#so far the only other fan response I've seen on here is people reacting to ship-bait-y lines

[oliveroctavius]

I've had a day to mull it over but I still don't know what to think about the third act of MSM2. Feels like the weakest part to me from a character perspective. A lot of setups I thought I'd like and then was meh on the execution of

[chaosroid]

I've talked about this before in discord servers so I might as well share my thoughts here as well. I feel like the inclusion of polyamory in BG3 was handled sloppily. Let me preface this by saying I have no issue with poly in general. Really, it's the way it was executed in this game that confuses me. More specifically, it doesn't make sense to me how the poly companions (Shadowheart and Astarion) react to certain dialogue options you can pick and the inconsistencies in characterization that come with it.

If you suggest an open relationship with Shadowheart regarding another companion, she is completely against the idea and explicitly tells you she doesn't want to be your spare lover.

Yet, shortly into act 3, her entire stance changes when it comes to Halsin and she's suddenly cool with it. And before you say "Oh well, she knows Halsin isn't a serious romantic partner so she's not worried", that's the thing, he CAN be a serious romantic partner. And one of the things you can tell her is "He wants me, and I want him. I'm not sure there's space for you and I", ultimately treating Shadowheart like, well, essentially a spare lover, and she's not only fine with it, but encourages this. Does she just not know that your relationship with Halsin can be serious? Because otherwise it feels very ooc for her.

I feel like none of this would've been an issue if SH was just written from the start to be okay in a poly relationship with every companion, instead of this flip fop where she's not okay with it for two entire acts before suddenly being okay with it in act 3 but it's weirdly exclusive to only Halsin. It's that inconsistency that lowkey bothers me.

I have similar issues with Astarion, because some of his reactions to what you can say makes no sense either. Here you have a man who just started rediscovering his sexual boundaries, but when you tell him you want to hook up with Halsin, he'll ask if it's only because he's not putting out enough. You can prove his worry correct and apparently he's okay with this (the dev notes confirm it).

We're supposed to believe he's not hurt by what you said? 'Oh gee, I finally wanna be seen for more than a sex slave but I'm totally fine with my partner fucking someone else the second I refuse sexual intimacy because of my trauma!'. It's just so in bad taste.

You can say things that go completely against what Astarion and SH would want to hear, and they'll still be like "Yep, alright! Have fun with Halsin!". This game has some of the most mature representations of sexual trauma but will then simultaneously turn around and reduce these characters to fanservice, because the people need to have their cake and eat it too I guess.

And sure, you can make the argument that they only trust Halsin with this sort of thing. But the fact that Halsin and his romance only got added late into the game because of horny fans from EA leads me to believe that the far simpler answer is that it was just tacked on last minute without much thought given to whether or not it would actually make sense. Halsin and SH don't even like each other in act 2, she honestly has more chemistry with Karlach (a companion who can actually fantasize about threesomes in her origin btw) and was smitten with her as early as act 1. But I guess for all the folks who wanted a fully wlw poly relationship, that's just not possible because your only option is a man :)

Again, I have nothing against Astarion and SH being poly. It's their jarring responses to some of Tav's dialogue options, in which I genuinely don't believe they would be okay with hearing those things nor would they respond so flippantly.

tl;dr They would not fucking say that

[stormdragon23]

>:3

Questions 8 and 22 for Choi Jongin 🦊❤

You sure know which questions get a long response alksdjfa

8. What's something the fandom does when it comes to this character that you despise?

Quite a few things. Off the top of my head, one thing I'm not a fan of is Jongin spending money extravagantly. I haven't really seen this in fics, but it does pop up quite a lot when I hear people talking about him. I understand that he would be rich as an S-Rank, especially as the guild master of the largest guild in Korea, but I don't think he would buy the most expensive thing out there just because of its price. I do think he'll have a strong preference for high-quality items, and they may happen to be expensive, but it wouldn't be the main reason why he buys them. So hearing about him getting "the most expensive suit" or getting someone "a very expensive gift" isn't a good description of what he got and makes him appear rather shallow. I would prefer if what he got was described by the quality rather than the price tag since the most expensive doesn't always mean the best

The question only asked for one, but I like you, so you get another >:3

Another thing I don't like is anything to do with Jongin praising or speaking highly of himself. I know he's confident in what he can do, but he has never been shown to boast in canon (as far as I know). Anything he states that sounds like boasting is actually fact. Him being known as the Ultimate Hunter? True. Him having the largest guild in Korea? Also true. But he has never directly said anything like "I'm better than you" or has been condescending in any way (correct me if I'm wrong.) He may sound like he's bragging when talking about his status and such, but it is all true. In fact, he, in a way, brings himself down to other people's level and speaks to them as if they were equal, even though someone of his status has no need to do so. So every time I see people have him clearly speak down to people (anyone, even those he doesn't like), especially S-Ranks, I'm just like :/ I get insults, but I don't think Jongin is the type to say it directly to someone's face. I think it would be indirect, a hidden meaning in his words that you need to think about to understand

There are a bunch more, but they can be saved for later hehe

Gah, that was only the first question. There's still another-

22. If you're a fic reader, what's something you like in fics when it comes to this character? Something you don't like?

I haven't really read many fics with Jongin recently, but the more recent fics I've read show Jongin being able to analyze a situation quickly and react accordingly. I don't see this very often (mostly because there are already very few fics of Jongin that I can find and take the time to read), so seeing it is always very nice <3 Jongin is shown to have experience in doing this, so seeing it be incorporated in fics and expanded on makes me glad. Especially when Jongin's feelings are shown to be different from the ones he expresses to those around him

One thing I dislike is whenever Jongin loses control of his emotions, at least in front of other people. Shouting seems out of character for him as I think he would have a calming voice for the most part. I had a headcanon where Jongin can handle his emotions very well in the heat of the moment, but when the feeling starts to linger for a while, it might be visible in subtle ways, like him clenching his jaw and clutching something tighter than usual. I think Jongin is generally a stoic person who smiles to hide his true feelings, which is why I don't understand fics that show him shouting or throwing something out of anger. The only times he is shown to expressing his emotions strongly is if he knows he could die or heard about someone else almost dying. Very rarely is it out of frustration and even then, he doesn't lose it in public

I'll stop here for now because there's more questions I need to answer alksdfja

I'm very passionate about things related to Choi Jongin haha

Eh, close enough

From the ask game here

[my-mt-heart]

Ok im gonna try to bring a bit of positivity here even if it might not seem like it at first lol. U might have seen (but i think u avoid twitter right?) Carol being attacked these last few hours/days regarding Sophia/Ed. How she supposedly let Sophia being sexually abused by Ed without doing nothing. How she screamed to Shane "stop!" and cried when he beat up Ed. Meaning she was weak and ridiculous, again.

First of all i think (correct me if im wrong) that its considered canon that Ed didnt abuse (sexually, that is) Sophia... yet, because he died, but he would have had tried to had he lived because he saw her "growing up" and was a sick psycho. And Carol acted on it by having Sophia taken physically far away from her father if i recall well (dont have the exact scene in mind hence why im vague).

Second of all, this is bullshit obviously. Those people have never been abused and it shows. How its hard to leave, because you still love him and actually believe him when he says he wont hurt u again. Because he's a "great father" and "only" hit you and not ur children (its stastically rare i think but it does happen). I've worked with a lot of women beaten up by their husbands (and believe it or not, a few man with their wives too. Even husbands with husbands or wives with wives. Again, more rare but still here) and all combinations exist: women dont give a shit anymore, wont forgive, and only wants to leave and/or ptotect their children, woman who cant leave because they still see the "amazing" man he was for the first 10 years, or the first 3 years. Or says things like "he was beaten up when he was a child by his dad so its not his fault. "

ALL combinations exist, no one knows what its like to be in the head or the heart of a beaten 's wife/person, and no one should judge someone's way of coping with it, dealing with it, reacting to it. It is NEVER the victims fault, even if in the case of a beaten's wife, she stays with the husband.

Sorry, so, this disgression to say that Carol was insulted yesterday and so on for staying with Ed and not protecting Sophia.

The goods news (and here comes the positive part lol) is that for once, everyone was coming at these assholes (who, yes, happened to be Richonners, but NO, not all Richonners are this way, absolutely NOT).

And when i mean everyone, i mean even those who usually dont say shit when Carol (and therefore Melissa) is called ugly and/or too old for Daryl. Even those who dont ship caryl and/ or dont particularly like Carol are saying "ohh hell noo, too far, u re not victim blaming Carol here, absolutely not". Even the "kind of official fan accounts" followed by stars of the show.

So, while i wish she was defended more often already for the ageist and sexist part of the attacks she suffers, its still comforting to see that this time, everybody or almost see how too far they have gone and reacted accordingly.

Sorry if im clumsy in my way of writing or presenting things, english is not my native language, hope i did ok.

First of all, thank you for all you've done for survivors of domestic abuse and for sharing your insight. I heard about the incident through the grapevine and it was nice to go back and see all the support Carol was getting from all sides :)

Even though we have to be responsible for what we say on SM, I don't think it should just be left up to the fans to create a safer environment for them (and even cast and crew) to interact with each other. We should also put pressure on AMC to stop fueling the sexism, ageism, racism, etc. seen not just in one particular subset of the fanbase, but across the board. For example, how about making Carol the same size as Daryl in the key art so people can literally see her as a lead character? How about abandoning the ambiguous language around Caryl's relationship so people can understand that, yes, a middle-aged woman with gray hair can be the middle-aged male lead's love interest and vice versa? How about hiring someone who actually supports their characters and their relationship to run the official SM accounts? That's the kind of change I'd love to see.

[steeklover]

tweek for the eleven character ask

stan

kyle

kenny

cartman

butters

craig

clyde

jimmy

token

thomas

Thank you so much for the ask! ❤️❤️

Stan - Steek gives me life! Again, I'm not going to go into too much detail because I'd end up writing a whole essay which I don't have the time to do but Stan x Tweek makes me so happy. If you haven't already seen me rant about Steek (which if you follow me, you probably have) then here's two posts where you can read more about them.

Steek Ask

Steek Dynamics / Headcanons

I swear I would write a longer response for them but I really wouldn't be saying anything I haven't already said and I don't want to annoy anyone.

Kenny - I just like the idea of Imp Tweek x Angel Kenny! I think the main reason I like Twenny so much is because of the content they get. I think it's the second most popular ship for Tweek, number one being Creek of course. It gets a lot of cool artwork and interesting fanfics. Like the idea of Tweek knowing that Kenny dies is just so perfect, same thing with them both being insane together. They get cute content but they have so much potential to have angsty content and I love angst which is probably another reason I like the ship so much.

Clyde - I LOVE Twyde. Tweek and Clyde are two of my favorite characters so just like with Steek, I just have to ship them together. I'd have to think harder on the dynamic they'd have together but all I know so far is that it involves Clyde being a dumbass. I guess I can see Tweek being really sympathetic towards Clyde since he's easily upset because he's sensitive and knows what it's like when people tell him he's over-reacting. I don't know, I've seen people say that they think Twyde work because Tweek would find Clyde's constant crying annoying but if he found it annoying then he'd really just be a hypocrite lol. I really like ever Twyde fic I've ever read where they're the main focus but for the most part the ship is either a side paring or is just used as a plot device for some other ship. Plus I see a lot of Tweek cheating on Craig with Clyde and I just don't like cheating fics. They have cute fanart too and just like with Twenny and Steek can be a angsty ship and a cute ship which is exactly what I look for in a ship.

