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aboveallarescuer · 4 years ago

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I know you've gotten anons about the YMBQ prophecy recently but I was wondering in what context could it be obvious for the reader that Daenerys is the YMBQ if Cersei is most likely to die or leave KL once Aegon arrives and not Daenerys. Even if Daenerys takes KL later on wouldn't he technically be the one to take all she holds dear (her power as regent)?

First of all, Anon, I think it’s interesting that you say that Young Griff (rather than Arianne) would take all that Cersei holds dear in this hypothetical scenario (that most people assume will come to pass). asoiaf tumblr fandom loved (loves?) to take for granted that Arianne would be YMBQ (after all, it was/is taken for granted that she would marry Young Griff and become his queen consort) years ago. At the same time, though, I’m not sure if you’re implying that Young Griff might actually be the one to fulfill the YMB(Q) prophecy in this ask. I actually saw this theory before. So I’m going to make counterarguments to this theory first and then address your question about how and when Dany might be revealed as the YMBQ (and if that’s what you were specifically looking for, just skip to the end, though you might be disappointed by the fact that I'm not really providing definitive answers because I have a lot of doubts myself).

In a way, it makes more sense for Young Griff to fulfill the prophecy rather than Arianne. Let’s remember what Cersei wants the most, which is shown in the beginning of her very first chapter:

She dreamt she sat the Iron Throne, high above them all. (AFFC Cersei I)

Unfortunately for Cersei, she can’t ever actually sit the Iron Throne, which is pointed out several times:

Cersei shifted in her seat as he went on, wondering how long she must endure his hectoring. Behind her loomed the Iron Throne, its barbs and blades throwing twisted shadows across the floor. Only the king or his Hand could sit upon the throne itself. Cersei sat by its foot, in a seat of gilded wood piled with crimson cushions. (AFFC Cersei V)

Seated on her gold-and-crimson high seat beneath the Iron Throne, Cersei could feel a growing tightness in her neck. (AFFC Cersei VII)

Cersei sat beneath the Iron Throne, clad in green silk and golden lace. (AFFC Cersei X)

As the first quote states, only the king or the Hand can sit the Iron Throne, which is what Cersei wants the most, since, to her, it symbolizes almost unlimited power ("high above them all"). Indeed, I would argue that what Cersei holds dear is the chance to reign supreme (“The rule was hers; Cersei did not mean to give it up until Tommen came of age. [...] If Margaery Tyrell thinks to cheat me of my hour in the sun, she had bloody well think again.”), not “her power as regent” (as you put it), which is limited by nature. After all, the king’s wife and mother can’t sit the Iron Throne. This means three things to me:

Queen consorts like Margaery or Arianne (if she actually marries Young Griff, which is far from certain) can’t take all that Cersei holds dear.

Queens claiming power in their own right but who have no claim to the Iron Throne are excluded too. In other words, Asha or QitN!Sansa (another fan theory that’s far from certain and that’s accepted as future canon) can’t take all that Cersei holds dear.

Only a she-king (that is, a queen regnant) with a claim to the Iron Throne can take all that Cersei holds dear - that’s Dany.

But then, we have Young Griff. He is a king with a claim to the Iron Throne, so he could, in theory, take what Cersei holds dear and fulfill the prophecy. However, I find that very unlikely for a number of reasons:

GRRM doesn’t highlight men’s physical appearances or objectify them in the same way that he does with women, as a lot of people have already criticized him for. He makes a point of mentioning women’s accomplishments along with overpraise for their physical appearances (though one might be generous and chalk that up to social commentary about how their society objectifies women instead of giving them their due praise for what they do). He encourages his fans to speculate about who is the YMB(Q) and pit his female characters against each other based on their physical appearances (e.g., people have criticized how Sansa stans often mention the number of times the word “beautiful” appears in Sansa’s chapters to back up their belief that she’s the YMB(Q), but the way GRRM himself wrote the prophecy lends itself to this sort of analysis) because he uses certain tropes uncritically. He portrays fat women negatively in comparison to thin women (see: Cersei (who’s said to be gaining weight throughout AFFC as she becomes more unstable) vs Dany, Lysa vs Cat, Barba Bracken vs Melissa Blackwood, arguably Rhaenyra vs Alicent). He takes an almost voyeuristic pleasure in describing women’s bodies and women having sex with women (see how Dany and Irri’s or Cersei and Taena’s sexual encounters don’t give any depth to Dany’s, Irri’s and Taena’s characters and, as far as I can tell, are mostly written to fetishize them). Consider, for instance, how 13- to 16-year-old Dany is the most sexualized character of the book series, while I’m not even sure if her male counterpart Jon is supposed to be considered attractive or not (on the one hand, he’s attracted women like Ygritte and Val; on the other hand, he’s meant to look a lot like Ned, who’s regarded as plain in appearance, especially in comparison to the hot-blooded Brandon). All of this is to say that I doubt that a man will fulfill a prophecy that remarks upon the person’s physical appearance (“younger and more beautiful”). Considering GRRM’s writing problems, a woman is much more likely to do so.

