#so many bylers are acting like hes not doing this ive seen like two people talk about it | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

castlebyersafterdark · 2 months ago

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i think youre right about the bi/gay debate (sorry to bring it to you... im not bringing it in a Im New Here way, but rather an I've been here a while and youre someone i feel safe asking about this, sort of like sitting down at a kindly hot gay wizard's knee and asking for wisdom way hehe.)

HOLY HECK i did not even see the slideshow length, 300?! i know we celebrate the boys here, but when youre compiling like that it starts to feel like compensating for something. and you're right - so far (im about halfway through) ive been asking myself things like 'but why does that make mike bi?' on every other slide. theyre detailing the plot of s4 from mike's pov; things that all bylers agree on, gay and bi truther alike. none of it so far is evidence for bi mike. at one point they say 'theyre not compatible in a romantic relationship, but mike likes kissing her as we can see here...' and this is what has me respectfully yelling HOW CAN WE SEE THIS PLEASE because so much of these discourses is about opinion and subjective interpretation. im about to sound like a nerd: it really makes me miss school. and uni. and debate club. and seminars. with actual discussion and evidence. hell, i even miss english class and writing essays. make a point. provide evidence. follow up with explanation. the teachers actually called it P.E.E.

PEE. amazing.

but youre right, because its ok for everyone to have their interpretations, especially as the show is unfinished! maybe im just endlessly confused by people's need to justify and be right. what is gained? i think i expected too much from the fandom lol, i expected academia. i feel like i get that open-mindedness from some places though, and from you (plus many other treats heh heh). i think i would love to have had you in my uni classes, vinny! youre so interesting and kind.

and im endlessly interested in the sexual attraction vs. love thing, because ive definitely seen people say that sexual attraction isnt needed. aromantic gay folk, etc... i must be honest and say it gets beyond my understanding and i cant form an opinion on that

footnote 1: im gonna finish the slideshow because today i was reading about the Sunk Cost Fallacy and want to be masochistic (only 150 slides left! its ok though, the vast majority are screenshots of the show itself that illustrate... nothing lol)

Hope you two anons don't mind a little three-way action combining this conversation 🤭 just so my blog isn't dominated by this topic with redundant points! I totally don't mind the topic if it's open and friendly and analytical rather than fighty. All good here. Under a cut since this is long and if people want to skip this topic:

"sitting down at a kindly hot gay wizard's knee and asking for wisdom" - Firstly, love that, obsessed with you. And YEAH the number of slides made me irl do that slow blink meme gif, we know the one. I wasn't very compelled. Am I too staunch and biased? It's not that "oh this character must be gay because I'm gay and like Byler" - no? A lot of people like Byler and aren't gay at all. I've been in fandom culture a long time and don't need to project. I just see what I see. I've shipped many things where I knew the characters weren't queer but I liked the idea. This is the first time in a long time that I feel the shipping and analysis collide and can actually be one in the same, a fandom rarity in my opinion and taste in media.

Anyway. A lot of the points for bi Mike overall from many sources of discussion never strike me as evidence he's bi. They could so often go both ways (HA SORRY) to bi vs gay points. And then the gay points tip the scales. So much of the argument is subjective, for sure. But there is coding and hints and arcs that lend solid evidence. His LACK of attraction to women just feels so clear to me when we have soooo much of that with the other male characters? He just acts differently, abrasive to certain concepts. And his relationship with El is a mess. I will feel so odd if we've all analyzed that wrong. All the points about Mike's weird expressions, his awkward physicality with her as opposed to Will, never really seeming all too enthused. It's almost looks like panic sometimes. A lot of what he says that's read as romantic feels like a performance for other people around - MIKE is the one overcompensating here, truly. His defeated facial expression before he says he loved El in the monologue is such a giveaway to me. He's about to lie for his life and hers.

This is what I mean by life and death. Guilt over his new friend dying for them season 1. Anger at Hopper hiding her while he missed her and felt guilt over what happened. Season three conformity and puberty confusion arc, getting mixed up from growing up and trying to be normal. The excitement that yes, I can be normal, this girl likes me. Changing his personality to fit, and overcompensating for not knowing the difference between platonic and romantic feelings for this girl - he struggled with the platonic because he feels he can't have that so his relationship is messy and too physical, not emotional. His mind and body and heart are all at odds. He and El aren't really friends because they haven't had the time or allowed their relationship to be anything but this need to have it be romantic - El's issue, too, with not really engaging with society in a meaningful way. Rambling now. But it's not hard to see if we're paying attention. Haven't even touched on anything to do with his behavior in regards to men or Will - this is already too long.