Craig - I like Creek. I used to really like it, LOVE it when I first joined the fandom but after a few months my interest for it peaked and then slowly started going down. My main problem with the ship is that I feel like it prevents people from seeing Tweek and Craig as individuals (and I know I'm not the only one who agrees). I'm a huge Tweek fan, he's my favorite, but I can barely ever find any content that's just him. Same thing with Craig, they are just the other half to someone which is boring. Plus Creek content seems to be pretty repetitive and redundant. It's not really even about the badass Craig x weak Tweek thing, although that's a large part of it. I just think that because Creek is such a popular ship that it makes it so a lot of the content created for it is the same. There's nothing wrong with reading a fic or seeing a piece of artwork and wanting to put your own spin on it, at least in my opinion. And it's kind of weird in my case because while I don't mind reading the same old Creek high school AU in different words, at the same time it is frustrating to see the same old thing. And this isn't the case with every story, I've read amazing Creek stories that aren't just slice of life stories (even though I do love those) but most of the time it's the same thing. I like some Tweek ships better than Creek because the dynamic is different and Steek, Twenny and Twyde aren't as well known or liked so it's different. Maybe I get too bored with things and I know there's people out there who will disagree with me but at the end of the day, that's what I think about Creek. It's really cute and they seem good for each other plus it's canon which is why it sits at number four for me but it's really the fandom that causes me not to like it that much.

Cartman - I actually really do like Tweek x Cartman. I used to really ship them, to the point where Cartman and Craig would have their places switched but just like with Creek, my love for the ship died down after a while, just not for the same reasons. Now I just really like the idea of them being friends. I feel like Cartman seemed to generally like Tweek, like he wasn't any meaner to him then he was to Stan, Kyle or Kenny (which says something in my mind) and they would have such a cool dynamic together. They also may have some things in common like a love for animals and singing. Plus they're both crazy! I know I wrote a whole post about how I ship them but I feel like it's just flawed now. Plus the only Cartman ships I really like are Candy, Kyman and Cutters and back then when I wrote that post I was a huge Cartman multi-shipper. I'm not like that anymore.

Kyle - Fiesty x Fiesty! I like them as friends, not so much as lovers. I can't really think of them being in a romantic relationship but I love the idea of them being best friends. I have a headcanon that Kyle does yoga for anger management which goes along with my headcanon that Tweek and Kyle do stress/anger managment stuff together. So Tweek teaches Kyle boxing and Kyle teaches Tweek yoga. I read a fic once where Tweek did yoga with Kyle which is where that headcanon came from. I also like the idea of them not putting up with anyone's shit together and I have this one idea for Creek and Style where Craig and Stan are losers and people talk shit about them which does NOT go well when Tweek and Kyle find out about it. As for lovers, I don't know I just can't see them lasting. I think maybe if they dated for a little while it'd be cute but again, I just don't seem them lasting.

Thomas - I used to ship Twomas but I don't that much anymore. They just seem to similar to each other which makes it weird for me to ship them. I really like the idea of them being friends but when it comes to Thomas, I like the idea of him being with Craig much better! There are really cute Twomas fanfics and fanarts out there though!

Butters - I used to also really like Twutters but I don't as much anymore. Again, I think it just goes to the fact that they are really similar in my mind. They just seem like they'd be better off as friends in my mind.

Token - I like Twoken. I'm writing a WIP for them that was suggested to me which has forced me to think about them some more. I feel like they could work together and be cute but it's just not my thing I guess. I like the idea of Token being kind of fascinated by Tweek since he's so erratic and kind of the opposite of him. I like introvert x extrovert ships a lot and Token seems like an introvert while Tweek seems like an extrovert. They have potential and it'd be cool if more people made content for them!

Jimmy - I just don't ship it, I think they'd be good friends but not lovers.

This ask has made me come to the conclusion that I'm not as much as a Tweek multi-shipper as I have claimed to be. I like other Tweek ships besides these, I really like Twole, Twete and Twason but Christophe, Pete and Jason weren't on the ask so I won't write anything about them.

Anyway, thank you again for the ask! Tweek is my baby so I could talk about him for hours whether it's just about him or his friendships or his relationships so I really liked answering this! Sorry it took me so long to answer though, I didn't forget about it, I've just been busy lately. Have a nice day anon! ❤️❤️

[xjoonchildx]

I haven't watched the Festa video myself yet, just been reacting to other people's responses essentially. From what I can gather thus far -- I feel... relieved?? A major reason why I don't actively "stan" any other Korean artist besides BTS is knowing how truly toxic the Korea entertainment industry can be. The horrific working conditions and lack of freedom Korean entertainers are put through. It's not something I can so easily stomach if I think about it for too long. But I couldn't NOT fall in love with these seven amazing men. Ever since I became an official fan, I've had this nagging anxiety the extent of what they might suffer through because of the specific demands that come with the industry. As I'm sure many other ARMY feel. That we've seen glimpses of here and there over the years. Members on oxygen backstage at shows. Members literally collapsing from sheer exhaustion. Members vaguely admitting suffering through eating disorders, anxiety, and depression in relation to their work. And so on.

When their tour was first cancelled I desperately had hoped the group could have taken advantage of an overdue break. To enjoy themselves for once and just live their lives freely. Of course considering the circumstances, it's understandable that didn't really happen... I'm incredibly grateful they seem to be allowed to not only admit their struggles (to an extent) but hopefully have the safe space and time to now unwind and explore their own individuality. If they want to keep performing, keep working on stuff semi separate from the group, more power to them. I just hope they really take the time to put themselves first for a change. As that's what all true ARMY want -- for them to be happy. ♡ ♡ ♡ ♡ ♡ ♡ ♡ 

i think you made some really amazing points here, friend.

the first thing i want to say is: please watch the video. i didn't get a chance to watch in full until last night and it was really eye-opening.

they were very honest (surprisingly so) about what they're going through as a group and as individuals. they really took a risk and put their feelings out there and i honestly could not love or respect them more for it.

but that doesn't mean that it wasn't hard to hear how they've been struggling.

there were times in that video where i really wanted to cry -- hearing yoongi talk about how painful it's been to write lyrics and feeling like he had nothing to say, hearing namjoon say they felt disconnected to the music and felt like they lost the mission of BTS, hearing hoseok say this is the best thing for all of them at this time because they all need space to grow as people and artists. it was hard for me, not because it disappointed me as a fan but because these are people i love and admire and i don't want them putting on masks to be what we expect of them and/or being hamsters on a wheel for us. i want to them to be happy and healthy and fulfilled in what they do.

but i understand your relief, too -- because it feels like they voiced out loud what i know many of us were feeling -- that their latest releases were well-written and fun and chart-topping but somehow missing that element that makes them BTS.

namjoon said at the end at he wants BTS to go on forever, but that in order to do that, they have to do this. and i understand him. they are not the same people they were ten years ago and i hope fans will follow them in this new journey that they are calling chapter 2.

at the end of the day, these are insanely talented people who've worked their asses off and have something new to show us and the rest of the world. i'm not going anywhere -- i'm going to support every album drop and MV release and every live show i can.

one last thing and i swear, i'm not trying to get too sappy but --

i discovered new things about myself through becoming an ARMY. i started writing fic and made amazing friends and experienced some of the most fun times with some of the coolest people i'll ever know, people from literally all around the world. if not for BTS, i would never have had these experiences and for that, i will support them now and always.

i hope we get to see new, more complex sides of them in this new music. i hope to have a whole new appreciation for what they do as they bring their individual projects out for us to see. and i hope that one day, just like they've said, we can see them back together in a cohesive unit -- with the drive and passion that brought them together in the first place.

borahae 💜

[undertale-data]

[Image Description: An Undertale chat box that has “WHY FANS LOVE UNDERTALE” at its center. Next to it are a line chart and an Egg from the Dating Hub on its left, and a CRIME measurer (also from the Dating Hub) on its right. End I.D.]

[Image Description: a pie chart titled, “LEVEL OF LOVE FOR UNDERTALE.” The textbox on the top right reads, “On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the least and 10 being the highest, how much do fans enjoy Undertale?” From the top going clockwise, 12 or 0% chose 5 and below; 23 or 1% chose 6; 98, or 4%, chose 7; 325, or 12%, chose 8; 529, or 20%, chose 9; and 1664, or 63%, chose 10. End I.D.]

It’s clear from all of the data analyzed so far that fans who took the time to answer our survey love Undertale. It is unlikely that they would have taken the time to answer so many questions if they had not, and even less likely that they would have come across our survey in the first place. Naturally, it comes as no surprise that 63% of our responders gave their love for Undertale a score of ten out of ten. 95% gave their love for Undertale a score of eight or higher, and only 12 responders responded with five or below, a number so small that their responses had to be lumped together to be visible on the pie chart. Of those, only 3 responders gave their love for Undertale a score of 1, and based on those responders’ other answers, it is likely that they were only intending to troll. We are very fortunate that the vast majority of responders took the survey seriously, enough so that responses like this are barely a blip in the data.

Now, for our final analysis post of the event, we will delve into the reasons that fans love Undertale so dearly.

(Essay and highlights under the cut.)

There have been countless essays on the impact that Undertale has had on people’s lives. I can hardly add more on the subject than what has already been said, but I hope this summary can provide a brief overview of what stood out among the over two thousand answers given in response to this survey. That said, due to the sheer volume of answers, I could not read every single one in depth—however, I did skim all of them, and some that stood out or were representative of several responses have been highlighted below. If you would like to see what every fan who consented to share their response had to say, you may view the full list of responses here. Note that these responses have not been edited in any way. This document may take a long time to load, as it is over 100 pages long.

(Warnings for mentions of suicidal thoughts in the following essay.)

Several responders loved the theme of choices mattering in Undertale. Whether people played the pacifist, merciless, or neutral routes, they enjoyed how the game reacted to their actions. For some, it even made them consider their own morality. One touching response explained the impact that the theme of mercy made on them. “I realized that Mercy isn't something that's given to those who deserve it. Flowey didn't deserve it. I don't deserve it myself. Shoot, we ALL need Mercy in our lives.” Many fans left similar comments about how the themes of Undertale made them better people.

Undertale changed how its fans treat others, and it also changed how fans treat themselves. The theme of staying determined and the messages of hope in the game were a light to a very large portion of fans. I cannot list all of the fans who said that Undertale helped them out of a dark place, or that they would not be alive if not for Undertale. “DETERMINATION became a metaphor for not killing myself at a really rough time in my life and I’ll always cherish that. Undertale isn’t afraid to go to really dark places but at the same time holds on so tight to its hope.”

Undertale brought fans together in unexpected ways. Some said they met friends or significant others through the fandom. “I wouldn't have met my now husband without Undertale,” one fan said. A different fan who is non-native English speaking mentioned that the game and the fan community helped them to learn English.

It would be impossible to discuss Undertale without mentioning the fan community. Whether for good or bad, many responders mentioned the fandom in their responses. Overall the feelings towards the fandom seem positive, though many made references to “toxic” parts of the fandom without specifying which parts they consider toxic. Others rejected the idea of toxicity in fandom. One response said: “[SLAMS FIST ON DESK] I KNOW MOST PEOPLE SAY THE FANDOM IS TOXIC AND CRINGE OR WHATEVER BUT OH MY GOD. The Undertale fandom, both the UTMV and the actual UT fandom, has been so much fun to be a part of. I've met countless friends because of our shared interest in something related to the game! The art people create can be breathtaking and so inspirational, and the fanfics are so so good!! I've seen people write incredible things for this fandom and it's what made me continue writing!”

One thing that makes the Undertale fandom unique is the way it embraces various AUs. Some fans are tired of AU content, but the majority of responses show a love for the creativity behind AUs. “Roll your eyes at the 50th AU Sans all you want, it's encouraging people to step outside the boundaries of fanart and pushing people to make their own ideas! I mean, hell, it was how I gained the confidence to start making my own original content.” The lack of a judgemental atmosphere seems present in the AU community, according to the responses we saw. There is an interesting balance between AU and canon (sometimes referred to as “classic”) content that another responder pointed out: “The fandom helped keep the game alive all these years, with all of its AUs. Although personally, I always enjoyed AUs that kept characters as close to the classic material as possible (dancetale, outertale) I do appreciate the creativity of the fandom. They almost created entirely new stories with new characters of their own! If it weren't for those people, the Undertale fandom would have probably not been as active as it is now. I do feel like we're getting a resurgence of classic content now too! (In 2021)”

Regardless of the many AUs the fandom has created over the years, the original game of Undertale still feels like home for many fans. They wished they could reclaim the feeling of playing the game again for the first time, but even though we can’t reset time in real life, there is still a special feeling for fans each time they play Undertale. One fan said, “Even the best fics I've read can't capture that feeling of nostalgia/almost-"coming home" that comes with hearing the music and talking to the characters.” This feeling is one that can be cherished time and time again. In the words of another responder: “It always feels welcoming like home or like comfort food that I never grow tired of no matter how many times I go to it.” Others pointed out the strength of the found family trope in Undertale, which likely contributes to this feeling of “home” as well.