Young Griff is supposed to represent a lesser version of Dany (note that I’m talking about Young Griff as a fictional character, not as a person). After all, unlike Dany, Young Griff didn’t get to have lived experience of poverty, he didn’t get to have his skills tested, he didn’t get to apply the lessons he learned along the way, he didn’t get to take action and make mistakes and gain valuable experience and wisdom, he didn’t get to choose to stay in Slaver’s Bay solely to help marginalized people who aren’t connected to him by neither blood nor lands (which would emphasize how he doesn’t view his birthright merely as something owed to him, but rather as a means to “protect the ones who can’t protect themselves”). He could have had this sort of character development if GRRM wanted him to, but he has a different role in the narrative: he’s a tertiary character who we’re not meant to know all that much as a person or about how he would fare as king because he serves as a foil to Dany. With all of that in mind, what would be the point of having this minor character, who was introduced in the fifth book of a seven-book series, fulfill this prophecy rather than the one protagonist who the author said was deliberately written as Cersei’s foil multiple times (more on that below)?

Which brings me to a point that @rainhadaenerys made in our upcoming Dany/Cersei meta... Cersei views women with contempt because she thinks that they can only attain political influence with “tears” and with what’s “between [their] legs” (as she tells Sansa). This informs why, for example, she projects the unfounded idea that a widow must have lovers on Margaery or why she herself uses money and sex to keep her men loyal (which ultimately backfires on her). Unfortunately, it’s true that “[Cersei’s] strength relies on her beauty, birth and riches”. Because of her internalized misogyny, Cersei can’t conceive of a woman who might rise to power primarily because of her intelligence and shrewdness… Except that there is a woman who successfully conquered three cities and ruled the third and freed thousands of slaves relying primarily on her actual wit, political savviness and leadership skills rather than on sex, birthright or money… Dany. Dany is the competent, selfless ruler who could overcome many of the patriarchal limitations that Cersei couldn’t (hence why Cersei is a tragic figure). If Young Griff were to be the YMB(Q), he would simply be one of the many men (along with Robert, her brother, her father and the other Hands) who Cersei thinks wronged her and prevented her from staying in power. If Daenerys were to be the YMBQ, she would challenge Cersei’s toxic beliefs about women, which prevented Cersei from even imagining that a she-king might be the one foreshadowed to defeat her or that a woman (that isn’t her, of course) could actually be able to earn her accomplishments (just like she can’t imagine that Jaime might actually betray and kill her). Now, someone might argue that GRRM is not “woke” enough to do this, but I would disagree in this particular case. There are valid critiques to be made about how he wrote his female characters (I’ve made some points myself on the first item), but it’s still true that Dany’s character arc was written with awareness of how her gender affects her experiences. If that hadn’t been the case, AGOT wouldn’t have initially set up several men (Viserys, Rhaego, Drogo) to be claimant to the Iron Throne/SWMTW/the protagonist only to reveal that these roles are actually meant to be fulfilled by Dany, a woman. If that hadn’t been the case, he wouldn’t have had Maester Aemon acknowledge that “no one had ever looked for a girl” when they pondered on who might be AA/PTWP. So I don’t put it past GRRM to make Dany the YMBQ as a way of challenging Cersei’s entire worldview.

Indeed, I actually think that’s likely to be what he’ll write. GRRM has stated multiple times that Dany and Cersei are meant to be compared and contrasted because they were consciously written by him (specially in AFFC/ADWD) as narrative foils:

George regrets that Cersei and Dany will not be contrasted directly. (x)

His biggest lament in splitting A Feast for Crows from A Dance with Dragons is the parallels he was drawing between Circe and Daenerys. (x)

Cersei and Daenerys are intended as parallel characters --each exploring a different approach to how a woman would rule in a male dominated, medieval-inspired fantasy world. (x)

While discussing how he writes his female characters, he also mentioned that splitting the books as he did this time meant we didn't get the parallel between how Danaerys and Cersei both approach the task of leadership, which is a bit of a shame. (x)

And that one of the things he regrets losing from the POV split is that he was doing point and counterpoint with the Dany and Cersei scenes--showing how each was ruling in their turn. (x)

I think Young Griff as the YMB(Q) is very, very unlikely. If it’s not Dany, then I think Brienne (who at least is a viewpoint character that we know intimately) as the YMBQ (though I doubt it because she can only take Jaime away from Cersei and, as we saw in AFFC, Cersei was willing to separate herself from Jaime once she realized that he would question and disagree with her decisions and, in her mind, threaten her influence and power, i.e., what she wants the most) or even Cersei herself (the basis of this theory is that a younger Cersei caused her own downfall by making the choices she made. It’s not impossible considering that Cersei’s unreliable viewpoint prevents her from ever taking responsibility for her actions. Still, I think it’s unlikely because she’s been positioned as a passive participant in these prophecies - someone/some people kills her children, some person takes away everything she holds dear, some person murders her. Just like there’s a valonqar to kill Cersei, I think there’ll be a YMBQ to defeat her) are more plausible candidates. However, as I said in previous answers, Dany and Cersei have lots of clearly intended parallels and anti parallels (hence why GRRM mentioned them at least five times publicly) that people don’t often appreciate (but that I don’t want to mention here because I’m saving them for edits and that long meta). I find it hard to believe that GRRM would lay all this groundwork to contrast these two queens only to reveal that a minor character is the actual YMB(Q).