I think a lot of people will continue to ship what they want regardless of the outcome and honestly - that's fine? What if the worst happens and Mike ends up with El? I will still be a hardcore Byler fanboy until Stranger Things is not a fandom I'm interested in engaging with. I don't really care. I'll forge my own reality through fanfic. I believe those who still want to engage with Mlvn will do so. I can understand why people choose to see Mike as bi. His sexuality isn't canon yet (as opposed to Robin and Will). It's what they're into and HC since we do not know 100%. I'm not so blinded and delusional to not admit that.

Creativity and analysis overall - to anon #1's point. Yes!!! Glad to be enrolled with you at Stranger Things university. I got my little notebook out, overly caffeinated but I'm there for class. I'm the annoying guy interjecting. But I feel like you'd be sitting next to me in lecture backing me up.

and im endlessly interested in the sexual attraction vs. love thing, because ive definitely seen people say that sexual attraction isnt needed. aromantic gay folk, etc… i must be honest and say it gets beyond my understanding and i cant form an opinion on that

I find it fascinating, too! Which is why I try to learn more and more and always try to consider different viewpoints. It's a broken record, but these orientations are totally valid and props to anyone finding what works, figuring themselves out. I don't think everyone is ever going to completely understand every aspect of human sexuality. I don't. I'm always learning. I'm gay and both a hopeless romantic and a guy with a high sex drive so maybe certain realities and lifestyles I don't fully understand the intricacies of - but that's ok. We don't have to walk an authentic mile in each other's shoes, but we do need to respect each other and leave room on the path!! 😁

And a secret 3rd anon appears!! You said please don't post so I won't. But thank you for filling me in on fandom lore. I didn't know all that!!! Yikes babes. I don't like those vibes!!! 🙃 But, that is not my energy, we're all chill and into fun and discussion here. We don't personally have to give weight to every character interpretation but we also don't have to get at each other and blatantly fight. I'm just vibing 😌❤️

#asks #queued

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zer0expektation · 2 years ago

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sometimes i think of an interesting fic concept for a fandom other than this one and think to myself, “gee, this is such a good and obvious concept, surely theres fics like this out there” or “ooh, this piece of media had enough dark elements, surely there has to be some good grimdark aus somewhere” and then i open ao3 and am forcibly reminded of the fact that the dream smp is the only fandom that isn’t obsessed with slash fics and i just have to wallow in the lack of nice content and my own inability to write (and, lets be honest here, commitment to most fandoms outside of the dsmp atm)

like genuinely, i dont think i can name a single fandom outside of the dream smp that has such a wide array of found family/friendship centered fics

stranger things? its all steddie or byler (as much as i love the both), etc.

my hero? its all bakudeku or tododeku or shindeku or literally everyone with deku.

detroit become human? its all hank and connor or connor and gavin or gavin and nines or markus and simon, etc.

our flag means death? its all co-captains (as much as i adore them as well) or steddy hands, etc.

the mcu? its all stucky or stony (or incest or selfcest lmao), etc.

sander sides? its all prinxiety or analogical or moralogical or lamp or lampd or whatever the new lamp plus janus and remus ship name is (yes more selfcest), etc.

gotham tv? its all nygmobblepot or jim and oswald or bruce and jeremiah (which i have so many questions about, but that is not the point of this post lmao)

etc etc

and i genuinely think its to a lot of these fandom’s detriments that everything has to be centered around a ship no matter what (esp mcu spiderman, pleASE GOD JUST GIVE ME GOOD POST NWH PETER PARKER ANGST THE CLOSEST THING IVE GOTTEN IS FUCKING SPIDERMAN!TOMMYINNIT AUS DO YOU SEE MY PROBLEM) because it really stops fandoms and fan-creators from really exploring the platonic and familial relationships between these characters and that exploration being in the main spotlight.

like sure, steddie is great, but i would love to read a big fic that is all about Steve and Robin moving away from hawkins together and navigating the city and sharing an apartment together and losing their shared jobs every week and continue to explore and establish new boundries and systems with each other and learning things the other never thought were important but brings such important insight into the other that they need to understand each other even better.

bylers cool, but i also want to read about will and el finally getting to meet each other and know each other and realise theyre so much more alike than they originally thought, never quite being seen as people, as the kids they are, but instead as these cool beacons of their friends’ efforts against the upside down and the government, and them becoming siblings, becoming the wonder twins, i want to see will trying to teach el how to draw, and el showing will all of her favorite tv shows, and the two becoming so intertwined that they know every preference the other has and how they can support each other through public school of a foreign town.