As mentioned briefly earlier, the music is part of what makes Undertale feel like home for fans. Even when responses focused on other aspects of the game, many would throw in a comment about the soundtrack at the end. One comment focused on the music said “IT'S SO GOOD like I will literally go through the entire thing over and over and not be bored with it. It makes my monkey brain so happy you have no idea.” Like with the game itself, the music has incredible replay value, an amazing feat considering most of the tracks use the same few motifs. “I think what I like the most about Undertale is how the music attaches you to the story,” another responder said. “They're simple melodies that stick with you throughout the whole game, and they can remind you of both good and bad times.”

If the music sticks with fans in their hearts, then the game’s lore sticks with fans in their minds. Even six years after the release of Undertale, fans are still creating new theories and digging up new secrets. The way the game breaks the fourth wall in particular intrigued many fans and has stuck out through all these years. The awareness that the game shows for the RPG genre makes it memorable. The game plays with the player’s expectations and turns them on their heads, all while reminding the player that they’re in a game. There are few other games that do this on such a large scale, so it’s no surprise that fans cite this as one of their favorite things about Undertale.

Lastly, the LGBT+ representation in Undertale has been a huge draw for fans. Especially in 2015, the sheer volume of non-cishet characters was unprecedented, as one fan pointed out: “It's practically unheard of to see so MANY from just one source, especially during its heyday in 2015-16. Hell, you can't even GET the true pacifist ending without helping two gay couples hook up. It's really nice to see all of them being accepted for who they are and not judged for their sexuality or gender, at least in-canon.” The LGBT+ cast including Frisk, Chara, Napstablook, Monster Kid, Mettaton, Alphys, and Undyne each connected with fans in unique ways. It’s clear how important this is from responses such as: “There are canon nonbinary characters 🥺. i have never seen representation of myself before.” “It made me gay and trans so thanks for that.”

Once again I am overwhelmed with just how much there is to say about Undertale. One responder really understood when they compared Undertale to an iceberg, explaining that there are so many layers to the game that there is something for everyone: “everyone can find something to enjoy in the lore/game regardless of what kind of fan they are! Being able to appeal to various types of fans—from simple happy shipper people to deep dive lorediggers—is the mark of the coolest games!” I would have to agree with them.

It’s been six years, and despite everything, it’s still you. Thank you for reading, participating in this survey, and above all, staying determined.

Highlights:

DETERMINATION became a metaphor for not killing myself at a really rough time in my life and I’ll always cherish that. Undertale isn’t afraid to go to really dark places but at the same time holds on so tight to its hope.

I think the coolest thing was having the opportunity to watch the AU community grow from its bare roots. It's nearly insane how big and complex it's gotten, unlike anything I'd ever seen before. Roll your eyes at the 50th AU Sans all you want, it's encouraging people to step outside the boundaries of fanart and pushing people to make their own ideas! I mean, hell, it was how I gained the confidence to start making my own original content.

i love how the lgbt rep is so naturalized... there are just gay people! and its nobodys business!

The music is my go to answer, but what I really really REALLY love is how the minor characters have so much personality to them when you talk to them. They aren't incredibly important to the overall story, but they're all so likeable and diverse that you just can't help but like them immediately!

I think it was the first videogame I have played that broke the fourth wall that much. Of course there has been other videogames that broke it but just for one or two tongue-in-cheek jokes. The guilt of killing mama goat was also something intense as well that I appreciated as an experience and that I didn't think a videogame could cause on someone.

I love how no character can be seen as completely bad! Everyone builds up Asgore as some horrible villain, but he turns out to be a 'fuzzy pushover' who's broken and just wants his family back by the time you meet him. Then you think Flowey's an irredeemable killer who engineered the suffering of the monsters across many timelines, and he is... but he also used to be the kind and beloved Prince Asriel Dreemurr, traumatized by his death and subsequent rebirth, projecting his best friend onto you.

The fact that choices matter in the game. Your first playthrough and getting the golden ending for the first time. I can never replicate those feelings again, wish I could erase my memories and replay the game from the start.

I wouldn't have met my now husband without Undertale.

(Toxic parts of the fandom aside) The community is possibly one of the kindest I've ever met. Cringe culture is completely dead, and I feel like I can be myself. I felt a very close connection to many of the characters, and I loved consuming content about them when I was in a rough patch in my life.

just everything, the whole game has just impacted my life so much. i know it sounds really lame, but when the game first came out, i would purposely put my hands in my pockets and sway slightly, like sans' idle animation. of course i dont do that anymore haha, but undertale still really impacts me to this day, and i wouldnt have it any other way :)

it made me gay and trans so thanks for that

I realized that Mercy isn't something that's given to those who deserve it. Flowey didn't deserve it. I don't deserve it myself. Shoot, we ALL need Mercy in our lives.

The thing I love most about Undertale is no matter how many times I play or watch a playthrough it always makes me genuinely happy. It always feels welcoming like home or like comfort food that I never grow tired of no matter how many times I go to it. Toriel still makes me feel all warm and cozy in her home, the Skelebros always make me laugh, and I still cry on the inside watching Frisk comforting Asriel. And on the flip side the No Mercy run still invokes the negative emotions in me as well. In short Undertale just feels like a second home to me and I always wish I could stay.

The reader inserts are my favorite way to decompress after a hard day

I think Undertale helped me discover my love for 8-bit games, and made me realize how IMPORTANT music is in video games.

the worldbuilding and character design are my favorite parts of the main game apart from the music! I’m also a huge fan of the random AU music- not for like underswap or underfell i like the stuff where someone makes a megalovania for a random au where gru from despicable me replaces sans as the character. i think its funny

Just... the vibe, honestly? Even the best fics I've read can't capture that feeling of nostalgia/almost-"coming home" that comes with hearing the music and talking to the characters.

there are canon nonbinary characters 🥺. i have never seen representation of myself before.

[SLAMS FIST ON DESK] I KNOW MOST PEOPLE SAY THE FANDOM IS TOXIC AND CRINGE OR WHATEVER BUT OH MY GOD. The Undertale fandom, both the UTMV and the actual UT fandom, has been so much fun to be a part of. I've met countless friends because of our shared interest in something related to the game! The art people create can be breathtaking and so inspirational, and the fanfics are so so good!! I've seen people write incredible things for this fandom and it's what made me continue writing!

There's a scene where Frisk (the player) is going towards what is presumably going to be their death. They will fight Asgore and he will use their human soul to break the barrier and free his people. The music, despite the player's impending doom, is... triumphant. You are not the triumphant one here, and yet, the score invites you to experience the monsters' joy and happiness as they tell you the tale of their subjugation. The monsters are going to be free. This is their victory, but they don't hate you or want you to die. They're just... happy. That scene has always struck me very deeply. I feel it represents the best parts of Undertale.

I loved how well thought out the Geno route was. It really made me feel like I was doing something horrible, and the characters were very obviously reacting to dire circumstances.

I dunno? I like Undertale for it's characters, story, music, secrets and many more. I am not good with Headcanons but I also like the neutral endings and how different they can depending on who you spare and kill

I was very bad at english before, i thought i couldn't progress because i was very shy and not confident. But my sibling and i wanted to have the best experience with this game so we wanted to play it in english. It's this game and the fandom which helped me to make huge progress in english !

THE SOUNDTRACK. IT'S SO GOOD like I will literally go through the entire thing over and over and not be bored with it. It makes my monkey brain so happy you have no idea.

to avoid writing an essay i will say one word. Mettaton

It is like Toby specifically made the games to fit the iceberg meme and it's awesome, everyone can find something to enjoy in the lore/game regardless of what kind of fan they are! Being able to appeal to various types of fans - from simple happy shipper people to deep dive lorediggers is the mark of the coolest games!

I love almost everything about Undertale as a game on its own. The music, the art and especially the characters and how they interact. They made me feel at home. Undertale means a huge amount to me. (I even got a tattoo of the castle when you and MK walk together!) The fandom helped keep the game alive all these years, with all of its AUs. Although personally, I always enjoyed AUs that kept characters as close to the classic material as possible (dancetale, outertale) I do appreciate the creativity of the fandom. They almost created entirely new stories with new characters of their own! If it weren't for those people, the Undertake fandom would have probably not been as active as it is now. I do feel like we're getting a resurgence of classic content now too! (In 2021)

the mystery. toby fox refused to give answers to anything and i think thats very sexy of him.

I just feel guilty for liking it so much when I'm in my 30's. But I recently got diagnosed with ASD, so I guess it explains things a bit. Many ppl consider Papyrus to be neurodivergent, and some adult fans are too, so seeing that makes me feel a bit better.

i think about "Despite everything, it's still you" everyday of my life.

I like how it's just as funny as it can be serious. All routes are this way. I laughed as much as I cried when I played the Pacifist route and then once I opened the game again and Flowey was telling me to let them be happy, I immediately turned off the game. I somehow felt bad.

The Found Family Trope

The True Pacifist Ending is just...man. And the fanworks about saving everyone even when the game doesn't let you? MANNNNNN

I think what I like the most about Undertale is how the music attaches you to the story. They're simple melodies that stick with you throughout the whole game, and they can remind you of both good and bad times.

there's honestly a LOT to love about this game, but i think one of my favorite things about it is just how many lgbt+ characters there are??? i can think of alphys, undyne, frisk, chara, mettaton, napstablook, monster kid, asgore, mad mew mew, the dress lion, the royal guards, and arguably even papyrus off of the top of my head, but im sure i'm forgetting a few from just undertale alone (there's even MORE in deltarune)!! it's practically unheard of to see so MANY from just one source, especially during its heyday in 2015-16. hell, you can't even GET the true pacifist ending without helping two gay couples hook up. it's really nice to see all of them being accepted for who they are and not judged for their sexuality or gender, at least in-canon.

[Image description: A wordcloud in the shape of the capitalized word UNDERTALE. The text is white on a black background, and uses the font found in the game. Some of the most visible words are: Game, Love, Music, Life, AU, Store, Friend, and Feel, which represent the most common words in the essays people wrote about their love for the game. End of ID]

[ramblings-of-a-mad-cat]

I've never met ANYONE who actually likes the Chibnall era. Would you seriously say that it's objectively good?

Brace yourself for unpopular (albeit positive) opinions.

Objectively? I don't know, I tend to feel like media is very much subjective and down to opinion. But on the whole...yeah. I'm gonna say yeah. I think the Chibnall era thus far is every bit as good as the Moffat Era and Davies Era were. It actually blows my mind to see the fandom come together and almost universally agree that the show has gone downhill. It's part of the reason why I kind of stepped away from the Doctor Who fandom because there's something very demoralizing about re-watching clips from Season 12 and seeing literally every comment just talk about how the show is ruined. And if I re-watch old clips, very often I come across comments that talk about how the show "used to" be good, and should have ended with Twelve, etc. I know a little reluctance toward the new Doctor can be part of the transition process, but normally the fans are over it by now.

Things haven't really changed.