Now, the question about “in what context could it be obvious for the reader that Daenerys is the YMBQ” is difficult because, IMO, I don’t feel like there’s enough information to give you a reliable answer. First, let’s recap the most common theories, which, while I don’t think should be accepted as canon just yet, are popular for logical reasons. Here’s what GRRM said about the future events in the initial outline and interviews:

While the lion of Lannister and the direwolf of Stark snarl and scrap, however, a second and greater threat takes shape across the narrow sea, where the Dothraki horselords mass their barbarian hordes for a great invasion of the Seven Kingdoms, led by the fierce and beautiful Daenerys Stormborn, the last of the Targaryen dragonlords. The Dothraki invasion will be the central story of my second volume, A Dance with Dragons. (x)

GRRM: Yes, three more volumes remain. The series could almost be considered as two linked trilogies, although I tend to think of it more as one long story. The next book, A Dance With Dragons, will focus on the return of Daenerys Targaryen to Westeros, and the conflicts that creates. After that comes The Winds of Winter. I have been calling the final volume A Time For Wolves, but I am not happy with that title and will probably change it if I can come up with one that I like better. (x)

He said that in his original plan (when he wanted to write a trilogy) the Red Wedding would take place in book one, and Dany’s landing in Westeros in book two. Now he says that Dany’s arrival in Westeros will take place in book 5, A Dance with Dragons. (x)

From there he started to plan a trilogy, since there were 3 main conflicts (Starks/Lannisters; Dany; and the Others) it felt it would neatly fit into a trilogy (ah!), but like Tolkien said, the tale grew in the telling. (x)

“Well, Tyrion and Dany will intersect, in a way, but for much of the book they’re still apart,” he says. “They both have quite large roles to play here. Tyrion has decided that he actually would like to live, for one thing, which he wasn’t entirely sure of during the last book, and he’s now working toward that end—if he can survive the battle that’s breaking out all around him. And Dany has embraced her heritage as a Targaryen and embraced the Targaryen words. So they’re both coming home.” (x)

GRRM’s words seem to indicate that Dany will go to Dragonstone ("they're both coming home") and then King’s Landing in her campaign to take back the Seven Kingdoms before she goes to the Wall to fight against the Others.

And it is quite possible that she will clash with Young Griff. For one:

Hi, short question. Will we find out more about the Dance of the Dragons in future books?

The first dance or the second?

The second will be the subject of a book. The first will be mentioned from time to time, I'm sure. (x)

For two:

"It is dragons."

"Dragons?" said her mother. "Teora, don't be mad."

"I'm not. They're coming."

"How could you possibly know that?" her sister asked, with a note of scorn in her voice. "One of your little dreams?"

Teora gave a tiny nod, chin trembling. "They were dancing. In my dream. And everywhere the dragons danced the people died." (TWOW Arianne I)

For three:

Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire ... mother of dragons, slayer of lies … (ACOK Daenerys IV)

Now, here are my observations/questions/doubts:

The “cloth dragon” receiving a round of cheers from the crowd seems to indicate that a) Tommen will indeed fall from power when Young Griff (who’s already in Westeros almost ready to attack) invades King’s Landing and that b) Young Griff will inspire love from the population.

The more obvious possibility is that the second dance of dragons refers to a Dany versus Young Griff confrontation, especially since she’s prophesied to slay the lie that he represents (that he’s not Rhaegar Targaryen's son, but actually Illyrio’s son and a Blackfyre). However, since Victarion is currently in Meereen with a dragonbinder, it’s very likely that Dany will lose control of one of her dragons to a Greyjoy (either Victarion or Euron Greyjoy himself) and then will arrive in Westeros with only two of her three dragons. Or maybe Euron will use one of the dragons to attack Young Griff and that will be the second dance (though I find that unlikely since, again, Dany is prophesied to slay Young Griff’s lie). Or the second dance could actually refer to Dany versus Euron.

There are alternative speculations to consider. Right now, the consensus in the Dany fandom seems to be that there’s already too much in Dany’s plate for her (uniting all the khalasars and being hailed as the SWMTW; going back to Meereen; meeting Tyrion, Jorah, Moqorro and other characters; maybe going to Yunkai; going to Volantis; etc) to go to King’s Landing, which led to people assuming that only Cersei and JonCon will be involved in the city’s burning. It’s even theorized that Dany might actually skip King’s Landing and go to the Wall instead. These theories make a lot of sense and aren’t implausible, but it’s hard to reconcile them with GRRM’s initial intention with Dany (though it’s also been argued that he may have given part of her initial role to Young Griff). Additionally, I don’t think timeline issues are necessarily a guarantee of what GRRM will do with Dany. He made Tyrion travel much faster than reasonable back in AGOT to have him meet Catelyn in the inn at the crossroads and to be taken captive by her. So I wouldn't put it past GRRM to do something similar with Dany by having her arrive earlier in King’s Landing than she reasonably would just because he wants it to happen. And, as much as I don’t want it to happen and even though I criticized the theory before, I don’t think it’s impossible (though it’s not guaranteed either) for Dany to be accidentally involved in the burning of King’s Landing (though there is a recent counter-theory to that as well).

Re: Cersei, a lot of people tend to assume that she’s going to die when Young Griff takes King’s Landing, but I am not really sure. I do think that her parallels with Aerys II will pay off and reflect her ending. But that doesn’t prevent Cersei from surviving Young Griff’s invasion and meeting Dany later. Cersei could escape to Casterly Rock and they could meet there. Or Cersei could later attempt to retake the capital again in another impractical plan of hers, which then leads to King’s Landing burning. I don’t know.