sure, bakudeku or tododeku’s okay, but i want to read a fic all about izuku growing up quirkless and what that means for his relationships and how much closer he is with his mom than other kids his age and how deep his mistrust of any other adults runs and what that means for how he acts once he finally gets to ua and how he sees all might as a surrogate father in place of the man that left him and his mother for the states and how that and his god worship of the man affects how he treats one for all and how he makes his decisions and how he prioritizes what all might tells him over what is actually good for him.

hank and connor is.. something, but why cant we read about how hank sees his son in connor and how it affects him to watch connor make these self destructive decisions in order to prioritize human life and his instructions over himself, and maybe about hank attempting to scare connor into deviancy, into some kind of self preservation, so that the poor thing can at least make a decision for himself and prioritize himself, and not die.

i love the co-captains as much as the next guy, but i want to read about how stede came across his crew, how he came to find out they like the children’s stories that he only held onto to remind him of his children, how he looked at lucius and saw himself in him, how lucius somehow managed to grab hold of every trait stede was bullied for, that was trained out of him, and emphases them and make them into a special kind of armor, and how stede takes lucius under his wing just to watch over him so that the boy will have someone on his side when he inevitably trips in his dance past (lets face it flirts and insults through) every hurtle that caught the heel of young stede’s shoe. how stede now will look up at that painting of a lighthouse and wonder if the problem wasnt that he wasnt a lighthouse, just that he hadn’t found the shore yet, and now maybe he has.

Do you see what I mean? How many fics are there that are like this that you can name off the top of your head? very few i imagine.

on top of this a lot of fandoms, because of their lack of exploration of non romantic relationships within their media dont only miss out on the sweet or bittersweet but the all fascinating grimdark aus that may spawn out of taking an absolute ship-less lens on the media you consume, i mean, the only fandom i can find any good or nuanced grimdark forced family fics in is, again, the dream smp.

and this has happened multiple times, where im watching something and i cant help but imagine how good a ctrinity style grimdark forced family au fic would be with these characters with these dynamics, btw.

(cw for all of the fun stuff that comes with forced family like kidnapping and implied abuse and characters overall being miserable lol - its not important to read, its just examples of dark aus im talking ab, just scroll to “etcetcetc” to skip past all that stuffs)

multiverse of madness, where instead of wanda trying to get to america and killing her in an attempt of getting her to make a portal to a universe where wanda’s boys exist going as far as it does, america offers herself up as her surrogate daughter and bringing the both of them through to them and living a normal life as a family in exchange for wanda to stop tearing places and people apart in this universe and others and for America’s life to be spared. and so she brings them both to a world with wanda’s boys, and wanda is just so so blinded by her own excitement and joy. she discards of that world’s wanda quickly, careful to ensure the boys were still asleep. then weeks, months maybe, go by and the boys start having nightmares but wont tell her why, what the nightmares are about, instead they wait until the door is closed and wanda’s down the hall to murmur in hushed tones about what they saw. (”shes not mommy, is she? mommy doesnt act like that. where did mommy go?”). america tries to pretend everythings fine and that theres nothing wrong with this twisted family dynamic wanda’s built up, but she cant truly hide its affect on her, the bags under her eyes are heavy and her fingers are always twitching, she flinches when wanda gestures with her arms to wildly and freezes when one of the boys accidentally breaks a glass. wanda doesnt stop using the darkhold. she could stop using whenever she wanted to, is what she tells herself, but she just needs to ensure no one is going to show up and take her boys away from her, she has to make sure america remains by her side, she has to make sure nothing goes wrong again. she can stop whenever she wants to, the thing is, she doesnt want to stop.