I've been re-watching Twelve's era, and found a new appreciation for him. But I re-watched Thirteen's era right beforehand, and you know what? It holds up. Season 11 is remarkably strong. I can't think of a single "bad" episode in that season. It focuses on the characters, and thus it doesn't have nearly as strong ambitions, compared to one of the Moffat seasons, which were clever but often convoluted. They couldn't always stick the landing. (Looking at you, Season 6) But every has it's good parts and it's bad. The same man who wrote The Wedding of River Song and betrayed the entire season's storyline in the process...also wrote The Doctor Falls, which is probably my favorite final episode of any season ever. The Chibnall Era is the same way. The Tsuranga Conundrum isn't really a bad episode, it's just kind of forgettable, apart from the Pting. But then it is immediately followed up by Demons of the Punjab, which is an exceptional story in every way. I want the Thijurians to return for Thirteen's regeneration, I'm saying it.

My point being that even if there are episodes you can't stand in the new era, is that really exclusive to Chibnall? All the way back in Season 1, they had The Long Game, which I remember disliking, but it was sandwiched between Dalek and Father's Day, which are in my opinion, the two best episodes of that season. A lot of people don't like Orphan 55, for example. But it's followed up by Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror. Does anyone really dislike that episode? You're valid if you do, but I think it's really good. Ask me about any episode in the Chibnall Era, and I'll find something to like about it. (Except maybe Arachnids in the UK...and that one's not even bad, just kind of weak.) Because like I said, there is good and bad in every season...and I do think that the fandom has overblown how "bad" the Chibnall Era is...though that may be in part because I think this era is generally good? Incredible companions, solid episodes, a great Doctor, and hey...this era actually made the Daleks scary again. That is impressive. Even most of the hated episodes, like Orphan 55 as I mentioned...I enjoy them.

I stand by that. I think this era is great. If anything, I don't like that they reduced how many episodes we get, because some of these stories, like The Witchfinders and It Takes You Away especially Fugitive of The Judoon, are just begging to be two-parters. Spyfall is the only real two-parter we've had, in my opinion (Ascension of the Cybermen and The Timeless Children feel like two separate stories to me) and the episode was much stronger for having the extra time. If I have one genuine criticism with the Chibnall Era as a whole, it is the stark contrast between Seasons 11 and 12. I love Season 11, I thought it was beautiful. I like it far more than most people. I also truly enjoyed Season 12. But they are worlds apart, with Season 11 feeling so standalone and Season 12 picking up with a big storyline that really hadn't been hinted at all in the previous outing. The tone is also different, with The Doctor and "the fam" having a distance between them that seems to have developed offscreen in between seasons. It was as though Chibnall wanted to give everyone a breather from big overarching plots after the Moffat Era, but then after one season he decided "break's over" because he wanted to tell his story. And that's okay! It is. But it's jarring. Anyway, let's talk about Chibnall's storyline. You know where this is going.

"That" episode.

I meant what I said before. There isn't a single episode that I actively hate as much as say, Listen. Now let's get very controversial, because I know what y'all are thinking. "Not even The Timeless Children?" And I'll just get this out of the way right now: I don't think The Timeless Children, or it's twist, ruins Doctor Who. I don't think it gets anywhere close. I mentioned before that I was demoralized reading the comments on a clip of Doctor Who...to no one's surprise, it was this episode. Now, I may just be biased...after all, I didn't even hate Hell Bent. But while I have my criticisms of Season 12, The Doctor's revised backstory accounts for exactly none of them. You want to know what really bothers me? That we had a seven season buildup to Gallifrey's rescue, a nine season buildup to it's return...only for the show to do nothing with it, and then just destroy it again a couple of seasons later. As someone who loved The Day of The Doctor, I'm mad about that. Among other reasons, destroying Gallifrey is the kind of card you can really only play once.

So no, I don't think The Timeless Children is perfect. The Doctor had a seven season character arc culminating in them learning the lesson that using The Moment would be wrong, and that it was never okay to do something like that. To hear her even consider using The Death Particle, that "Or, a solution" line in response to Ryan appropriately reacting in horror? Yeah, that upset me. I don't like that Gallifrey is gone again, and even if The Doctor wasn't the one to do it, she almost did, and she left someone else to do it in her stead. That bothers me more than The Timeless Child ever could. That being said...the Timeless Child doesn't bother me. Seriously, it blows my mind that people act like this twist ruins Doctor Who. It...really doesn't, guys.

It does not insult the legacy of William Hartnell. He is still The First Doctor. It's not like there isn't a precedent for secret incarnations from The Doctor's past. We didn't start calling Christopher Eccleston The Tenth Doctor after we found out about John Hurt. Nothing can change The First Doctor's status or take it away, nor do I think Chibnall is trying. He is doing what I've actually wanted Doctor Who to do for a while. Give us a story about The Doctor's childhood. (Listen doesn't count, I don't care, that was all kinds of bad.) Let me ask you, what does this really change? I've seen people complain about the revision of The Doctor's history...but there's a precedent for that too. We could play bingo with how many times Clara fundamentally altered or influenced the show's history. She is the reason he started traveling, the reason he chose his Tardis, and the reason he saved Gallifrey. Why doesn't that bother people, if this does?

I also understand it if people dislike this change because they feel as though it makes The Doctor a kind of chosen one, compared to them having just been an average person who wanted to make a difference. I get that. However, this is down to interpretation, and there are so many ways to interpret The Doctor. Some people love it when The Doctor goes dark, other people cannot stand it and view it as out of character. Some people love it when The Doctor is heroic and badass, when they save the day...others would prefer that they take the backseat, teaching the humans how to save the day themselves. "The man who makes people better." And which interpretation you get, where it falls on the spectrum...it will vary from writer to writer. Moffat loved to make everything about The Doctor, and Davies frequently compared him to an angel or a god. This is not the first time that the show has portrayed The Doctor as a godlike being. It's not even close to the first time. And honestly? I don't think this makes The Doctor special or supernatural. I think it makes them a victim, nothing more. A victim of child abuse.

People also disliked this episode for removing the mystery behind The Doctor...but I fail to see how it did that? There are so. Many. Questions. That this finale opens up. Where did The Doctor come from? How and why did they get to our universe? What exactly is The Division? What went down between them and The Doctor? Where is Tecteun? (No, she's not Rassilon...) As the Masters asks, "What did they do to you, Doctor? How many lives have you had?" Amid all of the comments that made me sad, I did see a great one about how the original creator of Doctor Who actually didn't like it when they introduced the Timelords, because she felt that it boxed the show in and removed the mystery behind The Doctor, and how "She would have loved this episode." I agree with that. (Still salty that they destroyed Gallifrey though...) You know, I am genuinely interested in this story and where it's going to go, especially with the sixtieth anniversary approaching. But it depresses me that they might scale it back now, after how much the fandom has risen up against it. Not that I'm saying the fans shouldn't be happy, but...it's clear that a story is trying to be told here, and I think it should have that chance.

To each their own, of course. But I will never understand why this era is so hated.

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

Hi. I appreciate the response and the post recs, but I think we got our wires crossed somewhere. When I said I'm a fan of Byler, I meant it. I've read everything. I'm not skeptical or doubting. The conversation I wanted to have was more about how the Duffers can ensure a more favorable reaction from the wider fandom when Byler becomes canon. And the (understandable but still frustrating) choices they made, that make the situation stickier than it needs to be. 🐺

"I admire the Duffer brothers but I've seen even well intentioned creators go astray in the past. I was just hoping to have a conversation about what the pitfalls are and what I think the Duffers need to do to avoid them. I also posted the way I did because you don't have submissions turned on and I didn't want you to wonder which asks were mine. But your reply gave me the impression you thought I sent too many asks and the wolf emojis were stupid. I didn't mean to annoy you. Sorry. 🐺"

Ah, well, I apologize for the misunderstanding. I actually enjoyed the wolf emojis (I love dogs, and wolves are close enough), and I appreciated the Asks. I was just making a little joke about getting such a large Ask on the first day of my long weekend. No worries. I still chose to answer it then instead of waiting, so that's not on you.

I don't really see the Duffers falling into any major pitfalls. From the start, they've been very serious about creating the show they wanted in order to tell the story they wanted to tell. Major networks offered them contracts, but only with concessions, such as either making it a show about Hopper without the kids at all. The Duffers refused those offers, only accepting Netflix when the streaming service didn't try to change the project. That really says a lot about how serious they are about this. Creative control was more important to them than the financial benefits a major network could offer.

Now, of course, this doesn't make them immune to pitfalls. I'm sure there's been some pressure from above to make changes here and there, but we really have no way of knowing what (if anything) they've been nudged to do and if they gave into that pressure. I know there's fans out there who have talked about how Mileven was highly marketed and that's why it was big in season 3. If season 3 was the result of some sort of executive meddling, then the Duffers got away with something since that relationship came across very badly.

I trust the Duffers to keep to their original vision because I have no reason to believe otherwise. Yes, content creators are often pushed to compromise on their work, but, as far as I can tell, these guys have set out to resist such efforts from the start. I choose to give them the benefit of the doubt.

As for the wider fandom, I think you may be overestimating how large the portion who would reject Byler would be. It's true that there is a very loud and noticeable Mileven fanbase on social media, but that can't be used to generalize to the overall fanbase. Remember, those of us who post about Stranger Things are a small minority. Most fans don't go on social media about a show, especially during its offseason.

Aside from the hardcore Mileven fans, I think the overall reaction to canon Byler would be fine. There's sure to be the usual homophobic backlash, but that really can't be helped. For the more evolved fans, it will all come down to how well the Duffers develop the relationship before revealing it. Some fans are still sure to be confused if they never picked up on the previous hints. Others may finally have an "aha" moment along the way and be waiting for the inevitable reveal with the rest of us. In the end, though, fan reaction doesn't really matter too much.

The Duffers aren't looking to have an extended run type of show. They only decided on a fifth season when they realized four wouldn't be enough. They've said they always knew how and when they wanted to end the show, but they just didn't know how long it would take to get it all done. Since it has a decided endpoint, they don't need to worry about fan backlash, which would be the main reason to give in to pressure. They don't have to worry about losing fans for the future when the future will only be one more season. Plus, it's good PR these days to have a positive depiction of LGBT characters.

At the end of the day, fans will react the way they choose to react. The Duffers can only do so much to nudge fans in a direction when a few of them have already made up their minds. I do think the general fan reaction will be just fine, though. I feel like every positive depiction of LGBT characters, particularly when they're kids/teens, results in the expected "loud minority" yelling about values, but the actual result is that more and more people are perfectly ok with it.

Ignore the noise, enjoy the satisfaction.

[gothriotgrrl]

Can we just for a second talk about how amazing of a character Hiei from Yu Yu Hakusho is? Especially since his character has not only been misinterpreted a lot over the years, but been reduced to wank fodder for yaoi fan girls.

When I say he's been misinterpreted, one of the most common things I hear about him, as a character, is how much people love his journey from the hiding in the shadows, wears all black, kidnaps the hero's girlfriend, cartoon villain to an emotionally secure, empathetic person. But here's the thing about Hiei; he was always that emotionally secure, empathetic person. He doesn't have a character journey, he has a character reveal. And just like the protagonist at the beginning of the show, viewers/readers wrote him off.

A lot of people I know who weren't familiar with the story before they watched/read it, or the fact that Hiei would eventually become part of the main group, either never expected to see him in the show again, or thought he would be the main, "big bad". Which is one of the greatest bits of storytelling I've ever seen because, he's been written off by everyone in his life. It's such a common occurrence for him that even the viewers/readers, who weren't already familiar with the story, did it.

And this constant writing off/misinterpreting becomes a theme with his character. When we see him again, he's appears to be either cynical and harsh, or completely apathetic. He rolls his eyes at heroic proclamations, he appears cruel to his enemies, and at any given time, you expect him to betray everyone, and throw their trust of him in their face.

But as the story continues, you realize he was never cynical or apathetic; he's had a hard life, and his experiences have made him a realist. He's not being harsh for the sake of hurting people, he's being that way for the sake of trying to keep them from being hurt; he doesn't want a sugar coat things because people might not take it as seriously. He's not apathetic, he just keeps a cool head and is guarded during dangerous situations. And as far as the cruelty is concerned, it's usually, either in response to other's cruelty, or because he was abandoned/betrayed. (He only attacks, and kidnaps, Keiko after Kurama abandons their plan, and he's left alone to deal with Yusuke. Something that is made clear he views as a betrayal from someone he trusted.)