Does Dany have to meet everyone to fulfill these prophecies? I’m not sure. Does Dany necessarily need to meet Young Griff and Stannis to slay their lies? Does she necessarily need to meet Cersei so that the readership finds out that she’s the YMBQ? Will there even be an actual moment that makes it “obvious for the reader that Daenerys is the YMBQ”? I don’t know, Anon. It may end up being up for people’s interpretation. Dany might end up burning the Iron Throne, if the theory about her accidentally burning King’s Landing actually happens. Dany might willingly melt the Iron Throne and install a new form of government that gives the smallfolk more political influence. Both of these possibilities could symbolize the end of Cersei’s desire for absolute power, even if Cersei and Dany don’t actually meet. I’m not even sure that there will be a moment that outright reveals that Dany is AA/PTWP/SWMTW (even though, IMO, the foreshadowing is way too overwhelming for it not to be her).

Speculating about Dany being the YMBQ is fun for me because it requires delving into her characterization, her parallels with Cersei and canon material in general. On the other hand, speculating about how this would actually happen is, IMO, less interesting (though I still enjoy reading what other people have to say) because it’s hard to accurately predict future plot points with the current information that we have (and I resent how fandom already accepts so many theories as unpublished canon). Dany has too many places to be and too many things to do and it’s not certain that she’ll be in King’s Landing when it burns (though I tend to think she will for the aforementioned reasons), the second dance of dragons can refer to different confrontations, it’s not certain that Dany needs to meet Cersei (or Young Griff or Stannis) to fulfill all these prophecies and it’s not certain that Dany is going to be explicitly revealed as the person who fulfills all these prophecies. We still have two books worth of plot development, so I really don’t think it’s possible to predict how the actual events will unfold. Sorry about not being able to give more definitive answers... I actually ended up making more questions. But that's kind of the point for now.

#daenerys targaryen #young griff #cersei lannister #asoiaf meta #asoiaf speculation #answered

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keepingupwiththeboltons · 5 years ago

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Did you ever reveal what your URL is referencing? Just curious

I guess it's time for me to do some explaining, so one of the first jokes me and my sister (the other runner of this blog) had when we first started watching got together was this weird au idea of game of thrones families as shitty sitcoms *all of which are modern au (there were 3 main ones)

That stark show = a sitcom about the stark family in modern day just sorta vibing. Some examples of what some episodes of that stark show would be like in one episode the A plot would be like sansa dumps joffrey to date Margery and then the B plot would be like jon starts playing dnd. Some running jokes in that stark show were bran can blackmail like literally anyone cause he knows everything about everyone, theon has a different girlfriend every episode half the time it doesnt mention it, bran and jon look into the camera like Jim on the office and robb is overly stressed but also incredibly positive (think like Chris trager on parks and rec)

Lannister golden years = it's just the lannisters and baratheons being dysfunctional. An episode of this one could be like the A plot is cersei finds weed in joffrey's room and decides to fire her maid and move the weed just enough for joff to know she knows, then the B plot would be like Jaime getting absolutely wrecked at laser tag by brienne. Some running jokes in lannister golden years are jaime and tyrion have a podcast (some times cersei comes onto it and spills tea), at the lannister house there are 2 master bedrooms, renly still sits at the children's table durring holidays becouse fuck Robert and fuck cersei and fuck stannis and fuck selyse and shireen is chill, cersei goes through everyone's shit becouse she hates people hiding things from her and whenever Robert tries to tell his kids about his past they just straight up dont beleive him

And now time for the grand finale

Keeping up with the bolton's = you know how I said these were modern au well this one is technically still in modern day but it doesnt make sense, ok so one all the bolton's still dress like they do in the show even though it's modern day, two they still kill, torture and flay people openly even though it's modern day and three the dreadfort looks the exact same even though it's modern day. Now whenever they interact with regular people the regular people do react to how strange they are but like the bolton's themselves never acknowledge it. The characters in this one are of course roose, ramsay, walda, theon, og reek and domeric. An episode of this show would be like the A plot is ramsay is trying to hide a body, he tries numerous different places it ends at ramsay just shoving it in like the washing machine and saying fuck it and then roose sees a arm dangling out of the washing machine opens it and just says "i cant beleive ramsay didn't do the dishes." And then he just closes it with the rotting corpse still in it, then the B plot would be like domeric is litterily just going horseback riding with some friends. That's it. Some running jokes for this one would be ramsay calls og reek and theon reek 1 and reek 2, roose and walda sometimes have brunch with catelyn, lysa and littlefinger, walda and domeric act normal but they also don't react to ramsay or roose litterilly murdering people and will really casually make incredibly dark jokes, theon looks into the camera like hes on the office and usually reacts to the others insanity and it just never says what roose's job is like they are super rich but it never actually says how they get money, whenever someone asks roose what he does before he can explain he gets cut off.

