything... I can feel... it feels like... I... I can feel...

WILLOW: ...everyone. Oh. Oh my God. All the emotion. All the pain. No, it, it's too much. It's just too much.

22) Oh, Jonathan, what happened to “we will do our time”? 

I get it, they had served their purpose from a plot point of view. They were merely a device to pit the main characters against each other.

23) 

GILES: I know where Willow is. She's going to finish it. ANYA: Finish what? GILES: The world.

24) I love how subtle Dawn is about bringing up the whole Spike thing…

DAWN: This looks a little like Spike's place. You know, under his crypt. What are you doing?

BUFFY: If we can pull these out, we can use the coffins for height. Maybe get out of here!

DAWN: Maybe one of the tunnels Spike uses is around here. Uh, we could use it to get to his place.

25) Dawn, you’re damn right. 

BUFFY: That's the last place on Earth we need to be. DAWN:  Oh, but it was good enough for you to take me there after what he did to you.

BUFFY: What he... DAWN: Tried to do. Whatever. BUFFY: Xander. DAWN: So it's true? BUFFY: Dawn, you may not have noticed, we're in really big trouble here. This isn't- DAWN: Why did you not tell me? BUFFY: Because you didn't need to know. DAWN: Yes, I do. I need to know! I'm not a kid anymore. BUFFY: Dawn, I'm trying to protect you. DAWN: Well, you can't! Look around, Buffy. We're trapped in here! Willow's killing and people I love keep dying! And you cannot protect me from that.

26) How was it day already?

TV show daytime savings, I guess.

27) 

BUFFY: There's... no temple on Kingman's Bluff.

Well, there is now…

28) 

ANYA Something else Giles said. No magic or supernatural force can stop her. BUFFY: What does that mean? ANYA: Don't know. He, he said, "the Slayer can't stop her," and then he said a bunch of other stuff.

Get it? This is the other reason why Buffy couldn’t have been the one to stop Willow just by talking to her. It just had to be someone else, someone human. But not just anyone...

29) I don’t know why I get so emotional with this moment. Seriously. Tears in my eyes, you guys.

BUFFY: They just keep coming. I can't take them all.  Dawn. Will you help me?

DAWN: I got your back.

30) Anya always telling it like it is…

ANYA: Giles? Giles! Don't die. Not yet, there-there are things I wanna tell you. Thanks a lot for coming. It was good of you to teleport all this way. Though in retrospect, it probably would have been better if you hadn't come and given Willow all that magic that made her like ten times more powerful. That would have been a plus.

31) And then, the final confrontation… (I’m crying already…)

You see, she attacks Xander just once, and she instantly flinches with regret and pain. But more on this later…

32) Yet another moment of awesome…

DAWN: What? You think I never watched you?

33) So, let me share some of the highlights of Xander’s and Willow’s confrontation and then – after I’m done crying my heart out – I’ll offer some of my thoughts…

WILLOW: You can't stop this. XANDER: Yeah, I get that. It's just, where else am I gonna go? You've been my best friend my whole life. World gonna end... where else would I want to be? WILLOW: Is this the master plan? You're going to stop me by telling me you love me? XANDER: Well, I was going to walk you off a cliff and hand you an anvil, but... it seemed kinda cartoony. WILLOW: Still making jokes. XANDER: I'm not joking. I know you're in pain. I can't imagine the pain you're in. And I know you're about to do something apocalyptically evil and stupid, and hey. I still want to hang. You're Willow. WILLOW: Don't call me that. XANDER: First day of kindergarten. You cried because you broke the yellow crayon, and you were too afraid to tell anyone. You've come pretty far, ending the world, not a terrific notion. But the thing is? Yeah. I love you. I loved crayon-breaky Willow and I love ... scary veiny Willow. So if I'm going out, it's here. If you wanna kill the world? Well, then start with me. I've earned that. WILLOW: You think I won't? XANDER: It doesn't matter. I'll still love you. WILLOW: Shut up.

XANDER: I love you.  I... love y-

WILLOW: Shut up!!

XANDER: I love you, Willow. WILLOW: Stop!

XANDER: I love you. WILLOW: Stop.

XANDER: I love you.

You see, this moment felt earned. This was a moment six seasons in the making. It just had to be Xander. There was no way around it. He was the only one who could get to her and break her defenses. He was probably the only one who could console her in the dawn of Tara’s death. The first interaction both of them had in the show was with each other. Long before Buffy, before vampires and hellmouths and werewolves and gay love and vengeance demons and magic and apocalypses, there were Willow and Xander, Xander and Willow. It is incredibly fitting, then, that come the end of either of them, the other should be right there by their side. I’m not diminishing Buffy and Willow’s friendship in any way. But Xander was the one who truly knew Willow best, and vice-versa. They knew each other since they were kids, and they were each other’s friends when probably no one else wanted to be. So the reason this moment feels so earned and overwhelmingly moving is because of the history. It’s the history we’ve witnessed since season 1, and the one prior to that, which we’ve been told and also pieced together. This moment has such a huge impact only because of the history between these two characters. Her love for her first and closest friend was the last spark of humanity left in her, you see?   Friendship love is the best kind of love. I’m so emotional right now.

34) Can you blame Dawn for asking this question, though?

DAWN: Wait, is... is that happy crying? BUFFY: Yes, dummy. You think I wanted the world to end? DAWN: I don't know. Didn't you?

35) 

BUFFY: Things have really sucked lately, but it's all gonna change. And I wanna be there when it does. I want to see my friends happy again. And I want to see you grow up. The woman you're gonna become. Because she's gonna be beautiful. And she's going to be powerful. I got it so wrong. I don't want to protect you from the world. I want to show it to you.

 And it also feels fitting that Buffy is finally overcoming her depression with the person who was the very reason she decided not to jump off the tower again at the beginning of the season.

36) But it’s not over yet… (and this is why I think it should be perfectly clear that Spike was in fact after his soul...)

DEMON VOICE: You have endured the required trials. SPIKE: Bloody right I have. So you'll give me what I want. Make me what I was. So Buffy can get what she deserves.

DEMON: Very well. We will return...your soul.

DUN-DUN-DUNNNNNNN!

37) All in all, a great season finale unlike any of the others. And a pretty hopeful end to a rather dark season.