In fact, as the story continues, it's revealed that he has a very strict code of NOT being pointlessly cruel, and abusing people who are weaker than him. This is especially telling because he's telepathic. He can both read, and control the minds of individuals weaker than him. While he does the latter when we first meet him, once again after he's been abandoned/betrayed and is a little desperate, he doesn't hurt any of the people he controls. And we never see him do it again.

This makes sense when we learn about his past. While it is the kind of past that would be considered "tragic", (his mother was forced to pretend to kill/abandon him as a baby because he was a fire demon born to an ice demon, and viewed as dangerous, he was raised by a group of bandits in the woods, he has a twin sister he never got to know, and he has undergone torturous magical surgeries to make himself stronger), it's not really presented as tragic, nor is there any proof that he views it as tragic. Most of the characters don't come from great circumstances, and while his might be the worst of all of them, he reacts to his past trauma in a very realistic way; he tries to become powerful enough so that other people, and their decisions, can no longer have power over his life. He doesn't try to rule the world, or destroy it for hurting him, he just doesn't want to be on the bottom rung anymore. And since he's so familiar with being on the bottom rung, he's incredibly empathetic. It's why he doesn't use his powers to abuse those who are weaker, he knows what it's like to be in that situation. And while he doesn't like the idea of being weak himself, or aligning himself with weak people, he makes it clear that he understands that his society has power imbalances, and a big part of the reason he's on the lower rungs is because of the people on the higher rungs abusing their power. Because of this, he doesn't lash out pointlessly, at the people on his level or below.

And then there's the fact that he's probably the gayest character I've ever seen in any story. And when I say that I don't mean he's gay because of some kind of villain-based queer coding, I mean he is so obviously not sexually or romantically interested in the females around him, and is only interested in the males. And once again the way he reacts is realistic. He's a teenage guy who either gets blushy and awkward around the people he's attracted to (Yusuke) or is familiar enough with them that he openly flirts with them (Kurama). In other words, he acts like a romantically awkward teenage guy; which is exactly what he is. And it's never hidden or written off by the other characters, Hiei is gay, simple as that. And when he does blush or get awkward around the other guys, none of them get offended.

In fact, there are no negative stereotypes attached to his homosexuality, and homoromanticism. He is not written with any gay stereotypes that are inherently homophobic, toxically masculine, or misogynistic. I'm almost certain Hiei being a gay character is supposed to be a "f*ck you" to the common queer coding of the 90s. Especially since many of the characters who fall into those stereotypes in the story are shown to be either straight or bisexual. He is just a black clothes wearing, bluntly realistic, secretly empathetic, awkward, gay teenager. He's animes original goth. Let's all show some respect and love for him.

[whetstonefires]

Hi Whetstonefire. I have a question about the comic where Nightwing cheats on Starfire with Barbara: What happens directly after that? Does Starfire find out that Nightwing cheated on her? And, if so, how does she react? I've read online that (according to Marv Wolfman) Starfire is the opposite of everything Batman taught Nightwing to be and that Batman taught Nightwing to be repressed and cold. What did Nightwing contribute (emotionally) to the relationship between him and Starfire? (Cont.)

(Cont.) From what I can tell, from online, Nightwing was adamant about standards of mercy and monogamy - how do you think, if Starfire were to be written as her own character and not written around Nightwing and his emotional needs, she would handle and react to that? (This bit is an FYI for other readers: this is just speculation, not hate. Sorry about that.) Sorry about the questions! Have a nice day! 

Okay there are so many separate questions packed in here! I may miss some of them lol and I do not want to put in the hours it would take to produce an orderly response to all this, so this post is going to be a mess.

Initial query and important point: the cheating story was out of continuity. Like, literally, not just by ‘being rejected by the fanbase,’ it was just this weird retcon oneshot that seems to have been some sort of fuck-you to Nightwing or his fans or something. So no, it had no in-setting fallout lol. It, in more ways than most comics, didn't exactly happen.

It was just this weird thing where Dick hooks up with Babs before giving her a wedding invitation, which is both out of character for him in general and out of step with where he was leading up to the wedding--he was desperate to get married so they could have some Normal Stable Adulthood Happiness; the choice to recharacterize him as a fuckboy who regards it as a loss of freedom isn’t congruent, on much more than the level of principle.

As far as how Kori would feel about it, if she had learned...that is very hard to say. Apart from how it would require her to reinterpret everything about where their relationship stood at that point, the data is very unclear, and I don’t even have all of it. Gonna back up to cover some of the rest of the ask, get some context here.

So this actually brings up two of my biggest gripes with Wolfman’s NTT--weird Kori characterization and the weirdly negative interpretation of Batman as parent that backwashed heavily into other titles and influenced the character for the worse, in ways we're very much still dealing with today. 😩

The latter is pretty self-explanatory, though Wolfman’s take that the main thing Bruce taught Dick was repression does shed light on some writing choices and make others funnier. But Kori. Oh my lands.

So, item one, I wouldn't say that Kori is overall opposite Bruce, or even of his philosophy? There are just some very major points of opposition. She isn’t emotionally buttoned-down like at all, especially about positive feelings, although considered realistically with all the bullshit they’ve piled into her backstory she absolutely leans on repression to cope and stay positive, which makes her a lot like Dick actually.

To an extent, she was clearly written around foiling Dick’s Batman-derived traits in the same way that Robin was written to foil Batman, bright and glad and aerial. A Flamebird to his Nightwing in theme if not in name.

You could do some interesting stuff with that, and the bildungsroman aspects of this period of Dick’s life, like he has two roads forward in terms of how he’s going to define ‘adulthood’--does it necessarily require becoming more like his mentor-father, for good and ill, or can he make Kori in part a destination, as it were, and create an adult self that is derived from who he has always been as well as the man he’s modeled himself after?

To an extent I think this even was one of the things going on in ntt but like. Only a little bit.

(Given how much like Bruce Babs is in most of the ways Kori isn’t, especially once she’s Oracle, you could make a case for her as love interest being like. Symbolic of his not being in a rebellious phase? That gets weird and oedipal really fast tho lol.)

Okay stepping down one meta level lol, the thing about answering the 'what would kori' question here is that her character is deeply bound up in her culture, about which we are told and shown a great many contradictory things. Any attempt to read her as an independent character has to tackle not only the gender stuff you allude to and these inconsistencies, but how much of the sheer mess of her is rooted in racism.

'Fantastic' racism, technically, because Tamaraneans aren't real, but the 'taming the savage' narrative that kept surfacing between them and the language used in reference to it is just. The existing racism of presumably the writers, placed in Dick's mouth, and it's super gross. I hate it so much.

(I had a faint hope when they cast her for live action it was with a deliberate intent to directly tackle and better that history, but lollllllll nah. At least they didn’t double down in it tho! Can you imagine, with a black actress, in this day and age....)

So to predict and comprehend Kori, you have to make a lot of calls about Tamaran as a civilization. I like to slightly privilege stuff established earlier if there's no good reason not to, so while much is made over time of her inappropriate rage and the violence she was raised to normalize, I think what she says in her first appearance is good to keep in mind: in her culture, kindness is for friends and cruelty is for enemies. She doesn't understand why the Titans seem to have this backwards.

Kori is not a merciless person. She’s very empathetic, as a rule. With people she loves, she is self-destructively forgiving. That's not a trait only Dick benefits from--her family keeps betraying her in new exciting ways, and she keeps letting them.

Her arc of growing away from that habit is however greatly crippled by centering Dick in the narrative and by the awful 'civilizing' overtones that keep coming into it. When she comes back after the 1986 breakup, still married to Karras, she brings with her a commitment to doing things the Earth way--to eschew lethal force as more than a compromise with her friends’ values, but as a deliberate choice.

This deserved a lot more space and time than it got, and the fact that it didn’t get it is only somewhat due to her being subordinated to Dick and to general writing fail; a lot of it’s just the team book problems of everything happening to everybody all at once.

I mean, Dick’s journey later on to deciding he loves her enough to date her even though she’s married and it’s technically against his principles was packed into this absolutely heinous issue where he was inspired by a woman refusing to separate from her husband who’d just threatened to kill her and their kid with a knife, until being stopped by Nightwing. Because he’s apologizing for what he did.

This is his inspiration for accepting Kori’s marital status! It’s supposed to be heartwarming, as far as I can tell! Not heavyhanded messaging that this is a self-destructive terrible choice in which Kori will inevitably harm him somehow! This issue is pro ‘consensual open relationships under certain circumstances’ and also ‘giving abusers another chance’ as expressions of love. Welcome to the 80s ig.

(Notable is that the wife in this issue was black and the husband and son both looked very white, so it’s probably her stepkid and she probably wouldn’t get to keep him if they separated; this is not even vaguely treated as a factor.)

Point is, everyone was getting too little space to actually go through the amount of development they were getting, and it was clumsily handled; it’s not just her.

In an overlapping period Gar processed his issues with his adoptive father with whom he constantly fought and their shared trauma over the rest of their family (the Doom Patrol) having died violently not long ago via a batshit several-issue storyline where Mento went crazy, created supermutants, and abusively mind-controlled them to attack the Titans. It is literally all like this.

Back to the infidelity thing, now. So much to unpack. So like I mentioned above, their first big breakup, while partially driven by Dick’s existing conflicted feelings about their different ideas about things like ‘killing in battle’ and ‘her identity and loyalties being tied up with her home planet,’ is explicitly over different takes on monogamy.

When Dick is breaking up with her, Kori makes it clear she thinks it’s totally reasonable to have both a husband and a love, since Karras also has someone he loves and they’re both fine with it, but the story doesn't really explain how nonmonogamy works on Tamaran, or even if it's practiced outside the context of political marriage. They do do a sort of...soulbond fusion dance...thing, as part of the ceremony, so marriage is definitely serious business. There are so many levels of cultural difference that get poor to no development.

But to return to the weird ooc retcon cheating story: because of this context, no matter what her personal norms are, Dick specifically casually sleeping with someone else would be something for Kori to be mad about, because of the hypocrisy.

Then there’s the Mirage Incident, which I haven’t read through properly and which was very poorly handled by the writers. Kori is upset about Dick having slept with someone impersonating her and there’s a general vibe of this being treated by Dick’s social circle as unfaithfulness even though he was in fact sexually violated by deceit; it famously sucks.

We still don’t learn a lot here about Kori’s ideas about monogamy, from what I have seen, because her focus is mostly on feeling like Dick doesn’t care about her enough or in the right way since he couldn’t tell the difference. Which is an understandable feeling, even if it’s not an appropriate reaction to have at him at this time.

What Nightwing contributed emotionally........hm. This is a mess, honestly; he was all over the map, and not just because of having Brother Blood in his head. I cannot speak definitively on this, it’s too inconsistent.

For most of their relationship, Kori was the more intensely invested one, the one to initiate and the one who was shown at length to be excited to come home at the end of the day to their shared apartment because her boyfriend was there to see and talk to. If we set aside his more egregious white male bullshit, Dick was pretty emotionally available most of the time, though? They were cute.

Since they split up a lot of ink has been spilled making him less into her in retrospect, but he was pretty invested--leaving her coincided with mental breakdowns both times, and it wasn’t even mostly because she was doing his emotional processing for him, because she wasn’t, although it’s fair to say he often fell into using the relationship as an emotional crutch. Kori was definitely doing the same thing though so...it wasn’t the most balanced relationship in fiction history, but apart from slight codependency and the racism, it was decent enough.

She gets more evenhanded development than most superhero love interests, honestly, because she was costarring in a team book. She had her own storylines. She had other friends.

Mostly both of them just needed some space to finish growing up and stop being retraumatized long enough to process some of the existing trauma better, and I think they could have gone on being good for each other for a long time.