Other details: all of them are supposedly in the same universe and happening at the same time (i know it doesnt make sense that reek theon and pre reek theon would exist at the same time, that's the joke), sometimes the shows will interact with eachother, Like someone would make a joke about the lannister bros podcast or ramsay would run into robb at Starbucks and they'd just glare at eachother while both of them buy the same basic bitch coffee. All of them have cold opens that make no sense. Sorry we never thought of a show for dany so she's just never mentioned. It started as pure show but now its a weird hybrid of book and show that makes little sense. There's specifically a Christmas episode of that stark show where the starks invite asha/yara over for Christmas for theon (i just didn't know where to mention that). It's very unclear how old anyone is. Robb, being a workaholic that never takes breaks, had a mental breakdown in college when he walked into a joanne's fabrics and crafts store, went over to the buttons reached out to grab a pack of brown buttons, the buttons fell to the ground and then robb just started sobbing in the middle of that joanne's fabrics and crafts store, after this he decided to take a gap year. Shireen's friend group is rickon, edric storm and daven seaworth (okay I've seen alot of people are down shireen to be friends with rickon but I haven't seen people also age down shireen's friends) and that entire group shows up in that stark show and lannister golden years. Anyways that's all that I want to write

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unerringherring · 7 years ago

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ASOIAF! (which tbh isn't the kind of fandom where me, and probably most people, think about shipping a whole lot, but im very interested in most bullet points)

Name a fandom and I’ll share tell you some things

So, I’m six weeks late with Starbucks, my bad. I started re-reading bits of the books to make sure I remembered things right and kinda sorta got sidetracked by that.Anyways, answers finally! (TWOW and onward spoilers in ROT13)

Favorite Male Character

These questions are absolute hell to answer given the sheer volume of interesting characters in these books. There’s the obvious picks with Tyrion, Jaime, Jon and etc. who I do love, but they’ve never really gotten to the point of favourite if that makes sense. Well, with the possible exception of Jaime.

I’m gonna rep one of my less popular favourites though and choose Mance. Bit of a strange choice, but he was one of the major things that got me invested in the stuff going on beyond the wall. If there’s one thing I love in these books, it’s the shades of grey, and the introduction of Mance pretty wildly shifts the perception of the wildlings as whole to be more sympathetic. After all the nastiness we saw with Craster and the diatribes of Qhorin, it was easy enough to write off the wildlings as “generic brutal tribe people #543”. Ygritte started to change that, but Mance got me really questioning how justified the Night’s Watch really were in this conflict.

Favorite Female Character

Same issues as above, there’s just so damn many well written and interesting female characters it’s hard to pick just one. Cersei and Asha (not Oaha, though I love her too) were some of the front runners here. In this case though, there is one who I’m slightly more fond of than most, and that’s Brienne.

There’s just something earnestly charming about her and the way grows throughout the books, I always knew I was in for a treat when one of her chapters came up. Remember how I said that Jaime was a possible runner for favourite? That’s pretty much solely because of his co-development with Brienne. Given the grim tone present most of the time, it’s hard not to love the unadulterated spirit of chivalry that makes up the core of her character.

Least Favorite Character

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhh Quentyn Martell I guess? I don’t remember him doing much other than get burned alive, so I’ll go with him.

Favorite Ship

Whichever one Victarion is on, that boat is bound to be a barrel of laughs.

Jokes aside, I’ve never really thought about it. I used to kinda like the idea of Dany/Jon before I realised the implications. I kinda like Jaime/Brienne (basic taste, I know). I feel like throwing in JonCon/Rhaegar, but the tragedy of that is kinda a big part of JonCon’s character. I also like the contrast in Roose/Fat Walda, but we all know that’s not ending well. Not necessarily a romantic ship, but someone I know suggested the idea of Theon and Jeyne just settling down in a cottage to recover together after everything calms down, and I kinda like the idea.

Favorite Friendship

Oof, tough one. Gonna go with Stannis and Davos. The way they bounce off each other is always a fun read, and I’ll never stop being amused at the idea these guys are BFF’s after one of them literally cut off the guys fingers.

Favorite Quote

Just one? You’re killing me Ainara. It feels like a copout given basically everything he says is gold, but I gotta give it to Tyrion:

“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armor yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.”

Worst Character Death (if any)

Funnily enough, most of the big deaths didn’t have a huge effect on me. Ned, the Red Wedding, didn’t upset me overmuch. I guess Jeor Mormont was a bit of a shock? Idk, I kinda went in expecting people to die so I’m not too sure how to answer this.

If we’re talking who had the most painful death though, I think I’ll give it to Quentyn. Surviving that long after that kind of horrific burning……. makes me uncomfortable just thinking about it.

Honourable mention to Jaime’s hand.

This made me so happy you have no idea Moment

Insert comment about Joffrey dying here.

Jokes aside, I absolutely loved when the dragons actually hatched in the first book. See, I had no idea this was a series of books at the time, given the name of the show I thought it was based on the one book. Because of that I thought Dany was legit gonna fucking die in that fire and we’d have a real tragic ending to her arc. Colour me shocked when it turned out she was alive and now had goddamn dragons.

Saddest Moment

Hasn’t technically happened yet, but I’m gonna be real sad when xvyyrq naq mbzovsvrq. Urer'f ubcvat gurer'f n jrr ovg zber rzbgvba jura vg unccraf va gur obbx.

Favorite Location

I feel like I’d be cheating by saying “Beyond the Wall”, but it’s kinda the truth. The idea of such a bleak and deadly landscape that his its own wild beauty about it? That’s my jam, 100%. It helps that a lot of the weird supernatural shit is also happening up there.

#A.A.#ask meme #F.

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maddie-grove · 7 years ago

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The Stark Romance Saga--Book #4: The Maiden of the Riverlands

Previous Installments: Loved I Not Honor More (Book #1, Robb Stark/Jeyne Westerling), The Iron Scoundrel (Book #2, Theon Greyjoy/Asha “Not His Sister in This Universe” Harlaw), Kissing the Kingslayer (Book #2.5, Catelyn Stark/Jaime Lannister), A Fire in Winter (Book #3, Jon Snow/Ygritte), and The Winter Bride (Book #3.5, Samwell Tarly/Gilly).