gotham tv (s4), where ra’s successfully kidnapps bruce and takes him and jeremiah under his wing, trying to raise them both to be like him, maybe barbra gets kidnapped aswell. ra’s wants them to act like a family, him as the father, barbra as the mom, and bruce, jeremiah, and talia as their children. at first this is all jeremiah could ask for. hes close with bruce, his need for simultaneous creation and destruction. a brother he didnt hate, and a present father. at first bruce is all angered yelling and venomous insults and scathing sarcasm. he comments on wanting to go home at every opportunity that presents itself, how he preferred alfreds cooking, he liked jim’s stories better, selina taught him cooler things, some days hed even complain about missing the criminals of gotham in an attempt to emphasis just how much he does not want to be here, no matter how cushy the bedding is or how nice the locals. at first all barbra does is attempt to kill, or at the very least injure, ra’s. some days its a steak knife to the gut, some a fountain pen to the face. ra’s is fine every time. hammer to temple. she doesnt buy time for herself, nor bruce. rope around the neck. she cant even injure him in any long term way. boiled water down the front. for a long time talia is jealous of the attention her father gives bruce and jeremiah. he spends long days trying to train the two in tandem, showing them how to protect themselves and how to injure others, how to tell the differences between the dead languages and how to read the basics, how to earn the trust of others and force them to fall into the trap of owing you favors. that is until she discovers how they all ended up here. shes left wondering if her father truly has the right of the world at heart, if she has to respect him and his decisions just because she is his only true daughter. jeremiah isnt having fun anymore. bruce has gone completely silent now. barbra has long since been subdued and doesnt even try to fight anymore. but talia stays quiet, even as the first time she hears bruces voice in months is when he yelps and tries to cover his face from being struck again, even as jeremiah mumbles to himself about someone named jerome, even as barbra spends her time staring whistfully into a bird bath when shes not cleaning or sitting pretty. (she tells talia, one quiet evening - a break from ra’s training bruce and jeremiah until they break, instead they’re allowed to curl up in a corner together and try to decipher books written in hundreds of dead languages - how she’d been engaged once. she wasnt happy, but she loved him nonetheless. she told her that she wondered sometimes how she would have turned out if she hadn’t left, if they got married. would’ve one of them left the other eventually anyways? would she have still ended up here? talia wishes she didnt talk to her, if only because it made staying quiet and continuing to live her life as a bystander harder.)

etcetcetc

unfortunately though, the dream smp (as far as ive seen) is the only fandom that explores family relationships and friendships so thoroughly and then delves deeper into more dark and upsetting aus (ive already said it once, but c!trinity!!) without there being a worry about weird romantic or sexual implications or plot points (which i partially blame killing stalking for the existence of - kidnappers arent hot pleeaaase)

some dsmp fics that i cant imagine being nearly as well done - or created at all - if they were written for different fandoms (all on ao3):

the dead dont dream by penink - ctommy dies during exile, multiple times actually, and dream thinks this is the perfect opportunity to test out the revive book

withered by ThatWeirdGuyInTheBush - Manburg is a real country in a world based on the 1940s, and ctubbo decides hes willing to do something drastic for the good of his country

guided evolution by fathermooshroom - ctommyinnit becomes spiderman, unfortunately being spiderman comes with all of the issues of being spiderman and having a secret identity (i cried uncontrollably multiple times dont let the beginning trick you)

If You Need Somewhere Safe by random_on_main - when ctommy finally escapes logstedshire he takes sam up on his offer of giving him a place to stay rather than hiding in techno’s basement

passerine by thcscus (blujamas) - everyones favorite legendary ctechnoblade gives a visit to an old friend and comes to find out hes a king and has two sons

tommyinnit’s clinic for supervillains by bonesandthebees (bonesandcacti) - tommyinnit is seriously just trying to get through life and happens upon a supervillain passed out and bleeding out in an alleyway on his way home from work one night

cataclysm by thanotaphobia - phil and techno finally conquer the country they’d been at war with for the past several years, but when they discover the lone king to the country is a teenage boy they take him as prisoner rather than killing him

the world forgetting by the world forgot by bonesandthebees (bonesandthecacti) - ctommy has forgotten his entire life, all he knows is that villains kiddnapped and used him for his healing powers, and the superhero dream took him in after rescuing him and allowed him to become his sidekick

its now 5 am, i only made this because i was thinking about that one video of someone talking about how weird it was that the top two relationship tags according to the stats ao3 released where gen (wilbur&tommy and wilbur&techno&tommy) and basically making it obvious they only thought the only reason you would write or read fanfiction would be for ships and slash fics and just,, how sad that is, because this fandom has some of the best fics ive read without even considering putting any romance in the spotlight and i think its far more fulfilling to be able to read fanfiction for the sake of a good story rather than getting to see two characters kiss (which is not to say reading fanfiction to see two character kiss isnt exactly what you need sometimes, im just saying theres more out there to love), and also because i was frustrated by the fact that nothing interesting looking came up when i looked up the tags ‘post series: no way home’ and ‘homeless peter parker’ lmao. if yall have any good post nwh angst pls pls pls send it my way, i need desperately to cry over a character that is not tommyinnit please. im gonna crash now, sorry if this long this is shit - its wayy too fucking early.

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