[iacon-stargazer]

THE POSITIVE & NEGATIVE: MUN & MUSE

fill out & repost ♥ this meme definitely favors canons more, but i hope oc’s still can make it somehow work with their own lore, and lil’ fandom of friends & mutuals. multimuses pick the muse you are the most invested in atm.

tagged by: stolen from @oneshallfall like.... months ago. im a slow gremlin hjksd. it's been in my drafts and i finally decided to finish the last few sections while working on clearing them out

tagging: steal it

MY MUSE IS.   canon / oc / au / canon-divergent / fandomless

is your character popular in the fandom?  YES / NO.

is your character considered hot™ in the fandom?  Well.../ NO / IDK. (i know optimus is but i don’t really... know about orion? i have seen a handful of fanartists who turn him into a very sexualized moe baby but i’m not sure about the fandom at large)

is your character considered strong in the fandom?  YES / NO / IDK.

are they underrated?  YES / NO. (lmao there’s like no fan content with him unless it’s with megatronus) 

were they relevant to the main story?  YES / NO.

were they relevant to the main character?  YES / NO / THEY’RE THE PROTAG.

are they widely known in their world?  YES / NO. (not yet.... lol)

how’s their reputation?  GOOD / BAD / NEUTRAL.

HOW STRICTLY DO YOU FOLLOW CANON?

This... this is a trick question in this goddamn mess of a continuity. That said, I try my absolute best to make my portrayal coherent with the TFP show... even if said show contradicts itself at times. I take inspiration from the earlier parts (the thirteen primes section) of the Covenant of Primus for his origin backstory, but ignore the rest of the Covenant since it makes absolutely no sense with his characterization in... literally anything else. I’ve peeked at Exodus and it utterly sucks, but I’ve picked up bits and pieces of concepts that originated there just from spending time in the fandom. Aside from that... I spend a ton of time thinking about how to weave everything together in a way that both makes sense and makes for a character development arc.

SELL YOUR MUSE! (aka try to list everything, which makes your muse interesting in your opinion to make them spicy for your mutuals.)

Orion is genuinely kind, thoughtful, and introspective, very loving of the world around him.

He’s also a more complex character than is initially obvious - despite mostly being good sweet pure baby nerd he’s still flawed, with many of those flaws being his strengths put into the wrong situation. His strong morals can lead to dogmatism, and he’s only slightly less likely to deliver lectures than Optimus. His determination to be kind and help everyone can come off as unintentionally patronizing at times; he has a very “well-intentioned semi-privileged middle class” perspective that he’s not always self-aware of. However, he’s also willing to look at himself critically and learn/adapt. 

Essentially, he has many of the same traits as Optimus... just more or less apparent and/or developed. He's less confident than he eventually becomes through his future experience with leadership, wanting to change the world for the better but sometimes struggling to ground his plans in reality—something that continues to apply, but with reduced intensity and frequency over time. Idealistic cinnamon roll will eventually develop some realism, though never really quite enough. His selflessness remains a strength for now, but we know that eventually it will dip into martyristic tendencies.

NOW THE OPPOSITE! (list everything why your muse could not be so interesting (even if you may not agree, what does the fandom perhaps think?)

He could be potentially ‘boring’ in some senses. he’s the polite, considerate ‘next door’ type, who has for most of his life has just lived as a very average middle caste nobody. He’s more laid-back than he eventually becomes as optimus, but where others might get into trouble and shenanigans he’s most likely to just express concern. And since I try to keep him at least mostly ic, even with non-serious posts, this can derail ‘fun’ stuff and I fear dissuade some interaction.

While I try my best to give him realistic flaws that work with his character, he could still be seen as a little too good. very kind, understanding, forgiving, patient, considerate... almost endlessly so. A lot of my “he’s so good and pure” interpretation comes from using his having been the thirteenth prime as backstory, where he was pretty much the epitome of that, but some might not like the “he was a literal deity in a past life” idea for its “super special chosen one protagonist” elements.

His responsiveness to his environment can also be a downside. He’s not the type to start things; he just reacts and responds, standing his ground and finding himself when things get crazy around him. without megatronus, he may have eventually attempted political campaigning, but it wouldn’t have gotten very far. He needs to have more intense characters or events around him for major plots to really go places. Without those nothing would ever happen besides slice of life fluff, because he’s content with that kind of life.

WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO RP YOUR MUSE?  

Honestly I just wanted to write op/ratch fhsjkdjsdh. But I also wanted to be able to interact with a variety of muses and so I chose Orion over Optimus because he’s not so emotionally closed off, which I figured would give more flexibility beyond the handful of characters op would reasonably have close personal and/or plot-important relationships with. Also, I can relate to him on a thought-process level which lets me get into his head easily, which additionally made him an appealing choice for my first real rp muse.

WHAT KEEPS YOUR INSPIRATION GOING?  

I just love him so much, especially with the layers of his character I've built up around him. I don't always have inspiration to write or rp, but I think about him a lot. When I do find motivation to write, it's generally out of wanting to continue to work on developing him and just having a chance to express his characterization.

SOME MORE PERSONAL QUESTIONS FOR THE MUN.

do you think you give your character justice?  YES / NO.

do you frequently write headcanons?  YES / NO.

do you sometimes write drabbles? YES / NO.  (i should do it more...)

do you think a lot about your muse during the day? YES / NO.

are you confident in your portrayal?   YES / NO. (at least most days fhsdhfskj)

are you confident in your writing?  YES / NO. (it waxes and wanes. I know I'm a good writer but I could still be better...)

are you a sensitive person?  YES / NO.

DO YOU ACCEPT CRITICISM WELL ABOUT YOUR PORTRAYAL?

I’ll be honest; I’ve never gotten criticism. I haven’t been here very long in comparison to some and I’ve never been that popular, so I figure I’m pretty easy to just ignore. I guess how I would feel about it would depend on what it was and how it was delivered, though I like to think I would be reasonable regardless

DO YOU LIKE QUESTIONS, WHICH HELP YOU EXPLORE YOUR CHARACTER?  

yes? yes absolutely?

IF SOMEONE DISAGREES TO A HEADCANON OF YOURS, DO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY?  

I would be curious to hear their reasoning, but I think enough about how everything fits together that chances are I would agree to disagree

IF SOMEONE DISAGREES WITH YOUR PORTRAYAL, HOW WOULD YOU TAKE IT?

Depends on if their disagreement makes sense. Maybe I’ll give back my own reasoning for why I characterize the way I do. Maybe I’ll just agree to disagree, if their view is just totally different from mine. If they have valid points I’ll probably overthink it and spiral into self doubt. In all cases I’ll spill my thoughts to friends on discord.

IF SOMEONE REALLY HATES YOUR CHARACTER, HOW DO YOU TAKE IT?

......Orion in general or? ... fhsjkdhf...... Well if it was mine specifically that might hurt lol. But at the same time.... I doubt i’d agree with their takes either so... fair enough.

ARE YOU OKAY WITH PEOPLE POINTING OUT YOUR GRAMMATICAL ERRORS?  

Sure. I’m good at grammar so if something glaring is there it’s probably a typo I missed and I’ll be grateful for the chance to edit it out before more people see it lol

DO YOU THINK YOU ARE EASY GOING AS A MUN?  

Yeah. I’m pretty quiet most of the time because I just don’t have energy to talk to a lot of people, and I never want to get caught in drama. I honestly wouldn’t know what to do in a situation like that. I tend to avoid conflict, I’m quick to apologize, and polite with anyone I don’t know very well.

[ariddletobesolved]

Days We Spend Under the Sun (Chapter Two)

Written for @helsa-summer-event

Fandom: Frozen

Genre: Romance, Family, Fluff, Whump

Rating: T

Summary: Summer is not her favourite season, but a certain Admiral from the neighbouring kingdom is going to change that.

Perhaps we should call this a collection of Helsa fluff drabbles. External links (including some links to the prologue and chapter one) are in the notes. Enjoy!

Prompt 2: Blue Skies and Dandelion Fuzz

—

Chapter Two

One of the best things about the forest is the serenity it offers, this pretty much she knew.

Standing near the river bank, Elsa had been staring at her own reflection for a while. It was still early in the morning when she sneaked out of Hans's warm embrace and out of her own hut in the village. Not that she didn't want to stay and cuddle—despite the fact that the weather was rather hot, but she would like some space for her to think, and the river bank being one of her favourite places in the Enchanted Forest could offer that.

Her mind began to wander to the event that happened the day before. Hans was indeed full of surprises when it came to wooing her, she was aware of that fact. But the trick he pulled, when he broke into a gallop instead of stopping to let her summon the Nokk, was one she didn't see coming. Nonetheless, she still found the journey quite enjoyable. Even during a few stops did she not try to summon the Nokk. The way he held her close to his chest was something she found comfort in. Eventually, they arrived in the forest when the sun went down, and Yelena was the first one to greet them, accompanied by Honeymaren. After having dinner, they stopped by the stable-like area in the village to give Sitron an extra bag of carrots. Tired from the long journey, they finally turned in and Elsa, of course, had to share her hut with Hans. 

Sighing in contentment, Elsa began to stretch her muscles. It had been quite some time since the last time she was back in the forest, she almost forgot how different the place was from Arendelle. It was really quiet in the morning. There was no sound of people trading or arguing, no sound of hooves clicking against the pavement, nothing but the serenity of nature. She smiled, still looking at her own reflection, before a familiar set of eyes stared back at her. The Nokk.

The water spirit rose from the river, standing tall before her in the form of a majestic horse. Elsa looked up with one hand reaching out to gently caress the spirit. Affectionately nuzzling its face close to hers, it was as if the Nokk tried to tell her that it missed her. Elsa let out a chuckle, for she was amused by the spirit.

"I've missed you too, Nokk." She said. "Sorry about yesterday, but Hans had another plan. At least we're here now."

The horse walked around above the river, and Elsa tilted her head in confusion.

"Are you complaining, now?" She raised her eyebrow. But before she could react, she saw a flash of fire. It danced from stone to stone, before stopping beside her feet. Bending down, Elsa smiled. "Hello, little guy!"

The fire died down, and a blue salamander crawled upon her open palm. Elsa conjured a small rain of snowflakes to the creature's amusement, as it poked its tongue out to catch some fallen snowflakes.

"You like it, huh?"

Blinking and tilting its head, Bruni, the fire spirit, stared at her with something like glee. It was obvious that the fire spirit was glad to have her back. The blonde grinned, finding the gesture adorable. Looking up, she saw the Nokk staring at her intensely.

"What?"

The water horse motioned at the path towards the village.

"You want to see Hans?" She inquired. At the mention of the former prince, Bruni smiled wider. "Why, so you can try to drown him again?"

If Nokk could laugh, it would certainly roll onto its belly, Elsa was sure of that. The unspoken tension between the two brought back a memory of their first meeting. It happened shortly after Hans was released from a three hour long questioning, in which the decision sparked a brief tension between her and her sister. Anna, being the wise queen she was, decided that she found nothing harmful with his presence back in Arendelle. Hans was there to deliver an invitation under the Crown Prince of the Southern Isles' order. Elsa, refusing to accept it, mounted on the Nokk and rode across the ocean towards where his ship was in the harbour. They had a quarrel which resulted in him slipped on Elsa's ice and fell into the water. The Nokk, that was offended by Hans' accidental name calling 'water horse' did try to drown him, leaving Elsa standing on her ice.

"He is not the same man, you know." She sighed, making her way towards the majestic horse. Bruni crawled up and rested on her shoulder. "He has grown to be a better person, don't you worry about it."

Elsa smiled at that thought. It wasn't easy to get where she was, but time had given them a chance. Then, faintly, she heard some footsteps walking closer. She turned, only to see Ryder walking with a smaller reindeer.

"Morning, Elsa."

She smiled. "Ryder! I didn't see you last night. How are you holding up?"

The young man returned the smile, half shrugging sheepishly. "Well, I'm fine, I guess? I've been taking care of the reindeers." He nudged the reindeer standing beside him, who nudged back. "This one is John."