Note: This installment takes place roughly four years after the end of Sam’s book, which takes place about a year after the end of Jon’s book. Westeros is making progress, albeit slow, in its war against the White Walkers, and there has been a rather cool, brief spring and summer in the meantime. Queen Daenerys is on the throne, although she’s reached a Dornish compromise with the North, making it a principality. Dany’s doing a fine job on the whole, although she’s met with some difficulties, and has a reputation as a fair and kind ruler despite the whole dragon thing.

Other Note: I made Lord Londrew Frey up, because I have no idea which Frey would inherit the Twins after the foiled Red Wedding in Robb’s book. My other thought was making it Big Walder Frey; however, I have a soft spot for that little guy. He may be disturbingly casual about cousin-murder, but he has standards!

The Style

Sweet, drama-filled, and slightly off-kilter 1990s Patricia Gaffney or Susan Wiggs.

The Leads

Nymeria of High Heart (Nan for short), 20 years old, a folk heroine of the Riverlands. With her sword-fighting skills and the help of her direwolf, Sharra, she defends the poor, the weak, and the unprotected from unscrupulous outlaws and cruel lords alike. Dwells in a makeshift cottage near High Heart with only Sharra for company, living partly off the land and partly off the gifts of thankful Riverlanders. Has many friends, including the Brotherhood without Banners, but won’t get too close to anyone. Can’t remember anything before she was fourteen and found herself on the back of a wagon to Castle Black, disguised as a boy. It hurts too much to think about that time, so she’s resolved not to wonder about her past. Really, of course, ARYA STARK.

Gendry, 25 years old, a blacksmith at the inn-turned-orphanage at the crossroads and a member of the Brotherhood without Banners. Less angry than his canon counterpart due to improved circumstances, but still grumpy. An orphan from King’s Landing, he was apprenticed to a blacksmith who abruptly packed him off to join the Night’s Watch. Upset by his master’s rejection and embittered by the atrocities he witnessed in the Riverlands, he found a sense of belonging with the Brotherhood and with the kids who frequently mob him at work. Lately, though, he’s beginning to wonder if he should want more from life. Good friends with Nan, who survived the war alongside him and saved his life a couple of times.

The Prologue

Shortly after her escape from Sandor Clegane and return to the Brotherhood, an exhausted fifteen-year-old Nan wanders away from the group and has a full-fledged emotional breakdown on a riverbank over everything she’s been through. She only stops crying when a gigantic direwolf approaches her. Instead of eating her, the beast licks her tears away and demands to be petted. Feeling better than she has in a long time, Nan takes the direwolf back to the camp and informs the wary Brotherhood that this is Sharra, named after a witch queen from a song. That night, she dreams about a family in a castle surrounded by snow.

The Set-Up

The Brotherhood without Banners and the Heddle sisters get together and throw a very merry harvest party at the inn at the crossroads. Gendry only goes because he lives there, but is pleasantly surprised to see Nan dancing with an extremely drunk Thoros of Myr. She’s been making herself scarce lately and, while he won’t admit it in so many words, he’s missed her. As they banter, dance, and drink a bit of cider, he also realizes that he’s attracted to her. He resolves to mash down his feelings--she obviously views him as an overbearing older brother and couldn’t possibly be interested--until she calls all his assumptions into question by saying something like, “Yo, nice ass, Gendry.” Long story short, they end up having awesome sex. The next morning, she bids him a cheerful but glib adieu before running back to High Heart, leaving him to wonder if he irrevocably ruined their friendship.

The two don’t speak again until a week later, when Gendry visits Nan’s cottage with news of an interesting matter: Lord Londrew Frey has been cheating his smallfolk by giving them almost no share of the grain that they harvest. Londrew claims that he’s sending the grain to the Night’s Watch to help the war effort, but there’s evidence that he’s selling it overseas instead. Nan agrees to help, although she’s not sure how to do it; she can steal from the Twins and exchange the loot for food for the smallfolk, but that’s only a short-term solution.

The conversation trails off, and Gendry finally reveals the other reason he came to see her: he wants to talk about That Night and What It Means. He’s halting and awkward. They’ve been friends for a long time, he says, so of course he cares about, um, what happens to her. He knows she never...you know...and what if there’s a child, Nan? He never thought about marrying, but, well... (He doesn’t say that he’s never thought about anything beyond the next task, next meal and next catastrophe until recently, and now he’s not sure how to do it.)

Nan angrily rebuffs him. (She doesn’t say how much she cares about him, how often she thinks about that night, or how badly she longs for a real family. Even if he felt more than friendship and duty, she would lose him eventually, and she can’t stand to lose anyone else.) Stung, Gendry rants about her decision to live all alone in a pile of sticks like a crazy old woods witch. Eventually the rant becomes less “insulting” and more “seriously, are you sleeping at all?” Nan admits that she’s been dreaming more and more about the war and a strange Northern family, one of whom looks like her. In his taciturn way, Gendry expresses sympathy. They watch Sharra play among the weirwood stumps for a while, and then Nan’s face lights up.

“You know,” she says, “someone once thought I looked like a Stark girl.”

The Middle

After an obligatory “wait, WHAT” from Gendry, the two journey to Acorn Hall to get some help from Lady Smallwood, a longtime ally of the Brotherhood. They run into some heartwarming hijinks along the way, mostly brought on by the fact that Nan is beloved by every farmer, prostitute, and orphan in the Riverlands, while Gendry has one of those vibes that make little kids demand that he give them a ride on his shoulders or look at a cool rock they found. Lady Smallwood is pleased to see them and embarrasses Nan by reminiscing about when she was just a wee lass. She grows grave, though, once Nan’s dressed up as a lady in her daughter’s old clothes.

“You do have the Stark look, come to think,” she says. Nan repeats what she now tells everyone, including herself--she comes from King’s Landing and never knew her family--but her dreams are even more vivid that night.

The next day, Nan and Gendry head for the Twins, “disguised” as Arya Stark and her sworn sword. They flirt on the way, despite her determination to keep her distance and his to not renew the sentiments she found so disgusting. Once they arrive at their destination, the Frey household scoffs at Nan’s imperious claims that she is the lost Arya and, by the way, Lord Londrew better stop his peasant-cheating bullshit. Then several older Frey cousins remark that she is the very picture of Lady Lyanna Stark at the Tourney at Harrenhal, causing Lord Londrew turns courteous and welcome her to his home. (Nobody remarks on Nan’s direwolf, as she left Sharra to roam in the woods; she’ll risk her own life, but not her big pup’s.) Nan grandly agrees, even as Gendry grumbles through his teeth that they’re either planning to kill her for being the false Arya or being the real one.

They argue more after she’s shown to her chambers. He reminds her of the famous aborted Red Wedding; she reminds her that they’re both armed to the teeth and smarter than any Frey, plus she thinks they can find proof of Londrew’s dirty dealings to send to Lord Edmure Tully. Their argument “devolves” into some sexy lady/sworn sword roleplay.

Later that night, they’re both shocked when the Freys take Gendry captive (with some difficulty, of course). He has all the markings of a Robert Baratheon bastard, and Londrew thinks he can use him to cause trouble for Queen Daenerys in a Blackfyre Rebellion kind of way. Londrew locks him in a dungeon and Nan in her room. He reveals that he knows who Nan is: an outlaw who comes from nowhere and belongs to no one. He further taunts her with his intention to create false hope for the Starks and Tullys by informing them of “Arya’s” survival, and hopes out loud that they kill Nan out of anger when they learn the “truth.”

Gendry has a dark night of the soul. Spurred by his resentment at being abandoned by his father and used as a pawn by the Freys, he realizes that he isn’t helping himself or anyone else by merely existing in the Riverlands. Whether or not he ends up with Nan or does something with his discovery of his parentage, he has to take charge of his life by going to see Queen Daenerys himself...but first he has to survive this ordeal with the Freys.

Luckily, Nan has already made her escape, thanks to a combination of technical skills and the goodwill of several Freys who are downtrodden or too loyal to Roslin Frey to fuck with her husband’s family’s emotions like that. She springs Gendry from the dungeon; he helps in this endeavor by promising to put in a good word for them with the queen. Reunited, they flee into the night. Gendry tells her that he wants to marry her, whether Daenerys recognizes him as her cousin or not. Nan says she’ll marry him when he comes back; she privately believes he’ll change his mind if his status improves, but almost losing him to the Freys has taught her that refusing to care about him hurts more than letting herself love him. They make love one last time before parting ways, he for King’s Landing and she for Riverrun.

The Conclusion

Nan reaches Riverrun and begs an audience with Lord Edmure Tully, who accepts her request. As a lord who takes his obligations to his vassals seriously, he can appreciate her defense of the smallfolk despite her worrying outlaw status. Once he sees her, though, he’s bowled over by her resemblance to Brandon, Ned, Lyanna, and Benjen (plus the wolf), despite having reservations thanks to Catelyn’s harrowing experience with the false Aryas. Yet his reaction is nothing to Nan’s. Edmure’s Tully look brings back memories of Catelyn, Robb, Sansa, Bran, and Rickon. Then she remembers Ned and Jon, the only ones who looked like her. And everything else comes back when she remembers Jon: Needle, Bran’s accident, the journey to King’s Landing, her terrible final fight with Sansa, her father’s death. Edmure and Roslin take pity on the disheveled young woman sobbing in their hall, and give her a bed and some ale before gently trying to sort everything out.

Meanwhile, Gendry arrives in King’s Landing. He visits Tobho Mott, now an old man, and learns that he was sent away for his own protection at Ned Stark’s command, not outright abandoned. Then he goes to Daenerys’s throne room to wait in line with the general population, When the time comes, he publicly announces who he is and pledges his loyalty, telling her bluntly that he’d rather go ahead and get eaten by her dragons than be endlessly used as a pawn and start another war like the one he lived through.

“Okay, respect,” Daenerys says, enjoying both the anti-oppression message and the drama. She has him taken to a more private chamber and, after find out his whole deal from Varys, meets with him. She reveals that she used to want to Kill All Baratheons, but then she realized that her family’s downfall was more nuanced than she’d been led to believe, plus it didn’t take her long to love her cousins Shireen Baratheon and Mya Stone. She’s happy to find another cousin, having known very little of family, and his loyalty means a great deal to her. Seriously, he can name the region and she’ll find him a castle or at least some unclaimed land. Does he want a title? A last name?

“Um,” says Gendry, utterly overwhelmed. “Is there anything near High Heart?”