"Oh," Elsa tried to bite back a laugh, "that's quite a name for a reindeer."

"I know." Ryder brushed it off as if it was nothing, certainly not aware of Elsa's amused face. "Oh, and one more thing, Hans is looking for you."

"Sure." Elsa turned to the Nokk, who was tilting its head. "I'll be there shortly."

"Great! I'll head off to the meado now." He said. "Also, the breakfast is ready, so you better go back soon."

Nodding, she looked back. "Sure. I'll see you later, Ryder."

"See you later, Elsa." With that, he took off with the reindeer.

Once again, she was left alone with the spirits. "You're coming, Nokk?" Instead of answering, the Nokk turned around and dived into the water. "So, it's just us." Elsa turned to the excited salamander, that was now crawling onto the top of her head. "Fine, it seems like you really are excited to see Hans."

She made her way towards a familiar path that led her back to the village. Taking a deep breath, she let the clean morning breeze fill her system. She looked up to the blue sky and sighed. Nothing topped a nice breezy summer morning. It was rather warm in the forest, since summer had arrived up north, but she liked it. Unlike Anna, Elsa wasn't a huge fan of summer. She couldn't really stand the heat, and would take every opportunity to take shelter under the shade. The reason why she agreed to Hans' suggestion to ditch the carriage—other than to spend more private time together on the journey—was because of her ability to conjure some clouds above them should the weather be too sunny.

The sound of children playing around and people starting the day got louder as Elsa walked closer to the village. From afar, she spotted a familiar auburn haired Admiral sitting on the ground with two bowls of steaming food beside him. He looked far too engrossed in a conversation with a brunette sitting before him, he didn't see her coming.

Elsa saw this as an opportunity to surprise him, but before she could do such a thing, Bruni already beat her to it. The salamander hopped from her head and landed safely on the ground, before it crawled towards the Admiral. Upon the tiny element of surprise, Hans almost jumped on his seat. Bruni settled on his shoulder, causing him to turn and saw Elsa standing nearby.

"Elsa." He looked a little taken aback, before flashing her a smile. "Have you been there for a while?"

"No." Taking a seat next to him, Elsa pecked his lips shortly. "I have just arrived." She then turned to the brunette. "Morning, Maren."

"Good morning, Elsa." Honeymaren smiled. "Did you see Ryder?"

"Yes, I did." Elsa nodded, taking a bowl Hans offered her. "Thank you, Hans." Turning back to her distant cousin, she continued, "So, what were you two talking about? You both seemed engrossed."

Honeymared glanced at Hans, before replying, "Nothing that would interest you, really. Hans was asking about the crops, yeah."

Hans smiled. He didn't say anything, instead, he gave her hand a gentle squeeze. But something told Elsa that it wasn't exactly their main topic of discussion.

"Okay."

"Where were you?" Hans asked. "I woke up this morning and you were nowhere to be seen."

"I was at the river bank, talking to Nokk, before Bruni came." She smiled at the beaming salamander. "They missed you."

Hans playfully rolled his eyes. "Yeah, as if the water horse misses me. I wouldn't be surprised if the little guy here did, or maybe Gale, since it greeted me earlier before deciding to play with those kids." He gestured at the wind spirit swirling around two giggling children.

Elsa grinned in response. "What did I tell you? Nokk doesn't like it."

"What will the Nokk do anyway, try to drown me?" He raised a brow, before shrugging. "Anyway, you should finish your breakfast. Are you going to visit Ahtohallan later today?"

She shook her head no. "I'll go to Ahtohallan tomorrow."

"Great! Because I have a plan for the two of us later." Hans beamed, briefly glancing at Honeymaren, who shrugged slightly.

Elsa narrowed her eyes. "What is it?"

"That, Kaere, is for me to know," Hans poked the tip of her nose, "and for you to find out."

"Fine."

Elsa beamed. Excitement surged through her, as her mind began to think of a few possibilities. She might look as if she wasn't expecting much, but deep inside, anticipation was building up. She looked forward to whatever adventure he had in store for her.

[mellometal]

I know I said I don't associate myself with the Panic! fandom anymore, but this is something I have been ACHING to talk about. This is some bad timing, since it was Brent Wilson's birthday recently (yes, his birthday is July 20th, NOT August 20th; source: I've been following him on Twitter for five years and he's actually said this), but this is going to be about Brent and the whole situation with him.

Warning: What I'm about to say about the situation with Brent Wilson (original bassist) is heavily biased, since I do stan him. YEAH. I STAN BRENT MATTHEW WILSON, THE ORIGINAL BASSIST OF PANIC! AT THE DISCO. CRY ABOUT IT. STAY MAD. He's one of the ONLY members of Panic! At The Disco (past and present) who I give a fuck about, besides Ryan Ross, Spencer Smith, and Ian Crawford.

Trigger warning: This will be talking about arrest, jail, drugs (doing and selling), weapons (guns), childbirth, parenthood, and some other things. If these things are triggering for you or make you uncomfortable in any way, you do not have to read this post. Consume media that sparks joy for you.

Disclaimer: I don't know Brent in real life, I'm not in his circle of friends or people he's closest to (like his wife Taylor, his parents, his brother Blake, his in-laws, his irl friends, coworkers, etc.), and this is not me acting like I do. I don't know what his life is like outside of Twitter. The only contact I've ever had with him has been on Twitter, but it was pretty limited.

My thoughts on this situation are MY opinion, any possibilities in my thoughts are just theories and not proven to be true, and I'm not trying to excuse whatever he was allegedly charged with.

Just for the record, I am willing to have a civil conversation with anyone who hates Brent. The minute you attack me or anyone else who likes Brent, or a whole bunch of you start circle jerking about how much you hate him, you're getting blocked. If all you're going to bring up is the shit Brent did when he was in his late teens instead of adding anything useful to the discussion, you're getting blocked too. I already know about that. It happened back in 2004-2006. They were all still kids, to a point. Brent has changed quite a bit since then. The whole "Hate on Brent Wilson" bandwagon is stupid, toxic, and I refuse to jump on it. I've never jumped on it when I was in the Panic! fandom, so why would I do it now?

Remember, without Brent bringing Br3nd0n Ur!3 into Panic!, your precious Br3nd0n wouldn't be successful today. JUST SO YA KNOW. (I'm very salty right now, if you can't already tell.)

If you would like to know about what happened with Brent, a few months ago, he was arrested on (alleged) drug charges and illegal possession of a weapon, along with a traffic violation and something to do with a probation violation too. He was set to go to court back in March for his sentencing, but that's the most recent information I've found. I don't know what the fuck is going on at this point. I don't know if he's been sentenced, if he's doing anything alternative like rehabilitation, nothing. (The reason why I said they're alleged charges is because I don't know if he's even been to court for sentencing or anything like that.)

People's reactions were mixed. Some actually LAUGHED and made a whole bunch of jokes about him being arrested (that's fucking insensitive and cruel). Some felt bad for Brent because he just became a dad (yes, he's a dad, but I'm not posting any pictures of the kid out of respect for Brent and Taylor). Some were shocked. Some weren't surprised (how and why????).

My reaction? It was pretty mixed. I was shocked. I thought I was having a fever dream and what I was seeing was fake at first. When I realized it wasn't fake, I was crushed. I felt absolutely horrible for Brent, Taylor, their kid, and all their loved ones. Like, I care about the guy a lot. Obviously.

Ironically, the band members and/or group members I stan are either the black sheep or they're just not as popular. Or they're the fucking scapegoat almost EVERYONE attacks for the stupidest shit. Brent's the black sheep as well as the scapegoat of Panic!, for example....and I would say that Ian is another black sheep too. Not for any negative reasons. He's simply not as popular, due to the fact he was only in Panic! during the Vices era for a short time. He's underrated as FUCK. I'm one of the black sheep in a lot of places [except for friend groups], even in my own family, so it explains why I stan Brent still.

I just want to say that selling drugs and doing drugs aren't inherently bad things to do. This doesn't mean that I'm for kids doing drugs and selling them. Absolutely not. I want people who do drugs or sell drugs to be treated like human beings. I also want them to be able to seek help easier without the judgment or being treated like a criminal. Personally, I don't do any of that, but I understand why someone would. (This kind of thing hits home for me.)

As far as the whole weapon thing is concerned (it was a gun), I personally don't like them and we need better gun control in the United States. I don't think I'd trust anyone who owns a gun because of the possibility that they would hurt me or worse in an argument or something. I've seen my abuser threaten to pull a gun out on my dad when I was a kid. Thankfully it wasn't loaded, but still. It was scary. I wouldn't own a gun because I'm autistic, mentally ill, and I'm afraid of what I might do in certain situations. If someone wants to own a gun for protection, hunting, target practice, or to collect them, fine. BUT YOU DON'T NEED A HUGE ASS GUN THAT THE MILITARY USES TO GO HUNTING OR FOR TARGET PRACTICE. I don't like them, I don't want one, I don't trust myself with one, guns scare me, and I want better gun control in the United States. It terrifies me that people openly carry. I understand that's the Second Amendment and all, but it doesn't change the fact that it terrifies me. As long as you're responsible with that kind of thing, I don't really care.

I don't know what Brent's reason was for (allegedly) owning a weapon (maybe for protection or something?), but it's none of my business.

In my opinion, this is all stupid shit. There are people who have done horrible things and they're STILL free people, but oh, god forbid you do or sell drugs! THAT'S bad. /s

Here's my response below. I'll type out everything, except for the disclaimers and what he was arrested for. I will start from the fifth paragraph on the first screenshot and continue from there. This is so anyone who has a hard time reading any of the screenshots can read them easier.

(My response was from around the time it was announced that he was arrested. Just so you know.)

First screenshot, fifth paragraph:

First off, I just want to say that this situation is a fucked up one for anyone to be in. I would never wish this on anyone. Especially because now, there's a baby involved, so this makes the situation worse. This is pretty difficult for me to put into words without coming off as bitchy or anything like that, so if I get bitchy here, I apologize.

Second screenshot, fifth paragraph:

I don't know what caused this mess to begin with, but I do know that Brent and his wife Taylor just had a baby a couple months ago (when I was typing this out initially). While it's a good thing for them, it can be assumed that this is also a very stressful time for them.

Combination of third and fourth screenshots (These are pretty much only theories; not facts, and they will be broken up into paragraphs): 

The pandemic most likely isn’t helping their case. Las Vegas is a HUGE city and I’m sure A LOT of people there are REALLY struggling right now in all aspects. Maybe Brent and Taylor are struggling to pay off hospital bills or whatever (to put this into perspective, the average cost for hospital childbirth in Nevada is around $21,239, according to CBS News). The average salary for an accountant in Nevada is anywhere from $34k to $150k, and that all depends on education, experience (how long you’ve been in said career), certifications, and any additional skills. Take into account any other necessities they have to pay for, like their mortgage, bills, insurance, etc. 

Let’s say that they did manage to pay everything else off, but they’re struggling to pay the hospital bills from when they had their baby. (Having a baby is fucking expensive in the United States, regardless of whether there are complications or not, and regardless of whether you have insurance or not.) Let’s say they’ve tried every single option out there, but nothing seems to give still. Maybe the drug selling was a last resort on Brent’s part. (As I’ve said, I don’t know the full story.)

The whole subject of drug paraphernalia hits home for me. My parents both did drugs when I was a kid. I’ve seen it a lot growing up. My dad was, in the past, in and out of jail for drugs and other things that aren’t relevant here. I’m not sure if my mom was in and out of jail for the same shit, but I know for a fact my dad was. Y’know, because he told me. ANYWAYS. 

I get it. You gotta do what you gotta do. It’s not something I’d do personally, but I understand why somebody would do it. I wouldn’t treat them any differently. Maybe they’re selling drugs or whatever to keep themselves from losing their homes, put food on the table for their families, help pay their bills, pay for their education, whatever. It could be a number of things.

Fifth screenshot (people’s reactions to the news and my thoughts on them):

Now...let’s move on to how people are reacting to the news. There’s a lot of mixed reactions. A lot of people feel bad for Brent, especially since he and Taylor just had a baby a couple months ago (as I was typing this). Some people “aren’t surprised” because they were never fans of him in the first place. Others think this is amusing. I’ve seen some people who are solely involved in celebrity news (similar to TMZ) making jokes about the situation, which to me, is appalling.

Let me tell you something. It doesn’t matter if you’re a fan of Brent or not. This shit isn’t funny or cute in the slightest. It sure isn’t funny or cute to anyone who is being affected by the situation, which includes Brent himself, Taylor, their son, and all their loved ones. Like, full stop. Have some decency. Y’all are fucking gross. You can dislike Brent all you want, but he’s a real human being who fucked up. Personally, when I first heard the news, I couldn’t believe it at first. I thought I was having a fever dream. That is, until I looked it up and actually found that it was true. I was CRUSHED. Why? Because Brent is one of the last people I’d even expect to get into this whole mess. 

Sixth screenshot (my thoughts):

If I’m being honest here...like, BRUTALLY honest, Brent needs to be put in REHAB, not jail. For anyone who has been here (on my Instagram) from when I used to dedicate this account to vintage Panic!, you know how I’ve never said anything but kind things about Brent. From the few times I’ve interacted with him a little bit on Twitter and from how I’ve seen him interact with others on the site, Brent is one of the sweetest people ever. I’m being genuine here. He’s a good guy who fucked up and did some dumb shit. Does that make him bad? No. Then again, as far as I’ve read about the current situation at hand, it’s too early to really determine anything. None of us know what caused him to have drug paraphernalia or anything else that he was arrested for in the first place.

Seventh screenshot (wrap-up):

I’m gonna wrap this up here. My heart aches for Brent, Taylor, their son, and all their loved ones. I hope that everything gets straightened out, all sides of the story come out, and that Brent can get his shit together again. Like he had been doing since he was kicked out of Panic!. I wish everyone involved nothing but the absolute best right now, given how fucked up the whole situation is. (Just to clear up any confusion, when I was referring to Taylor, I’m NOT referring to Taylor Swift or any other celebrity with the name Taylor. I’m referring to Brent’s wife.) 

If you’ve read this far, thank you! If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I’ll try to answer as best as I can.

Have my thoughts on the situation changed since February - March of this year? No.

I think that Brent needs some kind of help. That's why I mentioned rehab. It's obvious to me that's the kind of help he needs. I don't believe jail is helpful in certain circumstances (like drug charges, traffic violations, and other nonviolent crimes)....at least in the United States. They treat people who do drugs and/or sell drugs like they're subhuman. Yet there are people who have committed violent, deplorable, horrific crimes, and they're still free people. Funny how that works. I'm not too educated about how the jail system works in other countries, so I can't exactly tell you how I feel about that system on an international standpoint.

Brent should be with his wife and child. I hope the guy gets his shit together again. I believe Brent WILL get his shit together. Genuinely. I would never wish anything bad on him.

I don't crucify Brent like a lot of people in the Panic! fandom do. The only reason I would hypothetically do so is if Brent actually committed violent, deplorable, horrific crimes (i.e., chomo bullshit, trafficking...like, extreme shit) that would warrant him being locked up and I'd drop him completely at that point. OBVIOUSLY I DON'T SEE HIM DOING ANYTHING LIKE THAT. EVER. THAT'S JUST HYPOTHETICAL.

Anyways....have a good day, y'all.

[sometimesrufus]

Hi, fan of Rufus and your blog (also a rper) I was wondering if I could get your thoughts on something? I've been rewatching Rufus moments in the remake and I noticed that only Rufus is reacting to the whispers, Tseng doesnt reaction and looks confused when Rufus asked what this is? to him. I was wondering if I'm the only one who noticed or I'm just dumb and its obvious. XD So basically I was wondering if you thought the same and how you feel on idea of Rufus seeing the Whispers. (To the mun)

((Hi!! Thank you~ This rp thing has been a wild ride, but I’m enjoying it immensely. Also sorry it’s taken me so long to respond to this! It’s because I have been thinking. Answer below the cut because it got long.))

I’m glad you ask this question. Mostly because it’s one of the bigger mysteries of Remake for me, but I do have theories. This might be a little all over the place... I’ll try to be coherent.

This was one of those moments that I didn’t really appreciate until my 2nd play-through of the game. So much happens at the end there that, the first time, my brain was spinning too hard with the implications to really wrap my head around it. On a side note: I also haven’t seen much discourse around these scenes?? So let’s talk.

While I like the theory that Rufus is half-Cetra, I doubt it.

The theory I think is most probable is that this has to do with Avalanche, and Rufus’s relationship to them.

As you said, Rufus sees the Whispers, but Tseng doesn’t. The game very deliberately shows Rufus tracking the Whispers, and then Tseng’s POV, which is void of them. This is Suspicious, and suggests that, whatever is going on, Rufus is the key here. We already know that the Whispers only show up when something is about to Change. Depending on the circumstance, the Whispers either help or hinder. In this case though... they appear to be doing neither. Rufus can see them, but they aren’t obviously aiding or hindering him.

As far as I can see it, there are only two reasons for the Whispers to surround the Shinra building:

1) So nothing can get out.

2) So nothing can get in.

We know that things are NOT going down at Shinra the way they did in the OG. That’s clear well before Rufus shows up. But he doesn’t see the Whispers before entering the exec suite. Why then? Short answer: We don’t know. My thoughts? It’s something to do with Avalanche. I’m just not sure what? My best guess actually has to do with Avalanche HQ.

Wedge showing up with HQ not in the original game.

Wedge says, and I quote, “They’re raising hell to try and flush out the president.”

This strongly implies that Rufus mobilized HQ and was there, not in response to Barret’s group, but just to kill his dad with the help of the terrorist group he helped off the ground.

President Shinra does die, but not like he’s supposed to. If the events of BC are in play, HQ really shouldn’t be a thing at all. Anything Rufus orders here could quickly put them into Non-Canon territory.

So what if the Whispers are actually surrounding Shinra not to keep people out, but to keep the members of HQ in? After all, Reno and Rude are nowhere to be seen at the end of the game after Rufus takes over. What if they’re ‘cleaning up’ HQ. And the Whispers are there, helping them by preventing any of them from leaving. Additionally, Rufus is very distracted by them. They make a point of showing that he doesn’t move from the window he was watching them from until long after they disappear, perhaps ensuring he doesn’t mess anything else up.

Now we’re closer to the OG. President dead, Rufus in charge, Barret & Tifa really the only members of Avalanche remaining (or are they XD).

Or maybe it has nothing to do with any of that and it’s just a warning that Rufus isn’t going to be the character we think he is. His fate is changing too.

In the end, this is all kind of wild speculation, especially because the Whispers are gone and anything can happen. But I’d LOVE to hear other thoughts! Wildly speculate with me. This is such a good mystery.

[buddha-in-disguise]

You are not a fan!

I've decided to post as more and more hate is popping in recent weeks. This hate has emerged from a certain area of fandom towards others. This post is directly to all Sanvers fans.

For those who are doing this (& please before anyone says we can’t be sure it is Sanvers fans, I know in this instance this is repeated pattern that is identical to past behaviour, it might not be every instance but I know quite a lot is. The patterns cannot be dismissed).

So I am directing this to those who know who is behind this (because some of you will know).

I’m also directing it to other Sanvers fans - not because you might have done anything wrong, but to a) be aware this is supposedly happening in your name & b) to please ensure if you see or know of anyone who might be involved, call them out if you don’t already, c) I see hashtags supporting the fandom all over the place for all kinds of events. Use that hashtag to call these people out with the same passion, so others see it, because right now we don’t. Hashtag into other fandoms as well if you can.

Alternatively do what many others do regardless of which ship they support, go into the timelines (of cast & fans) to show you are appalled by this behaviour. I know not all fans of every ship do this, but I see it far more often with other ships than I have ever done with Sanvers fans. That cross fandom support goes a hell of a long way. Don’t drag in old previous arguments you might’ve witnessed or been involved in, because that helps no-one. Yes it’s happened in the past, but this is about the here and now. Step up regardless to show you are there. But even if you can’t do that with fans, rather than continually going into cast or crew or the network timelines and repeating that you want Sanvers back, show support against bullying or support to the actress. Believe it or not, you can still show support towards an actress against hate, and give your message about wanting your own ship still in the same tweet!

If you say it’s too hard mentally to face doing that - ask someone you know who can. You cannot tell me in all those out of your fandom who might not be able to face it, there aren’t those who are in a position to do it for you. Be proactive.

For those Sanvers fans who are behind this; you had a character and ship that I fully understand was something you not only got attached to, but validated who you are as a person. Whose journey might’ve represented your own. Who might’ve given you strength to come out, or be more open to those around you.

Emotional attachment in itself is okay and no-one should invalidate that or tell you to move on, even if the ship or characters have changed and the show has moved on.

What isn’t okay is when the attachment causes such anger, such bitterness, you use it against other fans, cast members or anyone else for that matter.

To all fans, regardless of Fandom: No-one else deserves to bear the brunt of how you react or feel, no-one. That is your responsibility. Own it. If you can’t own it, then you need serious medical help or therapy, because this is not normal. Also don’t use your mental health as an excuse. All too often it is used as why you feel like you do, but then take no remedial steps to at least try to help yourself.

I’ve been there with mental health. I’m 53 - my first full blown panic attack was when I had just turned 12. I still remember it so clearly, and it wasn’t until I was 26 before someone said to me what it was. It took another full decade to get it under some semblance of control. That didn’t mean I wasn’t seeking professional help and medication - I was - but far less was recognised about it then. I say this because even though I’ve pretty much conquered it via a number of different ways - ultimately I am the one who has to take that first healing step forward. I recognise it is a hellish place to be at times. I have full empathy for all who suffer. But don’t use it as an excuse. It actually doesn’t help the mental health stigmas.

You also cannot continue to have others demand they support canon lesbian representation, when by the same token you’re tearing down other canon lesbian representation. Stay. In. Your. Lane. I’ve repeated this so much, and yes that goes both ways - if any fans from other fandoms feel a need to go in on Sanvers fans - don’t! I also keep saying representation comes in far greater areas than you might see or recognise. Don’t demean what someone else sees, even if you can’t. You might feel it’s shit representation, others might see it as being great representation. We all view things from different perspectives. Don’t place your bias on others.

Now, this issue on sending this all via anon. It really isn’t as anon as you might think it is. Legally there could be serious implications for your actions. In real life and online, your actions have possible consequences beyond a tweet being deleted or sent behind a troll alt account, or anonymously. Being anonymous isn’t actually as anonymous as you might think. This also goes beyond just death threats (or wishing physical harm on someone), if you continue to attack or misrepresent someone online. One prime example is insisting some of us have multiple alt accounts and use them to troll the fandom. I saw this happening recently, when a user who had *nothing* to do with a fan account was accused of running it. When they (& the person on the account) said otherwise, it made no difference. That could in some instances be seen as defamation. It might also be seen as libel (as it’s written, whereas slander is verbal). Would it ever come to that? I don’t know, but it can’t be discounted as a possibility.

If you’re that convinced they have all these accounts, or all this influence, when others are saying otherwise & you refuse to believe them, that is now paranoia. Again, that is not normal or rational behaviour.

In the meantime, here is a screenshot of the latest death threat. It is heavily edited as the person who recieved it wanted to delete off her timeline. I will add this isn’t the first threat of it's kind against fans. I’ve faced it, so have friends of ours. We’ve faced threats of physical violence as well. Some from known accounts before it all started to slide towards anonymous ones. So yes, as I’ve said, this is a pattern of behaviour.

I will say lastly - I know not all Sanvers fans are like this. I know there are those who are as appalled and upset. Please use your voice to stand up to this in all areas, not just in the enclosed space of your fandom.