At the same time, Nan/Arya has recovered enough from her shock to be merely completely wigged out. She doesn’t know if she can handle being Arya--she can barely handle being Nan--or if her family will even want the wild, haunted outlaw she’s become. And will Gendry want her as Arya Stark? Unsure what to do, she sneaks out of Riverrun, grabs Sharra/her namesake Nymeria, and rides like hell to High Heart.

Several days later, Gendry arrives at Riverrun, which is in an utter uproar. Edmure and Roslin are frantic about having possibly lost the real Arya; Brynden Tully is trying to get everyone to calm down so the fallout won’t be too bad when they find out she’s a fake; Jaime Lannister is lounging decadently around the great hall and grousing about how well the supposed Real Arya hid herself from him; and, most important, Jon Snow and Sansa Stark are there, tense and worried.

“Wait,” says Gendry, “you’re telling me the Freys got something right for once?”

There’s another uproar when everybody realizes that this is the newly acknowledged Baratheon bastard, cousin to the queen, and that he’s been traveling alone with the Lost Arya.

(“You better be prepared to marry her,” threatens Edmure.

“Why?” Jaime asks. “She can do better.”)

Eventually, Jon and Sansa manage to speak to Gendry alone. They tell him how desperately they want Arya back, and how afraid they are that this won’t be her. Nobody’s even told Catelyn about this latest hope, because it will be too hard on her. They describe what Arya was like as a kid. Jon tells him how close they were; he’s missed her every day of his life since he went to the Wall. Sansa talks about how annoyed she used to get with Arya back then, and how stupid it all seems now; she’d give anything to see her sister’s messy hair and muddy face again. They’re both worried that, even if this is the real Arya, she won’t want to come back after so much time. But they would let her go, if that would make her happy.

With a sinking feeling, Gendry knows that the girl from their stories can’t be anyone but Nan. He also knows that a Stark lady is too highborn to marry a bastard, even an acknowledged one with royal connections. Still, he can’t keep the truth from her.

“That sounds like Nan,” he tells them. “Follow me. I’ll talk to her first.”

So they all head up to High Heart, where Nan/Arya has resumed her solitary existence. Sharra/Nymeria bounds out immediately and aggressively licks Jon and Sansa before going off to roughhouse with Ghost. Nan/Arya, though, refuses to come out of her hut; however, she reluctantly lets Gendry come inside. He tells her that she can be Nan or Arya or anyone else--she’ll be great no matter who she is, and he’ll love her. They can live in the woods or at the Inn with the orphans or in the castle the queen promised him. Or, if her family doesn’t mind, in Winterfell. Because they love her, too.

“How can they?” Arya demands. “You know what I’ve done, what I am. I was never what they wanted, and now? I’m an outlaw, and a killer, and I’m no one at all.”

At which point Sansa sweeps majestically into the hut, with Jon at her heels.

“You’re not no one,” she tells Arya. “You’re Arya Stark. My sister. And if I didn’t want you, it was because I didn’t know what it would be like to lose you.”

"And you’re a champion of the Riverlands, from what we hear,” says Jon. “Do you remember the sword I gave you?”

“Needle,” says Arya.

Soon all three siblings are crying and hugging and, when Gendry tries to absent himself, Arya pulls him into the embrace.

“This is Gendry,” she tells her siblings. “He’s coming with us to Winterfell.”

The Epilogue

Arya, Gendry, Jon, and Sansa arrive at Winterfell, Ghost and Nymeria on their heels. Arya wonders aloud if she can find a way to be a lady and still be herself. “Probably,” says Gendry, “but you don’t have to be a lady to be Arya.” The conversation turns to how he’ll adjust to his life as the queen’s acknowledged cousin, including whether he’ll give himself a last name. Arya teases him about becoming “Gendry Stark,” but he says that sounds just fine to him, and she sees his point.

Finally, they get to Winterfell, and almost everyone is there: Robb, Bran, Rickon, Theon, Old Nan, Hodor, Maester Luwin, Princess Jeyne, Ygritte, and a passel of new nieces and nephews. And, of course, Catelyn, who practically falls on her long-lost daughter. They show her the place they’ve set for her at the table all these years, and she sits down with her family.

Subplots

Twenty-two-year-old Sansa begins to feel restless after a few much-needed years of safety and stability with her family. Catelyn and Robb are both overprotective of her after her ordeal in King’s Landing, encouraging her to delay considering marriage for a few more years and getting nervous if she ventures outside the castle walls. She’s secretly fearful of the outside world herself, but she still wants to do something with her life. So she starts up a correspondence with her old friend/flirt Margaery Tyrell, who shares some highly interesting news about King’s Landing

Nineteen-year-old Bran similarly feels stifled by his well-meaning family, who tend to treat him as a child to some degree despite his physical/emotional maturity and the Very Real Psychic Shit he’s dealing with. (He and Sansa joke about it sometimes.) The arrival of Meera and Jojen Reed, two siblings around his age who know what he’s dealing with and are generally cool, make life a little easier to deal with.

After a years-long exile as Queen Daenerys’s ambassador in Pentos, Tyrion Lannister returns to King’s Landing to be Hand of the King. He has a fearsome reputation as a killer, only partially earned, and a WHOLE lot of unresolved trauma. When Petyr Baelish approaches him with a crass offer to go into the brothel business together, Tyrion begins to suspect that something more sinister is afoot. Also, he’s not sure if Sandor Clegane wants to kill him or just really likes glaring at people.

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